Elderly Drivers: Grieving Family Calls for Greater Political Courage to Deal with 'Growing Deadly Problem'

teasatotalling on 20/12/2017 - 15:50
Last edited 21/12/2017 - 10:42 by 1 other user

The family of a young man killed by an elderly driver is calling for political courage to restrict older drivers before more lives are lost.

Sue Jenkins' 22-year-old son, Dann, was killed while riding a motorbike in northern NSW in October last year.

"[Older drivers] are a growing deadly problem on our roads and there is no will by governments to take any action to make it safer for the general public," Ms Jenkins told 7.30.

"We are second-class citizens because the independence of the elderly driver is more important than our right to expect other drivers on the roads to be competent."

Edwin Jessop, 87, was driving in the opposite direction and failed to see Dann coming and turned directly into his path.

A crash investigation found Mr Jessop had almost six seconds to see Dann.

Last week in the Lismore Magistrates Court, Mr Jessop was sentenced to nine months in jail and had his licence cancelled for three years after pleading guilty to negligent driving occasioning death.

But Mr Jessop's sentence was suspended due to his age and he will not serve any time behind bars.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-20/grieving-family-calls-…

Automotive

Comments

        • Euphemistic on 21/12/2017 - 10:24
          +12

          We already impose restrictions on young drivers, numbers of passengers, 3 years of p plates, lower alcohol limits etc.

          Different groups need different tactics. elderly drivers are more likely to attempt to drive cautiously, but also will have degenerating eyesight, slower reaction times, possible dementia etc. Heck, I saw an old duck struggling to manoeuvre her car out of a parking spot while wearing an oxygen mask - she probably shouldn't have been driving.

    • eggles01 on 25/12/2017 - 20:09

      what book of excuses did you find that in

  • SPCTRE on 20/12/2017 - 18:24
    +9

    Blanket rule: Test everyone every 4years. Written, practical and medical test.
    There now no one can complain about discrimination.
    You either pass or you don't.

    • jelko on 20/12/2017 - 18:35
      +10

      Why should everybody be tested? It's a waste of resources and will just add extra costs to having a licence with little to show for it. I believe there should be targeted testing. For example:

      You're old
      You've lost your licence due to demerit points
      You've been involved in a serious motor vehicle accident
      You suffer from a serious medical condition
      Your doctor recommends testing

      Plus, there is nothing wrong with discrimination. It's natural and common to be judged. For example there is discrimination in the medical field. Only people who have completed medical degrees are able to become GPs. Are you saying this discrimination should be stopped?

      • SPCTRE on 20/12/2017 - 19:29
        +6

        Because everyone can failed a re-test. Not just one group.
        - Foreigners who got straight license conversion without test
        - People who get their license but never touch a car till they need to (5-10 years later)
        - Citizens who go O/S to live for work purpose but come back 20years later
        - Those that develop health issues and continue to deteriorate
        - Those that develop bad driving habits that starts to endanger other road users
        - Those that are unaware of new or amendments of road laws

        Is it not worth the resource to make sure everyone on the road is competent and not let anyone on the above circumstances slip through?
        I would even opt for defensive driving on the track too to make sure they are confident in their own driving ability.

        • mskeggs on 20/12/2017 - 20:20
          +5

          Is it not worth the resource to make sure everyone on the road is competent and not let anyone on the above circumstances slip through?

          Clearly not. I'm not being silly.
          It would cost many millions to test every one regularly, even just people you identify as high risk. And it would only get rid of the incompetent, not the people who can pass tests but speed or drink drive. Even the guy in the original link had recently passed his old age driving test. It seems to be an answer to almost nothing.
          We could spend that money much, much more effectively in preventative medicine or foreign aid or in many other ways to have a dramatically higher impact.
          Almost none of the safety interventions we make in Australia are worth the cost, as we already live in an extremely safe place.
          Want to actually reduce deaths? Ban motor cycles, smoking, alcohol, driving after midnight to 6am or in the rain or fog.
          In other words, why pick some random little action that nibbles at the edge of a problem and may not do anything to improve things?

        • Mike88 on 21/12/2017 - 11:46
          +3

          @mskeggs:
          Why not put the cost of testing on the motorists themselves? Maybe incentivise good driving records with subsidised costs

        • Euphemistic on 21/12/2017 - 11:50
          +2

          @Mike88: NSW do this. You can get a discounted licence renewal (half price maybe) if you don't have any demerit points. You also can get a 10year licence up to the age of 45.

