Sony Bravia 60" KD60X6700E 4K Ultra HD TV $945.25 (or $895.50 with MADE4YOU) @ The Good Guys eBay » All Comments

  • +15

    $945.25 C&C on their eBay store with the code PULL5. If you're targeted for the code MADE4YOU, then you can get it for $895.50.

    • +1

      Thanks, I was just checking that out just as you commented! Will amend post.

  • +3

    That is a bloody good deal.

    Makes the JVC and Kogan I was looking at last night pale in comparison.

    • +2

      Of course liking at these prices it d doesn't make sense to buy second grade brands just stay away from Kogan please

      • I know right it's ludicrous.. wait does this have HDR?

        If you're watching a compatible 4K HDR movie or show, or playing a 4K HDR game

        Never mind I found my own answer

        • Yes it has HDR and fully supported on PS4 Pro.

        • @Hybroid: thanks a bunch this I think is the one I need to aim for now

  • +4

    I'd say this will be the final stock from GG before new models come out so jump on it now !!!

  • +1

    Thank Poster, I bought one.

  • Damm I already got my hi sense 55N7 from TgG already lol

    • +7

      The n7 is miles better

      • +3

        Is this true?

        • N7's are very good.

        • +2

          Better for HD content. Sony's generally have better processing on SD and sound. Although this is a cheaper model.

    • +4

      I'm waiting for 55N7 deal but nothing this month. Want a very good price as I already have a 65N7 :)

  • +1

    How.is the warranty with Sony? I've read before that they aren't the easiest to deal with?

    • From my time at JB they were pretty good, if you do have a problem complain to the goodguys.

  • +1

    I bought 55" inch Sony just two days ago. I don't believe it's been dispatched. I should probably cancel that order. I paid 876 for the same TV less 5".

    • +10

      Yep. I now have two televisions on the way. Hopefully this works out.

      • +15

        True ozbargainer. Buy first, figure it out later.

        • He's an Ozbargain gold member

      • I take it you're not married?

    • +1

      Buy first and take the other one back for refund. A bigger tv not necessary better. Depends on the room size.

      • This is a very good point.

        Yes, Sony offered a three day full refund. I've emailed them saying I'm changed my mind. Maybe they won't ship it.

        I actually haven't done the measurements. I'm a FIFO worker. Hopefully the 60" doesn't look ridiculous in my 1x1 back home.

  • Cashback is 2.31% on tvs

    • +1

      Thanks will amend!

  • -10

    Is this as good as oled or uled TV?

  • +1

    No ARC Feature?

  • Genuinely interested in how this compares to the 65N7.

    Seems like such a good price for a better brand, but maybe older?

    • +21

      Heres my weekly review when people post 60X6700E deals as apparently they cant use google…

      The Hisense has the better panel for colour
      Better motion processing 100hz vs 50 on the Sony
      Better HDR rating on the N7
      Better App support on the Hisense as that Sony doesnt run Android
      You're basically comparing a entry level to almost top of the range Hisense.
      Sony 1YR warranty + ACL rights
      Hisense 3YR in home warrranty

      • +2

        This deal is hard to resist but I'm going to sit tight waiting for a deal on the 55N7. I'm not sure if it's worth buying just for the brand thinking of resale value.

        • +1

          On the flipside, mine delivered yesterday and hooked it up to PS4 Pro with God of War 4K HDR and it's absolutely gorgeous. Yes technically those specs are higher but you are unlikely to notice them much. This is a fantastic deal and well worth it.

        • @Hybroid:

          It says no Android. Do I need Google Chromecast (for example) if I want to stream youtube? or can I stream youtube from my android phone directly to the TV?

        • @vjoz: The TV has Youtube and Netflix apps built in so you don't need anything else. Connect to wifi, press the Youtube button on remote and enjoy.

        • @Hybroid:

          Awesome, you convinced me to buy this without waiting for 55N7 eventhough I know 55N7 is superior!

        • +1

          @Hybroid: Bought!

      • +5

        The Hisense does have 100HZ but it’s not great IMO, I think tends to introduce artefacts but it does have adjustments for judder and blur, which is good (whether or not that does much with the Hisense, I’m not sure).

