Discussion: Who's at Fault?

This didn't happen to me. I only came across it in another forum and wanted to see what do you guys think. Who's at fault in this collision?

http://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/12716/34349/20151017_74…

My first instinct told me that Car B was wrong, as we always need to giveway to cars from the right. However, people did argue that he didn't make any mistake for staying in the left lane before and after the turn.

What're your thoughts, OzBargainers?

Poll Options

  • 302
    Car A
  • 119
    Car B
  • 26
    Both Cars

Comments

  • +26

    Must give way to any traffic already in the roundabout. However car A is a nitwit for changing lanes mid roundabout. Technically Icar B is at fault. Personally I think Car A is at fault.

    • +4

      the picture shows , both cars are on the round about , in different lanes , car b enters in the outer lane, car a merges into the outer lane AFTER car b is already on the roundabout in his lane, you are not shown the timing of entry or the position of the cars on impact , so you can only judge the case on assumptions.

      • +3

        If you look at the arrows car A is about to enter the roundabout whereas car B is further away. From the picture you would assume car A enters the roundabout first.

        • +2

          yes but he has to travel on the roundabout , its not against any road rules to enter the outer lane of a roundabout while someones on the inner lane…
          car b could enter the roundabout later but still be ahead or next to car a. like i said we are all making assumptions , but it is not against any road rules to enter a roundabouts outer lane while someone is on the inner lane, thus its all about the timing/position at the point of impact.

        • +13

          @Settero: Agreed although if an accident occurs this

          Vehicles entering a roundabout must give way to any vehicle already in the roundabout

          Takes precedence

        • @Settero: actually there is a rule that when entering traffic from a side street you need to wait for the nearest 2 lanes to be clear before entering traffic. Not sure where it's written down though, it was just something I learned during driver education.

        • @Settero: "its not against any road rules to enter the outer lane of a roundabout while someones on the inner lane…"

          Is there really no rule against this? Because this situation shows that that there should be a rule. Even if Car A was ignorant in changing lanes whilst leaving the roundabout, Car B should still have waited as Car A was approaching on his right and already in the roundabout.

        • +1

          @gokhanh:

          Is there really no rule against this?

          No rule. Same as turning left into the left lane when there are cars in the right lane.
          It's perfectly legal to do and should be encouraged to enhance traffic flow.

      • The picture supplied by WHO though??

        *Car A might say that Car B was speeding and that he was on the roundabout first
        THEN CarB has to give way to Car A
        *Car B might say they were already on the roundabout, THEN Car A has to give way to Car B

        Who to believe?
        Are there witnesses? How credible are they?
        Where are the collision points?
        What is the extent of the damage?
        You say they didn't indicate, they say they did - who to believe??
        Would there be contributory liability?

        I think most insurance companies won't bother to do their research unless the damage is significant. How is some call centre person overseas going to know?
        You pay that premium, tell them the other guy is wrong, they get a version saying fault unclear or you're at fault, you pay your excess and feel jilted..

    • +1

      https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B90aBBkpJZ8tdnJ1NHE2U184Zms…

      I put red dots to where each car is likely to be before the collision. Car A would be at fault for not making sure it was safe to change lanes.

    • WRONG! He switched lanes mid-way. This happened to me once and almost got clipped by Car A.

    • +2

      "Give way to all vehicles on a roundabout" is one traffic concept I think many people seem to misinterpret.
      People seem to focus all the importance on "all vehicles", forgetting what "give way" really means.

      Imagine you are at a T intersection, waiting on the side road to turn onto a road with 2 (or more) lanes each direction. If someone was approaching in the farthest (from you) lane while you were turning into the nearest lane, and you wait for them to pass, you aren't giving way, you are just waiting unnecessarily. You could turn out without collision, provided the driver passing car didn't change to the nearest lane as you turned onto the road.

      The same applies to roundabouts. Car B can, by definition, only give way to vehicles in the outer lane. Car A was in the inner lane but changed lanes at the end and, as there is likely a rule on not changing lanes on roundabouts, and thus Car B would be at fault.

