Ban Strawman RRP Discount Comparison in Deals

serrin on 28/04/2018 - 16:05
Last edited 28/04/2018 - 16:06

I'm sick of sites advertising their deals as 40% off RRP when they never sold it at RRP in the first place and other sites are selling the items in question at a similar price.

I thought Ozbargain was a community website founded for people to share their deals but more and more merchants are seeing it as a way to hawk non-bargains and generate traffic. While I'm all for estabilishing good relationships with reps, this site doesn't and shouldn't exist as a way for merchants to post ads for free. If you're going to post on OzBargain, it better be a good bargain and as a merchant, I think the barrier to entry should be even higher than for the general public, lest we get flooded in random spam.

Anyway, should we ban any mention of RRP and instead hold merchants accountable to their standard prices rather than to Strawman RRP?

Poll Options

  • 20
    Ban RRP on all Deals
  • 1
    Ban RRP for merchants only
  • 18
    Keep things as they are
Site Discussion

Comments

  • oscargamer on 28/04/2018 - 16:12
    +9

    Ban Strawman - is that the same as Ben Sherman?

  • Quantumcat on 28/04/2018 - 16:37
    +10

    If the deal is bad it will get negs and/or comments explaining such. No need to change rules.

  • Diji1 on 28/04/2018 - 19:04
    +2

    I have bought this up before but no one seemed too interested.

    The problem is the RRP is used by retailers to leverage something known as the anchoring effect which causes an unconscious change in the perception of value of the user. The part that causes it is the higher number (compared to the price) ie. you could just have the number and it would occur.

    This effect happens whether you know about it or not. The only defense is being very familiar with prices, like using them daily, and no one has the time to do this with everything.

    So it seems kinda counterproductive to be listing RRPs. It is literally a device that causes the user to see the deal more favourably when they would not have if the RRP wasn't there.

  • spackbace on 28/04/2018 - 19:32
    -1

    The only person quoting RRP in that post is you… Store rep just says 'was' and there's no evidence to deny that was the price…

    • serrin on 28/04/2018 - 21:10
      +1

      Did you not read the OP?

      For a limited time get up to 40% (or more!) off from RRP

      • spackbace on 28/04/2018 - 21:33

        sigh 1 mention

        You still haven't disproved the 'was' prices.

      • spackbace on 28/04/2018 - 22:30
        +3

        Ok just neg vote on my comments but don't reply, great discussion!

  • Blitzfx on 28/04/2018 - 22:36

    I know sometimes Banggood have really good deals on random stuff but I know for a fact that their previous listed price was a complete lie because I had it in my basket for a while.

    I think it should be everyone's responsibility to look up the historical pricing and compare it to what other people are selling it for at that point in time. I mean, if you really cared, you'd know the price like you do with this particular merchant and neg accordingly.

    • spackbace on 28/04/2018 - 22:58
      +2

      I think it should be everyone's responsibility to look up the historical pricing and compare it to what other people are selling it for at that point in time.

      Isn't that just the point of being a savvy shopper though? I mean, it's the reason we consult price hipster and google cache so much

    • Quantumcat on 29/04/2018 - 00:26

      Doesn't need to be everyone's responsibility, someone will be the hero and look it up because they're fishing for another Popular Comment badge.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/04/2018 - 09:18

    Good deals on this website has always been based on final sale price often including cost of delivery.

    RRPs have no power here.

  • serrin on 01/05/2018 - 18:54

    One of the simplier ways to solve this issue is to allow negs on deals for reps who mis-represent RRP as the usual price when they themselves have never sold the item for that price, or haven't sold it at RRP for several months. If this site gets filled with random posts by store reps trying to hock crap it's going to be hard to dig through the genuine deals. I am all for reps discounting products, however niche they are, and sharing on the site, but if they're just tyring to offload crap that's been "40-50% off RRP" for the last 24 months and just heard how awesome OzB is to offload crap then no, they should go jump into a lake.

    • Moderatorneil on 01/05/2018 - 20:31

      If this site gets filled with random posts by store reps trying to hock crap it's going to be hard to dig through the genuine deals.

      Rep posts fall under posting limits. If they continue to post poorly received deals, they won't be able to post anymore.

