I live in an apartment my neighbour underneath us smoke every morning and afternoon.
The smoke really annoys us and have concerns on this. Any advice on this? I have contacted strata and strata has sent letter about this but no action can be taken according to strata manager.
Not just an apartment issue. I live in a detached house next to renters who chain smoke. Still get plenty of smoke drifting in to my place, and the cooling unit on my roof sucks it inside on hot days.
That sucks :-(
At least if they're renters they will leave eventually. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
+1. I've got a pain in the ass neighbour that smokes. Despite repeated requests asking her to stop smoking or relocate to a different part of her property (her place backs on to mine) she refuses so I have to put up with the smoke drifting in my back door and worse yet, hitting the clean clothes I have just washed and hung on the line to dry. I even pointed out the benefits of vaping to her but she doesn't even seem to care about her health or her hip pocket (I probably wouldn't either if I was getting a shit ton of money from child support). Add to that the fact she has 3 dogs that when she leaves to go out for the day she locks them inside the house and they do nothing but bark out of boredom, coupled with the fact she leaves her bins out all bloody week long she's pretty much the worst neighbour you could ask for. Fortunately she's moving soon which is the bright side for me, hopefully I'll get someone who doesn't smoke and doesn't have dogs that incessantly bark.
You can report people for leaving out their green bins for longer than a day in Qld and also for having more than two dogs (unless they are a registered breeder). Btw vaping is illegal government makes too much tax and don't want to legalise it anytime soon.
@voolish:
Vaping not illegal, in NSW at least… But I think it's illegal in WA or something. Vendors can't sell nicotine in Australia.
Go to Bunnings. Get yourself an industrial fan.
@ozbjunkie: I think that's what he may be referring to. You can't sell nicotine infused vape juice. Some smokers won't get their fix if it doesn't contain nicotine.
I gave vaping kit to lady in old unit block she vaper now she love cane stuff ones.
It's not illegal to vape in WA, nor import nicotine for personal use. It is illegal here however to sell vaping equipment like mods and tanks, which is legal in other states. Australia wide nobody is allowed to sell juice containing nicotine (or nic itself) but you're able to import it in quantities for personal use without customs stopping it at the border, along with any vaping equipment you want.
I've been pulled over by the cops for a random license check + breath test in Perth and they knew exactly what it was and were actually asking how long I'd been off the cigarettes for and congratulated me etc, it's not a problem. In QLD they have some more strict laws around importing nic or juices that contain it, but people still do it because the government doesn't really have the capacity to check every single package that arrives.
I haven't had a cigarette since 25th Jan this year and have already reduced the level of nic in my juices (which I mix myself). Have also saved a metric shit-tonne of money.
@bonezAU: So is it correct to say that what most (all?) people sought in cigarette is only the nic itself, and not the feeling of inhaling smokes?
Set fire to her bins
All good info. I'm off ciggies for 18 months now.
Check out chefsflavours (UK) for oneshot concentrates and other diy supplies, hiliq for nicotine, fasttech for hardware, basedrop for pg/vg. pm me if you need any other info on vendors (or have any tips of your own).
Well done getting off the stinkies.
There's a strong soothing effect of hand to mouth motion (specific neurons code for this action in primates). Deep breathing is probably calming too.
A sensation of mild burning in the throat and fullness in the lungs is also strangely pleasant after lots of classical conditioning.
So patches, snuss, spray, gum are sometimes ineffective as they don't mimic smoking - but vaping does.
Also there's things in cigarettes that must be addictive besides nicotine. It's way easier to quit vaping than quit smoking. And when switching there's a weird craving for ciggies for the first 2 weeks which no amount of nic seems to relieve.
Not entirely correct. The thing that keeps you smoking cigarettes is the rush you get from the nic (and the other 10 million chemicals). With the style of vaping I am doing now (it's called MTL - or mouth to lung) it gives you a similar sensation of the 'drag' you get from a cig due to the restricted air flow of the hardware, but without all the tar and other crap. You get a nice refreshing flavour depending on the juice, and you still get your nicotine hit. Nic is a stimulant just like caffeine, it gives you a nice feeling for a little while then the wears off like any other 'drug'. This style of vaping produces a fairly small amount of vapour, and it's done at at low wattages meaning you use less juice and the battery lasts longer.
