[AMA] I'm a Paramedic - Ask Me Anything! [Trigger Warning - Heavy Content]

sween64 on 23/10/2017 - 16:12
Last edited 23/10/2017 - 16:40

I'm a paramedic working in Australia, I have been for over 3 years. It's a great job and I'm glad I kinda fell in to it. I work in a large metropolitan city, mainly in the suburbs but we can end up almost anywhere!

It requires a 3 year bachelor degree and can be studied at universities all over Australia, some of them are double degrees with nursing.

I work a variety of shift lengths including during the day and over night.

Go ahead, ask me anything!

The views expressed here are those of myself and not of my employer.

Trigger warning: There's some emotionally heavy content and may be some gruesome stuff as well.

Introduce Yourself

closed Comments

        • [Deactivated] on 27/10/2017 - 22:43

          @lolbbq:

          I don't understand this.

          No, you don't.

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 11:15
      +3

      No worries!

  • WreckTangle on 23/10/2017 - 20:42
    +1

    What do you get up to between call out jobs?

    • lethalmoney on 23/10/2017 - 21:51

      They are usually ramped at hospital or on to the next job.
      Unless it's their meal break or they are waiting at ED… there's a job to attend.

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 11:28
      +3

      Even after patient care is completed there's documentation to complete, an ambulance that needs to be cleaned and restocked. We also need to refuel.

      If we make it back to branch there's a branch to keep orderly, emails to be checked, online learning modules to complete, training to do to keep rarely used skills up to date.

      If it's a really quiet day then I might pop in to the post office or do a small amount of grocery shopping, we're always available to respond to an emergency though. There's also usually time in the morning to get a coffee at the local cafe.

  • [Deactivated] on 23/10/2017 - 21:45

    Cheers for the AMA I'm sure we will get a lot of interesting questions. Something I've always been curious to know:
    If you deem it unnecessary, can you decline to bring a patient to hospital despite them asking you to?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 11:32
      +1

      No. If it is unnecessary then I will explain to the patient why I think it's unnecessary and provide them various options of how to solve the problem; attend GP, family to drive pt to hospital, go to the pharmacy, self administer medications and first aid at home etc. If their medical complaint is very minor they're likely to sit in the ED waiting room for hours, that can put a lot of people off. There's also a common misconception that if you arrive to ED via ambulance you will see a doctor quicker, that's simply not true. All patients go through the same triage process and regularly patients I take to ED will sit in the waiting room. At the end of all that, if the patient insists on being transported to hospital and they're not drunk or violent, I'll take them.

  • TheBilly on 23/10/2017 - 21:46

    Is there such a thing as powder to put on gunshot wounds that closes it instantly? Do you have an equivalent for non gun shot wounds? Cuts etc.

    • lethalmoney on 23/10/2017 - 21:53
      +2

      The powder you refer to doesn't close the wound, it coagulates the blood and stems the bleeding.
      Wounds are generally stemmed with some form of pressure. Direct pressure, tourniquet etc.

      • TheBilly on 23/10/2017 - 21:58

        Cheers. Will look into it. There would have to be the equivlent thing for cuts, that is better then a bandaid/bandage.

        • lethalmoney on 23/10/2017 - 22:01
          +1

          Essentially, a cut is covered in gauze, the gauze traps the blood, which congeals over time. The gauze is held to the wound by a bandage.

          That's the basic first aid of it.

          I've seen some pretty horrid and deep cuts and have stemmed the flow with a towel.
          Paramedics arrive and they generally won't remove the towel as it will open up the wound again.

        • TheBilly on 23/10/2017 - 22:05
          +2

          @lethalmoney:

          I mountainbike and have had some bad falls with no-one around in remote areas. Have learnt basic first aid and done the course, like your saying and also carry a small kit, but would be great to have like an emergency powder to chuck on a gushing wound/cut, then bandage over type thing. Im just fearful of a branch or rock through the leg or kneck type deal lol

        • lethalmoney on 23/10/2017 - 22:09
          +1

          @TheBilly:

          Fellow mountain biker !
          Yea, out in a gully, you would leave the object in (if that's the case), wrap clothing around the site and safely as possible navigate your way to assistance.