      As for the RRP, I agree & disagree. In many cases, RRP is useless because most stores never sell for RRP. However, products such as Apple (and speakers listed in the OP) always sell for RRP normally and discounts are off the RRP.

      But there are many cases where RRP is not helpful. Like a Google Home Mini is selling for $79 on Google. There are many retailers selling the product and the beatable price level is about $53.

      So it depends on what the product is. Just remember what you think may not be a deal, may be a deal for others. You can adjust your settings to block posts from reps if you desire.

  • [Deactivated] on 06/05/2018 - 22:58
    -5

    Hi,

    Some of you may be interested in checking out my comments in this @PJC post, and this brief comment.

    If you wish to comment you should probably do it here, as that seems to be the Mods preference and I think I’ve pretty much covered everything anyway.

    Cheers,

    Phantom
    Skull Cave

    • xev on 07/05/2018 - 01:33
      +3

      After reading a lot of your comments it seems you have a personal issue with PJC.

      You sure have thrown a lot of accusations his way. And for some reason you have now brought him up in a thread related to merchants, which PJC is not.

      He certainly isn't a merchant that is going to be banned for sockpuppeting

      He has no control or say over RRP, he has no pecuniary interest, he makes nothing from any post he makes.

      He is just a long time respected member of OzBargain, with a personal interest in watches.

      He spends days creating and researching listings for us, trying to find the cheapest global prices in selected brands.

      His listings are so popular one achieved Deal of the Month, votes given both for interest in the product and in appreciation for the hard work put in to creating the listing.

      He follows all guidelines and requests from the mods.

      So, I have a question for you, TheGhostWhoWalks.

      Can you find cheaper prices?

      • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2018 - 22:46
        -1

        Instead of attacking the man, why don't you attack my arguments?

        I've a few questions for you personally:

        1. Why do you say he uses RRP? The "RRP" he uses is simply the price used on the bodying.com.au website, which is most likely higher than any RRP.

        2. Why doesn't he just use the usual price advertised by Amazon instead of an "RRP", or just compare to Camel like @WatchNerd and others do?

        3. Are you sure @PJC does't earn from any affiliate link? I don't know, that's why i'm asking. I know OzBargain would most of the time, at least with Amazon. Whether he is or not makes little difference to me. The posts are either misleading, or they’re not.

        If you ignore these questions, you're ignoring the issues.

        • sky blu on 08/05/2018 - 07:23
          +1

          Nobody ignores any question, only questions that are irrelevant.

          Nobody needs to attack "the man", don't flatter yourself. Even the mods ignore your comments - they are not even arguments, and clearly not issues that need moderating.

          If you have a problem with certain members on Ozbargain, submit a forum post to publicly denounce them. This community is pretty fair IMHO. The civil thing to do is to refrain from posting inflammatory comments, especially when unrelated to the topic of the main thread. This thread is about discounts off RRP from merchants.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2018 - 13:07
          -2

          @sky blu:

          My questions are perfectly relevant, and not directed at you on this occasion.

          It is very telling that @xev chooses not to answer.

          You and your virtual buddies can spend all day seeking to misrepresent my questions as a personal attack, but i think that says more about you than it says about me. You do understand these are virtual friends? Perhaps the Stockholm Syndrome has kicked in.

          The response i'm getting is a bit like book-burning. Don't deal with the issue, seek to mask the message, and organise to manipulate the mechanisms within OzBargain through your back-channel as you attempt to manipulate other members. Shows a pretty comprehensive contempt for all users of the site i'd have thought.

          Again, nice try, but no banana.

          Phantom

        • Clear on 08/05/2018 - 14:13
          +2

          @TheGhostWhoWalks:

          In regards to RRP I think it's appropriate for him to show it in his watch deal as that's a massive list and there simply wouldn't be enough room in the title to list all the prices. RRP summarises the savings well.

          Are you sure @PJC does't earn from any affiliate link? I don't know, that's why i'm asking. I know OzBargain would most of the time, at least with Amazon. Whether he is or not makes little difference to me. The posts are either misleading, or they’re not.

          Affiliate links are not possible. OzBargain detects and removes affiliate links if you try to post them in a deal or a comment. Infact when posting a deal the url will remove any information after .html? automatically which is often where an affiliate code sits. URL shorteners like goo.gl are also banned so it won't even let you submit them.

