Sold The Car Without Having Buyers Details, Rego Not Transferred - Now Getting Toll Fines

Lharik on 12/05/2016 - 16:55
Last edited 12/05/2016 - 17:44 by 1 other user

Hello community,

I'm in big trouble. I sold my car via Gumtree, wasn't aware of having buyers information (name, address and licence no.). After 1 month just found out buyer hasn't transferred the car yet to his name. Getting lots of toll notice. Don't know what other fines are on the way.

Called Service NSW, they said they can't do anything without buyers information. Went to police they can't so anything.

Only information I have is him mobile number which is switched off, sent few text messages as well.

Please suggest me any solution.

I know I'm stupid. Have done very big mistake but I'm human and (expletive) happened. Please help me.

Thanks

Automotive

Comments

  • Flatlined on 13/05/2016 - 10:20

    Make a police report and deem as technically stolen but with qualifying explanation as to the background. The police have to accept the report.

    If you get pinged for any more offences you can defend yourself by stating the car has been technically stolen and you are covered in the explanatory notes.

  • MMM on 13/05/2016 - 10:22
    +4

    Best advice is go to Road traffic Authority ask them for advice and explain the situation. You most likely will be up for a fine but at least it will make them aware that the infringements are not yours and hope that the guy has not been up to any criminal activity with the car as its still in your name. If he is not insured and has an accident you may be responsible for the damages. So you need to go to the road traffic authority ASAP.

  • darkchoc on 13/05/2016 - 10:49
    +3

    Add the mobile number to WhatsApp contacts. Create a group with that number. Then you might be able to see a picture or a name.

    Try searching Facebook for the number.

    Stalking 101. Try all avenues.

  • alz on 13/05/2016 - 11:20
    -1

    Go to the police you idiot.

    • darkchoc on 13/05/2016 - 12:18

      Hahahahaha

  • darkchoc on 13/05/2016 - 12:24
    +4

    Looking through all the comments here, the best course of action is to:
    1. Report the plates as stolen
    2. cancel the registration
    3. Pass the evidence of you reporting plates as stolen and cancelled rego to the authority issuing you the fines.

    Don't give any further information of the situation. The challenge is explaining the situation to unsympathetic ears. So don't explain.

    Make it the buyers problem to resolve.

    • darkchoc on 13/05/2016 - 12:26
      +1

      Morally not correct. But will give you the outcome you need.

      • EnALup on 13/05/2016 - 12:38
        +2

        Person who bought the car is not morally right either.

  • b-hunterr on 13/05/2016 - 12:41
    +3

    Interesting and unfortunate situation that people can definitely learn from. It'd be great to get an update on how it's going/if it's resolved.

  • OzBestDeal on 13/05/2016 - 13:04

    Few things you can try:
    1. Trace from owner of mobile phone number. Contact Optus, Telstra, Voda, whatever. They usually have some kind of ID of the owner, even for prepaid.
    2. How do you receive payment. If it's not cash, you can trace from there.
    3. Gumtree account if he ever make contact with you via gumtree account.

    • spaij on 13/05/2016 - 13:26
      +5

      I don't think a telco would give out details to a random person with a nice story, would they?

      • OzBestDeal on 13/05/2016 - 14:03
        -5

        They would if you can produce a police report

  • Cave Fire on 13/05/2016 - 13:11
    +8

    Ok, I had a similar situation where I left expired interstate plates on an "as is" sale. At the time I thought that because my registration expired, the plates were useless. A few months later, I began receiving toll notices on a weekly basis for a similar car with my plates attached. After a lot of calling, emails and police visits, I managed to get the notices revoked and the plates logged in the police system.

    The first step I would recommend is contacting the infringement authorities to get your fines stopped. Do you have any proof of sale? If not, a written or emailed stat dec saying you were not in control of the vehicle is enough to cancel infringements.

    The next step is to get the plates logged in the police system. The new owner has commited a few crimes and should be liable if caught. I did not manage to get any one of five officers to take a report but flagging the plates seemed to help. The police also mentioned that Stat decs are enough to cancel fines, despite what the issuing agency might say.

  • wonderboy on 13/05/2016 - 13:12

    Do they have your information? Why hasn't the other guy transferred ownership yet. You have to pay a fee on top of stamp duty if you don't transfer ownership within 2 weeks of purchase.

  • striker5950 on 13/05/2016 - 13:35

    is the car stolen? technically no
    how to get out of this mess? report as stolen
    you will most likely end up paying the fines tho unless you have time for some paper work and patience

  • [Deactivated] on 13/05/2016 - 13:55
    +4

    After all the useless BS above, just go and get really drunk !!!

