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Specification: Meets API SN, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, VW 502.00/505.00, MB approval 229.3, Renault RN 0700, 0710.
Got one. Thanks
Just one huh. Definitely living on the edge
No really need for Syn. oil, but it is same price as mineral, so a great deal
That’s great news I’ll go and put some mineral oil in my turbocharged performance engine. I’ll let you know how it goes.
How many killer wasps?
As the local oil nerd here, I can confirm for you it will go absolutely fine.
It might break down rapidly during track use (if that applies), and you'll probably need to knock 1/3rd off the change interval if your manual calls for a Synthetic, to remain shear free.
However I can assure you it will run A-OK while the oil is still healthy
About the only cars who have small enough oil galleries to 'need' synthetic (mineral won't go thin enough) are hypercars or exotics.
I mean, think of any engine you've ever built.
From Nissan RB's, to LS commos, to EJ\EZ subies, 4G Mitsi, and even my specialty, K series;
They all get 'broken in' with mineral after any major work being done.
Don't misunderstand, synthetic is better in every way (assuming people are smart enough to USE the extended drain interval afforded by it, and not waste it), but I assure you it would "go" just fine for you.
Very interesting post. Considering the amount of oil I burn through I probably wouldn’t have to worry about changing it earlier. I effectively do a full change between yearly services just with top ups.
I still would rather just run the recommended oil at the end of the day.
@tp0: To keep you feeling happy then, I'd suggest one of the 'fake synthetics'.
The tldr, is that [i always forget if it was Shell or Mobil] won a court case against API to call Group3 oils 'Synthetic', because we can't just pump it up in that form (hydrocraked).
Previously only Group 4 and 5 were 'synthetic'.
We only have 2 readily available Full Synthetic oils out there Nulon Racing (metal tins), and Penrite 10Tenths. (you can find redline, RoyalPurple, Amsoil, etc in specialty shops).
You can find good Group3 blends, called 'Synthetic', in the likes of Penrite HPR, Castrol Edge, Mobil1, Shell Helix, and the list goes on.
If it's not about $100 AUD for 5L, it's unlikely Group4+5 (you'll notice Penrite bother to label 'full PAO and Ester' in the 10tenths range).
Knowing that a cheap 'synthetic' can already be mainly Group3, I'd have no hesitation to run a 'Semi Synthetic' either.
Most SUBARU people are obsessed with DELVAC for daily use. It's a mineral Diesel Oil with worlds of Sulphated Ash (cleaning additive) and a world of Zinc.
Basically an oil is a liquid film, the additives, and the type of oil base simply don't matter unless the fluid film is about to, or does fail, and for a normal road user, even in a factory turbo car (like a Golf GTI, not being driven hard) a semi-synth would be more than enough.
@MasterScythe: How did you know it was a GTI? Was it the oil burning or a good guess because every second person drives one?
Thanks for the info though. I run Castrol Edge and it’s interesting they can print “Full Synthetic” on the bottle.
@MasterScythe: The SUBIE guys are obsessed with DELVAC and before that it was Mobil Synth 2000, because MSR rated them 20 years ago.
@askme69: Oh trust me, 2 of my closest mates own subaru performance related businesses…. I'm well aware….. the snakeoil we have to row through with the customers…. eugh.
@MasterScythe: Good luck putting this in a car installed with a DPF filter. Your assumptions are based on bro science
@Winston100s: Why do i need luck for this?
Why would i do this?
I dont own a diesel, no one has asked about diesels.
What's bro science?
If thats a snide way of sayign heresay, no, all my education and testing is backed up by professional uoa's and 1st hand engine wear measurements.
@tp0: Its good to know you support oil companies. I change my oil every 2 years or 30.000 kms whichever comes first.
change my oil every 2 years
change my oil every 2 years
Just so you know, this is too long.
Oils have a TBN (total base number) which will show how resistant oil is to becoming acidic.
Even if only doing short trips, oil will become contaminated with moisture and fuels, and become acidic.
You won't notice anything, until you spin a bearing because the soft alloys have been attacked.
For someone who wants to use long drain intervals, invest in a TRUE full synthetic (I suggest Penrite 10Tenths, because it's an actual PAO based oil), please consider changing it yearly not biyearly. If money is the key concern, run a DIESEL rated oil, as their TBN is much higher.
That said, it's your car, and you can treat it how you wish!
Best of luck!
@MasterScythe: NVM, the answer is below.