          I had to get 10 stitches in my shin and was in the bottom of a gully by myself !

        • TheBilly on 23/10/2017 - 22:13

          @lethalmoney:

          Daam, hope your back on the bike and didnt take too long to recover !! Ive been lucky in comparison no stitches just big bruises on my body and ego. But its exactly that situation which scares me - in a gully stabbed by a rock or branch. Cheers for the advice, I'll keep that in mind for next time. Good luck on the trails !!

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 11:36
      +2

      We have QuickClot for haemorrhages that can't be controlled via other means. First you try direct pressure (with gauze or a absorbent pad), then you try one or two tourniquets to reduce the blood flow to the area (only works on limbs) and then you try QuickClot.

    • HumbleCat on 25/10/2017 - 05:51
      +1

      @TheBilly I think the powder you are referring to is QuickClot which the OP Sween64 mentioned. The household equivalent is a styptic pencil or similar. You can get it at the local pharmacy to quickly close wounds.

      The main ingredient is Anhydrous aluminium sulphate which in 'war movies' they sprinkle on wounds calling it Sulphur.

      • banana365 on 25/10/2017 - 13:57

        The household equivalent is a styptic pencil

        I remember that from my pre-beard days. If the sting from a silly little razor nick was anything to go by, I'd probably prefer to bleed out than sprinkle aluminium sulphate on an open wound. I reckon Norman Gunston had the right idea for shaving cuts.

        • Cannulator on 25/10/2017 - 18:08

          Quickclot contains Kaolin. Inert clay tgat activates clotting.
          Styptic is aluminium sulphate.

          The current product is not te same as zeolite which was an exothermic product.

  • lethalmoney on 23/10/2017 - 21:54
    +3

    How do you feel working alongside other emergency services, police & fire.
    Do you have a favorite?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 11:39
      +6

      We have a lot more contact with police than we do with fire services. We see police at road accidents, assaults, drunks, agitated patients, mental health situations, deceased patients etc. They're often great to chat to.

      Fire services in metropolitan areas are dispatched as first responders to cardiac arrests, not the situation where we have time for a friendly chat. Fire services also attend some road accidents for cleaning up or for removing trapped patients (again, no time for a chat).

      So only due to circumstances do I find I have a closer relationship with the police than with fire services.

      • lethalmoney on 24/10/2017 - 13:10
        +7

        ;) see you out there, brother.

  • biozet on 23/10/2017 - 22:10
    +2

    is the Scorsese movie with Nicholas cage?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 11:40

      I haven't seen it but I'll watch it. Thanks.

  • ravonda on 23/10/2017 - 22:38

    What do you think is the difference between a paramedic's level of medical knowledge compared to say, a doctor's? Can you give a case example of what they can do that paramedics can't?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 11:47
      +5

      Haha a lot! We have knowledge of how to treat a specific list of conditions in an emergency. Depending on the doctor you are comparing to they might have specialist knowledge of a specific disease, how to diagnose and treat.

      The main difference is that doctor's often work in controlled environments; a hospital with good lighting, quiet conditions, lots of staff on call. Doctor's also usually have a wealth of information either gathered or can be tested. Paramedics often work in uncontrolled situations; car wreckages, drunk bystanders, in the rain, in the dark, in cramped conditions etc. Paramedics are working with minimal information initially.

      All doctors are great and I couldn't be one.

  • [Deactivated] on 23/10/2017 - 23:20

    1. watching a doco on paramedics in UK, they have a specialized team that have the capabilities to do open surgery in the open ( uncontrolled environment to a degree) do we have anything liek that in aus? for example a lady got run over by a truck and crushed her legs and chest, they opened her up to check that any ribs didnt puncture main organs and opened one of her legs to clamp the main artery to stop blood loss as they where pumping blood in she was loosing it in her pelvis.

    2. how far do you go in order to save a life before making a the call to stop as nothing is going to bring them back, or do you keep on going until you reach a hospital?

    3. do you still have issues at hospital with transferring patients from your bed to a hospital bed if so how long do you usually wait plus are they still your responsibility?

