I have a friend who's been unemployed for a long time, anyway he was telling me how he feels trapped in the 'system' as he calls it and that it is getting worse as from July 1, 2015 everyone on the dole will be forced to do a WFD activity.
He's been doing a CAP activity at a certain charity shop which he hates as he feels it isn't taking him anywhere as all he does is manual labor and he doesn't get along with his fellow 'wfd-slaves' (lazy c***s, as he calls them) as they are so LAZY all they do is smoke, drink coffee in the staff room and 'pretend to work' while he does all the heavy lifting jobs there.
He wants to work and does apply for jobs but since he's been unemployed so long there are massive gaps in his resume (he's shown it to me) and frankly he gets depressed at the thought of spending the rest of his life stuck in that hell-hole doing menial shitty tasks, he really wants to break the cycle but doesn't know where to start, he's with Max Employment which doesn't help him at all, he wants to work but he's got no recent job experience or current education/training to make a success of his life.
He's thinking of studying but the people at Max will not give him any training to escape the welfare cycle he's stuck in, not even an RSA/RCG course, only their 'in-house' useless courses.
I told him to go to TAFE and switch from Newstart to Austudy, at least that mob will stop bothering him and also as he gets some new qualifications he's got a better chance of getting off the dole, but I'm not really sure what he can do.
How can my friend break the welfare cycle?
Getting out of The Welfare Cycle?
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+1 this. I know a few people on the dole. Every single one of them always 'sleeps in' or 'too tired'. and then complains the next day saying no one will give them a job. Just eye roll these people now!
You are very lucky then. Both times I have been looking for work it took over a year, and I was looking at everything I thought I could do i.e. waitressing, Coles cashier/shelf stacker, admin across a broad range.
Most people I know have had the same problem.
I personally dont believe its a fact that he is not trying, its most likely that he is not looking in the correct places.
People who cannot obtain a job are often only looking for a job that they want to do. You can't always get what you want. Theres plenty of jobs out there it just may not be what they want.
I believe the lower skilled, menial jobs are actually the hardest to find at the moment. Please, link OP to these plentiful jobs, I'm sure it would be actually helpful:
http://www.seek.com.au/jobs-in-manufacturing-transport-logis…
Plenty of forklift/truck driving jobs in Sydney.
Yes it means you may need to upskill but you need to spend money to make money sometimes.
I'd also like to point out the fact that about 70% of jobs that are available are not mass advertised due to the cost associated with doing so.
I could find plenty of other areas including customer service, basic accounting jobs etc.
Sorry to be brutally honest but you have to be a pretty crap human being to not be able to get a job if you are genuinely trying to obtain work in every/any field you could.
Oh, I thought you meant there were plenty of jobs that you didn't need qualifications for (aka. lower skilled, menial).
How much money would it have cost you to get your license had you not been lucky enough to have your parents? How much does it cost to get your forklift ticket? Green card? White card? Safety gear? How much are you really able to pay for these things living on a maximum of $250 a week? How many other people are applying for these jobs? How many of these jobs are already filled but advertised as a legal requirement?
Sorry to be brutally honest, but you have a simplistic, shallow view of this issue.
I'd also like to point out that there are X jobs available and Y people unemployed. When Y exceeds X there will be unemployment. This has to happen for the economy to function properly.
WELL Woolfenstein, we live in a country where its damn easy to get money off the government and most of these things paid for free of charge or accumulated in the form of a government loan. The amount of government subsidized courses available is insane. I have obtained my MR truck licence due to the fact that these courses exist. I got this as if I ever need a job I have the ability to drive a truck. Oh and yes this was free. Even if it was not free it would be around $600.
I'm implying that there are a lot of jobs readily available, the effort/investment required to obtain a job is minimal in the scheme of things. I'm not implying you need to spend 3 years at uni to get a job.
If you cannot save a grand whilst on centrelink then you are living beyond your means. I've been on it before and if you live smart enough you can easily do more than just get by in life. People that complain about not being able to survive on the dole are living beyond their means.
ALSO, 'whilst living on a maximum of $250 a week', if anybody struggles to live off that then they are living well beyond their means. You could easily live off $250 a week whilst still having a car if you were sensible.
I myself have 7 employers and I could get more if I wanted. You cannot expect to get a job for nothing. Even if a job requires no skills, the person who has done a certificate I that took them 3 days will most likely get the job over you (depending on the personality of the person, if you are a crap person then you will struggle in general).
@rambutann: $250 a week is easy and you should be able to save? Maybe if your mummy and daddy let you live in their house for free and spoon feed you your scrambled egg. You are clearly out of touch.
haha - hilarous.