    • +1

      However if car A was a truck over 7.5m car B would be at fault, as you are allowed to take up more then 1 lane whilst turning legally.

    • Car B didn't have to give way because Car A wasn't in the lane he is going to occupy. That is why lanes are marked on roundabouts, to allow more traffic through with both lanes.

  • +11

    Car A is at fault. Car A should exit the same lane they entered (this being the centre lane)

    • +1

      If Car A was indicating left to exit the roundabout, it could also be assumed that Car A was indicating to change lanes inside the roundabout

      • No, you must give indicator to exit the roundabout which has more than 2 lanes. Vehicle A must exit from the same lane it entered.

        • +3

          You must indicate to exit every roundabout, either one OR two lanes, unless it's impractical to do so.

          Vehicle A is not forced to exit the roundabout in the same lane as the one it entered in. You are permitted to change lanes in a multi-lane roundabout, and usual rules of right of way applies here (NSW).

        • @victorwilson: As far as I know, this is different in QLD.

      • +12

        You can not change lane inside a roundabout, nor can you do so within an intersection.

        • sometimes you have no choice, as the roads are designed this way

          https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Morshead+Dr,+Canberra+A…

          A driver heading north on monaro highway who wants to turn right on morshead drive, can only do so starting from the right lane on entry, but must cross to the left lane on the roundabout on exit. Cars on the western end of morshead drive have to give way, and would be at fault if there was an accident

          This is just one example. There are many in the ACT as Canberra is dotted with roundabouts

        • @argamond: It looks like left lane on entry must turn left, therefore the left lane disappear after the first exit and right lane becomes the onlt lane in that section of roundabout. Then after the morsehead entry, it becomes two lane again, and the old right lane becomes the left lane as a new lane emerges on the right.

          Although driver turning right enters the roundabout on the right lane and exit on the left lane, there is no lane changing during the whole roundabout as he is not forced to cross any line, therefore if everyone follows the arrows marked on the entries, there should be no confusions at all imo.

    • +1

      Not in South Australia. The rational given by the Officer on the local 891 a few weeks back was that car A may be intending to make a left turn on the road he entered on leaving the roundabout. I learnt to drive in N.Z., and have slowly got used to S.A. drivers inability to cope with and stay in a lane only 1 meter wider that a Kiwi unsealed 80 KPH dual-lane winding hilly country road when making a right hand turn.
      Car A would, however, now be judged partially at fault had they not been indicating a left turn after passing the first road on the left - it was the case that we didn't need to indicate if we were going straight ahead, but that has now changed to bring the rules in line with "National Standards [tm].

      • +5

        In SA you must be in the lane you intend to exit the roundabout when you enter.
        http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/road-rules/the-drivers-handbook/r…
        you can't change lanes while in a roundabout in SA as it means your indicating (as you should when changing lanes) two different actions. Exiting in a different lane to which you enter is illegal in SA. They call it "fail to enter rondabout from correct lane" in legislation ARR 111(1) cops a $342 fine and 3 demerit points in SA.
        http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/road-rules/offences-and-penalties

        • You're right, that's what it says. I'd drive according to that ruling - the scary thing is that is was either Constable Paul Child or an officer who had taken his place, on 891, who pointed out a short while back that S.A. drivers are now obliged to signal when they leave the roundabout even when they are going straight ahead [contrary to what that says]on the single lane roundabout, so I was considering it as an intersection. Then agan, the lane-chaning is legitimate in a turn - but not when going straight ahead.
          If I had someone else s money to spend, it'd be amusing to observe what the local courts would do with someone arguing that changing lanes going from King William St to King William Road occurred during a "turn onto another road". They would be more than happy to take a fine for >60KPH if the sign was missing…

        • +2

          @terrys:
          It's little known or recognised in my experience to indicate when exiting no matter the direction you're heading. I was taught this many moons ago when i learnt to drive,prob more as a courtesy, also heard it on the radio several times too over the years, had a mate get booked for it back in the day.
          Its amazing how ignorant people are of the road rules especially as they can change so frequently and few people actually pay attention when they do. Driving is like a job you don't stop learning just because you got your licence, rules change.