There's other styles of vaping where they drop the nicotine level down to a very low amount but increase the wattage which in turn burns through a hell of a lot more juice + batteries, costing you more. At the same time this produces massive butts of vapour but without any real 'feel' of smoking a cigarette. It's just like you're puffing away on something, getting your nic but no other 'drag' feeling like you get from a real cigarette.
@DrC:
Cheers mate, appreciate it and well done to you as well. It's a bit tricky at the start as I'm sure you know, there's so much to learn and so many people telling you to do something different. You really have to figure out what you like and what suits you. I actually work at a health/hospital campus and am forever walking past people smoking on the hospital grounds which is banned but they don't care. It f**ing stinks now. I look back and wonder why I smoked all that time. My long term aim is to continue to lower the level of nicotine in my juices, but as I've only just started out I haven't really lowered it by that much. One day I might get to the point where I don't need to vape anymore for a nic fix, but some people continue to vape juices with 0 nic because they enjoy it. I'll see how it pans out over time I guess.
@ozbjunkie:
Have been getting all my nic from HiLIQ, it's very good quality stuff. Shipping costs make me cry but when I remember how much I used to spend at Woolies buying cancer sticks I really don't care any more! All my hardware until now has come from FastTech, they are great. Free post via Singapore Post and to Perth it seems to only take about 12 days. 4-5 days from China to SIngapore then it sits in Singapore for 3-4 days and onto the next direct SIN > PER flight, then 2 days with Straya post and it's in my hands.
I'm not using basedrop for PG/VG, have read they have random quality issues - have been getting mine from aussie-ecigs.com and very happy with how clean it is, and the shipping is pretty reasonable. Also have been getting my flavour concentrates from there (U4EA) and have been pretty happy, but honestly I don't have anything else to compare it with. If you have any recommendations on reasonable priced alternatives I'd love to hear them.
You can report people for leaving out their green bins for longer than a day in Qld
Depends on the council and it also applies to recycling (yellow) and general waste (red).
Your concentrates are pretty good prices for 30ml.
If you're interested in more mainstream companies like capella, the flavorers apprentice, etc, try vaporeyes.
Also, http://e-liquid-recipes.com/
Is good to look at recipes and get ideas for flavour mixing.
I can't be bothered mixing as much as I used to, hence the oneshot concentrates from chefsflavours I recommended. They are complex like store bought juices but work out at 10aud for 150ml-300ml of juice rather than the BS 20aud for 30mL you get with ready to vape.
Check out https://www.chefsflavours.co.uk/174-one-shot-concentrates
I like "lemon refresher" from bumblebee, and "rhodonite" from DIYorDIE.
@ozbjunkie: Appreciate the info, I will definitely look into ordering some one shot concentrates, makes it much easier and less risk of mixing something up only to find later it's not much chop. The lemon refresher is 8 quid which is $14.61 but the impressive thing is the shipping is only 5 quid even when adding 5x 30ml bottles to the cart.
Will check it out a bit more. Cheers.
This is a terrible answer. There have been regulations passed specifically to deal with situations like this. Hassle your Strata.
Most strata for apartments are useless and slow. It takes weeks if not months to act on something. Good luck getting this through compare to other major issues on AGM and whether they stay as strata management continues to rip everyone off without doing much
They ONLY apply if your Strata takes them on and they don't have to.
Each apartment has their own Strata laws. There is nothing anywhere that says they have to take on new regulations. They are purely optional.
Well perhaps the OP should get a copy of the by-laws and see if the new model by laws have been adopted. If the smoking nuisance bylaw has been adopted (like in many large apartment blocks) it can and should be enforced. If the by law has not been adopted I would still hassle strata as the smokers are causing a nuisance and the OP building will have a by law dealing with nuisance.