I lived independently off centrelink for years on end with no input from parents or any other external sources of income before I began working full time.
You sir are the one who is clearly out of touch.
@rambutann: So how much rent did you pay? I am seriously interested. How were you living for years on $250/week whilst providing your own accommodation, food, healthcare, and transport/owning a car?
$107 a week rent, ~$40-50 a week in food + random bills of about $20 a week.
I never owned a car whilst on centrelink, I said that you could easily live off $250 with a car.
@rambutann: Lucky you, that's very cheap rent. You can get one room in a dodgy sharehouse in the western suburbs of Sydney an hours' drive (or 2.5 by public transport) from my workplace for twice that!
This may provide some perspective: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2083652
Also, phone, internet, transport? Hard to find a job without these.
Yes, I think that's incredibly cheap rent + bills. What happens if you have car troubles or medical or dental problems?? You could probably scrape by for a while but inevitably it's not sustainable.
A lot of the jobs this guy is talking about are probably those casual jobs from agencies where they hire and fire at a moments notice. I don't count those as real jobs either.
As far as I'm concerned it's all about who you know. Nobody wants to give you a job. Your qualifications and skills don't matter unless you're good at making friends and selling yourself in job interviews.
I'd also like to point out the fact that about 70% of jobs that are available are not mass advertised due to the cost associated with doing so.
This is a key point. A drive through a close industrial area of your suburb/town/city will find businesses looking for workers only advertising by a sign out the front of their work.
Good idea, and sometimes not advertising. Some cold calling can pay dividends if he's got the confidence without the arrogance, or just willing to do whatever on the way to something better.
@woolfenstein: I am currently on $150/w rent. That would leave $100 for other things such as food/public transport etc.
Which is plenty in my honest opinion. If one is willing to make sacrifices on food (not exactly healthy).
@azorax: $100 for water, electricity, communication, food, transport & SAVINGS (cos being able to live comfortably and save on $250 a week was, well, the actual point of all of this). Sure, you can have people living in poverty on $250 and not dying, but this is not really desirable: more disposable income = more spending = stimulated economy
It's not hard. Walk into a cafe/restaurant - plenty want to hire kitchen helpers / baristas etc be it only part time to begin. You then pick up the skills on the job.
You don't learn any skills sitting at home do you?
If you don't have nearly 100% employment there are people looking who are going to lose out on the last musical chair.
Unpaid jobs are not helpful. WFD is worse than slavery, it's wasted slavery because often the jobs are meaningless busywork.
What the hell ever happened to minimum wage, minimum protections, minimum entitlements for leave etc.? This country is going to hell.
BPOs often have at least a couple of clients with erratic volumes, and use temps to fill the gap. They usually represent lots of different business, and appreciate people willing to train to cover multiple accounts. It's an easy job to get into, with a lot of potential for full time work, and interesting roles.
So True any job is a start. then you can apply for your dream job.
Work at Maccas, or collect trolleys/stack shelves and do Tafe in between shifts.
If there's a will, there's a way!
Getting a job at Maccas can actually be hard if you're over 15, difficulty increasing with age.
I wanted a job at maccass. Applied several times… Was never offered one :'(
If there are 100 people and 94 jobs it doesn't matter how hard the 6 that miss out work, there will always be 6 that don't make the cut. That's what an unemployment rate is.
Same here for a long time. Had undergrad and masters degrees, life experience etc.
Worked in several sandwich shops which were fun enough but quite demoralising at times.In the end I got a graduate job with lots of travel to out west compared with where I'd considered working previously for a company only loosely connected with my field of training and with questionable ethics.
I stayed there 9 months and was able to use that as my entry point into real work for a company I wanted to work for.
Get himself a skill. There's always jobs around. A friend of mine picked up barista and latte art skills from just working part time jobs at restaurants or cafes when he was a student. He's now working at one of the top coffee joints. Was never short of offers when he wanted to switch jobs, despite all the news about unemployment.
Lie on your resume. Not even kidding. Do it 100%. Extend your jobs to lessen gaps, etc. Potential employers can't just call everyone listed on your resume, you have to give permission for them to contact specific references.
Forget Max Employment (had them "help" me before… ha, JSPs are rorts, watch Four Corners - http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2015/02/23/4183437.ht…) you are simply human capital to them, often it's not even in their best interest to find you a job.
Contact TAFE yourself. If you're a welfare recipient the discount you get is awesome (used to be better).
NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK - most of the time getting a job is about who you know.