        • ItsMeAgro on 21/12/2017 - 17:10
          +1

          @mskeggs:

          Some people in this thread are suggesting we all get driving tests so regularly it would cost hundreds of millions.

          With that kind of money we could have the elderly ferried around in autonomous vehicles that never crash in a decade or so…

        • mskeggs on 21/12/2017 - 18:05
          +2

          @ItsMeAgro:
          And it will give a new life to the RSL bar revenue too!

      • eggles01 on 22/12/2017 - 19:47
        -1

        I cannot believe there would be anybody so stupid that would deliberately make an idiot of themselves by writing the following statement,,Plus,there is nothing wrong with discrimination etc etc etc

      • eggles01 on 25/12/2017 - 20:12

        you left one reason out,all type p platers should have to be tested if they have more that two traffic offense in any one year

  • stemcell on 20/12/2017 - 18:54
    +18

    As a motorcyclist everyone fails to see me, the old, the young, the tourists, male's, female's, black, white, you name it and I wear his vis. Being ageist which many of you seem to be does not help, perhaps look at your own bad driving habits and try to fix them, the amount of times I've been cut up by people on mobile phones is shocking and it's only because I'm fully aware of my surroundings that I'm still here.

    Edit: I'm 34

    • Almighty Dollar on 21/12/2017 - 08:43
      +4

      I'm genuinely curious - what keeps you riding when you are at such constant risk?

      • Cheapo Moose on 21/12/2017 - 10:11
        +3

        Until you ride motorcycles you probably won't understand.

        I decided to give away the bikes a few years ago when I had kids.

        Prior to that I was riding sport bikes and I probably used up most of my nine lives.

        I do miss it though.

        • stemcell on 21/12/2017 - 12:10
          +1

          It's brilliant fun and I never get bored, I stopped for a few years when the little one came along but fact is you only live once and I might as well enjoy it as much as I can.

        • jelko on 21/12/2017 - 16:44
          -4

          @stemcell: Do you want to live as a quadriplegic?

        • stemcell on 21/12/2017 - 19:36
          -1

          @jelko:

          Is that a threat?

        • BartholemewH on 22/12/2017 - 09:46

          The boss lady said I can't have a sports bike… I do agree with her though.

    • sahh on 21/12/2017 - 09:19

      Reading that makes me nervous. My s/o just got his L’s …

    • ant meal on 21/12/2017 - 11:28

      Is it mandatory for motor cyclists to wear black? If you were to brighten up your appearance by wearing, say fluro clothes, perhaps all motorists might see you.

      • Euphemistic on 21/12/2017 - 11:31
        +2

        All modern motorbikes have daytime running head and tail lights. Isn't that enough?

        • ant meal on 21/12/2017 - 11:36
          +2

          Obviously not!

        • Euphemistic on 21/12/2017 - 13:16
          +2

          @ant meal: hi-vis wont make much difference. I hear people all the time complaining they haven't seen road work signs, and they are bright colours and huge.

      • Cheapo Moose on 21/12/2017 - 12:58
        +6

        Great idea…. then we can make it mandatory for everyone and everything to be coloured in high visibility just so we can all see each other easier.

        I've got another out-there idea though…. perhaps motorists could focus a bit more and show due care and attention.

      • SPCTRE on 22/12/2017 - 00:20

        People don't see road signs as it is. They don't even see white cars and still hit them. Wearing bright colour vest isn't going to do much.
        But having a loud exhaust seems to get people to notice bikers more.
        When police sirens goes off people actually look out for them to give way.

      • BartholemewH on 22/12/2017 - 09:48

        My gear is red and silver, but I ride an enduro bike on the road.

  • Gronk on 20/12/2017 - 18:56
    +4

    I don't think you can just target a single demographic with this one, sure I've had a few close calls with older drivers, but I've also had my fair share with

    • People who had obviously never driven a vehicle before moving to Australia
    • People who are concentrating on something other than driving at the time
    • People who are licensed to drive, but not familiar with Australia's road laws
    • People who are driving agressively for no apparent reason

    Those traits don't exclusively belong to any single demographic. While I'd love to have less near-misses on the road with drivers who simply shouldn't be there, it's not an easy problem to solve.