    • +5

      You can change lanes in a roundabout, but only when safe to do so.

      "Drivers may change lanes in a roundabout if they wish. The usual road
      rules for changing lanes apply. Drivers must use their indicator and give
      way to any vehicle in the lane they are entering." - http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/safety-rules/nsw-r…

      Car A is still at fault.

      • Wow. As someone who has never changed lanes in a roundabout that seems rather stupid. I've also always indicated on exit so how could someone entering a roundabout tell when I am exiting or changing lanes… wow.

        • It can be useful if you're turning left onto a road (so you have to enter the roundabout in the left lane) but need to make a right turn just after the roundabout or vice versa.

          The only time I do it is on a large, unusal roundabout where there is an entry, an exit then an extra lane. People entering expect me to be exiting so they give way.

        • The point is you are at least indicating, giving others some warning that your intention is to change lanes, whether it to be to exit or continue in the roundabout.

          The problem and the cause of this issue is (us all) taking the most direct path through each roundabout- especially when it appears there is no other traffic about: Hence driving straight through roundabouts and changing lanes with no notice even if you do manage a solitary flash of the indicator. so as not to let people think you are turning hard left rather than going straight through!

          Compounded as bad habits form on top of that, compounds with impatience, competition between inexperienced drivers etc. Eventually everyone does it whilst there is other traffic about, all the time.

          Then we get all cocky and drive too damn fast and eventually collide with someone who is slower on the uptake than the average drivers we get used to. I suspect in this instance the fault lies with the location of the damage on the car (eg is the damage ahead or behind the b pillar on car A) as is the rule of thumb with insurance companies, IIRC.

          Rule of thumb here is simple: be careful at roundabouts. There is a reason that race tracks do not incorporate the damn things, let alone traffic lights and other junctions. Avoiding the temptation to touch the inner burm or change lanes just before exit will force you to go slow enough for other drivers of any age to react in time. If they do not, it will be their fault. If you let your inner rear wheel ride the burm regularly you are cutting the corner for because you drive too fast or can't turn your wheel for some reason probably just laziness- unless your vehicle is >6m long).

          In this case, I think you will find the person at fault is both unless there is clear evidence which one was going too fast to avoid the impact- as this trumps any 'excuse' for becoming involved in a collision.

    • If the roundabout has 2 lanes (as drawn) then how can you exit from the center lane without crossing to the outside lane.
      To impact both cars were inside the round-about so the give way to cars already in doesn't apply and A was changing lanes so A is at fault.
      In SA it's cut and dried, you must stay in the lane in which you entered (else if A is indicating to change lanes how would B know that A's indication was not to exit the round about in the "middle" lane).
      Clearly, here in SA, A is at fault.

    • Deleting this comment

  • +1

    This in NSW

    http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/roun…

    Giving way

    Approaching a roundabout: Vehicles entering a roundabout must give way to any vehicle already in the roundabout.

    Giving way at a roundabout: means the driver must slow down and if necessary, stop to avoid a collision.

    When entering, you must give way to all vehicles, including bicycles, already on the roundabout. So slow down or stop if necessary. Only enter when there is a safe gap.

    • +6

      Based on the diagram it appears that Car B had already entered the roundabout when car A decided to change lanes. At that time Car A needed to give way to Car B but apparently it didn't and thus caused a crash as both cars exited the roundabout.

      Under the NSW road rules the lanes are "marked lanes" and therefore Car A failed in it's duty to give way when changing lanes, even though it was changing lanes in a roundabout. Car A may have also failed to indicate this change of lanes. Settero has provided a good link below which affirms that Car A needed to give way when changing lanes in a roundabout.

