Clueless at 25

uAware on 18/02/2019 - 10:24
Last edited 23/02/2019 - 17:25

Hi guys, have a dilemna which has been lingering on for years, i'm 25 and reality has set in. Have a partner and want to move out/buy a house etc but unfortunately my career is at a deadend. I've been working full time at places since 18 but never nailed down a career path.
Did half of an accounting degree and a cert 3 in business admin and worked in accounts/admin for about 5+ years and didn't really enjoy it so took a leap and jumped to IT. I'm doing level 1 support at the moment and making around 60k a year albeit casual/contract so no leave entitlements. Have worked for a bit over a year doing it however enjoying it even less.
So at the moment i'm trying to decide what to do, ideally a desk job where i can work my way up without a uni degree. I'm good at picking things up and have worked at a variety of industries so experience not an issue.
Either that or i can suck it up and just try get some qualifications/certificates for IT. Ideally i want to make about 70k within a couple of years.

Any tertiary/extra education i'd need to get i also would need to complete it online also.

Education & Work Information Technology

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  • HighAndDry on 18/02/2019 - 10:56

    Two main points:

    1. Decide what area you want to stay in - IT is probably easier without a uni degree.

    2. Rid yourself of any notions that you'll necessarily "enjoy" your work - it's a job, not a hobby.

    Go from there, but take heart - 25 is so young, you could probably start in a completely new field and be completely fine.

    Edit: Just to add to/address some of the points raised by others: Unless absolutely necessary, I wouldn't start any degree or other course until you've found a job and it's required for that job. You should have enough experience to get into an entry-level position, or at least talk to recruiters/managers in the positions you're interested in. Do that first, then tailor your education to match the needs of the position/career-progression you're aiming for.

    • 34
    • Cyphar on 20/02/2019 - 17:47

      IT is probably easier without a uni degree.

      But it's so important to keep your skills relevant via certification. More so than many other industries.

      • 3
    • geoffs87 on 20/02/2019 - 11:27

      Yep!

      I was 27 when i did my MBA, and 29 when i switched into a completely different role in a completely different field. 25 is far from "too late"!

      • 2
    • ribze1 on 19/02/2019 - 20:08

      Agree.
      I thought doing a MBA would be good then i could see plenty of people high up in my company don't have one so why should i?

      • 0
      • brandito on 19/02/2019 - 11:43

        I'm a millennial and I work in web development and enjoy what I do? I just find this comment very contradictory..

        • 8
      • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2019 - 19:19

        There's nothing fun about a boring pen pushing role. Fun means different things to all.

        I don't think it's some sort of 'millennial curse' to want a job that is stimulating and does not drive you insane.

        • 4
      • Serapis on 20/02/2019 - 09:52

        I'm a millennial and worked in public service for a regulator, it wasn't easy nor just bureaucratic pen pushing (worked outside regular hours and weekends - not for the department but rather my own beliefs and felt i owed a duty to the people i was assisting). I loved my role since i helped people and could see my impact directly.

        Instead of easy going jobs, i think you'll find that a lot of us are seeking engagement (a job which relates to cause important to us) and presents challenges.

        IMO those industries you mentioned actually need to change to better engage workers, we're not interested not because we're lazy but rather because they're stuck in the past.

        • 4
      • cantoangel on 20/02/2019 - 17:36

        Not everyone is a pencil pusher in the public service. If you haven't been in the public service then you have no idea, and if you have, then SHAME ON YOU as clearly you've given it a bad name.

        • 2
      • Rohangiga on 19/02/2019 - 23:49

        I work hard and not every moment is "fun" but overall i love my job (mechanical engineer). But I do feel I got a bit lucky with my job and workplace and many other places I would not enjoy as much, let alone other industries

        • 0
      • Gauntlet on 20/02/2019 - 23:02

        Now when you say "aren't too many…"

        • 0
  • bobbified on 18/02/2019 - 11:33

    I've been working full time at places since 18 but never nailed down a career path.
    Did half of an accounting degree and a cert 3 in business admin and worked in accounts/admin for about 5+ years and didn't really enjoy it so took a leap and jumped to IT.
    Have worked for a bit over a year doing it however enjoying it even less.

    I don't want to sound harsh, but if you're looking for easy money, easy promotions or expecting a high-paying job to land in your lap, it's not going to happen.

    The impression I get when I read your post is, you seem to give up as soon as you something seems difficult or you don't like it. Thing is, nothing is going to come if you don't put effort into it. If you want that money, make the most of whatever you've got. Work is work and there isn't always going to be a job that you "like". It is more about picking the one you "dislike" the least.

    Apart from high school, I had no other qualifications. I kept getting told that I'd never find a job without a uni degree. I landed a job within a few days without any friend connections, etc (it was data entry at an insuranc company!) and although I didn't enjoy it, I still tried to do the best I could. In the early years, I took every opportunity I had with the mentality that everyone has to start somewhere.