@nickg: you seem to be the only person who os givign the right answer. In order OP needs to:
Confirm what the by laws are specifically around not smoking. It's now possible that the committee can decide that smoking anywhere in the complex that is causing people discomfort can be banned and punishable by a fine up to 1k (all this is from memory so i may srand corrected on some details)
If they arent you need to raise it and lobby for it, and believe me the people who are conscientious that go on the committee will mostly find smoking abhorrent and be all too happy to ban it
Once they are on board you need to be able to find proof of the culprit, could be video of them breaching the bylaw. If it was a noise complaint a police report would also stand
Once you have proved the culprit by providing the evidence to the strata manager uts uo to the committee or at least some of them to agree to fine the person.
If they keep it up they can get more fines, and if i am not mistaken fines are payable by the owner who needs to withhold money from the tenant, so they are paying (someone conform this though)
This process can take a while, however I would not recommend going to war as someone above mentioned. You dont know what people are capable of, and hitting them with fines is where it hurts the most
and if i am not mistaken fines are payable by the owner who needs to withhold money from the tenant, so they are paying
The owner pays? I own in a building with 127 units. My Strata will never take this on. The problems with enforcing it are not something they'll be willing to take on. The only places this would work is where the owners are in residence and hate smoking.
If i get someone next door smoking inside, it comes through the internal vents. I asked my Strata about this and they just ignored me. This is how much other, more important work they have. They are so not going to worry about this.
@snook: it doesnt matter that much about the owners, it matters about whos on the committee. You dont need to convince 127 people, you mainly just need to convince the committee. Its not always easy and it requires good relationship management skills, but if you have these it can be done. Past that you just need to get a quorum at the vote.
What a great answer!. Why didn't you say 'Don't breathe' or 'Wear an Oxygen mask.' etc.
Any advise on this?
close the windows?
http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/About_us/Legislation/C…
Sounds like Strata can do something about it given the link. I would send them this link and hassle them.
Strata can't enforce anything (they can ask you to stop though) without breaching tenancy or homeowner laws (they come first before breaking a strata contract condition such as not smoking). You'll just end up annoying the building manager as it seems the OP has already done.
Get an air purifier and close the windows when you smell smoke, or don't live in an area where you can smell your neighbors farts.
Breach of bylaws are enforceable in nsw.
http://lawyerschambers.com.au/how-to-enforce-by-laws-under-t…
Not before tenancy or homeowner laws. Also they must go through all the hoops mentioned in that article before doing anything, and even then it's a fine to be paid to the strata ($2000 will not cover the costs of the strata going to court).
That person could still continue smoking throughout the whole ordeal also.
Not before tenancy or homeowner laws.
residential tenancies act 2010 section 51(1)(b).
https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/act/2010/42/part3/…
51 Use of premises by tenant
(1) A tenant must not do any of the following:
(a) use the residential premises, or cause or permit the premises to be used, for any illegal purpose,
(b) cause or permit a nuisance,
smoking that may penetrate another strata lot is a nuisance.
Not if reasonable steps have been taken, as your link above shows.
But by all means, the OP is welcome to try their luck in court. The only cases I can find where smoking as a nuisance went to court are where strata sued a lot owner because they didn't take reasonable steps to stop the smoke going into common areas, and another where a tenant sued their landlord because the landlord didn't stop their neighbor smoking.
This is wrong, so wrong.
print this and tape it to your neighbours door.
http://www6.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/cons…
http://www6.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/cons…
9 Smoke penetration
only do this if you're in nsw.
I hate smoking and people smoking around my children, but smoking is not illegal and people should at least be able to smoke in their own homes of which their balcony is a part of.
That smoke penetration reg seems to essentially ban them from smoking on their own balcony unless they are in the penthouse, doesn't seem fair to me.
The OP could just close his window and it would be resolved.
Today its smoking, OP's thread tomorrow would probably be loud doof doof music, baby crying at night, or over zealous Ménage à trois.
If their smoke is entering another person's apartment then they are causing a nuisance. Why should their obnoxious habit over ride the liveability of someone else's apartment. Having an apartment stinking of cigarette smoke would be very unpleasant. If people want to smoke then they can stay in their own apartment; as long as the vents don't go between apartments as well. NSW now has brought in the following legislation.
