I often see people, especially those on motorcycles, cut through the servo to avoid the red light or queue at a roundabout.
What do you guys think?
Are there rules against this?
Do YOU do this?
Poll Question: 'Do you agree with people cutting the servo to avoid the red light?'
Title is the question.
The title is a statement followed by a question. And it isn't clear how the question relates to the preceding statement.
Personally, I will take a shortcut through a business with driveways whenever practical.
On one occasion, I was driving home from work late at night and drove through a small business with a car park and driveways on each road at a red traffic lit corner. I was immediately pulled over by an undercover police car. The interaction was pretty standard. The police officer saw something unusual and wanted to investigate.
I had my licence ready to hand over with my window down and he asked me what I was doing in an aggravated tone. I replied that I was driving home after work. He clarified and accused me of running a red light. I informed him that I didn't enter the intersection. He asked me if I knew what the speed limit was. I confirmed the correct speed limit. He then took my licence to check it in his car before returning it and releasing me to go.
CRIKEY!!!! It's now against the law to NOT know what the speed limit is!!??
Officer, I have no idea what the speed limit is. I do know what speed I was doing though.
Time saved: 0
Actually, on that night it was negative.
But I've only been pulled over for it once, and done it more than 50 times. So I'm way ahead.
It's now against the law to NOT know what the speed limit is!!??
It's just a standard police tactic to elicit an admission of guilt. The most common one is, "Is there any reason you were speeding?"
It preys on people's hope that they might be let off if they come up with a good enough excuse, similar to other confidence tricks. But if you answer in the affirmative or negative without objecting to the premise of the question, you're logically admitting to speeding.
@Super Kami Dende: the more pertinent observation here is pathetic and/or bored cop stopping people and being aggressive for no reason.
@merivetio: I agree with this. Undercover? It's a grey area and the test for that would be whether s/he was driving in an unsafe manner.
That's we have 2 eyes.
One to be on the speedo at all times, and the other to look at speed signs.
Speeding is a sin and destroys families.
@alxr0101: In answer to this its called inattentive driving. If the police officer can determine that your not paying attention to roadsigns then its a citation.Thats how it is in SA anyway.
Answer in my opinion is no for all three.
What do you guys think, is it ok? No
Are there rules against it? No
Do you do it? No
Sorry should have worded it 'do you agree with people cutting the servo to avoid the red light?'
The other questions were to facilitate some discussion.
Then don't participate??
man i do 270 degree turns at roundabouts from the right lane to go left if it is banked up.
You mean 450 degrees. 360 + 90 degrees to turn left from right lane.
I do the same.
I do 1080° turns just for fun.
Only 1080, 4k is where it is at now!
There are very few cars available that support 4k degree turns anyway. The few On-The-Road cars that can do HD turns don't even do 1080 yet…
Yeh my maths sucks
An extra inch or two can make all the difference when you're sucking.
Yeh my maths sucks
Have more confidence in yourself dude. You were correct.
At a perpendicular cross road roundabout:
MITM, is referring to the angular locus covered relative to the centre of the roundabout. IMO, that's less intuitive than your framework for describing a turn and, either way, they were wrong to object.
@Scrooge McDuck: Unclesnske did a complete circle and then some, not a series of right angle turns driving around the block.
Whos maths sucks ?
Unclesnske did a complete circle and then some,
That depends on what framework you use to consider it. He said, "man i do 270 degree turns at roundabouts" the angle he gave refers to the magnitude of the turn.
Using your framework a U-turn would be 360° on a roundabout, but if something turns 360° it ends up pointing in the original direction. So IMO, your framework is less intuitive. Either way, someone else's solution isn't wrong just because you prefer a different framework for analysing the problem to them. So you were wrong to object.
Whos maths sucks ?
Yours! The ability to analyse a problem is key to mathematical aptitude.