    The other driving factor for me has been that fact that I'm a dude. The thought that one day I would have to support my own family was a big one. Despite all that shit about gender equality, etc, girls still expect guys to provide some level of financial "security". And that is the reality of it. I saw my early years as a chance to build all that up so long hours, shit job, etc didn't bother me. My end goal was to get as far as I could while I still had time.

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    • JimmyF on 18/02/2019 - 14:24

      but if you're looking for easy money, easy promotions or expecting a high-paying job to land in your lap, it's not going to happen.

      Bingo!

      Two half completed courses, change of career, now thinking of changing again.

      OP just wants to do little work with max returns.

      • 3
      • StevenUniverse on 18/02/2019 - 20:30

        If you could do little work with maximum returns, then why wouldn't you?

        • 3
        • bobbified on 18/02/2019 - 23:45

          If you could do little work with maximum returns, then why wouldn't you?

          … except it doesn't work that way!

          • 0
          • Nick939 on 19/02/2019 - 02:01

            @bobbified: In my opinion it doesn’t hurt to have a mindset where one aims for maximum returns for the least amount effort.

            • 2
            • bobbified on 19/02/2019 - 08:58

              @Nick939:

              In my opinion it doesn’t hurt to have a mindset where one aims for maximum returns for the least amount effort

              I don't disagree at all. I've always believed it's about working smart, not working hard. But clearly, OP isn't experienced enough to be able to do that. Most people would work hard at the start, figure out how it all works, then make the most of their earlier efforts.

              The other problem is, the expected return is way out of proportion. Remember that the definition of "hard work" is relative to reach person.

              • 0
              • Nick939 on 19/02/2019 - 13:21

                @bobbified: I agree in most cases, especially this scenario, the OP needs to put in the hard work to achieve their goals. I guess the problem arises where people can't distinguish between putting in hard work to achieve their goals and the mindset of max returns for minimal effort.

                • 1
        • JimmyF on 18/02/2019 - 21:08

          self worth for one, doesn't interest me sitting around doing nothing all day is another.

          I enjoy my field of work, I enjoy going to work.

          Do you?

          • -2
          • StevenUniverse on 18/02/2019 - 22:52

            @JimmyF: Just to clarify, when I say 'little work, maximum returns' I am more so implying why do more than I have to. e.g. If I can do all my assigned work for that day in 5-6 hours to a more than satisfactory standard, why would I work an extra 2?

            I don't think doing more work than one is required to equates to self worth. To me that seems like I would be placing too much importance on something where at the end of the day I'm just a cog — and all cogs are replaceable.

            But yes, I enjoy my field of work, and I enjoy going to it.

            • 3
          • Nick939 on 19/02/2019 - 01:59

            @JimmyF: I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that mindset of “little work for maximum returns”.

            Why focus in on working? Think of it more like having more time to do the things you enjoy. (For you it may be work, but definitely not everyone).

            • 0
            • JimmyF on 19/02/2019 - 09:09

              @Nick939:

              I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that mindset of “little work for maximum returns”.

              Sure, but in the real world, those two conflict.

              Jobs that require little work and maximum returns ($100k+), are normally highly skilled or niche jobs.

              To get those jobs you need to have worked 'hard' for many years learning about the field.

              I do a specialised field of work, I'm paid very well for it. Its not a job you can just walk into, as it needs a endless amount of knowledge thats taken me 20 years of work in my field to learn.

              See now why those two conflict?

              If I took the little work path, then I wouldn't be in the job I am today, earning $100k less than I do now!

              • 0
              • Nick939 on 19/02/2019 - 13:10

                @JimmyF: I agree with your points. I suppose people make different choices on how they approach their careers and this is what justifies the pay gaps between skilled workers and non skilled workers.

                • 0
                • JimmyF on 19/02/2019 - 13:20

                  @Nick939:

                  I suppose people make different choices on how they approach their careers and this is what justifies the pay gaps between skilled workers and non skilled workers.

                  Yes people do. The OP has made choices but still wants a $60-80k year job with no degree, no courses completed and a patchy work ethic.

                  To be honest, the real world isn't going to deliver this to them, and then they'll be depressed that all the baby boomers took all the good jobs away from them.

                  I'm mid life, inbetween both camps. I worked hard, I learned lots, I'm now enjoying those rewards and will for a long time to come, as people younger than me don't seem to want to put the hard yards in to get jobs like mine. So I'm not complaining :)

                  You can't work as a retail assitance all your 20s and then expect to be CEO of the company in your 30s is what I'm saying ;)

                  • 0
                  • Starlight8 on 19/02/2019 - 13:28

                    @JimmyF: Agreed with you.

                    You need a good level of education and experience to earn the big bucks.

                    You need to invest in both to live comfortably in the future.

