Monthly Expenses - Excessive? How's Yours?

So, nothing much on this weekend and thanks to crappy Sydney weather, I decided to do some analysis on my household expenses.
The result is rather shocking to me because it is (much) higher than I thought my household spend each month.
My household consists of 2 adults + 1 toddler.

Based on my analysis (8-month worth of data), on average we spend ~$3500/month.
The figures exclude:

  1. Child care
  2. Accommodation (mortgage/rents)
  3. Council rate
  4. Health insurance
  5. Car insurance

but includes pretty much everything else:
1. eating out (and drinks) = $570,
2. entertainment = $90,
3. clothing = $220,
4. groceries = $510,
5. transport (petrol + public transport + parking) = $270,
6. water rates = $60
7. electricity & gas = $130
8. communication = $145
9. Health/beauty = $350
10.Car maintenance = $30
11.Education = $40
12.Gift/donations = $170
13.Home repairs/improvements = $305 (had a medium job done in Dec)
14.Tools/equipments = $110
15.Cash Withdrawal = $200 (for buying stuff at markets or at places that do not accept cards)
16.etc

I'd be interested to get some ideas from fellow Ozbargainers if my average monthly spending (or any of the categories mentioned above) looks excessive or not.
If you want to share how much your household spend each month, please comment below.

P.S. Please refrain from voting if you only use your 'impression' to judge whether it is excessive or not and/or don't have idea how much approx you spend monthly (as close as apple vs apple comparison as possible) to keep the result as objective as possible.

UPDATED 8/3 more categories added

Cheers

Poll Options

  • 217
    Yes - Excessive!
  • 121
    No - About right
  • 44
    No - Below my monthly household spending

Comments

  • What does 'entertainment include'? Foxtel plus Cinemas?

    If you going to the move regularly, you could try to go Tuesday nights for cheaper tickets, $14 instead of approx $24.

    • +1

      Thanks for the suggestion. Yes I do use Telstra Thanks $10/tix.

      Entertainment in this category = cinema/movies, concerts (rare), admission to attractions (e.g. zoo/aquarium), etc.

      • Looking at it a bit more, with the overall amount, we probably spend a bit less, perhaps $2800 (taking out rent, and don't have the other expenses), but we are just a married couple without any kids so thats likely the difference. So I think it is pretty reasonable.

  • Seems low for 2 + 1 in Sydney, we pay ~3500/month in rent alone.

    • -6

      This. Mortgage payment for 500k loan is around $3k a month (principal+interest), half that if you just pay interest or you're lower than 250k loan.

    • +14

      The figure above does not include mortgages/rents though..

    • +2

      $850+ a week in rent ? Do your realise how insane that is ?

      • +26

        Not insane for Sydney.

        • +9

          Just because it's standard doesn't mean it isn't insane

        • +2

          @andyholloway:

          Emm… yes it is, that's how 'insane' is derived. Like if everybody could run 100m in less than 10 sec would you say Usain Bolt's speed is insane?

          Back 30-40 years ago in dial-up age, downloading at 20Mbps speed would be insane. Now it isn't, because it is standard.

        • +5

          @wildstone:

          downloading at 20Mbps speed
          standard

          Lol, not in this country.

        • @wildstone:

          Sane for Sydney is like saying sane for the nut house though.

          Sure you're as sane as your neighbor but…

      • docklands in Victoria has this type of rent per week.

        • $850 for rent is standard for Sydney

        • You're right, 3 bedroom apartments are around that price and more.

          2 bedroom however, you can get $500-$700

        • @howieyo: thanks mate, it's good to know.

  • +3

    Communication… $145? Cant knock $50 - $70 off that?

    • +7

      Lets see.. Monthly we spend 40 for my mobile 30 for my partner, 70 for internet. Forgot whats the 5 for. Prob buying additional data during the month etc.
      I thought this figure is fairly normal? How much do you spend?

      • -5

        Those all seem quite high - although depends how much data you're using.

        I'm on AldiMobile at $15 a month, however that only provides 500mb data which could be too little if you're not on wi-fi at most times like me. They do offer more generous plans though for <$40

        $70 for internet in a non-regional area also seems far too high

        • Need to take into account cost of the actual phone.

        • @rochow:

          Good point. But for this exercise, I removed "one-off" big purchases and mobile phones fall into this category, although my partner and I usually change phone every 2 years or so.

          If included, probably will add about $50-$60/month to our communication household expenses

        • @OzFrugie: That's a lot of exclusions then :) Phone / lifespan = monthly cost.

          For just plan alone you can do far better, especially being in a big city where competition is more even.