@MasterScythe: Shell ultra 5W40 Bmw dealer uses it says its fine for even 40.000 kms i don't track the car just normal driving
@Yrs: Which dealer?
I'll be sure to avoid them.
Also, they've verbally told you something, thats great (sarcasm).
Have they provided any fact based evidence to prove this?
Any at all
Used Oil Analysis?
Or hell, even a warm Compression Test of an engine that has been on those sort of intervals for an extended period?
Also, SHell Ultra 5w40 is not a Mineral oil.
Used Oil Analysis?
Used Oil Analysis?
Who do you trust for this?
I realise that not all locations are served by the same companies, but maybe there are some national companies. Otherwise, are there some general guidelines you can provide, please?
I don't drive a high performance vehicle; mine is European diesel touring wagon, but I want to know that I'm treating my engine right and that it is going to last a decent length of time. I'm currently using a Penrite oil, but I don't remember the 'model'. I know it when I see it in the shop when I go in to buy it. :P
@Yrs: Ultra is in my opinion the best on the market. 40,000 sounds close to the limit. I'd go a happy medium at 20-25 if you wanted extended intervals
@MasterScythe: Hi, Many thanks for sharing your expertise here. What is the best oil I could put into an 2012 ISF?
I do not ever plan to track the car, and it's not modified in any way except a custom exhaust. I do like the occasional spirited run (within the speed limits). The car sees a fair bit of city driving (daily driver), and lots of freeway/country driving twice a month when we go out. Thank you.
ps: I am (I think) currently using the Penrite HPR 5 (5w40).
@aussieolfaction: Honestly, It's a little new for me to have had any personal experience with the current Lexus fleet.
If it's still to expensive to 'be skidded on the track' then most 'enthusiasts' aren't going to know much yet.
With that said, I personally use HPR5 myself, as it goes on special often, and has both a very high level of Zinc, and a splash of Boron.
As compared to HPR10, which has a little less Zinc and no Boron.
I'm running it in some boosted\built EJ20, 3 different K series motors, and an NB MX5.
I quite like it, I'd say keep it up.
A little off topic;
After reading, personal experience, and independent 3rd party tests, I really only believe in 2 oil additives.
Zinc (+Phosphorous, but they go together, ZDDP), and Molybdenum.
Soluble MolyDTC is PROBABLY better than Disulfide (MOS2), but even then, Moly is by FAR the softest element you'll put in your engine; it won't cause wear, but it's proven anti seize properties are amazing (think, moly dry lube).
In fact the whole reason you often see Honda engines, with 300'000kms, good compression, and (the shocking part) visible crosshatching left on the bores from run-in, is because the Honda factory fill in the 90's was a simple 30 weight with a HUGE moly overload (I haven't heard of this changing either).
Anyway, I'm ranting….
HPR5 is a good oil, and if it meets all your specs I wouldn't hesitate to use it in practically anything.
Nulon Racing, and 10Tenths will obviously be better, but nearly triple the price; and with no track-work, probably a huge waste of money.
And the reason for my rant?
If you're one of those people who want to feel like they're doing 'a little more' for their engine, fully aware that it's PROBABLY not necessary, but it makes you feel good?
@MasterScythe: The HPR5 does tick all the boxes as far as it being compatible as specified in the owner's manual. I'm glad to know you recommend it as well, and will continue using it. :-)
@Yrs: I’m pretty sure changing my oil yearly and topping up as necessary doesn’t mean I’m single handedly propping up the oil industry.
I use mineral castrol and have no problem going over 10.000 kms
@Yrs: Can you please provide a Used Oil Analysis to back up these claims?
Will make ZERO difference, but ZERO
Can you mix different brand oils?
I've got about 3L left of penrite 5w30 full synthetic which won't be enough for my next change.
You lose the benefit of both of them (because you don't know what additives are 'watering down' the others; for example, half a bottle of nulon, and half a bottle of Penrite, would leave you with 50% of the usual ZINC of the penrite, and 50% of the usual Moly from the Nulon); HOWEVER, the base oil will be unaffected.
If you're mixing synthetics, just treat their drain interval as if it was a mineral, because it's still a high end base oil, but additives out of balance could break down faster, resulting in a more acidic oil than ideal.
EDIT: You're better off buying a 1L bottle of HPR5 to add to that 3L of leftover penrite you have.
cant trust someone with a margaret thatcher dp…
how is this compare to Shell Helix ultra or Castrol Edge?
