[AMA] I'm a Paramedic - Ask Me Anything! [Trigger Warning - Heavy Content]

sween64 on 23/10/2017 - 16:12
Last edited 23/10/2017 - 16:40

I'm a paramedic working in Australia, I have been for over 3 years. It's a great job and I'm glad I kinda fell in to it. I work in a large metropolitan city, mainly in the suburbs but we can end up almost anywhere!

It requires a 3 year bachelor degree and can be studied at universities all over Australia, some of them are double degrees with nursing.

I work a variety of shift lengths including during the day and over night.

Go ahead, ask me anything!

The views expressed here are those of myself and not of my employer.

Trigger warning: There's some emotionally heavy content and may be some gruesome stuff as well.

Introduce Yourself

closed Comments

  • Ithinkimtheking on 24/10/2017 - 20:33

    I'm wondering how difficult were the Uni studies? Understanding the amount of time is 3 or so years studying people are able to take a lot more info in, but in my circumstances wondering if it's something I'd be able to do. (Working as a support worker primarily aged care trained)

    • serpserpserp on 24/10/2017 - 21:42

      I know someone that works in aged care, single mother, no support at home and is half way through completing the double degree. It is going to be hard, how much do you want it?

      People need to remember that this is a job that you could be doing for 10-20 years, are you ready for the onslaught of meeting people on the worst day of their lives and even though you do help them, you may not be able to help them all, or might do something wrong that causes them their life? Are you ready for the onslaught of drug & alcohol abusers that WILL verbally and probably nearly or WILL physically assault you at some point? Are you ready for the majority of your call outs to be lonely old people, hypochondriacs or worse, "chronic pain" neurology patients?

      • Zenyatta on 26/10/2017 - 16:12

        What's your implication about chronic pain sufferers?

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 09:43
      +1

      Did you study maths or science at high school? It's effectively a specialised health science degree, an extension of biology.

      • PAPower on 25/10/2017 - 10:31

        Thanks for doing this!

        I'm always interested in this field of study. Do you really think that 3-year study is a bit much for 'paramedic'. My understanding of this Latin (possibly) term is 'half of medical science'.

        Given that your duties have a lot to do with real-life situations, do you think that a sit-down uni course is less appropriate than a vocational, hands-on course?

        • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 10:38
          +1

          There's a lot of medical knowledge required these days as our scope of practice continues to expand with additional skills and medications. I think the university course combined with 100s hours of on-road and hospital placements with the 1 year graduate programs is fantastic. It doesn't need to changed.

        • jasonb on 25/10/2017 - 14:01
          +1

          I think 'paramedicine' is more akin to 'alongside medicine' as opposed to 'half of medicine', but I don't really know Latin!

          I'll give you my take as a paramedic in a different state, and it's different to the OP's. The course used to be a vocational diploma (still is in some places). As scope of practice continues to increase it moved to a degree program, which I think is important, but it's also a very practical job and the book knowledge only gets you so far. My state has a nearly 4 year training program which I think gives you the best of both worlds - a uni degree and three years on road experience before you qualify. Basically after half a uni course you start working on road as a junior (with a qualified paramedic) which gives you a whole lot of practical experience; and as you complete the rest of the course while you're working it makes the concepts you're doing in your uni work a lot more real because you can see them in patients (learning about the pathophysiology of diabetic ketoacidosis made a lot more sense when I could picture the patient who was experiencing it, for example).

          2.5-3 years on road experience before you qualify also gives you lots of experience with a whole lot of situations, and enough problem solving to figure out how to manage the ones you've never come across. I'm honestly scared how I would have gone after one on-road if I was let loose on the public at that point like happens with the graduate internships in other places.

  • jzdhgkd on 24/10/2017 - 20:39
    +5

    Hey, first of all thanks for doing what you do. A lot of the time it seems you work way harder than we do in the hospital and get way less recognition (much like nursing staff.)

    I'm sort of just posting this for my own benefit as a junior doc who still feels like i'm over my head when i'm down in ED.

    1) What sort of things do we do that annoy you guys and you'd like us to stop?

    2) What things can we do to help make the ambulance-hospital or hospital-ambulance transitions smoother for you?

