Red Light Traffic Offence When I Was Stopped at The Lights

kiwimex on 15/04/2019 - 12:01
Last edited 16/04/2019 - 23:07 by 1 other user

Just received a failure to stop at a red light offence. I have also been provided two images of the incident.

I clearly remember,ber the day of the offence and remember the traffic light going amber and due to the road being wet I have braked but overshot the line. I was towing a light trailer and this is still behind the line. The first photo supplied by the traffic department shows my Car just at the stop line and the next photo shows it 1 car length onwards with the trailer behind the line, In both images the brake lights are on on both the trailer and the car. The time frame noted on the offence is 2's between shots. This appears to show me stopped the lights, although I have overshot the stop line.

Just wanting to know if I have any chance of successfully contesting the $391.00 fine? I feel I have done the right thing by stopping in a safe manner due to the road conditions of the day.

Not sure how to add images here?

TIA

Cheers Steve

Automotive

closed Comments

  • brad1-8tsi on 15/04/2019 - 13:26

    I'd give it a crack.

    No ABS on vehicle (??). Concern with unfamiliar trailer jack-knifing. Crap chinese tyres that you discovered that day turn the road to an ice-skating rink in the wet.

    The fact is that you overshot and didn't go through.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 16/04/2019 - 08:24
      +2

      ..and lose and pay Court costs. Great idea.

      • brad1-8tsi on 16/04/2019 - 10:25

        sometimes you have to roll the dice.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 16/04/2019 - 14:00

          Well I'd suggest you do that at a casino and not in a Courtroom.

          • brad1-8tsi on 16/04/2019 - 15:41

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I've done it once and won. I'd do it again if I thought I was within the spirit of the law.

            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 16/04/2019 - 16:54

              @brad1-8tsi: Good for you, but every infringement is different and OP is absolutely, without doubt, in breach of the applicable traffic law.

              Your experience has absolutely zero to do with any other person's situation and telling them to "have a crack" is very poor advice.

  • Cave Fire on 15/04/2019 - 13:55

    Doesn't it say Traffic cam unit Brisbane on the back of the fine? They are the people who do the reviews for the QLD police. Looks like you were ten meters away from any chance of being an obstruction. Lame if they would enforce that.

    • kiwimex on 15/04/2019 - 13:59

      Yeah I know…no pedestrian crossing and no where near the actual intersection the light is controlling .

  • c64 on 15/04/2019 - 14:00

    you've got nothing to lose by writing an appeal letter but it looks like you ran a red light me …

    • kiwimex on 15/04/2019 - 14:05
      +9

      Just finished discussing the issue with the transport department over the phone, they agreed I had stopped and there were mitigating factors. The representative suggested I make an enquiry to have it reviewed. So not overly hopeful but some positive out of it.

      • djones145 on 15/04/2019 - 14:17

        if u have a clean record upright get away with a warning

        guessing no

        • kiwimex on 15/04/2019 - 14:45
          +1

          yup clean record no demerit points

          • TheCutter on 15/04/2019 - 15:26
            +3

            @kiwimex: Get off it and tell all the sheep here
            i went to court to get off what was seen as an unwinnable speeding fine
            the judge saw I was a decent cutter and let me off.

          • foolsgold on 15/04/2019 - 17:52
            +1

            @kiwimex: partner got done, been driving for 10+ years never had an offence ever, asked for review stating record etc, was told for red light no discretion.

      • tranter on 15/04/2019 - 15:27
        +7

        But you were already convicted on OzBargain.

        • kiwimex on 15/04/2019 - 16:12

          Yeah by Judge Judy and her bandwagoners

  • crashloaded on 15/04/2019 - 14:39

    I know people that have been done with just their front wheels over the line. Past the line is considered entering the intersection.

    • Griff0 on 15/04/2019 - 15:30
      +2

      They probably got done as they had entered the pedestrian crossing area. Completely different in this situation as there is no pedestrian area. OP has a good chance of getting off this ticket as he did not proceed through the intersection.

      On another note kiwimex, red light cameras actually capture video footage. So on asking for a review, they will look at the video footage from this camera and probably withdraw the infringement notice.

      • kiwimex on 15/04/2019 - 15:48
        -2

        Also I have not entered the intersection at all that is some 15 meters in front of where I stopped and as you stated there is no pedestrian crossing in this instance.

        • crashloaded on 15/04/2019 - 16:23
          +6

          If you passed the stop line you entered the intersection. Regardless of what you "think" entering the intersection is.

