eBay Sale. Damaged in Transit. Buyer Requests Refund. Please Advise

skjaus2015 on 13/02/2019 - 10:46
Last edited 13/02/2019 - 11:20 by 1 other user

Hi Friends.

I sold an item on ebay and sent the item via Sendle. The item was a small retro TV and the item top and base was completely damaged by the courier, though the item was properly packed with good amount of bubble wrap and foam.

I approached Sendle and they said they don't have any insurance against the item if the item gets damaged.

The buyer acknowledged its not my fault and its the courier ( Courier Please) who has damaged the item. I asked the buyer to contact ACCC which he did but they then asked him to contact NSW Fair trading. The buyer now reluctant to pursue further and has asked ebay for refund.

Where do I stand ?

  1. Shall I ask ebay to step in as it's not my fault?
  2. Bite the bullet and be out of pocket for $250 (including postage)
  3. Take back the item and then pursue Fair trading company.

Please advise.

General Discussion

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Comments

  • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 10:50
    +32

    You're responsible for getting the item to the buyer.

    If the item is damaged before it gets to the buyer, that's your responsibility regardless if you damaged the item or not.

    You can make a claim against Sendle, but usually that's why you buy insurance for.

    • Hybroid on 13/02/2019 - 12:46

      Fully agreed.

      Shall I ask ebay to step in as it's not my fault?

      Nope, for all intents and purposes, this is seen as your 'fault'/liability.

      Bite the bullet and be out of pocket for $250 (including postage)

      Did you take out courier insurance for the item or not? If not, lesson learnt.

      Take back the item and then pursue Fair trading company.

      For what exactly? You either insured it and are covered or not.

      • Randxyz123 on 13/02/2019 - 15:26

        Agreed with this.

        OP, $250 is not a low value item. A bit late now but most courier companies offer insurance for this reason.

        I asked the buyer to contact ACCC which he did but they then asked him to contact NSW Fair trading.

        Nothing to do with ACCC or fair trading. It will be in the terms of service for sendle. Buy insurance or accept the risk.

        The buyer now reluctant to pursue further and has asked ebay for refund.

        Which they are allowed to do.

        For all intensive purposes it’s “your fault”. It isn’t really but you need to give the buyer a refund. Then go after couriers please.

        Edit: I found this in about 30 seconds https://support.sendle.com/hc/en-us/articles/205204738-What-…

        You’ll be down $100

        • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 16:00
          +6

          For all intensive purposes

          *intents and purposes.

        • Noblejoker on 14/02/2019 - 12:46
          +1

          Good googling but you misread - doesn't cover dmaged parcels - just lost ones

          Damaged insurance
          It is important to know that Sendle's insurance policy cannot cover damaged parcels.
          If you require insurance for damaged items, you can arrange this separately

  • 87percent on 13/02/2019 - 10:57
    +5

    you're screwed.. unless you can prove that Sendle wrecked it, looks like you learnt yourself an expensive lesson

    • skjaus2015 on 13/02/2019 - 11:05

      I have pictures of the item before I posted and then the buyer posted the pictures of the item which got damaged from top and bottom by the courier

      • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 11:14
        +2

        It is circumstantial evidence. For a low value item, it is insufficient evidence to waste any judicial system's time to weigh the evidence.

        It will be much cheaper for everyone involved (yourself included) if you absorb the $250 as lesson learnt.

        It is not the buyer's prerogative to chase a refund from anyone else other than you (or the party that is holding the funds on your behalf).

        • skjaus2015 on 13/02/2019 - 11:23
          +3

          Slightly differ on this. I think $250 is not a low value item. If as consumers we not be proactive, these courier companies will get away with this.
          Based on HIghandDry comments, I agree the sale is between the buyer and seller. I may pursue case against the courier please. Anyway I am without a job so have time on my hand.

          • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 11:56
            +1

            @skjaus2015: If your time cannot be better spent elsewhere, go ahead. If the courier company's assigned customer liaison may refund you the cost of shipping if they deem it too much trouble to argue with you.