    Thanks for your time

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 09:45
      +4

      No worries, and thanks for the work you do!

      1. Nothing really. If you're a doctor and only want a brief handover, make it obvious. Sometimes it's hard to tell who is a doctor and who is a nurse.

      2. Make sure the movement of the patient is separate to the clinical handover, they shouldn't be done at the same time.

      • jzdhgkd on 25/10/2017 - 13:00

        Im definitely guilty of forgetting to introduce myself so I'll keep that in mind.

        I haven't been part of handovers that occurred while moving but that does sound less than ideal. I wonder if it's due to pressure from nursing to get patients out asap?

        Anyway thanks for the feedback and I wish you all the best for the rest of your career!

        • jasonb on 25/10/2017 - 13:50
          +5

          Sorry for jumping in. I'm a paramedic in a different state so thought I'd offer my perspective.

          When handing over a proper-sick patient (the kind where we pre-notify so there's a cast of thousands waiting for us when we roll through the door), handovers can either be really smooth or a shambles of nobody knowing what's going on, and it usually depends on the doctor who's running the show.

          What's fantastic is when the doc takes charge and says "let's move the patient across, then we're all going to stop and listen to the paramedics' handover" (or alternatively, get the patient across, check the airway, then get a handover - usually if they've got an ETT in). That way everyone gets the whole story and isn't running off doing their thing and missing half of it - and I'm not getting interrupted and missing saying something important.

          The alternative is, everyone's running around doing their role and no one's actually getting the story, and the whole thing just makes everyone flustered.

          Also, when we call ahead to pre-notify you about someone we're bringing in, it's to give you a heads-up to have the appropriate area and team ready, not a formal handover of the patient. It's not time for 20 questions - there's limited people on scene (usually just myself in the back of the ambulance that's trundling towards you by the time I'm calling), and every minute I'm on the phone answering questions that could just as easily be answered when I arrive is a minute I can't be actively caring for a patient who probably needs it if he/she is one I'm calling ahead about.

        • jzdhgkd on 25/10/2017 - 16:41
          +1

          @jasonb:

          Haha yeah we call them "bat calls" and they're so crazy at times I'm glad I'm not in charge! Things always run smoother with pre assigned roles and I always find resume cases so much smoother with an organised team leader.

          Definitely good to know know about that second bit though - I'll remember to keep it brief!

          Thanks heaps

        • jasonb on 25/10/2017 - 17:16
          +1

          @jzdhgkd:

          More than one of our hospitals has the batman symbol on that phone :-)

    • 17833 on 25/10/2017 - 17:24
      +3

      (Paramedic / ED nurse also) Completely agree with comments made by jasonb. Also to add that one of the most frustrating things I find is when you are constantly interrupted or asked questions while attempting to hand over. As sween64 previously mentioned we have the ISOBAR method to handover so that it is methodical and includes relevant information. Often we are will answer the questions further down the track. Much better to be asked questions at the end. The other thing I would mention is that much like the hierarchy and varying seniority of hospital staff, Paramedics are the same. If in your first year in Victoria, you have had very little on road experience, and be 23yrs of age or younger. To hand over in a confident voice / manner in a crowded ED cubicle with staff who are experienced and experts in their field is absolutely daunting. Sometimes if the Grad Paramedic makes a mistake or misses something hospital staff can be a bit condescending or critical which really does affect the confidence of the Grad, so some understanding is important.

  • serpserpserp on 24/10/2017 - 21:38

    Why do Paramedics treat Doctors/Nurses who are looking after random people they don't know at the scene of the accident with contempt? Never seen a ambo take a handover from any doctor at the scene of the incident even though they would me the ranking medical officer there.

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 09:51
      +5

      It depends how that nurse/doctor is attempting to help. The paramedics should be leading the scene because they are trained to work in this environment. If a nurse/doctor wants to help then identify themselves and offer assistance and wait for directions, they shouldn't just dive in and rummage through equipment doing what they think is best.

      A good example: We attend a heroin OD on the street where a doctor has arrived before us. They offered assistance and I asked if they were able to take some vital signs using our equipment while I ventilated and my partner drew up nalaxone.

