Hi Ozbargainers,
I am a single father with a son who is about to start primary school in Sydney. I want to give him a good education and have been considering putting him into a private school.
Obviously being the only income earner it would mean the school fees would take up quite a bit of my savings. Therefore I'm debating on whether to put him in a private or public school. What do you guys think? Will he get the same education? Appreciate your thoughts and experience!
I don't think anyone here can answer the question for you as we don't have enough information. The answer can change depending on where you live.
Some public schools are terrible and some are great. It all depends on the public schools you would be sending the children too.
Without knowing that, no one here can give a proper answer.
Personally, I went to a private school but my girlfriend at thev time went to a public school. Her school was at a massive disadvantage to us due to the quality of the students and families at the school as well as having a much lower budget.
Home school. Doesn't get more private than that.
Dont forget selective schools !! all the best op/op's son!
I'd do some research on public schools around area. I know the area I grew up, certain public schools had an excellent reputation (where people would drive a couple of suburbs over to a certain primary school, to take kids to school perceived as better) .
I grew up in a relatively small, and very insular community, where such 'research' was as simple as asking around.
If you are able to drive son a bit further away to school each day, then i would certainly try to find out which is best public primary school around. It might be that the closest 1 is actually best, or it might be that to drive a bit further may be worthwhile (for a better school) .
Private schooling is certainly not always better. Its more about the commitment of teachings staff, rather than how much they are paid, that determines good outcomes for students
This is one of those argument like circumcision vs not being circumcised.
People who are circumcised think its normal and rational to mutilate the genitals of a child at birth, because it was done to them and they turned out fine.
People who have been to or sent their kids to private schools will think its normal and rational to send your kids to a private school.
I had thought similar, wherever people send there kids to school is what they are going to choose as being better. Interestingly it about 25-75% as opposed to 33-66% in the wider community. I guess Ozbargainers are more of a thrifty bunch so take the cheaper option more often.
The school for k-7 makes 0 difference, just recently graduated a private high school (would not recommend - religious education compulsory) but went to a public primary school. Has no impact on your placings in the world, it is completely irrelevant, primary school felt was just to prep and equip you for high school… and then highschool felt like it tried equip you for the world. I actually found out that our public school had more resources than our next door private school which is well regarded (cousin went to private school… the pompous kiddo). NAPLAN rankings placed us above… note NAPLAN has no impact on your life, just a government metric. People from public school went off to do neuroscience at the states top uni, smashing the UMAT, and plenty happy with their jobs in the trade industry. It's exactly the same for the private school. So it comes down to just your kids personal potential or if you want to give your kid a catholic education. No school is ever going to fully "unleash" your kids potential. You are, encourage them.
And a bonus is you save your money.
I would suggest you save your money for his college. A good public school would do. You can follow up with your kid and encourage him rather than expecting a private school will be any different from a public one. Some public schools has great sporting activities/programs, musical bands, and optional religion studies and languages. In some rare cases you may face a teacher who is not good in general. It happened for my kid and I had to move. Later on, I knew that the principal got to fire that teacher because of my reports about how he/she behaves and teaches! I put this as my kid lost interest in that time, and I had to do something. Now, as others suggested, it's also important that you keep following up with your child and never expect that they will be OK!
I would suggest you save your money for his college.
Damn! He can pay for his own college, it should be covered under some loan repayment scheme.
I'm not going to send my kids public the whole way just to pay for them at the end!!
It looks like you've already had a bad idea about Public schools. So go ahead with the private at least you get some confidence about your kid's education yourself.
Depends entirely on the teacher, funding is basically equal. Where funding is spent is regulated in public, while in private they're more free to focus funding where they want. For example, a private school with a technology focus may wish to spend a larger chunk of their budget on technology rather than music, sciences, etc. Public schools don't have this flexibility. If your child knows what they want to do and a local private school is dedicated to that subject, you may see a benefit in their later years of schooling. If music is a solid interest you may also see a benefit earlier on too.
Typically private school teachers are fired more easily for poor performance (no insanely lengthy process), where a crappy teacher in public can remain teaching for years and have the potential to put your child years behind their peers.
That said, salary and work conditions aren't too bad in public education and usually the teachers are happy with their jobs, beyond the odd old teacher that's retired but hasn't told the principal yet.
I went to a private school from kindergarten to year 10. I initially did well, but grades started falling through years 8 through 10. As I was the student, I can't pinpoint why my grades were falling, but I can say that I hated it there once we hit high school.
Our year was particularly negative, and although I wasn't the subject of intense bullying like some others, I do remember trying to fit in and make friends with some people, only to be ridiculed and classed a "loser". I begged my mum to take me out for years.
When she finally did and placed me in a public school, I realised that my education was far past my peers. I was actually one year ahead of them on the school corriculum. I also had an extremely "weird" concept of what the average Australian family was like prior to joining a public school, because previously I just associated with rich kids. It took a little while to adapt, but I made friends, many of whom I'm still friends with now, roughly 15 years later.
