Do The Police Have Too Much Power? Random Pullover

Hi all,

I was driving down to Melbourne for the long weekend with my partner when we get pulled over by a highway patrol car in Stawell. The officer said it was a random stop and breathalyzed me. It came back clear. He asked for a license and asked a few questions - where do I live/ where am I going/ why? In the meantime, and this part worried me, his partner was checking every corner of my car. It almost felt at this stage as they were looking for something to get me on.

Bit strange but fair enough I suppose. He takes my license back to his car and does some checks. He comes back and checks that my car is an automatic which is a condition of my license - yep all good.

He eventually hands back my license and doesn't really say anything. I ask him if I did anything wrong to which he says as he's walking back to his car "No why", I said well you pulled me over and he says "I can pull over anyone at any time, anywhere" and heads back to his car.

I guess what really concerned me about this interaction was his tone/demeanor - he was very aggressive, and he didn't really explain anything. Interacting with police is intimidating enough but when they seem to have an attitude it really makes you defensive. I don't want to imagine what the experience would have been like if it was just my partner in the car.

It was also quite strange that they singled my car out of all the others on the highway. The cynic in me would say it's because I drive a 20-year-old car - I rarely see nice cars get pulled over for 'random' checks and also because I am growing a beard at the moment, not a nice combination with my middle eastern background.

I did some research and yes police now have the power to pull anyone over at any time without any reason as long as they conduct a breath test.

The incident made me think of a time when I was driving home with a friend and we enter an RBT area. I wasn't drinking so all good and the cop was actually really friendly and had a joke with us about our Halloween costumes. Afterward, my friend remarks that he's surprised they didn't defect my car. Granted my car is old but there's nothing wrong with it and has roadworthy/is regularly serviced etc. His point was more so that the police are a law unto their own and if for some reason they don't like you, there's not much we can do.

For what its worth, I am a big fan of the police. I live in a lower socio-economic area and I see what they have to deal with. They do a great service to the area. My issue is more with the laws, police being able to pull you over for no reason seems excessive. How can we defend ourselves without making things worse?

Would love the community's opinions/experiences.

Jesho

Comments

  • +19

    his partner was checking every corner of my car. It almost felt at this stage as they were looking for something to get me on.

    I think it is pretty standard, to check car for defects when pulled over. Officer might have just been going around checking tyres (which is probably one of the most common defect things, I personally never check my tyre tread tbh, and I am not even sure which marker etc exactly it is on tyre, I think you look at certain spot on tyre).

    Have you got a record … Sometimes 'random stops' are not so random. I know when I was a teenager, another teen at youth centre known for drug dealing, said cops had put a note on file pull him over every time they see him. That's fair enough IMHO, since he (and his family) were fairly bug time drug dealers with organized crime links, and were selling more than just weed, him and his associates were responsible for being the first ones to make hard drugs readily available to kids/teens. Before that, you could get weed, but nothing else, without alot or hassle and having someone get it from someone else, who got it from someone else, etc.

    • No record, not even a speeding fine. Only thing I thought it could have been is that the car was my fathers who passed away recently which I could have explained but since they said random pullover and they didn't say anything I'm not sure.

      • +35

        That's exactly what we want our police force to do. To do their job. I'd be mad if they wouldn't do their job properly.

        Few minutes of your time in years, that's the price you pay to live in a society safely.

        • +6

          'to live in a society safely'

          OP said Melbourne.

          • @richo262: Not gonna lie, your comments made me laugh sadly. Which was your intention I guess. Maybe the OP's issue is actually related too.
            Don't know why you were getting negged! Have an updoot madlad.
            Hope VIC government puts their back together and do something for Victoria than pleasing some foreign organisations.

          • +8

            @richo262: Yes. He's talking about the safest state, and second safest state/territory in Australia:

            https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/victoria-the-saf…

            Don't buy into the hysteria peddled by the Libs in the interests of trying and miserably failing to win and election.