                    Even with a degree it doesn't make a lot of difference but when there is a pool of people applying for the same job, it gives you some leverage.

                    You are still young, you can afford to study.

                    People these days need to get additional education on top of their university degree to earn more bucks or stay relevant in their field.

                    OP needs to toughen up and follow thru.

                    • 1
              • mavis30551 on 20/02/2019 - 13:54

                @JimmyF: So you generalise a whole generation by saying they're all lazy because they all want what you actually have by your own admission, which is a high paying job thats not that much hard work?

                Ok.

                • 0
                • JimmyF on 20/02/2019 - 22:29

                  @mavis30551: Reading isn't a strong skill for you is it?

                  I never said my job easy. I said it takes 20 years of 'learnings' to do. I said

                  I do a specialised field of work, I'm paid very well for it. Its not a job you can just walk into, as it needs a endless amount of knowledge thats taken me 20 years of work in my field to learn.

                  infact I also said

                  If I took the little work path, then I wouldn't be in the job I am today, earning $100k less than I do now!

                  You took this as 'easy'. Well I did a 75 hour work WEEK last week, if you think thats easy, then WOW.

                  generalise a whole generation by saying they're all lazy

                  Again things I never said, I did say

                  You can't work as a retail assistance all your 20s and then expect to be CEO of the company in your 30s is what I'm saying ;)

                  People wanting $80k for little work with little skills, don't exist.

                  You want good paying jobs, then you have to put some work into it.

                  But I guess you fall into the generation you think I'm generalising, so case in point.

                  • 0
      • bobbified on 18/02/2019 - 14:56

        OP just wants to do little work with max returns.

        I have to keep having this same conversation with my younger friends. Everything to them is "too hard" and "why should I do something they don't want to do?" Younger people seem to have no tolerance for anything that's not a walk in the park. It's really worrying.

        • 2
        • JimmyF on 18/02/2019 - 15:03

          Its the the instant gratification generation, they want to walk in as CEO, with zero training!

          News flash, I've gotten my current job after 20 years of 'training' doing the lower level jobs.

          They really need to try to understand they don't know everything in this world!

          • -2
          • mychips on 19/02/2019 - 10:46

            @JimmyF: You are generalizing quite a large population, that would probably be the reason for the downvotes. I am in my mid 20s and I am certain I work just as hard if not harder than you so please don't assume.

            In comparison, the previous generation had free tertiary education (I had to pay $7k in hecs debt last year, still owe $10-20k), cheaper housing prices (undeniable if you look at the house price to wage ratio).

            We also don't have a set retirement age (keeps going up, maybe we'll be 90 when we retire!) and with the serious threat of automation and climate change the future is quite grim. If you understood the perspective of the real issues facing our generation, you'd understand the bitterness too unless you're devoid of logic or empathy.

            Instant gratification has never been so rampant but has always existed. I work in finance and have seen many who purchased homes for 100-200k and now owe 400k due to constantly refinancing.

            • 15
          • bobbified on 18/02/2019 - 15:14

            @JimmyF: They've been taught that they can have everything by just kicking and screaming and then posting it on social media!

            • 1
            • JimmyF on 18/02/2019 - 15:25

              @bobbified: yes thats true…. I've got 10k followers, don't you know who I am!? Give me free things!!!

              • 4
            • JimmyF on 18/02/2019 - 21:07

              @bobbified: Can see all the instant gratification generation is out down voting. Poor little angles….

              • -5
              • beathy on 19/02/2019 - 10:11

                @JimmyF: Your generalisations would be the source of your down votes. You seem to be lumping the kids you know into the general category of all millenials. Perhaps the young people you associate with are not hard working, but this isn't an accurate representation of the coming generation(s).

                • 10
              • bobbified on 19/02/2019 - 01:18

                @JimmyF: They're getting triggered! haha

                • 0
    • HangryCakeStore on 19/02/2019 - 08:02

      Despite all that shit about gender equality, etc, girls still expect guys to provide some level of financial "security". And that is the reality of it.

      Exactly and at the same time less men are getting hired because of this!

      • 0
  • arkie0 on 18/02/2019 - 11:27

    You don't really need a degree in IT although it helps, experience > degree. I have a few IT manager friends who worked their way up starting from a cert in IT only. I've got a double in IS / CSc and they make about the same as me, at about roughly the age. I have the degree, they have +5 years experience.

    IT first level support is boring as hell since its repetitive work, but it gets more enjoyable as you move up.

    60k at level 1 support at 25 years of age is actually pretty good place to be.

    Constantly be on a look out for new jobs, 1-3 years experience in first level and you will get into second level and +10k EASY. Another 2-4 year experience in 2nd level and you can move to 3rd level with another 10k+.

