Raw Diet for Dogs

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  MynyMouqe on 04/07/2018 - 10:39

  When you say similar pricing, are you comparing to something middle of the road such as Supercoat, or the expensive "premium" ~$100 bags?

  Is it just as simple as asking for pet mince at the butchers, and mixing in some veggies?

  I've tried looking into it a couple of times but it always seems to descent into the rabbit hole of "don't give them what you wouldn't eat yourself", and "oh, but make sure you're only using free range meat because xyz" - i.e. the really preachy stuff.

  • 

    ShortyX on 04/07/2018 - 11:20

    +1

    Middle of the road (like Supercoat) is about $2/kg and other premium brands are $4-$5+.

    We pay $2/kg for pet mince from a butcher, frozen veggies from Coles are $1.60/kg (https://shop.coles.com.au/a/a-national/product/coles-smart-b…) and brisket bones are about $6/kg.

    For our 30kg dog, we give 400g mince, 200g veggies and a small (~50g) brisket bone. For our 5kg dog, we give 200g mince, 100g veggies and a tiny (~20g) brisket bone.

    Sometimes, I'll throw in an egg (and put the shell in a food processor and add that as well).

    I was hesitant too as it seemed complicated but I'm hoping it's as simple as that. Happy to hear feedback from others as well.

    FYI - Supercoat gets a pretty bad review here based on its ingredients. We were feeding our larger dog Supercoat and he was a poop machine.

    • 

      thirtysixd on 19/07/2018 - 11:31

      That sounds poorly balanced
      Cheap pet mince is usually high bone & fat and low in protein
      Vegetables are poorly digested…. dogs need protein + fat not carbs

      • 

        ShortyX on 19/07/2018 - 13:02

        I think the pet mince depends on the butcher. And from what I've read, veggies are fine… dry foods like Ivory Coat contain peas, carrots, kale, spinach, broccoli, etc.

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  try2bhelpful on 04/07/2018 - 11:58

  +2

  You need to be careful if you are using actual "raw" meat, particularly pet quality, to ensure it isn't contaminated by bacteria and you will need to ensure the animal is regularly wormed. Cooking the meat is probably better, even if you lose some nutrients in the process.

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  Diji1 on 04/07/2018 - 12:08

  +3

  So you've worked out that refined grains are bad for dogs, the next step is realising they're also bad for people.

  I'm sure the dogs appreciate it

  They really don't although the thought is nice.

  • 

    macrocephalic on 04/07/2018 - 13:22

    Dogs know the difference - even if they're the type the eat anything.

    My dogs are snobby and will often leave their food, but if you add some 'people food' in there then they'll eat it. They know.

    • 

      try2bhelpful on 04/07/2018 - 13:48

      +2

      We have a kitty with a sensitive stomach if I poach her chicken breasts she keeps it down fine if we try cat food, even premium no grain stuff, she throws it up. The chicken breasts aren't long term and we are trying to wean her onto sensitive stomach cat food but she wolfs down the poached breasts and only nibbles at the tin foods. Believe me cats know when they are being fed quality human food.

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 04/07/2018 - 18:17

    +1

    Pretty sure most people realise that heavilly processed carbohydrates, like sugar, is bad.

    Like sugar, people still consume it.

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  redpump on 04/07/2018 - 12:46

  Make sure anyone planning this research how to make a proper balanced diet using raw feeding (such as organs, veggies and other stuff). Sister switched back to premium kibble as she couldn't handle the balancing well.

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  [Deactivated] on 04/07/2018 - 12:53

  Issues you will possibly run into is bacteria and parasites.
  Your dog may get bloated, start farting a lot more, and become lethargic as a result.

  We give our pets raw meat and fish as treats, but not daily.
  More frequently we give them cooked meat and fish, doesn't seem as problematic with the more frequent consumption unlike raw.

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  myusername on 04/07/2018 - 13:38

  small children?

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  altomic on 04/07/2018 - 17:06

  that title could have been hilarious

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  ShannonN on 04/07/2018 - 18:10

  While I don't have pets now as a kid I had a dog raised from young he eat what the family eat no pal, no special puppy mixes everything veggies chops etc and he lived to a good age, had good teeth was healthy and active got on well with the rabbit who eat the same stuff plus extra veggies of course

  Can't believe pet owners today must have a certain product for certain breeds or extra vitamins
  I think its all TV induced crap.

