Qantas Charged Me Business Class End to End Airfare but Put Me on Economy in 1 Leg out of 4. It Is Fair?

Litbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 00:57
Last edited 20/07/2015 - 11:13

Hi First time posting in the forum.
Looking for some advice before I move on (literally) or move on to ACCC.

Without being too lengthy I am summarising in points and removing unimportant details

Case

  • Booked 2 x Business Class from Australia to a Europe City for a business trip on Qantas website.
  • The journey consists of one connection each way with total travel time ~ 48hrs. Let's call the ex-Aust flight Leg 1 and Leg 2 and the return flight Leg 3 Leg 4.
  • Total airfare listed on the chosen departure and return dates is $8800 per head (total airfare per booking is $17k). For comparison sake, the equivlant economy class would cost $2000 for the same dates of travel.
  • There were multiple choices of returning flights on the date I picked. They were all showing ~$4400 for return flight, no matter where they are connected. Since the price listed were about the same I presumed they offer same business class services (note 1)
  • I have picked one out of the about five available choices of returning flights
  • After the booking is confirmed, it confirmed one of the returning flight Leg 3, which has a 7hr flight time, was changed to Economy class. Total price is still the same as $8800 per head.

My Issue

  • I cannot accept why when I picked business class end to end service, willing to pay the precived price difference ($2000 vs $8800) and still end up in economy class for 7 out of 48hrs.
  • From the start, Qantas presents this a Business class service. (If you book on the their website, after you select the date of travel, you need to pick Travel Class and select from Economy, Premium Economy, Business or First Class). While the price they charge reflect Business Class service. Qantas disguise a semi / partial Business Class Service as End-to-end Business class service. Not only that. Qantas charges same price.

What I have done since

  • Attempt to file a email complaint on Qantas website. 2 days later I got a response back only to ask me call the general customer service line 131313
  • And I did. After 54mins of waiting time, I were finally able to talk to an operator and then quickly been referred to a Customer Service Manager.

Qantas's defence

  • Leg 1,2,3 are not operated by Qantas and were with a code-share arrangement. There is no business class on Leg 3 available and Qantas have no control of it
  • There was a warning during booking stating business class in Leg 3 may not be available. And i should have aware of it. Also T&C have them covered and I have agreed with everything during I booked
  • Qantas refused to comment while Leg 3 is being booked as Economy, why its price is the same as Business Class (see above note 1)

Qantas's decision over the phone

  • Allowed me a full refund and re-book (It is a business trip and I cannot do that)
  • Refused my request of a credit of the difference between the Business Class airfare and Economy Class Airfare for Leg 3.
  • I suggested an upgrade of my last leg 4, which is operated by Qantas and in they term, they have full control), to first class as compensation. Qantas refused.

My accusation to Qantas is

  • Qantas did not provide End-to-end Business Class service of what they are charging customer.
  • When Qantas knows customer wants to pay for Business Class Service but it is not available in part of the journey, Qantas could still call it and charge customer "Business class". And this is deceiving..

My question my fellow Ozbargainer are:

  • Do you think Qantas has any foul playing in this situation? Is their T&C (the tiny little box you click before paying) and that little warning during booking overides business common sense and basic consumer right that when people were charged for a full service they should get not a partial service?

If yes. Where should I go next? ACCC? Media?

I am sorry if it is still too lengthy.
Thank you for your comment and advice in advance.

**Update 18/10
- Leg 3 is QF8188, based on planefinder.net , Leg 3 has
Passenger classes
First Class, Economy, Business Class

Travel

Related Stores

Qantas
Qantas

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 18/07/2015 - 01:37
    +6

    Did that 7 hour leg have any business class at all?

    Some flights are economy only, and your ticket should reflect that.

    If the flight did have a business section, and your ticket was for business class on it then you should be compensated.

    • itbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 08:56
      +1

      Thank you for pointing that out. Plainfiner.net shows Leg 3 QF8188 has Business Class

      • zelda707 on 18/07/2015 - 09:05
        +1

        Sounds like business class was booked out so ecconmy was the only option

      • nikey2k27 on 18/07/2015 - 19:28
        +1

        why not just change dates for your return leg or ask for refund to econmney

      • antzz on 21/07/2015 - 02:25
        +3

        Your main mistakes are

        1. Booking Qantas where the service is optional and apologies is surcharge
        2. There are plenty 5 star airlines like SQ if you want to fly business where they treat you as king and desperate for your money
        3. Everytime I fly business I dont book via websites. I call travel agent. The money warrants top service end to end

        To answer your question.