Smoke penetration
Note. Select option A or B. If no option is selected, option A will apply.
Option A
(1) An owner or occupier, and any invitee of the owner or occupier, must not smoke tobacco or any other substance on the common property.
(2) An owner or occupier of a lot must ensure that smoke caused by the smoking of tobacco or any other substance by the owner or occupier, or any invitee of the owner or occupier, on the lot does not penetrate to the common property or any other lot.
Option B
(1) An owner or occupier of a lot, and any invitee of the owner or occupier, must not smoke tobacco or any other substance on the common property, except:
(a) in an area designated as a smoking area by the owners corporation, or
(b) with the written approval of the owners corporation.
(2) A person who is permitted under this by-law to smoke tobacco or any other substance on common property must ensure that the smoke does not penetrate to any other lot.
(3) An owner or occupier of a lot must ensure that smoke caused by the smoking of tobacco or any other substance by the owner or occupier, or any invitee of the owner or occupier, on the lot does not penetrate to the common property or any other lot.
https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/regulation/2016/50…
Although a baby crying is something that may be given leeway; you should not be so selfish to play loud doof doof music and having sex that is so loud your neighbour can hear it. There are noise pollution complaints that can be made to the Strata title organisation as well.
Those relate to 'common property' which is a shared area of the building such as a gym, carpark, pool ect, and not someone's own apartment/lot.
@c0balt: but it is their property.
(3) An owner or occupier of a lot must ensure that smoke caused by the smoking of tobacco or any other substance by the owner or occupier, or any invitee of the owner or occupier, on the lot does not penetrate to the common property or any other lot.
Strata conditions do not come before contract law between tenant and landlord.
The only case I can find of someone actually doing anything about it was a mother who sued her landlord because her child was 'unwell' due to neighbor smoking.
https://www.lookupstrata.com.au/smoking-in-strata-buildings-…
Note the strata didn't do anything, the court case was between the tenant and landlord. The neighbor that was smoking, nothing happened to them as contract law protects them.
That poor landlord. It's not his responsibility to stop the neighbor smoking and completely unreasonable for him to be expected to do so. What a dunce magistrate - no wonder there's only a single case to be found and nothing since.
They are enforceable, just not before tenancy or homeowner rights. If the strata was to take away elevator access, gym access, car park access ect then they are violating contract law between the tenant and landlord.
If the person smoking takes reasonable steps, such as smoking on their balcony rather than inside where the ventilation system may be circulating air between apartments, then surely the wind can't be blamed for the smoke going into another apartment?
If someone is smoking on their property and it's a nuisance to others, and it's against the strata rules, then strata can request that they can take reasonable steps to stop the smoke entering the neighbors apartment - but they can't take away anything from the person such as access to their car space (that's part of the contract between tenant and landlord).
Smoking outside on their own balcony would be considered a reasonable step to not cause a nuisance to others. The same could be said for the other party closing their windows.
Strata conditions do not come before contract law between tenant and landlord.
legislation enacted by parliament may override common law. strata schemes management act 2015 sec 153 does exactly that.
https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/act/2015/50/part8/…
Where does it say that in your link that strata law comes before common law? It's a link purely for strata laws?
Note the term 'unreasonably'. It is open to interpretation by a magistrate as to what reasonable steps are to be considered.
"the penetration of smoke from smoking into a lot or common property may cause a nuisance or hazard and may interfere unreasonably with the use or enjoyment of the common property or another lot."
Seems to me that someone who has taken the reasonable steps of smoking on their balcony has fulfilled those conditions, and the person complaining should also take reasonable measures to not have that nuisance, such as closing their windows.
Where does it say that in your link that strata law comes before common law?
for qld.
https://queenslandlawhandbook.org.au/the-queensland-law-hand…
An Act of parliament will overrule the common law if there is a common law principle and an Act which conflict in relation to the same area of law. This is because the supreme power to make laws is vested in elected representatives of parliament.
for your state.
https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/find-legal-answers/courts-an…
In Australia, laws are made:
by politicians in Parliament
by judges making decisions about court cases.
