Paid Deposit for Land. Lost My Job. Settlement in Jan 2019

LTinahz on 11/12/2018 - 22:14
Last edited 12/12/2018 - 02:46 by 1 other user

Hello,

Been reading and observering a lot here but a first time poster.

Will try and keep it short even though I really need some life saving advice. I had put $44k deposit for a block of land south east of Melbourne in one of the very talked about estates in Melbourne. It was supposed to title in June July 2019. I lost my job early Nov 2018 and still searching.

Now my conveyancer contacted me advising that the developer is titling the land in Jan 2019. I am in no position to settle the land as no bank will approve my loan without a job. I can't nominate anybody because of the no nomination clause in the contract. Plus with the current property market scenarios I am not too sure if buying this was the biggest mistake I made in May 2018. As per my research I bought at the peak.

I am really really stressed as I can't afford to lose $44k(3 years worth of saving).

I want to hear from the property/finance gurus. What are my options? Really looking for some constructive advice.

Much appreaciated,

Home & Garden

Comments

  • oscargamer on 11/12/2018 - 22:16
    +2

    What advice did your conveyancer give you?

    • Tinahz on 11/12/2018 - 22:21
      +11

      He said there isnt much I can do. He can ask for an extension but that will be max couple of weeks and that too most likely with a penalty

      • [Deactivated] on 11/12/2018 - 22:34
        +71

        Lol. I think we all just assumed you hadn't spoke to them yet. That's what normally happens around here.

        • Kangal on 12/12/2018 - 10:48
          +5

          I like how he omitted that, as if he knew this question was going to be asked.
          The ole bait and switch.

      • tukulzz on 12/12/2018 - 12:07
        +12

        I'd like to know more about your situation to see if I can help. Can you please PM me your contact number to discuss this further?

    • dcep on 11/12/2018 - 22:37
      +28

      even then you'd 've just started a new job on probation + tighten lending rules = only nigerian prince will lend you $

      • Bargain80 on 13/12/2018 - 16:37
        +2

        can you give me the contact number of the nigerian price. you know, for research purpose.

    • Tinahz on 11/12/2018 - 22:37
      +11

      Have been trying but its tough to get a new job this time of the year. Also all banks require atleast 3 months of job continuity before they look at approving a loan. So even if i get a new job today it wont help me.

      • jjjaar on 12/12/2018 - 07:35

        Actually not all banks do. I had a friend who took a new job and then purchased so she was less than 3 months. The options were significantly limited, however some banks (I think about 4?) still did consider her. I believe she ended up at Bendigo Bank.

        • Seedy seed on 12/12/2018 - 08:42

          My loan is through bank of adelaid, who own bendigo. Awesome to deal with!

        • johnno07 on 12/12/2018 - 22:45
          +2

          I'm not sure when your friend got her loan, but, following the Royal Commission, this is much less likely now than it was a year ago.

      • Cyberninja on 13/12/2018 - 00:30
        +8

        What type of job are you after? I know it's a long shot but if your skill set matches what my company is looking for, I can refer you.

      • Jackson on 13/12/2018 - 18:28

        Not wanting to sound as callous as some people here who obviously have no problem being, but I think in times like this you really should be flexible about the job you take. What I mean is while you are looking in your field you really should get someyhing else that will pay the bills, and in the worst case scenario in 3 months you could still have that job and 3 months of work behind you should the proverbial contact the fan.

      • Sira on 13/12/2018 - 23:12
        +2

        I work at a regional bank, not Bendigo but similar and can tell you that if you have worked for more than 2 years in the same role, you are between jobs for 4 months or less and get a new job in the same profession then the probation period at the new job is waived/not considered a factor.. Get hunting though because those 4 months will get chewed up, especially at this time of year.

      • ashm on 14/12/2018 - 12:55

        my friend was interviewed 3 days back and got a job offer yesterday!
        Don't get sold by 'new year so no jobs' sort of sentiment.
        Be positive and keep applying for jobs.

        PM me if you are in IT, I'll check with my friends if suitable roles are available.

        Good luck with Job hunt.

        • humdingaling on 16/12/2018 - 08:54

          i concur

          last week was the 9th year anniversary for my current job

          they gave me paid leave thru xmas to new years as well which was bonus

    • seedyrom on 11/12/2018 - 22:52
      +27

      Whilst you are at it, take the advice of former Treasurer Joe Hockey, and "get a better paying job".
      Never forget that guy and that attitude.