My car Peugeot 3008 was recommended to Shell Helix Ultra so is this still suitable?
is there much different from 0W30(recommended) to this 5W30?
Can some oil specialist shed some light? Thanks.
Don't think you can use 5W30 in a car that recommends 0W30. Think the viscosity is different and may cause issues.
I was recommended Penrite 0W30 by Penrite oil search
but with Castrol Edge 5W30 was recommended
You certainly can, especially in an Australian summer.
While, as a rule of thumb 'the lower the first number, the better', a 5w is still a VERY thin 'cold' oil.
As a rule of thumb also, while you sacrifice a little 'cold start protection' what you end up with, is a much more stable long term oil.
To make a Xw-X oil(0w-40) for example, you need to use chlorinated paraphins, which break down VERY quickly.
A great example is Castrol Edge 0w-60, within 500kms it's sheared to a 35W roughly, and stays there for a full drain interval.
As such, a low of M3 owners will run a 10w-50, rather than a 0W-60 to ensure a "45ish weight" oil for the majority of the drain interval, rather than a "30ish".
PLENTY of exmaples of this on BITOG forums.
Basically, 5w in a 0w car will be fine.
Hell it's summer, all my usual 5W-30 cars are on 5/10w-40 for the summer months.
Oil pressure doens't drop much, with the heat, but it DOES drop some, so a little more pressure can't hurt :)
have run 10w-30 in an engine speced for 5w-30 in the past for well over 100k kms - no problems at all
@dddp: Yep, not surprised at all.
All my early 2000's jap cars, looking at their manuals and comparing it to our temperature, are OK with anything from a 5w-30 to a 20w-50 (not even joking!)
I'm too much of a nerd, and obsess over stats and enjoy doing Used Oil Analysis reports, so I don't rely on manuals, but I know a lot of people do, and thought a few may find this interesting.
A good example, is that of an NB MX5; states 5w-30 on their oil cap.
But in QLD, with our temps, the manual lines up with a 10w-40.
@MasterScythe: thank you for the professional advice on oil..
I will use 5W30 oil for my car then… :)
@tonnypham: I didn't claim to be a professional; just an obsessed oil nerd, high performance 'car guy', and hobbyist engine builder.
But glad to be able to help.
@MasterScythe: I have just run 20w 50 in a Hyundai Elantra 04 for a year as i dont drive hard at all, and it was 10 bucks for castrol gtx which I had a couple of bottles left over from my previous car. Do you think running a test like this would be useful or do you think running that oil for a year would ensure a poor result?
The manual advises that at our temperatures the engine can run on 20w50, but then it goes on to say that the VVTLi system may not work optimally with this oil. Thats the main reason I hear from people abouy not using thicker oil.
@Jackson: Variable valve timing usually relies on oil pressure to function.
The reason it may not respond optimally, is that being thicker might mean it takes longer to fill/empty the vtc system as the cam advances/retards.
20w50 in an aussie summer is likely fine, but iirc those elantras were a 10w40 or 5w30 compatible vehicle yeah?
10w40 id expect would be more suitable, and also comes up at $10-20 sort of prices.
But really, without a UOA its guess work.
The fact the manual warns about the vtc would mean to me a little thinner is probably better, at least once the weather starts to cool down again.
@MasterScythe: I checked online as I dont have the manual handy and it lists it as 10w 30, so its probably 20 bucks at best on sale. TBH if it was just me droving it i would be less concerned but theres at least one deadbolt that regularly drives it, so once I get through the 20w50 I will start uaing the correct grade which means looking out for a cheap deal from now.
Where do you usually send your oil and what does it cost you?
@Jackson: Run a 10w40, or a 15w40 its usually even cheaper on sale.
Its also one of the closer viscoscities to "unmodified" so it shouldnt break down much :)
I live near a small, but big brand refinery, so i just use them, i used to fill up there too, was about 35c a litre cheaper than a servo. But its staff only now :(
Really though, the uoa's can't be faked, and why would they?. Its just a test for base elements/metals/minerals/water and viscoscity.
I've tried most of the aussie ones google turns up, they all come back pretty profesionally.
Recommended by who? Sales person/Dealer or the owners manual?
by Shell oil search for my car
Read your owners manual. They will tell you the standards and viscosity of the oil. The standards of the oil will also be printed on the bottle. If it meets the standard and viscosity, it is safe to use.