  What do cats and dogs eat in the bush/wild they don't get branded kibble mix with extra vitamin x for healthy skin and poached chicken breasts LOL

  • 

    try2bhelpful on 04/07/2018 - 18:17

    Yup and they, generally, die at a much younger age. Personally I don't LOL for these creatures as they often lead harsh lives and are prone to sickness and diseases that we eradicate with innoculations, good food and protected environments. It is an accepted view that the average life span of a feral male cat is 2 years.

    • 

      ShannonN on 04/07/2018 - 18:21

      yes you're right on feral animals,but pls show me the stats on the average life span of a farm dog?

      None I know of get the store bought approved feed that is being discussed here they eat what the family eats, veggies, leftovers and sheep or cattle bits that are left from the butchering.

      • 

        try2bhelpful on 04/07/2018 - 21:47

        and when they get old and can't do the work anymore then the farmer takes them out the back and shoots them. You don't see a lot of retired farm animals.

      • 

        ShannonN on 04/07/2018 - 22:31

        @try2bhelpful:

        Nah they get sent to uncle bens for pet food the same as most of the old horses

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  ayoole on 18/07/2018 - 13:08

  +1

  I'm cross posting my post from a comments thread elsewhere, as it seems more relevant here. It's discussing my dog's diet - less than $20 cost per fortnight, using all fresh human-grade ingredients.

  My dog is a mid sized labradoodle, and he eats two meals a day. As a rough guide, dogs should eat 100 grams of food per day per 4kg of body weight. So my 6kg dog gets 2 x 75g meals per day. However, bone-based meals should weigh a little more, because much of the bone is expelled. I typically give my dog a 100g bone meal, or 75g meat meal. In my case, that works out to about the size of your hand excluding the fingers.

  For two weeks food, I will probably have 2-3 kilos of raw chicken or turkey offcuts, which you can buy at Coles and Woolies nowadays, although it's much cheaper at the butcher or chicken shop. This includes chicken frames (the bone carcass after meat for human consumption has been removed), wing tips, whole wings, necks, giblets, hearts etc. A bag of beef or lamb bones from the butcher will usually cost a couple of dollars. Keep the bones and carcasses as whole as possible, so long as your dog can manage it. Chewing bones increases dental health in a way brushing cannot, as it both cleans the tooth enamel and also strengthens the bone around the teeth, which makes the teeth stronger and longer lasting. (It's the same reason that humans who do regular resistance exercise have much lower rates of osteoporosis. Applying pressure to bones makes them grow stronger.) And it's a great form of exercise for dogs, who need strong jaw muscles. 30 minutes of gnawing a bone will clean your dogs teeth far more than 2 minutes of brushing.

  Then I'll buy a kilo of regular beef mince ($7 at Coles, but shop around) and half a kilo of offal like beef or lamb heart, kidney, tripe etc. My dog doesn't like liver, but yours might be fine with it. Liver is very rich, so only use in smaller amounts.

  Finely grate or blend a few vegetables, 200-400grams is enough. I add carrot, zucchini, apple (no seeds), spinach, lettuce, ripe tomatoes, and whatever else I have at hand. (Don't use onion, garlic, mushrooms, dried fruit, grapes, avocado, nuts or other seeded fruits.) Chop up the offal, mix with the mince and veg. Some people like to add a bit of vitamin powder or calcium powder, but I don't do that. Sometimes I throw in some grated cheese because my dog loves it. I roll it into portion-sized meatballs. You can serve these raw or cook them if you like. Remember that dog stomach acid is 5 times stronger than humans, so they can eat raw meat, including chicken, without getting sick.

  That's it. I freeze everything in single meal portions, and thaw as I need it. Thaw in the fridge for 24 hours, or on the kitchen bench in just a few hours. I generally give the calcium-rich food (bones, carcasses, chicken wings etc) in the morning, and softer foods like the meatballs or chicken giblets/offal at night. The dog will sometimes want to rub and clean its face on something (the ground is preferable to your carpet) after eating bones, so be conscious of where they are for 20 minutes after eating. Also be conscious that some dogs can be aggressive with bones around other dogs, so seperate dogs while eating if you need to. My dog will try to bury bones if he's not too hungry, so I take them off him if he tries. Try not to let your dog eat meaty bones that have been buried, it can give them stomach bugs. Fasting helps gut health, so it's okay if your dog skips a meal occasionally.