            You're unlikely to get $250 because your item is categorically uninsured.

            • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 12:07
              +1

              @[Deactivated]: Yeah. Against OP is the fact that this is too little an amount to consider legal action, and almost impossible to prove any specific negligence on the courier's part to succeed even then.

              In OP's favour is the fact that they have apparently unlimited time, and that they're not actually claiming that much if they'd be happy with even $100 in compensation.

              • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 12:11

                @HighAndDry: Squeeky wheel gets the grease.

                Or something like that.

                • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 12:15
                  -1

                  @[Deactivated]: It's unfortunately (or fortunately in OP's case) true. And OP has the time to be an infinitely squeaky wheel.

          • SlickMick on 14/02/2019 - 22:06

            @skjaus2015: I totally agree with you.
            The courier should have insurance to cover them if they damage someone's property. Other businesses need to have insurance - why not couriers?
            Why should we have to have insurance against their incompetence? It takes all responsibility away from them.

  • dasher86 on 13/02/2019 - 11:00
    +9

    The buyer has a contract with you for the goods, 100% you are liable.

    • skjaus2015 on 13/02/2019 - 11:06
      +2

      Agreed. but what about the role of Courier companies , they also have the responsibility of delivering the goods safely besides just taking the money to carry the goods from one place to another

      • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 11:15
        +9

        The sale contract is between you and the buyer. You arranged for delivery (buyer paid for delivery) so you're responsible for delivery.

        As between you and the buyer, the buyer is entitled to a refund because the goods arrived damaged.

        You can make a claim against Sendle or the courier company, but that's between you and them - it doesn't involve the buyer.

      • dasher86 on 13/02/2019 - 12:20

        Did you read the t & c's of the contract you had with the Courier company?

      • SirFlibbled on 13/02/2019 - 16:08

        It depends on your contract. Each party cannot contract out of negligent acts but they can seek indemnification. So if the contract says that you indemnify them for any loss or damage then you're unable to go after them. if the have an indemnification to another party you'd know who to go after then.

        But the agreement between you and the buyer is separate. You need to make good with them first (your damages) before you can possibly go after the courier. And for $250 if it's even worth the effort.

  • dcep on 13/02/2019 - 11:03
    +5

    Damaged insurance
    It is important to know that Sendle's insurance policy cannot cover damaged parcels. If you require insurance for damaged items, you can arrange this separately.
    Please ensure that your parcels are packaged securely.
    https://support.sendle.com/hc/en-us/articles/205952567-Insur…

    Sendle does not offer compensation or insurance for damaged parcels. It is the responsibility of the sender to make sure the parcel is appropriately packaged.
    https://support.sendle.com/hc/en-us/articles/206034447

    • Baysew on 13/02/2019 - 11:18
      +1

      Free insurance All parcels insured for loss up to $1500 with $100 excess.

      Sounds like that the parcel is insured, but actually only if it is lost

      you can arrange this separately.

      But no option to do this with Sendle?

      • SlickMick on 14/02/2019 - 22:11

        what a joke:
        How often do we lose stuff? Almost never? We'll cover that then.
        How often do we damage stuff? All the time? Okay, we won't cover that.

        • Tiggrrrrr on 25/02/2019 - 13:07

          Exactly, a joke.

          I had a courier company (apparently) leave my parcel on my porch, in full view of the road.
          Surprise, it wasn't there when I arrived home. What was there was a slip from the courier company stating I was not home for delivery.
          So I rang them the next day to ask when/where I could collect my parcel; and they told me it was left on my porch. I had not given an authorisation for parcel to be left unattended, and the courier simply replied it was standard policy.

          From memory, the seller refunded the money, despite the courier having a similar policy for lost parcels.