    • mskeggs on 20/12/2017 - 20:30
      -3

      If you are having that many accidents, maybe the issue isn't that the roads are apparently full of the poorly licensed?
      Or are you projecting what might be going on when somebody does something of the road you don't like?

      • Gronk on 21/12/2017 - 09:10
        +2

        Those weren't accidents I was describing, just examples of the type of behaviour that you see every day on our roads.

        I've been riding for long enough now that I can usually spot this type of stuff before it becomes a problem, but that doesn't make it acceptable.

  • robbyjones on 20/12/2017 - 19:38

    It is fact that the older we become the slower we react. Unfortunately some older people degenerate quite quickly and some should not be driving. This combined with he fact that when anyone over 60-65 got their licence you went to the local police station and applied and maybe had to drive around the block, so who knows how competent they were to begin with. I think there should be 12 monthly driving tests once you hit 80 and every 3 months over 90, funded by all drivers perhaps via insurance or a fee on the licences.
    I also think that anyone on the road should have a licence, pedal bikes especially.

    • ShannonN on 20/12/2017 - 20:21
      +1

      Who told you that people who are now 60 to 65 yr old got their licenses at cop shops?

      I call BS on that I'm 61 and got my license at a Dept of Motor Transport centre, (Ryde, NSW) when I was 17,(1973) I only know of cops issuing a license in remote areas (country) where there is no dmt within 100 or more klms

      • DebBol on 21/12/2017 - 08:25

        True I am 60 and got my license at the Rosebery RTA

        • airzone on 22/12/2017 - 13:41

          That's a block of apartments now. :(

      • robbyjones on 21/12/2017 - 11:53
        +1

        I am younger than you and in SA metro got my licence at the police station.

        • ShannonN on 21/12/2017 - 18:02

          Could be a Sth Oz thing perhaps?

      • Tejas57 on 21/12/2017 - 15:41
        +2

        my wifes grandfather got his licence this way:

        he served in world war 2. when he was discharged all he needed was a letter from his regimental technical ajunct to say he could drive. he got said letter, went to the roads department and walked out with a full licence. he only handed it in last year

    • mskeggs on 20/12/2017 - 20:29
      +5

      This comment is a pretty good example of why it is much better to get experts to set policy rather than non-experts.
      What do you think a licence does? Does it make you a safe driver? Of course not. It shows you were able to spend 20mins applying the road rules in a driver's seat.
      You seem to think it has some magical ability to make things safe.
      And licensing cyclists? Why not pedestrians and horses too.

      It's like I have tuned into AM talk back radio tonight.

      • robbyjones on 21/12/2017 - 11:51

        Ha ha, it’s just my opinion mskeggs. By your analogy why bother with licences at all? My point is that old people can be fine to drive one month and not the next, that doesnt happen with young people, of course it doesn’t stop idiots being idiots but it may catch someone who has lost the ability to drive safely.
        Yes, good idea on the horse riders, if they use the road they should prove they know the rules. Pedestrians should be on the footpath!
        Like the radio you can turn off your computer/laptop/phone.

    • RockyRaccoon on 20/12/2017 - 21:03
      +2

      In NSW here is the law in detail (Which applies to you as your profile indicates you are in NSW)

      BTW this would have appled to the 87 year old everyone is decrying.

      NSW Centre for Road Safety > Staying safe > On the road 65Plus > Driver licensing at 75 and 85 years
      Driver licensing at 75 and 85 years

      Laws for older drivers
      Depending on your age and the type of vehicle you drive there are different licence requirements. Below are the licensing requirements for Class C drivers and Class R riders.

      75Plus
      When you reach 75 years of age you are required to have a medical assessment every year to keep your licence. Two months before you turn 75, Roads and Maritime Services will send you a form to take to your doctor. When the medical assessment is completed, return the form to a Roads and Maritime registry or Service NSW centre before your birthday. Your doctor may also return the form on your behalf.

      85Plus
      Many drivers opt for a modified licence from 85 years. If you want to continue with your unrestricted licence you must have a yearly medical assessment and pass an on-road driving assessment every two years. You have two options when taking the on-road driving assessment:

      You can go to a Roads and Maritime testing centre for the assessment with a testing officer up to three times at no charge
      You can take the assessment from home with an accredited driving instructor and pay a fee, with no limit to the number of times you can be assessed within a two-month period
      The on-road assessment must be completed before you turn 85. Roads and Maritime will send you a letter with more details about the assessment and the option to take a modified licence two months before you turn 85.

