Child Discipline

legendary-noob on 24/04/2019 - 23:28
Last edited 26/04/2019 - 11:34

So, my wife an I have been discussing about discipline recently…

Growing up in Malaysia, it WAS a norm for teachers to punish us (i think its not the case anymore)…
I have gone through almost all of them - ranging from walking in school corridor with hands tied above our heads (public shaming) to caning (normally on palm or bum). and our parents WERE very supportive of teacher punishing us if we misbehaved at school. Our parents would also punish us when we misbehaved at home. In fact almost every households that i know of back then had at least 1 cane at home. Looking back, i never resent my parents or teachers. I felt that even though it didn't feel good, it made me a better person (at least that's what I think).

My wife on the other hand told me she resent her parents for hitting her when she was younger. Growing up in China, she described to me that it WAS NOT a norm and one of her friends actually had depression because his parents had beaten him for misbehaving. When the class found out that he was beaten by his dad, they actually felt VERY bad for him. So naturally my wife is against any form of physical punishment and insist on 100% verbal reasoning when bringing up our child.

Obviously I'm indifferent. To me I'd rather my son behave and I don't have to resort to choosing the right form of punishment. Buy my question is, what if verbal reasoning doesn't work?

Ignoring legality, what do you think about physical punishment (including caning).
Please note I am not supporting any form of punishment that resembles domestic violence or abuse.

P/S I quickly googled body punishment - and it appears that it was an influence from British (ie western culture) back then and hence commonality of "caning" in both Singapore and Malaysia.

EDIT:
Thanks everyone for your views. My wife and I were wrong to think that most people would be against physical punishment. I'm quite glad with the outcome of the poll to be frank for the fact its pretty even and I am not alone to think body punishment is OK. We as parents want the best for our kids. We get no joy seeing kids get spoiled which would ultimately harm their own future in my view. I told my wife - if she has a better way to get our kids to behave then I wouldn't be hitting my kids in the first place. Obviously it is a last resort. But I definitely got good tips on better parenting. Regardless of the outcome, good luck to everyone on parenting. Mine obviously has only just started.

Poll Options expired

  • 182
    Physical punishment is NOT OK
  • 278
    Physical punishment is OK
Toys & Kids

Comments

  • EightImmortals on 25/04/2019 - 07:40
    +7

    Our son is 20 now and he's a great kid. Got plenty of smacks on the bum when he went through the terrible 2's but when he got to about 4 he didn't need that any more. He learned to have some self control, that actions have consequences and that no means no. We were always fair and balanced, he always got one or two warnings and he never got smacked if we were angry. There is a huge difference between balanced discipline and 'beatings'.

    Was talking with him about that the other day and he doesn't remember a ting, we have a great relationship and he has no mental or emotional issues.

    • Zachary on 29/04/2019 - 00:12

      …didn't know kids can be 20 year olds…..

      • EightImmortals on 29/04/2019 - 06:20
        +1

        Mate at my age anyone under 30 is a kid….

        • Zachary on 29/04/2019 - 13:07

          ….you must be a grandpa!

  • voteoften on 25/04/2019 - 08:38
    +6

    In regards to the wife’s severe dislike of physical punishment, I suspect that there were words used alongside the beatings and that those words are the ones that hurt still.

    I was very lucky with my daughter. She was very biddable and compliant. I’m sure some of that was nature, but the nurture part helped as well. I had very few rules. I didn’t make deals out of anything that werent important to my core values. My priorities were first of all her character. After that it was academic performance and self esteem.

    Last year we were dining together ( she was 15 at the time). Out of the blue, she casually threw out that she hopes she does as good of a job raising her kids as I did with her. I was stunned. I couldn’t think of a more meaningful compliment, I just hope that she still thinks that way when she is fifty.

    I’m not a proponent of hitting kids. Then again my path has been different to that of others. I quite like Jordan Peterson and one of his twelve rules for life is that you should never allow your children to do things that make you dislike them. Basically you are more likely to hurt them somehow in a pique if they are little shits and they are less likely to be accepted and embraced by others which will severely damage them.