        1. Tell them you want to refund and will rebook with SQ. I think suddenly your 3rd leg will change to business
        • mattp029 on 21/07/2015 - 15:56

          I don't know why this is being downvoted. As a Travel Agent myself I can confirm we don't see prices and flight numbers like you would on the Qantas website, or any other site, we see booking classes. This would have 100% been avoided if booked through an agent as we would have see business class was sold out on this leg.

          What probably has happened is Business Class would have been closed on this plane so this sector would have been upsold to full yield economy, which can be even more pricey than business sometimes.

        • Saiya on 22/07/2015 - 12:00

          What does SQ stand for?

        • RockyRaccoon on 22/07/2015 - 12:20
          +1

          @Saiya: Singapore airlines

          http://www.airlinecodes.co.uk/airlcodesearch.asp

  • John Stone on 18/07/2015 - 01:51
    +33

    I'm not too sure what you expect Qantas to do. They let you know before you booked that the leg was in economy. You didn't read the t&c's. Fair enough, it sometimes happens to the best of us. You contacted Qantas as you should have.

    They offered you a full refund and you refused! I understand that you may not want to take it, but considering it's not exactly their fault you didn't read the terms, i would say that it was a very generous offer from them.

    • itbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 09:13
      +1

      I understand I clicked T&C and I was upfront about I have to travel on those date for business anyway.

      What I really would like to point out is, under Australia Consumer Law, does an Airline quoting customer first/ business class airfare has the right to change part of the trip to a business/economy, without giving "reasonable" notice to customer during booking and without changing the price to reflect such downgrade, and expect customer to consense because a customer click the T&C box?

      Because it that is OK to do. What is it to stop an Airline quoting a First class service and then downgrade a customer to economy for part of the trip and still classify it "First Class" service while booking?

      • Captain Electrode on 21/07/2015 - 21:10

        Working in retail, I'm certain if a retail store were to advertise a product or service in the manner you described, the retail store would be in breach of trade practices for misleading advertising or perhaps even for false advertising.
        I don't know how the laws relate to airlines, but, personally, I would seek advice from whatever your state's equivalent of DOCEP ("Department Of Consumer and Employment Protection" -That's our Western Australian body), is before contacting the ACCC. As far as I understand, the ACCC (federal body)is more to be used as a last resort after seeking legal advice/help from our state government departments.

      • Ughhh on 22/07/2015 - 01:20

        without giving "reasonable" notice to customer during booking

        So did that pop up message informing you about the change appear or not?

        Yes there was a warning. And i am accepting it when it flashed on my screen when I clicked I agree T&C.

        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/203332#comment-2910183

        So, they told you about the problem during your booking, you saw the warning but you chose to ignore it?

      • RockyRaccoon on 22/07/2015 - 12:32

        I dont know if anyone here can really answer you. Guess its up to talking to the ACCC and see what they say.

        The issue you probably face is that the fares change all the time, its not like it's a set price. Like Mattp029 says you have probably been charged already for 3 J class segments and 1 Y Class segment as a package. The price would probably be higher if you were given 4J class segments.

        As they point out if a flight is full then you wont get a cheap fare.

        This is shown when you book any flight and there are other options for that trip.

        eg I booked a flight to LAX from SYD. The morning flight was More expensive than the evening flight. On the return the opposite was true.

        Namely QF17 was cheaper than QF11 but on return QF18 was cheaper than QF12.

        QF12 is the normal return for QF11 - A380 while QF17/18 is the 747 which goes to JFK and stops at LAX

        So even asking for upgrade on one leg doesn't work as thats a different fare.

        In essence your ticket reflects 3 separate fares of Business class and 1 of Economy.

        Alternative is to switch airlines or dates

    • isthisreally_me on 18/07/2015 - 14:44
      +3

      Needs to be said again …

      I'm not too sure what you expect Qantas to do. They let you know before you booked that the leg was in economy. You didn't read the t&c's. Fair enough, it sometimes happens to the best of us. You contacted Qantas as you should have.

      They offered you a full refund and you refused! I understand that you may not want to take it, but considering it's not exactly their fault you didn't read the terms, i would say that it was a very generous offer from them.

      • gimli on 18/07/2015 - 18:13
        +5

        Take it to the high court, may be Justice French can explain things better to the OP…

  • confusedhuh on 18/07/2015 - 02:29

    Presumption is evil my friend.
    Firstly, while booking did you see any warning mentioning Leg 3 might be unavailable for business class ? (From my personal experience airlines do mention that)

    If you did, I dont think you would be able to take Qantas to ACCC. They did say business class might not be available on certain sectors and that is exactly what happened, it was not available.