      A bad example: We attend a bicycle vs car accident. The cyclist is screaming in pain and possibly has broken ribs or clavicle. A nurse is literally standing over the patient (not a nice position for the patient) and wanting to cannulate before we've even had a chance to talk to the patient or take vital signs.

      • serpserpserp on 25/10/2017 - 21:22

        Only encountered 4 experiences on my life where ambo have rocked up with a doctor present, all times they barely even want an assessment from the medical professional on the scene. Remember hospital doctors (not GPs granted) are often well trained in assessing any medical situation and have been in scenarios outside the hospital walls where they have gone into a foreign environment and assessed medical problems.

        Out of those 4 instances, only 2 were what you would consider trauma though, and it is best to hand off to ambos for that.

        I can't believe a doctor would rummage through your stuff! How rude!

        • 17833 on 25/10/2017 - 21:37

          I think some GPs would be invaluable in assessing and assisting patients out in the community, especially a patient with a medical issue. Patients often use their GP as their first contact, and might present with time critical conditions, e.g. stroke symptoms, chest pain etc. Even more so in rural situations, my uncle was a Dr and pretty much the only one in town. I guess not out in the community as such, but paramedics get called to GP clinics for things such as chest pain as well, the GP has usually done a full assessment, given as aspirin, taken a 12 lead ECG, all of which paramedics would do, and also written a letter for the hospital etc.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/10/2017 - 14:55
      +2

      It is useful to note that just because you are a doctor does not mean that you trained or experienced in trauma.
      Doctors are backed up by wealth of technology that assist them in diagnosis and treatment, but very little of that is available at the side of the road at 03:00 hrs in the morning.
      It's the same with nurses. Unless they work in a casualty department they may never have seen a road accident or stabbing victim.

      • jasonb on 25/10/2017 - 16:07
        +4

        It's funny, the ones who end up being the most helpful extra hands on scene tend to be the ones who give us a quick story and then stand back when we arrive, and subtly offer their assistance if we need it.

  • centrelink on 24/10/2017 - 22:06

    I heard somewhere its hard for a non-white person to become paramedic due to alot of people requesting a "white" paramedic. Is that true?

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 09:52
      +1

      I've never heard that. There's a great range of diversity in my workforce. Occasionally a female patient (often Muslim) will request a female paramedic.

  • 1mmy1mmy on 24/10/2017 - 22:09

    Hey… Those "green whistles"… What are they?!

    • Toons on 25/10/2017 - 00:06

      I'll add mine under here as it's related in part.

      Are the GW effective enough for a broken bone talking right angles here bone poking out, until Proper paramedics arrive

      Real scenario just a little bit tired of the delay in proper answer to corrective actions or mitigations, should something as severe happen again (remote location)

      • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 09:54
        +2

        If it's the best analgesia you have on hand then give it. Used properly the person can be rendered unconscious so they are quite effective. They do require the patient to be compliant and they may need coaching on how to use it properly.

        • Toons on 25/10/2017 - 12:16

          would it be the best first line of patient treatment in the case above until the professionals get there?

          I know we have stronger things available but they are to be administered under only under instruction / teleconference once the Doc has run through the list of things he needs to know prior to administering

        • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 12:29
          +2

          @Toons: Yeah, use it, it's good pain relief.

        • Toons on 25/10/2017 - 13:22

          @sween64: Thanks much appreciated

        • jasonb on 25/10/2017 - 16:09
          +1

          @Toons:

          It's a fantastic first line. Really quick to set up and really quick acting. Even though I've got other things in my bag of tricks, I'll often give someone that first up in the kind of situation you're describing because it gets them some immediate pain relief while I'm taking the time to organise something better (getting an IV line in for example isn't something I want to rush)

          So yeah if you've got it and you're authorised to use it, do it (within the appropriate guidelines you've been given, etc etc)

        • Toons on 25/10/2017 - 17:37

          @jasonb: Thanks both of you,

          Yes my thought's exactly the IP wasn't in a position to attempt anything else at the point in time to aid pain relief and anything too strong would have hindered moving him to a place people could care for him. no matter what was done IP needed to be moved to a safe place before anything else could have been attempted, even that moving to a safe location was going to increase the pain for period of time before IP could be assessed properly, besides the obvious.