    • Laurana on 25/04/2019 - 22:09

      Congratulations! It must have felt great to hear that and it sounds like you’ve done a great job so far.

      I think that having few rules and not making a big deal out of small things is great.

      I also loved your priorities of character, academic performance and self-steem. I worked at a crematorium, and the number of teen suicides was honestly the most depressing thing about working there. I wish more parents would focus on encouraging good self-steem in their children (specially girls). It also helps ensuring they have confidence and self-respect <3

    • legendary-noob on 26/04/2019 - 13:16

      This is gold! Thanks for that.
      I see consistency between your approach and my parents'.
      I only got caned or locked out from home when I broke core values - being disrespectful or lying.
      I never got beating for not being smart or got a bad score etc.
      Today I value my core principals and moral values very much even though I appear to be very conservative among those in my age group (my wife calls me an old china man even though I'm only 30 because my conservatism is par with her great grand parents).

      For my wife apparently it got pretty violent for the vaguest thing - like being scolded for not studying.
      As such i can understand her point of not wanting to put my sons through the same thing again.

      • Miss B on 26/04/2019 - 16:07

        Caning and locking children out of the house is possibly going to cause you problems with police/DHS. If you give your kids a smack and don't leave a mark you're probably okay legally. As in genuinely, not that there's no proof, check your state laws, but I know some actually say something along the lines of reasonable and no mark left. You have a responsibility to ensure your children have adequate supervision, so locking them out of the house may be an issue in that sense.

    • S2 on 26/04/2019 - 14:26
      -1

      I really like Jordan Peterson but haven't read his 12 rules yet. In relation to that particular rule (which I've heard previously), would this include your child wanting to be gay?
      Sorry for the off topic hijack. It's something I've wondered.

    • U4333439 on 27/04/2019 - 08:58

      I really like your post and will have a look at Jordan's book.

      Are you able to expand on how you went about focusing on character and self esteem? I'm a father of two young boys and am always looking for tips.

  • RockyRaccoon on 25/04/2019 - 08:39
    +5

    Parents should be consistent, agree upon a strategy that they are comfortable with and that they can enforce.

    Children like all humans are smart and can work out quite well how to adapt.

    When parents are not consistent and/or they are not insync with each other then like all smart souls kids will learn how to play up the differences.

    So while you may not agree with the strategy of your spouse, it might be better to compromise rather than discipline your children differently.

    Btw this also goes with grandparents. If they have anything to do with the children growing up, then they need to be on board with your discipline strategy.

    If the child isnt confused and understands the consistent message, like all humans they can live within the rules and the rules dont need enforcing with a heavy hand.

    Hard discipline means they didn't get the message beforehand, and who failed in that regard.

    Above all remember you are parents, not friends. Parenting does mean doing things that the children don't like.

    Dont confuse their respect and love for being your friend while growing up.

    My children are my friends, but they are now adults.

    Our relationship is now based on our ongoing respect with each other. They advise me like I advise them, while I think they are wrong sometimes, they are also right sometimes.

    They can now tell me to butt out while I can also do the same.

    So do I support physical discipline?

    Yes BUT only when (not necessarily in this order)

    1. Its well and truly after the event(s) so its NEVER administered with anger.
    2. As a last resort and minimal (smacking vs beating)
    3. Only if its explained why and how the child can avoid it in the future
    4. When my partner agrees.
    5. My partner and I look at what we did to let the situation reach this level of discipline to occur. (BTW my spouse came from the no discipline school, I came from the heavy discipline school)
    6. Its rare

    Overall its a partnership between Parents and Children, to help them (and you) to learn new ways of coping with life.

    Parenting is thrust upon you, there isnt a course you do, you learn as you go. Children grow up, Parents grow up, both learn along the way.

    And how do I know all this, because like all parents I made mistakes, some I am not proud of, some I will never know if they were right, but even as I get older I learn, and I discuss things with my partner. That way we all learn

  • Bid Sniper on 25/04/2019 - 08:52
    +6

    As a parent I simply boil it down to choice of carrot or stick.