      Marie Antoinette told the French to eat cake, and they took off her head.

      • Jackson on 13/12/2018 - 18:25
        +1

        That Marie Antoinette thing is a myth (at least in that form)

    • Zachary on 13/12/2018 - 13:45

      dem negs…

    • HighAndDry on 13/12/2018 - 17:35
      -3

      Dunno why you're being negged. This is the obvious solution. Not easy, but simple. And it's not like OP can stay sustainably unemployed.

      • Scrooge McDuck on 13/12/2018 - 18:38
        +1

        Because the suggestion wouldn't solve the problem and instead trivialises it.

        • HighAndDry on 13/12/2018 - 22:18
          -1

          The need for a job isn't a trivial thing.

          • Scrooge McDuck on 14/12/2018 - 02:04
            +2

            @HighAndDry: No one has suggested that it is. But the OP has asked for advice on their loan problem. Commenting with a simple suggestion which goes without saying and which won't solve the loan problem, trivialises it.

    • CandyMan on 13/12/2018 - 21:31
      +1

      Too easy joe hockey

    • DAT on 14/12/2018 - 13:49
      -1

      That's a neg vote well spent. Oh what a feeling!

  • sillyguy on 11/12/2018 - 22:29
    +7

    Can your family help?

    • Tinahz on 11/12/2018 - 22:38

      Unfortunately no

  • [Deactivated] on 11/12/2018 - 22:32
    +66

    Thanks for joining.

    I have no solution and wish you all the best.

  • djkelly69 on 11/12/2018 - 22:38
    +9

    Your 3 basic options are to settle, default on the contract, or on-sell. Since one and two are crap options at this point, start looking at 3.

    Not certain for Vic, but usually for an on-sale you will still have to stamp duty, extra solicitors fees and commission to a selling agent. You will have to work out if that is better than defaulting based on a potential sale price.

    Would also look for a job and talk with brokers ASAP.

    • stingy-oz on 12/12/2018 - 11:52
      +3

      On-Sale will requires you to settle the land, hence is a dutiable transaction. Only Nomination is exempted but the contract doesn't carry nomination so it's not going to work for OP.

      The only way OP can do this is to go for no-doc loan. Speak to a broker that specialize in those area. Bank will not lend to anyone literally….

      • dcep on 12/12/2018 - 13:03

        Oh wow!! i've heard of low-doc loan but not no-doc loan!

        didn't know it exists here,

        worse than subprime loan in the states ?

        • Jackson on 13/12/2018 - 18:30
          +1

          Potentially, could be at 6%, high in today's rates, but nothing stopping you from refinancing when a job comes up

  • ihbh on 11/12/2018 - 22:47
    -1

    What were your exact plans in May 2018 if things had gone according to expectations?

    • Tinahz on 11/12/2018 - 23:11

      Wasnt expecting to loose my job. But even after that i was confident that i will be back in workforce by jan feb and would have been easily able to settle then.

      I wasnt really happy with buying at peak when i realised in aug/sept that property prices in melbourne are sliding rapidly.

      • ihbh on 12/12/2018 - 07:36
        +29

        What do you reckon a block is worth now vs when you paid for it (total price, not just deposit) - e.g. 450k vs 500k. Also what could it be worth at the low of the market in the months/years to come - your estimate - e.g. 430k.

        Subtract what you paid for it (what you will have to settle for) with the estimated value at the low of the market. If it's less than 44k, then let your deposit go and be happy you only lost $44k (provided the developer can't sue you for the difference).

        You can always buy it later on at or near the low for a lower net cost (including your lost 44k deposit).

        • chriise on 12/12/2018 - 12:09
          +12

          This is an interesting perspective.

          Essentially option (a) settle, if you can, for the $500k price or (b) lose your $44k deposit and purchase the same again in 12-18 months for $400k - total spend $444k.

          That’s all assuming OP agreed to pay 500 and the market will take a 20% slump from its high.

          Edit: OP said below they paid $440k. There’s a good chance similar land will be valued at under $400k by June/July when they are ready to buy again.