Que lots of fun and partying. Placing me at the top of the grade inspired me to study hard and stay on top. It actually became quite competitive in a way, with all the students trying to "beat" eachother in grades. At the end I did pretty well, had a choice between medicine and law.
I actually cringe now when I think back on my time at private school, lots of bad memories there. However, it did place me a year ahead of the public school, which inspired me to work harder. If I stayed at the private, I'm sure I would have eventually bombed due to me hating the environment.
I went to a public selective school. When I was in year 6 I did both exams and got a scholarship to a private school. I will never forget the principal looking down her nose at my parents when explaining the "voluntary contribution" that wasn't covered by the scholarship. My poor immigrant parents struggled enormously with the decision as they also perceived the private school would give me more opportunities in life. I flat out refused to go to the private school.
Ultimately when I went to medical school I couldn't believe the nature of some of the kids that had come from private schools - one kid had never taken the train despite living in Sydney for 18 years, another had never been to the movies. They may have amazing CVs but what kind of warped world did they live in?
What I find really interesting is that many of my high school friends who are now highly successful are struggling with the decision about private and many have chosen private even though they did well through the public system
I can relate to your comments about kids who came from private schools. As explained above, moving to a public school fixed up my view of the world, but when I went to law school and encountered the private school kids again, I couldn't believe what they were saying.
I have very distinct memories of:
It seemed that two out of three fellow law students at my university had a holiday house and were jet-setting to and from London and Paris each semester break.
Stereotypes around my area
- public/private (primary) - no real difference. I find people who went to a primary private school a bit hard to take sometimes; "oh its raining, I'm going to get wet" or "I've got dirt on my shoes"
- public (secondary): drug dealer who doesn't know how to properly read or write besides graffiti.
- private (to year 10): mixture of people who are only there because they have to be, and those that want to excel.
- private (to year 12): by year 12, most of them were a bit boring - too caught up in being able to get good grades and get into uni that whenever their head wasn't in a book, it was on a pillow sleeping.
I didn't quite match the stereotype. I did the minimum that was needed for me and that was enough. So, it kind of got hard to take everyone stressing so much, I simply did not get it.
Btw, I have and do catch the train all the time. There are some though who refuse to catch buses as they don't like them. And one student from here (that didn't belong at all, but that's beside the point) who would love to flash his wealth around - he had no friends.
I'll use the northern Sydney example again - if you flash your wealth down there people either (a) will immediately want to be your friend (b) flash their wealth back at you or (c) ignore you completely.
Most state primary schools are very good.
Best to ask your neighbour's advice instead of us.
If you advise the suburb the OzB locals could shed some light
When I was staff in a public school (non-teaching), I asked this question to my colleagues who mostly have their kids enrolled in private schools. They said private schools provide more support and have more resources for everyone. I asked specific examples, one cited that her child has ADHD and would struggle massively in the public system.
Now, my kids will be school age soon, I am still not convinced if it is really worth to go private. Of course, many parents feel their children are ultra-gifted, but mine were quite interested with studies even as toddlers. I just want what is best for them, but at the same time if I could save a few thousand bucks a year going public and invest these money on worthwhile experiences like family travel, then why bother with private?
The question is too broad. OP is in Sydney, where there is a massive geographic divide between east and west.
There is a difference, but most of the difference is in culture.
For Primary, go public and save the money for tutoring.
For High School, go private because culture builds character.
Private school is bad for secondary. Too many A-class rich di##head growing up, Rich parents who have no time for their kids to behave properly.
If your kid wants to study, they’ll make it anywhere:
Be a supportive parent and that is all you need my friend.
This is OzBargain. Public school it is way cheaper than an independent school
My own personal views and experiences:
Went to a reasonable primary public school, but due to the public schools around being one of the worst in Australia (apparently) - went to a Catholic school instead. This isn't exactly a classy area we are talking about, so you managed to get a (religious + normal) education and there wasn't any pompous, self-righteous little shits around. It was just enough to get a good enough grade/ATAR to get into uni - something the public schools around me would never deliver.
Move to Northern Sydney though, and everything changes. Public schools are ranked some of the best, and have produced amazing results.
I'll embrace the negs if this doesn't exactly float your boat but: The idea of all having an equal opportunity to perform and do well at school, get into uni and get a job for all who want to go down that path, is complete nonsense. It doesn't exist. You can stick (for the purpose of the exercise) a clone of an intelligent person in a really shitty school and another in a high end (public if they are good in your area) school and you will see - the one in the shitty school often succumbs to the shittiness and the one in the good school excels.
TL;DR - Just research the school beforehand, it will save you a lifetime of hate and regret.
Just because you send a kid to private school doesn't mean they will end up okay. I went to both, but I had a tough time at both.
At public school, I was one of the smartest kids. But I couldn't cope with the bullies.
My dad shifted me to private school after I got a scholarship (and after I got into a fight at the public school) but maybe I was already too far gone. I'd only been in Australia for a year and had just finished year 10 and now I was switching to a private school in year 11.