    My parents never hit me, so do the same with my child, if they're acting up I go down to their level, ask whats wrong and explain why what she is doing is wrong. Also if she the chose to right path then we can do something they enjoy later, eg get home for dinner, read a book at home. Also say for instance when shopping I'll assign her a job, ie hold the paper towels, kids love to help in their own way but also to have agency in their choices.

    Have to be consistent for day 1 and also dependant on the child. To me I think kids are a mirror, come at them with hostility and aggression and get that reflected back. I see family where the kids are yelling, parents are yelling and its just amp up chaos, I really dont want to that life.

    Every kid is different and some just dont listen, just need to find the right stick. Most parents I see use phones and ipads…

    • StickMan on 25/04/2019 - 11:12
      +1

      And if they choose the wrong path?

      I don’t actually think ANY anti-hit response here has addressed the singular question in the OP: what do you do if they refuse to listen.

  • terrys on 25/04/2019 - 09:01
    +6

    Google Maslow's " Hierarchy of needs", devloped after it was noted that children in orphanages would actively seek out punishments, as it was at least attention, a vital need for children.

    I also had physical punishment as a child, it being the norm. The worst punishment of all, and one that was effective, was the time I had bitten my sisters hand, and my mother declared that from then on, I was to call her "Aunty ******", as no child of hers would behave that way. It was only for ~ an hour, but my behavior changed…

    The school beatings merely bred resentment, especially the one for the heinous crime of accidentally joining up some letters, as my new class was still 'printing', and I had had several weeks practice at cursive script at an early school and some letters naturally ran on.

    When bringing up my own children, my partner and I were fortunate in that our children were well behaved [they took after her], however we noticed after 3 years that the one factor that correlated with well adjusted children among our rather large peer group wasn't the lack or presence of physical punishment, but rather consistency.

    • Laurana on 25/04/2019 - 22:16
      +2

      Oh man, Aunty xxxx. That is savage!! I have never heard that before.

      It would work so well on my daughter, but I’d be so scared that it’d emotionally traumatise her for life 😂

  • DazMon on 25/04/2019 - 09:23

    This poll is going to be really interesting.
    I'm going to be following this with interest.
    I have this very problem and its interesting to see everyone's opinions.

    • tranter on 25/04/2019 - 10:15
      +2

      The comments are more interesting. Polls are hardly ever truly representative.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/04/2019 - 10:45

      Well, in all relationships there is a good half and a bad half.

      As the child is the better half in parent/child relationships so why not change your behaviour for them? Let them lead the way rather than trying to use force to make them change and act out according to our own corrupt adult moral values.

  • tranter on 25/04/2019 - 09:57
    +1

    Some people think it's ok to hit their kids, ok, fine, that's their choice if they think it works. (although the research suggests otherwise)

    But at the same time they have to teach their kids that when they are a little bit older, if they all but place their hand on somebody else, there could be consequences such as being charged with assault.

    I would rather teach by example and not resort to hitting. There are better ways as many have pointed out already.

    • Laurana on 25/04/2019 - 22:19

      There have actually been very few suggestions for alternatives to physical punishments on this threat.

      I think someone mentioned positive rewards and another person mentioned the naughty corner but unless I am blind, there really have not been many alternatives mentioned…

  • madreece on 25/04/2019 - 10:31
    +5

    I was raised with the occasional smack and never thought too much about it and thought that would be the way I'd parent. Come to having our first child and she was/is severely unwell. Spent far too long in the Children's Hospital seeing the fragility of life to ever hit my children.

    • EightImmortals on 25/04/2019 - 11:17
      +3

      Yes, you don't hit sick children.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/04/2019 - 14:13
      -2

      If your child threw scissors at another child or ran across train tracks without looking, do you think talking to them would be enough? To a large degree they can't be properly reasoned with as they are children. If a child approached a deadly snake to pat it, you could talk to the child, but I don't think that is enough. If a child nearly eats a battery, just talking to them won't do much. Maybe you could cleverly make a non toxic battery from cake decorations and that tastes like brussels sprouts to teach a behaviour but fear through smacking might also make the situation safer than just talking.

      • Deridas on 25/04/2019 - 19:45

        If talking to them isn't enough, doesn't necessarily mean fear through physical smacking might not be enough either.

