For those who don't know Scott Pape is a pretty prolific financial adviser. Will be announced next week.
Confirmed: https://www.ingdirect.com.au/everyday-banking/calculators/ca…
ING Direct Ending Their 2% Cash Back on Their Everyday Account from 30 September
His_Holiness on 22/07/2016 - 20:56
Last edited 25/07/2016 - 21:22
Last edited 25/07/2016 - 21:22
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@skywalka:
ME, but it has a condition - for new clients only. Previous clients need to 'request' higher interest. Not sure what does that mean and how easy is it to get approved. ME is 3.35, RAMS 3.15 but no withdrawals and 200 transfer monthly, uBank 3.12 with 200 transfer from an external account.
@Wystri Warrick:
It's not that easy if you have given numbers to friends and family, changing it every time is a pain.
Yeah, no harm keeping the account, whether one will still keep one's savings in it or not, since it is fee-free. Besides, rates change all the time among the banks. Good incentives may come again, who knows?
If not using the account, might be better off closing it. After all, good incentives are usually offered to NEW accounts.
@bluesky: yeah, agree it may differ from bank to bank. Hence my thought is if you are not getting any benefit out of the existing account, closing it sooner might just get you a chance of being "new" again based on whatever criteria at the time when the new incentives come. By hanging on to an account you are not using will just get you zero chance of being "new" again ;)
They have gotten so much business out of the 2% cashback bundled with the reasonably high flexible savings account (sitting at 3%). I believe most of us thrifty people were happy to park our money with ING because of both perks, however with one half of the benefits going (in actual fact the better half of the perk is going), they are going to lose a lot of customers in a downward spiral.
I can understand if they are losing a significant amount of money then it would be an option to let it go, but surely the intangible value of a strong loyal customer base is something they'd want to keep. I'm not a strategy manager at ING, but I hope they have thought this out clearly. The worst thing to do is to hurt both themselves and their customers.
Find pareto efficiency, not purely to maximise short term shareholder value. Play the help me help you game, make the stakeholders happy (such as customers) and they will in turn make shareholders happy (with being loyal customers)
Really do hope some other bank steps up with a cashback feature after this - UBank would be nice
It will be really nice, but I really doubt it. And if they do, it will probably be for the first few months upon new account opening.
Yup, ready for the INGEXIT
Cue the mass exodus from ING.
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Well it could actually be a good thing.
Once they realize that they lost a lot of customers they may want to get them back and put back on the 5% rebate offer that brought so many customers to them in first place.
ING Direct was bought out by ANZ. So maybe if the ANZ executives see the exodus of customers they will wind up the whole operation and move all the customers over to ANZ accounts. Or maybe that's always been their plan since they bought it? Bait customers with 2% cashback and then switch them all over to ANZ accounts??? But isn't a bait and switch against the consumer protection laws?
ANZ only bought the insurance and wealth management business.
Ah true. My ignorance.
Bait customers with 2% cashback and then switch them all over to ANZ accounts??? But isn't a bait and switch against the consumer protection laws?
I think you need to also bone up on what its truly bait and switch, as I think your concepts aren't correct. A take-over wouldnt be considered as baiting.
@RockyRaccoon: I thought they could be baiting after the take over. Anyway that's just moot now. Because there was no take over and I was only speculating.
Abuse the cashback?
Or use the cashback?Haven't you heard of people splitting their payment into multiple $99 paywave.
Which ING also contacted a number of people about and warned them about doing this.
@Shadowsfury: It's your card and you can decide how you want to use it. Bank can't dictate the terms if the usage is still valid and within the rules. If the bank has issues, it should use a filter, for example, only one transaction as one retailer within one day allowed for cashback. Not sure where it's doable technically though.
@virhlpool: Of course it's technically possible. I believe ING only issued warnings when it was 5% though.
That's abuse?
LOL.
How about we start a Ozbargainer Change.org petition?
I'm sure if you post the link everyone here would sign.