    4. has the super depots caused issues with your work and response times or has it made things a lot easier and quicker response times?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 12:09
      +2

      1. Not really. There are flight paramedics who have the highest skill-set and can perform finger thoracostomy

      2. If the patient has had a prolonged time of cardiac arrest without any interventions (like bystander CPR) and the patient presents asystolic then resuscitation is often futile and will be stopped in most circumstances. A resuscitation effort of 30-45 minutes without a return of pulse is often the longest that is required, any further treatment is often futile. With the inclusion of mechanical CPR like the Lucas, CPR can be performed en route to hospital safely.

      3. Occasionally, during the last winter flu season ramping times did increase but it is still no where near as bad as it was years ago. The usual wait time is about 30 minutes (from my anecdotal, unscientific, guessing experience). If the patient is waiting on an ambulance stretcher in the ED then the patient care is mainly the paramedic's responsibility but the hospital has a shared responsibility as well.

      4. Super Resource Centres have only recently opened in my state, response times have improved recently and appears to be due to increased resourcing as well as better phone triage and dispatching.

      • [Deactivated] on 24/10/2017 - 13:48
        +1

        I think 1) may be referring to the UK air ambulance that carries a trauma doctor who can perform various life saving procedures.
        I understand that one State has a medical Director that likes to open up people's chests to perform cardiac massage.
        I understand that none of his patients survived though.

  • eagleoftheeast on 23/10/2017 - 23:46
    -4

    Salary?

  • TightAl on 24/10/2017 - 07:20

    What's the best bargain you've snagged from OzBargain?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 12:11
      +16

      144 cans of coke delivered for $60 thanks to Woolworths coupon stacking. They were sold at our ambulance branch social club canteen.

  • 17833 on 24/10/2017 - 08:10
    +1

    No one has asked about obstetric cases ~~ thoughts/feelings about these type of cases, and personal experiences with childbirth. Being a paramedic myself a couple of these have been the most emotionally challenging jobs I have been to, to the point where I have thought about them every day for weeks afterwards and still now. I have also been affected on the other side, my cousin was born alive at home with a paramedic I know well attending, and then went into cardiac arrest, despite amazing efforts by paramedic and hospital staff for over two hours she passed away. Going a bit off topic, but I guess many of us work in the community where close family members are present and there is always that small chance you attend a family member or friend ….. it does happen and there are no words at all for that.

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 12:14
      +2

      Obstetric cases are rare and I've only attended one birth and everything went quite smoothly. I was a junior paramedic and shocked when I saw the child's head between its mother's legs aka crowning.

      I work in a large city and haven't had to attend anyone that I know well.

      You do a great job, I hope you're okay!

  • rake on 24/10/2017 - 08:10
    +5

    Must be a very stressful job at times. R U OK?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 12:15
      +5

      It can be at times, I'm doing great though. How are you?

      • rake on 24/10/2017 - 13:50
        +4

        I am well. Can't complain. Thanks for your work!

  • Pizdets on 24/10/2017 - 11:35

    How many motorcycle accidents do you attend to in a week?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 12:16
      +5

      Haha are you a motorcyclist? Maybe 2 a month.

      • Pizdets on 24/10/2017 - 12:35
        +6

        yep. but i try to keep the shiney side up

        • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 12:39
          +9

          Good luck, be safe, always wear leathers.

        • paaj on 25/10/2017 - 16:15
          +1

          @sween64: Couple of months ago, I came off a bike and the paramedics attended. I have to say, they were so nice and professional and I kept apologising to them for wasting their time because they could have been saving someone more critical. The guy in the back with me was very amusing and more worried about how angry my SO was going to be with me, haha. It made the ride back less agonising.

          Thank you for your service. You guys are the best!

        • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 16:27
          +1

          @paaj: I'm glad you had a good experience and that you were okay.

        • Quantumcat on 26/10/2017 - 21:37

          @paaj: Same happened to me, came off my bike at 90 km/hr, ambos came, but I felt so fine I apologised for the person that called them and insisted on getting picked up by a colleague to go to work and not going to hospital. Found out 2 days later my wrist was broken, I think the adrenaline masked the pain as I felt nothing aside from the road rash.

