[Road Rules Vic] Who Should Give Way?

garffi on 27/10/2016 - 17:31
Last edited 29/10/2016 - 11:32 by 1 other user

So I drove on this road today, and was wondering if I should've given way.

Let's say I'm the black suv turning left in the picture, the white ute decides to do a U turn. Am I required to give way? After I drove off, no one behind me gave way to him.

Centre Dandenong & Lower Dandenong Roads Dingley Village

If I had got into an accident, who would be at fault? What should I have done?

Update: Thanks for all the comments. I wanted to be sure that I was doing the right thing by not giving way. :)

Edit: Now that my question is resolved. Just another question for those who wish to comment.

What would you do if the U-turner did not give way?

Would you have kept going because you're not at fault anyway. Or stop to avoid an accident but have a risk of getting rear-ended?

Poll Options

  • 6
    Give way
  • 174
    Don't stop, keep going
  • 3
    Bikies
Automotive

Comments

  • nocure on 27/10/2016 - 17:36
    +9

    You have a green arrow, I would assume he would have a "no u turn permitted" sign.

    • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 17:37

      Unfortunately there was no sign, which I find ridiculous.

      • nocure on 27/10/2016 - 17:38

        Report to council, what road?

        • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 17:45

          Central Dandenong Road going onto Cheltenham Road. Theres another road similar to this set up at the corner of Springvale IKEA.

        • exonerate on 27/10/2016 - 18:14
          +3

          @garffi: The corner of Springvale IKEA; where the black SUV car is Westall Road turning left, and the White Ute is Princes Hwy - does have a 'no u turn permitted' sign to prevent accidents.

        • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 19:35

          @exonerate: Oh really? I've never seen it… Maybe I need to go and have a proper look again.

        • gummibears on 27/10/2016 - 22:50
          +1

          @exonerate: Yep. I always look right when turning left from Westall rd because of idiots doing U-turns at that junction. Have experienced and witnessed a few near misses there.

        • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 23:28

          @exonerate: You're right. Man, these idiots doing U-turns are a hazard on the roads.

      • bananabendera on 27/10/2016 - 17:39
        +15

        In QLD if there is no sign a U-Turn is illegal.

        • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 17:47
          +16

          In Vic I think it's only illegal if there's a sign stating no U-turn.

        • rottnest on 28/10/2016 - 12:50
          +4

          In WA there must be a sign for U-turn, otherwise illegal.

      • kawinuyo on 28/10/2016 - 00:47
        +10

        There doesn't need to be a sign in NSW. U turn at traffic lights are illegal unless there is a sign say U turn PERMITTED.

        http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/inte…

        Take extra care when making U-turns as they can be dangerous. U-turns cannot be made:

        Where there is a NO U-TURN sign.
On motorways.
At traffic lights unless you see a U-TURN PERMITTED sign at the intersection.
Across an unbroken (continuous) line, double centre unbroken (continuous) lines, unless the line closest to you is broken.
        • cheapisgood on 28/10/2016 - 00:54
          +3

          Except this is a picture from Victoria which has the opposite of what the rest of Australia has.

          U turn permitted at intersections unless there's a sign prohibiting it. Personally I think this is a much better system. Most intersections are fine with u-turns.

        • kawinuyo on 28/10/2016 - 06:58

          @cheapisgood: ahh I see, wasn't sure when I commented which I'd why I put in NSW

        • cheapisgood on 28/10/2016 - 11:34

          @kawinuyo:

          I wonder why the rest of the country don't follow Victoria in regards to this rule.

        • cantanga on 29/10/2016 - 13:20

          @cheapisgood: Because they get money if you get caught.

    • tik tok on 28/10/2016 - 14:14
      +6

      Even if he had a U turn permitted sign, he would have to give way.
      If you are banging a U-ey you have to give way in all circumstances.

      • stumo on 29/10/2016 - 09:20

        This is the final answer. U turn is always the bottom of barrel for give way. They have to give way to everyone by law regardless of signs. Never let them in, I always just plant it straight in front of them as if they aren't there.

  • spackbace on 27/10/2016 - 17:40
    +7

    If you stopped for him, you'd interrupt the flow of traffic, likely someone would hit you from behind.

    With him doing a U-turn, he then is going through a red light in that lane of traffic, so his manoeuvre is illegal.

    • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 17:56
      +1

      That's what I thought too, it's a green arrow, I shouldn't have to give way.

    • Cheap Charlie on 27/10/2016 - 18:08
      +1

      With him doing a U-turn, he then is going through a red light in that lane of traffic, so his manoeuvre is illegal.

      In the interest of clarification, the white Navara is following the grey Hilux which may suggest there was a green turn signal for the turning lane the 4wd utes are in.

      I was under the impression u turn laws vary in some states, OP are you able to confirm if the above image is from VIC?

      • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 19:29

        Yes it's definitely in Vic, I just drove on the exact same road and went to look for the road on google maps.

    • picklewizard on 28/10/2016 - 09:24
      +4

      You're half right; he would likely have a green right-arrow as well (to turn into the street that OP is exiting).

      He's fully permitted to perform a U-turn, but should be giving way to any traffic he encounters.

    • MrMcHairyHead on 28/10/2016 - 09:54
      +3

      Him doing a U turn isn't illegal (as long as he has a green light to turn right). But he does have to give way.

  • battler on 27/10/2016 - 17:43
    +24

    20 seconds of google-fu…
    https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/road-r…

    You are allowed to make a U turn:
    - at intersections with traffic lights unless there is ‘no U-turn’ sign.
    When making a U-turn you must give way to all other vehicles and pedestrians.

    • Savas on 27/10/2016 - 17:47
      +1

      yes, but how would the u turn give way to the cars behind them?

      • Shwayne on 28/10/2016 - 02:13
        +4

        It's no different to when you're giving way when you need to turn right.

    • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 17:50
      +2

      Thanks for searching it up. The thing is, on a different road similar like this, my mum gave way and got rear-ended. But the insurance company said she wasn't at fault and did the right thing by giving way. -shrugs-

      • Savas on 27/10/2016 - 17:51
        -7

        yes, battler is obviously unaware other people know about "Google"

      • Cheap Charlie on 27/10/2016 - 18:09
        +2

        my mum gave way and got rear-ended. But the insurance company said she wasn't at fault

        Could the situation have been viewed as your mother was avoiding a potential collision?

        • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 19:31
          +2

          Oh that might be the reason. Now that explains why the insurance company said she wasn't at fault…

      • inherentchoice on 27/10/2016 - 19:10
        +1

        I actually think the insurance company was right. But perhaps your mother was turning left from a slip lane without a green/red left arrow?

        I have seen a few near accidents in a similar situation, but at intersections with a 'turn left any time' sign instead of a green arrow.

        You probably both had a green arrow at the same time, you to turn left, and the other vehicle to turn right.

        I suspect that Vic Roads needs to install a no U-turn sign at this particular intersection because it's dangerous? And if you write to them, they should at least reply to you to explain who needs to give way.

        • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 19:33

          The road mum drove on also had a green light. Yep we both were given the green light, perhaps the no u-turn sign would've fixed the issue. Yeah maybe I'll ask the council, because I often drive on this road…

        • inherentchoice on 27/10/2016 - 19:37
          +1

          @garffi: Hmm well I just found this:

          However, a driver who is turning at an intersection with traffic arrows showing a green traffic arrow need not give way to an oncoming vehicle if the driver is turning in the direction indicated by the green traffic arrow.

          http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_reg/rsrr200920…

          So therefore you were in the right.

        • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 20:25

          @inherentchoice: hmm interesting

      • Ughhh on 27/10/2016 - 20:34
        +10

        Your mum could've stopped for any reason, including avoiding potential collision, or because she thought you saw a cow on the road. The rear-ender would still be at fault because they should've left a safe space.

      • nith265 on 28/10/2016 - 15:30

        If you collide with anyone - even if the other party is breaking the law - you are typically deemed at least somewhat at fault when working out damages.

        Years ago I moved off from an intersection when the lights turned green, I clipped the back of a car that ran the red light from my right. The police gave him a ticket for running the red light (criminal law) and there were several witnesses. Despite this, his insurance company took it to court and just before the case it was settled 70% his fault, 30% my fault (civil law). I hit him and I had a duty of care to anticipate that someone might run the red light.