        • +3

          @rochow:

          Honestly, I am bit surprised that my household Communications expenses are deemed excessive here.
          I know that obviously it can be cheaper by using deals like what @railspider mentioned above for example, but I dont think I want to port my numbers every month (convenience vs cost, I guess).

          NBN $70/month seems to be one of the lowest plan for 25 DL/ 5 UL speed I could find at the time.
          Again, I know I can save further by choosing 12 DL / 1 UL speed but I dont want to have NBN connection slower than my previous ADSL..

        • +1

          @OzFrugie: I'm paying like $18/month at Vaya (Optus) for 3GB and unlimited calls. I don't bounce around providers often, every few years.

          Unless you have bigger data in your plan.

        • +2

          @rochow:

          Ah I see. Forgot to mention that I am with Telstra Freedom plan and I like the fact that it can use the credit for in-app purchases in Google Play. So far I use it for PIA VPN and buy apps here and there. Soon I will use it for Dropbox/Google Drive.

        • +2

          @OzFrugie:

          I think communication expenses are reasonable here, I live in a household of 6 so can't quite do a like for like comparison but if I'm talking about myself only, i'm $30 telstra freedom (goes to netflix/google play music for the family) and the home internet is $90 a month for unlimited optus cable.

          I mean you could cut out costs on both of them but the quality of service would also suffer…

        • @rochow: wow how did you get 3gb for 18$? Vaya 3GB now is $26. and I had them for 2 years. before was live connected before they made the $20 jumps

        • @Dnkei: they had 30% off for a few months. I think 8GB was like $5 more which is good value but I shouldn't even use 3 so false saving :)

        • +1

          @OzFrugie:

          Try getting skymesh to pricematch Aussie Broadband.

          $55 per month. 100gb. 25 speed

        • @OzFrugie: maybe use your left over credit on my offer here? https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/288905

          Save 50% on your mobile costs

        • @OzFrugie:

          My NBN is $100 a month for 100/40 unlimited DL

      • -1

        $50 for NBN internet and phone.. 50gb mth.
        Mobile… only have an as you go plan with $0 plan charge and 12c min calls and text for 2 phones … very low usage so only a couple of $ a month.
        Mobile data .. scored a heap of the $1 deals when they are on offer and use them in a separate phone… currently using a Kogan $1 sims (30 days unlim calls & txt & 14GB data)
        So total mth communication $55 ish.

        With mobile it depends on what you actually need or use. Many offers now have unlimited calls & txt so it would be just your data use to be considered. Those old plans where they included $??? worth of calls at their insane connection and time rate are now old hat.
        What is your mobile data need?

        • +1

          Wow I never know about this $1 Kogan deals (not Ozbargainer enough eh?).
          Although does it mean that you would need to port your number every 30 days (once it expires)??
          Seems lots of hassle?

        • @OzFrugie:
          No. I use 2 phones… one has the as you go plan with my regular number and on the other i use the cheap sims for their data and if i want to have a lengthy chat. I get a new # with every sim on that one. I leave the 2nd phone in the car.

      • +1

        Nah I'd say that's pretty reasonable. I'm in pretty much the same boat, $60 for internet and $40 for my phone bill.

      • Two person household here. Our comms bill is:
        $160 (2x 70-80ish) - we both are heavy data consumers on commute. Both of us have ~8Gigs/month (of which we use about 6-7gigs; we do get onto Wifi as soon as we get home; it's all Netflix/Spotify HD and Youtube traffic). We also make a lot of international calls (family spread across the world), so our plan accounts for that.
        $70 Interwebz- 100mbps up/40 down; unlimited. Considering we go through about 700-800ish Gigs a month, not too hard to justify.

        So IMHO, you folks are doing okay.

      • I'm on a Kogan 12 month plan for which I pay $23 a month and get 10gb data, unlimited calls and text. This was a recent promo. Just have to keep your eye out for them.

      • I pay $50 for TPG 100GB, more than enough for 2 ppl (esp you have foxtel). I spend 25-30 for my prepaid phone.

  • +23

    $570 on eating out and drinks???????????????????????????????????????

    This amounts to a weekly mortgage repayment!

    Seriously…. W.T??????

    I'm going assume that this is monthly though, but still works out to $131 a week

    • +1

      Yes that's average monthly figure for the past 8 months.
      Sometimes buying our lunch if no food prepared or leftovers and eating out on the weekends (2 meals) plus occasional splurge (fine dining) for special occasions

    • +7

      OK, looks like a lot of people agree that $131/wk spend (for 2.5 persons), which is about $52/week/person on eating out (and drinks) is excessive.