      If it was in QLD then it's exactly the same:

      In some cases on a multi-lane roundabout, it may be necessary to change lanes before exiting. If you are changing lanes you must give way to vehicles in the lane you are moving to.

      http://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/rules/road/roundabout…

      TL;DR: Car A clearly changed lanes without giving way to Car B, which had already entered the roundabout.

      • +1

        This is the key point that people are missing.
        If Car B has entered the roundabout safely as the graphic appears to show, then car A has collided with it, and it's no different to a car changing lanes into you on a straight road.

  • +4

    Assuming A was already in the roundabout B is at fault irrespective of whether A changed lanes or not. This is for 2 reasons:

    1. A was already in the roundabout
    2. A is on the right side of B
    • +3

      Changing lanes in a roundabout
      Drivers may change lanes in a roundabout if they wish. The usual road
      rules for changing lanes apply. Drivers must use their indicator and give
      way to any vehicle in the lane they are entering.

      http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/safety-rules/nsw-r…

      shows otherwise. i say from the picture , car a is at fault.

      • fair point, but I think B should not have entered the roundabout since A was already in it.

        and since its legal for A to change lanes while he is already in the roundabout only adds to the fact that B is at fault

        • Problem with changing lanes while exiting is its is two actions at once, these both can't be "indicated" at the same time, you can change lanes while in the roundabout you can't change while exiting as car A did.

    • +1

      Not in NSW.

      "Changing lanes in a roundabout
      Drivers may change lanes in a roundabout if they wish. The usual road
      rules for changing lanes apply. Drivers must use their indicator and give
      way to any vehicle in the lane they are entering."

      http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/safety-rules/nsw-r…

      A's completely at fault.

  • +5

    Car B definitely. Personally, if I was Car A going straight, I never would have entered the roundabout in the right lane. If I was in the "wrong" lane already, I would take extra care to avoid situations like this, regardless of whether I have the right of way or not.

    • +5

      But Car A was entitled to enter via right lane, for going straight or turning right.

      • +4

        but A is allowed to change lanes if he wishes, meaning B should not have entered in the first place

        • but he has to give way if he is changing lane.

        • +2

          @Settero: yeah, but the collision has happened while A is in the roundabout, meaning he has the right of way isn't it?

        • +2

          @steff:

          Not in NSW.

          "Changing lanes in a roundabout
          Drivers may change lanes in a roundabout if they wish. The usual road
          rules for changing lanes apply. Drivers must use their indicator and give
          way to any vehicle in the lane they are entering."

          http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/safety-rules/nsw-r…

          A's completely at fault.

      • +2

        You are correct, however, safety comes first. My main priority as a car driver is to get my passengers and myself safely from point A to point B. If you are Car A going straight, don't be an a** and exit on the left lane. At the end of the day, if you get into an accident and lose a loved one, Car B may be at fault, but will not be able to replace your loved one. I bet you would give anything to go back in time and let Car B go first. One of the reasons I tell my kids to watch out for cars, even at zebra crossings and traffic lights.

        • Agree with you, courtesy and common sense is what needs to be on the road but we are only human and the unexpected happens. Ie defensive driving is important - ie assume all sh.t can happen.

          Yes, A could have let B goes. But very likely B would be at the blind spot of A on the left front passenger pillar.

        • +1

          incoming fire has right of way…learnt that from COD :}

        • +1

          @Calam05: Hehe.. I still have my COD t-shirt from this deal: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/105696

    • Correct. Never enter a road without at least two lanes being free. You are asking for trouble if you do.

      • Wow. Way to create unnecessary traffic jams.

  • +10

    crash happened at point of exit, not at entry.

    If the crash happened as Car B enters the roundabout, then Car B would be at fault. When the accident happened, it is because Car A did the wrong thing by switching lanes within within the roundabout, regardless of what mistake Car B made in the past.
    Car A at fault for me.

  • (A) is at fault technically, as they changed lanes into another car. If this was a straight line, A would definitely be at fault. (A) likely didn't use indicators.