    • +2

      I've had the look around the car.. but I've also had police deal with me in an aggressive tone, might be because they've had a bad day which can happen to anyone, but they need to be mindful that they're dealing with the public.. I've always been polite back and 99% have been great (used to get pulled over every weekend just about… combo of driving a lot, having a noisy ricey car and being on p plates)

      To OP I wouldn't look too much into the thoughts about it being related to your ethnicity.. it really could have just been a bad day for these guys and they decided to target someone..
      As for too much power, for the police who are doing the right thing with the right attitude i don't think so.. only maybe too much power for people that perhaps shouldn't be police.. but this is the case already imo

  • Op, are you on your P?

    • Nope - full license for about 6 years.

      • Then why does your licence say you can only drive an automatic? Is this a Victorian thing? (In NSW you can drive any transmission vehicle when you're on your full licence, and I'm pretty sure Green Ps too)

        • +9

          It's also a WA thing. Makes more sense.

          • @follow: Having the automatic condition on your full licence that says you can only drive vehicles with an Automatic transmission? They only have it on Red Ps in NSW

            • +8

              @kerfuffle: Yes. You then have to pass the test in a manual to remove the condition.

            • +4

              @kerfuffle: how can you drive manual when you only passed an auto test ?

              • -2

                @dcep: Learn to do it later or learn in an empty carpark or something. An idea would be to put L plates on while learning to drive manual as a warning to others but I'm pretty sure driving manual by yourself while on L plates is going to attract cops pretty fast.

                NSW only sits for one driving test when you get your licence and that's when you get your Red Ps. No driving test required for green Ps and full licence as far as I'm aware (it's been a decade since I got my full licence)

                • +3

                  @kerfuffle:

                  put L plates on while learning to drive manual

                  That’s illegal !

                  • +1

                    @CandyMan: You may neg as you wish
                    Get caught with an L plate without a learner and you will cop it 👮‍♂️

                  • +1

                    @CandyMan: In Queensland it's illegal not to :)

                • +1

                  @kerfuffle: Going back some time ago (a bit over a decade), even on P1's where you had passed the test with an automatic car, the RTA/Police allowed driving manual provided you were with a fully licensed driver - No L plates required.

                  You were then able to re-take the test to remove the restriction with no extended period before you could sit for the HPT (P2 test).

              • +3

                @dcep:

                how can you drive manual when you only passed an auto test ?

                Umm, with some, difficulty, and likely damage to your vehicle .

                I taught myself manual, used youtube (and some advice from friends) . To start with, I would only drive very quiet/empty streets. There is a freeway next to me that is completely dead late at night. Same road during daytime, I felt bad holding people up behind me that didn't neccessary know that I was learning (and having trouble changing speed quickly due to the gears).

                I feel it would have been good to put L plates on while I was transitioning to manual, but when I asked, I was told it is strictly prohibited to display L plates if not a learner. I was actually going to make a sign and put it on back window of my van saying that I was learning manual (so other vehicles would know, to go around me if they are in any sort of hurry).

                It wasn't particularly hard to drive manual, but I probably did some harm to my gearbox. Main thing is, I ensured I was particularly attentive and overly careful (something I already knew how to do, because I know how to drive safely and follow all road laws, just don't know how to do gear changes.
                I would have felt rude if drove on very busy roads in peak hour with single lane though. Just inconsiderate of drivers behind me, when I had a choice to drive on quiet/empty roads where I wouldn't be holding anyone up.

                • @[Deactivated]: isnt this what hire cars are for? :)

                  • @iainmacsoul: Lol . It's actually the main reason I decided not to rent my little campervan out. I would wanna be sure the driver is competent with manual driving and going to look after my vehicle.
                    I did look into the 'clutch kit' costs for my vehicle, so I had a rough idea what I would be up for if I wrecked my clutch through bodgy gear changes.

              • +1

                @dcep: "how can you drive manual "

                It sounds wrong, but you have already demonstrated competence in the myriad of other things [ seating position, mirrors, steering, braking times, acceleration need for cornering, oversteer/understeer…]. After all, it's your or your partner/parent/friend's clutch and gearbox, and if you get it wrong, you're not going to get very far.
                The only real danger is stalling with a bogan who owns the road behind you, or filling your pants when you try a right-hand turn @ >50K in too high a gear.
                I like to go around the block before driving on when I go from manual to auto, just to shake the habit of putting my foot on the "clutch" when pulling up to an intersection and think a gear change is warranted….