        • garffi on 28/10/2016 - 16:12

          Wow that sucks! You had to 'pay' because of an idiot breaking the law…

        • nith265 on 28/10/2016 - 17:06

          I only had 3rd party insurance at the time. With the percentage split I only got a couple hundred dollars out of the whole affair as his car suffered more expensive damage than mine (I had to pay 30% of his damage). My car was never properly repaired and sold for scrap a year later due to the damage.

          There was also an issue with my insurer as I was only insured against damgaging someone elses property - but I wasnt insured for fees associated with recovering my own costs. If it had gone to court with barristers fees etc I was going to be asked to pay a percentage of the legal costs used towards recovering my own loss. The whole thing was a nightmare for something that most people would say was completely not my fault.

          It's a good illustration of the misconception that just because someone breaks a road rule that everything from that point on is their fault - often doent work that way in court.

    • Storm on 27/10/2016 - 18:24
      +4

      Interesting. Opposite here in WA (only allowed where signs say you can do U-Turns).

      • apple2016 on 28/10/2016 - 15:46
        +1

        I actually hate this when different states have different rules!…

    • spersephone on 27/10/2016 - 20:57
      +8

      It's completely and utterly simple - U-turns must give way to all traffic. Unfortunately, that also means they can hold up traffic behind them, so personally I choose to not do a u-turn if this is going to be the result, unless it's going to be simple.

      I'm absolutely amazed that this is even a question, as someone with a green arrow is definitely not required to give way to a u-turn.

      • smpantsonfire on 27/10/2016 - 22:41

        Dw.

      • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 23:04

        Because I want to avoid an accident. And if I ever happened to get in one (because the guy doing the u-turn doesn't know the rules), I can now be confident to say that I'm not in the wrong.

      • dbun1 on 28/10/2016 - 17:21

        Yep - U-turn gives way to all traffic.

        The ute could pull forward and around enough to allow traffic to keep moving around him for the rest proceeding with the right hand turn.

    • sween64 on 28/10/2016 - 19:32

      What about an intersections with traffic lights but no median strips? As the gold Mercedes in this photo can I make a U-turn? I would've thought no. But the VicRoads website suggests I could.

      I use this intersection as an example because I did it and received a lot of strange looks.

    • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 17:53
      -1

      The council should really have a no U turn sign there… It'll solve the problem.

      • Storm on 27/10/2016 - 18:23
        -1

        If it's the same as WA, ALL U-Turns at lights are illegal. Don't need a sign here for people to know that.

        • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 20:26
          +1

          Nope, I'm in Vic, different rules apply here. U turn allowed unless sign says no

      • Skinnerr on 27/10/2016 - 23:11
        +1

        Why? I u-turn safely all the time. Some people are stupid, a sign wont change that.

        • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 23:20
          +1

          I wish there were more safe drivers like you. The guy's car was screeching when he did a U turn, made me thought he was losing control and was gonna zoom forward.

        • Skinnerr on 27/10/2016 - 23:24
          +1

          @garffi: Sucks but you have 2 options - Hit him full hard, and make sure to get his liscence plate to report to your insurance.
          2. Stop and potentially cause an accident from behind you. Unless you have proof of what he did like a dashcam or witness it can be hard to prove.

          Either way Id suggest getting one of those $50 gearbest dashcams. They can potentially save you trouble in the future.

        • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 23:34

          @thedude23: Option one seems like the plan. At least I know that I'm definitely not at fault. Guess I was lucky the car behind me was paying attention and didn't rear end me.
          Looks like I should invest in a dashcam just as a precaution. Thanks :)

    • Skinnerr on 27/10/2016 - 23:25
      +3

      Savas, you're 17 and dont even drive. Go do your homework…

    • Shwayne on 28/10/2016 - 02:15
      +1

      I suppose you just turn right into oncoming traffic because cars might come up behind you.

  • [Deactivated] on 27/10/2016 - 18:10
    +17

    In Vic, U-turns give way to everyone.

    • apple2016 on 27/10/2016 - 18:28

      yes this is correct U-Turn should give way.
      I have to do this quite frequently near my home.

    • [Deactivated] on 27/10/2016 - 19:04
      +4

      They are meant to. A surprising number of drivers seem unaware of this, both U-turners and those who give way.