    To your defence I do agree its a dodgy tactic that they use and at times its not clear as it may come up in small letters not visible but it is what it is.
    Also,They are however giving you a full refund which I believe is fair.

    if you still want to fight, you can complain on twitter or FB or if you a Qantas Gold or Platinum member then use that as a leverage in saying you might take your business somewhere else next time.

    • itbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 09:18

      Thank you I may try Facebook.
      Please see my response to John Stone,

      In my particular case I am not upset at all. I am want to see if it is just me being unreasonable or the booking system is fault. If it is the later, I would like to expose it.

  • [Deactivated] on 18/07/2015 - 02:53
    +23

    I have nothing useful to add at this point.. but I really liked the way you wrote your post. So easy to read and understand. +1

    • itbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 08:48
      +3

      Thank you. Sometimes a post is so hard to understand and I was reluctant to response because of that.

  • sagi446 on 18/07/2015 - 06:02
    +3

    Is it possible that you booked late and the operating airline had sold all of its business seats on that specific flight? Was the partner Emirates? I believe they are known for waiting lists.

    You also did not answer whether that flight actually operated a business class, in some instances, and you can look this up, Qatar Airways operates some regional flights as First/Economy instead of Business/Economy but I think in that case the website should make it clear and has when I was looking up award flights.

    • itbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 10:24

      Thanks for pointing this out. I check and yes it seems it does. Post is now updated.

  • DarkOz on 18/07/2015 - 07:50
    +1

    Sounded like you have a problem with your third leg…

    Qantas's decision over the phone
    1. It's the most fair resolution. Who do you blame if you can't do that?
    2. That depends on the terms and conditions of the booking. It sounds unethical to allow Economy Class to be available for booking when Business Class was paid. Their booking software needs more fine tuning.
    3. First Class - Business Class >>> Business Class - Economy Class. So it's a big no no.

    Take the trip anyway. It seems like you have no choice for it being a business trip. After the trip, follow up on their booking system which allowed this to happen to seek if it's acceptable for it to accept bookings the way it is.

    • [Deactivated] on 18/07/2015 - 09:45
      +11

      Sound like you have a problem with your third leg…

      Don't we all? :b

    • itbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 10:26
      +1
      1. Yes. I don't blame them
      2. Thank you DarkOz. This is exactly I tried to point out.
      3. Well I know. I was trying to propose a resolution that I could accept. And Qantas refused to give in anything except refund. Again I can't blame this decision.
    • Maverick-au on 19/07/2015 - 07:25
      +2
      1. That depends on the terms and conditions of the booking. It sounds unethical to allow Economy Class to be available for booking when Business Class was paid. Their booking software needs more fine tuning.

      The booking software is fine and it works the same way on all other websites, search tools and airlines. It clearly tells you that one leg is going to be in a different class.

      • sal78 on 19/07/2015 - 11:21
        +2

        then the price should be a bit cheaper. this is ozbargainafter all

  • bozbargain on 18/07/2015 - 08:10

    Frustrating and I agree it's confusing how Qantas present the different classes in their search results, same if you want to book with points. Can't you go for the refund and then go with Etiahd for half the price (see deal posted yesterday)?

    • itbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 10:28

      Business travel. Dates are set. Can't do it.

  • Schezwon on 18/07/2015 - 08:59
    +1

    They should give you back the difference or why don't you book another airline? Now i know why Qantas is going down in customer service.

    • Maverick-au on 19/07/2015 - 12:25

      They should give you back the difference or why don't you book another airline? Now i know why Qantas is going down in customer service.

      They have already offered him a full refund. All airlines work in the same way, he choose to accept an economy seat so why you are you blaming Qantas when they are not at fault?

  • DarkOz on 18/07/2015 - 09:13
    +1

    **Update 18/10
    - Leg 3 is QF8188, based on planefinder.net , Leg 3 has
    Passenger classes
    First Class, Economy, Business Class

    Then how the fk did you get Economy Class for this leg? Is it a booking system glitch?

    • [Deactivated] on 18/07/2015 - 09:50
      +1

      Business class must be fully booked for that leg.

      • itbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 10:30
        +2

        I can accept that. But I booked business class to start with and expected business class end to end. So if Qantas knows one leg is not business, should they remove the result from the search at all?

        • DarkOz on 18/07/2015 - 11:01
          +10

          I must agree with you on this one. If Business Class was full then that flight should not be available to the customers who had paid Business Class. Even if some customers are willing to compromise there should be a warning to the customers and prompt them for their acceptance.