When you find YOURSELF a job, and Max Employment comes sniffing around wanting to know your hourly rate, how many pubes you have etc. they aren't actually entitled to that information and are trying to rort by saying they found you the job they had no part in, so they get a bonus. Tell em to piss off.
Don't get too down on yourself, don't listen to idiots, and enjoy the time off you have right now, YES you're allowed to. Make stuff to sell if you're creative, volunteer, learn, work out, hobby etc. I was going to lose my job due to the company downsizing not long ago - was applying for 10 + jobs a day for a month, very few responses, couple of interviews, one awesome recruitment agency who were very helpful… no dice. Luckily I was able to stay on with my original company.
I wish I could upvote you 100 times for talking about how much of rort JSPs are. They are largely hopeless when it comes to helping people find work. They usually wait until you do the heavy lifting yourself and then try to claim credit for it. The ones I have been to also seem to have a high turnover rate of employees. One week you might see person X then 2 weeks later you are told to see someone different, when you ask where X is they are "no longer with us". A few people I know have had that experience.
T.A.F.E. is a good idea. Not only will you learn something but sometimes the staff there also work in that industry and can help you get your foot in the door in that particular career. The only thing I disliked about T.A.F.E. was some of the people in some of the classes were obviously there to get Centrelink off their case which meant they didn't do the work and if you were unlucky enough to have to do any group projects they had a tendency to do nothing. Try to work out early who is there because they want to be and who is there because they prefer it to looking for work.
I worked for a JSP for 12 months. It was sort of soul destroying. it was a struggle as many clients had been in the system for so long that that they just went through the motions of looking for work with out giving a shit (and you could tell). then there were people who deliberately sabotaged every effort you made for finding them work - e.g. found this woman a job in a recycling plant -all she had to do was turn up on Monday at 8:30 and sort material for 8 hours a day and get paid $22 p/h. needless to say on monday at 11 the employer rings up and asks where she is. I rang her mobile and she says her car had broken down. did she call my office and say "hey, small problem" or anything.
or the dude that I offered a free fork lift license course to (which had been organised with a training company at a special bulk rate on a certain day). however he couldn't do it as he had to set up for comic book festival.
Or the alcoholic truck driver with no other skills who was indenial and had lost his license and was suffering from korsakoff's disease but hadn't been assessed correctly by Centrelink and was put on NSA rather than DSP.
just a few out of many examples that contribute to the helplessness of JSP case managers.
But back to the OPs request - training. yeah, get your mate to do a practical course. anything. just to secure some type of employment. I had a new white collar job lined up but due to funding I had to wait 3 months for it to start. so to get a temporary job quickly I got a road traffic controller ticket and worked on the roads for those 3 months. finished that temp on a sunday (standing on a road in a fluro vest with a stop/slow sign directing traffic) and the next day walked into my new job in a government office in a suit.
I have no doubt there are people who don't care, make no effort, or even sabotage their own efforts. That is sad and a complete waste of everyone's time. I didn't mean to suggest everyone who works as a JSP sucks. My experience has been pretty bad, though. Most seemed only interested to get you in, sign one of those employment pathway plans, and leave. Not really helpful.
With those people who didn't turn up or wanted to do other things instead of upskill, didn't you just report their attitude or non-compliance to Centrelink? Don't they then lose their payments or whatever?
report their attitude or non-compliance to Centrelink.
it didn't really work that way back then (10 years ago). the only time you would report them is if they didn't rock up to their appointments 3 times in a row. it was extremely frustrating that I couldn't "lay down the law" and force/coerce them in to doing these things. Where I was giving them a hand up- a sure thing, they just didn't care.
I couldn't understand their attitudes as it seemed foreign to me to not to want to work. but their attitude is their problem and holding them back and there was little use in trying to talk them around.
10 YEARS AGO for 12 MONTHS - you have no idea about anything, basically.
Everyone should watch that Four Corners documentary if they're unaware of huge flaws in the current system, or rather, the denial we're all in. Whether you believe futurist Thomas Frey's prediction that "2 billion jobs will disappear by 2030" or not, we have to confront the fact that skills in-demand will change.
We're somewhat lucky in the short-term that a good number of managers in Australia are either stupid or old-fashioned. Smart people find new ways to increase productivity but this invariably causes a decline in historical "jobs". Of course for exportable goods and services this inefficiency and inability to adapt will leave Australia behind in the long-term and cause us to eventually rely on imports. In the end what's moral anyway - on the whole we're living it up now only because we exploit cheap labour from developing countries.