          OzBargain themselves use affiliate links for guests (or members not signed in) on deals, but even then clicking through them is optional and a small grey and black Affiliate banner is present on the thumbnail. Look at OzBargain through incognito and you'll see what I mean as well as being a new member.

          Another YSK is that you won't get a good response from the greater community if you throw accusations against established members who frequently contribute deals to the community. If we look at your post history there is very little. Gives you very little credibility. In fact it can make you look like a competitor with a motive or ghost account.

        • xev on 08/05/2018 - 14:45

          @TheGhostWhoWalks:

          You never answered my question,

          Can you find cheaper prices?

        • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2018 - 14:49
          -1

          @Clear:

          Thanks for your message.

          I don't think @PJC is using RRP's - that's one of my main points. I also don't see RRP's as a reasonable base, especially for anything to do with watches. In the case of Amazon deals there’s also an obvious alternative as posts by @WatchNerd demonstrates. You can list 100 watches without there being a single bargain evident with the current format.

          Thanks for the info on affiliate links.

          I don't accept that I’ve been 'throwing accusations' around. I think quite the opposite has been happening. I've been pretty precise as to why I think there's an entitled cohort here manipulating engagement with posts. While I haven't said so yet, there's no shortage of cyber-bullying going on as well. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

          I'm not a retailer, and I’ve already requested several members who have accused me of sockpuppeting for Matte Black to provide evidence, and received nothing. Accusing someone of sockpuppeting seems to be standard practice for anyone who happens to disagree with these guys. I in fact criticised the most recent Matte Black post, not that you can see it now.

          I'm not seeking to leverage off any claimed credibility attached to length of membership or posting history. I don't have any post history. The logic of my arguments is what I rely on. I've got plenty of money in the bank from corporates who have paid me well for my capacity for analysis.

          If I've got some ghost accounts I’d wish they'd hurry up and start coming in to back me.

          Do you have any answers to my first two questions above? No one else seems to want to deal with them.

          I think your message is the first serious attempt by anyone to deal with at least some of my questions, so thanks for that.

          Cheers.

        • Clear on 08/05/2018 - 14:56
          +2

          @TheGhostWhoWalks: I addressed the two questions regarding RRP. Much easier and better looking to say 20-50% off RRP rather than $13, $20, $5, $40, $100. With the former you have a better idea of the discount while the latter doesn't give you much.

          Titles have a character limit and specific rules on what needs to be listed. For example deals in a different currency have to list the equivalent in AU$ as well as mentioning shipping and the store itself. You won't find any room to mention how much they were before discount.

          So basically RRPs have a time and place in specific deals.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2018 - 14:59
          +1

          @Clear:

          As i said, i don't think they're RRP's. They seem to be the highest price discoverable on the net, and bodying may well be charging above RRP.

          Cheers.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2018 - 14:59
          +1

          @xev:

          This is OzBargain, not OzCheapestICanFindAtThisMomentInTime.

          At no stage have i indicated i can find cheaper prices, but that doesn't mean there's any bargains there. You have to go to Camel to discover that.

          You can make this about something else all you like. Avoiding the real issues won't resolve them.

        • Clear on 08/05/2018 - 15:04
          +3

          @TheGhostWhoWalks:

          They seem to be the highest price discoverable on the net, and bodying may well be charging above RRP.

          If you think the RRP is higher than what they actually are you'll need to provide proof of this. Then either the OP, a moderator or a power user can adjust the deal.

          This is OzBargain, not OzCheapestICanFindAtThisMomentInTime.

          It actually is to a degree. The rules are that the deal you're posting is the cheapest at time of posting. Sure some products will cost more than what they've previously been but the community will respond accordingly.

        • xev on 08/05/2018 - 15:11
          +1

          @TheGhostWhoWalks:

          i don't think they're RRP's

          Who cares what you think. What can you prove?

          This is OzBargain, not OzCheapestICanFindAtThisMomentInTime.

          OzCheapestICanFindAtThisMomentInTime is the rule, if someone can find cheaper you might earn a neg or two.