        • paaj on 31/10/2017 - 16:54

          @Quantumcat: yep, hurts like B once the adrenaline wears off.

        • paaj on 31/10/2017 - 16:55

          @Quantumcat: also, shit dude, 90 kph? hope you recovered well!

        • Quantumcat on 01/11/2017 - 07:28

          @paaj: Yes but my clothes/shoes didn't, my nice cherry red Docs got a huge hole worn in the side lol

          And yeah my wrist stated hurting only like 2 hours later. It is weird how that happens

  • outlander on 24/10/2017 - 11:49

    Has working as a paramedic changed how you see people?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 12:17
      +7

      It's changed how I perceive society. I was in my early 20s when I started the job and had grown up in upper-middle class and attended a private school. Since working I've worked all over my large city and have met all walks of life. It's eye opening.

      • outlander on 24/10/2017 - 13:43

        I should clarify. The more I learn about the human body and mind, the more and more it looks like a machine, that can be controlled if you know which levers to pull.

        You, regularly pulling people back from the brink of death, thats gotta do some things for your ego right?

        • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 14:00
          +7

          It's very rewarding to save a person's life or at least make a significant impact on their lives. I'm not an arrogant person though.

        • [Deactivated] on 25/10/2017 - 14:51

          Continue your studies. You will see that in some circumstances the human body is more complex than any machine and can shut down without any warning or explanation.

  • airzone on 24/10/2017 - 12:16

    My mum works in the ED. One night, a patient came in who had a known lung cancer caused by smoking. The cancer burst (or whatever) and he shortly drowned in his own blood, with fear and panic on his face until he lost consciousness and died. She never smoked, but one of her late 40's colleagues who also attended this patient had been a chronic smoker for her whole adult life. She quit that night and has never smoked again.

    Have you experienced something that has impacted your view on life so much that you have made an incredibly difficult lifestyle change that you would have never otherwise wanted or been able to do?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 12:19
      +3

      I'm sorry to say but not yet.

      Also I'm fortunate that I never took up smoking.

  • lainey13 on 24/10/2017 - 12:31
    +2

    Do you ever feel like you want to yell at people who call the ambulance for really crap reasons that clog up the system unnecessarily?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 12:34
      +5

      Yes! But I don't. I do try to explain to them that maybe calling for an ambulance wasn't the best idea and that they could've sought help from different avenues. See here for more detail

  • antonthenet on 24/10/2017 - 12:55

    IF you won the lottery would you continue to be a Paramedic?

    If no - what would you do?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 13:34
      +13

      Yes, but I wouldn't be working night shift.

      • Save Medicare on 24/10/2017 - 13:55
        +3

        oath

      • humdingaling on 25/10/2017 - 11:27

        could you do this by choice?

        ie are you allowed to only pick day shifts

  • CandyMan on 24/10/2017 - 13:14
    +1

    1. Which cases do you dislike responding to the most

    2. Do you come accross frequent flyers

    3. Whats the best and worst aspects of your job

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 13:37
      +2

      1. Nothing in particular, I don't like rude patients that are demanding and entitled. I like variety.

      2. Yes but not many, again working in a large city the frequent flyers often get different crews. I often see the same patients in hospital regularly.

      3. The best part is working with a great partner that you can have fun with and work seamlessly and efficiently together no matter the situation. The worst and most frustrating part is being ramped at hospital, spending hours waiting with nothing to do is the worst.

      • CVonC on 26/10/2017 - 02:20
        +1

        The worst and most frustrating part is being ramped at hospital, spending hours waiting with nothing to do is the worst.

        Is that when you post on OzBargain?

        • 17833 on 26/10/2017 - 02:54
          +1

          It's actually interesting you say that, being on your phone is expressly not allowed while waiting with patients (looks unprofessional). Not all rules are followed at all times though …..

  • [Deactivated] on 24/10/2017 - 13:41

    How do you feel about St John's Ambulance proving ambulance services in some states?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 13:58
      +1

      As long as they do a good job I don't have a problem with it. Why, should I?