          • MrMoo on 13/12/2018 - 10:04
            +1

            @chriise: That is a good plan and all but his initial deposit took him 3 years to save up. It will take him another 3 years to get that much and by then his looking at paying around the same price as what his paying now.

            • chriise on 13/12/2018 - 11:41
              +13

              @MrMoo: Then tell the developers you'll be ready to settle in May when you have secured a job and lending. The market condition is leverage over the developer. Their alternative is finding another buyer that will now pay at least 400K for the land…. or just wait a couple more months and settle with OP without any drama.

              • MrMoo on 13/12/2018 - 12:24
                +3

                @chriise: @chriise Unfortunately that doesn't fly with settlements like these. It's not negotiable over word of mouth and a handshake. If he can't fulfil his obligations his in breach and depending on what the contract has in its clauses his up for his deposit and potentially any losses the developer has incurred in loss of sale.

                The law is very black and white when it comes to these kinds of transactions. Which is why his situation sucks. His out 3 years of savings =( I personally would beg family members to help but I don't think family members would have that kind of cash lying around to just hand out to him.

                • Jackson on 13/12/2018 - 18:36
                  +8

                  @MrMoo: The law is black and white but the contract can be amended if the seller agrees, this happens all the time (for other circumstances during a sale). If it's true that the land has lost 50k or more since the purchase then theres a compelling reason for the seller to consider.

                  • HighAndDry on 17/12/2018 - 12:45

                    @Jackson:

                    If it's true that the land has lost 50k or more since the purchase then theres a compelling reason for the seller to consider.

                    No, that's a compelling reason for the seller to hold OP to the contract because otherwise the seller will lose more money. Hell, it's a compelling reason for the seller to SUE OP.

                    • Jackson on 17/12/2018 - 13:52

                      @HighAndDry: The ideal situation for the seller is they close the deal at the agreed price, but its an all or very little (as opposed to nothing) bet. If the buyer decides they will take the lose of 44k, then the seller could be saddled with the property for a long time and this might be a poor outcome for them. As far as sueing them, you can only sue someone who is breaking the contract, this guys isnt talking about doing that he is just exercising his rights to cut his losses, I would expect its a slippery slope to prove otherwise in court. There are lots of reasons that a buyer can put before the court that they eould potentially listen to, and the opposite is true that the vendor sueing could end up quite out of pocket also.

                      • HighAndDry on 17/12/2018 - 14:33

                        @Jackson:

                        As far as sueing them, you can only sue someone who is breaking the contract, this guys isnt talking about doing that he is just exercising his rights to cut his losses

                        No, OP doesn't have the right to walk away. Doing so is a breach of contract. Losing the deposit is just the first consequence.

                        • Jackson on 18/12/2018 - 19:25

                          @HighAndDry: That may be, but it warrants investigation. OP should seek legal advice. Anecdotally solicitors i have spoke to have said that its rare for them to even lose a deposit, however circumstances vary of course.

              • Jackson on 13/12/2018 - 18:34

                @chriise: Cant believe this doesnt have more upvotes, its an option worth exploring, in times like these no stone should be left unturned

              • drprox on 14/12/2018 - 07:19

                @chriise: This is a good point

        • Scrooge McDuck on 12/12/2018 - 12:46
          +5

          Despite what OP feels they "can't afford to lose", they may already have lost it. That's the nature of investing. People who parrot the tired old line about paper losses not being real, are lying to themselves. Holding on only exposes OP to more risk.

          • MrMoo on 13/12/2018 - 12:27
            +1

            @Scrooge McDuck: Yes while that is true there is such a thing as unrealised and realised gains and losses. If you hold an investment and don't sell it you haven't lost anything. His not flipping houses, his probably going to keep this place for decades. 20 years from now it'll definitely be worth more than the 440k his paying now.

            Forfeiting his deposit and having nothing is arguably a lot worse than exposing himself to this level of risk.

            • ihbh on 13/12/2018 - 13:50
              +3

              @MrMoo:

              20 years from now it'll definitely be worth more than the 440k his paying now.

              May be, maybe not. Check out Japan after the end of the 80s. Nothing is 100% certain.

              Forfeiting his deposit and having nothing is arguably a lot worse than exposing himself to this level of risk.

              Not necessarily. You have to look at the opportunity cost. E.g. a share index fund or even a term deposit (depending on how much he's overpaid for the land) might provide higher returns and lower risk over the same horizon.