      • spersephone on 27/10/2016 - 21:00
        +3

        There is a road that I travel on every day, and the majority of drivers do not give way when doing a u-turn. The angle of this turn blocks people trying to turn right from another street. Unfortunately, the people who they should be giving way to, generally give way to them instead, to avoid a collision. Which just perpetuates the myth that the u-turner should go first!!!!!!!!!!

        • [Deactivated] on 27/10/2016 - 23:50
          +2

          I should probably add/correct myself that if a car on a main road does a legal u-turn, traffic from a side street must give way to traffic already on the road they are entering, so u-turners are the lowest ranking cars already on that road, traffic from a side street ranks even lower :) TBH I avoid u-turns altogether, myself.

        • sky blu on 28/10/2016 - 12:03

          @Frugal Rock: Thanks. I was waiting for someone to confirm this hierarchy.

        • apple2016 on 28/10/2016 - 15:51
          +1

          @Frugal Rock: This is true when you are entering a street from drive way etc. but not in traffic lights. For side streets usually you have a give-way triangle sign post to clarify things.

        • stumo on 29/10/2016 - 09:27
          -2

          @apple2016:
          Exactly, the give way triangle for the car entering from the side street trumps the u turner already on the main road. So the previous comment is more u turn BS. Just floor it straight in front of the u turner, every time.

        • [Deactivated] on 29/10/2016 - 09:59
          +1

          @stumo:
          I think you woke up grumpy and wrong. 'Side street' under the VicRoads own rules denotes an implied give way situation. It wouldn't even be a technical side street if there were lights, but you are spraying BS around like a boss. Find a situation where there is a give way sign or broken give way stripes at an intersection where there are lights :p The BS is all yours.

        • stumo on 29/10/2016 - 10:35

          @Frugal Rock:

          Find a situation where there is a give way sign or broken give way stripes at an intersection where there are lights :p

          Ummm i dont know, maybe any one of the thousands of intersections where there is a free left turn with giveway, bypassing the lights on an island?

        • apple2016 on 29/10/2016 - 10:47
          +1

          @stumo: free left turn slip lane in lights is not side street unless posted with give way sign.

        • [Deactivated] on 29/10/2016 - 10:49

          @stumo:
          You might want to actually familiarise yourself with the formal definition of 'side street' within the context of road rules. You've just contradicted it.

    • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 20:27

      Oh that's good to know. Next time I'll know what to do if this happened again

    • TheGloriousOne on 28/10/2016 - 22:33

      I want to ask your thoughts on the situation where a u-turn is giving way to a car turning left at a give way sign.

      I generally accept that u-turns must give way to everything, but I thought cars at give way signs also need to give way to everything?

  • whooah1979 on 27/10/2016 - 18:20

    I'm the black suv turning left in the picture

    Am I blind? Where is the black Ute?

    • Cheap Charlie on 27/10/2016 - 18:30

      SUV

      SUV is not a great description of a soft roader, however that is how they are marketed
      Toyota was using the term AUV (Action Utility Vehicle) to describe the Hilux for a period of time.

      SUV (A sport utility vehicle or suburban utility vehicle (SUV) is a vehicle classified as a light truck, but operated as a family vehicle)

    • fossilfuel on 27/10/2016 - 18:33

      SUV =/= ute

      • captobvious on 27/10/2016 - 18:38
        +8

        SUV = soccer mum

  • Storm on 27/10/2016 - 18:22

    In W.A. it's illegal to do a U-Turn at lights, unless there's a specific U-Turn Permitted sign. Even with a sign, you would definitely had right of way.

    If a cop had seen him here, he'd be jumped on straight away.

    • spersephone on 27/10/2016 - 21:01
      +1

      I almost never do u-turns at lights because I believe it's just too dangerous. Because it is actually not illegal here in Victoria (except where there is a sign stating you can't), my husband thinks I'm mad to avoid them. I think they're dangerous to pedestrians and other traffic.

  • timthetoolman on 27/10/2016 - 19:11
    +3

    It's alarming that 3 people would have stopped for this guy doing a U-Turn and held up traffic despite him having to give way. I feel like I meet these kinds of people far too often

  • trustnoone on 27/10/2016 - 19:31

    I could be very wrong but it looks like he is doing a U-turn at a traffic light which I always thought was illegal.

    I was always taught you can't U-turn if there is a car turning as well (basically where you're turning), since as you say, there is no way to know whether the car is doing a u-turn or is just turning like all the others.