          You guys / gals are amazing, some of the things i've been caught up in for a few hours is just another Monday morning for you.

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 09:53
      +1

      Methoxyflurane (aka Penthrane).

    • Save Medicare on 26/10/2017 - 13:58

      Methoxyflurane. An anaesthetist I've worked with calls it 'cowboy medicine'

  • BobLim on 24/10/2017 - 22:18

    What do the little green exterior lights mean? (seem to usually be near the numberplates front and rear, constantly lit when I've seen them)

    How many vans have you and your colleagues had to write off to your knowledge?

    • Toons on 25/10/2017 - 00:09

      Could be to do with vision Green is last illuminated colour you see before passing out?

      • [Deactivated] on 25/10/2017 - 15:01

        That depends on why you passed out. The green phenomenon only occurs when you pass out through oxygen starvation to the brain.

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 09:57
      +1

      The green LEDs turn on when ever the flashing beacons are on. They're detected by speeding or red light cameras so that fines aren't issued.

      Not many, if any.

      • sandman87 on 25/10/2017 - 10:49
        +3

        So does that mean if I fit green LED's to my car near the number plates, speed cameras and redlight cameras wont get me? Not that I would ever speed or run a redlight mind you.

  • Blottski on 24/10/2017 - 23:40
    +2

    Have you ever seen anything that had you go 'there is no way i'll ever do that after seeing that'?

    When I was about 8 while walking to school I saw (about 20 meters away from it) a head on between a motorbike and a school bus (motorbike cut the corner). The motorbike rider's head was in his helmet which wasn't attached to his torso. I can still see it in my mind 32 years later….

    Have never got on a motorbike.

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 10:03
      +3

      I'm not smoking and I'm not riding a motorbike. I also don't want to live in a high level care nursing home.

      • mmd on 25/10/2017 - 12:22

        What have you seen at nursing homes to come to this conclusion?

        • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 12:29
          +3

          It's just depressing when someone is bed bound and unable to communicate, what kind of life is that?

        • tulalit on 26/10/2017 - 10:00

          @sween64: would you prefer to stay at home if you're bed bound and unable to communicate? would you prefer being cared by family member?
          I know a relo who is in this condition due to degenerative neurological disease. He lives overseas where they can get fulltime carer.

        • sween64 on 26/10/2017 - 10:24
          +2

          @tulalit: Home care would be nice. Euthanasia is another option.

        • MessyG on 26/10/2017 - 16:18
          +1

          @sween64: And a solid 'no resuscitation order' -___-

    • Save Medicare on 26/10/2017 - 14:01
      +2

      Methamphetamine induced psychosis comes to mind.

      Drugs not even once.

  • ozbjunkie on 24/10/2017 - 23:49

    Only called an ambulance once, for a friend who was conpletely non-responsive drunk.

    Paramedics at the time thought I did the right thing by calling - what's your advice on what level of intoxicated is sufficient to call an ambulance?

    Also, thanks for good work.

    • pao2x on 24/10/2017 - 23:57
      +1

      Slap em really hard, if they don't respond call the ambo. If they do you probably need to call the police….

    • BobLim on 25/10/2017 - 00:08
      +2

      nonresponsive = call

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 10:02
      +1

      You can grab a pen and attempt to wake them up using nail bed pressure, if that doesn't work call 000. If in doubt, call 000.

      The main risk is vomiting while on their back, if they're breathing well and not vomiting there's minimal risk. Put them in the recovery position; ie on their side.

      • pao2x on 25/10/2017 - 13:13

        I thought we went away with nailbed pressure and do the trapezius squeeze nowadays….. but really the *itch slap works on so many levels

        • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 13:53
          +1

          The first is a peripheral stimulus the second is a central stimulus.

      • [Deactivated] on 25/10/2017 - 14:47

        …or a sternum rub, (don't try this at home kids).

        • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 15:33
          +2

          Those we don't use, they can cause some nasty injuries.

