Buyer Claims He Received Used, Different Product (Mavic Pro Instead of Mavic Pro Platinum) on eBay and Is Requesting Return

Hi, I am being taken for a ride on eBay and I'm not sure what to do now?

I am a shop and I listed a brand new Mavic Platinum, boxed it up and sent it to the winning bidder.

He has now opened a returns case and wants to return it saying it's not the right item and won't provide proper pictures of serials.

Has anyone else experience this, how does ebay mediate these situation?

Pictures he has sent me

Conversation Screenshots Part 1
Conversation Screenshots Part 2
Conversation Screenshots Part 3
Conversation Screenshots Part 4

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Comments

  • +11

    Nice to meet you shop.

  • Maybe a reminder of his/her own address is in order.

  • Don't you have any record of the serial number?

  • -2

    I think both side need to clam down,think what is he going to get put from this? A platmium vs onpy pro, what is the different in price?

    What you will be losing if ypu accept the return?

    Did you take picture of the box before you ship? Did you note down the serial number before you ship? Did you contact Mavic and see if the serial number been activated and when?

    You need more information to back yourself up when ebay step in.

    • +8

      if i accept return he sends me a brick or he sends me a used broken mavic that he actually had in the first place and i lose out on my brand new mavic platinum

      I have the serial numbers, so i will be checking with DJI

  • +4

    I'm afraid to inform you the hard facts - you will only get back that Mavic Pro not the Platinum one from buyer, and it may also in used condition - you also need to pay for return shipping, for this expensive item, better to get return with carrier.

    eBay will side on the buyers as they do not know what's the actual condition of item originally compared with what the buyer get. Even you show eBay your proof of purchase showing Mavic Pro Platinum in it - it just doesn't mean anything to them.

    Best to take video of the return, from sealed box to unboxing of the item itself in one take without edit - in case they just send you brick.

    Are you sure you just do not send the wrong item to begin with? Try to check your inventory first for any discrepancy. Apart from buyer not giving you your request of 10 HD pictures, buyer seems eager to reply and seems the usual annoyed customer who get wrong item.

  • +1

    How do you know that you didnt get a scammer up your supply chain ?

    Someone scammed your supplier with a dodgy return , who sold it to you without checking it as new and you didnt check what you sold and the customer now got the wrong goods?

    • confirmed hes a scammer below. it was brand new stock from DJI distributor and after I sent that msg you may have written I checked with my staff who I had known had opened it to show a customer a few days before.

      • -6

        I dont know if you are being scammed or not but just fyi if what you say is true about staff opening the box your listing on ebay is wrong

        "A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging"

        Taking it out of the box to show customers makes it like new or / New other / ex display - especially since you are removing the seal on the box

        so the customer or a future customer could make a claim against you or leave bad reviews

        • +2

          you havent seen my ebay listing so how would you know what it said? - brand new, checked before sent so that scammers cant scam.

          from now on im going to do a full video of me opening, showing it was sealed, showing all parts are 100% new and then me personally packing it and taking it to the postal counter with 3 gopros. i might even make a short film and send you a copy.

  • +9

    Seems the buyer sent more photos and now it is clear its definitely a scam. Two different serials, so the broken one is clearly the other one in his possession.

    dropbox link is updated with pictures so you can all see.

    • +4

      Crystal clear scammer to me!! Thank goodness he stuffed up his scam!!!!

      • +2

        Bake him away, toys!

    • +1

      So what does ebay say with the new proof its a scam?

  • What is Conversion?

  • op, do you have a tax invoice from the retailer that includes the s/n of the item?

    • yes

  • +8

    Op, this would be a good time to cancel the credit card and/or the bank accounts that are linked to the PayPal account.

    • Yep, just in case ebay rules against you anyway because the odds are they will!

      But seriously OP, get in contact with ebay on the phone, not through email and get this escalated up the chain immediately. If you have evidence and serial numbers you should be right. Get the process started asap.