    • 13
  • RandomNinja on 18/02/2019 - 10:46

    If you're certain that IT is the industry you want to build a career in, then get the qualifications

    • 10
    • orangetrain on 18/02/2019 - 21:37

      Udemy and a lot of IT courses are posted here.

      When you get some experience from it, be critical about the course content over time. Some of them are shit.

      • 1
  • nubzy on 18/02/2019 - 11:10

    I'd be looking to start a business if I were you. Develop your IT skills and go out on your own. Personally I get zero satisfaction from working for an employer. I've been self employed since graduating, I don't earn a lot but the freedom is priceless. You are still young, worth giving it a shot whilst you can.

    • 9
    • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2019 - 19:21

      What do you do? I'm struggling as well similar to OP but nowhere near IT.

      • 0
  • dcep on 18/02/2019 - 14:36

    i'm 25 and reality has set in.
    didn't really enjoy it so took a leap and jumped to IT
    Have worked for a bit over a year doing it however enjoying it even less.
    a desk job where i can work my way up without a uni degree
    i want to make about 70k within a couple of years.

    reality has not yet set in

    • 9
    • bobbified on 18/02/2019 - 15:12

      reality has not yet set in

      Reality will set in when OP's GF leaves because of constant arguments around money and wanting to move out.

      Some people will only learn after a painful experience.

      • 1
  • p1 ama on 18/02/2019 - 21:28

    I think you need to work out what you want to do. The issue is that you've been working for 7 years (18 - 25), but you've forgotten to invest in yourself. I don't mean to preach, but when you were earning a full time salary as an 18 year old, other people would have been getting by as university or TAFE students, apprentices, taking risks…etc. Basically you're just starting to pay the price now for getting into the workforce too early and doing things that don't really require any advanced skills. Hence, as others are able to move to higher paying roles, you find yourself stuck.

    First thing you need to do is to have a think about what sort of skills you have and what sort of skills you can and wish to acquire. Of course acquiring skills does not mean formal qualifications, but they are obviously a great way of showing employers that you have been through some sort of training and have some background knowledge. First thing I would do is to let whatever your current job is take a backseat. It's a dead-end, stop investing time and effort into something that's never going to return you more than your current $60k salary. Take up some kind of educational qualification, whether that be through university or TAFE.

    You say you want 70k within a couple of years. Almost all of my friends from uni back in the day managed to get $70k+ graduate roles after finishing their IT degrees. It's a really employable degree. I'm not saying that there are no options for non-university graduates, but you quite literally don't have anything to offer employers looking for an IT hire. When looking for new IT recruits, companies are usually looking for people who have 1) good business skills (i.e. to become business analysts and think about how IT solutions can address a business's needs) or 2) good technical skills (e.g. programming, databases, networking…etc. to carry out the building and maintenance of those solutions). Your IT helpdesk experience is not really all that valuable in these contexts and I wouldn't really call it relevant IT experience (just like building computers or working in a computer shop is not IT experience).

    If you do decide to go with a university course, I would strongly suggest completing a proper degree on campus. The opportunities you get from interacting with peers is invaluable and most of the early career progression I got was from networking with recruitment who regularly come to campus and conducted events. Basically, I think it's great that you are interested in IT. You need to think about whether it's the career path you want, and if you do, I think you need to commit fully to it, make the sacrifices that other people made when they were 18 and you'll reap the rewards for the rest of your life.

    • 7
    • Briefcase Mong on 19/02/2019 - 12:13

      I'm a bit stuck just like OP as well great point stating the issue I think a lot of people have gotten carried away investing in yourself especially in your younger years.

      • 0
  • star-ggg on 18/02/2019 - 20:33

    The most lucrative career path that dosen't require uni/vocational education is sales. If you have sales acumen quit your current job immediately, jump into a sales role and start racking up a track record.

    • 6
  • isthisreallife22 on 18/02/2019 - 10:41

    What type of company do you current work at?

    Is it big enough that you might be able to move around?

    • 4
  • DarthAntz on 18/02/2019 - 13:33

    I was in the same position 10 years ago, when I was 25.
    I regret staying in the position that was secure with a basic salary and good conditions.
    The risk is well worth it getting out of a deadend work environment and pursuing a job you are passionate about.
    A desk job is a low bar. As the advice above, pursue and study what you love. Aim to have your own business or a role you've created that is an essential business need that only you can do.

    • 4
    • [Deactivated] on 18/02/2019 - 14:30

      Whilst I am an advocate for the entrepreneurial spirit, I'll be the devil's advocate (or level headed adult) and caution you that taking a risk doesn't mean getting rewarded.

      Leaving a stable job may land you in a worse job or no job. Investing also comes with the risk of losing everything.

      For every success story you hear, there are ten others who keep their mouths shut out of embarrassment.

      • 11
      • DarthAntz on 18/02/2019 - 15:02

        That's why I stayed in that position until I was 31. Nothing changed in that time. I did see others leave, and either find a similar role with the same circumstances in another company, a better role, or nothing for a few months. I had 6 weeks between jobs, and I prepared for 12 weeks without work.