So now I couldn't cope with the sudden change or the academic competition. Plus surprise surprise, a lot of the people in private school were just as shitty.
Research the school, talk to other parents and figure out from there. Also know about your child to understand and see what they are compatible with. A particular school could be the best, but it may not be the best for your child.
Can I ask which private school did you go to? And was there very high academic competition? For some reason, people who spoke to us about this gave us the impression that the private school that they went to (probably a selected few) was not as competitive in terms of academic, but gave them headache in terms of peer pressure, as people who go to private schools are usually from rich families.
All I'll say is that it was a private school on the Gold Coast and our uniform was such that folks used to refer to us as farmers.
Blue collar work offers significantly better employment outcomes than white collar, degree-related work in Australia, in terms of job availability and salary, so the marginal return of a slightly better education will likely fall far below the marginal cost of it.
If someone thinks that the average, newly-qualified plumber or electrician has it harder than the average engineering or law graduate, think again.
We're recently debating about this ourselves. On the one hand we think there is nothing wrong with public schools. On the other hand we'd love the option of being able to send our kid(s) to private. Then of course, there is the very important consideration of peer pressure in terms of wealth, which would ultimately be detrimental to development of the child. I think we kinda settled with public….
hmmm depends if you want him to play Rugby Union or Rugby League…
Dependent on what area you live in. If it is an area known to have a lot of troubled youth/high crime rate I’d definitely recommend a private school. If you live in a nice family focused suburban area I’d say go for public!
We've had the same question here before.
Without political correctness getting in the way, it's not the place it's the people. These days, those that can afford private schooling in Sydney simply relocate to better schooling zones (…or pretend to), often to the north-east of the latte line (or Red Rooster line).
When half of your school class guest stars on Struggle Street and are too distracted by domestic issues to focus at school, the other half normally don't try as hard. Why stress yourself for perfection when you're already well above your class average?
But the most lasting trait I've noticed from the earliest school years is the tone of voice and accent. Regardless of high school and adulthood, tough surroundings often instill an aggressive tone of voice which can subtly follow you into adulthood, much like the top-tier wanky private school accent can add to an existing one. This of course can affect people's perceptions of you.
I'm against private schools since they add another layer of segregation on top of pre-existing socioeconomic status. This generates an irrational fear of "the other" from both sides. It also creates additional stress for low-middle income families, which can lead to its own issues.
this is not advising you what to do, this is just a very general broad observation i have made of SOME individuals i have met: they went to private schools and as you mentioned spent a large amount of their parents hard earned money in the process, however failed to do anything meaningful with their life and ended up in a generic job any high school drop out or tafe student could have achieved
bottom line: if they want to succeed, they will. if they dont, they wont. private school or not.
that $20k you might spend on private school every year, might be better spent spending quality time with them, going on nice holidays etc
For us we made a decision this year to get our son to a private Christian school as my older son was able to relate what went on at the public high school he went too ( and this is one of the better public schools ).
The controversy around the governments Safe Schools Program was also a major driver
im 1000% agreeing with you kids shouldn't be told there are not a boy or a girl and it is ok to undergo surgical and medical intervention to change their gender.
People can hate on me all they want but there are two genders male and female deal with it (sure some are born with both only they have the right to chose) We shouldnt be encouraging idiots trying to tell us your a women in a mans body instead we should be promoting you where born a man/women and you should be proud of who you are!
i'm with you!
i'm with you 100%! boy is boy, girl is girl!
This is a complex discussion.
I went to school through the public system through to university. It was pretty tough and I didn't get much out of the public school system personally.
I now have a daughter in private ( secondary) and a son in public (primary)school. My son will go private in yr 7.
My daughter has improved her results markedly in the private system fro below average to now above average.I believe in the public system she would be still be at the below average standard.
Interestingly I am on the school council of the public primary school where both of my children have gone.
My daughter left the public school in year 4 to go to private in year 5. In my view public schools (in Victoria) are not equipped in terms of funding to provide the breadth of opportunities and also only educate children to bring all students up to a standard point as required by the government. Also public schools are required to provide activities and other educational support broadly to all sectors of the community wealthy or not. Often times brighter students are not extended as much or motivated to achieve by public school teachers and the improvement in these students is not of the same magnitude as they are already at a good educational level.
This was evidenced in NAPLAN results recently in my school and also statewide. The teaching staff may also not be able spend the time with all students given the class size and the pressure to bring kids up to a standard as mandated by the education department. There is also an undertone of left thinking within the teaching community as well. Traditionally in Victoria the teachers Union is one of the strongest.
The financial difference was illustrated to me recently in terms of a yr 6 school camp. My daughter who was in yr 6 at a private school went to Canberra, as most year 6 children do. They flew both there and back. My son however in year 6 at public school only flew back, and traveled to Canberra via Bus. A number of council members asked the question of the School principal and senior teachers on the school council "why not fly both ways ?". The response was that the extra cost of around $100 would put undue pressure financially on a number of families. We suggested that the school fund the difference, which was strongly opposed by the principal and teaching staff.