      Which makes me wonder how much do you spend per week on average (per person)?

      • +1

        It depends where your living I guess. That said $50 doesn't get you all that much these days. I got takeaway the other week from this fantastic Thai restaurant. It was $48.95. I did get 5 meals out of it though.

        • +1

          +1 for this idea. Get takeaway food and then bulk them up with extra vegetables that you stir fry at home, etc. This gives you the taste of the takeway with the goodness of the veggies. This works really well for things like curries. That said $131 a week would not be unusual for us for eating out. However, the clothes allowance is well outside my range. Then again I spend most of my time in T-shirts, Jeans/cargo pants, Kathmandu tops and sandles/runners. (BTW I am female).

      • +3

        Don't think that's excessive by any stretch of imagination.

        A dinner at someplace decent, will easily set you back $100 for two people (again Sydney prices; IDK what the prices would be in the boondocks).

        Having lunch while at work, even a couple of times a week could easily set you back $30 bucks per person (based on typical food court prices @CBD).

      • +2

        It's a fair bit of money of course but I don't think it's excessive at all. It's easy to spend $80/week for a working person on coffees and lunches alone. The real question is, would you be happy to give up this habit and start making your own lunches/dinners instead (which won't be free either so your grocery spend will go up). Most people really enjoy their meals away from home, I would focus on getting the best telco/utilities deals. Also, I suddenly started to save $35/week by taking the pushbike to work - it's not for everyone but I much prefer cycling to work now than waiting for public transport.

    • +2

      Because some people just don't know how or don't want to cook:
      Eating out every day:
      $8-$10 lunch
      $10-$15 dinners
      x 7 (week) = $157 * 2 people = $314

      and this is CHEAP meals, in Sydney you can easily go above that. especially dinners $18-$25

      • +1

        Your calculation is missing breakfast :P

        • +7

          Ain't got no time or money for that

  • +5

    Only $270 for transport? You're doing something right there.

    • Not a long commute for me and partner. Live around 30 min drive and public transport to place of work.
      Doesnt have petrol hungry vehicle though driving on peak hours.. Average speed only 27 kmph!

      • +5

        If it takes you 30 mins drive to work at an average speed for 27km/h, have you considered cycling to work?

        • That's dangerous!

  • +19

    Looks about right to me actually. But keep in mind this is ozbargain and overwhelmingly the audience are tightsreses who will frown at you for spending your money. So expect a poll result as such :)

    I'm also a 2 adult + 1 baby and know the pain of expenditure. We find the biggest monthly savings are in the eating out and entertainment areas. Since we had the baby we only eat out once a week at most which is actually saving us a lot. Compared to our pre-baby lives. Also entertainment costs for a baby are cheap but I can imagine for a toddler and growing child this will only get worse.

    $90 a month on entertainment seems pretty reasonable when you have a toddler. Movies are a killer though. Such a ripoff now days.

    We have made good savings recently changing where we buy fruit and veg. Supermarkets are often 30-40% more expensive on basic fruit and veg. In Melb we started shopping at proper markets for this stuff and are saving heaps per week not to mention the quality and freshness is way better.

    Anyway it's a good post OP because it highlights Aus is an expensive place to live, even with modest living standards.

    • Cheers, Skramit.

      Being a household of 2 adults + 1 little kid also, I'd be very interested in knowing your household average monthly expenditure, esp. being in Melbourne (comparable to Sydney).

      • According to my online analyser per month for the last 6 months.

        Groceries $865
        Entertainment $828
        Personal $649
        Gifts $242
        Utilities $212
        Clothing $202
        Food $194
        Travel $154
        Car $121
        Total $3,466

        Note some of the categorisations are different, its all based on the categories in the system I use.

        • What online system do you use?

          Thanks for sharing

        • @OzFrugie:

          Pocketbook.

          I used to use ANZ Money Manager which was 10x better but they closed it down last year :(

        • @Skramit:

          I see, I heard of that one before. Have you tried other systems like YNAB, PocketSmith, Mint, etc?
          YNAB looks interesting but USD 50/year :(

        • +1

          @OzFrugie:

          Nah haven't tried the others. PB works pretty well, just that the analytics tools are a bit….. ummm… simple. Not much customisation of the analysis. Only gives you basic totals for time periods.

          ANZ money manager was awesome because it gave you net worth statements, much easier to read net income analysis per month or customised time periods and a whole lot of other reports.

          PB only gives you very basic income vs outgoing analysis which is very handy but it's just quite basic.