        • +2

          Well that's very silly isn't? A license allowing you to drive a manual when you have no clue how to? In QLD you have specific practical manual drivers tests, but now that I look at my license, I can't see anything about auto or manual either, huh.

          • +2

            @HardlyCharly: nothing means no conditions attached = you can drive either

        • +6

          In Victoria, condition A only applies to probationary licences but if you can only drive an automatic due to a medical condition, condition V will be shown and it applies to full licences also.

          • @ascorbic: Yeah, medical condition.

          • @ascorbic: I think they changed the laws last year where anyone getting their licence in 2018 as an auto will only be allowed to drive auto cars even after the probationary period

            • @Milk tea: I'm not aware of anything like that. Where did you hear it from?

              • +1

                @ascorbic: Oops i read a news article on it that they were looking at imposing that rule but obvs hasnt happened

        • In QLD you can only drive a manual if you've passed a test in a manual car. My brother who has been driving 13 years now only just got the legal right to drive a manual because he moved interstate and renewed his license in a state without that restriction. He's never driven a manual so wouldn't be confident doing it anyway.

          Seems kind of crazy to be able to drive any transmission without a test, but then I guess if you've been driving long enough you only have to concentrate on the 'one' thing when driving a manual.

  • -4

    Power trip. Mmmmmm

    • -1

      ITs to do with the rum corp and convict mentality here.

      The cops can harass you at will , strip search you and kill your kids going to dance festivals….

      and the boring masses LOVE IT.

      More police on the beat is what they want here in NSW. 1500 of them.

      The mind boggles

  • +20

    Highway patrol can be a law unto themselves and attract a certain kind of officer.

    But yes, in Australia, 'random' breath testing is the catch all stop reason police can use to pull over any person. But interesting enough, they'll have checked your REGO before pulling you over. They also have a list of cars not to pull over, usually those involved in gangs, sadly as a law abiding citizen you have 'less' protection from 'random' interactions with police.

    They also get things wrong more often than is reported.

    • +7

      They also have a list of cars not to pull over, usually those involved in gangs,

      Huh? So then we should all be in gangs?

      • +6

        They can pull over these cars. But for their own safety, they are told to wait for backup before approaching.

    • But yes, in Australia, 'random' breath testing is the catch all stop reason police can use to pull over any person.

      Seems that way to me too.

      On many occasions I've seen police officers conduct "random breath tests" on suspected crims they are investigating, but haven't identified.

      • I've had "random licence check" a few times

    • +4

      They also have a list of cars not to pull over, usually those involved in gangs, sadly as a law abiding citizen you have 'less' protection from 'random' interactions with police.

      They also get things wrong more often than is reported.

      These statements are complete fabrications.

      Someone is a little butt hurt and believes everything they see on ACA.

      • Ahh ACA, and all the similar programs.

        Someone loses $500 from a dodgy program they fell for.

        How do we make this more interesting?

        SCAMS ROBBING OUR NEIGHBOURHOOD - HOW YOU COULD BE TARGETED NEXT.

  • +83

    I got pulled over after work one day droping a staff member at their house, regular unit not HWP, cop comes to my window, licence, where are you going, where did you come from, etc. Partner meanwhile is on passenger side, torch into back seat, asked passenger a few questions, took a couple minutes of my time.

    End of it nothing, I drove off. I was polite the whole time.

    Next day I asked a cop if he knew what that was about, he told me they were looking for the same model car as mine, same colour (blue VY Commodore, so pretty common) stolen by a male and a female. I'm male, passenger was female. So you never know what they were looking for, end of the day it was a couple minutes off my back, who cares. At least the police are out there looking for criminals, just like I want them to be.

      • +13

        Yeah it is. Because it explains exactly what's going on behind the scenes that the usual person wouldn't have any idea about.

      • +3

        Glad you enjoyed it.