    (B) is at fault because (B) likely didn't use indicators, and should either drive defensively (waited for the (A)), or aggressively (gunned it to get away from (A)).

    People do not know how to use round-a-bouts (If I'm wrong with the above, this statement is especially true).

    • +2

      Even if Car B used indicator, Car A might not have seen it from his angle.

      • +1

        (B) at fault was a joke :)

  • Interesting. Where I live there are 16+ of this type of roundabouts consecutively. I always though of how dangerous it is !

  • +1

    If it had happened just as car B entered the roundabout, it would be Car B's fault as it entered the roundabout incorrectly. However, I think it is Car A's fault as this crash would not have occurred if they checked their blind spot. Seems to me Car A turned without checking otherwise they would have noticed Car B there.

    It all depends on if you think Car A had enough time to check before changing lanes which I think they did. Could've easily seen the car with a simple head check. Hence it is is Car A's fault. If the crash had occurred slightly earlier just as Car B was entering it would be Car B's fault.

  • +2

    More information is needed. it depends on where the damage of Car B is (which panel) and the angle of impact - which claim assessor will be able to tell.
    B will not be at fault under circumstances
    A hit B at the back bumper or towards back end of drivers side
    A and B side scratch each other.

    B can only enter after slow down or stop when there is safe gap. B needs to prove it has already been in the roundabout and A changes to its lane.

  • In keeping with the notion of giving way to the right at roundabouts (not sure why this is only mentioned once in the comments so far - when I was learning to drive my instructor repeatedly said this!) I'd say that car B is at fault.

    It is not car B's business which lane car A is travelling in. As car A is approaching from car B's right side, car B should've waited for car A to have completely cleared the roundabout before attempting to make the left turn.

    The image posted would tend me to believe that car B saw car A approaching/entering/already in the roundabout, but made a conscious decision to proceed with the left turn because of car B's 1) impatience, 2) failure to stop due to approaching the roundabout too fast (thinking they could've beaten car A), or 3) both 1 and 2.

    A vehicle may legally change lanes in a roundabout provided that they give way to other traffic in the jabe which they intend to enter. However, it was car B's responsibility to remain totally stopped until car A had exited the roundabout.

    On the balance of probabilities and given only the diagram to consider, I'd place car B at fault.

    • +2

      In keeping with the notion of giving way to the right at roundabouts (not sure why this is only mentioned once in the comments so far - when I was learning to drive my instructor repeatedly said this!)

      It's only mentioned once because it's incorrect. There is no rule that states "give way to the right at roundabouts". You are only required to give way to people on the roundabout.

      • People you are giving way to will only be on your right.

        • Changing lanes in a NSW round about it the same as anywhere else. I've linked an RMS document stating this towards the top of this tread.

        • Not always…sometimes people do come from the left lol…I've seen it happen…

        • +2

          Scenario:
          Single lane roundabout with the same positions at the drawing.

          80k zone.
          Car B enters the roundabout at 20km/h.
          Two seconds later
          Car A flies into the roundabout at 70km/h
          Collision.

          Even though car A is on the right of car B - Car A is at fault as car B entered the roundabout first and you have to give way to traffic already on the roundabout - not to the right.

  • +1

    car b needs to give way to whoever is in the roundabout. Car A maybe a larger vehicle/truck/bus which would need the extra space to exit the roundabout.
    why doesn't car b just wait it out?

    however a possible scene is the collision occurred where car A hits car B from behind then technically car a need to give way as car b is already in front of them.

  • +3

    I don't think there is enough information to say who is at fault. Assumptions are needed to decide. I boils down to the distance between car B entry and exit points.

    For example if the distance is short then the fault is with car B (most likely scenario).
    If the distance is considerable, then it is possible that car A entered the roundabout, but is traveling at a very slow speed and car B waited and entered after car A has passed him but is traveling at a higher speed and car A has failed to check over his shoulder when changing lanes. Then it would be car A fault.

  • Looking at the point of impact (where the 2 lines meet), CAR A is at fault. 2 cars can enter the Roundabout together and travel as well. If the car A tried to turn left before car B entered and then collision happened, car B is at fault as he should have given way to A to change lane.