I'm sad that my name was spelt wrong :'(
@Doggiie: sorry Doggiie :(. Was using my phone, didn't notice it until I couldn't edit anymore.
Will you write us a Change.org petition?
Yeah, I ll sign. Why not.
It was good. Now its gone. Safe to say we all made hay while the sun was shining.
Home loan bonus gone, now 2% cash back gone. Something else will take its place.
Had that 2% cash back working really well. Prefer not to overload the credit card and always better to pay for things with cash (another scott pape tip). What to do now…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Pape
I was all excited till I read "He currently is a finance presenter for Seven News."Edit: Okay he's listed on ASIC's site https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/life-events-and-you/life-event…
Yes don't be put off by the channel 7 link up. Not a koshy in training. His barefoot investor advice is actually pretty good to take on board.
What to do now…
Switch to another card? If you are looking for one, the one I use mainly is Amex Essential. Reward rate is only 0.741%, but better than nothing. And it is fee-free. Plus sign-up bonus and some card benefits. Info here.
Thanks for that will look into it. Haven't gone for Amex previously. Do you find you get stung with extra transaction fees though?
I am allergic to fees! :-) No, I haven't got stung yet. I think nowadays, Amex is much better than before, with supermarkets and large stores accepting them without fees. So far, I am able to pay most of my purchases/bills without fees using Amex.
In some cases, where Amex is not directly accepted, I use paypal or austpost billpay so I can still use the Amex card. See my comment here.
Anyone know if the next to go will be the 50cent bonus with 200 EFTPOS cash withdrawal? I have gone decently hard with that hard over the last few years.
How much have you made?
when i was out of work, i would cycle $1000 (5 x 200) out and back in, in the same day… solid $2.50, i think i clocked into $30, before i lost the will to do it.
True OzBargain spirit!
+ve@fruit: ultra embarrassing at the checkouts…. got me out of the house tho, i also took the free bread from brumbies bakery, and free sausage sample from butcher, accompanied with the occasional pretend to be interested chat…. pretty sad
You win unclesnake!!!True ozbargainer.
My rewards last financial year totalled 231.99; most of that was the 50c bonus. The year before that was even more. I have recently (re)discovered surveys and they are much better value for time.
lol I wouldn't call them lucrative! I was going to start a everyday finance investing blog and I wrote some reviews below. Apologies for the long post.
Myopinions:
I’ve been a member of myopinions for a seriously long time. There are usually at around 2 surveys you can do per day; the rejection rate is lower than others. Each point is worth 1 cent and the minimum redemption is 2000 points or 20 dollars. Rejection gets you 20points.Redemption is paid to a paypal account then I transfer that to my normal bank account. Turnaround from redemption to actual cash can be as fast as one business day. It’s all really quick and I highly recommend myopinions.
Opinion World:
Been a member for a few months so experience is limited. Usually slightly less surveys than Myopinions but it has a similar rejection rate as Myopinions. No points for a rejection. Also I reckon time per dollar is slightly less value than myopinions. Each point is worth 2 cents and the minimum redemption rate is 500 points or 10 bucks; which is an advantage over My Opinions. Redemption is paid to paypal then transfer that to my normal bank account. Same speed as Myopinions.Pure Profile:
Signed up same time as Opinion World so experience is limited. Quite a few surveys but it has a similar rejection rate. Rejections can yield 5 or 10cents. Time per dollar is probably the best value. Rewards are rated in AUD already so no “points”.Minimum redemption is at 25AUD with a max of 50AUD per 60 days; because of the harsh redemption rules I favour Myopinons and Opinion world first. Payments are made direct to bank and (according to them) can take up to 30 days! As an example I redeemed on 24/05/16; in bank 24/06/16. I redeemed 09/06/16; in bank 25/7/16.
The Pure profile platform feel and layout absolutely kills the other survey sites, pity about the harshness of the redemption to cash process.