If you send your child to a private school expect a base level of performance and experiences. If you send a child to private school you are paying for a premium service and therefore you are entitled to expect a better result. Like any commercial arrangement. It is in the private schools best interest to get good results in the final years as it means they can advertise how well they are doing and generate enrollments. In my view a win win. You get your child an opportunity or choice, the school gets the results.
Thats the main difference in my view, in Private school you get an opportunity to excel and get the best out of your self as you will be pushed to achieve, or a so so outcome in public school where you will not be pushed as there is no impetus in the public school space to achieve.
I recall a statement my daughters teacher said to her class "If you work & try hard, I'll help you. Otherwise perhaps basket weaving is the career for you, and you'll get nothing from me."
Can't imagine a public school teacher saying that.
I await the derision.
I went to regular private school from year 8 to 10 then one of the best ranked public schools in perth from year 11 to 12. Other than being forced to do religious studies there wasnt much difference between the two. Plenty of very smart kids at my public school who went on to easily get into university and future high paying jobs.
That being said if you only have a really bad performing public school in your area you may want to consider moving to live near a good one or going the private route. Moving may work out cheaper in the end.
You should also consider supplimenting your childs education with a private tutor if you see they have issues with a certain subject. I had issues with calculus but with a few months of private tuition I was back on track.
The main issue will be how smart the person is. Going to private isn't going to make you any smarter you may make some good social networks though and in the end for a lot of work its more about who you know and not what you know =P
I went to a Private school from Year 7 - 10. Great upbringing. Great standards and great peer support. Aced my exams.
Then I Went to a Plumpton High School Year 11 - 12. Pure laziness, hardly any support. Pregnancies by girls left right and centre. Drugs and alchohol and mind you smoking in schoolyard (of course Teachers do not see this). Year 12 in red p plates doing donuts in front of school bus area. Fewer than 3% of the students around me cared about high HSC marks.
Morals and respect are taught properly in private/christian schools. Public school not so much. They make you work hard in Prviate/Christian schools but these are fundamentals later on. Regardless of what you choose, you definitely need to find a good private school or a respected public school. Good luck
Yeah the reputation is the key. Im glad my parents sent me to private and not the first public school as that one sounded similar to your one. Then when they moved the public school I went to was very good.
If you have to ask complete strangers on a bargain hunting website you are probably not on the right track
The comments are overwhelming in support of public because it is a website for cheap and stingy people not wanting to spend money.
My advice is private v public is too board of a argument you need to look at the schools on individual merit some are good and some are shocking based on the area you live in.
The real question is how to find a good teacher for your kid.
All Schools have hidden gems and bad eggs.
how much money do you have?
I went to a private school and I don't think I can ever repay my parents for doing this. I have made some super strong connections and life long friends from my time there. Not saying you are not able to make life long friends at public school at all, but I was lucky and had a great year level. I know I wouldn't be at the same level in my career as I am today without having gone to private school. This is just my personal experience. I haven't decided if I would send my kids (when I have them) to private or public yet.
I'm a teacher in the Public system. All my education was public. My partner was brought up in a private school.
Observations - Her/ and her friendship group have unbelievably poor Mathematical skills (basics like timetables, basic in head percentage calculations- can't do them). They were required to have the then fancy graphic calculators, which had 'snake'.. which she got very good at! So drawn into something than may sound good on paper. She was exposed to better catering courses and external sports programs. I was pretty lucky. My education came from one of the worst reputed public sites in the state. Which means it had some money thrown at it and my teachers were mostly excellent. My group of friends almost all went on to University, yet all in totally different careers. On the downside, I was exposed to people trying to steal my shoes etc in year 8,9. But, I guess it made me strong (never lost my shoes). I probably should add most of the bad stuff came from people outside the school sneaking in. So probably more a reflection of the socio-economics of the area.
Being a teacher myself, I would ask ANY school these questions:
What is your Behavior Management policy and process? What are the consequences and more importantly, what are the rewards? Does this school look after the good kids or spend the entire time trying to mold the bad?
What are the Unit Plans, semester by semester/ topic by topic?
Can I please see a teachers mark book / students results from the previous year?
Can I please take a tour of the school to look at the classroom displays. May I please look at the feedback in a students book (chose a random room).
What extra curricular activities do you offer? Where do you take the kids on excursions?
What are some whole school events that you do to foster relationships.
Lastly, NAPLAN and following curriculum guidelines. These are a yardstick at best. The Unit Plans will tell you everything you need to know.
Judge the school, not it's title.
And ask to see the toilets before the cleaners arrive. You can tell a lot about a school by the state of their dunnies.
Best to ask first though.
That's my restaurant selection strategy!
Please tell me that a teacher knows the difference between timetables and times tables.
He does. 15 min lunch break, no time to proof read, only human…all that stuff.