        • The Araldited Wallet on 16/04/2019 - 11:40
          +1

          As soon as the front of the vehicle crosses that unbroken line at the traffic lights, you are deemed to have "entered the intersection". That there isn't a pedestrian crossing is pretty much irrelevant in the eyes of the law.

          The line is easily visible and is there to show you where you need to stop. Traffic lights are there for a reason, and it's a good idea to treat them as though they might change from green to amber at any moment, because that's what they do. If the road is wet then you need to drive to the conditions and be prepared to stop at the lights if they change.

          Driving whilst distracted causes accidents. Accidents that can permanently injure other people. You should probably treat this as a bit of a wake-up call.

  • Nebargains on 15/04/2019 - 15:47
    -3

    Love it, someone comes for advice and gets accused of trying to run a red light.

    It is so easy to just look at a mirror, your Speedo, some distraction on the road or anything in your field of vision and miss the light going orange.

    If there is an avenue of writing to have it reviewed I'd give it a shot, no harm in doing so.

    • [Deactivated] on 15/04/2019 - 15:51
      +1

      plenty of other drivers on the road who don't get distracted and don't end up past the line hmmmmmm

    • spackbace on 15/04/2019 - 15:54
      +3

      miss the light going orange.

      Thank god I'm not driving around in Vic.

      • kiwimex on 15/04/2019 - 15:56

        Me neither…!

    • macrocephalic on 16/04/2019 - 12:10
      +3

      He was driving down a nearly straight, 4 lane, 60km/h road at 6:45am on a Sunday. I don't think you can blame external factors.

  • THL on 15/04/2019 - 16:52

    You can do some investigation work if you wish and you'll be surprised of what you might find:
    https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/driver-red-lig…

    Granted this is might just be an one-off case but it's still an option :)

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 16/04/2019 - 08:28
      +2

      Your definition of research is looking up old irrelevant news articles from 6 years ago??

      • pegaxs on 16/04/2019 - 09:55
        +1

        And from a tabloid, click bait website…

  • Okayy on 15/04/2019 - 17:31
    +4

    Sorry for you negligence but good quality camera there.

  • Godric on 15/04/2019 - 17:42
    +4

    That's a considerable amount over, pay up sir

  • crashloaded on 15/04/2019 - 17:45
    +3

    I just looked at the photo's. You're done lol

    • kiwimex on 15/04/2019 - 18:09
      +4

      lol you have been spouting off for some time and only just looked at the photos…..just as well your in the industry!

      • crashloaded on 15/04/2019 - 18:11
        -1

        Well you don't need photos with your description of what happened :)

      • idonotknowwhy on 16/04/2019 - 10:43
        +1

        Both of you have infuriating punctuation and grammatical issues!

        • The Araldited Wallet on 16/04/2019 - 11:43
          +1

          LOL!!! Punctuation has gone from being a necessary part of communication, to just an old-fashioned notion. Just like manners.

  • Aust on 15/04/2019 - 19:00

    Did you argue the other car in the intersection in photo 1 and is clearly gone in photo 2 would indicate your were stopping.
    Not the ute on the left , the SUV on the top right
    Have a crack

    • kiwimex on 15/04/2019 - 19:08

      Yes this has been outlined in enquiry

  • Amour on 15/04/2019 - 19:43
    +2

    My OH got a red light ticket from that intersection. It was before the small concrete barrier was built between the main road and the left turning lanes. He was turning left on a green light, but proceeded past the stop line on the left lane in the process of changing lanes into the turning lane. Lots of people got tickets from doing the same thing and a politician got involved to get it fixed and eventually that concrete barrier was built. My OH asked for the ticket to be reviewed and was unsuccessful. Good luck - there is no harm in asking.

  • serpserpserp on 15/04/2019 - 20:23
    +7

    Please we need a MS Paint diagram to understand this very complex problem.

  • dufflover on 15/04/2019 - 20:47
    -2

    Whilst I agree the OP is fighting up hill given the picture of him obviously being over the line, it just has the opposite affect for road safety cos he may have been perfectly fine not slowing down at all and running the yellow.

    The rules say lights go for 3-4 seconds for most speeds but sometimes that feels hard to believe. At times I've had to hit the breaks quite hard to stop on-time but luckily still stopped behind the line, but still thinking "there's no way anyone would've made it through at the limit".

