I think I got Scammed! :(

Hey guys, need some advice/help.

I sold my extra 6x Chelsea FC tickets on Gumtree.

The buyer made payment to me via bank deposit.

Now apparently it seems that it was a cheque deposit which has bounced according to the bank.

All I have is a phone number, name, PO Box and email.

The buyer's phone seems switched off.

Is there any action that I can take?

Thanks for your help!

EDIT: Guys I really appreciate all your support and advise. Thank you. Bank was a dead end and not sure if I have enough to give the police any leads. I have learnt my lesson about gumtree and selling online in general. I am about to get bombard with uni exams from next week and this is just escalating my stress levels. It will also take a massive amount of time travelling to the bank the cheque was deposited to obtain a copy. Considering all I have is an email, phone number, name & Po Box and possibly the bank cheque (which will take at least 90 mins travel to obtain) do you guys reckon it is worth all the trouble and disrupting my exam studies to get my money back (a few hundred bucks)? Just after everyone's opinion. Thanks

Poll Options

  • 44
    Won't lead to anything, learn your lesson and just focus on exam prep. That money is gone for good.
  • 111
    Pursue the matter with the bank and police, it is likely something may come up.

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Comments

  • where are the tickets?

    • +5

      He probably already sent them, the game was last night

  • +1

    Doesn't it only show up in your bank once it has been cleared?

    • +3

      i thought so too, my bank shows it as Pending …or something similar

      • +3

        yes bank shows as pending.

    • +2

      It shows as funds but you cannot withdraw until the cheque clears.

      • +1

        Can confirm, remembered this from selling stuff on eBay a long time ago, wait till the payment clears before you send the item…

    • That completely SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSS :/

      • If you've got an interest bearing account, you get interest on that pending amount (not that it would amount to much these days).

        • +4

          Please give me a 9999999999999999999999999 dollar cheque which will bounce plz

  • +104

    Hope you get it sorted. Gumtree = CASH on hand + Face to face transaction, ONLY

    • -2

      That's right Gumtree snap the cash from the palm then touch their face. only.

    • +7

      Maybe for buyers. I've sold items on Gumtree over email. Waited for the funds to clear in my bank and sent the items off. Some were interstate. No problems.

      • +1

        Same here, bought a $400 pram plus shipping from Qld to Vic on honesty. Paid then it was sent.

        Maybe not the norm, but it worked.

      • but that's you being trustworthy, instead of the way it should be done. Not saying that as a bad thing, but not everyone out there would be a nice guy.

      • +1

        Not for the faint at heart but it's doable. bought a $2000 watch over gumtree/paypal.. Took extra precautions asked for a copy of seller's ID etc etc but not everyone is out to scam you. Still I have gotten burned on ebay twice (once as a seller once as a buyer) and somewhat know what to look out for. If not confident about a transaction best not to risk it.

      • If you have the time, of course. Otherwise, if it has to happen quickly, tell the buyer to pick up the tickets.

        On the other hand, if the item is expensive, I would take securities when transferring the item. Cousin of Friends sold a diamond ring for 10K, at the transfer the guy took out a knife, took the ring and ran. Father and son chased after him. Both got stabbed. The father died.

        • +1

          Some things just are not worth the risk

  • +3

    I've never experienced this myself, but from what I've heard you may find it difficult to get any sort of money back.

    If you're getting no response from the buyer you're only options may be the bank and/or police?

    One of the reasons why I'd never use bank deposits.

    • +3

      IIRC, cheques are usually "present again" in the first instance, unless they are fraudulent or have been re-called.

      Also, and again IIRC from my working life, writing a cheque on insufficient funds and passing it is a fraudulent act, i.e. it may be subject to criminal proceedings. Assuming it's worth pursuing, of course.

      • +1

        It's fraud if you pay by cheque knowing you have insufficient funds. It's not fraud if you believe there is sufficient funds (maybe your other-half bought a couple of bargain fancy kitchen mixers without you knowing).

        Proving the person knew it was a bad cheque can be the tricky part.

        • Proving the person knew it was a bad cheque can be the tricky part.

          yea, but IIRC banks will in the first instance "present again" on insufficient funds.

          I suspect the scam is to deposit the check and then cancel it with issuing bank. In those cases the depositor's bank would issue a "refer to drawer" notice or something similar.

          In any case, all of this is speculation. The OP ought to establish why the cheque bounced if some legal avenue of recovery is proposes.

          PS: Makes me glad I'm retired and don't receive and process cheques any more ;-)

  • +10

    I believe that each bank is different, mine comes up as a deposit - but the funds are not available until it clears.