Of greater concern is Australia's high rate of inter-personal and sexual violence, which at times is exacerbated by booze and more recently, crystal meth. It's one thing to live in a neighbourhood full of unemployed people that happily go on their way versus waiting every night for the next drunken shouting match to begin. We should also look into profound social changes that can minimise depression - and that goes for both the employed and unemployed. Now that technology has given us the means to keep more people alive for a longer timeframe we should probably find ways for people to enjoy it.
"Of greater concern is Australia's high rate of inter-personal and sexual violence, which at times is exacerbated by booze and more recently, crystal meth. It's one thing to live in a neighbourhood full of unemployed people that happily go on their way versus waiting every night for the next drunken shouting match to begin."
+1 BUT - I don't like the insinuation that Australia's high level of domestic violence is restricted to a certain socio-economic group, that is simply not the case.
Sorry about that, it was actually just an unfortunate juxtaposition of the two themes. I was actually trying to stress your exact point - that keeping everyone busy and on a a steady income won't miraculously solve all of Australia's pressing social issues (I've personally witnessed an unemployed, recovering alcoholic completely relapse into heavy drinking soon after landing a high-paying job).
You're a cool guy Pumpkin Eater.
Have a look on Gumtree. Plenty of ads asking for volunteers with a view to a part-time/full-time position after.
I would suggest very few lead to reliable paid employment. He has a volunteer job already.
Well then you are out of touch with reality, because my friend got a decent office job like that.
Skeggs said VERY FEW would lead to reliable paid employment. Your little anecdote is one person getting one job. There have been studies about free labour and gaining paid employment - the correlation doesn't look very strong.
What ever, I don't care, continue to be closed minded just because a 'study' said so. This thread is clearly about having intiative.
@plmko: We're just saying it's not a 100% sure way of getting a job as it sounds you are suggesting.
We are saying that it is possible but only if you are lucky. He should take into consideration all advice suggested.
A lot of "just try harder" in this thread.
I have no idea how you could save $600 to get a truck licence on $250 newstart. And that presumes that you pass the course.My best suggestion is to ask friends and family to help him find any sort of job. Even a day working as a labourer at somebody's house renovation, or similar.
String a few together and he will gain a network of work colleagues who may help him find other work.
When a bunch of people are doing a few days work digging footings for a house renovation (for example) they will talk about other work up coming.
If your friend turns up on time and pulls his weight he will get more work, because a lot of people fail one of those two tasks.Another possibility is to turn up at an industrial park at 7:30 in the morning (Monday's is best), go into each factory unit and politely ask who is running the shift.
Explain keen to find work, can start right now. A lot of small businesses aren't fussed with job interviews/resumes etc. but have people call in sick. If you are the solution, standing right there to getting the order out on time etc. you could be employed in 5 minutes.
This works best if he knows somebody who works there, of course. But it wouldn't take too many tries at turning up early for somebody to be convinced to give him a go.
a lot of those new start people have paytv and smoke/drink….. I could see giving up these few things as a quick way to saving $600……
Is that a fact? Or are you using your preconceived notions of how 'those people' behave? It's opinions like yours that further deteriorate the situation these people are in.
no they really do. i know about 5 of them and they spend their money on unnecessary crap.
Yes speaking from people I know on gov assistance. Ok not all smoke, but they all have paytv and like to have a drink. Plus internet adsl plans, iphones etc.
A few things they could go 'without' to get ahead if $600 was all they needed as per this example.
How about a labourer for a small coy etc render/bricky
Drop the going rate by 50% to get in, work 50% harder then anyone else, get experience then start looking for better cash as soon as you are ready
Start learning the trade so you can charge $400 per day in due courseI am strongly against working for less than minimum wage, that's a dangerous thing to start encouraging people to do.
true but I never said to do that
50% less than a labourers going rate is still above the minimum wage.give or takeIs $33.74+ an hour the going rate for unskilled labour?!
Call center work. Problem solved. As long as your mate can speak and use a keyboard there is a $20/hr+ job out there.
Market research was good. But, read the recent news about Newspoll? They're replacing CATI Interviewers with bots.
https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/37n6qo/newspoll_…
Should just make it illegal. So tired of 2-5 calls a night trying to sell electricity or gas or to scam me (identity theft).
Market research =/= telemarketing.
private number gets rid of most (but not all)
Want to be reachable and searchable. Just wish there was a genuine opt out for marketing/research/charity/scammers.
@syousef: for my company we use www.sample pages.com.au and you can just email them to have your number removed off the database.