  • +1

    When would this become a police matter? E.g fraud?

  • +4

    sent it to the winning bidder.

    You now have the particular of the buyer/addressee. You may want to start to prepare an application to have this case heard in a small claims court.

    http://www.localcourt.justice.nsw.gov.au/Pages/cases/civil_c…

    • +2

      Tell the scammer that you are preparing to take them to small claims court, as you have proof of serial numbers etc… it may scare them into dropping the matter.

  • +2

    post their address online for some good fun. obviously use vpn,etcetc. put their number on toilets too.

  • +14

    Hello

    I have some suggestions/notes for you, however the problem is that most of them won't succeed however worth a try depending on the level of knowledge of the scammer. This will hopefully save you a bit of time as I've encountered similar.

    1. On the postal packaging, if you have the weight written on the packaging that is sent to the buyer then the scammer cannot succeed as no doubt the two different versions will have different weights. In this case you ask the scammer to go to the post office and weigh the item on the post office scales. If the weight is not exactly the same eBay will side with you and the scammer will lose out. You should also request that the scammer provide you with a picture of the envelope/packaging with all the address details which will contain the weight - don't tell them about the weight issue in case they fake the weight on scales (that's possible too). Just ask them for all the packaging and labels to be photographed.

    2. Photos generally do not succeed as the argument is that it could be switched after images are taken. So the only way is video. There are lots of USA sellers who now video every package they send out and this has stopped this problem, a bit too late for you I know, however next time you will need to do this - normally once you share the video with eBay the scammer will back off. Store the videos on dropbox as you have done so that eBay disputes can view this as well as the buyer. When I visit the post office, the postal people there are now really nice about it and let me video them packing the item into the Australia post bag and then placing it in their shipping bins. This may not be feasible for you, however if you video it in your packing area ready for despatch this is normally accepted by eBay.

    3. As part of your terms and conditions you should advise a restocking fee of 20% (that's generally the maximum allowed under eBay). Also you should advise that return postage under all circumstances are the responsibility of the buyer. (Generally this part is difficult and eBay can force a return postage payment). So worst case scenario if you do need to refund the buyer then at least you have something back. If you need to refund, also make sure you refund the original transaction so that the paypal and eBay fees at the least are reversed. By that stage you have recovered about 33-35% of the sale. Not much of a compensation, but better than nothing. This often deters scammers because they know that they can't get everything back. No different to the steering wheel locks in the 80s on cars, if someone really wanted your car they'd just cut the steering wheel. However for most car thieves this was too much hassle - better to just find a car without a steering wheel lock - or in this case, find a seller without a restocking fee.

    4. Let the buyer know that, worst case scenario you will take back the item - he will need to ship it back to you. However you are going to report him to ACORN - https://www.acorn.gov.au/. This is a website that records scam buyers and sellers. Let him know that all his details- name address, purchase date, etc etc will be permanently recorded on this government website and the more that a scam is committed then the more likely prosecution will take place. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) he is not in the USA. I had a buyer try to scam me out of $120 of goods, however when I threatened to report him to the USPS for potential mail fraud and register him on the FBI site for cybercrime he immediately backed off. And all of a sudden he advised that he found the item and the other item he had no idea where it came from. This was despite having pictures of the items before shipment. eBay at the time said the pictures won't help.

    5. As you have recorded the serial number against the buyer's name, it is possible that you could contact the manufacturer to have the drone disabled or its location discovered when in operation. I'm not too tech savvy with this sort of thing, however it should be possible to find out given that you know roughly where he is (postal address). I think it will be easier for you when legislation will eventually have to come in for Drones, like cars.

    6. If you don't and never have stocked the cheaper model, then you should be able to advise eBay about this. Again, this is unlikely to work as the scammer I had said I had an item and brand that I never sold. However I was warned that eBay would side with the buyer because there was really no control over what is sent once the buyer has paid.

    7. When you next sell a drone to a buyer then once paid you should immediately send them a message with the serial number and a photo of the drone's serial number. This will stop future scams.