      • +3

        Yeah it was, i hope he tells us another one

      • +6

        What if that wasn't sarcasm? lol

    • certain individuals who were bullied in school also like to become police "to make them pay"

    • -1

      They have guns, and we don't. If they don't like you, they can frame you for a crime, or just execute you & claim self-defence.

      The police, along with financial institutions, are the corner stone of the nanny state. Politicians can pass all the legislation they like, but without police and banks supporting them, their legislation is toothless. Police (+ the military) have a monopoly on the use of force; they can use force against you, but it is illegal to fight back and use force against them.

      As Jefferson said, :“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have.”

      • -3

        crooked cops on the beat. all the faries who believe the world is a wholesome place are negging us. we know the truth however. neg away :)

        • +2

          all the faries

          As in Rastafarian?

        • +4

          Standard thoughts of people who coicindentally always seeem to run into trouble with the police.

      • +1

        As Jefferson said, :“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have.”

        Which Jefferson was that?

        Not Thomas Jefferson apparently https://www.businessinsider.com/thomas-jefferson-quotes-that…

      • +1

        Because the world would be so much better if everybody was armed and could shoot other people every time they got Butt-Hurt. I'll take the minor inconvenience of a breath test over having to live in Mad Max anarchy ruled by gun toting lunatics happy to shoot back if they think they arent being listened to or imagine they're being offended etc.

      • +3

        Look at all of your downvotes. People in this society genuinely prefer a dog collar over personal responsibility for their safety. Sadly, in our society we have the dog collar but the police don't provide any safety.

      • They have guns, and we don't.

        We can also have guns apparently, otherwise what's with all those drug raids with the people being raided who somehow have guns on them??

  • +24

    Highway Patrol

    Say no more…

    • +2

      OP should read [AMA] I Am a Victoria Police Officer - Ask Me Anything

      https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/313150

      • -1

        Didn't have to read that. Have a few mates who are in/were in the police force.

        I hear enough.

  • -3

    If you drive a 20 year old car, it's more likely to be unsafe and unroadworthy than a new car. There's plenty of empirical evidence to suggest that. As a driver, I wouldn't want the police doing purely random checks, but checks which target those cars which are more likely to cause accidents.

    The fact you don't notice nice cars being pulled over might be based on where you live, but also just observational bias.

    Everyone can have a shit attitude in their jobs, and it's never pleasant to experience people who have a bad attitude, but you don't know whether the person is just having a bad day or going through some troubles in their life and woke up on the wrong side of bed.

    • +1

      Yeah, that's cool, totally understand people have shit days. I've worked in retail long enough to not take things to heart. The only thing that concerns me here is the power imbalance between police and citizens. If they unfairly alleged I did something it would ultimately come down to he says she says. Odds aren't in your favour, I'd imagine.

      • -1

        They did their checks and sent you on your way, you seem to be making up scenarios that never happened. What if they shot you/slashed your tires gave you $50. Could happen by anyone to anyone anytime.

        Paid for my groceries at woolies today, what if the cashier pulled a gun on me, rather than just giving me my change and wishing me a nice day. Do they now have too much power?

        • +2

          Yep because cashiers have laws that give them the right to stop anyone at anytime, anywhere. Solid analogy.

    • Police don’t give a shit about car roadworthiness. You’re talking about a car from around 1999, hardly a bomb (except to those people who have to buy a new car every three years).

      • +1

        What about early 20's investment bankers who buy BMWs as a High Yield Investment?

  • +3

    I’d say it’s your car. I used to get pulled over in my first car which was old.

    • Yeah also used to get pulled over a lot with an older car.

    • Agreed. Very likely its the car. I've seen some blatant road worthiness violations among folk driving old cars. Unsecured tailpipe, single functioning headlight, broken tail-lights (actually smashed), no mirrors in the side mirror "cases"(?), absolutely bald AF tires (couldn't see ANY treads).

      So perhaps they were making sure there were no obvious issues that are a more likely with a really old car.