        • [Deactivated] on 27/10/2017 - 11:13
          +1

          @sween64: I was in the triage tent at a music festival and a young kid was brought in. He was in Ketamine cocktail induced coma and his vitals were very poor. After a few minutes of working on him the trauma consultant did a rub and the kid shot up and projectile vomited. Unfortunately he neglected to warn the rest of the team of what he was about to do, which did not go down well.

    • Save Medicare on 26/10/2017 - 14:02

      Gcs less than 8

  • 0p on 25/10/2017 - 01:21
    +1

    Thanks for doing this,

    My questions:
    1) If you attend a scene where a patient is obviously deseased/unrevivable, do you still act like they are alive(take them to hospital…) also does having children witnesses change this dynamic?

    2) If you ever fall sick, are you qualified enough to self diagnose? Have you ever been in an ambulace as a patient?

    3) Would you rather fight 100 horse sized ducks or 1 duck sized horse?

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 10:08
      +3

      1. No. If they're obviously deceased we attempt to contact the patient's doctor and if they're able to provide a death certificate then that's arranged and funeral services are called. Otherwise police are called and they arrange transport to the coroner.

      2. It depends what's wrong with me. If it's tonsillitis or gastro then yes, but I'll stick go to my GP if I'm not sure what's wrong. No, I've never been a patient in an ambulance. I have fallen about 3 m out of a tree and the people around me wanted to call an ambulance, I knew I was okay and told them not to. I've also sat in ED for a few hours waiting to receive stitches after I was accidentally hit on the chin with a hockey stick.

      3. 100 horse sized ducks, I'd try to split them up and take them on one at a time. Wait, what!? Just 1 duck sized horse, easy.

      • 0p on 25/10/2017 - 14:37
        +1

        1) I always thought to avoid trauma you sometimes act… But i guess i was wrong?

        3) I wanted to see if you liked challenges, being a paramedic, but i guess most people would choose the easy option :P

        • BigLeviathan on 25/10/2017 - 18:36
          +2

          Life is hard already, why would you add more complexity to it by dealing with 100 ducks :)

  • oodLes on 25/10/2017 - 09:40

    Whats the best first aid kit for home, and the best for in the car?

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 10:09
      +2

      For home: gauze, combine, bandages, band aids, gastro-lyte, pain relief meds.

      For car: gauze, combine, bandages, gloves and goggles (to protect yourself).

      • oodLes on 25/10/2017 - 10:11
        +1

        Thanks!

      • tik tok on 26/10/2017 - 10:18

        I never understood why people aren't allowed to keep a pocket knife (apart from it being used to harm others). There was a recent case where a car met with an accident and burnt. Passer-bys wanted to help the unconscious semi burnt driver but couldn't as he was still strapped in and due to the nature of the fire no one could unhook the seat belt. I believe, if someone had a knife the guy could have been saved.

        • sween64 on 26/10/2017 - 10:26
          +4

          Maybe some trauma shears instead, it's what we use to cut clothes off and could probably cut through a seat belt. They also can't be used as easily as a pocket knife to harm others.

        • BartholemewH on 26/10/2017 - 20:23

          Just keep a knife and don't go brandishing it around? I'm not sure how often your car gets searched though.

  • Scab on 25/10/2017 - 09:56

    If it's a really hot chick can you do mouth-to-mouth on them?

    • Chris Topher on 25/10/2017 - 15:51
      +1

      After you have cleared the airway of all vomit, yes. Usually they are cooling down by that stage anyway.

    • Save Medicare on 26/10/2017 - 14:04

      Not as effective as bag valve mask ventilation and you don't know where she's been

      • Scab on 26/10/2017 - 14:05

        Not as effective as bag valve mask ventilation

        I'm more effective, blowing is my specialty.

  • MoMoney on 25/10/2017 - 11:22
    +4

    Mate; haven't got any questions for you but just wanted to give you kudos for the amazing job that the paramedics do on the whole. I have always admired your willingness to go and help people; even when they lash out and attack you for trying to help them. You are massively underpaid for the service you provide society, and I really hope that changes in the future. Keep up the awesome work, Cheers!

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 11:29
      +1

      Thanks!

    • Scab on 25/10/2017 - 13:22
      +1

      You're just saying that so he can give you drugs.