  • mba on 15/04/2019 - 21:11

    That "flash" in picture 1 was there before you crossed the white line, perhaps it was for the black suv in lane 2, did it show speed?

    Do QLD have red light and speed cameras? Maybe the black suv triggered the speed camera?

    I'd request for review if you can

    • kiwimex on 15/04/2019 - 21:42
      +1

      Hmm that appears to be a good point, what has triggered the camera to go off in the first photo. The flash i see in both pics is in the same location on the entrance door to the tavern

    • That Guy on 16/04/2019 - 09:49
      +1

      That intersection does have a red/speed camera in it.

  • omcb on 15/04/2019 - 21:59
    +2

    You've been nicked, son.

  • haemolysis on 15/04/2019 - 22:52
    +2

    Towing something doesn’t give you special lenience it means YOU have to take special precaution. So over these “I was caught on cam doing the wrong thing how can I get out of it” posts.

  • sgtdanny69148 on 15/04/2019 - 23:08
    +1

    Can we take a moment to appreciate how fine that photo quality is.

    • John Kimble on 16/04/2019 - 07:07

      The real ones are even better according to the text on the bottom!

      • kiwimex on 16/04/2019 - 07:32
        -1

        Such great quality photos the image number hasn't changed according to the text at the top of both images….Which shows the vehicle in two different locations in the same photo according to the image No. The photo shopping skills are first class.

  • Euphemistic on 15/04/2019 - 23:27

    I don’t get how you could possibly think the two photos show you were stopped. You need two photos of the vehicle in the same position to show it stopped. The photos show you were moving - and ran the red.

  • cille745 on 16/04/2019 - 00:13
    -3

    Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact OP was towing a trailer. They've essentially got the safe stopping distance of a truck

    • xuqi on 16/04/2019 - 00:42
      +6

      That is something for the driver to consider when driving with the added load, not a reason for leniency.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 16/04/2019 - 08:35
      +2

      Well maybe OP should slow down when driving with a payload in "wet weather"?

    • macrocephalic on 16/04/2019 - 10:53

      Plus, it's a tiny trailer with just a compressor and a tool box in it.

  • myusername on 16/04/2019 - 08:14

    looks like you were creeping forward anticipating a light change and they didn't.

    As for you trailer still being behind the line that ain't going to cut it.

    "but officer i was driving a b-double and the last carriage is still behind the line"

    I know at that time of day at that particular intersection it can be quiet.

    • kiwimex on 16/04/2019 - 08:35
      -1

      Looks like doesn’t cut it, maybe you should analyse the image better including the data. Creeping forward anticipating a light change lol I guess the car in the first image that did in fact run a red light, was just creeping forward as well. And what are you trying to suggest by time of day and this particular intersection?

      • myusername on 16/04/2019 - 10:45

        maybe re-read the post just a little slower ;-)

  • raiseyoursteaks on 16/04/2019 - 09:28

    Yes you can contest. Done it before. These are all computer printed in bulk and mailed out.

  • chuckles89 on 16/04/2019 - 09:33

    end of the day i dont think it hurts to contest it. just mention with the road conditions and with a trailer you ended up breaking much slower than you would have without those conditions. if they say no, pay it,

  • Micko179 on 16/04/2019 - 10:26

    That Intersection at Kedron Park Hotel is huge! I often worry about getting fines in the Mail because tossers tailgating me & even though my Hybrid Camry stops on a Dime they won't. To be honest most people speed along that section (it's posted limit is 60kmh) hence I get Tailgated constantly whilst doing the Speed Limit.

  • macrocephalic on 16/04/2019 - 10:49

    You were either not paying attention (because you didn't stop in time), going too fast for the conditions (because you couldn't stop in time), or willfully crossed the line.

    It's a long, wide, mostly straight road leading up to that intersection, and there doesn't appear to be any reason that you couldn't see what was ahead (it was 6:48am on a Sunday morning).

    Maybe if the magistrate is feeling particularly charitable you might get off, but I don't see any grounds to appeal it. I hate getting done for traffic infringements as well - especially when you didn't cause any problems for anyone, but I don't think you have a legal leg to stand on.

  • Terocket on 16/04/2019 - 11:11

    Just curious, can anybody comment when exactly does the red light camera activate- Living in Vic, I understand the camera only gets activated sub-seconds after the red light and captures pics if/when vehicle tyres cross over the intersection line

    In this case, however it seems the red light camera has activated and captured the OP vehicle just before it has entered the intersection

    Can any one please explain this?