@Scrooge McDuck: you might be right, I was sort of thinking it was 270 in terms of if tony hawk did a 270 degree turn in the air he would do what I describe ( I think )
@MITM: the angle of the car I describe is the rotation of the car
180 degrees equals doing a u turn, going straight is 0 degrees, …
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=777…
@Scrooge McDuck: your words, "but if something turns 360° it ends up pointing in the original direction." and I add "and then some" i.e. another 90 degrees totalling 450 degrees. Sorry, but I can't get my head around your framework.
However, if I was driving around a building or city block it would be 3x 90 degree turns = 270 degrees. But in this case it was a roundabout so it was 1x 450 degree turn. 5 quarters of a circle.
And I never said anybody was wrong - but you did !
And I never said anybody was wrong - but you did !
That's what you implied when you wrote:
You mean…
Followed by a different figure.
@MITM: "1x 450 degree turn. 5 quarters of a circle."
That is a right turn.
The OP does a 270° left turn. They never complete a full 360° (ie at no stage are they pointing the same direction as their starting position), let alone a 450°.
If you turned 360° (you would be pointing in the same direction you started).
So another 90° turn (ie 360° + 90°= 450°), would mean you're turning right.
unklesnake never completes one circle of the roundabout, only 3 quarters, ie 270°, ie left turn.
Think about it.
Left turn = 90°
Straight = 0°
Right turn = 90°
U-Turn = 180°
U-turn + Left turn = 270° (What unklesnake does [270° = 180° + 90°])
U-turn + U-turn (ie Straight) = "360°" (Actually 0°)
U-turn + Right turn = "450°" (Actually 90°)
Try it out with a toy car and a compass.
@fieldo85: except when people say 270 degrees at a roundabout they mean 270degrees taken from the center of the roundabout not 270 around your car
@Scrooge McDuck: Oh no, I upvoted the 450 degree answer before I saw this one. Where do I hand in my Ozbargain badge?
I think they're both right, though the 270° concept will make more sense, logically.
270° refers to the amount the car turns, which is what most people would be familiar with.
450° refers to the ANGLE formed by the motion of the car.
It all depends on how you measure going straight ahead.
Most people would say going straight means not turning, therefore 0° turn.
However, a case could be made that the movement of going forward forms a straight line, or mathematically, a straight angle, by measuring the angle formed by the movement, which is 180°.
Here's a visualisation I made:
https://i.imgur.com/Tq9YZTv.gif
I just turn 360 degrees and go back towards the way I came to go from.
You heard me.
Turning your car 360 means u r going back in the same direction , the same as doing a 0 degree turn.
No he doesn't:
Left turn = 90°
Straight = 0°
Right turn = 90°
U-Turn = 180°
U-turn + Left turn = 270° (What unklesnake does)
U-turn + U-turn (ie Straight) = 360°
U-turn + Right turn = 450°
Try it out with a toy car and a compass.
You seem to be describing a series of intersections whereas mine and Unclesnakes comments are about a roundabout. To take the 2nd exit your car would track in a semi circle or 180 degrees, and then a further 180 degrees to take the 4th exit. And a further 90 degrees to take the originally desired 1st left exit.
Your 0 degrees path you describe would take you crashing through the garden bed or centre of the roundabout.
If I took a magnetic compass with me for example when approaching a roundabout while travelling north, I would then veer west, followed by north again followed by east followed by south followed by exiting west. The compass would have moved around 450 degrees.
You can't U turn at a roundabout.
Haven't done this before but I like this tip, cheers.
You da real MVP!
Yep I do this too. And the best thing is, is that it also helps improve the flow for the left turners stuck in the queue - because you break the flow from the other roads that are causing the backlog. It really is win/win.
Too many self important assholes on Australian roads. The idea of taking your rightful place in a long que is below some people. But then some numpty will always let them in. I say block them out. Forever if need be.
My rightful place in a long queue. O.o
Too many self righteous commenters on Australian forums.
Too many sheeple lacking initiative on Australian roads. They compound traffic congestion by all driving in the middle lane.
+1 people that think outside the box get ahead in this life.