      • [Deactivated] on 24/10/2017 - 14:11
        +3

        Some of your colleagues appear to feel quite strongly about volunteers providing a service that should be staffed by paid professionals.

        • 17833 on 24/10/2017 - 17:22
          +1

          There are actually volunteer positions within Ambulance Victoria https://www.ambulance.vic.gov.au/community-education/volunte… The Community Emergency Response Teams have a vehicle kitted out with essential first aid gear including some medications that they are authorised to use and are trained by paid Paramedics. They volunteer their time, even overnight to respond to jobs where it is not economically feasible to have an ambulance branch. They are always backed up with an ambulance. I hope others would see their immense value and effort.

        • 17833 on 24/10/2017 - 17:31

          Actually I think in WA and NT where St. John provide ambulance services there are professional paid roles much like in other states e.g. http://changelives.stjohnambulance.com.au/changelives/employ… Salary looks like it climbs above $100,000 once qualified.

        • jasonb on 24/10/2017 - 18:11
          +2

          I think you misunderstand.

          In WA and NT, the state has contracted St John Ambulance to provide ambulance services rather than providing them themselves. This doesn't mean that the service is provided by volunteers. The qualifications to be a paramedic in either of these services is the same as anywhere else (and in my opinion they have the best training/qualification model out there being a hybrid of the new degree programs and the old diploma+on the job program, so at the end of 4 years you have a degree AND 3 years experience).

          St John in those states also have volunteers first-aiding at events, just as they do in other states; but it's run completely separately of the ambulance service. Don't confuse St John volunteer event first aiders you see in your state with what's provided for the ambulance service they also run.

        • [Deactivated] on 25/10/2017 - 14:43

          @jasonb: No I don't misunderstand.
          This is taken from their current web page "There are 162 St John Ambulance locations operating in country Western Australia, serviced by more than 3100 dedicated volunteer ambulance officers and 90 paramedics. These volunteers travel more than two million kilometres across country WA annually, transporting more than 62,000 people."
          "St John Ambulance believes the Volunteer Model operating the country ambulance service, where the service is run by volunteers, is the most beneficial model for people living in country Western Australia as it ensures there is an ambulance service in most towns. If operational volunteers were not part of the service it is likely that only a handful of locations could afford to run a sustainable service based only on paid paramedic staff."

        • jasonb on 25/10/2017 - 16:03

          @4sure:

          Ah. You're talking country, not metropolitan areas that myself and OP are from. Completely different worlds (and nothing to do with being interstate or being government or contract run, because I believe that every state has volunteers or casuals with a similar skill set in at least some rural areas).

          Of course states with more remote areas are going to have more reliance on volunteers because it's simply not sustainable to have paramedics in areas with a low job load (and even if you had a bottomless bucket of money, and paramedics, if you were doing a job a month that some areas get you would de-skill so quickly that you'd be no help anyway)

          Questions about the volunteer model are valid, but really have nothing to do with whether the service is government run or contracted.

  • Save Medicare on 24/10/2017 - 14:02

    How much googling/guideline reading do you do on the job?

    In what proportion of cases will you have to refer to written or online materials?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 14:11
      +1

      We have guidelines created by our employee that I will check occasionally. I usually already know the guideline but I haven't used that specific one for awhile it's good to double check rather than make a mistake.

      If there's a medical condition or medication that I'm not familiar with I will look it up but it's not something I do regularly.

  • Chris Topher on 24/10/2017 - 14:11

    As an ex-PTO I ask, do you do any moonlighting? e.g. Wilsons? N.E.P.T.? Gunther, etc.

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 14:11
      +3

      No moon lighting, I do overtime for my primary employer instead.

      • Chris Topher on 24/10/2017 - 17:48

        The reason I ask is that I worked with many wonderful ambos and nurses. Some nurses loved the "mobile ward" shift so good they not only asked for for shifts with us, they even did the AOTC and even advanced from there. It was a fantastic experience for me and a period I really enjoyed, I travelled, worked with and also met some lovely people. It was a side of life only the lucky get to be involved in.

        There are some very very sad times, some frustrating, but the other 99% of times certainly make up for them.