    • Lockieasy on 16/04/2019 - 12:58

      You're right, that's very curious and also very clever on the camera people's part.

      Perhaps the embedded speed camera detected he wasn't stopped at the red light, so took a pre-emptive shot, then took the second one after he had both sets of wheels over the white line.

    • kiwimex on 16/04/2019 - 16:23

      I would say the car in front of me in the 1st photo has tripped the carmela to activate, and i'm just part of a 2 for 1 deal.

  • Skramit on 16/04/2019 - 11:43
    +1

    Red light incidents are usually the most likely to cause catastrophic crashes. I have pretty much zero sympathy as you either weren’t paying attention or tried to beat the orange but then panicked.

    So I’d be surprised if they waive this fine.

    Also it’s barely wet.

    • macrocephalic on 16/04/2019 - 12:13

      The road is entirely wet with minimal standing water - not that it should be any excuse.

      • Skramit on 16/04/2019 - 15:50

        Yeah even on really wet road, the orange is ample stopping time if paying attention.

  • 13 on 16/04/2019 - 12:15

    Just put pen to paper plead your case. The worst is they enforce the fine. Best,they let you off

  • luckyfnq on 16/04/2019 - 12:26
    +1

    I Think there is a case to at least try to appeal the fine, but only if you have a clean driving record! Yes you may of broken the law but clearly you did not run a red light otherwise you would of been down the road and gone! And this primarily the function of these cameras so they say. It will cost you a postage stamp and just be sincere in what you write. GOOD LUCK KEEP US POSTED!!

  • Unsafe on 16/04/2019 - 14:02
    +1

    Call Legal Aid, they'll break it down for you. Anything else is an opinionated guess, whereas I believe you're asking for an educated one.

  • DEvok on 16/04/2019 - 16:34

    Once I went past the lines when there was a red light with the speed cameras next to it, I stopped Little to slow and my half my car was sticking out pass the line, I was flashed but was never given any fines that is because you get taken two photos and if it proves u still drove ahead you surely will be fined. There have been cases were you do get fined they are human errors, all you can do now is take it to court you should not be out of pocket if you are right.

    • kiwimex on 16/04/2019 - 16:56

      I have asked for a review via an online submission and further to that I have requested a copy of the video.

      I just read the following on the QLD Police web site!

      So Im wondering why I have been snapped prior to crossing the white line (probably the car in front of me in the first photo)

      How do red light cameras work?

      Red light cameras operate automatically, day and night. A red light camera is connected to traffic lights and is activated when a vehicle crosses the white stop line. The camera is programmed to take photographs of any vehicle travelling over the stop line or entering the intersection after the lights have turned red. The camera will not be triggered by vehicles crossing the stop line on yellow or green lights.

      Red light cameras are programmed to create a data block on, adjacent to or associated with each image. The data block may contain, but is not limited to the following information:

      Date when the image was taken;
      Time when the image was taken; and
      Number given in the ‘Traffic Camera Coding Manual’ for the location of the system’s camera when the image was taken.

  • Technics on 16/04/2019 - 18:37
    -2

    Based on observations I've performed around that part of town I had assumed that utes (especially those fitted with tool boxes) were exempt from any and all road rules anyway. So surely this has been issued in error and will be immediately withdrawn.

    What's in that tiny trailer that pushed you so far over the line anyway? Your tungsten and depleted uranium collection? For me, the worst part is that you followed up a minor road offence with the serious crime of piracy. Those images are copyright the state of Queensland and you've now shared them with random OzB riff raff. For shame.

    • kiwimex on 16/04/2019 - 18:51

      Classic example of, If you have nothing good to say, best you say nothing!

      Thanks for your amazing input.

      • Technics on 16/04/2019 - 21:55

        Fair point. I meant to say that it wasn't your fault and you should hopefully be able to get out of it because it's not really fair to expect you to pay attention or operate a vehicle with due care. Is that better? Hopefully they cancel the fine, you learn nothing and some innocent people can pay the price next time you lose focus? Yes much better.

        • kiwimex on 16/04/2019 - 22:03

          I done with idiot responses….Yellow card for you son!

          • Technics on 16/04/2019 - 22:04
            +1

            @kiwimex: Your level of self awareness is staggering. Thanks for playing.

    • burningrage on 16/04/2019 - 19:51

      wtf?