    OP needs to file a police report with all the information - chances are the phone number is a burner and the name is fake (so there isn't much progress to be made there). The email could be used (Google) to potentially find more information - but again, this might be disposable. However, if you know the PO Box - this is your best chance because they need POI to open one.

  • +8

    I believe the banks do a good ID check to open an account, so as it was a bank transfer, which was bounced and possible fraud case, police can check with the bank and get the identifications.

    • +1

      Also from the P.O. Box?

  • +38

    All I have is a phone number, name, PO Box and email.

    Sit outside the post office and grab him as he collects his mail.

    • What if hes twice OP's size? :P

  • +16

    People still don't learn do they? Gumtree is only for Cash + In person.

    • -2

      I did a bank transfer interstate once for a sizeable gumtree purchase, but not until the guy had taken the goods down to pack and send and the staff had sent me photographs of it in their hands. They held it until he gave them the ok to send once the transfer cleared. Could still have gone wrong I guess but I felt reasonably confident in that arrangement, nothing less.

      • You should never feel comfortable sending money through bank deposit on Gumtree regardless of how confident you are or how nice the seller may seem. It's just something you don't do.

        • It had nothing to do with 'how nice the seller seemed', it was an arrangement with pack-and-send to be an intermediary on terms we both agreed to. No money was transferred until I had photographic proof he had delivered the goods to the courier company, and they didn't send it until he confirmed he received the money. It was a rare item I could not find anywhere else, so it was either an arrangement like this to mitigate the likelyhood of being scammed as much as practical, or go without.

  • How much money was it?

    • Thats what i want to know. Saying "a few hundred" but i'd be guessing it is closer to "a couple thousand" frankly

  • Ya, think you got scammed as my company got scammed once before, it show up in online statement as deposit but once the cheque bounced, you got no recourse from the bank other than try to get buyer to pay again. You will be careful in future after learning this lesson. Wonders whether EFT transactions can be reverse or not by the bank, anyone knows? So far, we do not have any such issue but good to knows if someone have experience in this matter.

    • +2

      I once transfer money to someone via EFT before realising that I inputed the amount wrong. The money was gone which was shown in the banks mobile app. Then I called the bank immediately and they were able to reverse that because it was a inter-bank transfer and the fund will not be cleared until next business day. So yes it can be reversed.

  • Bad luck, file a report with the police. They should have a fraud office or something which can give you info. The WA Police have a quick reporting guide to figure out who to report it to, couldn't find an equivalent for NSW (I assume you live there?). I think NSW Police are the way to go.

  • +1

    get a copy of the cheque from your bank - maybe not much you can do with it due to lack of authority to act on it, but from it you can get name of depositer and their bank details.
    *cheque may have also been stolen/etc.

  • Google the email address?

      • If they were that smart. This person was probably just an opportunist, and I bet the email address would come up on a Facebook search or similar :)

  • +32

    If the cheque is dishonoured, you should ask your bank to give you the original cheque (which it is obliged to do). You can sue the account owner for the value of a cheque which is dishonoured. You could take it to the police, ass it is pretty clearly a case of obtaining a financial advantage by deception, but they may be overworked or disinterested and tell you it is a civil matter (I'm a lawyer, this advice provided free and without liability - full 24 page terms and contitions and waiver form available if requested, but you are deemed to accept terms and conditions by reading the advice. In fact it's too late, you have already accepted)

    • +3

      no you're not, dennis.

    • +5

      can I get a photocopy of your T&Cs ?

      • You're in luck, tomorrow is Thursday - his girl will be able to fix it.

    • +23

      ALRIGHT!! Free paper! Please send me my 24 pages…

      • +8

        You are a true Ozbargainer.

        • unless it printed on double side, and then its just going to cost him his time to dispose of it (hopefully via recycling).

    • +1

      deemed to accept terms by reading the advice.

      lol!! what a joke!

      (By reading this means you accept you must paypal me a $20,000,000 monthly fee for the next 1000 years)

      • +10

        sigh

        Fine. what's your paypal address?

        • +1

          shit, he got me too.

  • +4

    Yep
    Get the cheque
    PS See if u know anyone in that bank who can maybe pass the owners address to you
    Then u got something to go by
    Then call the bikies

    • +3

      Fellow Gold Coaster I assume?

  • http://www.gumtree.com.au/scam-security-centre/gumtrees-top-…

    When buying or selling, you should always meet in-person to see the item and exchange money.

    Gumtree doesn’t offer any sort of buyer protection / payment programs.

    When buying tickets for events, you should always meet in-person to see the item and exchange money.