Parliament-made law overrules judge-made law if both apply to a case.
So common law will be overruled if there is a common law principal, to me that doesn't sound like a strata by rule will overrule common law.
The amount of court cases where smoking has caused a nuisance between neighbors that have gone to court would be a lot higher if this was the case.
surely the wind can't be blamed for the smoke going into another apartment?
Can they play music on their balcony too? It isn't their fault the air is carrying the sound? It should be obvious that the air will carry the smoke around, same as sound. If the smoke carries to someone else's lot then it should really be your problem.
Wouldn't want to have to deal with it though! If the strata can't kick anyone out or anything then you're at the mercy of the consideration of your neighbours which is a very poor bet when there's so many of them
It would be unreasonable to tell someone they need to go down 15 levels, through reception and onto the nature strip to have a cigarette.
Considering sound waves travel through solid objects, unlike smoke, it would not be unreasonable for them to be expected to turn down the music if it's traveling through the walls into another apartment.
You can't call the police to ask they request your neighbor stop smoking (well you can but expect to be scolded), but you most definitely can have a police call out if your walls are vibrating because your neighbor won't turn down the music at an unreasonable hour.
Strata could never, ever kick anyone out of their building. Denying someone access to their own property (renting or owner occupier) is a much, much worse offense (if not actually a criminal act). The most they can do is take people to court after jumping through hoops for months.
I sit on the board for my owners corp. It took 2+ years to take someone to court for not paying their body corp fees before the cost to the strata was actually worth the amount they would get back. The person who didn't pay their fees still had access to all the amenities, they just were not paying for the maintenance (the apartment was empty 90% of the time and they didn't believe they should have paid fees if they didn't use the common areas).
having sex that is so loud your neighbour can hear it.
I don't mind ( ͡º ◞ل͟◟ ͡º)
Agreed, smokers seem to not understand how unpleasant the smell actually is, probably because smoking irritates the nasal passages, often causing inflammation that affects a person’s sense of smell.
If I was in this scenario, I would buy a can of Surströmming, open it, and accidentally spill it on to the neighbours balcony below. Neither of you, or anyone within 500m radius would ever be able to go outside without gagging again but the victory would be worth it!
@c0balt: "(2) An owner or occupier of a lot must ensure that smoke caused by the smoking of tobacco or any other substance by the owner or occupier, or any invitee of the owner or occupier, on the lot does not penetrate to the common property or any other lot."
Any other lot would indicate the other person's apartment and, if the balcony is considered part of one person's apartment then the neighbours balcony would be considered part of theirs. The problem is that the smell is not only on the balcony it tends to go into the person's place as well, particularly if your doors are open. If we have our front door open people we can smell people smoking down the street. It is unreasonable to expect that people need to keep their balcony doors closed in summer to avoid other people's second hand smoke. If these people thought smoke was acceptable they would be smoking in their own apartment with the doors closed, obviously they think the smell is unacceptable in their own apartment so why should it be acceptable in other people's.
I would be going back to the Strata people with the information from the legislation and asking them to do something about it.
They did go to strata and strata said they can't enforce anything! They can write letters and jump through hoops for months only to fine that person if the person did not take reasonable steps to stop the smoke going into another lot, but they can't make them stop smoking or take any steps that infringe on the tenant or homeowner's rights by common law.
Going on to a balcony to smoke is a reasonable measure taken to ensure the smoke doesn't travel onto another lot. It would be completely unreasonable to expect a person in their own home to have to leave it to have a cigarette.
It's unreasonable to say that you don't want to close your windows or door to prevent smoke from traveling inside. What if there's construction noise outside, do you call the strata to get the noise to stop because you don't want to close your doors?
Never knew the smoking neighbours built the place or suggested the location of the vents.
@c0balt:
The whole point of legislation is to
A) modify existing legislation
B) react to common law problems.