  It takes me 20-30 minutes to prep and freeze two weeks food. It's really easy, and so worthwhile for your dog's health.

  Dry food (and to a lesser extent canned food) is just processed muck. Imagine if you only ate cookies and tinned soup all the time. Your health would be terrible. Dried food also causes mild dehydration, which can cause long term health problems like kidney disease. This is even more problematic in cats, who require a lot of moisture in their food. Pet food in Australia is unregulated, which means that whatever they say on the packet or in marketing is impossible to verify, and random checks by consumer groups like Choice have generally found big problems with their claims. It took the poisoning of several hundred dogs in the US to force pet food regulation laws to happen, but in Australia we have not embraced such laws.

  (Here's a conspiracy theory for you too: Veterinary students at Sydney University get one day of nutrition training in their whole degree. And that training is conducted by an employee of Hills and Royal Canin pet food, a subsidiary of Colgate Palmolive, who also sponsors the University.)

  Dogs should eat a diet that replicates what they would eat in the wild. It's that simple.

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  miicah on 18/07/2018 - 13:29

  I've been wondering if the diet we give our dog is good enough for a while now. He gets a small handful of meals for mutts kibble in a knock around toy (kong) in the morning. In the evening he gets some chunkers (Aldi branded) which are little cooked meatballs in another toy that usually takes him about 20mins to eat. Then to go to bed we give him another small handfull of the MfM.

  Once a week I go shopping and one of his evening meals is replaced with meaty(ish) pork bones, or a lamb bone. He is a big sook and won't eat raw poultry (but Coles BBQ chickens just dissapear).

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  timmytee on 18/07/2018 - 14:27

  We'd been trying for quite some time to feed our 3.5yr old greyhound a raw diet, but while sometimes he would wolf it down, more often than not he'd go and take a sniff then leave it alone. We've reverted to dry food (Ivory Coat), which he eats consistently, but would like to give raw a try again sometime. I'm guessing it's going to be a matter of trial and error to find the right type of animal mince/offal that he likes.

  I did have a question about how long is fine to leave raw food out if not eaten? Is it okay to try serving again later if he doesn't eat it? We found that we ended up throwing out a lot of the food after multiple times being put out without being eaten. Lots of money going in the bin there!

  • 

    ayoole on 18/07/2018 - 15:25

    +1

    Raw food can be left out comfortably for at least 8-12 hours, if you want your dog to try it later in the day. Keep it out of direct sunlight. Dog stomach acid is extremely strong and kills most bacteria.

    Perhaps try weaning your dog onto raw food, mixing it with progressively less cooked food over the course of a week or two. A bit of a pain, but he/she may just need to grow accustomed to it.

    Otherwise, if the dog isn't interested in the food, refrigerate it and serve the same food for the next meal. Hunger is a great motivator.

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  pjammies on 18/07/2018 - 16:00

  Has any one tried this range before?
  https://vetsallnatural.com.au/product/balanced-life-dog-food…

  It's suppose to be air dried raw food which is rehydrated with water. It seems to be an efficient alternative to true raw dog food.
  I've been mixing it with premium kibble for my dog and she seems to be enjoying it.

  • 

    ShortyX on 18/07/2018 - 18:31

    Nearly $10/kg! :O

    • 

      pjammies on 19/07/2018 - 13:18

      Ya, its exxy. But a 3.5kg bag can feed up to 14kg worth once it's rehydrated with water.

      • 

        ShortyX on 20/07/2018 - 12:54

        That's what I mean - 14kg for $130. :)

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  PixieNCharlie on 22/07/2018 - 14:01

  I raw feed because I couldn't afford to keep feeding Ziwipeak when my brothers big dog joined my family, and then now a foster dog so I've gone from feeding 10kg of dog to 85kg of dog. I must admit I probably spend over $100 a week on raw food for the dogs but its well worth it to me as the health benefits I've seen have been amazing. If I prepped better and in larger quantities I could significantly reduce the costs. It is said to be the best diet for your dog if its balanced, but it would also be the worst thing you do for your dog if you do not ensure its balanced. I also saw today a study published that, out of 177 kibble brands tested, only 6% of the canned food was actually complete and balanced and 38% of the dry. You don't necessarily have to go raw, you can feed a high quality kibble and add fresh food to it. Sardines, chicken feet, eggs, coconut oil, veggies that have been steamed or pureed to get the best of the goodness out of them, raw meaty bones, raw chunks and so forth.