If you're looking for training then the government can help with tuition fees. They essentially have a HECS scheme for TAFE http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/helppayingmyfees…
https://www.tafensw.edu.au/courses/get-started-at-tafe-nsw/p…it's not hard. there are plenty of unskilled jobs that he can do. Cleaner, hospitality, warehousing. He's just looking at the wrong place and or doesn't want to do certain jobs. Get those menial job first so you'll have your safety net then start looking for better job.
If the job agency genuinely won't help, he's within his rights to approach another job agency and ask if they will take him on. If they agree to do so, he needs to then go to his current one and ask to be released. It's usually fairly straight forward, but if they refuse to release you,
you can make a complaint to the Department of Employment on 1800805260 who will most likely iron it out for you.He needs to be aware that many of the job agencies will cease to exist after July 1, so he'll need to look into that.
None of them help. I went to 3 different ones when I was a job seeker: YWCA, Mission Australia, Max Employment. Found my job privately. I shared a link to a Four Corners episode above. It's pretty interesting.
THOU SHALT NEVER WORK FOR ANYONE! This commandment should be taught to everyone! Learn to do something, for example shaving soap, design a razor, make giner beer, pop popcorn ~ whatever and sell online and at the weekend markets. Make coffee, cut hair, do mens grooming (in the workplace, rich people like to do everything at a desk! Make homebrew, but basically be an entrepreneur ~ YOU WILL NEVER GIVE YOURSELF THE SACK.
Anyone can work, pick fruit and vegies… Plants have never stoped growing! A mate makes a good living growing cactus for crying out loud
Must be a prick of a job!
You've got a point.
Love it. Good one.
I agree, I think.
It's funny how these days there's an expectation that somebody else will do the hard work of establishing a business, and provide employment to me.
Ideally, we should have our own business, and if we're successful maybe provide employment for someone else.
If we have a skill that's valuable to someone, that's when providing your services to an employer might be better than running your own business.Sometimes people don't want to have a skill or provide a service, they just want to turn up and get a regular pay check.
On the other hand, I personally found that getting a marketable skill allows me to just turn up (and use my skill I guess) for that pay check.
I still feel I took the lazy approach though and if I was contributing to society, I should have my own business.*cacti
Seriously though, most of those things u said, if done by the book, require expensive licenses and/ or permits.
Selling booze or girl-scout cookies without a permit is a surefire way to get a huge fine + a day in court + civil suit. Welcome to the 21st Century.
Yes, even the most basic business will require some kind of startup capital. Plus the fact that it takes time to set up. Those cacti need months and years to grow! You will still need to work to support yourself and your hobby/business.
That said I totally agree with the "THOU SHALT WORK FOR NO-ONE" ideology. It's definitely something I'm working torwards.
Cant get out of the welfare cycle is bullsh*t.
The problem with the dole is that it has resulted in a generation of Australians who doesn't have a drive to work, because why bother why u get money for bumming around ( or having kids) ? And it's so easy to blame everyone from society to the government to even china ( for their low skill workers) but not yourself.
The crap about not having enough left over for course to upskill is also crap. You can literally walk into any restaurant and offer to do dishes, even at "illegal" wages of $10 per hour, u can easily save enough for whatever short course you want in half a year.
You want the dream job that pays $30 per hour, not a lot of work , fantastic working conditions and work mate? Dream on then.Have a look around the new migrants from india to china where concept of the dole dont exist. You ever see them complain about being poor? Nope, they suck it up, find whatever jobs they can from chicken farm to fruit picking( and mind u, some of them have Masters degrees) , earn their $$, buy their investment houses and rent it out to pple on the dole.
I love people who have this attitude. 'Everyone else is a lazy bludger and I'm the only one who'd choose a hard days work'. It's like the people who poopoo the legalisation of drugs. They are always quoted as saying that drug use would go up and people would abuse it left right and centre. Then they are asked if they would abuse it, and the answer is no.
It always comes down to 'I'm smarter and better than literally everyone else in my community'. The dole has been available for a long time, yet society doesn't collapse because of the marjority of the workforce deciding that they'd like to retire on the kings ransom of $250 a week.
No, there isn't a generation of Australians who don't have a drive to work, there are just some people who have a superiority complex it seems.
- firstly don't go down the slippery slope of comparing what i said to your example of legalization of drugs ( which doesn't make sense actually). Your example being wrong in your words doesn't mean that what i said is wrong just because you put them as similar.
Learn the semantics of an argument first.
It doesn't come down to being smarter and better either. It comes down to who is willing to put in simple hard work for a day of money and who isn't.