Exactly mate. Although, the fact most people take their "rightful place in a long que" is the reason others can get ahead hey :)
@R-Man: If everyone else is queuing up, and one person takes a huge shortcut around the queue, in the wrong lane, then forces their way into traffic, they are being an (profanity). They should wait like everyone else; what makes them special?
@Burnertoasty: I don't mind giving way if I can see they are genuinely lost. I have been caught short in an unfamiliar area and inadvertently in the wrong lane. And you can generally tell the one's who are genuine lost vs the smartarses.
But those who think it's OK to bypass the queue and cut in at the last minute are class A c***ts
@Burnertoasty: Sure, they are a nuisance and I have never forced my way into traffic, but we were discussing the servo on the corner - no forcing into traffic here?
When I Enter and Exit a servo on the corner to end up travelling left I have to give way when Exiting the servo. This might take just as long as waiting at the traffic light! But most of the time it's quicker.
@t25: I'll happily queue as long as I'm not late for something. I don't get upset when people cut the queue because I assume they must be late for something.
That's because you're taught to in driving school.
Blocking them out makes the traffic worse. Sure it's their fault, but they aren't the ones being inconvenienced, it's all the people behind them.
In general, Australians are very good at waiting in line for things, and will naturally queue where appropriate. Most cultures, even ones we think are similar to ours, don't do this [as well as us].
Normal road rules applies to road related areas.
Which means its 'legal' to do then.
It also means you can be "detained" on private property, and possibly charged with trespassing…
This is correct. I once drove into a servo and drove out without buying anything. When exiting, the attendant chased me down and served me papers for trespassing. I was livid.
I also got done for passing my 4c voucher to another customer.
Had to sell my house, even though I only bought it 3 months ago. Made a $450k profit, invested it in Bitcoin.
- Voted by 1 other user
I love how some people are so dense that they interpret sarcasm literally.
Calling a servo 'private property' and 'detaining' someone is a little rich. Yes its privately owned land, but is it space that the public is invited into.
Anyhow, you really think they care or could you?
I never said they would, but they could. Servo owners hate this behavior as these rat-runners can cause problems for their customers. They are within their rights to block you from exiting their property - although if they are only franchisees, they are not the owners at all…
Shops have an open invitation, you can't be detained for trespassing unless they have specifically told you not to come onto the premises - even then I'm not sure if it's trespassing or if they can just ask you to leave.
Actually, with lack of obvious deterrents (physical or communicated), you're allowed to walk onto anyone's property for reasonable purposes - they give tacit consent by not stopping you.
Are there rules against this?
No
Do YOU do this?
Sometimes yes, there is one set of lights near me with a really long red. You can cut through the servo and out again. Of course only if its not busy in there, if its busy you can get stuck.
I can't really understand the amount of anger in this thread.
Queues aren't holy or magical, folks; their only purpose is to ensure fairness. Pushing in is only pushing in if it makes things unfair or impolite in some way: you delay someone who was there before you, or otherwise inconvenience the people in the queue.
When done sensibly and considerately, cutting through an empty servo/carpark inconveniences nobody.
It's a bit like seeing all the idiots lining up to use the left petrol pumps when half a dozen right ones are free, stubbornly refusing to just reverse and use a free one, and absolutely livid if someone else is smart enough to do so.
I think it's a weird kind of monkey-instinct jealousy, the stupid angry that the smart are "cheating" (despite their being no rules broken), not anything rational.
Agreed, if done sensibly and considerately, cutting through an empty servo/carpark inconveniences nobody and thats what I do from time to time.
But really, its a rare thing, as you have to be able to get into the driveway in the first place, and thats really only a few select key spots when queued up at the lights.
Its not cheating, it might be a little 'cheeky', but these are businesses with semi public space. I'm not driving through someone's front yard, nor would I ever do that!
Wasn't too long ago, I saw two cars doing that trying to avoid the wait at the lights via a petrol station. Problem was, second car got reversed into by the first car in front.