The loose order of operations is legislation > common law
If the act says you can’t release 4 birds on a Sunday at 5pm it does not matter that the common law establishes that right. The legislation goes over the top of it.
In a practical sense, enforcement is a different matter. You might be right at law, but you have to decide whether it’s worth your time or money to pursue it. Often it’s easier to just walk away.
Strata conditions do not come before contract law between tenant and landlord.
The only case I can find of someone actually doing anything about it was a mother who sued her >landlord because her child was 'unwell' due to neighbor smoking.
What a dunce magistrate - no wonder there's only a single case to be found and nothing since.
If I understand your argument - you're making the point that contract law based on common law rights should override any conflicting strata conditions.
You've then made it clear that you couldn't find any common law right where courts have ruled that smoking on your balcony is a contractual right and overrides strata by-laws.
You've then cited a link which posits: "The wash up from these cases is clear: An owners corporation can make a by-law banning smoking throughout an entire strata building. Orders can be made against residents who smoke or allow their cigarette smoke to drift into other units. Landlords can be held liable to their tenants for second hand smoke exposure."
So you've basically cited arguments against the point you're trying to make ("anti-smoking strata by-laws shouldn't apply"), but haven't adduced anything in support of your argument? Am I missing something?
@c0balt: I think Strata has decided they don't wnat to rock the boat. I think if OP went with the actual strata regulations in hand they may well change their mind as the OP has done the research work fo them.
It doesn't need to be stated in law as smoking cigarettes is not illegal and you can do anything in your home that isn't illegal. Do you need a list of all the things you are allowed to do? Do you need to know you are allowed to cook food and have the rangehood on too?
That case was between landlord and tenant, not strata.
The magistrate found that the landlord didn't provide a safe environment for his tenant because he didn't seal the apartment properly for the smoke to permeate inside it. Did you notice how the smoker continued to smoke, throughout the whole time and probably still does to this day, blissfully unaware of the litigious nature of some people because their rights are protected.
It had nothing to do with strata in that case and strata are not police. They can't enforce anything. They only have civil options open to them and they cost more than what strata can fine the person if it's found they didn't take reasonable steps to stop their smoke being a nuisance (as the court case shows).
It's unreasonable to expect someone to have to leave their house to have a cigarette. If they take a reasonable step, but the offended party still doesn't want to close their balcony, then there's 0% strata or a magistrate would side with the offended party.
There's a lot of nanny-staters in this thread. But unfortunately for them we have a lot of laws that protect these things called freedom and cigarettes are not illegal, and having one in one's own home is a right protected by real law as the legal precedent has shown.
Why should one unit owner have to put up with someone else living next to them smoking? Smokers IMHO are the most selfish people in the world. More than happy to light up wherever they please to satisfy their filthy, disgusting habit without any consideration for those around them. Do you know WHY smokers go outside…because they don't want their own homes/units to smell of smoke yet they're more than happy to go outside and blow the smoke towards someone else's property. Like I said, disgusting, selfish people.
Saint Morphio i am sure you have a habit that disgusts others. People have to live with each other and the world does not revolve around your dislikes.
@HARSHREALITY: I'm sure we all have disgusting habits but we don't go into other people's properties and force them to be part of it. For example I may or may not like picking at my toenails but if I do I do it in my own home when no one else is around. I don't go onto your balcony and drop bits of toenails all over, do I?
If you have to smoke do it inside your own place with the doors and windows closed. You shouldn't make other people suffer from your weak will, you should be the sole person it affects.
As Quantumcat said any habit I may or may not have I do in the privacy of my own home and isn't something I therefore subject other people to. Smoking on the other hand, the minute you go outside it drifts over to other people's property and invades their space. That's neither fair nor healthy for the person who doesn't smoke.
Given how butthurt you got over my comment I'd say you're a smoker. So I suggest if you wanna smoke do it in the privacy of your own home and don't subject other people to your disgusting behaviour.
Wrong I am not a smoker. Is the balcony a common area or not? I'm sure many would say it is a private area.
Why doesnt the OP have a characol BBQ daily if they hate the smell so much?