The dole started as a good thing, but it got abused and ultimately created a lesser drive to work. How many able body person have u seen on a disability pension? I deal with them on a daily basis. These perfectly able bodied man and women who got some phantom pain somewhere who somehow can't work but is perfectly capable of arguing with healthcare workers, using a laptop, smoking weed , wadding around and even have kids. Surely, they can man some help line or whatever, but no, why bother? I AM ON A DISABILITY PENSION.
Society isn't collapsing, but the burden is increasing on the remainder who work. You go and compare tax rates between countries that have a dole system and those that don't.
I am all for supporting pple who TRULY can't work, eg, lost a limb , having a stroke etc and similarly, the retrenched who need some cash for a few months before getting a new job, BUT to be on the dole FOR YEARS, and saying "oh my god, i cant afford to upskill BECUASE I CAN'T LIVE ON A THOUSAND BUCKS A MONTH and i am forever trapped in this cycle of poverty " , anyway you slice it, is simply pure laziness.
No the two arguments are the same. You seem to think that there's a generation of people who would rather get the dole than work. If it's so attractive a prospect why aren't you living the life of luxury on the dole?
It's the same thing as the drug argument. Basically, everyone will abuse it except me unless we make it impossible to get, i.e. everyone will abuse the dole except me unless we heavily restrict it or everyone will abuse drugs except me unless we heavily restrict them.
It comes down to you thinking that you're the only one who's really willing to work hard or who's really willing to exercise some self control. I'm not accusing you of loving or hating drugs, just trying to get you to see your argument from a different perspective.
And if you can't recognise that it's possible to become entrenched in the vicious cycle of poverty that comes from being unemployed and on welfare (i.e. on welfare, can't find a job, get a giant gap in resume, makes it even harder to get a job, rinse repeat) then there's no point in trying to persuade you. It's widely acknowledged there's far more people looking for jobs than there are jobs available, which makes it an employers market and means they can very easily discriminate against people with gaps in their resumes.
Again, learn the semantics of an argument.
You create an extreme, ie "EVERYONE will abuse it", or "if it's so good, why doesn't everyone go on it" and argue against that and hence declare that someone else's augment is wrong.I don't get your drug argument. I think a lot of folks will abuse it INCLUDING ME. Hence make it hard to get, illegal to sell, even for me.
Same thing for the dole. I don't think i am the only one willing to work hard.I think that a lot of the people on the dole long term should work, but they don't because $1K for doing nothing is a lot.
They are lazy and it as simple as that, and to say u don't have extra left over to upskill is worse.And are you sure that it's a employers market? For the soft $30/hr cushy jobs that is easy , of cse it is. But there are so many odd jobs around, dish washing, cleaning jobs , but strangely, unfilled.
BECAUSE WHY BOTHER WORKING IN THOSE DIRTY, HARD JOBS WHEN I CAN GET 1K A MONTH FOR DOING NOTHING?!!! That's the simple fact. If there is no dole, trust me, there will REALLY be no jobs.
@cosycatus: I'm sorry but it's stupid to dismiss my argument because of 'semantics' (there is no semantic disagreement here) when I was merely extending your original point, and I quote:
a generation of Australians who doesn't have a drive to work
I just bring up the drug argument because I see them as identical reasoning, that for some reason there's this giant group of people out there who would do something that each one of us individually would say we would never do (I'd never bludge, I'd never go stupid taking drugs).
And sure, $1k a month for doing nothing is great, but only $1k per month to live on entirely? That's an objectively shitty existence despite how jealous you seem to be at the notion. And $1k per month with no apparent path to employment and independence? That's a truly dismal situation regardless of how much money you think $1k per month is.
And yes, it's definitely an employers market. I can offer the vacant jobs vs jobseeker argument which should be enough to settle it on it's own but I can also offer anecdotes which confirm it. But if quoting established facts doesn't sway you then I doubt anecdotes will either.
If there's no dole then I'm afraid what you'll find is an exploited underclass and severe social problems, not to mention you'll have to spend all that money shuffling the homeless off your city streets so you don't have to feel anything on your walk to work in the morning.
+1 "I'm not lucky, my parents just worked hard to give me what I have."
Some sort of qualification is the best and occasionally only way to get out of the cycle. You might be able to get the government to subsidise it. Sadly even TAFE courses can be so expensive now. You can add to it to a long term debt which you shouldn't have to, but at least you can get a qualification without an upfron cost.
Look for something with a shortage of people. Perhaps optical fibre splicing / installation and pick up some work with NBN contractors?