          Leg 1: Selected. Go to Leg 2.
          Leg 2: Selected. Go to Leg 3.
          Leg 3: Selected.
          *** WARNING ***.
          LEG 3 BUSINESS CLASS FULL.
          DO YOU WISH TO ACCEPT ECONOMY CLASS WHEN YOU HAVE PAID BUSINESS CLASS?
          [I ACCEPT] / [I DECLINE]

          Wasn't there any clear warnings? If not, that booking system needs fine tuning. I suppose they rather pay a cheap IT tech a few hundred bucks to fix it than looking after their customer which was victimised.

        • Maverick-au on 19/07/2015 - 07:29
          +3

          @DarkOz:

          Leg 1: Selected. Go to Leg 2.
          Leg 2: Selected. Go to Leg 3.
          Leg 3: Selected.
          *** WARNING ***.
          LEG 3 BUSINESS CLASS FULL.
          DO YOU WISH TO ACCEPT ECONOMY CLASS WHEN YOU HAVE PAID BUSINESS CLASS?
          [I ACCEPT] / [I DECLINE]

          Wasn't there any clear warnings? If not, that booking system needs fine tuning. I suppose they rather pay a cheap IT tech a few hundred bucks to fix it than looking after their customer which was victimised.

          LOL their customer was victimised! It clearly tells you that one of the legs is going to be in another class before you book the flight. All websites, search tools and airlines operate in the same way yet you don't see thousands of people complaining about this "problem".

          The customer was not victimised but booked a flight they didn't meet their needs and Qantas have agreed to a full refund which is pretty good of them given they don't have to do anything.

        • bragains on 20/07/2015 - 10:21
          +1

          @DarkOz:

          When a leg is in a class other than the expected booking class, there's a small (i) symbol next to the fare you select and also another reminder in red backgound and white foreground text, reminding of you so.

          And then you'll have a chance to review your flights before booking.

          My guess is OP completely missed all of the above, I think this is buyer's remorse for not checking tickets properly before hitting Confirm.

  • elvino on 18/07/2015 - 09:18
    +14

    I book Qantas international regularly, and this can catch a few people out. But they have been adding a warning on the booking "warning, one leg of this journey is in a different class". Typically this is in Orange or red bold.
    Most of the time the economy legs are through/from Dubai.
    QF8818 as you mention above is a flight from Saudi-Dubai - is that correct? If so, it's only a 2 hour flight, not 7.

    I think this is a case of checking before you book, and if you're unsure, call them. I think Qantas have been generous with a full refund offering, given the mistake was not theirs.
    Yes it' could be seen as a ploy by airlines to disguise the economy leg, but if I'm spending $9k of anyone's money, I'm making damn sure it's the right flight.

    • [Deactivated] on 18/07/2015 - 09:58
      +3

      ^^ this . It happens all the time. Take the refund and make another booking , if your dates are flexible.Otherwise, well, you'll have to put up with it :(

      • modsec802 on 18/07/2015 - 10:13
        -1

        Yes, I've seen this warning multiple times. It's very clear when booking so it's the OP's fault. Live and learn.

        • McFly on 18/07/2015 - 19:48
          +2

          Even if the warning is clear, there is no possible justification for charging business class rates for that leg!

    • itbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 10:21
      -8

      QF8188 is from Barcelona to Dubai. So it is 6:55 flight time.

      Yes there was a warning. And i am accepting it when it flashed on my screen when I clicked I agree T&C.

      Pls see my concerns in my reply to John Stone and confusedhuh.

      I just hope that I didn't agree to also sell my soul (if any) in T&C.

      • [Deactivated] on 18/07/2015 - 11:35

        my soul (if any)

        Souls are overrated anyway :b

      • bragains on 20/07/2015 - 10:23
        +1

        You accepted it…

        • misterpotatomato on 22/07/2015 - 12:40

          That said, he can't waive his rights that he has as a consumer under Fair Trading provisions. So, they could still be liable.

  • Randxyz123 on 18/07/2015 - 09:51

    This happens all the time. When you book it will tell you if one leg is in economy.

    This often happens on Australia to the US to places like New York if you go Melbourne or Sydney or where ever to LAX in Business often the flight to NYC is in economy.

    EDIT:

    Whoops… Misread…. They changed you to Economy?

    It's probably due to a change in the aircraft and something hidden deep in the T & Cs. Try posting on their facebook page and see if they can help.

    • modsec802 on 18/07/2015 - 10:14
      +5

      Whoops… Misread…. They changed you to Economy?

      No, they didn't change OP to economy. He chose an economy flight.

      There was a warning during booking stating business class in Leg 3 may not be available.

      • itbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 12:44
        -3

        I did not choose to go economy willingly. If I would accept economy class I would not have starting the booking with Business class.