  • mislaughalot on 25/10/2017 - 12:23
    +1

    Thanks for your hard work and dedication! I hope you have a long and fulfilling career. I'm a physio and would recommend core exercises (as you said earlier), good manual handling and easing off when you have acute episodes, for your back pain. Have a good day! :)

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 12:30

      Thanks for the tips!

  • LordPanda on 25/10/2017 - 12:24

    Congrats on find a job you love and that also has a meaningful positive impact on society mate.

    Do you see mature age folks joining the ambulance service?

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 12:30
      +2

      Thank you.

      Rarely but it does happen.

    • 17833 on 25/10/2017 - 12:45
      +1

      Can I add that ambulance education used to be run a bit like an apprenticeship, where you did time on the road and also had class time. As you got paid while you worked, this attracted people like tradies, police and more mature people who could not afford to have no income if career changing. This has been lost now as ambulance training has moved into the university sector. There are upsides for both ways of training, but certainly the life experience and different mindset and skills of a 'mature' person is invaluable, and sadly is being lost, at least in Victoria.

      • jasonb on 25/10/2017 - 14:04
        +2

        My state has a lot more mature age/career switchers for this reason. Only 1 year of uni where you have to support yourself then the service puts you through the rest, in a hybrid university degree/vocational on-the-job model. And they won't take school leavers into the the course. Having people from a whole lot of different backgrounds makes a big difference I think!

      • k-rokfm on 25/10/2017 - 14:09

        NSW still does vocational paramedic entry AFAIK

  • MessyG on 25/10/2017 - 12:57

    There's been a lot of posts about on Ozbargain about speed limits on roads being too low/people driving under the speed limit being annoying - what are your thoughts? Have you seen many road trauma situations and what do you think would improve things?

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 13:56
      +1

      I've seen a lot of road accidents. What would help if people didn't tailgate and concentrated on the task they're doing (ie driving), rather than something else.

      • Cusack on 26/10/2017 - 00:01

        The tailgaters reading this, listen to his advice you pathetic idiots.

  • Piranha2004 on 25/10/2017 - 14:25
    +1

    Ive known you (online) for years! I didnt realise you were a paramedic. I dont have a question but just wanted to say thanks for what you do. It sounds like a thankless task.

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 15:34

      Hey Piranha! Long time, thanks!

  • User123321 on 25/10/2017 - 15:46

    Do you think vaccines have a relation to autism and are you anti or pro vaccinations what's your opinion on pro choice ?

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 16:28
      +5

      Vaccines have no causal affect on autism. I am of course pro vaccinations.

      I'm also pro choice.

  • kangaroo on 25/10/2017 - 16:23

    Have you been called for a very trivial non urgent issue? Give us an example? Thank you for the service you do.

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 16:28
      +3

      An old lady that simply wanted a check up and she didn't want to go to the GP, a early 20s man who had the common cold, a lady who cut the tiniest tip off her finger. The list goes on.

      • Save Medicare on 26/10/2017 - 14:05
        +1

        Little do they know there are multiple bulk billing home visit / after hours gp services

  • Munki on 25/10/2017 - 17:05

    Do you guys work random shifts (i.e. some times graveyard shifts, some times day shifts)? How damaging is it to your body clock?

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 18:22
      +1

      The usual roster is two day shifts, two night shifts, four days off. It's pretty brutal.

      • Munki on 25/10/2017 - 19:10

        Cheers mate. Appreciate the reply and your service to the general public. We're so lucky to have people like you.

        • sween64 on 26/10/2017 - 09:27

          Thanks!

  • skimp on 25/10/2017 - 17:25

    Does your ambulance have the rumbler siren installed? Do they make a difference to other drivers on the road to be more aware of your presence?

    Thanks for your work, stay safe.

    • sween64 on 25/10/2017 - 18:23

      I guess not because I don't know what a rumbler siren is.

      Edit: Now I do. Considering their size I imagine they're only in fire trucks in Australia.

  • dezza112 on 25/10/2017 - 18:01

    Where do babies come from?

  • [Deactivated] on 25/10/2017 - 18:05

    Here's an interesting take on things from the UK:
    http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/armed-police-in-we…

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