Toluna:
Signed up at the same time as Opinions World and Pure profile. I don’t recommend it because the rejection rate is super high, for me anyway and speed of redemption is super slow as well. Redeemed 20 bucks on 23/05/16 hit paypal acct 17/06/16.My final takeaway is that you will not get rich doing this!!! You also need spare time, perhaps you are unemployed, a stay at home mum, or a student or whatever. Important thing to note is that you don’t get taxed on the “income” unlike savings interest. I try and at least get 10 bucks a week in cash value. Pretty easy done whilst watching tv etc. So if you measure that against a 10k chunk of cash 10x52 = 520 a return of 5.2% tax free. My taxation rate is 37% so the return is theoretically much higher. This is not a perfect example of course.
Over the past few months:
MY OPINIONS CURRENT @ $18.84
OPINION WORLD CURRENT @ $24.00 (cbf redeeming)
I also have 25 from Pureprofile should be in my account in a month. 20 bucks on the way from Toluna on the way as well, will hit maybe a month as well.25/07/16 25.00 PUREPROFILE
18/07/16 20.00 MY OPINIONS
06/07/16 12.20 OPINION WORLD
24/06/16 25.00 PUREPROFILE
17/06/16 20.00 TOLUNA
09/06/16 12.40 OPINION WORLD
09/06/16 20.00 MY OPINIONS
16/05/16 10.90 OPINION WORLD
09/05/16 21.00 MY OPINIONS
28/04/16 20.00 MY OPINIONS
14/04/16 20.00 MY OPINIONS
01/04/16 20.00 MY OPINIONS
13/04/16 20.00 MY OPINIONS
I knew this would happen when I heard a few months ago, the reserve bank of Australia would be limiting Visa MasterCard interchange fees, and the interchange fees is where ING pays for this 2% cashback.
How does it work?
This article explains it
With banks now collecting a smaller cut on transaction surcharges, this means there's less money to purchase frequent flyer points
or in this case, instant cashback for ING paywave
Thanks, this article explained it really well to someone like me who's not so financially minded.
could at least lower it to say 1% instead of scrapping it
Any idea what they are lowering it to?
The RBA will set the interchange fees to a limit of 0.8%
If actually enforced this a great decision.
We're kidding ourselves if we think the extra charges weren't simply passed on to us.
The pessimist in me says the chain supermarkets will do nothing to pass on the savings back to consumers, and so for most cases we will be worse off
Yeah I will leave is they get rid of this.
I was the greatest advocate for them. Not now though.
Same, my whole mindset has changed about them!
I am an ING Direct customer pretty much from the day they came to Australia, back in about 2000. I've always been a big fan of their savings products, as they had no fees, high interest, and the fee free ability to use any ATM is a massive bonus.
I have been using ING's 5%/2% cashback offer for almost everything I buy (apart from Woolworths Group eGift cards). If ING drop the cash back then I will never use the card for PayWave purchases again. A fee free credit card with 55 day interest free period is a much better financial option.
I understand why ING is going to pull the offer, but it won't change my decision.
Definitely not using ING DIRECT if they don't offer Cashback. Will use credit cards instead to earn points.
Leaving as well
My main reason to like ingdirect is the free atm everywhere in Australia :)
MeBank also offer this now.
But ME Bank's services are second-rate compared to ING, e.g. mobile app, customer service.
Thank god someone said it. Amen @daz.
Go and navigate your way around ME's internet banking, folks. Shocking.
Citibank as well I think - although I also read their service/app/site/phone is terribad.
Has this been confirmed by someone who uses ME? While their website says they do, under the T's&C's it says this: ^Free access at any ME ATMs and our preferred ATM network of Westpac, St.George, BankSA and Bank of Melbourne ATMs. Open your new Everyday Transaction Account & receive a refund on fees incurred at all other ATMs in Australia within 30 days of the transaction. We may change or withdraw this offer at any time.
Yep, will leave if this is the case
Or they could just reduce the cashback?