        During the booking there were a refreash of webpage with one warning before you click agree to T&C and confirm. You can blame me for confirming the order. But this is not what I want to discuss here.

        Please see my other responses for my intention.

        • modsec802 on 18/07/2015 - 12:56
          +11

          The post makes it sound like you booked business but they changed you to economy.

          You inadvertently booked economy for one leg despite the warnings.

        • Jackson on 18/07/2015 - 23:08
          +2

          @juicedpixels: this is what he is complaining about though. He clicks business, then misses the warning and gets economy for the same price as business. It's a fair complaint, most would expect that it wouldn't show up as an option if you are selecting business, not show up and then warn you. And in the case it does you would think it would not charge for business for that leg but it does. The Op doesn't need you to tell him this, he understands that, he just wants to know if he has any recourse.

          Let's say he was buying a 64gb class 10 sd and the site tells him it's in stock, and then at checkout there was a warning saying he is actually getting 2 x 32gb sds because there is no stock of 64gb cards, and he clicked ok without reading it. Fair trading would say that's dodgy, and the stock shouldn't show up if it's not there. They would order that he can have his choice of a 64gb card or refund. Say they can't get any more 64gb cards, so he asks for a 64gb eve or higher special card. The vendor doesn't want to give it to him, so he goes to fair trading and asks them to order the vendor to fix the problem. This isn't a far fetched circumstance, if you don't believe me check the HP Slate book 14 thread a little while ago. It's considered a firm of bait advertising, and there can be heavy penalties.

          Qantas obviously don't want to worry about it so they offered a full refund, but as that doesn't help op he has made a request that most likely can't be fulfilled without a higher authority. This I think is the main barrier to him getting his proposed resolution.

        • sal78 on 19/07/2015 - 11:26
          -1

          @Jackson: a few $$ can accept but a 7 hr flight is abig difference in flught between business and economy. He should at least be refunded for the difference on that leg. Qantas is crazy to treat business class passengers like this. Corporate is big part of their business.

        • abh_gup on 21/07/2015 - 00:42

          @Jackson: very well outlined and clarified @Jackson

  • captobvious on 18/07/2015 - 14:11

    This has happened to me aswell for a trip overseas. I just didnt check the fine details of a stopover. The onwards flight was an economy only seat but the rest of the trip was business. I mentioned to the nice lady at the qantas business lounge, she said that was the ticket rules for that leg. She then checked and upgraded me to first class for the return leg.

    Always pays to ask and be friendly.

    I'm not an economy snob, I actually dont mind economy as its cost effective, just sometimes it's good to have a good nights sleep before hitting the floor running at the other end. I was pretty shagged that trip and the panadol and 5 coffees didnt help me at all

    • itbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 15:37
      +2

      Thanks for the advice. I will ask nicely in the return trip, set my expectation low and hope for the best.

      • captobvious on 18/07/2015 - 15:44
        +1

        no worries, the ladies are hit and miss most of the times but hopefully you get a nice one and it all works out. :-)

  • devnull73 on 18/07/2015 - 14:16
    -7

    Straight to ACCC mate. Theyll sort it.

  • chillin222 on 18/07/2015 - 14:28

    Emirates 777 business is very average. Are you sure you don't want to get a refund and fly with SQ or another better airline?

    Secondly, in the airline world, business class does not refer to the aeroplane seat, but rather a whole suite of hard and soft benefits. On many routes you can book a business class fare and yet fly in an economy seat. You still get the booking flexibility, lounge access, priority check-in etc.

    Lastly, are you ticketed in business for that 3rd leg or in economy (what's the letter? Y?)

    • itbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 15:46

      Status of all legs
      Leg 1 Business (I)
      Leg 2 business (I)
      Leg 3 Economy (Y)
      Leg 4 Business (D)

  • thecraw on 18/07/2015 - 14:56
    +2

    Edit: anaannndddd….misread like others :P…thought it was an overboooking scenario..

  • airzone on 18/07/2015 - 18:16
    +2

    Not that it will help, but I had a similar situation happen to me on Qantas - Syd - Sin - Bne - Syd.. The Bne to Syd was domestic operated by Jetstar - which given that it was a last minute business flight, OK. Flight was late leaving Singapore and landed in Sydney with about 10 minutes to deboard, customs, luggage, check-in, etc. I expected that Qantas would just rebook me the next available flight. I didn't expect them to tell me that the Jetstar flight is out of their control and I would have to deal with Jetstar, and their flights are strictly point to point and I lost my seat. So I got stuck in Brisbane for about 12 hours, had to buy a new ticket to Sydney, and nothing by way of apology or compensation.