    In this instance (it looks like), both car A and B's have fully entered and any lane change is similar to the lane change on normal roads. Again no one can give correct answer as it depends on the situation.

  • -2

    Whoever rear ended the other car is at fault.

    • In this case I'd say it's unlikely either car rear ended the other car. Looks more like they'd have a side impact.

  • If I had to assess this case, the key factor would be how far from the aroundabout the collision occured.

    This can be a BIG around about. Car B could have very safely entered the aroundabout even though car A in already in the aroundabout.

    I assume that this happened because of a car merging into a lane AFTER exiting a aroundabout. So this is not a clear cut case.

  • +6

    Car B has to give way to cars on the roundabout. But giving way doesnt mean you cant enter on the outer lane when the inner lane is occupied. Road rules say normal lane changing rules apply on roundabouts, so if Car A changes lanes mid-roundabout, they must give way to cars in the lane they are merging into.

    If Car B sees Car A indicating to change lanes, then they would have to give way to it. But if Car B enters before Car A has made a move or indicated intention to move, then the onus is on Car A to give way to Car B as they are both now on the roundabout.

    so from the drawing itself, there's no way to draw a conclusion as you dont have precise timings on when things happen. Another responsibility of Car A is to give reasonable notice for his intention to change lanes. Changing lanes cause he thinks its free, with one blink at the moment he changes lanes, isnt good enough.

    that said, and the reason so many wrongly believe the roundabout rule is 'give way to the right' (rather than the correct 'give way to vehicles on the roundabout') is because you want to avoid any chance of collision, regardless of whether you would have right of way (and not be at fault) in the event of a collision. if you get to a roundabout and enter before a car to your right does, then you have right of way. But if that car is going 100km/h with no chance of avoiding hitting you, sure they will be at fault, but you still have their car up under your ribs if you enter.

    So if I was Car B, despite probably having right of way (if Car A hadnt changed lanes or indicated to yet), I wouldnt be entering the roundabout until I was sure even a merge/lane change from Car A wouldnt cause a collision, i.e. they have passed or begun to turn right at the roundabout.

    • -1

      I think it's 2 rules.

      1. When approaching a round about, give way to any vehicles already in the round about.

      2. Where two or more cars approach a round about at different entry points simultaneously, give way to the vehicle on the right.

  • +1

    What State? From WA's ORS

    If you intend to change lanes in a roundabout then you must signal
    your intention to do so. However, it is safer to position your vehicle in
    the correct lane before you enter a roundabout so that you do not have
    to change lanes.

    That more or else clears up that what A did is legal.

    Given that you need to give way to anyone already in the roundabout AND to your right, assuming A was already in the round about, B should have given way and is at fault.

    • That pamphlet doesn’t assign blame. It just says you must signal to change lanes, like on any other section of road.

      I don't feel like looking up WA's traffic laws on a Saturday night though, sorry.

  • Car B is at fault. Car A should not have changed lanes in an intersection, but Car B must give way no matter what, as they have the dotted holding line - the holding line becomes a stop line if any traffic is coming.

  • What the, is this originally from a forum in Chinese?

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&…

    • +1

      Well if you scroll down to the street view picture it is clear car A cut across the roundabout and hit car B.

      Car A is at fault for changing lanes and not giving way.

      If A entered through the right lane then it is reasonable to assume they would exit into the right lane.

  • I hate it when cars change lanes in a roundabout. If you are going straight through from the right lane you are supposed to exit in the right lane. There are not many roundabouts big enough to change lanes on properly and still make your exit. If you are going straight and want to be in a particular lane just past the exit of the roundabout, get in the correct lane before you get on it.

    We've had roundabouts for years and years and still people don't know how to use them.

    At the end of the day the insurance company will decide who is at fault. There isn't enough info from a picture to see who was indicating, who was there first, who hit who etc.