  • Baysew on 13/05/2016 - 14:02
    +3

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/247612#comment-3689977

    Its in the buyers interest to lodge the transfer form as well, otherwise the renewal will go to the seller who obviously won't pay for it. Then the buyer will be driving around unregistered.

    This is a good point. Whilst the buyer is driving around toll free (either intentionally or not) sooner or later the rego will expire and it is the driver that gets the on the spot fine. At that stage the police question will be "Is that car yours ?"

    So when does the registration expire ?

  • hayden007 on 13/05/2016 - 14:02
    +9

    LOL how do people like this actually survive?

    • [Deactivated] on 14/05/2016 - 15:28
      +1

      Maybe it was the first time he sold a car?

      Maybe he didn't have parents to show him how it was done in the first place?

      I didn't know about this

  • Hirolol on 13/05/2016 - 14:29
    +1

    Let us know what happens.
    Good luck!

  • No ONE on 13/05/2016 - 15:52

    What's your plate number and state?

  • chriskq on 13/05/2016 - 16:04

    following with interest…. i have no advice

  • striker5950 on 13/05/2016 - 16:50
    +2

    im more interested in the full story, op give us the full story on how you sold a car to someone without filling out the rego paper.
    did he just rock up with cash, handed you the cash and you handed the keys and said goodbye?

    • airzone on 13/05/2016 - 17:59

      Probably filled in the form, and the new owner took the complete rego paper including notice of disposal. It's easy to do if you don't already know that the seller needs to submit it themselves.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/05/2016 - 18:45
    +6

    Not sure if it has been suggested, but try talking to the community legal aid. They even have a phone service.

    http://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/get-legal-help/legal-helpline

    Good luck

  • umoddbro on 13/05/2016 - 18:52

    smh.. how do you sell a car and not even have the buyers name lol

    • StewBalls on 15/05/2016 - 12:26

      Johnny Cash

      • Euphemistic on 20/05/2016 - 14:02

        And got burned burned burned, in the ring of fire.

        • StewBalls on 20/05/2016 - 15:19

          That's where the plan fell down… ;)

  • WD TV andSOUND on 13/05/2016 - 21:14
    +5

    I if you keep your old rego papers like I do, you could use the notice of disposal of the old expired one!!!!

  • benjamin on 13/05/2016 - 21:34
    +8

    I had a similar thing happen in Tasmania.

    When I started getting the fines, I posted a letter to Service Tasmania stating I had sold the vehicle on the specific date and did not have the details of the person I sold it too. This was enough for them to cancel the registration. I had to write the letter as I was in Perth at the time I found out and wouldn't be back in Tasmania for months.

    I then rang the fine enforcement agency, who were able to check with Service Tasmania that I had sold the car, and had the fines waived.

  • aussieprepper on 13/05/2016 - 22:00
    +1

    I think legally the some one has duty of care to follow up on this what about if the person runs some one over and hurts them and the cops come and arrest you? Then if the car is dumped you have to find a way to prove it wasn't you driving?

    The way this is going it would seem the person isn't going to transfer the car at any time so they are accumulating fines! then will dump the car or sell it of again and leave you in a bad way!

  • brutus on 13/05/2016 - 22:26

    search the phone number on FB

  • altomic on 13/05/2016 - 22:30
    +1

    yeah, I've always "just sold the car a month ago but didn't get the sellers details" when those fines start rolling in.

    but seriously OP, seriously?!?!!??!!

  • Bnjam3 on 13/05/2016 - 23:18
    +2

    You need to speak to a lawyer who can advice on what exactly you should do. Ozbaragin is not a place to seek a legal advice, especially with lots of trolls who are interested to get you in trouble.

  • resisting the urge on 13/05/2016 - 23:29
    +3

    So you have an obligation to submit the notice of disposal. Big Deal. Get the Stat Dec sorted and lodged with the relevant fining authorities. Given you have mislaid the plates, ServiceNSW will assign new ones to you. You take the plates and give them to the buyer if/when the buyer contacts you.

    What saves you is that the buyer has an obligation to transfer the rego in 14 days of the sale.

    So if that is not done, the buyer cannot expect you not to report the plates lost, especially if they are racking up tolls and fines, etc.

    Why would the buyer contact you? Because they are now driving a car with plates that will cause them to be pulled over and fined for driving unregistered and/or uninsured ($1400) which is 4 or 8 points too.

