Hey Guys,
I recently got my Ps and am a bit unsure as to what the laws mean to me, with respect to the use of mobile phones while driving in NSW.
I dont plan on using my phone while driving, rather I plan on using an ipod touch (no 3g ability) to connect to my car via bluetooth and play music.
Just wanting your opinion on whether you think this is legal?
I completely understand what you mean and was leaning towards what you've suggested as well. I'm 23 and just got my P's ( embarassin, I know :P) I just dont wanna lose my license over something stupid. It just really sucks that they dont address this scenario anywhere.
NSW = Nanny State gone Wild
It is weird. It looks a lot like age discrimination to me, especially as a lot of the restrictions don't apply to mature new licensees.
I remember being a stupid teen driver, and how I mysteriously stopped getting booked after I turned about 20. It is just a willingness of the government to enact nuisance laws on the slightest justification, because the bulk of the voting public don't like young hoons, so they might as well make it a hassle for every young person.
I'd be better about it if they were a bit more serious about older drivers, who can apparently be trusted to drive locally but not far away when their capabilities are failing and don't have to sit a capability test until 85yro, and only if you want to drive further afield. I'm not clear how a 99yro can safely drive to the shops 4km away, but not 6km away?
Same as you can drive safely at 60 but not 65 (KPH). Or you are Smart if you score 50 out of a 100 but Dumb if you score 49…
@psterio. Lets hope you aren't a p-plate driver as you would be surprised that in Victoria the same "ridiculous" law applies
From Vic Roads
Victoria’s mobile phone rules
Learner, P1 and P2 driversLearner, P1 and P2 drivers must not use a mobile phone (hand-held or hands-free) for any function while driving (including while stationary but not parked).
No, I'm not a P-plate driver - back when I was on my P's, a few years ago, was when they first introduced P1 and P2, but the laws back then were much more lax. Basically the only ones which I really cared for were the 0.00 BAC instead of 0.05 BAC, and the rule against overpowered cars. Both fair enough and not really all that much of a hassle.
When I say ridiculous, though, I mean things such as P1 in NSW only being allowed to go at 80km/h. Ridiculous. We don't have that rubbish here in VIC. Not trying to say VIC is better than NSW (many things I prefer in NSW, having spent a lot of time in Sydney), but P1 in NSW is worse than P1 in VIC.
Err it's 90km/h. Even learners can do that. Still, a ridiculous and dangerous speed limitation, especially on freeways.
If you have the iPod tucked away in the glove box or centre console it should not be an issue.
I don't think you are allowed to operate it while driving.
I'm surprised that the NSW Transport website makes no mention of this kind of situation. You'd best get in contact with them for a firm answer - if it isn't set in stone, I'd err on the side of caution.
Bear in mind, as well; an iPod Touch has every bit of access to social media as a phone does - granted, you'd have to tether a phone to it. In the eyes of the law, I don't think they give the Australian people the benefit of the doubt. Especially in NSW, I've heard!
My plan was to have it tucked away in the glove box, will call transport nsw to be safe. Thanks for the help! Will update if i get a confirmed answer :)
Did you explicitly state you will be chucking it into your glove box? Pairing via BT and playing music is completely different than having an iPod in a cradle in your window. The police officer may have misunderstood you if you weren't clear enough.
Yeh i even clarified when he said no, i said it'll be locked away in the glove box so I wont even be tempted to touch it or anything and he still said no.
If it's paired before you start driving & then stays in your glove box the whole time (ie: not even changing music through the device/looking down at the screen for gps or anything like that), I don't see why you'd have anything to explain or get pulled over by cops in the first place.
Even if you get pulled over for an RBT or something unrelated, I doubt they would question whether the music was coming from a Bluetooth device they can't see vs music from the radio…
I'm on an open licence in qld & have music playing from my phone (visable, resting in the console between the driver & passenger seats) all the time, never had a problem when pulled over for an RBT or anything. I do know people who've gotten pulled over for using their phone at red lights though (actually looking at & reading things on their phone)
@DisneyPrincess: I completely agree RE: phone tucked away in glove box. Legally, I don't know - but I sincerely doubt an Officer is going to check where the source of music is coming from.
Have a read of this for a start I guess.
http://www.keepyoureyesontheroad.org.au/pages/NSW-laws
It's a bit vague, but I think it states as a provisional driver you can't use a phone at all. I think they need to amend the term mobile phone to include touchscreen or "smart" devices, as I'm sure if a cop pulled you over for something, they're not going to care that you were only changing a track on an iPod. It's still a distraction from the road.
However if you just set it to play and then tuck it away then that would be fine.
Thanks for the help guys! I just checked with the cops and they said you're not allowed to use anything that is a potential distraction from the road. So that includes and ipad or an ipod and if a cop pulls you over he can classify it as an offense. This kinda sucks coz it means I gotta listen to the goddamn radio for the next 3 years, so here's hoping i don't kill myself in that same period.
But would you be 'using' your iPod when you drive? I make a playlist (on repeat) on my phone beforehand, so I'll never have to touch my phone when I'm driving.
I think what the cop meant was you literally using it (changing music, tapping on the screen etc.) while driving, because then that'll be a distraction just like a phone.
Just use a USB drive (if of course there is a port). I really do miss being able to use hands free calling but I guess that's the way it is.