          Also the categorisation is a bit annoying as you can only categorise 1 transaction at a time OR all of the same type at once, you cant seem to pick say 5 and categorise 5 at once which is annoying :P

          PB also has a budgeting tool which I set up but don;t really use. It also has "bills" feature which tells you when upcoming bills are due….. which also isn't that handy for me as I use direct debit on all my regular bills.

        • @Skramit:

          If you liked ANZ Money Manager try moneycenter.yodlee.com, ANZ was using them in the background just rebadged as ANZ :) I was also a big fan of ANZ MM and I use Yodlee now which is exactly the same thing.

        • @OzFrugie:
          Money brilliant has been pretty good for me in the last half year I've been using it. Better than PB from memory but last time I used it was a couple years ago.

          The mobile app isn't the best but the browser app is quite good.

        • @raspudala:

          Wow thanks for the tip :)

        • You could download all your online banking transactions into .CSV file for all your different banks accounts / Creditor cards and use Xero's 30 day trial and import them all in :)

          My results are normally pretty depressing though :(

        • @Skramit:

          General question to you guys as I am handling expenses calculation the spreadsheet way at the moment, how save would you rate those services like PB in terms of data protection and leaving a big footprint of yourself online especially if using google as your login? Was digging around and kinda liked the idea of having how PB works and filters all transactions.

        • @katzensprung:

          I accept that PB knows everything about my finances but then again so does Google by scanning my gmail, and my bank does and many other financial institutions where I apply for a credit card. Etc etc.

          So TBH I gave up giving a shit a long time ago :P

        • @ignitemusic:

          Hows your experience using Xero so far? I did give it a try before but looks like geared more towards businesses and accounting rather than personal finance

    • +1

      movies aren't too bad. Get a free telstra sim to get $12.50 tickets.

  • +1

    It really depends on how much you earn vs how much you spend vs how much you save. Do you save any money at all?

    • +3

      Yes, I do still save some money. But that's only because my partner and I both work. If one of us stops working for whatever reasons, then we will be doomed lol

  • 2 A + 2 Kids under 5.
    Total $4500 - $5000 excluding mortgage.
    Just started this month to look on this analysis to find out why too much expense as we don't spend as much as it looks.

    • This is indeed the case. Before I did the analysis, I didnt have the insights based on facts, just based on guesses.
      Doing this analysis while bit tedious at times, has been a really eye-opener and will lead to household initiative to save costs!

      • So which app or xls template are you using. i found couple of over the google but not what i am after… Daily + monthly + yearly with graphics and all detailed reports.

        • +3

          I just do a basic one from scratch in Excel, nothing fancy.
          1. Export the transactions from your bank account (csv)
          2. Convert to Excel file
          3. Categorise each transactions
          4. Pivot table
          5. Voila!

        • +1

          See my comment, further down,on the best one I found here.

          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/4503436

  • +1

    you live in Sydney..that sounds about right to me

    Perhaps you can shave off some in the entertainment department but the other costs sound spot on

    • May I know how much your household spends on Entertainment per month as a comparison?

  • +1

    The recipe tends to be:

    Earnings $100, spending $99.99. Result, happiness

    Earnings $100, spending $100.01. Result, misery

    Sounds like $3500 is low, I don't separate out but ALL living expenses work out for me as around 80% of income, leaving me with leeway each month.

    TL:DR, Doesn't matter as long as you live within your means

    • How if one loses his/her job? I tend to save more and close to 50% of my salary to be able to mortgage a house next year. I'm also worried about my job as I'm a contract-based salary earner (next 16 months sort of guaranteed). Single, no kids, close to $2000 on everything (including rent; uninsured person living in a unit with car). Data from last year I calculated. Amex deals have increased my spending a bit this year and getting out of control.

      • +2

        Saving 50% of salary during times of plenty is good. The bible is full of **** as are all religious texts, but the lessons learned there are useful. In this case, lets take the lesson of Joseph and his dreams of 7 fat cows and 7 thin cows eh? Currently, you're in a time of plenty, and saving what you can, well done! most people don't do this so you're obviously a true Ozbargainer!

        Now, if on contract, work out how long in each year you can RELIABLY (be honest) expect to be employed fully and so THAT is your true earnings, for home ownership, do this over a longer term than, say, buying a capital purchase such as a car.

        Also, do NOT get a mortgage that will stretch you during times of plenty, as when the hard times hit, you will lose your house, and work non stop to pay the bankers salaries. Aim for what you can afford, this will enrich your quality of life, and IN THE FUTURE, you can trade up. Once you are 'in the game' it is easier than trying to score a goal from the starting line, NO ONE does this without rich parents, or a time machine.