    During the sale you did done nothing wrong to the buyer. But the buyer wronged you by not transferring as they should. So be nice and send them a text message so they know NOT to drive the car anymore. Tell themthey can collect the new plates from you once they send you their details and cover any fines (and undertake to cover any further costs).

    E.g.
    "I've been unable to contact you for weeks about the car you bought. This message is to inform you that the plates are no longer valid for use and you will need to get new ones from me. Beware that the car can no longer be legally driven and is uninsured until you do. You owe me for some tolls and fines, come see me so we can work it out"

    That should fix it pronto.

    • chumlee on 14/05/2016 - 14:17

      I don't think the buyer really cares about the OP and his problem. Buyer is racking up fines. What's legal doesn't seem to be on his mind. The phone number buyer has is most likely a burner phone

      • John Dough on 14/05/2016 - 17:09

        Yes playing nice here is not an option. This person is screwing the OP over and knows it as they are refusing contact.
        I posted below what I think. It will work out ok in the end IMO.

        • resisting the urge on 18/05/2016 - 21:45

          It's not about playing nice. It's about getting the rego plates linked to an expired registration as quickly as possible. Once unregistered, the driver is taking a big risk and will probably get busted sooner rather than later. Also it is no longer the problem (legally) of the previous owner, though fines will still arrive, it will be possible to fight them.

          But the contact gives the buyer a chance to settle it and the OP an easier way out than fighting with the registry. The OP's only goal here should be to get the Notice of Disposal lodged.

          @OP: Even if you don't hear from the buyer, goto your local registry and insist on them finding a solution to something that will not go away otherwise. Be nice, explain yourself clearly and ask for the manager if people just tell you what the computer will/won't allow them to do.

  • JediJan on 13/05/2016 - 23:32

    I have not noticed any method of payment mentioned here. Was vehicle paid for in cash, personal cheque or bank cheque? The latter two methods, at least, provide a paper trail to the buyer's identity. (May have missed something here though).

    When you are selling a vehicle privately you usually ask to see the licences of the testing drivers; which is your opportunity to make note of the names, licence numbers etc. You wouldn't give your car keys to a stranger otherwise.

    Following with interest.

    • JediJan on 14/05/2016 - 14:10

      Also, would it not be fraud if someone was using your name, (Identity) to incur charges, fines etc?

      Would be handy if there were CCTV recordings taken at point of sale.

  • lethalmoney on 13/05/2016 - 23:44

    Cbf reading all comments, but in Victoria at least there's a forced transfer papers.. That only works if you have their details and they aren't transferring on their end..

    You might be stuck waiting out the rego to lapse.. Definitely not stolen. It's a civil matter.

  • 50cent on 14/05/2016 - 00:14
    +2

    was i they only one who laughed when i read this?

  • onlyletters on 14/05/2016 - 07:39
    +2

    cancel the rego and report the plates as lost

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 14/05/2016 - 11:26
    -1

    Bikies

  • Bargaingeek on 14/05/2016 - 12:01

    u should report it as a stolen car, since he hasn't transfered the car rego it is considered stolen. Report it that way to police and u can get your fines refunded.

    • Baysew on 14/05/2016 - 12:03

      Went to police they can't so anything.

      The OP has already tried.

      The OP handed the keys over for payment for the car.
      How would this be considered theft ?

  • cooni on 14/05/2016 - 15:51
    +2

    Besides true caller and whatsapp and Facebook to try identify the caller, also try sync.me - they also have a sizable reverse number lookup database.

  • John Dough on 14/05/2016 - 17:03
    +7

    I've had a similar situation in Victoria, but it may help ease your mind.

    I put my old car on Gumtree one Sunday afternoon, a buyer called me within an hour and said he will take it.

    The guy came round with a mate, they were dodgy as anything. He paid me at the front door, in 10 dollar notes (the car was sold without rego and it was on it's last legs) I asked if he wanted a receipt, he said sure, I wrote one out and asked for his licence, he said he didn't have it on him.

    I wrote the receipt to 'Shane Warne' (I kid you not)

    Then I took the plates off - Something I know you didn't do. The guy took off with wheelspin and his mate in a stolen vehicle proceeded to drift out of my street in a cloud of smoke.

    I remember the feeling, my heart sank, my little gem of a car of 10 years didn't deserve this ending, but a buyer is a buyer. I told a mate what happened and we joked the next call would be from the cops.