        You risk keeping all of the bad habits that stay with the job feelings by staying.

        So with both of our advice, do ample planning before you take any risk.

        I ended up with a job that paid less, but in an area where living expenses are lower, and overall job satisfaction much higher.

        • 1
        • Cheaplikethebird on 18/02/2019 - 15:21

          Good advice just make sure you’re signed on for the new job before handing in notice at your current one!

          • 0
      • neonlight on 19/02/2019 - 20:13

        Agree. I lost my job recently because I left my stable job. But if I didn't move in a few years time possible I will also be unemployed due to skillset not meeting what's needed on the market.

        So it's a dilemma you can't win it all!

        • 0
  • JimmyF on 18/02/2019 - 14:21

    I'm good at picking things up and have worked at a variety of industries so experience not an issue.

    Lets see, you did half of an accounting degree and a cert 3 in business admin and didn't finish like it.

    You have now pivoted to IT and now not enjoying that either.

    As an employer you're flaky, don't start what you finish and don't know what you want.

    • 4
  • trapper on 19/02/2019 - 15:48

    Man you are 25 - in the prime of your life!

    Do not stick with your dead end job, settle down, or buy a house.

    Before you turn 30 you can get a working visa in any of these countries:
    Belgium, Canada, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Republic of Ireland, Italy, Japan, Malta, Norway, South Korea, Sweden, Taiwan, The Netherlands and the United Kingdom.

    Pick one (or two, or three) and go for it.

    • 4
  • GangGang on 18/02/2019 - 11:28

    I'm turning 33 and I'm only about to finish studying in what I love doing. I wish I did it straight away after school instead of business course.

    Find what you like and go for it.

    • 3
    • pitpicker on 18/02/2019 - 23:24

      may i ask what is it that u loved doing that made you change career path?

      • 2
      • GangGang on 19/02/2019 - 06:04

        Currently in manufacturing. Decent money, 4 days a week, no stress but I
        still don't enjoy it.

        Studying horticulture, love gardening/landscaping and I can't wait to finish. Pay won't be good but at least I will enjoy my field.

        • 8
        • boostpak on 19/02/2019 - 09:46

          what type of money for 4 days a week work? and how many hour per week?

          • 1
          • GangGang on 19/02/2019 - 10:08

            @boostpak: 35 hours per week, $1,100 after tax

            I guess "decent" would have a different meaning to people.

            • 1
            • boostpak on 19/02/2019 - 10:29

              @GangGang: so nearly 41 per hour. That's pretty bloody good how old are you?

              • 0
              • GangGang on 19/02/2019 - 10:39

                @boostpak: I'm just over 36 an hour, I also recieve shift allowance of roughly $160 a week

                32 years old.

                • 0
            • boostpak on 19/02/2019 - 10:30

              @GangGang: yeah you have to do a job you enjoy, can't go week by week doing something where your brain is just mush

              • 0
          • hadronox on 19/02/2019 - 09:59

            @boostpak: i'd also like to know this too, whats the gig ganggang?

            • 0
            • GangGang on 19/02/2019 - 10:09

              @hadronox: It's in manufacturing, slowly being fazed out to labour hire & casuals.

              • 0
        • Quantumcat on 19/02/2019 - 09:05

          Possible username checks out? You may see gang gang cockatoos while outside in the gardens

          • 0
          • GangGang on 19/02/2019 - 10:05

            @Quantumcat: I couldn't stop laughing when I saw the bird at taronga zoo, Sydney.

            • 0
        • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2019 - 19:22

          I love love love horticulture too landscaping too. What will you do with your degree when you're done? I'm struggling to get myself up to go to work at my desk job atm.

          • 0
          • GangGang on 19/02/2019 - 20:42

            @[Deactivated]: Yeah I love it. I'm looking to get experience once completed. I guess the certificate is just to get into the. I will apply for a local council job for the meantime that will give me that.

            Are you thinking of studying?

            • 1
            • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2019 - 22:11

              @GangGang: Ah okay mate good luck with it all yeah?

              Umm I'm sort of in two minds… Either just say (profanity) it and go be a ranger or something like that, practice this sort of stuff first hand. Alternatively just go back to uni and try my hand at being a researcher or something, I dunno.

              • 0
  • Starlight8 on 19/02/2019 - 00:28

    No job is going to be fun, every job has its good parts and bad parts. You just need to persevere. Someone mentioned that you easily give up when times are hard. It surely sounds like it. You need to persevere in one career and work your way up. Rome was not built in a day!

    If you want a job that pays well and get to make decisions you need formal education and experience!

    I would recommend you do an Charles Stuart University as they offer distance education, perhaps you can get some exemptions for half of your accounting degree. Someone else mentioned perhaps working part time and seeing if you can delay moving out so you can save and also work towards your future by getting formal education.