        I saw the 60” N7 at JB HiFi and honestly FWIW I actually felt that the motion compensation was pretty good; they were playing cars at the time, I think #2, and with a fair amount of highly consistent colour gradient panning and scrolling I reckon that the panel held up well. Yes, there was tearing and some judder still obvious but as compared to the Sony 9000e which was a better unit it definitely held its own; I.E; I wouldn’t have paid more for the Sony.

        Nobody has perfected the technology yet, it’s really still fairly obviously artificial on an LCD TV but some companies do a better job than Hisense I think.

        That being said, given the choice between the Hisense and the Sony I’d definitely choose the Hisense, as personally I think Sony’s after sales support is pretty ordinary and I’m not convinced that their products are better quality than another major up and coming player like Hisense (I.E; the brand name means diddly). The vast majority of consumers IMO would be more than satisfied with the performance of the N7 and would be able to put the difference in price towards something like a 4K player and movies.

        Just my thoughts.

    • I have a Hisense, came with 1 green pixel after a week and panel defect. Colours good. Lots of settings. But no new firmware.

      • 1 green pixel - what does that mean please?

        • +1

          It literally means 1 green pixel, a pixel that's constantly green and would affect viewing experience.

        • @clse945111:

          That's bad!

        • Its like stuck/dead dot there. You can see green dot when theres a black colour background.
          Rather annoying.

        • @keyboardandco:

          can't you get that replaced under warranty?

      • I’d definitely approach retailer about this as often they’ve got a DOA policy of around 7-14 days or similar; (it’s a BS stance but I’m erring on the side of practicality), and they will hopefully play ball.

        If not, sometimes a single colour pixel is stuck and that basically means that it’s tried to twist and it’s gotten stuck in place, hence the moniker, and sometimes very, very lightly tapping the screen with the rubberised tip of a pencil topper may free it, but this is an absolute last resort IMO. If you can chase the retailer; there’s every chance the other panel in the next box wouldn’t have this problem, you know.

        I hope you can get something sorted to your satisfaction.

        • +1

          DOA warranty for Hisense is 2 days. I tried to call Hisense support after 6 days from purchase they said after 2 days is repair warranty.

        • @wtfnodeal: Urgh. That's ridiculous. It might be worth trying the retailer, if not then it might be worth trying to unstick the pixel, but I'd suggest having a look at some youtube clips first to get an idea of the process.

        • @Jawanzar: mine has flickering problem. Yeah Hisense told me to bring the TV back to store to try my luck for DOA warranty but for their in home warranty is repair after 2 days.

        • @wtfnodeal: I really hope you can get it sorted.

        • +1

          @Jawanzar: I will just claim the repair warranty claim on its last month before the 3 years warranty expires. Couldn't be bothered with the flickering problem unless it dies before that. But this definitely be the first and last Hisense TV in my entire life.

        • @wtfnodeal:

          Flickering problem - more details please? You mean screen is flickering or the hisense logo at the bottom (in the panel) flickers a few times when you switch it ON?

        • @vjoz: the screen flashes every once in a while when I watch movies etc. In a complete dark scene you will think what is going on? A lightning? Tried all sort of ways such as changing input source, tv program, different power point etc as suggested by Hisense support hotline but the screen still flashes no matter what. On lucky days it flashes only once in a 2 hours movie.

        • @wtfnodeal:

          That's bad, they should replace the unit under warranty for you.

  • How does this compare to the 8500c 55inch? Seems like a cheap upgrade if i can sell my old one.

    • +2

      8500C 100HZ smart Android, better blacks
      6700E 50HZ non android (very crap smart OS) but with HDR capabilities

      I would stick with the 8500C

      • Hz difference meaning little if you, like most, do not use smooth motion crap. What matters a lot more is the chipset, decoder, upscaling, panel, firmware etc. That's not to say the 6700E is better or worse… i have NFI. But never make a TV purchase for TV viwing based on a marketing Hz label unless you're one of the few who use that smooth motion crap, or perhaps for gaming.

      • ok thanks, i'll give this one a miss :)

  • +4

    We have 4 TVs, just bought another, wait until she finds out

    • +29

      She may just become Jamesx

      Beware your username!

    • +5

      If she finds out, you'll be the one on TV lol

  • -8

    Only 3 hdmi inputs. Instant fail.

    • +6

      You only need one if you have basically any AVR.