    The only reason I picked Qantas for that trip was because Singapore Air was already booked out. I normally wouldn't use them otherwise because despite the premium price, you normally receive a sub-par product.

    • McFly on 18/07/2015 - 19:56

      Flight was late leaving Singapore and landed in…

      Brisbane, no?

      And I assume you booked everything via Qantas?

      • airzone on 18/07/2015 - 22:08

        Lol indeed, landed in Brisbane.

        Yes, Qantas ticket and flight number.

  • Oliver on 18/07/2015 - 19:09
    -2

    Advice / Advise. Learn the difference.

  • Zum on 18/07/2015 - 19:23

    Sorry, I can't be bothered reading the whole thread so apologies if this has been said before.

    On some routes aircraft are substituted by the code share carrier without the knowledge of the ticket seller. For any number of reasons they regularly substitue an aircraft onto the route and that aircraft does NOT have business class seats.

    To give you the 'chance' of getting an all the way business class journey they booked and charged you a business class fare and had good intentions of business class all the way however the code share carriers seems to have swapped aircraft on the day and you could not be offered business class because there was no business class on the aircraft.

    I might be wrong, hope this helps.

    • itbargainhunter on 18/07/2015 - 21:54
      +1

      Should I be refund the price difference between business class and economy class for this leg if it is the case?

      Also with this logic, an airline can charge a customer for business class airfare end to end and provide only a portion (in my case, 88% of total flight time) of business class seat and service?

      • McFly on 19/07/2015 - 08:36
        +1

        Yes!

        Charging for business class for the whole journey in this case is an undeniable rip-off. I don't know what makes them think they can get away with this.

  • stringbean402 on 19/07/2015 - 00:01
    +11

    You were offered a full refund of your booking. You cannot expect anything more under law. Take it or leave it. END OF DISCUSSION

  • JimB on 19/07/2015 - 00:24
    +2

    I don't think you'll get much sympathy here.

    They can't create an extra seat and have offered you a refund.

    Sounds reasonable to me.

    I've only flown business class internationally once when I got upgraded. Fantastic, but I wouldn't have paid for the privilege with my own money nor would 99.9% of ozbargainer. I would and have used the difference to stay in luxury hotels as I think it's worth it.

  • tomwood on 19/07/2015 - 01:24
    +1

    What do you mean the dates are set so you can't book other flights or on another airline? Are there no other flights available at all that would be suitable on any airline for a not too dissimilar price??

  • Jaskie on 19/07/2015 - 01:40
    +5

    Whilst I certainly do sympathise with your predicament, it would have been pretty hard to miss this when booking. When you book on Qantas' website they generally have an exclamation point that says "part of this journey is in economy" or something on those lines.

    They've been very generous in offering you a refund, which is the most you can expect in this situation. The fact that it is Emirates metal well mean they have no say in the matter. Sorry to hear about the situation mate, but the onus is on you here for not fully reading what you were signing up for.

  • scheps on 19/07/2015 - 11:03

    Sorry way too much to read however here are my 2c.

    1. If booking originally contained Business class for every leg and subsequently changed without notifying the OP then that is clearly wrong. However, QF often have business class tickets without full business class legs. They don't make it very obviously however but the sign is there. I wonder how OP found out eventually that the 3rd leg was a problem.

    2. Offering full refund (depending on timing) obviously can be problematic. e.g. if i booked 350 days out, on a sale, the ticket is much cheaper than closer to the date of travel. So a full refund can potentially put the OP further out of pocket.

    3. Creating seats. They can definitely do that, by bumping someone else. But you will need to be a high value customer for them to do that.

  • Foxtail on 19/07/2015 - 12:15

    This problem has been around for years on QF, miss it and your done for, getting a refund grab it with both hands.

  • raptormesh on 19/07/2015 - 17:47

    This is not all that uncommon. The reason why business and first class still sells(although their demand is faltering in an economic downturn) is that most are purchased on a company account and/or via FF points. In the current way airlines and alliances are being run, everything is very tight especially in multi sector routes A plane going tech(that is, they have to check and repair any faults) can and will affect plane availability and schedules although mainline carriers such as QF and EK should have one or two reserve planes in their major hubs.

    I think I ranted but, the best you can do in my experience is to be nice to the check in staff and they may upgrade you especially if you have status with them. Other than refund and rebook there isn't much you can do. Sorry for repeating what other may have said above, and safe travels.

  • t_c on 19/07/2015 - 19:42
    +2

    Why don't you cancel and book a private helicopter learjet. :p

    • evol on 20/07/2015 - 01:40
      +9

      Wow what a whinger. What are you going to do next, call A Current Affair and say you've been "scammed"?