@HARSHREALITY: It's a private area, as is my apartment - and so I'd rather that smokers kept their crap out of my private space. Unfortunately VIC, unlike some other states, hasn't progressed to the point where I can do anything about it so I just have to deal with it for now.
@HARSHREALITY: It depends on the strata, some are, some are not. Regardless, in QLD you can't do anything even in your 'private' space which impacts another owner's peaceful enjoyment of their lot. You can do anything legal you like as long as it doesn't negatively impact anyone else. What the law should be in general really.
I am in NSW and have had a similar issue. Strata issued a notice to the tenant under section 153(1)(a) of the Strata Schemes Management Act:
http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/cons…
Get into contact with strata again and make reference to this act.
Edit - looks like somebody else beat me to this. Well played.
Second hand smoke can have serious negative health effects. If the smoker wants to take the risk of lung cancer that is their own business, somebody randomly living near them shouldnt have to risk their health and possibly life just because of the randomness of the flat rental market.
@freemoneyhunter: I'm thinking you're a smoker. Everybody should be concerned about their own health. Because somebody else is overweight and eats McDonalds shouldnt mean that I just giveup on life and breath in other people's used smoke. If you smoke you should find a way to contain your smoke so that it doesnt affect anyone else. if the smoker was doing this the OP would not be smelling it and writing up this topic in the first place. Its not being a busybody when you are increasing your risk for lung cancer because of somebody else's weaknesses.
@freemoneyhunter: Your McDonalds example is just really dumb. The equivalent here would be if every time I ate a Big Mac, everyone around me would have to eat a Big Mac as well, even if they wish to eat healthily.
What a foolish comment.
change your WiFi SSID to "StopF**kingSmokingInYourBalcony" ?
That method always works 100%.
Where is your political comment that voting for the major parties leads to people's smoke getting into your property?
Haha, I love this!
I suggest "FreeWifi4PplSmokingInBalcony"
Also make this an open SSID and start putting hacking tools into the one who connected to it.
I'm going to be blunt here - You're not going to get everything your way. I suggest you either up your tolerance level and get used to certain things (and it's not just going to be cigarette smoke), or move out and live somewhere else where no one can bother you.
Reality is, living in an apartment where there's hundreds, or sometimes thousands, of people in close proximity, shared walls and shared living areas isn't going to be like living in your own standalone house. There's going to be everything from smells, noises, works, traffic, lights and everything else that may or may not suit you.
Tried closing your door when they smoke?
Guessing you are not up to date date with Strata law
Different laws for different states. I'm not in NSW.
My point above wasn't specifically to do with just smoking. It's about being able to recognise the fact that there's a lot of people living within close proximity and recognising that we don't all live the same lives, work the same hours or have the same opinion on what's "reasonable". Therefore, there's going to be things we may not agree with but may need to tolerate.
Today, the complaint is about someone smoking for a relatively small period of time during the morning and evening. Tomorrow's complaint is going to be the shift worker who comes home late and their closing door wakes you up or the people upstairs walking around late at night causing the floor to be noisy. The person allergic to plants might complain about not being able to go out to their balcony because the tenants upstairs have plants on their balcony and the wind blows the pollen around. Someone might have an issue with a cooking odour they don't like, but can smell from their balcony. The tenant who is afraid of dogs complains that his neighbour who owns a dog shouldn't be allowed to take his pet through the corridor or into the lift.
Where does the whinging stop? Things are never going to be convenient for everyone all the time. You can't please everyone! If there was a by-law drawn up for every issue/complaint, the apartments would be pretty sterile places - no cooking, no plants, no noise, no pets, nothing! The sooner everyone realises that, the better things will be.
By Laws are not drawn up on a whim, considerable thought, effort and debate goes into them. People have a right to have a smoke free apartment? Why should we have to put up with the effect of others bad choices. Your slippery slope argument is a bit out there.
@bobbified: You are making an argument that it is a slippery slope. I am disagreeing with you, the regs around smoking have been carefully considered and I would say are very much in line with community standards. People have a right not be be bothered by other peoples smoke in their own home.