    To be honest, it's all there in the Gumtree policies, if you don't follow the policies in place and you get scammed, well that's just too bad isn't it?

    • +10

      Yes and No.

      You know, once upon a time in Australia we could just TRUST each other, people had honour and were honest.

      The dog eat dog world in which your comment is based on it a very sad place.

      • +10

        Back in the day people were a lot more restricted, both physically and socially, to their local area. Strangers weren't trusted.

        Now we have ready access to transport that can whisk us hundreds of kilometres away in a couple of hours. The Internet has increased our social circle and exposed us to a lot more people than our predecessors had access to.

        Do you think Great-great-granny domcc1 was able to find out the cheapest price for a broom in Australia? Or buy trinkets direct from a warehouse in the Far East? Or sell football tickets to a complete stranger, sight unseen, on the other side of the city?

        There have always been absconders, assailants, assassins, attackers, bandits, brigands, burglars, cheats, con artists, criminals, crooks, defrauders, delinquents, desperados, evildoers, felons, filchers, fraudsters, fugitives, gangsters, goons, gunpersons, highwaypersons, hijackers, hoodlums, hooligans, jailbirds, marauders, miscreants, mobsters, murderers, offenders, outlaws, pilferers, pillagers, pirates, plunderers, prowlers, racketeers, raiders, rascals, ravagers, robbers, rogues, ruffians, scammers, scoundrels, shysters, slanderers, spies, swindlers, thieves, thugs, traitors, transgressors, tricksters, villians, and wrongdoers.

        These days it's much easier to encounter them, and we tend to do stuff that makes it easy for them to take advantage, but same as the old days, there's more good people out there than bad.

        • +3

          Reminds me of the scene in Blazing Saddles…. hehehe

        • @Gaz1: mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers… :)

        • OP wants to be able to count de money.

      • +5

        Back in 1787 maybe?
        Australia has been populated with thieves and scammers ever since the first fleet arrived with all the convicts in tow.

      • +3

        You know, once upon a time in Australia we could just TRUST each other, people had honour and were honest.

        I'd love to leave my door unlocked at night, but this ain't Canada. ;)

  • +10

    Guys the money was in my account as not available and was under pending. I called Commbank numerous times before sending the tickets and they confirmed that the transaction was definitely going through. Thanks for your advise guys, getting the details of the check is probably the way to go. And yes I have learned my lesson about gumtree.

    • +13

      Then I would ring back Commbank and ask them to explain why it didn't go through despite their repeated assurances that it would. They shouldn't have confirmed it was definitely going through if it wasn't, you may have some form of recourse that way. That said, good luck getting money out of a bank.

      • +4

        I agree, I would have waited until the funds were clear but if the bank assured you, I would challenge them now.

      • You'd think if they've confirmed it's in the account and told you there is no way for it to be reversed; that they may have some liability in this.

      • +2

        they confirmed that the transaction was definitely going through

        Well, they weren't lying. It was going through.

        The way a cheque order works is:

        1. You receive the deposit slip, enter in destination BSB, Account # and Amount.
        2. You set the "Draw from" account information up using the details on the cheque. Enter the senders BSB, Account # and Amount.
        3. A pending transaction is created. Once the funds are on call, it will be attempted for the funds to be raised from the senders account. If the account is empty, an error is received. If the cheque is from a different bank, this error is not received instantaneously. It can often take 24 hours as you're sending a money order from one institution to another.
        4. The order "bounces" and is cheque is dishonoured. The cheque owner will receive a dishonour fee (~$50) — cheapest Chelsea tickets out!

        On the systems, the payment was processed. It's not ANZ's fault that CBA's customer didn't have money in their nominated chequing account.

        • CBA only charges $5 for cheque dishonour and ING is free, where do you get that $50 from?

        • @lgacb08: Westpac and ANZ against corporate & business accounts. Maybe they're a bit softer on dodgy individuals than they are on companies.

    • +11

      Lesson learnt, if you are going to get paid electronically, you do not send the goods until the funds are cleared………

      • Why are you getting negged? Perfectly reasonable advice. Especially for 7 x Chelsea v Sydney FC tickets ($1,063.37).

        • +3

          Maybe because this whole thread is about a cheque.

    • +1

      From my experience from CommBank their word is not worth a cent. Sorry to hear of ur situation. Hopefully u can call them back and demand an explanation and for them to take responsibility for making u believe the money will clear.

  • The OP wrote

    Now apparently it seems that it was a cheque deposit which has bounced according to the bank.

    The bank's notice will have given a reason and next action (insufficient funds, present again, invalid signature, unsigned, inactive account etc).