    • +1

      not sure why you're being downvoted. not everyone likes to switch inputs with their receiver. I have a vintage receiver and switch everything via my TV so having a larger number of HDMI inputs is very very useful for me… But haters gon' hate.

  • Great deal!

  • Click and Collect isn't showing as an option???

    • On the final page of ordering won't select a store, if you do it from the main page in Ebay you get operation timed out.

  • Thanks OP! Purchased for the new, larger living room! Will be a treat :)

  • Nice deal

  • Lucky I choose local pick up and haven't picked it up.

  • crazy price

    • +7

      Agree, I even upvoted.

      • +5

        Thanks for letting us know.

  • I recently bought a PS4 Pro and currently running it on a Samsung non 4K 55 inch tv. Do you think it is a no-brainer to buy this tv and try to sell my current one (on Gumtree etc)?

    Also in terms of integration with Google Home, does this provide native support for voice commands on Netflix etc or do I need a Chromecast to run it?

    • if this is like my sony 49, it has a mic in the remote and inbuilt chromecast

      • This model does NOT have mic remote and chromecast built in. It is however fantastic PS4 Pro 4k HDR gaming.

        • ok thanks. easily solved with a chromecast or media pc

    • No voice command on this tv.

      • voice control on mine is kinda shit anyway thanks

    • +1

      Personally yes no-brainer if you want to play 4K HDR games and have 20% extra screen size. God of War and Horizon Zero Dawn look fantastic on it.

      It however lacks in the smart category so while has Netflix/Youtube and basic apps, no mic, no chromecast etc. Not a problem if you have Apple TV/Fetch/Chromecast unit anyway.

      • Thank you for the replies. Getting hard convincing the wifey that we need a new tv :)

        Our current one for reference: http://www.samsung.com/au/consumer/tv-audio-video/television…

      • It however lacks in the smart category so while has Netflix/Youtube and basic apps

        for the uninitated what does this mean?

        as in you cant download the app and use netflix on it?

        we dont have netflix but youtube would be great

        • It DOES have both Youtube and Netflix built-in and dedicated buttons on the remote. You don't need anything else.

          Edit: Also, strongly suggest you try the 1 month free Netflix trial. Streaming unlimited movies and tv shows for a tenner a month is pretty good value.

        • @Hybroid:
          yep definitely something we are consdiering

  • wtf how is this possible

  • +3

    Picked this up from the Harvey Norman warehouse sale last weekend in Springvale for $948 and 48 mth ext warranty for another $135. Upgraded from a Samsung 55" 4k (No HDR) TV from 2014. Pretty happy with this choice so far. TV speakers not that great so best paired with your usual AV system / soundbar. I found that disabling ClearAudio+ and tweaking the EQ sounded less "tinny".

    Otherwise I've been playing Uncharted TLL and GoW with HDR enabled now and wow , looks great!

    I didn't find indepth reviews on this model but have learnt it's the X690E in the US, review : https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x690e

  • for the tehcnically hopeless,
    for someone who doesnt play games or blue ray ,

    just downloaded movies, and streamed movies/shows,

    will we notice a difference between this and a different brand???

    we went to jbhifi and had a look, the $3k+ tvs (55Inchplus) and they looked great and thin but they all had factory manufacturer demo videos on which made it look a million dollars,

    however the $1.5k and below didnt look that great but were just playing kids movies,

    how do we tell the difference , and will we notice the differentce?

    • if you're not looking for specific features, buy this before it goes out of stock

      • we dont know what half the abbreviations will mean for us,
        but a friend bought a TCL 50-60inch one , and he said it wasnt that good, although he only watches youtube videos.

        just trying to comapre, and its confusing us, weve seen some 65" go as low as $800, some of the samsung and sonys are $1500, yet some with high specs are $3kplus

        • this will look great. i have a 50 inch sony and the only thing that i dont like about it is the sound - lows are too quiet and loud sounds are fkn loud.

    • +4

      I think this is a fantastic TV for the money. It's made in Mexico, not China if that matters to you. This unit isn't thin so will stick out if you wall mount but doesn't matter if you use the stand it comes with. The bezels are quite thin but not edge screen like high end models.

      It's lacking some smart features which you would expect for the price and can be fixed with an Apple TV/Fetch/Chromecast box if you want. It does have Youtube and Netflix built in with dedicated remote buttons and works great.