      Modified licences
      Drivers aged 85 years and over have the option to change from an unrestricted licence to a modified licence. This licence requires an annual medical assessment, but not the on-road driving assessment.

      A modified licence allows you to drive certain distances within your local area to access the services you need, such as shopping, community activities and medical appointments. If you live in regional NSW, the allowable area will accommodate the distances between the essential services you need to access.

      If you would like a modified licence, visit a Roads and Maritime registry or Service NSW centre.

      You can also download a Request for a Modified Licence form on the Roads and Maritime Services website, or call 13 22 13.

  • Euphemistic on 20/12/2017 - 22:29
    +8

    We’ve all seen the old fuddy duddy that drives too slow and doesn’t appear too aware of the surroundings. It is a problem, especially as this demographic seem to be over represented in the ‘oops wrong pedal’ crashing through a shop type crash. They don’t have he reaction speed/agility to be in command of two tonnes of steel with 100kw of power controlled by a single pedal.

    It’s an increasing problem because cars are getting easier to drive while older drivers are getting less capable. Power steering, automatic, brake assist, and comfortable seating mean that an older person has more opportunity to drive. Back in the good old days grandma quit driving because it was too hard to press the clutch or turn the steering wheel.

    • whooah1979 on 21/12/2017 - 05:57

      this demographic seem to be over represented in the ‘oops wrong pedal’ crashing through a shop type crash

      Interesting. Do you have any government or private data to support this opinion?

      • Euphemistic on 21/12/2017 - 07:12
        +4

        No data, just what is in the media. Hence my phrasing ‘seem to be’. When a vehicle crashes into a building and it’s in the news it tends to be either a hoon on a corner or an elderly person in a straight line. I’m sure it would be hard to get some stats.

        I’m not saying we should take away the licence from everyone over the age of 60, but as a community we have a responsibility to work out how to manage drivers as they become less able.

      • GettingThePlus190s on 23/12/2017 - 18:05

        Why do people neg a comment that's asking if there's any data to support the claim? Obv. whoaah didn't realise the "seem to" (i.e. anecdotal, not prepared to back up) but an honest question shouldn't be discouraged.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/12/2017 - 23:14
    +4

    My Dad relinquished his licence of own volition as his eyesight became poor. He never talked about it, but I'm pretty sure that he'd had a serious scare, or two, before that decision was made.

    He was a proud man and I know that his reduced freedom, and role, wasn't easy for him. Especially given that for as long as I can remember, my Mum has driven like a woman possessed! Entire driving career - only one accident a bit beyond cosmetic, but maybe some luck involved there.

    She is mostly ferried around by taxi, these days - for the best, I think…
    :-)

  • [Deactivated] on 21/12/2017 - 07:34
    +7

    It's not just their driving, it's what old people have done to daytime TV that really gets my goat.

    • Cluster on 21/12/2017 - 10:59
      +2

      Old people watch TV, everyone else streams/downloads/time shifts to avoid ads.

      • JH100 on 23/12/2017 - 18:56

        The elderly I know are dedicated pirates. Wouldn't be seen dead watching FTA.

  • Candour on 21/12/2017 - 07:55
    +1

    our law is an ass. there are dangerous drivers who are repeat offenders who still get off without paying fines. Drunk drivers including the widow of an ex Pm also may have got off because they were of 'good character'. A NSW judge also perjured himself on drink driving.

    2 The government ignores abuses in many areas of public life and even creates laws to entrench different strokes for different folks. In this case it may be best to apply rules consistently on a risk assessment and overall societal cost/benefit analysis with broad public policy as an underpinning. Then restrict all drivers who cross these criteria, however politically unpopular. The elderly may be a convenient scapegoat. a soft target. NIMBY ideas where we pick on others.

    3 If we can scale risks and rank drivers in those groups and exclude the riskiest ones, we may find other more potent political demographics will protect these risky drivers more than the elderly who have no political power as yet.

    4 Maybe exclude repeat offenders and see what happens? Improve road conditions? Make car safety features like collision warnings compulsory. There are many complex factors which are relevant rather than just simplistically attacking all elderly drivers as a target group.