              • MrMoo on 13/12/2018 - 15:00

                @ihbh: Thanks for the read. I didn't know this. You are right nothing is certain, that sucks for Japanese investors back in the late 80's right before the crash. Although 30 years on they are back and kicking! lol. However my statement of "20 years from now it'll definitely be worth more" is not a guarantee I guess.

                In regards to the opportunity cost, well currently if he forfeits his deposit he has nothing to put into a fund or term deposit. If we are talking over the course of 20 years then it depends on how much risk he is willing to expose himself to. His ROI will only be that of how much he puts in. A property investment gives him higher returns because his essentially investing with money his borrowed which is much more than he'll ever be able to invest with from money earned. I personally feel the probability of property returning more over 20 years versus index funds and term deposits are high and would be open to the risk.

                Everyone's got their own risk profile

            • Scrooge McDuck on 13/12/2018 - 14:17

              @MrMoo:

              Yes while that is true there is such a thing as unrealised and realised gains and losses.

              The only difference which comes to mind is for tax purposes.

              If you hold an investment and don't sell it you haven't lost anything.

              That's not accurate. When you buy an asset for market value (assume no transaction costs), your net return is zero. If the market value decreases after a period of time, your net return is negative. You can choose to ignore it, but it still exists.

              Any increase or further decrease over the next period starts from that first decrease which is lost forever. To prove that point, if you had waited until after that first period to purchase the same asset, you would be wealthier by the difference (plus whatever else you may have done with the funds in the meantime).

              Market value represents the collective wisdom of the entire market at the present. If the market expected a positive return, that would already be factored in to the current price. A previous decrease bares no indication of a future increase (beyond expected growth). To surmise so would be a gambler's fallacy.

              • HighAndDry on 13/12/2018 - 17:40
                -1

                @Scrooge McDuck: Not exactly. While paper losses are still losses, unless you realize them and cash out, those losses aren't "locked in". If you buy high and sell low, your cash won't rise again if the market rises. Whereas if you buy high, but don't sell when it falls, you'll also be buoyed by a future rise in the market.

                • Scrooge McDuck on 13/12/2018 - 18:00

                  @HighAndDry: Also an "unrealised loss" has 2 more letters than a "realised loss". The difference you're talking about is just the difference between investing or not, it doesn't add anything to the discussion.

                  • HighAndDry on 13/12/2018 - 18:19
                    -1

                    @Scrooge McDuck: You're right, but when we're talking about investing,

                    just the difference between investing or not

                    That seems like a major difference. Aka all the difference.

                    Holding onto an investment is very similar in consequence to buying into that investment. But "whether to invest or not" is probably the biggest investment decision.

                • ihbh on 14/12/2018 - 16:21

                  @HighAndDry:

                  If you buy high and sell low, your cash won't rise again if the market rises.

                  Likewise if you buy high and sell low, your cash won't reduce further if the market falls further. If we all had a crystal ball, we'd never make any losses.

          • Jackson on 13/12/2018 - 18:38

            @Scrooge McDuck:

            Holding on only exposes OP to more risk.

            In the short term, not necessarily in the long term. It's all about working out the numbers

  • ChillBro on 11/12/2018 - 22:54

    Out of curiosity, which suburb was the land in?

    • Tinahz on 11/12/2018 - 23:09

      Lyndhurst

      • Kangal on 12/12/2018 - 10:52
        +18

        Also out of curiosity what was your job/trade?

        (there might be people who might respond to your answer and offer a job, I've seen it happen before)

      • danger163 on 12/12/2018 - 21:48

        Marriot Waters?

        • Mkr on 14/12/2018 - 05:19
          +1

          Aquarevo??

  • [Deactivated] on 11/12/2018 - 23:23

    Do other people want that piece of land for a similar price or is it already under water?

  • El Grande on 11/12/2018 - 23:30

    Can you sell it on for say $30K plus the new guy pays the rest? Where is it and what is it called?

    Someone here might be interested in the same estate. I want to buy land to build in the south east of Melbourne but I have done zero homework. I'm sure there would be more people out there who are interested in the same project.

    • Tinahz on 11/12/2018 - 23:38
      +1

      It is in Aquarevo estate in Lyndhurst. 450sqm and i bought it for 440k. Paid 10% deposit

      • Nugs on 12/12/2018 - 06:22
        +36

        sheesh, 440k for half a block of land.
        .