In the meantime perhaps supplement income doing some odd jobs on airtasker.
ok, thanks for that. If there is a UI way that would be great.
Otherwise would we please have a script to run that could change it?
One that changed it for all users would be fine.
Thanks,
Miles
He can pay for an RSA course himself.
The one I did in Melbourne was just $35 at http://www.rsamelbourne.vic.edu.au/ And it takes just 4 hours or so to do the course.
Although I'm sure money's tight, I feel like $35 for something that significantly increases the jobs available is a good move, even if it takes a few weeks to save it up.And I'm sure there are other cheap RSA courses in other places if you're in another state… maybe even cheaper since I think some states let you do it all online.
Best of luck to your friend.
Unfortunately New South Welsh(wo)men won't pay less than $105 or so anymore for an RSA. They recently made on-line courses illegitimate. You can now do it "by mail correspondence" (…i.e. on-line) in NSW but it costs just as much. Of course you can do it for only $10 in other states with Galaxy training!
Fortunately the construction white card works across borders so it's trivial to get a cheaper one on-line (for as cheap as $35 for a QLD from Inscope).
It sucks when your state is the only one to do things "properly" (my RSA course was a waste of time - why do you have to "refresh" at a full fee every 5 years when a labouring card lasts forever if you've worked in the past 2 years?).
I am sorry peeps, but all seemed to rip apart the jobseeker. Just so you know many employers are also partly to be blamed. They do discriminate. Oh yes they do! You are kidding yourself if you think they follow the Human Rights Act word for word. Employers wants them very well educated, loads of work experience with only 1 week gaps in CV, not old age wise, don't have an accent, A sharp dresser be exceptionally well groomed happy to accept low pay etc. Not so long ago, I had the unfortunate task of looking for work and I was shocked to see ads asking for a Degree for what appears to be a glorified Lunch Lady position at the office. Also recruitment agencies lie to get you show up for them to eliminate and also to get your hopes up then selects only all the brain surgeons for their client who only needs a telephone operator. I do believe the employment place is so competitive that a tiny little thing they can find issues with, they will. Your age is something employers love to pick on. They will not tell you, no but they don't like people who are old. These days to answer a phone call for a job, you need to be in a Hugo Boss suit for the interview, wear K mart and you will be rejected. Older than 40? Well you better have CEO experience otherwise, you're too old. Oh you do have CEO experience? well you are over qualified. Still others look for experience in their own inhouse software that only an ex employee would know how to use let alone be proficient. No one from outside their organisation would know how to use their in house software. It is important to minimise gaps, so any casual or temporary positions will fill it nicely. I also think the welfare payments can be addictive that is why they have changed it to be more strict.
It's a little sad that transparent job advertisements have only highlighted the discrimination that occurred invisibly previously. For example, Careerone has a simple testing task on Airtasker (which its associated to) and they've only been hiring females (see https://www.airtasker.com/tasks/online-event-website-testing… - despite only requesting 20 individuals they've only selected 7 females so far and left the remaining positions open).
Whereas we're normally told not to bother with photos for resumes (unless of course applying for a modelling/acting gig) it is used to build trust on-line but can also be used for instant positive discrimination when done right or of course the opposite. The only reason I like the seedy world of Gumtree is there's no commission to pay out on the already mediocre wages and a simple no-nonsense phone call will often get you the job.
Just a thought - does your friend like computers / graphics / SEO? There's lots of potential with freelance graphics design and/or web design. Obviously a qualification is helpful, but if not possible right now, perhaps your friend can start doing tutorials and free online courses etc (UDEMY!). By doing lots of practice and learning about the theory etc, he can become pretty great. He could start off on AirTasker doing odd jobs (eg graphics / website jobs), then progress from there. I have a friend who followed this path and is now a very successful freelancer.
Many small businesses that I personally know are also very open to hiring individuals, placing more weight on their portfolio & communication skills, than on their "degree".
PS I'm thinking along these lines because my own business is looking for a contract-based graphics designer, an SEO expert, and a developer too. :)
Good luck to your friend.
Start his own business, like mowing lawns.
He needs to put his name down with job search agencies.
Discussion threads about welfare are always fiery and it is very easy to find out who is a leftie and who is on the right.