  • terrys on 21/12/2017 - 08:26
    -8

    "A crash investigation found Mr Jessop had almost six seconds to see Dann"

    Didn't it also find that Dann had 6 seconds to see Mr Jessop, or was he somewhere else?

    • Euphemistic on 21/12/2017 - 08:40
      +6

      Oh come on, Mr Jessop turned across in front of Dann. Dann probably though the driver saw him and would give way as he should. Dann may have had as much as a split second to react.

    • [Deactivated] on 21/12/2017 - 10:51
      +1

      You've very obviously never ridden a motorbike.

      • terrys on 21/12/2017 - 15:20
        -1

        Yes I have. I used to do so in an era when you caught the eye of the driver. I now ride a pushbike.

        • BartholemewH on 22/12/2017 - 10:07

          Bike paths are no obstacle for Mr Jessop.

  • Fake News on 21/12/2017 - 08:34
    +1

    I’m sure many elderly drivers could pass the theory test, and many would pass the practical driving tests they need to sit to keep their license.

    The problem isn’t their knowledge, it’s the reaction time of some elderly people- is there a way we can test for that?

    Additionally, if public transport were better and there were more subsidised transport options for elderly people many wouldn’t feel the need to drive anymore. Rego + insurance + license fees + car maintainence every year is a huge expense, and I’m sure many older Australians would love to be able to give up their car and save money, but the practicality of it with woeful public transport and expensive taxis means that many continue to drive so they can maintain their independence.

    If we want less elderly drivers on the road then practical solutions need to be offered.

    • Geoff-bargain on 21/12/2017 - 10:28

      yes there is a way you can test reaction time - many years ago the powerhouse museum had an exhibit that did this - you sat in a mockup car and the car in front of you (on a screen) hit the breaks and it timed you how long it took before you hit your breaks and if you would rear end them

      pensioners already get massive discounts on rego/insurance etc so driving is cheap for them.

      • syousef on 21/12/2017 - 16:49

        Great exhibit for demonstrating a principle, but not anywhere near accurate enough nor ready for use as a measuring tool to base whether or not a license should be granted.

    • Protato on 21/12/2017 - 21:58

      There's the hazard perception test which checks reaction time

      http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/hazard-perception-test

      Gotta pass it to go from Red P to Green P

    • SPCTRE on 22/12/2017 - 00:28

      Advance Defensive driving course. Do a few hot laps and need to finish within a reasonable time frame. This will test your ability to drive or not.
      Guarantee if your reaction is too slow you will go off course or take too long to finish.

  • sahh on 21/12/2017 - 09:29
    +4

    Anyone think there should be “senior plates” like L plates?

    My dad is in the old category, but still able to drive competently. In recent years though he has become quite a conservative driver, never over the speed limit and sometimes even below the speed limit.

    I was in the car with him recently and he was driving 50-55 in a one lane 60 zone (where most people drive 70 as it’s in suburbia). The amount of tail gating and honking we received was shocking. I feel that if we had senior plates, it would’ve prevented that.

    • Euphemistic on 21/12/2017 - 09:39
      +2

      If you are in need of senior plates, then you probably shouldn't be driving.

      Are you sure your dad is still able to drive competently or are you looking from a licence to keep him independent perspective? It's not driving slowly in a 60 zone that is an indicator, it's whether he can act quickly enough in an intersection, or worse, an emergency situation.

      • sahh on 21/12/2017 - 12:01
        +2

        He self regulates, he is still comfortable to drive to the local shops or anywhere he is familiar with the roads. I just wish people would road rage less especially when the roads are there to share.

        Just like we share the road the L platers.

        • Euphemistic on 21/12/2017 - 12:40
          +1

          That is good, but at some stage you might need to have the tough converation with him about giving it up. My old man isn't there yet. He is still fit, healthy and sharp enough, but that will decline.

    • Geoff-bargain on 21/12/2017 - 10:32

      Yes there should be G plates for geriatric

  • affable on 21/12/2017 - 09:38
    +6

    Bring on widespread self driving autonomous transport.
    Its happening right now - no driver, public roads. Just waiting for legislation to catch up with the tech.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaOB-ErYq6Y

    • Euphemistic on 21/12/2017 - 09:41
      +5

      Self driving cars for those who cannot is a brilliant improvement. By the time I run out of competency these should be widespread and I won't have to worry about handing in my licence and losing my independence because my car will drive for me.