        • SlickMick on 12/12/2018 - 10:12
          +20

          a fair way from the city. I'd want 5 acres to live that far out. and a 4 bedroom lockup garage for that price.

          I can see what people are saying about Sydney and Melbourne prices.
          Makes me realise that Australia doesn't have a property bubble - it's just a couple of cities are particularly expensive.

          • skyva on 13/12/2018 - 14:25
            +1

            @SlickMick: and you'd be paying at least $1m more. That is the reality of the market in Melbourne.

            Not sure stating unrealistic expectations of what you'd want is going to help unless you have a time machine, as 5 acres in Cranbourne was worth $450,000 about 12-15 years ago.

            • SlickMick on 13/12/2018 - 17:50

              @skyva: not saying it isn't real, just saying "wow". I used to like Melbourne, now not so much

      • El Grande on 12/12/2018 - 21:33
        +1

        How does the air smell in that area? I remember years ago someone decided against buying in Patterson Lakes due to Melbourne water processing plant in the area. Apparently the air has a stench to it. Is this true? I have never been.

        • Kontiki on 13/12/2018 - 18:45
          +1

          Only directly next to the plant. We live about a kilometer away in Sandhurst (next to Lyndhurst) and I can't smell a thing.

          $450k for just some land is a lot though. For about 200k more you can get that much land plus a nice one storey house in that area.

          • Mkr on 14/12/2018 - 05:21
            +4

            @Kontiki: That’s why developers call them “lots” ;)

      • paul11 on 15/12/2018 - 19:34

        I paid $227K for 400sqm in Melbourne West (Tarneit) 2.5 years ago. CBA valuation 2 months ago came out at $300K. Land is settling late this month. You really paid too much.

  • Lunarboogie on 11/12/2018 - 23:34
    +19

    The way property prices are plunging, lose the $44,000 and buy back the land when it drops in price by the same figure or more. Judging by the current rate of losses, this should happen by May. Hang in there.

    BTW - what did you get let go for?

    • geoffs87 on 13/12/2018 - 09:15
      +2

      not sure if this is valid advice - i'd speak with your solicitor before letting this happen.

      Depending on your contract, you may be liable for also paying the difference in price between what you bought and what the developer eventually on sells for, as well as selling costs etc. I've heard the only way out of that in bankruptcy, but noone wants that for you.

      My advice would be to short sell the property, so someone takes on the liability upon settlement, and hopefully you sell for no less than the outstanding amount.

      Best of luck!

    • freakatronic on 15/12/2018 - 22:37

      It depends where as to whether it's "plunging" or not. Up and coming suburbs are still clocking gains. Established blue chip suburbs are seeing losses in the ≤10% range from what I read in the papers. Given OP is buying in a new estate, the price mightn't have gone down at all.

  • Diji1 on 11/12/2018 - 23:49
    +12

    Seek professional advice regarding your options.

    Sorry to hear about the unfortunate situation, I hope you can resolve it.

  • mbck on 12/12/2018 - 00:02
    +138

    Sorry to hear man. Please don't do anything stupid. At the end of the day 3 years of work is not that much compared to a lifetime of adventure. Plenty more of opportunities.

    Take care man.

    • mooney on 12/12/2018 - 11:53
      +49

      This comment is perfect. Your mental health is worth more than $44k. Stay strong. I hope everything works out for you.

    • SeVeN11 on 13/12/2018 - 03:45
      +10

      Just pretend you've lost the $44k and focus on getting the job.
      i.e. prepare for the worse and hope for the best.

      That's the only thing you seem to be in control of.

  • garetz on 12/12/2018 - 00:06
    +12

    Most conveyancers are good when there are no problems, but when a problem does arise they have no clue how to respond. Talk to a real solicitor, not a conveyancer, 44k isnt small change, so you might need to spend alot more money for real legal advice. Your only out is them changing the settlement date, you might be able to get that sorted otherwise you lose your money. They propably had a no nomination clause specifically for this reason, which should of been explained to you before you signed. I guess this is an expensive lesson, if you make a financial decision you should always consider if you can afford it with no job, if you cannot then the risk is too high.

    also check if you have insurance for losing your job, that might pay you for 3 months of work lost.