      The screen quality is fantastic for the money and there's plenty of options to tweak it to how you like and suit the room you're in (bright/dull rooms need different settings).

      Will you see a big difference between this and $3k+ TVs for streaming content? Probably not in my opinion, a lot of the extra features like higher hz etc dont mean much to the average person nor most uses. Frankly, this is a brilliant deal for a very good TV set.

      • sony used to be the rolls royce of tvs, ive read the gap is very small now,
        similar pricing exists for samsung, which would be better?

        we are a little biased and think anythign sony must be great

        p.s where its made doesnt bother us, wed be more worried about warranty, we may get exteneded warranty via our credit card, depending on how we purhcase it

        • +1

          Sony was indeed the undisputed leader in TV technology but that gap has narrowed now and other brands have caught up or can exceed specs for cheaper. This is true of all consumer products including mobile phones.

          This particular model is considered an entry to mid-range model and that is reflected in the price. You get what you pay for. I have always been a Sony brand fan but I think you might struggle to find another 60" at this price point though. Even the Hisense chinese is more expensive.

        • @Hybroid:

          yeah 60" for $950 sony seems great value,
          we might buy it

        • @Hybroid: xiaomi are cheap as if you can get one

  • -1

    Will JB Hi-Fi price match this?

  • Decided to buy this due to the price drop and screen size even though I had been interested in either a Hisense 55N7 or a cheap 55". I was not eligible for the MADE4YOU voucher. Upgrading from a Toshiba 32".

    One year warranty, fingers crossed these have good quality control and will last a while (I hardly watch any TV/movies so I would hope so).

  • wondering, whats the difference between the two to justify higher price for smaller screen,
    specs look the same

    https://www.thegoodguys.com.au/sony-55-inches139cm-uhd-led-l…

    vs

    https://www.thegoodguys.com.au/sony-60-inches152cm-uhd-led-l…

    • +1

      I’ve always maintained that folks should seek independent reviews between different models to really get an idea of whether they’re worth it. I know that’s not immediately helpful, but often it can lead to a better understanding of technology anyway and thus allows you to be a more informed consumer. That being said, if it were me and take this with a grain of salt as IMO you should anybody’s opinion on a forum, I’d choose the 60” model as I imagine they’re very similar in performance and the difference in screen size would be noticeable for your money.

      If you’re looking for reviews I often find AVForums, HDTV test, FlatpanelsHD and ratings and CNET to be quite comprehensive. Just be aware that manufacturers often have different models names for different regions (annoyingly).

      I hope that helps. Not trying to put you down for seeking advice, I think it’s great, I just think sometimes getting the information yourself gives you a sense of knowledge and empowerment as a consumer, rather than a friend or forum just saying get this model.

      • +1

        That's fair enough
        But I'm a cynical type of guy.

        I hate buzz words and sales pitch.
        I always ask myself if it's necessary or worth it or has a point.

        Like when the Curved TV's came out. They look fantastic but most are saying the scenes are the same and it's harder to see on an angle.

        That bring said. I did look at a few Chinese brand 65" that were cheap but was comparing and th screen looked worse but since different videos were being broad cast. Very hard to compare side by side.
        Don't really. Want to go cheap and then regret it.

  • +1

    Just ordered with delivery, the pull5 voucher made the devlivery essentially $0.39. Got a call from the local Good Guys branch less than 30mins later and they confirmed they are dropping it off tomorrow. Great service, wish I had a bigger car though, could have saved that ~$50 delivery fee.

    • Wow that's super quick! Didn't know they do this on Saturdays - oh of course they're working on weekends. I just got a confirmation email of my order from Good Guys.

  • Same as last deal from Good Guys, error on checkout when selecting pickup:
    Something went wrong. Please try to check out again. 70049 70084

  • Sorry another car question - will this fit in a SUV? Like old honda CRV - planning to rent a car for pick up in Alexandria Sydney

    • +3

      With the rear seats down pretty certain it easily will.

      DIMENSION OF PACKAGE CARTON (W X H X D)

      Approx. 1590 x 881 x 185 mm

      • Thanks mate 👍

  • Still wondering whether I replace existing Samsung UA55MU6100 to this. My primary use of TV has been gaming and watching sport channels. Some of my friends told Samsung's HDR is less effective than Sony's but built-in Android is not with Sony.