    Sounds like you and your partner want to settle down soon and purchase a place. If you want to look into it, you will need to aim higher than $70k. Especially if you want to start a family and have a mortgage.

    Since you have finished half an accounting degree, why not just finish it? You have 1 year experience in It. If you can finish your degree - you can work as a systems analyst, last I heard starting salary was $80k.

    Goodluck

    • 3
  • Weezle on 19/02/2019 - 08:05

    OP I'm in the same sort of boat. Working full time on 60K working in a bank. Been out of uni for three years now. Don't really enjoy my job all that much and see it as a deadend. The job will most likely be automated within my lifetime.

    This year I've decided I'm going to become a commercial pilot, it's what I've always wanted to do. I'm 25 and can have it done within 18 months. I think just try and find what your passion is and just go for it mate. Good luck.

    • 3
  • jno on 19/02/2019 - 15:11

    its okay im 28 and clueless :) but im content with my life

    • 3
    • PAOK11 on 19/02/2019 - 21:33

      Second this. 28 and clueless, only started taking steps towards a career in the last year. Currently don't have an avenue to make my dream a reality but working on it at long last

      • 2
      • jno on 19/02/2019 - 21:53

        yeah man good luck!! ive only been hitting some strides in my life recently

        its crazy they ask what you want to do in life in primary school like as if you will even have your life together by our age haha

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  • Quantumcat on 18/02/2019 - 11:03

    Enroll in a Bachelor of Computer Science part-time at CSU doing distance education (or other uni that does distance) (just a plug cause I am in a great Discord support group for this course as an alumni). If you want to move out of home and your partner is happy to support you then drop work to part-time. It will take you around 6 years if you take 2 subjects per semester, less if you can take more but that can be hard to juggle with work, and less if you get some recognition of prior learning for some of the subjects, with what you did with your half a degree and certificate (there's at least 3 maths subjects you can probably get credit for, plus electives).

    After this, apply to graduate programs. You'll have a great chance at getting into a good one because of being more mature, and having previous working experience (more desirable than fresh-faced grads who don't know how to get along with others in a workplace). Grad programs go for around 2 years. Then you'll be promoted, probably to 70-90K. Then your career should start moving at a satisfying steady pace.

    Meanwhile, if your parents are happy for you to mooch off them for a few years more, keep saving. You should have a truly amazing house deposit by now if you've been living with your folks. If you don't, then quit spending so much money. Don't smoke, don't go out to bars all the time, etc. Focus on saving.

    Unless you can get progression in the career you're in now, or have a fantastic idea for a business and have enough savings to get it going, it is going to take longer than a few years to get to 70K. That's the price you've paid for mucking around for the last couple of years unfortunately (I was the same).

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    • Icecold5000 on 21/02/2019 - 19:49

      This idea suck ass on some many levels its not funny. A classic example of linear thinking. The OP has major responsibilities with his new family and needs a career in the shortest possible time. The best thing to do is:

      1. Finish the accounting degree with D and HD preferably online at a respetable uni e.g. Deakin
      2. Work during the day
      3. Do a significant amount of Info sys papers
      4. Try to get into Big 4 e.g. PWC, KPMG in whatever graduate program he can.
      5. See if he can make the jump into IT consultancy side of things

      Crappy desktop support gets no respect. You might need to do a vacation program in a year to ensure you get selected for the graduate intake in your final year. Start saving now to tide yourself over.

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    • Nebargains on 19/02/2019 - 07:56

      They already work in IT? What is the point of doing a degree when their foot is in the door already?

      Given they already have 1 year of experience in level 1 support it should not be too hard to change that to a permanent position with the entitlements and the same pay.

      Getting that extra 10k they are after is going to depend on their skills, attitude, the company they work for etc.

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      • Quantumcat on 19/02/2019 - 09:03

        A certificate in IT only lets you do physical networking or IT support, not software engineering, security, etc. Unless OP's ambition stops at getting to level 3 support desk (and it sounds like he wants greater things for himself), he'll need better qualifications.

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        • Nebargains on 19/02/2019 - 10:21

          As someone who has worked in IT for near 15 years with no tertiary education, I disagree.

          Security for example, a degree? Who cares, do relevant certifications on the job, paid for by your employer etc.

          No one is hiring for a security specialist and checking for a degree, they are checking for relevant certifications and experience. Maybe that means AWS certification path that finishes with security, Cisco certs, maybe certs in various firewalls (Palo etc). But again experience is king.

          To me the most important attribute in IT is people skills and a good attitude, they will get you further than a piece of paper.

          I'm not against doing a degree, I just think in this scenario it's probably not the best use of their time and money.