      There is a bold notice and icon in the Qantas booking process that tells you when one or more of your segments is in a different class (usually due to capacity constraints or aircraft model used). There is also a summary page that clearly tells you the class of travel for each segment in plain English BEFORE you accept T&C's and submit payment.

      You obviously didn't care to read those pages carefully, accepted all the T&C's and handed over your $8800. You are 100% at fault.

      QANTAS offer of 100% refund is above and beyond what they are required to do. Your demand to be upgraded to First on the return leg is a joke.

      There is absolutely no "baiting" going on at all. Bait and switch would imply that Qantas sold you a ticketed itinerary that says "Business" on all segments then downgraded you to Economy later without any refund or adjustment.

      Suck it up and read better next time, or pay someone else to book your tickets for you to prevent embarrassments like this.

      • Ughhh on 20/07/2015 - 02:01
        +2

        I guess its Qantas' fault for assuming people can read.
        Hopefully after this, Qantas won't make every single customer click through 50 colourful pop ups informing them of the booking issue, like in the damn Rick Rolls.

        • Clementt on 20/07/2015 - 02:35
          +4

          I think what the OP is trying to get the message across is should a reputable company like Qantas charge customers premium fees but offered economy class even thou it was listed in T&C? Is this fair and reasonable conduct?

          For me, I would expect Qantas to adjust the 3rd leg trip to economy fees automatically since Qantas did not have business class available. The OP probably accepted the economy class but didn't expect to pay the third leg for business class fees. It is the same circumstances as overcharging you in a restaurant for prawns but with lobster price when they ran out of lobster and they did notify you will be serve with prawns. You guys are saying, it is your fault for eating that prawns when they told you the lobster are sold out so paid up the lobster price, tough luck.

          But then again what do I know, never been in a business class or first class. The best I ever did was got upgraded to Premium Economy on boarding time and I was like jumping around screaming until I arrived at my seats and notice no difference with the economy class.

        • sal78 on 20/07/2015 - 13:47
          +2

          @Clementt: thank you. that's exactly how I see it. Eventhough they may be covered, that's really dodgy. That's a lot of money.. perhaps they think ppl that can afford business or companies are less likely to kick up a fuss.

    • [Deactivated] on 20/07/2015 - 06:36
      +3

      If you have so much money to spend, why not just fly economy and donate $7,000 to charity instead of to your airline?

      Wait, do you actually believe that people who have [presumably worked very hard for their] great amount of monetary wealth are expected to be more altruistic/selfless/generous/humble than people who have less money to spend?

      If the OP has enough money to freely spend on luxuries without causing issues to themselves financially, what's to be questioned about them opting for something in the luxury category for their own enjoyment rather than basically suffering in economy class? (c'mon, have you ever flown Business Class before? And Economy? The difference is huge comfort wise. Economy ain't glorious lol if you had the cash to throw around, would you seriously go "hmm, nah.."?)

      Don't get me wrong, I understand your point. Values wise, it sounds wonderful, and yes it does logically sound like a complete waste to spend SUCH a huge amount on a chair which is going the exact same place as the far, far cheaper seat. We all cope and it doesn't make life any more horrendous to endure in the long run. etc etc. I'm pro-money saving too, so I get it.

      But to seemingly have a different attitude towards someone and their personal choices like that, as if they should conform to a different set of rules to people in a different financial position.. that strikes me as bizarre. Almost as if to suggest or imply that the wealthy don't deserve to enjoy the fruits of their hard work and their hedonism is a bad or foolish thing? Let them enjoy it :S

    • TailsK on 20/07/2015 - 09:13
      +1

      If you have so much money to spend, why not just fly economy and donate $7,000 to charity instead of to your airline?

      If it is a business trip, and his employer is paying, it may be that they have a policy requiring business class travel when you are travelling over X hours.

      • swiggity swag on 21/07/2015 - 00:40

        If his employer is paying, why does he care that the 3rd leg was charged at the business class rate?

        • TailsK on 21/07/2015 - 08:05

          Reading between the lines, I don't actually think he cares about the price. He thought he booked business class flights for his entire trip, and in the end, that's not the case.

  • lucashearne on 20/07/2015 - 01:50

    I think Qantas have done the wrong thing. I'm guessing Qantas didn't intentionally over charge you, but that doesn't stop them intentionally fixing the problem.

    A few years ago my dad booked first class using qantas frequent flier points. He actually flew with cathay pacific (a Qantas partner). The flight was Melbourne to Singapore and then to usa somewhere (I can't remember exactly where).

    The plane from Melbourne to Singapore didn't have a first class section, even though he used a huge number of frequent flier points to book that flight.