  • -1

    Thanks OP!

  • Does anyone know if Plex and Foxtel Play will work on this model since it's not Android enabled? I can't find much elsewhere as I think this model number is unique to Australia.

  • +1

    Bought one thanks OP! Pulled the trigger at 1pm. Was available for pick up 30min later from GG Artarmon. Just picked up, I have a 2010 Lexus RX and it easily fitted in the back with seats down.

  • Virtually none available in Vic.
    Is there a way to pay for click and collect and wlto wait without paying delivery

    • I placed my order around 12, got a call an hour ago said that there is more in stock that I need to wait for another 1,2 weeks.

      • How did you order click and collect if no stock?

        • There should be delay when update between actual stock and online stock.

      • Same. Pretty lame. Was getting excited to pick it up tomorrow.

        Anyone know whether you could take this deal to JB Hi Fi for a price match??

      • trying to decide whether just to pay the $50 delivery fee
        or wait until pick up become avaible

        • ok, just ordered mine,
          looking forward to it!!! :)

  • anyone know what is motion ratio of this tv?

  • +1

    Hey guys, first time poster here and seriously thinking of picking this up right now. But one thing that is driving me insane is the whole 50hz vs 60hz issue (I don't really care about it being much higher than that) Will this TV be an issue when playing 60fps games, I've looked it up on the internet, and the information is really mixed. Some say that a 60 fps game will start tearing on a 50hz panel, but other reports suggest that there is no such thing as a 50hz-only panel and that the panel will switch to 50hz or 60hz depending on the input signal as some countries (AUS, SA and UK) have 50hz broadcasting and others have 60hz (US) any info and experience with 60fps games on 50hz tv would be appreciated.

    I've read on other posts here that this is the same as Sony X690e reviewed here https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x690e but if you read the review, it says that this is 60hz panel not 50hz advertised here on the landing page.

    • +5

      There is no 50hz vs 60hz issue as that's to do with NTSC vs PAL broadcasting as you stated.

      God of War is playing at 4K HDR 60 FPS perfectly on it right now.

      • +1

        Thanks so much for the info, happy to know that it works fine. I'm ordering now.

  • Would Harvey Norman price match?

  • +5

    Didn't do much research but just got one coz this has 200+ votes.
    Trust!

    • +1

      You're like me, mate :)

  • Targeted how does it work? Anything that says targeted I do not receive from eBay or from any other provider. Do I have to do something specific?

  • I was trying to organise a way to transport the TV from Costco and gave up.

    Found this deal while on the can, cheaper and delivered.

    Thanks for sharing!

  • Thanks OP and all the TV experts.
    Just bought one for delivery. Looking forward to it.

    • Hi, can you tell which &what code did u entered to get discount..?

      • MADE4YOU didn't work for me (I even tried making a new account) but PULL5 worked for me on a new account (neither worked on an old account for me though)

  • oh no,,,!! Code EXPIRED.. Is it working for anyone??

  • +1

    Bought one with PULL5. Having fun with it for more than one hour now. Fitted in a old CRV

    • Ended up with a couple of Xbox one games. Nothing to worry, Great TV! the integrated os is ok, tried YouTube and Netflix

  • Is it sold out??

    • Can someone please confirm?

      • +1

        I get the message that it sold out when confirming payment.

  • +1

    Here's the RTINGS review for this television (n.b. It's called the X690e in the US):
    https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x690e

  • Sold out

    This item isn't available in the requested quantity. It may have been purchased already, or the listing has expired.
    Error codes: 70203 70084

  • Sold out but if quick save screenshot of item and price after discount shops will price match

    • I tried JB HiFI @ chadstone. They said they can not do it as this will be too much to price match.

  • I showed harveynorman on line chat said show price instore no problems as he said not below cost

    • +2

      he said not below cost

      That means there's more room to haggle with them.

      Challenge accepted.

  • -2

    Yes I never buy anything from jb hn or tgg unless I pay min 40-50% off there ticked price

  • HI - picked up TV today just doing installation and during digital autotune two green vertical lines appeared in middle of screen - lost all confidence in this TV - lets hope I have no problems returning to TGG tomorrow.