  • jhmtaylor on 21/12/2017 - 10:00
    +4

    I saw that story. It was family needing help to deal with their grief. They even had a shrine to their dead son in his old bedroom. That apparently was not enough so they wanted to make a bigger public statement by taking 1,000,000 senior driver's off the road because of one accident.

    I used to work in the insurance industry and saw industry motor vehicle accident history for a 20 year period. The age group with the least number of accidents are those aged 30 to 50. Those aged over 70 have twice as many accidents as the lowest age group. Those aged under 22 have seven times more accidents than the lowest age group. Hmm!

    PS No one in that story thought it was appropriate for an 88 year old man be sent to jail. He has lost his licence and will not get it back.

    On a related issue, I had to go with my elderly step father when he had to have a driving test each year and it was tough. Not only did they assess his skills they also did a subtle mental acuity test.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/12/2017 - 10:03
    +6

    Lets be rational about this. The family lost a son and are visibly upset, bitter and now seem to have a grudge against the law and older drivers.

    If it had been a 17 year old P plater that hit and killed their son would they be calling for the banning or retesting of P platers or raising the age before you can drive? I think not.

    Having held a HC licence and driving country paper trucks, Sydney to Muswellbrook and Sydney Lithgow 6 nights a week plus rigid tippers, tip over axle semis and 36ft flat tops since I was 24 and having travelled millions and millions of kilometres I will back myself against any P plater or young driver.

    Having purchased a new vehicle in 2007 with ABS and not having driven anything with ABS I decided to do an advanced driving course. I was the only driver that completed the course without hitting the witches hats and the only driver to do 70K through the wet braking course without hitting the hats. Oh and that was in a Pajero 4WD.

    I was 62 then so I guess that makes me 72 now.

    S plates for seniors?

    How about D plates for drink drivers and I plates for idiots.

    It's horses for courses.

    • Euphemistic on 21/12/2017 - 10:29

      It's great that you are a competent driver at 72. I hope that you maintain your health and fitness for a long time to come, and also recognise when your faculties deteriorate and will reduce and then stop your driving accordingly. There are plenty of fit, agile, healthy 72yos that are capable of driving well. My mother in law is of a similar age and not well, and because of that has not been driving for years.

    • fossilfuel on 21/12/2017 - 16:24

      Agreed. Specialised plates for those with multiple offences under their belt. It should be enforced like L or Ps where they can get off it in a year or two if they have no more offences. It'll help the public identify the shoddy drivers. They'll either drive more carefully or won't go on the roads for X amount of time.

    • Lifeinflow on 21/12/2017 - 19:40

      Older individuals have vast differences in their cognitive abilities and health at any given age. Some people may be completely incapable of driving safely by their 60s. Others would be fine driving slowly and within their means into their 80s.
      Nevertheless I would advocate for testing every 5 years or so after a certain age and determining where any given individual is at. If driving ability starts to approach concern, but remains within the safety threshold, more frequent testing updates would be useful and a senior plate or equivalent may aid in other driver awareness and understanding. In this sense, other drivers will be more careful when driving around these individuals, similar to how I assume most drive around L plate drivers.

    • airzone on 22/12/2017 - 13:49

      How about D plates for drink drivers

      How about jail time and lifetime driving bans?

  • srpeel on 21/12/2017 - 10:12
    +1

    I'm 67 but got my license at 17. Up until 18 months ago I drove regularly (I live overseas and it's cheaper to take a taxi than buy and run a car - plus 'wrong' side of the road driving is not something I want to re-learn).
    In my 50 years of being allowed to drive, I have many accidents and speeding fines. When I was younger I only knew 2 speeds, stopped or as fast as was practical respective of conditions. Old drivers toddling along were annoying and considered as obstacles to get around at all costs.
    As I aged (after 50 and gracefully, of course) I gained more patience and my driving improved with respect to other road users, I slowed down and started to respect speed limits and as a result I had fewer fines and fewer 'close calls'.
    The point of this is that age doesn't automatically render you a bad driver. Accidents happen and sad as it is for those involved, it isn't something that was done intentionally. I don't know, of course, but I am reasonably certain, that the elderly driver was doing what he thought was safe to do, just as I am reasonably sure that the motorcyclist was doing the same. Isn't this practically the definition of an accident - 2 people doing what they thought was an OK thing to and both of them being wrong.
    My wife was in an accident a couple of years ago at a 5-way intersection, she looked, saw nothing dangerous and moved into the intersection and collided with another car - she was 49 at the time, too old to drive? She was judged to be at fault, but she doesn't think so, she looked and saw nothing dangerous and no-one made any comment about her age. Accidents happen.
    In 10 years time when driver-less cars are more prevalent and affordable, it would make sense to suggest that drivers over <an age> move to that kind of vehicle as a practical solution to any deterioration in faculties, especially if medically judged unsound.
    My 2c.