Those Work for the Dole programs are an expensive way for the government to punish unemployed people. They were an awful Howard government idea that the degenerate ALP seems to support lock, stock and barrel. Organizations running these slave labour programs get paid $10,000 per person per year, almost as much as the dole for a single person per year. And it is slavery, the evil government forcing people to work for a third party who doesn't pay them a cent for their labour. If the government wants to compel the unemployed to work, at least have them do something useful for the community like building infrastructure (this would also teach them employable skills). There is always a need for new roads or road repairs, and we have an NBN that needs to be constructed. I also imagine a lot of money is also squandered on Job Network Providers, white collar parasites that contribute nothing to the community.
In the past people with low employability migrated from the dole to DSP, but since the late 00s DSP has been extremely difficuly to qualify for. I have heard people call living on the DSP "Comfortable poverty". 'Comfortable' because unlike with the dole you are not constantly being harassed and humiliated by the bureaucrats.
You do get trapped on the system and I wish your friend help. Sadly when you're so long term, it is useless to be told what you need to do, you just wish someone would do it for you. Get you that job. Someone to give you the agency phone number. Someone to help you write the application. Someone to tell you exactly who to call to book that training. You need help and you want someone to make your decisions and do for you what they are telling you to do. Your confidence is gone.
If you want to help your friend, you should compile a list of job agencies ( not the employment agencies) for them. Maybe 5. Tell him to come over to yours, sit with him as he calls each up, to makes appointments to go in and meet the agency and give his cv. Help him with as many decisions as possible.
Become a Pawnstar?
You can point them in the right direction but the choice has to be theirs.
My Sister recently got her first job. She's 27. She was on the disability pension. Last year she enrolled in an Aged care course. No one made her do it. She studied hard. She used a text to speech reader and had to learn the meaning of words we consider general knowledge. She passed! She joined a disability service to help her find work. They didn't do much. She printed a list of 100 aged care facilities and visited as many as she could. A week later she started her first job. She loves it.
I struggled with the system and can definitely sympathize with anyone else who is in the same predicament. After being assigned to the work of the dole program, aside from the 80 min travel to the community center, I spent the first week picking up leaves, trash, and sweeping. It only became "better" when I decided to follow the other unemployed there and do "activities" such as making houses out of cardboard. 4 hours of craft time…. It felt like prison. And it started to scare me when I would start picking up habits of others who had been there for months.
It felt demoralizing to go from a Bachelor of Commerce to this. My skills were being wasted, day by day.
I understand it is also my fault for performing well in interviews and not improving make much ground despite efforts over an extended period but it doesn't mean I was lazy, it doesn't mean I didn't try.
Your friend should look at doing a programming course or teach himself from the resources online , c++ or perhaps android/ios and make some apps to sell online…………..
Hopefully it will all work out for him as its obviously harder to find work since the GFC and the shutting down of vehicle manufacturing and all the associated companys.
Try RGIS - casual stock taking jobs, no qualification or experience required. Save some money, get a decent used car and UBER. Or get a license to drive a CAB.
My Indian neighbour who arrived in Australia only few months ago who has a very basic English skill is working in a three different jobs now. So I guess if you are really desperate nothing can stop you.
You know why? Because there is no dole for him.
I'm not saying the dole is bad but it makes people lazy.
supermarket night shift stacker, cleaner, kitchen hand, preferably a job that you can move up.
If I was in his position and no one gave me ANY job, I'd start my own lawn mowing and gardening business.
It cost nothing to register the business, and you can still get the dole while it's not that profitable.
It probably cost nothing to start the business as I have a lawn mower and basic tools.
I'd walk around the neighbourhood and see people with messy lawns, and then explain that you're starting your own business and would they like their lawns mowed and garden weeded at a reasonable price.
I hate mowing the lawn, and if someone came up to offer to mow my lawn for say $25 and take them 30mins, I'd give them a go.
I feel for your friend but there's nothing more demoralising than not having a job, even being a cleaner or menial jobs.
Be a removalist in Metro city,is the easiest way to make money, no qualification needed, you work for yourself, only cost a 2k van and mobile phone.
I feel for your mate, I struggled to find casual/PT work in my student days but at least I could live in the parents' basement so to speak. You can't get a job without experience, you can't get experience without a job, it's a catch 22. If you've never struggled with finding work, I think it's too easy to underestimate how depressing and demoralising the situation is. I even got knocked back by fast food because I was too old / expensive.
For me, obviously the tertiary education pulled through, but I did a lot of meaningful volunteer work that helped me look like a community minded person and gave me useful experience which I could take to the supermarkets, and I did a TAFE course on the side to get some practical training, together which helped me to get entry level office work. Maybe your mate can do TAFE and get study support and do volunteering on the side?
[Deactivated] on 18/06/2015 - 08:55 Comment score below threshold.
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