Personally, it depends where you are. If there is a strong public school, send your kid there - but if there aren't any that meet your approval and you can afford it without having to make sacrifices, go the private school route.
Growing up in Melbourne, I was sent to a Private School - not for any religious or ideological reasons, it was just my parents didn't rate the local public schools in the area. They considered moving suburbs, but they really liked the house and neighborhood and they could afford it, so it was private school I went.
When we moved back to NZ, we ended up in an area with an excellent public school with a good reputation and well regarded leadership, so I was just sent there instead. Obviously different countries, but there was no drop off in terms of quality of education and the attitude that was instilled in me.
How much does networking matter if you are going on to tertiary?
Its the university friends that mattered to me. Does coming from a public school make a difference to who your friends are in uni? (not just correlation)
The ones who went to public schools are doing fine, though many are sending their own kids to private.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/the-sydney-suburb-w…
Very interesting interactive map. In my area, the more prosperous suburbs have higher rates of public schooling for primary, but that drops off in secondary. I suppose it comes down to the reputation and intake area of your local school.
I think this depends on where you live. In my suburb the local state school is not great (we didn't consider schools when we purchased - long story) and so my son goes to one of the local private schools (we have half a dozen within 15 minutes of our house). The local state schools use a lot of its funding for programs for "kids at risk" which is great for the community and something the area needs but will not personally benefit my kids and they will miss out on programs some of the other schools offer. We looked at all the private schools and basically went with our gut about which would be a best fit for us. My son has just finished his first year there are we are very happy with it. That being said if we had a good state school near us (that we could get into - they are pretty strict about catchment areas here) then we would have done that. All my friends who live in "better" suburbs send their kids to state schools and are very happy with them.
Not sure if I’m too late to comment but here’s my 2cents.
First of all, I’m brought up in a public school – though not in Australia but the public system in my original country probably below generic standard in Australia. I’m well educated, earns enough, speaks 5 languages and lives well (ok I’m fat….that’s not related)
Now, I put my daughter in a private school.
Before anyone neg me, hears me out. I work in the education industry ranging from Primary to Universities and visiting schools and university is really part of the business activity.
Research
Research shows there’s little difference between Private and Public schooling system and this has been echoed in some comments. I agree and disagree. Before you understand that statement, you need to understand what are the metrics those research was done, and often they are based off minimum education standards set by the education department of the Aus state.
If you look up the standards, they are generic (and rightly so because details will trickle down onto the operation level at each schools and council).
Now it comes down to how the school implement these minimum requirements. These are normally audited on annual basis. This is done regardless of private or public system. That said, if the audit failed…then the school must be really bad so stay away from those.
Those that passed, meets the minimum requirements set by the standard. Each school can overachieve these standards, some even go beyond these standards but these are never part of the audit.
Enough of the audit and standards, come back to the research. The research are done on large population and on those standards – and remove any ambiguity of social status, fees, etc that’s not part of those standard. This is to ensure the research is fair and each school is evaluated on a level ground.
Based on that, there’ll really little difference between private and public system. All kids are taught to the minimum standards because all those influencers are excluded. Public system and private systems have GOOD and BAD schools. That level off the graph without doubt. I have seen prestigious private school charge enough per year for a major surgery but gives bad education, while private school that pump out future leaders at next to no cost.
The bottom line is, do not read a single statement from the ‘research’ but actually understand the research. They are respectable academics and research needs to be understood to be respected.
Focus of the school.
Each school have some level of focus. This is where the school will go over the minimum standard. Some school are super academic focused (many selective school falls into this one). Some are great at sports, arts etc. Some try to fit somewhere in between and others stands out in their specialization.
Observe the school’s events, past alumni – they gives the school’s focus and also how successful is it. Some school wants the kids to learn one more languages over others, while other school’s runs special music program. All these plays a role in kid’s education.
Selection process – location vs interviews?
Most public school have a catchment area, the better ‘known’ school the more expensive the properties. Private school have known to not have a catchment but runs selective interviews before enrolment.
Public system runs a catchment system where they can take in kids from certain population in the map. You need to know the populations that lives there. ABS often are good guides to give an indication. Knowing the area i.e. lives there, gives a better indication, you get a ‘feel’ of what generic population out there and what kind of family background the kids would likely be in the same school
Private system runs selection process. These selection process can range from picking kids from certain family background to religious background. Private school normally gives priority to kids from same family as they already know the family and their risk of reputation will be slightly lower compared to a new family. It is to ensure the school is able to maintain the attraction to family of certain background, religion, etc. Some school set fees so high that it only attracts family of certain capability. It all comes down to what this school’s focus.
I tend to good level of attention to this point because kids are very easily influenced. Their thought process is made up of many but often peer pressures, environment, group mentality will have stronger influence over logics. Kids will pick up common habits, thinking process, mannerism, attitudes etc which will have very large impact in their future.
No one size fits all. Nope. Look at your kids, what do you see in them? Is your kids have talents in certain area? No point for your talented kids in arts and put them in a school with strong focus on sports, no point trying to grow watermelon in the desert soil.