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          • Quantumcat on 19/02/2019 - 10:48

            @Nebargains: Experience will take a lot longer to acquire than a degree, and is harder to find. Certifications let you do manual things (how to configure networks or servers etc), not creative/thinking things. IT helpdesk is not really IT experience, it is just customer service work, like being on an Optus callcentre doesn't give you experience for being a cabling engineer. I guess it depends what OP wants to do - if he wants to do manual IT stuff then the certifications path is the way to go.

            People who want to get somewhere with no degree need to have a particular attitude - like being savvy, street smart and people smart, full of initiative, pushing against the grain and not afraid to try new things with risk of failing. These sorts of people do well at uni so they are a rare breed (usually some extenuating circumstances why they couldn't go to uni - couldn't afford it, had to stay in town to look after parents etc). I do know someone like this, he never did a degree (but did later do a masters and got in based on experience), but he is super smart and would have succeeded at whatever he chose to do. He is a senior software developer in the public service currently. I don't think this category fits OP though (or they probably would be succeeding already if they had that sort of attitude).

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          • p1 ama on 20/02/2019 - 01:48

            @Nebargains:

            To me the most important attribute in IT is people skills and a good attitude, they will get you further than a piece of paper.

            You'd think the most important attribute in IT is actually being able to do your job.

            I know plenty of people in IT who have close to zero interpersonal skills and couldn't have a social interaction even if their life depended on it. Yet they're good at what they do and they're able to do their work to a great standard.

            No one is hiring for a security specialist and checking for a degree, they are checking for relevant certifications and experience. Maybe that means AWS certification path that finishes with security, Cisco certs, maybe certs in various firewalls (Palo etc). But again experience is king.

            You're taking a very specific IT job and generalising to an entire industry. The issue with saying you work in IT is that it's about as informative as saying you work with cars. Of course, you could be an assembly line worker, a mechanic, a technician, an engineer, a product designer, a welder, a machine operator…etc. and say that you "work with cars".

            Similarly, a database admin, technician, developer, business analyst…etc. all do terribly different jobs and the importance of tertiary education varies wildly across each of those fields. Sure, if you want to be a technician installing and maintaining servers, then your Cisco certificates are the most important thing, but if you want to be a business analyst or software engineer, you've almost definitely got to have the right degree.

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          • syousef on 20/02/2019 - 05:48

            @Nebargains: Where are you working exactly? Where I am a degree is a requirement.

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          • Baghern on 20/02/2019 - 14:43

            @Nebargains: This,

            I don't work in IT, but the IT high level support people noticed that I would help others on my floor with IT.

            After a while and casual office conversation with some of them, I was taken to lunch and asked if I wanted to join IT support, starting from the bottom of course, but with prospect to their position.

            Zero IT education, just a problem solver that likes to help people.

            Didn't take it, I'm just not IT focused,

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            • p1 ama on 20/02/2019 - 19:33

              @Baghern: I think you're a bit mistaken about IT careers, helpdesk-style support is not an IT career, there is not really any progression and no real qualifications are required. This is because you're not really doing any IT work, many of my friends did IT helpdesk work when they were in uni, it's a good casual job, not a career.

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  • serpserpserp on 18/02/2019 - 12:18

    You want a desk job that you can work your way up without a degree? Go work for one of the big banks. It'll be a entry level job you'll go into, but I know people that have worked in those places that have no qualifications except for what work has made them do, and they have done very well out of it.

    Might not be as easy as it was 30 years ago, but they are still very supportive of their staff, and after awhile you can probably do a degree part time/at night on their coin.

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    • Presence on 18/02/2019 - 12:58

      Can you provide a single job advert for a position at any bank with no experience or qualifications?

      It's not 1970 anymore, it just doesn't happen.

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      • serpserpserp on 18/02/2019 - 13:22

        Call centre positions and some admin roles.

        Of course all job adverts have their preferences for experience/qualifications, but that doesn't mean the end hire has either (or they fake the experience and work hard when they get in).

        I didn't say it is something you'll just find on seek one day, apply and the job be yours by the end of the week.

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        • bobbified on 18/02/2019 - 13:41

          Call centre positions and some admin roles.

          This is exactly how one would get into a bank! The criteria hasn't changed much over the years. A good attitude and some effort is all that's required.

          The only problem with these entry-level jobs are some people think they're too good for these low-paying roles and would prefer to remain unemployed while "continue looking" for them elusvie entry-level "CEO" role.

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        • p1 ama on 19/02/2019 - 02:04

          Call centre positions and some admin roles.

          From my experience, this is becoming a less viable pathway. If you're looking to get promoted, it's much easier to get a degree, get a graduate position, move to being a senior analyst and looking at your options from there.

          Having spent time in technical roles, there's few things more despised than having middle management who are not technically minded, who don't really know anything and who are probably from these call center or admin backgrounds you're referring to. On the other hand, middle managers who have a technical background and who know the work their team does are generally more loved by their colleagues.