    Two days later, a constable from Albury called and asked am I the owner of the car. I said nope, it was sold on Sunday, unregistered.
    They were like - ok no worries, and didn't tell me anymore except it was used in a crime and dumped in the bush and was undriveable.

    So how does all this relate to you? Well in my opinion, even though you sold the car with plates on, you sold it without registration as a transfer of registration was not completed at the time of sale.

    If I were you, I would;

    1) Report your plates as lost/stolen as at the date of disposal. Fill in a stat dec with details of how it all went down.
    2) Contact the toll company and tell them the car is unregistered to the driver that is using it, as you disposed of the car.
    3) Cancel the registration and receive your refund.

    Don't take no for an answer for any of the above. If the toll company persists, let them know you will fight it in court if they wish, and you will win.
    If it gets to a stage where you believe you may be served due to the non-payment, you could pay them, with the intention to take it to court to claim it back.
    The toll company didn't lose any money on this incident, IMO they will drop it before it goes too far, especially if you keep in contact with them and escallate it through the management ranks, and show them you have taken further steps to prevent it from continuing (i.e cancelled/lost stolen plates proof)

    It would be helpful to present any evidence to the Toll Company you have, i.e text arranging the sale of the car.

    There's my 2c, I wouldn't be too stressed, just go through the steps and sort it out and learn the lesson - people are out there to take advantage of others, and it's up to you to be vigilant and cover your ass.

    Good Luck!

  • UFO on 14/05/2016 - 21:09
    +5

    You have a mobile number. Use it.

    SMS-

    Dear Unknown Person. You purchased vehicle 'xxxx' with registration plate 'xxxx' on 'date' for $xxxx.
    After repeated attempts to contact you about the transfer of ownership and the tolls/fines payable, I wish to give you notice that as the still registered owner of the vehicle, I will be in 3 (THREE) business days be cancelling the registration of the vehicle and obtaining a refund for the unused portion of registration to recoup costs now borne by me for tolls/fines. If you don't wish for this to occur, I strongly suggest that before 5pm on 'date', you reply to this SMS with the following details, in order for me to complete the transfer of the vehicle.

    FULL NAME, DATE OF BIRTH, DRIVER LICENCE NUMBER, (and any other particulars you require to transfer ownership).

    This is the only written notice I will be providing, and I will only accept communication with you via SMS to protect my legal rights. I wish to reinforce to you, that as of 'date' the REGISTRATION OF THE ABOVE VEHICLE WILL BE CANCELLED if you do not reply. Most Sincerely xxxx.

    • UFO on 14/05/2016 - 21:14
      +3

      You need to understand that there is Legal Owner and Registered Owner.
      Both those terms have rights.
      Until transfer, you are the Registered Owner of that vehicle. You have obligations (as you are no doubt now aware of in relation to fines etc), but you also have rights. Until transfer occurs, that registration is YOURS.

      With the above notice, you are giving clear intention that you will no longer be responsible for his actions. If he doesn't reply, no worries, he's still the legal owner of the car. But he doesn't own the rego unless he claims it.

      Ball is in his court, and your ass is covered whichever way he chooses.

      If he commits a serious crime with the car, at least a mobile number will help police track him down. Cancelled or not, police have the ability to get records from telcos on who owned numbers and when.

      The only thing you've done wrong is not obtain his details. It DOESNT mean you need to suffer like this.

      • John Dough on 15/05/2016 - 08:41
        +1

        Whilst I agree with you for the most part, at the point where the other party purchased the car is the point where ownership of the car was completely transferred.
        The fact the plates are still on the car is a moot point when it comes to ownership. I can own a car, with someone else registering it if I AGREE to that, the OP didn't agree to that.

        Whatever the car was used for after that point is not the responsibility of the former owner.
        The new owner is knowingly committing the offences (albeit made easier by the car still being registered in OP's name)

        There's no way in hell I would dispose of a registered vehicle without taking the plates off, or filling out the transfer on the spot.
        Something the OP has learnt the hard way, but IMO will be able to get out of with some quick action, and smooth talking to the Toll company.

    • harik on 15/05/2016 - 09:19

      Hope for the good end.

    • harik on 15/05/2016 - 09:21
      +1

      Thanks. SMS sent.

  • Randxyz123 on 14/05/2016 - 22:59

    Did the buyer pay for the car?

    I don't quite understand how you don't have the buyers name?? He didn't text or call you saying "hey my name is xxx and I'm interested in buying your car"???

    Do a stat dec saying

    On <day> <date> I sold the car with the rego "<rego>". I am no longer in possession of the car.