    8. Speak to your insurance company about making a claim for scams - their policy may cover this. You may also discuss the matter with Australia post about making a claim (max refund is $50) and potential mail fraud for you sending the correct item and a different item turns up at the buyer.

    9. Request that the buyer provide you with a statutory declaration when returning the item. This stops some buyers who have a bit of ethic. Others will just get one anyway, however it forces the buyer to reconsider their actions.

    10. Review the buyer's feedback and potentially some sellers will have provided feedback on the buyer's activities. If the buyer has done similar in the past, whilst eBay can't tell you at least you've recorded your grievances against the buyer. Be careful how you write your feedback because you can't have a positive feedback with a negative comment. You can however write that the buyer received item and advised wrong item sent and refund given (if you had to give a refund). The comment is not negative but for other sellers who read between the lines they will know.

    11. When setting up your listing you should also have setup buyer criteria. Again this is weak, however it does stop scammers who are really bad and have several infringements. With the buyer you have, you should also block them from any future purchases so that it does not happen again.

    12. Potential legal action for attempted fraud can be undertaken between you and the buyer. Once you threaten legal action eBay drops its shields but won't help you. It's just between you and the buyer. Sometimes a legal letter from a lawyer regarding fraud to the buyer will stop the buyer taking any further action as they know they'll need to go to court to settle the problem. You would need to send this letter to eBay and the buyer. The main problem is that it is he said, she said because at the end of the day, it's your word against theirs.

    13. When pricing your items, never be the lowest possible priced seller. This only attracts the worst buyers. Your pricing should be somewhere in the middle of the road. This sounds crazy but you will actually still get sales, and normally from non scammers but genuine buyers seeking a good deal. My prices when I sell on eBay are never the lowest possible or anywhere near that because the buyers at the bottom end - most of them are good, however there's often the one or two that will scam you. So you build into your pricing "scam factor" - on the expectation that out of every say 100 buyers, there will be one or two that are going to cause a bit of grief.

    14. And finally, with that grief, unfortunately with online selling the worst thing is that your pricing has to build in the cost of fraud. In reality though this is no different to a retail store that builds in some theft to their pricing or at the least, parts of the insurance premiums in their pricing for these issues.

    15. I hope that's saved you a bit of a run around. The main problem you will face is that eBay tends to side with the buyer no matter what unless there is some objective, fully certifiable proof that you have sent the right item to the buyer. In this case, as discussed above, you need video, you need to record the weight on the package, you need to advise the buyer before shipment of the serial number etc etc. It is a bit of a nightmare, however this is part and parcel of selling online in 2018. Retail used to be simple, you had goods in a store, you electronically controlled it, had video and had detectives etc. Now because you can't see or confront your buyer face to face, lots more is invisible. And you have third parties involved such as the post office.

    Good luck with it all!

    • Wouldn’t it be a good idea to list some of these points in your description to scare off potential scammers

    • Wow, @ibuy…some really great tips there. I shall certainly be keeping these in mind for the next time I list any goods for sale. Tip #9 made me smile though… you suggested that a stat dec might stop some of the more ethical scammers. I'm thinking that if they had ethics, they probably wouldn't be trying to scam you in the first place?! Lol

      • The stat dec stops the 'casual' scammers.

        They suddenly think, "Oh, there might be consequences…"

  • Best of luck with this matter, OP

  • This is an attempted fraud and should be taken to police. Tell.rbay you have reported it to police with the report number. That should dissuade them from ruling against you.

    Is the scammer local? What state? I can go visit him. Professionally, I mean. I'm a PI.

  • best of luck. You will lose the case, eBay will just ask the buyer to send it back to you. He will send the one in the pics (either the cheaper one or the non working one). Isn't much you can do at this stage.

  • Thanks guys, ive given all the info to ebay now including proof the drone I sent him was activated on the 18th when he received it, if thats not enough evidence I dont know what is considering he said ""I’ve rang DJI and this has already been activated pls explain?" in earlier messages.