        Finally, in your situation, get income protection insurance if you are risk averse, or accept the potential that you will lose it all and be back to square one if you don't mind risk. Decide what is right for you. If you insure, don't moan about the cost, it's a safety net. If you don't, don't moan if you lose it all, you had the choice and you took it.

        TL:DR - Save during times of plenty, be realistic when taking out long term expenses (house) about long term stable income, and don't try to buy a million dollar mansion as your first property.

        • Lights shed on realistic plans for home purchase… thanks! I'm clueless about mortgage and when I want to buy a house next year I should think about your comments. Also, the income protection insurance sounds like a good idea. I'll look out at some options to see what the prerequisites/premiums are…cheers

    • If you pay cash, itll round down!

  • +1

    I see eating out & entertainment as the same thing; going to the movies usually involves eating = $660

    Everything seems reasonable apart from that

    For reference, single person in a share flat spends $1400/month on the same, or $2700 including share of rent+bills per month

    • I agree that the eating out expenses is rather high, so something that I can try to reduce.

      May I know how much your household spends on Eating Out + Entertainment per month as a comparison?

      • +1

        For myself I average $200 a month, so I'd guess $400 if you included my partner. That includes all eating out/takeaways, taxis, movies and events.
        A big night out could cost $100+ in one go though but I balance it out by eating at home more or saving up from previous months

        I manage it by having a separate eftpos card that I transfer $200 onto each month. Once it's cleaned out, that's it until next month. Any left over from last month carries over. I actually find that most of the time I have around $50 left over but as above, some months have a few 'big' nights

        • Cool. I like this idea of separate account for eating out + entertainment.
          Although it may not work in my household because we pay almost everything (if possible) using credit cards rather than EFTPOS/Cash.

        • @OzFrugie: get a new credit card just for entertainment use

        • +1

          @OzFrugie:
          Problem with a credit card is that it's difficult to set a hard limit of such a small amount, and it's also money that I don't have.
          I don't mind paying bills and groceries on credit, but I feel personal 'discretionary' spending should be paid from what I have/afford at the time, not what I can afford next month, especially since it's not a necessity.
          Not really missing out on many points from $200 either.

          Being an ING Visa debit card I can still use it where credit cards are accepted too ie uber, and can also get cash from ATMs without fees when required. I only use my ING account (main bank is CBA) for this, and my salary automatically transfers $200 each month to it so it's completely non-touch

        • +1

          @Limitless:

          I try not to apply any more credit cards because I am concerned it will impact my credit rating..
          Between myself and my partner, we have 4-5 already (unless my partner hides some from me!)

  • +1

    I'm on the same boat. I thought we were pretty lean until I put all expenses on a sheet.

    Our family (2 adults and 1 2yo)monthly expenses is 5k a month excluding mortgage. And this is all essential stuff.

    • Yep, same. I thought I was pretty frugal (without being too cheap).. Well, maybe I am, on the other my partner not as frugal.. (hi honey if you're reading this! ;-P )
      Seriously though this exercise is an eye-opener to me.

      Just curious though, is 5k per month including insurances (health+car) and childcare, if you have any of those?
      Or 5K/month is simply everything only less mortgage?

      • 5 k is everything less mortgage.

        So included: car insurance, ctp and rego and electricity and gas bill and water bill and council fee and car maintainance and petrol and public transport and childcare and mobile phone bill and spending money and internet.

        We don't even have Foxtel and no gym cost ! And bring lunch 4 days a week !

        • Is childcare like 1-2k of that though?

        • @chriise: around 1.1k :-(

        • @tomleonhart:

          Is that gross amount or total amount after getting the government rebates?

        • @OzFrugie: that's after the rebate. We use that $7500 pretty quick though. After the rebate it'll be like $500 a week.

        • @tomleonhart:

          If my maths is correct, that's like 100 per day for childcare before rebate.
          Relatively low for Sydney.

        • @OzFrugie: well i do live 40 kms away from the city.

    • We are typical ozbargainers and live pretty leanly, I was also horrified to find out our monthly expenses (everything including mortgage) is $4700 pm.

      This is with no gym membership, no movies, or Foxtel etc. We do have Netflix and Spotify, and I buy lunch once a week and get a takeaway dinner once a week.

      I use pocketsmith and really like the tool, enough to get the premium version. highly recommend it!

      • Sound like us lol. :O <== my face when I did a sum of my expenses

        • +1

          Yep! oops I wrote 'everything incl mortgage' when it should be excluding. And Sydney mortgages aren't cheap either, I don't even want to think about the expenses including the mortgage.

          This is a great article to read, my aim for the next month is to knuckle down on absolutely every single expense and get that savings rate up.

          http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim…

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