    Sign it , get a police officer to witness it and then they should be able to help. Then go to the service NSW and cancel the registration. Next time the new owner drives past a HWP car the plates will come up as unregistered or cancelled.

    NO a telco wouldn't release customer data even with a police report.

    • lethalmoney on 15/05/2016 - 01:08
      +3

      Telcos release it to police, not the individual

      • John Dough on 15/05/2016 - 08:46

        From previous dealings with police on this type of thing, they wont care unless the car is used for a serious crime.
        Toll evasion isn't serious enough to prepare the paperwork to have the court force the release of phone records.
        I'll bet that the phone plan was a $2 Vodafone Sim, activated with false credentials anyway.

  • abc xyz on 14/05/2016 - 23:48
    +2

    So what is the rego plate? Maybe one of these ozbargainers have seen it.

    • harik on 15/05/2016 - 09:10
      +1

      Czv57j

      • JediJan on 15/05/2016 - 13:29

        May be useful to supply make, model, colour. Also locations and times this vehicle has been sighted (from toll advices). I am sure that most Ozbargainers would love to help you.

        • harik on 15/05/2016 - 15:56

          Holden astra 2005 model silver color, it was sighted around hammondville.

        • No ONE on 16/05/2016 - 12:14
          +2

          The CTP policy period end date is 16/10/2016.
          Insurer's name: QBE
          Insurer's code: 36

          It's still registered. Why op has not gone to rms and deregistered the car yet.

        • Euphemistic on 20/05/2016 - 14:11
          +1

          @harik: at least a 2005 Astra won't run for much longer to keep racking up fines.

  • mung12 on 15/05/2016 - 01:17
    +5

    I have had the exact same issue that happened to my dad. Took us 8 months chasing this guy. Fines and toll notice kept on coming. Spoke to police, JP, vicroads. Finally I actually went into the vicroads office and explained my situation. She basically degregistered the number plates. It was so bloody easy, she did it right away! Not sure how she could do that without plates or ajything。 But it worked for me. Good luck

    • John Dough on 15/05/2016 - 08:48

      This is the correct advice for the first step. NSW Rego office is where the application to cancel the rego must be made by whatever means possible, as soon as possible.

  • Venthriloquist on 15/05/2016 - 13:32

    Hv u got any other form of the buyers id that you could trace back?, eg email, if they ever contact you through gumtree…must hv a user name…im not saying u should hack into it…but if u google it might be able to find the fb page…

    • JediJan on 15/05/2016 - 13:35

      Good idea … Perhaps Gumtree has some way to assist also.

    • harik on 15/05/2016 - 15:58

      He called me and text me but no gumtree message.

      • matt_will_fix_it on 15/05/2016 - 20:22

        In order to get your phone number from gumtree, he must have logged on. Maybe Gumtree can help?

  • darkchoc on 15/05/2016 - 22:35
    +4

    OP, have you watched a fly continuing to bang on a closed window, when there an open door behind it?

    Have you actually listened to the advice of cancelling the plates and rego with a stat Dec as so many people have suggested?

    Or are you still pursuing the buyer via text/email?

    • TheOneWhoKnocks on 20/05/2016 - 19:58

      Ironic isn't it? Asking for advice, receives logical advice, does not pursue to implement such advice. Adviceception.

  • smartazz104 on 16/05/2016 - 00:28
    +1

    I'm in big trouble. I sold my car via Gumtree, wasn't aware of having buyers information (name, address and licence no.)

    Did you just… take his money and hand over the keys?

    • No ONE on 16/05/2016 - 12:09

      Like people in american movies do lol

  • [Deactivated] on 20/05/2016 - 00:22
    +1

    Try prayer, LOL

  • John Dough on 01/06/2016 - 07:59

    I'm interested in an update - OP, what's happened, how did you use the advice you sought here?
    Has it all been resolved?

  • SnoozeAndLose on 01/06/2016 - 08:00
    +3

    Waiting for update OP

  • DarkOz on 03/10/2018 - 09:13

    OP getting into this situation is not surprising. What is more not surprising is Services NSW and NSW Police NOT advising OP what to do to resolve future problems. It's like they don't really care.

    • Name on 03/10/2018 - 22:25
      +2

      It's like they don't really care.

      It's because they don't.. Also this thread is from 2 years ago.

      • DarkOz on 04/10/2018 - 07:15

        Seems like Sandeepk brought it back to life yesterday for a similar issue or this is a prank.

        • Name on 04/10/2018 - 12:09

          yeah i'd agree. Sounds hard to believe!

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