    Ive added his details to my blog where I report all scammers. Ive had alot of people contact me saying thanks as they nearly sent goods to these people as well, so its good to get these peoples details on googgle so if people look them up they can see their history.

    <Mod: Personal Information Removed>

    • +2

      are links to blogs not allowed?

  • Good luck OP. Sometimes I wonder if it’s worth selling on eBay anymore. I rang them once about an issue with a sale, and as a seller you don’t stand a chance - the buyer wins hands down, and gets to give you negative feedback as well! Do not give in whatever you do!

  • I've made $80k in sales on ebay since I joined in 2001. Fortunately I've never been scammed but I'm absolutely paranoid of scammers and ebay's lack of support for sellers. I now list all items as pickup only and to "message me if you require shipping" in which case I tell the buyer I'll ship the item if they pay by bank deposit. It works almost every time. Last week I shipped a $1600 laptop to a now happy customer. There is no chance I would make this happen with Paypal.

    It is clearly apparent ebay is suffering financially due to lost market share, they're constantly offering zero fee listings. So it's the only time I ever use ebay now. I haven't paid their exorbitant fees for almost two years and have no intention of ever doing so again.

  • Can confirm the stickers have been swapped over and the serial number belongs to a Mavic Pro Platinum Unit.
    Good luck OP, you are in the right.
    You can even tell by the wrinkling in the sticker, these stickers are not meant to wrinkle like that unless they are tampered with!

  • Glad to hear that the scammer messed up with the serial numbers. I regularly sell expensive boutique perfumes on eBay under the inflated Australian RRP, and always take extreme caution. This particular product range usually doesn't come with a plastic seal which gives scammers an "in" so to speak, since a bottle swap (or anything else, for that matter) would be possible without altering the condition in which the product was sent. Despite the fact that all fakes of this product are very obvious, I have had no less than three claims (2 of which resulted in opened PayPal cases) levelled against me for selling a counterfeit product. Thankfully, people are often quick to drop their act when asked to provide evidence; if that fails to deter them, then quickly notifying them that I record one continuous video showing the packing, sealing, and weighing of all parcels usually gets them to coincidentally come to the conclusion that the product is, indeed, genuine.

    I would recommend videoing everything like I do (as others have already suggested). It's tedious, but worthwhile.

  • Sometimes I do worry about selling tech/luxury goods on ebay.

    I listed my louis vuitton leather belt on ebay at a higher than market price, which was bought and paid for via paypal by a buyer with a really weird username. It was made up of random letters + 10 numerical digits.
    I didn't feel comfortable selling it, so i refunded the buyer and cancelled the order.

    You can set Buyer Restrictions, but I remember years ago, you could restrict buyers who didnt have enough feedback score?

    • weird username. It was made up of random letters + 10 numerical digits.

      This is normal. Ebay creates random user id for quest accounts.

  • +2

    Hey guys, just an update. After the time, the buyer requested the return, ebay did not even check the case and the buyer can just upload tracking. Now the wait begins and i film the opening..

    I have kept all evidence and full conversation lenth in the dropbox link at the top.

    Will keep you posted with what happened.

    I called ebay today and spent 45 minutes with them.

    I made them look at all photos and they seem to agree with me however they said all i can do is wait for it to be returned and submit a dispute of his return.

    • Thanks for updating us.
      This is a really interesting story to see the dark side of planned scammers and how they work.
      I really hope you win out, OP

  • +1

    Hi Guys, received it today and videoed it. Have sent to ebay and will see what happens next.

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/4WGN76YyMHUF4vnw1

  • Went on ebay chat and discussed with them and this is what they said.