  • Morphio25 on 16/04/2019 - 19:35
    +1

    When the first photo was taken the lights had already been RED for almost 0.6 seconds. The lights are YELLOW for at least a couple of seconds before turning red and by your own admission the roads were wet so that begs the question, why weren't you driving to the conditions?

    The way I see it you're nicked bruv, just pay the fine!

  • BoomTetrisForJeff on 16/04/2019 - 19:40

    Going over the white line is considered being in the intersection/danger to other vehicles.
    My friend got booked for being over the line 20cm by the police behind him, red light fine.

  • EVA-01 on 16/04/2019 - 19:48

    The line's there for a reason.

    Just because there's no pedestrian crossing at this particular light doesn't mean motorists are free to stop over the line.

    You had a trailer - should have allowed extra stopping distance.

    The road was wet - should have allowed extra stopping distance.

    And you failed by a long shot. If there were a pedestrian crossing you could have run them over already.

    "I know there's no pedestrian so I know it's safe to overshoot the line by a few meters" isn't an acceptable argument.

    Just pay the fine and move on.

  • bdl on 16/04/2019 - 20:44

    New evidence of incident: https://imgur.com/a/AtX8EDJ

  • letmethefuqin on 16/04/2019 - 21:41

    I wasn't going to comment on this because there was too many replys, but as I had your 2 photos up and about to close them I realised something.

    This Red light camera fine isn't got you.
    a red light camera is triggered when you cross the line,
    In image 1 have not crossed the line.

    However what brings you undone is you have crossed the line in image 2.

    Ultimately here is what would have been the situation,
    You'e seen the orange decided to cruise through it, realised you are not going to make it so you hesitated between putting your foot down and breaking
    You've gone to put your foot down in a split second decision then realised and hit the breaks,
    You've slid through the intersection and backed up

    Realistically you can take it to court and depending on the judge and your previous history you could be let off.
    But its a 50.50 chance with the likely hood that you will loose given the unclear responses to a lot of these questions

    Goodluck what ever way you choose

  • Raheen on 16/04/2019 - 22:26

    you could take it to a magistrate and say there were contaminents on the road hence it made your stopping distance longer than what otherwise would have been expected hence you went over the line… there is no proof either way, if you have a good record then whose to say if there was or wasn't, they will ask you how came to that conclusion you can say be the feel you got through the brake pedal and you could smell it…

    • MarsTitan on 17/04/2019 - 02:12

      Or just pull castle "it's the vibe".

  • Herbse on 16/04/2019 - 22:31

    You've admitted to being distracted and not seeing the lights turn amber and then red.
    The fact that you "didn't obstruct any vehicles" is irrelevant. If a pedestrian or kid was crossing the road, you would have killed them.

    Please take it to court, and then update us. Out of all the road offences, failing to stop for a red light and DUI's are enforced strictly because of their lethal consequences, so best of luck.

    • kiwimex on 16/04/2019 - 22:35
      -1

      Why would I waste my time taking a $400 dollar fine to court? maybe you should read the entire post and you will see it has been contested via the online portal.

      • Herbse on 16/04/2019 - 22:48
        -1

        Your "entire post" says "contest the fine"
        And later on you said "You can only challenge a fine in QLD via court as far as i am aware"

        So you didn't know about the online portal until an hour later at least.

        I've read through the posts and it seems like your story changes as people critic it. First it's the weather, then you're distracted and now you've also edited the OP to remove the pictures and now say "I don't know how to upload pictures", and edited who knows what else.

        Anyway. I hope all this means you've learnt from it. Good luck mate.

        • Technics on 16/04/2019 - 23:07

          Too busy for court. Too busy to pay attention while driving. Too busy to get the story straight. The fine will be pocket change for someone with that much on anyway.

        • spackbace on 16/04/2019 - 23:23
          -1

          Omg lol @ revisions

        • kiwimex on 16/04/2019 - 23:25
          +1

          My initial post states "contesting" once, not the entire post.

          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/450917#comment

          This I only found out after making the post, and then I found out about the online portal afterwards.

          Story hasn't changed, I mentioned weather in my initial post then agreed with others that maybe I was distracted.

          Removing the photos was in an attempt to stop further comments, as many commenters seem to be on a witch hunt and assuming, rather than answering my initial question.

          My bad I forgot that Ozbargain was the wrong place to bring this up!

  • Moderatorscrimshaw on 17/04/2019 - 02:40

    Thread closed by OP request.

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