    • 87percent on 13/02/2019 - 12:44
      +3

      but on a side note, for a delivery company NOT to offer insurance is a GINORMOUS red flag.. I would NEVER use Sendle

      • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 12:47

        Offer it or provide it by default? Any insurance would be via a third-party insurer anyway, and even Auspost doesn't include insurance by default. Not defending Sendle though - it seems they're kind of like Uber for deliveries from what (little) I've read on them.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 11:08
    +1

    First, fix the title
    eBay sale. Damaged in transit. Buyer requests refund. Please advise.

    Edit - fixed as I posted. Makes sense now.

    • skjaus2015 on 13/02/2019 - 11:15
      +1

      Good title. to the point.

  • thedriver on 13/02/2019 - 11:23
    +6

    Everyone else is spot on that you're responsible to the buyer and have to refund them.

    However, if you can't afford the loss, I'd consider trying to make a claim against Sendle though NSW Fair Trading.
    Just because Sendle have terms about insurance, it doesn't necessarily mean they are valid or legal. They still have an obligation to provide you the service with due care. You don't purchase additional insurance with any other service provider, because they're expected to provide that service with due care.

    • skjaus2015 on 13/02/2019 - 11:26
      +1

      Fully agreed. Exactly my point i made against Tshow comments.

    • one man clan on 13/02/2019 - 14:08
      +1

      Yes I find these comments confusing. I have to admit I'm not familiar with this area but surely sendle still have an obligation to deliver the product without destroying it? Just because they don't offer insurance doesn't mean that obligation doesn't exist. They haven't completed their side of the contract between OP and them - that is to deliver the item in functional order.

      • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 14:33
        +2

        Technically - and absent contractual provisions to the contrary - the courier is obligated to "take reasonable care". Which is why it'd be hard for OP to win in any actual legal action because he'll have to show, not just that the item is damaged (which is easy) but that it was damaged due to the courier being negligent, intentionally destroying it, or otherwise not taking that "reasonable care".

    • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 15:15

      Most certainly the courier has a duty of care to deliver the parcel without causing any unreasonable damage.

      If it can be proven that the courier mishandled the parcel I would be unequivocally encouraging OP to pursue the matter further otherwise it is just circumstantial evidence.

      In the absence of conclusive proof, it would be resolved if OP had insurance. In the absence of insurance and proof, the scraps of evidence can be deliberated upon to assign liability. It is an expensive process and it can end up being a further financial liability to OP.

      • Chandler on 14/02/2019 - 11:00
        +1

        Thank you.

        I was getting tired of everyone telling OP it's their responsibility to get insurance. Whilst insurance is a good idea, it's there as a safety net, much like purchasing extended warranties, to ease the process of claiming against the service provider.

        When I buy "extended warranty", it's knowing that I'm basically paying to prevent the argument that it's not under warranty, as you could easily argue that if they offer an extended warranty for x years then as per ACL it would be reasonable to expect said product to last that long (it doesn't suddenly last longer because you paid for extended warranty).

        When you buy insurance (especially in this case with shipping), you're paying so that the carrier doesn't argue about liability in the case of a claim.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 11:27

    ebay doesn't care about smalltime sellers. Work back from there.

    Ask the buyer if a partial refund is possible and be as constructive as possible as you are at their mercy.

  • JCrown9 on 13/02/2019 - 11:27
    +1

    get the item back.
    your in a no win situation with sendle. (i use them alot), and its frustrating with claims. and the $100 excess on all claims makes it pointless (unless very high valued item).

    Just get the item back, wear the loss of postage. and if your a business selling the item, re-package it and send it more secure next time. if its a personal item. at-least you get it back and can plan your next move after.

    • skjaus2015 on 13/02/2019 - 11:30

      the item is literally in a no-sale position. If I can post the pictures ,its clearly the courier fault. Sold for $200, if I can get back $100 from Sendle , I am happy with that. Something is better than nothing !!