    Jules12:58 PM
    Hello, welcome to eBay Australia Live Chat! My name is Jules. May I have your full name please?
    Jules12:59 PM
    How can I help ?
    phasercomputers13:00 PM
    hey
    phasercomputers13:00 PM
    re: mavic case
    phasercomputers13:00 PM
    lled yesterday and was on phone for 45 minutes
    phasercomputers13:00 PM
    service request number 1-160605960843
    Jules13:00 PM
    Let me check the details of that first so that I can help you with your issue.
    phasercomputers13:01 PM
    they said there was nothing i could do but wait and show what i have received and dispute it
    Jules13:01 PM
    If you don't mind telling me here about it.
    Jules13:01 PM
    I see.
    phasercomputers13:01 PM
    i have received today and filmed the whole lot from the postman
    phasercomputers13:01 PM
    it is now 100% clear the buyer was a scammer
    phasercomputers13:01 PM
    here is the video
    phasercomputers13:01 PM
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/OgHo42RCl7aSv72J2
    phasercomputers13:01 PM
    where can i go from now?
    Jules13:03 PM
    I understand that you have a case for this item, for me to answer all your queries and help you resolve this, I need to investigate it first.
    Jules13:05 PM
    Thank you for patiently waiting.
    Jules13:07 PM
    Here what you need to do. Since the item is already delivered just today as tracking shows.
    Jules13:08 PM
    We will refund the buyer, then all you need to do for you to make your claim valid.
    Jules13:08 PM
    We will require a statutory declaration from you.
    phasercomputers13:09 PM
    ok, how should i contact you after the case updates and provide the stat dec?
    Jules13:11 PM
    If you want since the item is delivered I will close the case first to refund the buyer, then I will put the case on hold for 3 days for you to for you to provide us the completed statutory declaration.
    Jules13:12 PM
    I will send you an email for the format of the statutory declaration.
    phasercomputers13:12 PM
    ok thanks
    Jules13:12 PM
    You're welcome.
    Jules13:13 PM
    Then once it's done, take a photo of it and you can reply with it to my email.
    phasercomputers13:13 PM
    ok i will do that. thankyou, speak soon.

    • Sounds promising - I looked at the video but I am not familiar with this so no idea what it was showing

  • So even if the OP is successful, the scammer had a win because eBay allowed him the return, closed the case, and refunded his money! Outstanding work eBay!!

    • Hasn't this turned into a criminal fraud case now? Shouldn't this be reported to the police regardless of the eBay outcome?

  • +1

    Just an update. After i submitted the stat dec ebay said "We'll reply with an update on your case within 72 hours of receiving your declaration."

    7 days passed and no response so i chased them today and here is the chat log. 7-10 days and I should see my money again hopefully

    Mary Anne14:54 PM
    Thank you for contacting eBay Live Chat. My name is Mary Anne. Can I have your first and last name, please?
    phasercomputers14:54 PM
    SR# 1-160772124756
    phasercomputers14:54 PM
    it has been 72 hours, i have not heard any update
    Mary Anne14:55 PM
    Let me just check on that.
    Mary Anne14:55 PM
    In order to help you, I need to verify first your accouunt.
    Mary Anne14:55 PM
    account*
    Mary Anne14:55 PM
    So, van I have your first and last name, please?
    phasercomputers14:58 PM
    Rhys Evans
    Mary Anne14:58 PM
    Thanks for verifying, Rhys.
    Mary Anne14:58 PM
    I understand you want to make an appeal on the case decision for "Mavic Pro Platinum" correct?
    phasercomputers15:01 PM
    yes
    phasercomputers15:02 PM
    yes i want to appeal
    phasercomputers15:02 PM
    and i have sent the stat dec a while ago
    phasercomputers15:02 PM
    7 days ago i sent it
    Mary Anne15:05 PM
    Yes, let me just review your case, Rhys.
    Mary Anne15:05 PM
    Please bear with me while I checked some information here on my end.
    Mary Anne15:15 PM
    Thanks for bearing with me, Rhys.
    Mary Anne15:16 PM
    I'm done reviewing your case.
    Mary Anne15:16 PM
    And I also consulted my supervisor about this, and we decided to grant your appeal on this case.
    Mary Anne15:17 PM
    And since this is a high value item, the refund this will take place within 7 to 10 business days.
    Mary Anne15:17 PM
    But rest assured that you will get the refund within that timeframe.
    phasercomputers15:17 PM
    thankyou. please email me when refund has been completed
    Mary Anne15:18 PM
    Yes, Rhys. Aside from this, is there anything else that I can help you with?
    phasercomputers15:18 PM
    no, thankyou :)

    • +1

      Well done Rhys!
      I am sorry that bastard got his refund too!