I choose a school with strong focus in area surrounding my kid’s natural interest, extra-curricular activities are for you as a dad to organise that can re-inforce the education. This does not have to be extra lessons, could be simple visit to the library or events. Whatever you chose, good luck to you. The above view is done purely from my personal experience and opinion working in this industry.
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Apply for the best public schools, they'll destroy private schools by a long stretch.
Travel may be an issue however, which is why local schools are generally preferred by parents.
You're paying for the public system already, so use it.
generally you shouldn't ask these sorts of questions, as the majority of people would have gone to public schools, its 75% to 25% ,..
second, its a stringy website with people that mainly cant make ends meet who would never have the opportunity to put someone through a private school..
so really, best to ask somewhere else,. imo yes its worth it, public schools are just terrible.
public schools, its 75% to 25% ,..
Really? Perth high schools are only 55% public, 45% private. And thats still stable a few years after the boom ended.
Primary schools are 71% public though, up from 67% a few years ago.
IMHO, a real Ozbargainer would rather spend $200k moving to a nicer postcode, than on private school fees.
Really? Perth high schools are only 55% public, 45% private
Perth is not Sydney or Melbourne where it's super expensive and you gotta compete with asians.
in my state at least, all the 20/20 subject winners and the perfect score TER's come from private schools, dont know how it is anywhere else, but makes sense.
Clearly you have no selective public schools in South Australia :-)
Disclaimer: Please note the following is my opinion and not representative of NSW DoE.
If you live in Sydney, go public school.
Souce: Worked for the NSW Department of Education state office (currently seconded to a different Department but associate myself with Education primarily). Have worked very intimately with NAPLAN, HSC and other data as well as school funding (i.e. how schools are funded). I'm also across different aspects of the schools portfolio such as school planning, annual reports, teacher professional learning, etc. There has been a tremendous shift in how schools are run and we are becoming more and more evidence-based and schools are collaborating a lot more in order to find what we perceive to be best practice (please note these have been backed up by studies). Results in NAPLAN/HSC are only part of the equation - but of course the media would like to tell you otherwise.
The best way to know if a school is right for you is for you to go and visit them and see for yourself if the programs they offer your child(ren) are what you would consider to be of quality. The problem with public school would be that you can't really choose which one you can send your child to, unless you're willing to move (or illegally use someone else's address) as it is dependent on local catchment. Of course, out of area enrolments are possible, but you will just need to be able to justify why you want to send your child to that school instead of their local.
Just as an FYI as well, I know a lot of lower socioeconomic schools have excellent programs which are more geared toward 21st century learning than some of the higher SES schools - which haven't changed much since the 80s or 90s. So really, go off anecdotal evidence as much as you want, but ultimately, I would urge you to go to the schools you are interested in sending your kid(s) to and see if they satisfy you. I hope you also bring your children along with you and ask for their opinion too - after all, they're the ones going to it!
You can get a great education from good public OR good private schools.
We made the decision to go private, even though we both we to public schools ourselves.
The private school we chose costs around $3000 to $4000 per year for each of our two kids.
But the benefits are worth it, the choices and extras available are great.
Great facilities, on-site pool, on-site farm, on-site theatre, world champion robotics programme, the list of things is massive.
Yes it will probably cost us $50000-$60000 per kid (times two, for two kids) for complete primary and high school, but we think it will be worth it.
You can still get a good basic education at good public school though, just check out each school first.
For primary education, public is just fine. Private would be beneficial for high school though imo
It depends more on the school itself. There are good public schools and good private schools. There are inferior ones for both too. Some schools have accelerated classes (or separate students into different groups based on their maths results).
The main advantages of the top private schools are: (1) their year 11 and 12 maths and science (physics and chemistry) teachers are often PhDs. (2) Maths are often taught 6 months - 1 year ahead of most other schools. (3) Better equipments / facilities.
Connections / networking - at high school level, I doubt it matters. Some of the students from those top private schools are snobs. If your son is a sub-par student, I doubt he will be able to make any useful connection. You get way better connections from work or university / postgraduate.
A lot of students from those top private schools got into good university courses but struggle more than other students (especially in the first year uni). It is because they no longer have the advantage once they go into university.
Only the top private schools are worthwhile. Average private schools, there isn't much benefit.
One other consideration:- how good a particular high school (thread has long diverged from OP's grade 1) is may depend heavily on whether your child gets into a special program - academic and/or arts based, where they are taught separately with other motivated kids for the core subjects.
It may be worth applying for those programs, and having a private school as a backup.