It's about being able to recognise the fact that there's a lot of people living within close proximity and recognising that we don't all live the same lives, work the same hours or have the same opinion on what's "reasonable". Therefore, there's going to be things we may not agree with but may need to tolerate.
Agreed, but your assumption seems to be that people who do unreasonable things should by default be permitted to do so.
By the same logic I could go out on to my balcony and piss on to the smokers downstairs and they should just put up with that. By the arguments put out elsewhere on this discussion I'd be doing something on my own private space and not interfering with any public space, by your own argument that people can disagree over what's reasonable then they should just tolerate it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'd be tempted do do this, but it seems a little unfair to the people on the floors beneath them.
@bobbified: Lets stop with the things capable of killing your neighbours or at least causing significant respiratory problems. We can leave 'slightly annoying' for people who like slippery slopes.
Stop comparing, minor, temporary, avoidable things with potentially fatal, unavoidable ones.
Noise and pets are already covered. People are allowed to do both to a point that it doesn't stop another owner enjoying their property. Which means no you can't stop someone having a pet, but you can make them carry it through any common property and if it's overly noisy you the owner has to take action to stop the noise. This isn't a slippery slope at all.
I think it's reasonable to expect that your living quarters remain smoke-free if you are not a smoker… it's not just unpleasant, it's a significant health issue particularly for people that have respiratory illness or young children. Not the same as cooking odours..
Hang on, I don't understand why it's the OP's fault here. Why doesn't the smoker up their tolerance level and get used to the fact that other people don't like smoke and therefore doesn't smoke outside?
The reason why we need these laws are so that these disputes can be resolved consistently. Both sides have a "right" here, does the right to clean air trump the right to smoke or vice versa?
Clearly there is some nuance here and it's not a black and white issue. There's somewhere where we draw the line and say it's not a acceptable past this point.
Both sides have a "right" here, does the right to clean air trump the right to smoke or vice versa?
Yes, both sides have "rights". We're not talking about a constant stream of smoke burning 24/7 from the balcony below and blowing into OP's apartment all day long. We're talking about five minutes here and there in the morning and evening. Any smoke that flows from below would be heavily diluted by air by the time it gets up to the balcony above. I get it - cigarettes do have a distinct smell and some people don't like it. But some do.
Had it been a case of OP's neighbour chain smoking right throughout the day, then yes, I'd agree that something should be done to try stop them since it could be a constant problem for the neighbours. What's reasonable and what's not reasonable isn't something that can be written in law/by-law - and hence the reason it's judged on a case-by-case basis.
As you can probably tell, I'm a smoker - I do realise that some others don't like the smell of smoke and I actively try to avoid other people when I smoke on the street by hiding in corners or walking away from everyone. Still, I get people walk up and stand next to me and start whinging about my smoke or pretending to cough, expecting me to move somewhere else. I think I've been reasonable in trying to move away from other people so I have had no qualms in telling those people to get f'd.
I dont think it's illegal for them to smoke in their balcony. Just look this up, if that is the case you might just have to get over it.
I saw a guy being escorted by police in handcuffs from his apartment, they were questioning him where he bought the cigarettes he was smoking, he said from 7-11. Police are still investigating…..
huh?
The police wouldn't care, but the body corporate can issue a breach notice and take the matter to mediation / issue fines if it doesn't stop.
Very hard to prove, install a camera looking into his balcony?
There's not an incredible burden of proof in strata matters, they're not criminal. You can issue a breach notice without any proof what-so-ever.
Directly under you?
Buy a powerful amp. Place huge speakers face down on the floor.
Every time he smokes then play some death/speed metal really loud.
Fight fire with fire (smoke with metal)
Operant conditioning.
Don't live in an apartment….
But seriously not much you can do. You can try talking to them. If it doesn't help, and you don't mind moving out you can start a war. Start thumping around in your floor when they're home, playing loud music, letting water drip from your balcony onto theirs, etc. If they ramp up the war then make plans to move. If they stop smoking outside then you win and can stop the war. Neighbours are the main reason I would never buy an apartment to live in.