  • Thanks for the update Rhys. This is better than some mystery books I have read.

  • What a piece of shit that scammer is. I can’t believe they have him his money back as well.
    Surely eBay should follow this up with the police!

  • An update… still havent got my money back so back on the live chat 11 days later..

    Jean16:33 PM
    Hello Rhys , good day!
    Jean16:33 PM
    Allow me to check on the reference number you have provided.
    Jean16:35 PM
    We have asked you to provide us a proof to support your claim right?
    phasercomputers16:35 PM
    yes
    phasercomputers16:36 PM
    its all been approved etc, i am just waiting on my $$ returned now
    phasercomputers16:36 PM
    my l,,ast chat conversation was with mary anne
    Jean16:37 PM
    Okay, I'll review the chat so that you and I will be on the same page.
    Jean16:39 PM
    As I can see Mary Anne should've sent an email to her supervisor to have this granted, what I can do to help is to send a notification to Mary Anne about the on goings of the refund.
    Jean16:39 PM
    I will as well tell her to get back to you through an email so that you'll have an update.
    phasercomputers16:39 PM
    ok thankyou
    Jean16:40 PM
    No worries, I apologise for the delay it's just that I need to contact the representative who have processed the approval to know further updates.

  • +1

    Another update

    Since you were able to provide us the document that we would need to support your claim we have granted your appeal which means that a refund will be processed to your PayPal account. Since this is considered as a high value item, an approval from our supervisor is needed to allow the refund to get through. As of today June 19,2018 we are still waiting for the approval to push through. I have sent a reminder to have this prioritised. Rest assures that you'll get a notification about the refund from PayPal once this will be approved.

    Although I cannot provide a specific date when will the refund go through, this has been prioritised and will be worked on in no time. I do apologise for the delay as our supervisors are working on tons of cases everyday.

    I'm hoping for you understanding. I hope that this helps.

    Thanks for choosing eBay!

    Kind regards,

    • Sigh.. lost my faith in eBay. I hope u get ur money back soon. And I hope the scammer trips, fall off the stair, broke all his ribs and get impaled by a metal rod, up his arse… yes im a psycho like that :)

  • Just got an email…

    "Hi Rhys,

    This case was closed previously, but we understand you have concerns. We'll review this enquiry and get back to you within 48 hours."

    • Wow they are really mucking you around

  • +2

    Well it wasnt 48 hours. But five days later I have an outcome. I thought this would be another time id just get ripped by the thief but in this case it seems the fight was worth it.

    Im not sure what ebay do and if they chase him down with the police etc, or if they cop it on the chin, maybe we will never know.

    Now to receive the funds… hopefully within the time specified this time.

    Thank you for contacting us about case 5170501391 for the following item:

    292556128481 - Mavic Pro Platinum

    We've reviewed your concerns and have reversed the outcome of the case. Within 48 hours, we'll credit the PayPal account used to provide reimbursement for this case. If you used another payment method, please open a PayPal account with the email address we have on file. This will enable you to claim your money.

    Because we decided in your favor, this case, any feedback left, and all detailed seller ratings left, will not affect your seller performance. In addition, any feedback left for this transaction will be removed.

    If you have other questions, please contact us. You can reach us by going to the eBay website and clicking "Help & Contact" in the upper right corner and then selecting "Contact eBay."

    Thanks,

    eBay

  • +6

    I have received!!!

    "eBay Marketplaces GmbH has sent you $1,224.90 AUD."

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