For primary i would say Public School, save some money for a better high school(ie private or move near a good solid public school) or spend it on his interests such as sports/other activities.
ofcourse private school, protect them against safe school program, don't risk their futre
I would personally highly recommend you place your kids in public school but spend the additional saved money on tutoring so they can get into opportunity classes and eventually selective schools because i personally believe selective schools are the best for delivering a comfortable life for your children when they are adults because they are basically a direct enterance into universities in australia. As for the manners issue i would say if you find your child swearing or being overall disorderly remove them from public school and sacrifice your own lifestyle and put them in the best school you can afford because at the end of the day the only real success indicator in life is your children’s success so you will regret it forever if you dont do everything in your power to provide for your children, your quality of life may decrease but if you arent materialistic it shouldnt be a problem anyways.
Put him into a "good' public school, try to get him to surround himself with good friends, spend all the money you saved on family holidays :)
I went to a pretty shit public high school then private, not too different in my opinion, other than the fact that uniform at private high school is pretty expensive, whereas public school I could save a bit by buying from Lowes or some shit. As many have mention good education starts from home, teach him to study hard and he'll excel anywhere, but obviously if he hangs around the right people he'll be motivated to study as well. The right attitude is more important than public or private school. I do recommend sending him to a public school & saving your money for stuff like tutoring when he enters high school, but that's just my opinion. At primary school I feel like the difference isn't that important - I reckon save yourself the stress and worry about high school instead because I feel like that impacts your kid's life more significantly.
At the end of the day, just make sure he grows up happily, give him enough support & love and you'll be fine mate.
Let say 10k per year for 6 years. 60k total.
If your millionare yes private, if not dont even bother waste of money.
Put the 60k in his bank account, trust me he be alot happy when he grows up and see that cash.
At the public school, 60k will buy him a lot of crystal meth!
Sorry, I think the kids call it "ice" now.
In private school there are plenty of ice users.
What your point?
Just a joke. Drugs are bad.
But "wasting money" on a private education is better than wasting money on other crap.
Not sure giving 60k to any teenager would be a smart move.
He'll probably buy something too powerful and then wrap it around a tree.
Or not.
@zathras:
No smart parent would give their children 60k straight up. Give it as deposit to get their first home loan.
Simple: ask around your colleagues. See how many in private or public.
I have done that research in my company and found that it’s half half. We all getting the same money, doing the same job. I don’t see the return of investment.
Best to pick a suburb with good public school to live in and you save up the fees for a house. Haha
sorry, good school have zoning, which mean houses in the zone are super inflated price, unless you want to rent in those areas. In fact you will find the price you save from buying outside of those zones will be plenty enough to send you kid to private school. Eg: blawyn north, glen waverley, mckinnon just to name the 3 in melbourne. Melbourne High and McRob are public schools but you need to go through an entrance exam and only top 2% from each school qualify so it's not really a school for everyone and you get the elites of melbourne going their basically.
As a private school (survivor) from kindergarten to year 12…I don't think you should, no.
The facilities are better by far (climbing walls, swimming pools, tennis courts etc) but from what I found, the people that go there are the most unbelievable snobs and I just couldn't stand it.
Plus, I know teachers who have been told essentially they need to make the subjects easier so that results are higher…yeah.
Public school prepares you for life.
the people that go there are the most unbelievable snobs and I just couldn't stand it.
All the more reason to send your kid there. They might be snobs, but they're harmless and decent.
You seem to believe having money makes you decent…?
The two statements:
They might be snobs
and
they're harmless and decent
are contradictions. I fail to see how thinking yourself better than those with less money is a "decent" thing. Please do elaborate.
are contradictions.
No, they're not.
I live around a bunch of snobs, but I wouldn't call them bad or unpleasant people.
You seem to believe having money makes you decent
We all have different definitions of what it means to be decent. I rather live in an area that's not doing it tough.
@smuggler: Yes, I view looking down on people based on anything that isn't their personality as a negative trait.
As an example, I now look down on you because you are quite clearly one of those snobs that you claim to live around.
This isn't because of the area that you grew up in, the colour of your skin, the balance in your bank account - it's entirely based on views you have put forth online, promoting your personality. Your views appear not to reflect that of a decent person. I'd be interested to hear what your definition of "decent" seeing as it seems to differ from mine.
tl;dr I think you're one of the snobs you claim you live around.
A lot of religious private schools have a lot of serious organisational problems. But they hire people who are very good at inspiring your confidence, despite the chaos behind the scenes. And a lot of reviews will rate a school highly just because it happens to promote the same religion as theirs, not really minding whether the actual school is good or not.
If you're not happy with a school or your kid isn't happy or something is just weird, who are you going to complain to a private school? The principal who is part of the old boys religious club? The Board of the church that runs the school? At least in a public school you have some real accountability you can follow up if you ever needed to. The buck stops with the Premier of your state with a public school, and not a panel of local charismatic religious leaders.
There are good public school and bad ones. Same goes for Private school. Best you get the school average scores or ratings, I know VIC has one and then do a spreadsheet of all the school in your area. Personally, primary school, wouldn't bother with private as I don't see the value. High school however I would definitely send them to private, mainly because I want to give them the best opportunity to succeed. Then they will have the initiative on choosing their career path and university and not the other way around. I also want them to be surrounded by like minded and successful ppl which by all accounts will help them with their career choice. Having said like, I wouldn't just send them to any private school, it would have to be the ones in the top 20 of every year's VCE scores. So do your research. It's not a matter of private vs public, black vs white.