    So, what was the reason?

    • It says "returned cheque" on the statement. When I called to ask what that meant, they couldn't give me a definitive answer. They said possibilities are insufficient funds of whom the cheque was from, or maybe the name and account on the cheque do not match. They couldn't offer me any help. =/ The buyer isn't responding to my calls or text message.

      • +1

        Maybe banking has changed since i retired a couple of years ago. I often used to deal with dishonoured cheques. The bank always gave a reasonably clear indication why the cheque failed.

        • +1

          Banking has changed, now St.George sends a letter, refer to drawer and cheque will not be returned for re-presentation. Pretty much end of story, chase the cheque issuer which is difficult, especially for small amounts. I think the law will have to change like a lot of other countries, where issuing a dishonoured cheque is a criminal offence, too many people and small businesses taking advantage of it.

        • @Repi:
          Westpac business accounts are the same. Letter with a cheque and refer to drawer.

  • +11

    Scamming someone out of tickets like that is just the lowest of the low. May karma bless them with all the shitty luck they deserve.

    • +1

      May karma bless them with all the shitty luck they deserve.

      May spaghetti and flaming meatballs rain down upon them!

  • +4

    Isn't ticket scalping illegal?

    Is it a case of scamster scamming scamster.

    • +2

      Wait what?! Don't you buy an extra 6 tickets to every event you go to?

      It certainly does sound like he was scalping tickets. Sucks to be robbed but if it occurred by attempting to rip off others then they got what they deserved.

      • +1

        The plot thickens!

      • +3

        If some people are able to get better seats than the ones they have they might go for them like I did. Especially if it might be your only chance to see your favourite team. Didn't even try to rip off anyone, just covering my ticket costs + fees. Maybe everything isn't what it sounds like?

        • +3

          Then why didn't you just buy the better seats originally? You bought average seats then better seats popped up. It does still seem a bit unusual

        • +2

          @4agte: First bought seats in presale. Then had a go at the general public sale and the seats were row 5. Snapped them up straight away. BOTH purchases were in the same category. There is really no way to go for "better seats" straight away. They just allocate you the best seats available at the time, generated by the system. The seats you get in one release may be in a completely different place in another release, even if you purchase in the same category. These aren't like movie tickets were you can choose your spots. :)

        • @meezyy:
          Yes, I always thought that presales were always great seats but I have found lately that the main public launch can actually be better (and they wont change the ones you bought at presale.
          … and don't get me started about the fee for emailing my ticket!

        • So you're saying you were at the event and knew where this scanner was sitting but didn't confront them? Or you weren't actually there at all and you were scalping?

        • -1

          Good point. Did you even go to the match? Who buys 6 "extra" tickets?

        • @SKiZO: FFS you only had to read the OPs comments just above here, if you can't be bothered reading the rest.

        • @McFly: FFS did he go or not? I don't have time to trawl OZB all day.

    • +10

      Selling tickets tickets you've bought isn't illegal. There are certain rules set around it but not illegal.

      • but the questions is….were you selling it at cost price?

        • Doesn't matter, it's not a crime to scalp

        • -1

          @The Land of Smeg: Dec 8, 2006 - The Queensland Parliament has passed laws to make ticket scalping an offence.

        • @Davros: Is it an offence in NSW?

        • +8

          @Thrift:

          In NSW, ticket scalping is generally not prohibited, except in areas around the Sydney Cricket Ground, the Sydney Football Stadium, and Sydney Olympic Park precinct.

          http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Consumers/Buying_servi…

    • +1

      http://resale.ticketmaster.com.au/

      Scalpers paradise….

      Ticket resale occurs when customers resell tickets to events. Tickets can often be bought and resold multiple times. Tickets are sold at a price determined by the seller – this may be more or less than the face value of the ticket.

      • From http://premier.ticketek.com.au/content/buyers/termsofsale.as…

        Resale of tickets & scalping

        1. Tickets may not, without the prior written consent of Ticketek and the Seller, be resold or offered for resale at a premium (including via on-line auction or other unauthorised resale sites) or used for advertising, promotion or other commercial purposes (including competitions and trade promotions) or to enhance the demand for other goods or services. If a ticket is sold or used in breach of this condition, the ticket may be cancelled without a refund and the ticketholder may be refused admission. Ticketek and/or the Seller will take all reasonable steps to notify you of Ticketek’s intention to cancel the ticket or render it invalid within a reasonable time before cancelling it or rendering it invalid.
          SCALPING WARNING: The resale of tickets in certain circumstances is governed by ticket sales legislation and may attract criminal penalties.
        • +2

          Different company….. Different policy

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