        I wish you a long healthy career, never lose your empathy. Keep your sisterly higher than your disterly and never short-sheet a stretcher.

        • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 17:50
          +1

          Thanks!

  • utopia on 24/10/2017 - 14:34
    +2

    Due to your work expereince do you 'see' danger everywhere?
    My mom was in A&E and everything was potentially dangerous… that coin, that hard boiked egg, that rubber band.

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 14:55
      +3

      Not to that extreme, I do insists on crossing roads at the pedestrian crossing and am a lot more careful than I used to be and more careful than my partner.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/10/2017 - 14:40
    +1

    What do you see yourself doing in 10, 15, 20 years?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 14:56
      +1

      Hopefully still a paramedic if my body can handle it. I might be higher up in management or education.

  • anderstand on 24/10/2017 - 14:42

    Is it true that you're not allowed to run?
    We once waited an ambulance for someone bleeding on the street. It took forty minutes for them to show up (which could be because of traffic jam) and then the guys get off the ambulance and walked really slowly to the patient. It wasn't life threatening (I hoped) but they didn't even do a brisk walk. Just curious if this is a rule.

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 14:58
      +7

      I never run and never will, I try to give off a sense of authority and control, running wouldn't help that. It's dangerous to run as you might trip, it's also hard if you're carrying 10 kg or more of bags.

      • Sxio on 26/10/2017 - 14:42

        Is running actually against the rules though?

        Say you're responding to a stabbing in a park and you can't get the car closeby, would you jog to the victim or still walk?

        • sween64 on 26/10/2017 - 17:18
          +1

          Drive through the park! Look I don't know if it's against the rules but I've also never been told by superiors to run.

    • 17833 on 25/10/2017 - 20:24

      (paramedic also) … Some time ago a patient suddenly deteriorated and I had to go get more gear. I was running back toward the house and slipped, falling flat on my face. Went back into the house covered in dust and also abrasions. :(

  • utopia on 24/10/2017 - 14:58
    +1

    Did you ever had to help someone who didn't want to be helped and how was that handled?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 15:03
      +2

      Yes. People sectioned under the mental health act because they're an acute threat to themselves or someone else. It's very difficult. It can be especially hard to reason with someone who is suffering from an acute psychiatric episode. I do my very best to talk to them, explain everything to them and avoid having to chemically and mechanically restrain them (with police assistance of course).

      I also been to patients who have flatly refused treatment or transport. Even those people who are so unwell I'm worried they might die in the next 24 hours. It's often people with chronic medical conditions that are tired of being in hospital every second week, COPD can end up like that. As long as the patient understands the consequences of their decisions they have the right to refuse treatment.

      • [Deactivated] on 24/10/2017 - 15:11
        +1

        That must be a tough one: knowing that a decision that you make in high pressure circumstances at 23:00 hrs on a Friday night may be taken apart and dissected 5 year later in the cold light of a Coronal Inquest.

        • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 17:15
          +2

          Yes that's why thorough documentation is important.

  • airal3rt on 24/10/2017 - 15:13

    Are there any paramedics who only work day shift, or is everyone required to work rotating shifts?

    • sween64 on 24/10/2017 - 17:17
      +2

      Pretty much everyone works a mixture of shifts. Not everyone works four shifts on with four days off like I do and the majority do. Some people work set days of the week for a variety of reasons like caring for children or study. There is some provision for those people who are over 50 years old and have been working for decades to no longer work a night shift.

      • [Deactivated] on 25/10/2017 - 14:53

        …apart from the managers :-)

  • pao2x on 24/10/2017 - 19:04

    So how much time do you spend waiting to offload in an emergency dept? Percentage wise of yoir work week or something

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 09:40
      +3

      20% maybe

  • Amour on 24/10/2017 - 19:46

    Do you find having to run red lights stressful?

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 09:42
      +1

      No. We do it very safely. I will always come to a complete stop at the red light, I'll check right and wait until there is no traffic or the traffic is completely stopped. Meanwhile my colleague is checking the left side and once they call "all lanes clear left" then I'll glance to double check and then drive through.

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