    • Whilst the manufacturer’s warranty might be sound, the hassle and stress of having to take it back, explain it hoping they would swap it out etc… that’s the worst experience ever. Let’s hope they don’t find any excuse under the sun to avoid swapping it out.

    • I got a single blue vertical line after using the TV for a few days. Not happy!

  • Pull 5 works but Made4You doesn't.
    Error:Looks like that's the wrong code. Please double-check and try again.
    For a $50 saving, is it really. Worth it? I'm looking for a printer, maybe I should wait for a good printer deal. It's been awhile.

  • It says zero stock available on eBay. But yet you can still order it.

    Weird
    Thnak God I already got my order in

  • was about to pounce on this to replace a 47w800a i got 2 years ago from their annual sony click frenzy sale which has served me really well, but then realise it doesn't run android tv - no deal. So many third party apps that run on android that has saved me tons of money from not having to subscribe to netflix etc.

  • Damn I missed out.. this seems like a worthy upgrade or choice over a 60" JVC 4k non HDR from eBay for about $549 AUD no delivery.

    Ah well shucks better luck next time. Unless anybody having second thoughts I'll even pay extra maybe for it.

    Anybody wanna make some money off of a fellow Ozbargainer :) I'm in Sydney (blue mountains) haha lol.

    • This TV has been on clearance sale for about 2 weeks. First official Sony store reduced it to $1099 delivered with EBGames code then JBHifi price-matched it and now Good Guys did it even cheaper. It's probably going to be available again tomorrow or in a couple days again.

      https://store.sony.com.au/tvhometheatre-tv-4khdrtv/KD60X6700…

      $1,298 currently from them if desperate but pretty sure you can get it for less soon.

      • +2

        Here is to hoping.. tbh I don't think I should buy this but a small part of me wants it kinda and sometimes thinks it's a good idea especially for my old roommate who only has a tiny laptop.. mostly just thinking of him but then again the bed is more comfortable than the laptop so I'm not sure.. just seems bad that he still works so hard at 70+ and doesn't have a decent tv or media consumption device but then again he might be just like me and not need one and just a tablet which he actually asked me for so I might just get him that. But then the tv does get stuck in the back of my mind. As for me I have more than enough to cover myself entertainment wise for eternity.. a tablet and small Windows 2 in 1 tablet laptop covers all my surroundings and honestly really I would only buy a tv for myself if I felt pressured to or to keep up with the Jones's.. per se but here we are.. originally I wanted to get a tv to try some strategy games and maybe make my own one but I think I don't have the time and energy for that now as responsibilities and time pass on and pile on over.. who knows I don't know. Tis a funny world we live in I suppose..

        • +3

          The only thing I took from this comment was that you used to share a room with someone who is now in their 70's.

        • +1

          @WatchNerd: I have no idea what am I doing today. I was roleplaying master chief on PUBG mobile earlier then looking for watch evaluations then tv shopping then tell my life story on discord to a new friend I met and now this.. all while we have some visitors at our place and it looks like a nice little gathering is about to begin..

          Housemate not roommate sorry typo. Nah he just has a laptop to use in his downtime so sometimes I think he might appreciate a small tv but then again he doesn't have many things and values the important things in life like socializing and cooking and generally good positive stuff.. unlike me who is right now in my life the total opposite kinda.. kinda I mean I try.. just stuck in a hole one day I'll get out hehehe

  • hmm got an email confirming delivery but tyet I called the shop up and they said no stock, going to be a minimum week before it comes..

    was hoping theyd offer me a better model…. but they didnt

    • I must have done something wrong in past life.

      Got a call today. At the earliest another week before they get stock

  • Important to know that Sony will do absolutely (profanity) all if you threaten ACL except offer you a 40% discount on a TV.

  • Bought this deal. TV delivered last week. And tonight when I turn it on. It has a single pixel vertical blue line down the entire tv.
    God damn it.

  • Anyoje still waiting for theirs?

    Keep on calling but keep getting the run around.
    If other people get the same as me they're are going to get a lot of negative ebay feedbacks

    • they got back to me in about 2hrs. organised and delivered without any issues

      • Lucky boy.
        Oh well. Looks like we will. Have to keep on waiting.

        I called and they said theyd call back.. No call back.

        I called a few days later and asked if they could waive shipping. They said the manager would call back.

        Guess what. No call back

        Seems to be the norm of Australia these days