          Again, as per the above comment, it's not the 1970s anymore, corporate structures are becoming flatter over time and people who have no real skills apart from being able to talk a good game will find it increasingly harder to move up the way they used to be able to. Basically, it's my opinion that if you want to get promoted, you need to have the skills.

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          • serpserpserp on 19/02/2019 - 11:32

            @p1 ama:

            From my experience, this is becoming a less viable pathway.

            From my experience this is still possible. Never said easy.

            it's much easier to get a degree, get a graduate position,

            Many people on here will tell you the woes of being a graduate and not getting a graduate role in their chosen field.

            Again, as per the above comment, it's not the 1970s anymore

            Not sure why people are talking about the 1970s when I first witnessed this kind of stuff in 2008/2009 when half a technical team I was working with were from call centre/back office backgrounds while the rest of us were technically trained and qualified.

            it's my opinion that if you want to get promoted, you need to have the skills.

            Who is disputing that? What I am point out is that you can get an entry level role, skill up while in the role and move on. No one gets promoted purely on talking the talk no matter what the gossip around the office might say.

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            • p1 ama on 19/02/2019 - 19:58

              @serpserpserp:

              From my experience this is still possible. Never said easy.

              So then we agree - it's still possible, but getting harder and less viable over time as corporate structures become flatter.

              Many people on here will tell you the woes of being a graduate and not getting a graduate role in their chosen field.

              There are always going to be people who fail, you have to look at the ways that give you the best chances of success, otherwise you're just cherry picking.

              Who is disputing that? What I am point out is that you can get an entry level role, skill up while in the role and move on. No one gets promoted purely on talking the talk no matter what the gossip around the office might say.

              Yes, so you should choose the roles where you will be able to acquire skills more easily. When you're in a graduate program, you are exposed to much more and get much more mentoring so that you're able to "learn the ropes" quickly. When you become a junior, then senior, analyst, you are working directly with people who you can learn from.

              You get next to no development phone banking in a call centre. As a guy in a call centre, the aim of the company is to get you to call as many people and sign up as many people as possible. As an analyst, the aim of the company is for you to improve your technical skills so that you can do better work. Of course, I'm not disputing the fact that there are some people who might become successful and move to management roles, but it's a more difficult pathway and it's only going to get more difficult.

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              • serpserpserp on 19/02/2019 - 20:42

                @p1 ama:

                I'm not disputing the fact that there are some people who might become successful and move to management roles, but it's a more difficult pathway and it's only going to get more difficult.

                I think we might be aiming at different things for OP. They just wanted a desk job with a chance at progression with no qualifications. What I have suggested gives them just this. I'm not saying this is a path to management roles, but to be honest, becoming a manager in certain fields only requires you to be technically proficient at the thing your team does, you don't need to be widely educated to do that role and to be honest, people management roles is probably 80/20 time split between being a "manager" and all that this entails, and small part being the usage of your technical skills.

                Of course, if you change companies or industries it will be a tall ask to walk into similar roles without certain qualifications (but still not impossible, depends on who is in the seat across from you at the interview).

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        • HighAndDry on 18/02/2019 - 14:08

          Honestly since OP has IT experience, he could get a leg up and try for an entry-level IT position in a bank.

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          • serpserpserp on 18/02/2019 - 14:11

            @HighAndDry: Yep. Sounds like they literally just have to try. I think people get worked up into thinking that getting a new job is harder than it is. Sure getting a job that pays near 100k without qualifications is, but it is very easy to find entry level roles once you have any job market experience and a good attitude.

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            • isthisreallife22 on 18/02/2019 - 14:14

              @serpserpserp:

              I think people get worked up into thinking that getting a new job is harder than it is

              Totally agree. As I've experienced life, this has been one of the biggest things I've learned.

              Secret: Most people doing the hiring just want to take the easy route. Position yourself with a positive attitude and demonstrate a good work ethic and this will appeal to most

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        • uAware on 18/02/2019 - 15:44

          Thanks i've looked at bank admin roles as it seems like a good mix of what i've done before and progression seems like it's there. I was looking at any financial services certificates etc that might help.

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          • bobbified on 18/02/2019 - 15:57

            @uAware:

            I was looking at any financial services certificates etc that might help.

            Try and get a job first before you go around studying random stuff. If you're in an entry-level role at a larger company, they will pay for whatever certificates you need.

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      • bobbified on 18/02/2019 - 13:44

        Can you provide a single job advert for a position at any bank with no experience or qualifications?

        The criteria hasn't changed over the years. You know why? A lot of degree-holders think they're too good for these low-paying roles because they've spent a few years at uni.

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    • isthisreallife22 on 18/02/2019 - 14:12

      Can vouch that many of the highly paid managers at banks started in low level jobs, just happened to apply for a vacancy in a new area or as a team manager, and have fairly quickly done well out of it

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