If they reduce it further, say to 1% or below, there may be no motivation to use it. E.g., I can already get 0.741% with fee-free card, plus I get interest-free days. See comment. So why would I bother to use my own money?
https://www.facebook.com/INGDIRECTAUS/posts/1167222823298937
Just my 2c worth on their FaceBook page…
You do realise as soon as you remove the 2% cash back that you are going to lose so many customers. Every single person I know who banks with ING DIRECT Australia or moved over to ING Direct only did so to get the 2% cash back and by removing this you now are no longer providing anything that we can not get anywhere else. You no longer have the highest interest rate and other banks with higher interest rates have also free ATM withdrawals. You stated the following on another Facebook post "This is why we’re offering referral friend bonuses” I would like to know, how we can refer friends to come over and use something that is not competitive and offers nothing more than other banks (with physical branches)? You also stated that "I can let you know that the 2% cashback is currently under review" so I will wait until the review is complete before I decide but I can tell you now… it was good while it lasted!!!
ING have been giving literally free money for years and now so many people want to jump ship. good luck with that
I can't tell if you're "defending" ING or the customers
Yes.
Wow, thanks for the heads up! I will most probably stop using the card if this happens, although will keep the bank account as it's fee free and relatively comparable for interest rate.
Guys, don't be surprised if ING are ahead of the pack again in the future. Like topping deposit interest rates over Ubank, ME, Rams etc. Or other useful offers.
Right now they have perhaps become uninteresting, but maybe worth keeping your accounts dorment.Agree with this completely. Which is why I won't close the account, since there is no cost in keeping it open.
Why not close the account so that you can take advantage of New sign up bonus in the future.
Won't they have records that you are not New, next time you try to open account?
I thought they even let you keep your login for 5 or 7 years after account closing, for online statements.
(Maybe I am confusing this with another bank)i am not sure if having too many credit cards will affect your credibility ?
Update: ING have softened their tune to say that the 2% cash back is now under review.
that is marketing speak for "we've already decided that we are going to remove the cashback"
Let's hope something in the middle,say maybe 1% cashback apply!
At 1%, there is no incentive to use the ING. Even using my fee-free Amex Essential, I am getting 0.741% back, plus interest-free days. I probably will not bother to use ING in that case.
1% is greater than 0.741%. I personally prefer the bigger number.
@dazweeja: Hi, I agree a bigger number is better. But I view the other hard to quantify benefits (e.g. price protection, refund protection, extended manufacturer warranty, chargeback if issues arise etc) to be worth a premium of 0.259% or more, to me at least. Clearly, this valuation is subjective, and vary from person to person.
@dazweeja: As we mentioned earlier. The interest free period fills the rest of the gap. Say 3% interest x 55/365 = 0.4521%
@bluesky:most people don't have to bother with any of that for 99% of the transactions that they are using paywave for.
@squeeb: That percentage only applies assuming you actually get the max interest free days.
In addition to that, if you are earning above the tax-free threshold, any interest you earn gets taxed.. so it's really no more than ~2.6% that you would be basing it off.
Agree. If ING were going to keep the cash back they would categorically state that.
Under review means that it will be removed.
Lowering it to 1% would not be an attractive feature to offer.
They are removing it, got the official mail from them today saying that!
That's a real shame if they're discontinuing the 2% cash back, although of course they have every right to do so. In my case, I also have a home loan with ING which is not at the most competitive interest rate. I was keeping it simply for the convenience of having all my banking with the one institution but if they remove the cash back it might be a good opportunity to find a better deal on the home loan.
Very unfortunate, the RBA decision on the interchange rate is definitely filtering through. Has we seen any benefits from that RBA decision except Airline scrapping their fixed credit card fees yet?
The 2% paywave cashback + 1% mortgage cashback were big factors in me choosing them as our homeloan provider.
Now that both of these will be gone, it's probably time to shop around as their interest rates are not the most competitive
WoW!! They already lowered the original Recruit a friend bonus interest from 3.5% to 3% and now this? Any other banks that offer cashback ? I also have savings account with them, so a bank with better interest rates would be better.
Recruit a friend?
@noskich:
Who's the highest?
UBank, ME or RAMS?