    • Literally never got pulled over in my first car which was 20 or so years old when i got it. was driving that thing till recently when it died which was about 10 years. I also used to do shift work so it was out and about at all hours of the night

    • I used to get stopped frequently in my 80s model celica (was on my Ps some of that time), and then never in my late 90s corolla, not even once. I had the corolla for twice as long, too.

  • +2

    In this situation the police can only ask to see your license, your name and address. You are not under any legal obligation to answer any other questions. If you don't want to answer any personal questions simply say no comment.

    • +7

      They'll probably perceive it as a slight and try really hard to get you on something.

        • +3

          HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA nice…..everyone do this guys! ☺

        • +4

          That “are you detaining me” line comes from the US: where you have Miranda rights, ie the right to remain silent, and a cop can’t detain you without a warrant for your arrest. We DO NOT have those rights in Australia. If an officer wants to detain you they can, and if an officer asks you a question, you may be obligated to answer. “Are you detaining me” might confuse them, but ultimately, if they want, the simple answer is “well duh. I stopped your car. You are not free to go until I’m satisfied.” So be careful mouthing that one off if you get the wrong cop.

          • @haemolysis: Completely false. I'm doing just fine doing it my way. You better check the law regarding police power in your state.

            • @armdrags: FYI the law in WA is that police can pull you over and test your car for however long they like and even take it for a spin. They have the right to take your keys. You don't necessarily have to answer any questions apart from ID unless obligated under proceeds of crime pursuant to the CIA.

              So you can try that here but you'll likely get pinned for obstructing an officer. S172 CRC I believe.

              • @Joxer: The police can only arrest and detain if they suspect someone of committing a crime. They must release a citizen immediately if they decide not to charge them. They have no right to take the car for a spin. Show me what act allow them to do that?

          • @haemolysis: Why do I have to be careful? Is being careful in what I say protect me from the law if I've done nothing against the law?

          • -1

            @haemolysis: We are not talking about being arrested here. I am talking about dealing with the police not what to do when under arrest. Police can only detain and arrest if they suspect someone of committing a crime. If they don't allow me to go then that means I'm being detained and I'm just going to say the same thing. They had to let me go otherwise because they can't find anything to charge me with.

            • @armdrags: How to get arrested 101.

              You can be detained by Police without being under arrest. Being detained can mean being stopped by Police for the purpose of the exercise of a power under an Act (Road Transport Act or LEPRA, most likely if you're on the road). So no, you are not currently under arrest, however, should you leave or attempt to leave, then you would be arrested and earn some charges instead of a ticket you may or may not have initially received.

          • @haemolysis: Star Chambers for the win.

        • It’s not YouTube

        • +3

          I've always found 'Sovereign Citizen' types to be very strange and sanctimonious. My strategy is to not doing anything wrong and I've always found my interactions with police to be extremely pleasant. Try and make their job easier instead of harder and pi$$ing them off.

        • +31

          They asked if I have any mental impairment/disability in order to detain me. That's one trick that they can use

          LMAO, are you sure it was a trick and not just a genuine question?

          • -1

            @owli: Do you have a mental impairment/disability mate? This is my genuine question to you not a trick one.

            • +3

              @armdrags: It was probably your tin foil hat that prompted the question.

      • +2

        From what I read online, there are a lot of things we can do but it'll probably just infuriate them so don't. I'll definitely ask for name, rank and police station next time.

        • They can give you their number, not name.

  • +2

    OP could you post a pic of your car (license blurred)?

    • +4

      Will do, stay tuned (probably tomorrow).

      • +1

        👍

        • +5

          voila https://imgur.com/a/JdWEIfS

          Apologies for the primary school Microsoft paint editing. Reckon it looks unroadworthy potential?

          • +2

            @jesho: Does not look like it should attract attention as being potentially unroadworthy.

          • +3

            @jesho: Wow I am surprised if that car gets too much attention. Old but looks uneventful to me.

          • @jesho: @jesho The cop might have suspected you were a P plater without plates up, based on the age of the car. (Penalties for not displaying Ps are pretty harsh)
            I've always driven old cars (ones that actually look bad) but have never had the police inspect the vehicle when they've pulled me over.

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