The reason I cant use a USB is coz I use spotify for my music, and a USB really doesnt help in this scenario
Did you say it would be in the glove box, or just ask if the same rules apply to an ipod? I think the main issue is if you are checking texts/emails (phones) or choosing tracks (ipod) while driving, that is definitely distracting and illegal. Playing music while not accessing your device (ie bluetooth connection to a phone of ipod) should be no different than pressing play or skipping forward on a CD or changing channels on a radio.
I understand states have different laws and I'll I will admit I'm not aware of P-plate rules, but most states allow the use of a phone as a hands free device while driving. So if the phone is in a holder (or glovebox) and you don't touch the device while driving you can play music, answer phone calls using the cars controls, or even use your phone as a GPS.
The distinction is that You don't touch the device while driving
A quick google search shows that P-Platers in NSW:
Learner, P1 and P2 licence holders are not permitted to use a mobile phone at all while driving or riding. This includes when waiting at traffic lights or stuck in traffic. You must be parked out of the line of traffic to use your phone in any way.
The way I read that is that you could start playing music before you exit the car park.
http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/mobilepho…
I did confirm about the glove box and he kinda hinted that a cop can choose to still count it as being illegal as its an electronic device that can be a potential dostraction. A bit silly if you ask me tbh.
If you start it before you head off and put it away and don't touch it until you're at your destination it should be ok. You're just not allowed to fiddle with it while driving.
Technically still against the law tho.
How is that "technically" against the law?
Isn't it because you're still using the device in some sense? Tbh the rule needs to be a bit more specific.
@TheOneWhoKnocks: I think you're misinterpreting the word "use" with "operational". Have a read of this page:
@kevmev12: I don't understand your point.
NSW road rules were changed on 1 Dec 2016 for P2 drivers. Learner, P1 and P2 drivers must not use mobile phones for any function while driving or riding or while stationary (at traffic lights)
Any function, e.g. listening to music. At the end of the day it's pretty much up to the discretion of the officers.
@TheOneWhoKnocks: It means if you have your L's/P1's/P2's you cannot touch your phone at all while the car is moving or stopped at the lights - not even if it's mounted on a designated car phone mount. You can have your phone playing music if you start it up and put it in your glove box or centre console before you take your car off park, you just can't touch it anymore until you park your car.
@TheOneWhoKnocks: If you want to argue the meaning of the words "any function", then one of the primary functions of a mobile phone is to receive phone calls. Are you saying all L/P plate drivers are breaking the law by having a mobile phone inside their car? After all, a phone is "in use" whilst waiting for a phone call.
@kevmev12: Well the two obvious functions of discussion here is phone calls and music. I am merely using the terms stated in the law. If you have a problem with the wording in the law, you're asking the wrong person champ.
@TheOneWhoKnocks: I don't have a problem with the wording in the law, but it seems like your interpretation of the words "any function" encompasses literally all functions of the phone; and the word "use" seems to mean "on" for you.
As I said before, if you have your L's/P1's/P2's you cannot touch your phone at all while the car is moving or stopped at the lights - not even if it's mounted on a designated car phone mount, not even if it's in the centre console. Just don't touch it, that's all there is.
The answer I got was the iPod is still a distraction as its an electronic device. The cop basically said to read the law as no use of an electronic device apart from a mounted GPS.
To me, the law basically says you can't touch your mobile "while" driving, meaning having your mobile plugged in playing music is ok as long as you are not touching it while driving (OP indicated he will place the iPod touch on the glove box).
Few posts above says this is still breaking the law as you are "still" using your mobile, doesn't the same rule apply even if you have your mobile in your pocket while still powered on? It's still actively/working checking phone calls/sms.
Cops made it clear that you cannot use your phone even for music via bluetooth, reason being if it can play music, it can recieve calls which you can answer so that is definitely not allowed.
Get real people.
Its a music player, its not a mobile phone. Its in the glovebox, and connected by bluetooth.
The only issue would be on how the music is accessed, should the OP want to change tracks.
If the access is via bluetooth, like many new car audio devices, then the police probably wouldn't even see it to even think about it. My 2013 Camry is set up with an old iPod and it is controlled by the steering wheel buttons.
Now if the OP plans to use the ipod itself to change the music, sound etc. That being by pressing the buttons on the iPod, then as he found out
I just checked with the cops and they said you're not allowed to use anything that is a potential distraction from the road.
So if its controlled through the audio system you should be fine. If not then every p plater would potentially be fined for using anything in the car - e.g. winding up windows, changing volume on the radio. (Yep the same radio the OP says they are now condemned to use)
Use commonsense.
I've pretty much decided to do what you've described. Start music, put it in the glovebox and dont touch it. The way i see it there's no way that this is a distraction coz im not physically touching the iPod and don't have the temptation to either. I can control the music from the steering wheel so really at no point am I taking my eyes off the road so I kinda feel like this is something I wont get pulled up for.
I think it said specifically for phones, so workarounds like MP3 players without calling/texting mechanisms should be ok. But could be up to the cop's discretion. They could classify the easy access to social media or things like whatsapp close enough to a phone. I don't think there's any specific rule preventing people using a tablet or laptop but it's obviously not allowed. They really should say any touchscreen device other than a dedicated GPS.
If you're not using it as a GPS they won't see the ipod touch anyway. Just have it tucked out of the way.