  • kanter on 21/12/2017 - 10:29

    I totally agree with the need for regular checks after a certain age, but I wouldn't jump with the pack saying it is all the oldies fault, especially seeing the amount of idiots of all ages using their phones while driving. This, at least you can't accuse the elderly of :)

    The overall level of competency behind the wheel in Australia is pretty poor, driver training only teaches how to move a vehicle, not to drive properly, and the learner scheme is just made to pass bad habits from generation to generation. Drivers are very passive behind the wheel (long straight roads on cruise and automatic gearboxes don't help…). Passive drivers pay no attention to their surroundings and usually have no idea what is going on. Add a bit of sneaky facebook and texting and bicycle/motorbike riders are completely invisible

    Add a good pinch of overseas drivers who had their licence converted to an Australian licence with no other form of training or refresher on Australian rules (like me!), taxi drivers who don't give a damn about other people, uber drivers who think they can behave like taxi drivers but are just worse, a few macho drivers who think they own the damn road because they have the biggest engine, and you're set for a few sticky situations!

  • [Deactivated] on 21/12/2017 - 10:43
    +3

    I have noticed young female drivers becoming more aggressive.

    • [Deactivated] on 21/12/2017 - 10:56
      +2

      I have noticed young females becoming more aggressive.

      • MetaphorOZB on 21/12/2017 - 14:14

        I have noticed aggressive.

      • Cluster on 21/12/2017 - 15:10
        +1

        It's about time they caught up to their male peers.

    • MessyG on 21/12/2017 - 20:12

      Please don't procreate ever.

      • teasatotalling on 22/12/2017 - 02:11
        -1

        I don’t need to procreate out of self loathing (woosh….)

  • HeWhoKnows on 21/12/2017 - 11:17

    Such accidents happen with all ages. P platers are often targeted as inexperienced offenders. So lets ban them from driving but then they would never gain any experience. Even better…Lets just ban everyone from driving. Then we wont have any motor accidents. Or will we? Bus and coach drivers have accidents too. Hmmm

    Silly suggestion from Sue Jenkins.
    One day she will be old.
    Will Sue agree to be banned from driving even though she is a safe driver…I dont think so.

    • Euphemistic on 21/12/2017 - 11:36
      +1

      So why shouldn't we test people more thoroughly? It isn't about banning older drivers, but making sure those that do drive, are capable of doing so properly for the safety of everyone.

      • HeWhoKnows on 21/12/2017 - 11:39

        Older drivers are definitely tested more frequently - at least in NSW. In some cases they have a restriction placed on how far they can drive. eg within 10km of thier residence

  • chocoteddy on 21/12/2017 - 11:44

    If you don't have the mental faculties to drive, safe to assume you don't have the same to vote.
    As my friend once put, "it's not your [old people] future to vote for anyway.".

    • petry on 21/12/2017 - 11:55
      +1

      americans all drive …

      • chocoteddy on 22/12/2017 - 20:43

        your point?

        I only said: can't drive -> can't vote.
        I said nothing about can drive.

    • munodi on 22/12/2017 - 01:01

      To purify democracy?

      • chocoteddy on 22/12/2017 - 20:39

        lol, just presenting a different perspective that holds it's own validity.

        I'm sided with the argument that there should be an upper age limit for voting just as there is a lower limit (when you think about it, they have the same justification reasons, i.e. not being "smart" enough to vote.) Democracy is flawed, yes - but worse is the people at the top who accept those flaws, instead of rightfully correcting it. A bonus from this is simply that politicians can now put their focus where it belongs - with the future, not the near-future.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/12/2017 - 11:50
    -1

    yoyomablue 32 min ago
    The comment section makes it clear how self centred elderly people really are & to hell with everyone else.
    And let’s not forget that the elderly have, on average, more accumulated wealth & by basic logic, have done more cumulative damage to the environment during their lifetimes. Yet they vote in larger proportions for parties that typically do less for the environment. So they have the money to fix their damage, yet selfishly vote to keep said money.
    So it’s a little bit of karma, when their sons & daughters end up treating them badly & neglecting them & farming them off to aged care homes to tip them ‘over the edge’

    What the hell does the above have to do with this thread.Seems like yoyomablue was born with nothing and still has it all. Envy is a curse.