Also, I see private school and public school much the same as private sector and public sector. Take auspost for example, no matter how much ppl complain, they will still be around and their service will still be mediocre where as a private company like Sendle, if they don't maintain their quality of service they will lose client, profit goes and eventually shut up shop. You can complain all your want about a home room teacher in terms of the quality of their teaching, but she/he ain't going to be fired over it, however if it's private school, there is a status quo on the quality of education they must deliver as you are paying alot of money every year so you demand higher quality.
Should I Put My Son into a Private or Public School?
Private if you can afford it, Public if you can't.
Either homeschool or send your kid to a 'Catho' school. Public schools aren't about education, they are about indoctrination. There's a difference. Pink Floyd's 'Brick in the Wall' summarizes my feeling towards state schools.
I went to a public school and I am currently 29 and work at a call centre.
My brother went to a private school and just finished his bachelor and is on his way to doing really well in his chosen field.
Plot twist I went to a selective school half way through high school. But I dropped out.
So depends on the kid, if they have shit work ethic like myself, they they will probably screw up wherever they go.
I know what you mean. You see your friends at late 20's have a high incoming job (80k), where is yourself sitting at minimum wage and have no ideas of where to go in the future. It is incredibly frustrating……I am in a similar boat, have got the qualifications but working in the wrong industry. My families have thought I was lazy, but no, things change compared to 5 years ago.
In addition to that,a lot of your friends may stay with their families, and for me late 20's all friends have their own things to do, you may feel lonely too.
When I was working mining jobs previously, I felt the country needs to balance more on the salary. They always have more people applying for the jobs, one time BHP had 36000 applicants for 300 jobs, if they lower the income, let's say 110k to 80k (plus bit of accommodation support), it would be more appropriate to help the other people who would just like to have a job to survive. A lot of the grad programs are over-rated, the retention rates are high even they landed an entry level job, with the university as a factory production places, I don't see any differences between public and private schools. The kids need to start work ASAP, so they may have better career options after finishing high schools, unlike us being miserable in late 20's don't even know what to do next…
I went to both Public and Private schools , no difference except private charges through the ass, hated private schools as well, seemed to be a lot of people I didn’t like
I have been to both private and public schools. In my experience in private schools there is a bigger promotion and availability of extracurricular activities and more funding into facilities. Private schools also had higher drug usage and much more bullying. In public schools all the troubled kids tend to leave school at 16 and you are left with people who actually want to be there. If you take the $100,000+ you would spend on private school and put it into a deposit for your son I'm sure that would give him a much better leg up then spending time with a bunch of rich kids. Other piece of advise is to get him to get a part time job as soon as possible. Thanks
There isn't a right or wrong answer to this question. It's whats best for your son. Some children thrive in public school and some children may not. It's the same thing with single sex schools.
You need to ask yourself what do you think is best for your son.
When we first came back to Melbourne, Australia after about 7 years overseas (dad was on contract work in PNG and Brunei), my parents put me in a private school (Ivanhoe Grammar) thinking it would help me settle in better. After 3 months, I told them to stop wasting their money as many of the kids there lacked discipline(many were from well to do families and did care). The teachers were not fantastic, the outfits were very expensive and uncomfotable ($600.00 summer and winter outfits - this was 35y ago) and every little thing costs money eg. library levy. The fees were very expensive and I thought I was getting a sub-par education. I then moved to a backwater public school in the Northern suburbs which had great teachers and the kids were much better behaved - I had a great time doing my year 12 there and did well enough in my VCE to get into the course I wanted. Choosing a good school is important but it can be public or private.
My kids go to a good Catholic school with a good reputation and good discipline - this is mainly because it was the best (and affordable) school located where I live. The school has high fences and they take security of the students very seriously which was also important - also, you would get a call if your kid didn't turned up to school and you didn't inform them. Their fees are also pretty reasonable for a private school.
Hey hotmumbo, how old were you when your parents put you into Ivanhoe Grammar? Year 12 (16-17)? Based on your comments you seem matured enough to observe these things going on and could actually convince your parents that you were right.
when transitioning from private to public school i was shocked to see the difference… kids were definitely a lot more naughty?? and rude at public schools, pretty drastic. however i went on to go to a public high school that was fairly well regarded and that was more of less similar to a private school environment.
If kids want to learn they will learn no matter where they go and vice versa
It can help to make some sort of judgement on whether it’s worth the while to begin with. If school isn’t about ranking, then maybe I have a false impression of our schooling system, yet our schools are non-holistic. In the light of a VCE system, that ranks solely on what you shun, I would have no other choice but to reiterate ‘standardisation’ as an imperative to all those who seek a decent school for their child.
I did mention that no matter where you send your child most of the onus is still on the shoulders of caring parents.
In addition, I believe it has worked for me, but each to their own.