  • +4

    As per schematic, clearly car A entered roundabout first so car B by law is required to give way to car A. So given a collision occurred, car B is at fault. Any other matter is irrelevant/speculation/red herring.

    • Not sure how you can guage that car A entered first. It is a static picture. this whole thread is speculation, none of us were there.

      • Simple … logic, given provided schematic incident details and roundabout rules.

        • So where was the damage on the vehicles? Rear end of B, rear quarter of B, drivers door? Did B hit the back end of A? I could probably guess, but I cannot know for sure.

          Did car A indicate to change lanes? That will make a difference. Unless A indicated to change lanes then B had given way to the vehicle on the roundabout by staying in the left lane.

          If A hit the rear end of B then they could be at fault for a rear ender.

  • Cant wait for automated cars like in minority report

  • Car A changed his/her mind while exiting the roundabout. He/She didn't stick to the lane that they are supposed to be in.
    Car B entered the roundabout assuming Car A is on the other lane.
    I guess Car A is at fault

  • +2

    Car B.

    Every day.

  • +1

    In Qld: Car B is at fault. I had look this up recently as well, Car A can change lanes if safe to do so. Car B should've anticipated the possibility that A may change and give way in case - obviously safe driving practice is more important than a driver's right always.

  • So there's no definitive answer on which car was at fault. Is there any police officer or insurance company employees who can provide us the answer?! Maybe both cars made mistakes, but one party gotta be liable, right?

    • There isn't enough info from a static picture. Show us where the damage on the vehicle is, tell us who got there first, did A indicate left to change lanes/exit the roundabout etc. otherwise it's up to the insurance company.

  • +1

    Im in QLD, so my assumption is that Car B is at fault.
    The main debate is whether Car B gave way to Car A.
    From diagram, my assumption has to be that Car A entered first (unless Car A is speeding), so Car B is at fault as didn’t give way.

    Importantly, the QLD rules don’t state any difference about giving way on multi lane roundabout. Relevant roundabout rules include:
    • You must give way to all vehicles already on the roundabout
    • If you want to go straight ahead, use either lane.
    • On a multi-lane roundabout, if you are changing lanes before exiting, you must give way to vehicles in the lane you are moving to.

  • I understand you're allowed to change lanes on a multi-lane roundabout but am I the only one who thinks changing lanes on a roundabout should not be allowed?

    Most roundabouts are tiny, even the two lane ones, and it can be very dangerous checking blind spots while turning.

    Similar to not being allowed to change lanes at an intersection as it just causes confusion and creates hazards. Is there any reason why A could not have waited to exit the roundabout before changing lanes?

    • +1

      I'm with you. You should be exiting the roundabout in the same lane you entered in (regardless of rules)

    • You are allowed to change lanes if required to do so in order to exit the round about. In this case A could have exited without changing to left lane, therefore is not allowed.

  • +1

    On second look A is totally at fault. It's not "changing lanes", it's cutting lanes to exit.

    If a collusion happened B would have already been on the roundabout which means A should have given way before changing lanes.

    Even if B t-boned A on its exit, A was still cutting off B by changing lanes.

  • It's MY fault

    DONE :)

  • +1

    Car A is at fault.

    Car B is at no fault at all. He gave way to his "lane" and his lane ONLY. Also the give way only applies when entering into the roundabout, not inside the roundabout which he was if there was to be impact.

    Car A cut lanes on exiting in a very dangerous manner, as he didn't give way to cars on that lane.

    • +1

      Car approaching roundabout must give way to ALL cars inside roundabout

      http://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/rules/road/roundabout… - 'When approaching a roundabout you must give way to all vehicles already on the roundabout.'

      • +1

        Wow you really just cherry picked and deliberately left out the next line.
        "In some cases on a multi-lane roundabout, it may be necessary to change lanes before exiting. If you are changing lanes you must give way to vehicles in the lane you are moving to."

        The accident happened after both A and B are already in the roundabout. So B has already given way to A. By A changing lane, A is at fault for not giving way to B.

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