@andyhui01: nothing in the owner manual about oil but peugeot website recommended 0w30.
@tonnypham: Does your 3008 have a petrol or Diesel engine?
And I’m a bit surprised that the manual doesn’t have anything about (engine?) oil. All of my Peugeots’ manuals talk about the oil. And I’m pretty sure that it is somewhere under the bonnet, too.
My 2010 RAV4's manual recommends 0W-20 oil which I could not get from any Auto stores (eg Repco, Supercheap Auto, AutoBarn etc).
0W-20 oil. Really? May be for the Artic countries :)
So I used 5W-20 synth. for 2 years (after the 3yr warranty ran out) and then 5W-30 synth. until now. I don't think even the Toyota dealer used 0W-20 oil when I took it in for the 6mthly service in the first 3 years.
The car now has only done 32,000kms so all the money spend on the lub has been mostly wasted on an 8yo car. Needless to say it still goes like a new car :)
I believe, it's only a con from Toyota to use super thin oil to improve on the fuel economy for the US market.
My 2012 rav4 has come out of 6 year extended warranty.
Thinking of getting my own oil for services by a local mechanic as you can't see in a Dealership what they do or change during service. Not sure which oil they used. Will check service book
Still a great oil but always prefer ultra
Is Shell better than Mobil1?
Same. I prefer Castrol over both
thanks everyone.. so I should wait for ultrra or castrol edge to go on sale
enter your model here - appears there's a few variants of 3008 and i don't know what yours is
i have used that mine is old car 2010 turbo 1.6 petrol.
Much of a muchness to be honest if you don't push your car hard (i.e. on the tracks).
I've used Nulon Full Synthetic, Castro Edge Synthetic but both aren't true synthetics but rather group IV hydrocracked, Shell HX7 and Shell HX8.
I've found in order of quietness Shell HX8, HX7, Castro Edge and then Nulon but only by a very small margin for each.
I just get whatever is on sale but tend to wait for Shell HX8s or Ultras. Nulon is good because it came in 6L packs.
so Shell HX8 is better than Castrol Edge? I better grab 1 while waiting for HX8s and Ultras. Thanks.
I prefer Shell HX8 to Castrol Edge myself, though much of a muchness to be honest. I'm not a pro so…yeah.
@willister: if that is the case I definitely get 1 while waiting for Ultra …
I have just changed it with Nulon full synthetic @ $20 autobarn…
@tonnypham: As long as you change oil at regular intervals I don't think there is much difference to be really honest.
I still have 2 bottles of HX7s in the garage and 1 Nulon but I usually change 3 cars at once…1 for my dad's diesel (which can't take HX8 due to the DPF) wife's RAV4 and my Camry.
@willister: with my rav4 i went for penrite hpr5 5w40.. (10 more zinc for engine protection)
is this HX8 5w30 suitable and better than penrite hpr5?
@tonnypham: I've always stuck to either Edge initially then moved to HX7/HX8 with the RAV4 (mine's done 110,000kms) but I've just been using 5w30 not 5w40 which is thicker oil.
I always go for whatever is cheapest as to me they are much the same provided you change oils regularly, I do them every 10,000kms or 12 months, whichever comes first.
I've never used Penrite…
@willister: i always changed once a year rougly abit over 10000kms… not sure if I just go for this HX8 and change every 6 months to make it better?
@tonnypham: haha better? whatever the book recommends.
It will possibly prolong the life of your vehicle provided all other things are looked after but better? Doubt you'd get any more hp from it or notable fuel efficiency.
Oil is to mainly lubricate the engine's moving parts.
@willister: I am not looking for fuel efficiency and I don't think will get much from it.
I am only looking for lubricate and protect engine so the engine last longer.. with about $30 or under for 5L is a steal…
I don't want to pay for ridiculous $75 per 5L .. it is not worth it to me..
I signed up for Club Plus for $5 which gives $10 Loyalty credit. Brings price down another $5.
That's the OZB spirit.
every buck counts
Wow, replacement oil filter is more expensive than the oil
depending on the car.
Nulon for 20 bucks was a better deal, I have a year at least before i need to worry about it so will hang out for that
Can i use it on holden cruze 2010 cdx auto?
Is this stuff full synthetic? I sent a mate along to buy some at supercheap and he swears the helix stuff on sale was called synthetic technology not fs
*all good. Website says full synthetic
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