      • JCrown9 on 13/02/2019 - 11:31

        good luck :)

  • bazingaa on 13/02/2019 - 11:49

    Is that TV in functional condition? May be you can discuss with the buyer for partial refund, it will be a win-win situation and save a lot of time and hassle for you

    • skjaus2015 on 13/02/2019 - 12:01

      Good point. will check with buyer if he is interested in partial refund.

      • SnoozeAndLose on 13/02/2019 - 12:22

        At the end of the day i think it will be lose lose for you. Juat treat it as lesson learn

  • AdamFury on 13/02/2019 - 12:22
    +3

    To be honest if I'm the buyer I'm opening a claim straight away and getting my money back. Everything else is the sellers problem.

    • berger on 25/02/2019 - 09:18

      you would open claim straight away without discussing with seller first?

      • AdamFury on 25/02/2019 - 10:21

        I'd let them know what has happened to see their response but I would't be doing any mucking around. Case open immediately after an unsatisfactory response such as 'contact the accc'.

  • Ocker on 13/02/2019 - 13:27

    Either you voluntarily refund the buyer 100% - or eBay will step in and refund the buyer anyway.

    Obtaining compensation for the damage is an entirely separate issue

  • trustnoone on 13/02/2019 - 14:37

    Basically you have an agreement with the customer that for $x they will receive the item exactly as described. Unfortunately that did not happen with you breaking the agreement, the reason why this happened (courier) doesn't matter unfortunately agreement is broken.

    You should however be attempting to get that cost back from the courier because they agreed to deliver it to the person without damaging the item which is not the case. Unfortunately the reality is the courier (or sendle) probably has a way more advanced legal team that likely created a terms of service lifting them away from all damage cost issues and taking on no responsibilities. Likely something you automatically agree with by using the service.

    Sucks I know, but you may be able to get something back just by pushing it enough.

  • kolorijo on 13/02/2019 - 14:40

    This is why I only sell my items through FB market or Gumtree.

  • triviums on 13/02/2019 - 15:10

    Technically sendle should be able to cover damaged items since courier please provides complementary insurance which covers damaged done during shipping

    https://www.couriersplease.com.au/service-insurance

    However, it is possible that sendle and courier please have some sort of agreement that excludes insurance or something like that…

    • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 15:19
      +1

      Couriers Please is not contractually bound to OP, only Sendle is. Couriers Please's T&Cs are not applicable.

      • triviums on 13/02/2019 - 15:21

        I am aware of that, I was just point out that technically sendle could cover damaged items if they wanted to (unless they have some sort of agreement with courier please that excludes it)

        • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 15:23
          +2

          The agreement between Sendle and Couriers Please would not be as a consumer and provider, it would be as a wholesaler. The agreement would undoubtedly be tailored and confidential.

    • Baysew on 13/02/2019 - 15:21

      The cost of insurance would most likely be stripped out of the price CouriersPlease charge Sendle. OP's contract is with Sendle.

      • triviums on 13/02/2019 - 15:23

        exactly what I said in the last sentence…

  • eqv on 13/02/2019 - 15:52

    Wouldn't a courier company have a duty of care to at least make sure that they don't handle parcels in a rough manner that would cause damage to them? If the damage is due to the courier company's negligence, then you should have a case against them. Fair Trading NSW should be the way to go for this (between the seller and the courier).

    • SirFlibbled on 13/02/2019 - 16:10

      Ye but it comes down to the indemnification clause who has liability for their negligence.

      • eqv on 14/02/2019 - 15:18

        They can't indemnity themselves if it's in contradiction with the required law.

        From Fair Trading NSW:

        Guarantees on services
        Services must:

        be provided with acceptable care and skill or technical knowledge and taking all necessary steps to avoid loss and damage
        .
        .

        • SirFlibbled on 15/02/2019 - 22:55

          You can indemnify them though. Happens in many contracts I've reviewed because it's not a denial of liability but liability being handed to someone else.

    • pais on 13/02/2019 - 20:52

      They're not a common carrier, so you would actually have to provide evidence of negligence and not just show a photo of the damaged goods at the receiver.