    When he arrived in Singapore, he was surprised to be met by someone from cathay pacific who handed him an envelope of cash, to refund the price difference in his ticket. He was surprised and a bit confused since he didn't actually pay for the ticket. He was also very happy and told the story hundreds of times lol.

  • TailsK on 20/07/2015 - 09:07
    +7

    Another person with a grandiose sense of entitlement complaining about nothing on the OzBargain forums. A couple of points for you to consider:

    • You are paying for an entire trip, not each individual leg. "Qantas disguise a semi / partial Business Class Service as End-to-end Business class service. Not only that. Qantas charges same price." Did you actually try to book each leg individually?
    • "Attempt to file a email complaint on Qantas website." What do you mean "attempted"? You filed it, they got back to you, and requested you speak to someone so they could handle the issue at hand personally.
    • "There was a warning during booking stating business class in Leg 3 may not be available." How can they make it clearer to you?
    • You were offered a full refund. Rather than accepting it, you made the decision not to accept the refund. What does it matter if it's a business trip? Why not go with another carrier?

    What exactly are your expectations of Qantas? How could they have handled the situation better?

    • modsec802 on 20/07/2015 - 09:17
      +6

      I think the OP just wants a free first class upgrade which isn't going to happen, especially considering it's EK metal

      • TailsK on 20/07/2015 - 09:18

        EK metal?

        • modsec802 on 20/07/2015 - 09:22

          Qantas ticket on an Emirates (EK) plane

    • McFly on 20/07/2015 - 12:53
      +2

      What exactly are your expectations of Qantas?

      I would think what any normal person and the law would expect - to not be charged for something that is not being provided. Specifically, not being charged a business class fare for an economy seat - for any or all legs.
      It's not aeronautical science!

      • TailsK on 20/07/2015 - 12:58

        The law? What "law" has been broken? Consumer law? He was warned that not all legs may be business class. On top of that, Qantas offered to remedy the situation by refunding his flight in full.

        For all any of us know, the $4,400 did factor in that not all legs were business class. Or are you saying he should be paying economy for the whole trip because one of the legs was not business class?

        • McFly on 20/07/2015 - 13:10

          For all any of us know, the $4,400 did factor in that not all legs were business class.

          It certainly doesn't sound like it. If that is the case then I see no problem here.

          Or are you saying he should be paying economy for the whole trip because one of the legs was not business class?

          Of course not.

  • onlyletters on 20/07/2015 - 09:51
    +1

    "Leg 1,2,3 are not operated by Qantas and were with a code-share arrangement. There is no business class on Leg 3 available and Qantas have no control of it"

    so you should have not been charged for business for those legs of the flight, plain and simple

    • McFly on 20/07/2015 - 12:54

      Blindingly obvious, yet people here - of all places - are happy to get ripped of in this way (or at least for someone else to be!)

      • TailsK on 20/07/2015 - 13:01
        +1

        You're confusing getting ripped off with not paying attention. Again, OP was given the opportunity to cancel his flight and receive a refund.

        • McFly on 20/07/2015 - 13:09
          +1

          No I'm not. I don't know how much more obvious it could be.

          4 business class legs = 4 business class charges = everybody happy
          3 business + 1 economy legs = 3 business charges + 1 economy charge = everybody happy
          3 business + 1 economy legs = 4 business class charges = rip-off!

          "But Qantas offered a full refund!" people are saying.
          How charitable of them to (probably illegally) over-charge, offer a refund (which all business fares are eligible for anyway), and keep over-charging!

        • TailsK on 20/07/2015 - 13:19
          +1

          @McFly:
          Like I said in my first post, it sounds like OP was paying for a trip, not each leg individually. A trip is often cheaper than buying each leg individually. It is a package price for a series of flights. If OP thinks he is being ripped off, take the refund and book each leg individually, and see if it's cheaper. It's simple.

        • onlyletters on 20/07/2015 - 13:54
          +1

          @TailsK: doesn't matter, you dont charge someone business class if your not getting business class.

        • TailsK on 20/07/2015 - 14:15
          +1

          @eXtremist:

          $4,400 return, for business class to anywhere in Europe seems insanely cheap, let alone four legs. Doesn't sound like he was being charged business class for the whole trip!

        • onlyletters on 20/07/2015 - 14:18

          @TailsK: regardless of the price, if they said business class for the whole trip then he should be flying business class.

          they are offering a refund but OP doesn't want it, this whole thread doesn't make sense lol

        • TailsK on 20/07/2015 - 15:17
          +2

          @eXtremist:

          Unless OP just decided to ignore the warning when he booked his ticket. ;)

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