    • ATD on 12/12/2018 - 08:36
      +6

      Most conveyancers are 'usually' good 'enough' when there are no problems, but when a problem does arise they have no clue how to respond. Talk to a real solicitor, not a conveyancer, 44k isnt small change, so you might need to spend a lot more money for real legal advice.

      To the OP, the above is 100% correct, the only option you appear to have is to spend money in an attempt to save money. This will mean paying a lawyer (who knows property law and specifically the law with off the plan contracts, like the back of their hand) to go through the contract and see if there is a technicality that can be used to terminate the contract and recover the deposit. No guarantees in spending that money that you will get the result you hope for.

      On a learning point, never put down a deposit that you aren't prepared to lose (that isn't hindsight of when something goes wrong, that is foresight in assuming that things will go wrong - which is what lawyers should do). This is especially the case with off the plan contracts with the risk of change of circumstances being far greater than a shorter contract period. The land devs will want 10% to meet their funding conditions for the dev in the least number of lot pre-sales - just because they want it doesn't mean you need to give it, just walk away.

      Unfortunately you aren't the first nor the last to be in this sort of situation. The other thing is that losing 44k may not be the end of it, if the dev loses more than this if property prices have/will plunge on a resale.

      • Lastchancetosee on 12/12/2018 - 09:37
        +4

        If you're out of work, Legal Aid or whatever it is chalked in your State will be able to provide you with free legal advice.

        • SlickMick on 12/12/2018 - 10:16
          +1

          free sounds better. some lawyers will loan you the money - I'd be careful

          • Other on 12/12/2018 - 12:35

            @SlickMick:

            some lawyers will loan you the money

            Almost never now.

  • Baysew on 12/12/2018 - 02:47

    I can't nominate anybody because of the no nomination clause in the contract.

    Could you explain what this is?

    • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2018 - 03:44

      There is a clause in the contract that states no nominations allowed.

      • Name on 12/12/2018 - 13:35
        +2

        Seems like a silly clause… If the developer wants money and OP can't give said money, why wouldn't the developer make it easier and allow them to nominate someone else who can give the developer money.

        • athk on 12/12/2018 - 15:45

          No, they make 44k and sell the lot to someone else

          Making 44k profit. It's genius and pretty shit.

          Or they sue you for the whole 440k and probably still keep the lot and sell it again…

          Depends how they want to play it really.

          • Rizzler on 12/12/2018 - 21:29
            +2

            @athk: Disagree. I work for a developer and in this market if the buyer found a replacement I would accept a nomination. Have done this for about 10 recent settlements in 900k apartments.

            • athk on 12/12/2018 - 22:06

              @Rizzler: Yes, but you seem like an honest person :)

              Not everyone is and that's the truth. Obviously they have some sort of issue if they have put in a no nomination clause…

              • Rizzler on 12/12/2018 - 22:14
                +2

                @athk: It’s there to mitigate settlement risk of the secured buyers….if he is proactive and communicates with the developer this goes a long way.

                I had sexy little Chinese buyer try to give me a sob story about not having the money to settle, yet she had the audacity to carry a nice leather handbag when she met us to tell her story….. We kept her deposit.

          • matt-ozb on 12/12/2018 - 23:46

            @athk: If you are in default of your contract, you generally don't lose the deposit .. you are likely to be sued for the loss of the other party which might be more or less than the deposit.

  • RubenM on 12/12/2018 - 07:03
    +6

    Given that the deposit was $44k, does that make the purchase price $220k, $440k, $880k or something else?
    If it's $220k, you might be able to still get the remaining $176k (plus costs) somehow, otherwise you're in a sticky situation.

    While you're not able to nominate another buyer according to the contract, it's reasonably likely that the vendor would prefer selling at the agreed price rather than enforcing the contract.

    How has the value of the land changed since you exchanged contracts?

    I would strongly recommend reposting this on propertychat.com.au as it's much better suited than a bargain forum (no offence Ozbargain).

    Also act quickly. Not doing anything now would probably be the worst thing that you could do.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/12/2018 - 07:50
      +2

      It's Lyndhurst. Anything more than 220k for land would be a troll thread.

      • stirlo on 12/12/2018 - 10:17
        +9

        As above its actually $440k for a 450sqm block. Crazy price considering how far from the city it is…

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