      Bottom line is that OP is SOL.

      • eqv on 14/02/2019 - 15:19

        Agree, you do have to be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the negligence is on the courier.

        • SirFlibbled on 15/02/2019 - 22:53

          No you don't. You need to show balance of probabilities.

          • eqv on 16/02/2019 - 00:15

            @SirFlibbled: Yep, you're actually right.

            https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2016Q00058/Html/Text…

            1. Burden of proof
              In determining liability for negligence, the plaintiff always bears the burden of proving, on the balance of probabilities, any fact relevant to the issue of causation.
            • SirFlibbled on 16/02/2019 - 09:44

              @eqv: It's a simple rule. Criminal cases are beyond reasonable doubt. Civil cases (including civil penalties which are a hybrid) are balance of probabilities (more likely than not).

  • plowry1977 on 14/02/2019 - 14:15
    +1

    Thanks for heads up to avoid sendle, when paying for insurance, would expect to be covered for damage

    • lachhelix on 24/02/2019 - 12:25

      Same here, glad I read this and luckily didn't use their service least week!

  • eggles01 on 14/02/2019 - 21:05

    Contact the Dept of Fair Trading or some states call in "Consumers Affairs"if you are in NSW it is Fair Trading,tell them what your problem is and see what they reply,if it is beyond Fair Trading they will refer you to the right people to contact,cheers

  • eggles01 on 14/02/2019 - 21:14
    -1

    I just had a quick look at Spendle's web page and according to the site they do have free insurance,have a look at their website to see what they say,

    • Nousernamehere on 17/02/2019 - 16:28
      +1

      I just had a quick look at Spendle's web page and according to the site they do have free insurance

      As pointed out a number of times already in this thread.

      Sendle includes insurance for loss on all eligible parcels for no extra charge.

      Sendle will cover the cost price of replacing lost goods up to the policy limits $1500 (this does not include GST). An excess of $100 applies to each claim.

      Damaged insurance

      It is important to know that Sendle's insurance policy cannot cover damaged parcels. If you require insurance for damaged items, you can arrange this separately.

  • eggles01 on 15/02/2019 - 02:41

    It is your problem as you were the one who employed Sendle to deliver the item for you,you must return the buyers payment and you request he sends it back all the costs are born to you and you make a claim to Sendle for all your costs including the return postage/shipping costs,
    apologies for including a P in Sendle in my previous 2 comments

  • godofpizza on 15/02/2019 - 09:01

    OP, did the buyer request for the item to be delivered to them? did you organised that on their behalf?

    • Baysew on 15/02/2019 - 12:50

      It was an eBay sale, so part and parcel of sale.

  • Micko179 on 16/02/2019 - 05:18

    You used Sendle? You DIDN'T get insurance?! Right… NEXT!

    • xmchen on 16/02/2019 - 21:33

      What's wrong with Sendle? Sendle does not deliver the parcel, they outsourcing to Courier Please, Fastway and etc. I use Sendle a lot and only had one accident( which proved Courier Please made mistakes.
      I do agree OP should have got insurance for a $250 item with any couier.

  • PuppieWayne on 17/02/2019 - 18:37

    Why is it the sellers responsibility to get insurance? At the postage and handling page, doesn't it ask the seller if they want insurance with the item?

    If I recall, that's how all my purchase from eBay been and if the buyer op out, Gail to see how that's the sellers problem.

    • Ughhh on 25/02/2019 - 09:49

      Because whether you like our or not, buyers can claim not as described via paypal, forcing a refund. You as a seller, is in your best to insure a situation like this doesn't happen, and if it does, you're covered money wise.

      Basically, the insurance is to benefit seller more than buyer.

  • Tiggrrrrr on 25/02/2019 - 15:06

    Did the buyer offer to send the item back? Also what is the extent of the damage? Is it just cosmetic? Or does it effect functionality?

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