    • Banana on 27/10/2016 - 19:44
      +3

      In Vic you can do a u-turn unless there is a 'No U-turn' sign.

      • trustnoone on 27/10/2016 - 19:46

        Really? I never knew that, thats interesting to know though, cheers.

      • shadowarrior on 27/10/2016 - 23:03
        +1

        Yeah, and it was confusing in QLD where it's the opposite. You can't do a U-turn unless it has a sign that allows you to make an u-turn :)

  • cuppaciano on 27/10/2016 - 21:48

    It should be a "U-turn must give way" situation

  • [Deactivated] on 27/10/2016 - 22:06

    U turn must give way

  • Hirolol on 27/10/2016 - 22:49

    Hmm
    Ive always wondered about this where instead of a green arrow the sign is give way.
    Some people have told me that the car doing the u turn must always give way but then wouldn't the give way sign overwrite that? Thus entering a never ending loop of giving way to each other. (Jk, I seriously want to know if anyone has any idea?)

    • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 23:06

      inception

    • Banana on 27/10/2016 - 23:31
      +1

      Sometimes they have the u-turn must give way sign.
      Other time I think the same rule still applies if you think of it like the car performing a u-turn is like a car entering a roundabout—-must give way to those that are already in the roundabout?

  • shadowarrior on 27/10/2016 - 23:02

    You have right of way…following a continuous path…he is changing direction to enter your path. He has to wait till all traffic in the path he is entering is clear, then completes his U-turn. I'd be surprised if where he is standing, even permits an U-turn legally.

    • garffi on 27/10/2016 - 23:25

      Yeah, it's a weird place to do a U-turn. The traffic lights before it was only like 100m away?

    • Hirolol on 28/10/2016 - 06:26

      You are wrong.

  • DarkOz on 28/10/2016 - 06:33
    +1

    U-Turning is one of the lowest priorities on the road. So yeah you don't give way to that white ute unless you are super nice and want to be honked at by the cars behind you.

    • garffi on 28/10/2016 - 10:07

      Ok got it :) Unless that U-turner is an idiot and tries to drive into me…

  • gstfree on 28/10/2016 - 08:09
    +3

    In VIC, U turn must give way. However if an idiot is not giving way, let it go. Your safety and time is very high priority.

    • garffi on 28/10/2016 - 10:09

      I agree. That's why I stopped just in case but continued driving after seeing him not moving.

  • picklewizard on 28/10/2016 - 09:21

    I cannot believe the volume of misinformation in this thread; I'm concerned that so many people do not know one of the most fundamental road rules!

    U-turns ALWAYS give way! ALWAYS!

    OP: You had a green light, why would you think you're required to give way to the ute?

    • Gershom on 28/10/2016 - 10:08
      +1

      U-turns ALWAYS give way! ALWAYS!

      Yep, to ALL other vehicles.

    • garffi on 28/10/2016 - 10:16

      Idk because if you imagined it was a slip, I'd have to give way to traffic coming on the right. The U-turner looked like he was going to hit into me, with his car screeching and all. Just wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing, and in the case of an accident, I would not be at fault.
      P.S I haven't been driving long, better late than never :)

      • pais on 28/10/2016 - 12:43

        FYI U-turns even have to give way to slip lanes. Old mate in the ute should wait.

        There's a lot of confusion from interstaters in this thread giving wrong information about whether the guy can even make a u-turn here. I know the exact intersection. He can perform a u-turn, but he must give way.

        (With that said, you see (profanity) perform u-turns that basically force their way into traffic all the time which is probably where half the confusion coms from)

        • garffi on 28/10/2016 - 12:47

          That's why I'm confused. U-turners forcing their way through makes me think whether I'm legally required to give way or not…

        • pais on 28/10/2016 - 12:56
          +1

          @garffi:

          Yep. If there was an accident, u-turn would be at fault since he must give way to all other vehicles and pedestrians.

          With that said, when I see someone doing a u-turn in a situation like this, I'm mindful of their propensity to pull out in front of me because of this confusion. This generally means you should be ready to engage the brakes in order to prevent an accident, but otherwise don't give way to them. It's nice to be right, but it's better to avoid the accident if that's what it comes to.

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