First car was trying to avoid something, second car stopped and got hit. In the end, both spent more time/trouble than what the wait at the light was. I have to admit I did chuckle at the two cars as the event unfolded.
Good action movie for people who waits patiently at the lights.
ITT: entitled people… one infringement away from posting a complaint about their fines on ozbargain.
You could be charged with trespassing i guess? You are not a customer unless you are buying some thing and its private property.
How would you feel if some one drove in your yard because it saved time?
No just no.
What part? lol
How would you feel if some one drove in your yard because it saved time?
Bewildered because it couldn't possibly save time.
Driveways and parking areas are hardly comparable to a lawn.
Corner block and somebody takes a shortcut across your lawn?
I have had that happen on foot when our fence broke. Pain in the arse people are so damn lazy!
I have also seen cars cut across unit blocks to save time?
I thought there was rules against doing this through commercial property (servo or not). Would be good if a Policeman that frequents OZB can advise.
Would be good if a Policeman that frequents OZB can advise.
A police officer or not. They read the same road rules as the rest of the community.
Impossible to enforce, you could just say you were going to buy something but then changed your mind.
Cops can't even do anything if you don't pay for your fuel if your card is declined or you've left your wallet at home.
Pretty sure if you drive off without pay its still stealing. I mean you can't just walk out of a supermarket with your groceries if you leave your wallet at home.
Read what I posted, I never said drive off without paying.
And for police to take action they have to be able to prove intent to steal, otherwise it is a civil matter.
Sorry, what were you suggesting? That you sit at the petrol station with a car full of fuel you didn't pay for?
@Scab: Agree- I was told as a youth its illegal but if you stop the car at the petrol bowser, then make a decision that you have enough petrol and continue then its ok. How valid this is I am unsure. Stopping the car completely is the key from what was told.
I love this kind of mentality. This would honestly not work in the slightest.
I mean, I could flip the script on, say, getting a littering fine. "No, officer, I wasn't littering - I was putting the piece of rubbish on ground temporarily while I itched my shoulder!!". Do you think this would fly? I mean, you could be telling the truth - the act itself is still illegal.
If a police officer sees you doing what OP describes (and the officer can be bothered pulling you over) you will get a fine and you will not get out of it by trying to pretend you 'changed your mind'. The law isn't open to interpretation or navigation - only a police officer has the power to use at their discretion.
FYI, down the road from my work there is a service station exactly as OP describes - people use the service station as a shortcut often; I've seen police pull over at least a handful of drivers. Whether they're doing it for cutting the lights,or for other offences? Who knows. Definitely looks like it's for cutting the lights to me.
you will get a fine
Bullshit, it is not against the law and service stations are private property where road rules don't apply.
Here is an entry from WA: https://goo.gl/5PbDFb
"While the time-saving move may not be considered illegal under WA's road laws"
"No, officer, I wasn't littering - I was putting the piece of rubbish on ground temporarily while I itched my shoulder!!".
Don't be silly, that's not even a similar analogy.
Don't be silly, that's not even a similar analogy.
I didn't say it was an analogy - I said let's flip the script. All I was trying to point out is, a Police officer does not need to take your word for what happened. If they see you cutting through, they see you cutting through.
I'm trying to find where I read about it being a fine (adding to my theory on why I've seen a few drivers being fined just after they'd cut through the service station).
For what it's worth, I am in QLD and not WA. A shame the article you've linked doesn't elaborate on whether it's different in other states.
Laws don't normally vary all that much between states for this sort of stuff, I couldn't find another mention of it, including any state website, because it's not illegal.
If they see you cutting through, they see you cutting through.
Service stations are private property and road rules don't apply, the police have no jurisdiction for road violations.
Road rules only apply to public roads.
I am going to say, it really depends.
There are quite a few junctions where I live where there are green left-turn lights, and the traffic is at a standstill as every car in front of you is going straight. In cases like this, I just drive into the petrol kiosk as I am not exactly "cutting the queue", I just don't want to be stuck in traffic for no reason.
One poll, but three questions. How do you know which question people are providing a response for?