          We're all here for the cheapest prices, that's what this site is about,

        • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2018 - 15:12
          -1

          @Clear:

          I'd say the onus is on the poster to demonstrate they are using RRP's – it’s not for me or others to disprove them. In fact if you were to set out to deliberately maximise the apparent discount, you would take the exact same approach as @PJC. That’s not an “accusation”, it’s just a fact.

          I'll concede your second point, but as I said, just because they're the cheapest doesn't mean they're bargains. @WatchNerd’s approach is much more logical.

          I think @PJC and a few others understand exactly what the problems are. Their comments on other matters demonstrate they’re not all bumbling fools.

          I need to go. Cheers.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2018 - 15:14
          -1

          @xev:

          Try not to speak for everyone - members might find that presumptuous of you.

          I see @PJC is around voting up his favourite comments. Ever present, but mostly mute.

        • xev on 08/05/2018 - 15:26
          +1

          @TheGhostWhoWalks:

          I unreservedly apologize to anyone who is offended by my statement that everyone is here for the cheapest prices.

          I just don't know what I was thinking.

        • PJC on 08/05/2018 - 17:34

          @TheGhostWhoWalks: I refer you to my previous answer.
          Oh hang on! Look! I found it again at the previous $1.82 price! I knew you'd be pleased.

    • MiniInTheBox on 08/05/2018 - 17:25
      +3

      0.0 not sure what happened here, but PJC is a nice guy and help many members. i still remember the first touch with him:
      https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/307677#comment-4697050

      and, of cause. please ignore those problem, lol.

      • sky blu on 08/05/2018 - 18:18
        +1

        A merchant leaving some testimony for member PJC on Ozbargain? Unreal!

        Lucky LITB doesn't specialise in deals on timepieces, otherwise the merchant may be suspected of colluding with PJC again, no doubt via some back-channel communication.

  • Moderatorneil on 20/05/2018 - 15:27

    After much discussion and research including what the ACCC says on RRP, we have decided to add guidelines on RRP.

    savings’ or ‘discount’ statements when compared to the recommended retail price (RRP), but the goods have never been sold at the RRP or the RRP does not reflect a current market price.

    We've noticed that some posts have been writing deals that X product is x price, then picking a discount off the most expensive price on the web. This is misleading.

    We've also noticed some posts as above but comparing with an RRP not from a manufacturer but a random shop which tended up be higher. This is a bit misleading.

    a price comparison with a competitor’s price for identical goods, but the stated price is taken from a different market or geographical location

    We've noticed deals from Amazon US products but comparing the prices to the most expensive seller in Australia. This is misleading.

    Some products don't have RRPs listed on their official site so there is no RRP price to compare with.

    All of these RRP comparisons are complicated so…

    Let's leave off RRP all together or comparisons to the most expensive price on the web. For example, if The Good Guys are selling a coffee machine, I don't think it's a reasonable comparison to compare it with what a local coffee brewing place sells it for. What is more helpful is, if the poster chooses, to pick the next best price on the web.

    Or if it is Amazon, to look up the item on CamelCamelCamel, list the avg. sold price or last sold price.

    In short, let's forget about comparing with RRP all together.

    • Alzori on 20/05/2018 - 17:28
      +2

      Awesome, sounds good neil. Realistic comparisons are good, but yeah some of the stuff we've seen recently is a bit silly.

    • Moderatorneil on 31/05/2018 - 15:45

      I just wanted to expand on RRP a bit. There has been a misconception that it is a requirement to not mention RRPs. It is the preference to not use RRPs but there are circumstances where it can be warranted if the store usually sells for RRP.

      1/2 Price RRP Blackmores Nature's Way Nature's Own Cenovis Bioglan Swisse Maybelline L'Oreal Revlon Rimmel @ Chemist Warehouse.

      Their RRP is based on

      the save prices listed are calculated from suppliers RRP at time of preparation and when no such price exists is the retail price found at competing retailers. Due to discount policy we may have not sold at RRP.

      And in one mention in the OP appears to be selling at RRP normally and then 40% off.

      Of course, the best practice would be comparing the products with other competitors however for something like the Chemist Warehouse catalogues that may not be feasible for a poster.

      So to make it short, try not to use RRP in most circumstances. If you do, follow the ACCC's guidelines and quote RRP from the store selling or if not mentioned the manufacturer in the country of where the store is selling from.

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