    • burningrage on 21/12/2017 - 14:17
      +1

      Not sure why the neg. The comment did come across irrelevant hence this comment.

      • Baysew on 21/12/2017 - 14:27
        +1

        Perhaps people have taken this as a comment. Most of the text is the post from yoyomable.

        The original comment by yoyomable is off-topic and inflammatory.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/12/2017 - 11:54
    +1

    Euphemistic "It isn't about banning older drivers, but making sure those that do drive, are capable of doing so properly for the safety of everyone."

    I would have thought/hoped that would apply to ALL drivers.

    • Euphemistic on 21/12/2017 - 12:39

      Yes it should, but this particular topic is about elderly drivers. If the topic was about young drivers there will be different responses.

  • petry on 21/12/2017 - 12:00

    Everyone has a bad day - but young people seems to have them a lot. Probably because they haven't been totalled yet.

    Surviving is a tough way to learn. Older drivers have that experience. Additionally they don't tend to be on the phone all the time.

    And people of all ages drive sick.

  • VBO on 21/12/2017 - 12:23
    +1

    Cannot wait for some of you guys to get old…

    • champ21 on 21/12/2017 - 14:11

      Its still no excuse to put other peoples lives in danger.

  • iamagirl1969 on 21/12/2017 - 12:29
    +3

    Having been involved in a couple of accidents with incompetent drivers during the last 25 years, I think the bottom line is we need to move away from narrowing down particular demographics and just focus on what is deemed competent and or incompetent driving, in the eyes of the law. A number of years ago, I became involved in an accident that involved a 17 year old P Plater, who failed to give way whilst attempting to turn left onto a main road during peak hour traffic. After he t-boned my car, his response was to feign ignorance and then give me the phone number of his grandmother??? When I finally managed to track him down, I found out he had already had several driving infringements to his name (which the police at the time put down to (wait for it) "boys will be boys". A few years later (he was now 21 by this stage) I read in the local paper, that he had had failed to successfully negotiate a right hand turn across an intersection and collided with a small delivery van carrying furniture (the driver of the delivery van died instantly) As far as I was concerned when my accident occurred, the writing was on the wall that this particular driver (who has an intellectual disability and additional behavioural problems) should never have been issued with a drivers licence at all. Some years later a similar incident occurred (but with an older driver (a man in his 40's) who veered onto the wrong side of the road whilst passing me and side swiped my car (causing four and half thousand dollars worth of damage) His response was to get out his car (semi naked mind you- all he was wearing was jocks and a singlet (go figure?) (along with his abusive drug affected girlfriend who called me a white **nt) scream at me for several minutes and then jump back into their (damaged) car and speed off. Local police later tracked them both down and discovered that the driver has significant brain damage (caused whilst driving drunk some years ago and going through the windscreen of his car, after hitting a tree at high speed) and had only just got his drivers licence back (three weeks ago) Once again, someone who should never had been licenced to drive??? Neither of these people were (are) particularly old???? Yet both are menaces on the road???

    As far as infirm/unwell or elderly drivers are concerned. Both medical and family members need to be proactive in this instance. If a medical practitioner becomes aware that a licenced driver is unsuitable to drive, then they need to make the judgement call. In a similar vein, if a family member knows that someone cannot or should not hold a licence, then they need to contact the authorities in regards getting the person tested or removing the licence altogether. My own father became too infirm to drive and I took responsibility to have his licence remove and in return drive him where he needed to go. (Family can and should do this for older, unwell or infirm members) that's what families are there for to begin with. This is not the states responsibility.

    • freemoneyhunter on 21/12/2017 - 15:34

      I know someone who has downs syndrome got a license, ended up crashing the car in less than a month. There are a lot of people on the roads who are mentally disabled.

    • sleepytime on 21/12/2017 - 18:36

      Agree. Also want to add that just because a license is taken away, doesn't mean that the person will stop driving. Families often will play an important role in stopping that person driving.

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