    • Haha Hihi Hoho on 26/04/2019 - 10:59

      I was the same at the beginning, daughter was at hospital for 275 days. felt really bad trying to discipline her, especially with smacking. but there are times when she went too far that I had to discipline her with smacking. as long as it is for a good reason, and within reasonable force, it should be fine. she had a rough start, the last thing i want is she grow up to be spoilt lady

    • legendary-noob on 26/04/2019 - 16:09

      I'm sorry to hear that.
      Understand that it is very difficult - stay strong!

  • ozbjunkie on 25/04/2019 - 11:04
    +2

    Maybe an open handed smack on the bottom delivered more for shock than for pain is acceptable in extremely limited situations.

    However. From what I understand of psychology, positive punishment leads the learner to a more fearful and less trusting state regarding the world, and the teacher/parent in particular.

    Also from a psychological perspective, you are modelling for your children that violence or inflicting pain on others is an acceptable way to generate compliance. This can be problematic.

    Finally, there were rumours of sexual abuse in my extended family, leading one parent to very clearly and firmly explain to me that absolutely nobody, not even my parents, had the right to touch me, anywhere on my body whatsoever, without my permission. Being smacked would be incompatible with this idea.

    But if your kid responds to nothing else, I guess you have to hit them. I don't know. I don't have kids. I think hitting anyone is bad though. Even children. Especially children.

  • [Deactivated] on 25/04/2019 - 11:22
    +2

    I don't hit adults so I don't hit children.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/04/2019 - 11:50
      +2

      There is at least the theory that a stitch in time saves nine and cars and trains do hit children so a smack is the less violent act. Personal safety is subjective so there may be no single answer. It's not a black and white situation. If a child hurts another or acts dangerously with a knife, reasoning with them might not be as effective as a smack. If a child endangers their own eyesight or someone else's, a smack on the body is appropriate, in my view.

  • skillet on 25/04/2019 - 11:36
    +1

    In Singapore and Malaysia, adult male under 50 can receive up to 24 strokes of industrial caning under court order. Women are exempted. You wont be able to sit or lie on your back for weeks.

    This is real punishment but it is not suitable for a growing child. Children who is obviously mentally immature does not relate things like an adult.

    There are many ways to discipline a child, physical punishment is one but not until all other methods are exhausted. They are always challenging you, think of this as a game, you lose your temper you lost the game. Learn to control your emotions, don't mix your emotions when caring for these little rascals. Releasing your anger with physical punishment is the worst you can do as a parent, this is abuse. Some kids really need a good smack sometimes don't raise your child to be snowflakes with bribery, let them know human can inflict violence and let them experience it with love of course.

  • Donaldhump on 25/04/2019 - 11:41
    +3

    my dad smacked me good once, that all i needed to be taught how to behave. i think a smack on the a$$ is hardly beating your child at worst it stings for 5 minutes.

    • vince088 on 25/04/2019 - 12:04

      i agree

  • [Deactivated] on 25/04/2019 - 12:27
    +11

    My wife, who worked for 10+ years with people who have actual Behaviours Of Concerns, is amazing with our children. Our friends call her the pied piper of kids and would often comment on how much calmer their own kids were after having a playdate at our place. She never loses her cool and uses positive reinforcement rather than punishment.

    I've (perhaps unconsciously) modeled her parenting style and have never had to resort to smacking with my twins. They are well-adjusted, happy kids who are polite,well-behaved and have a strong sense of what is right and wrong. The only time I remember them getting in trouble was for standing up for a mate, who it later turned out was being bullied by other kids. The headmaster even called us to apologise for mis-reading the situation. We were killing it at this parenting gig!

    Then came my 3rd child … and dear God, help us all🤦‍♂️ He is a cheeky, cheeky, little monkey. My wife and the twins attended a funeral overseas and I was a single parent of a toddler for 3 weeks. Without the calming influence of his mother and the distractions provided by his elder siblings , the devil inside that child fed off my manic energy and he went SUPERNOVA! 2 hospital trips; responsible for causing a mutiny during nap time at his daycare by taking off his clothes and running across the room , shouting at the top of his voice "free willy!" ; couple of full-blown meltdowns; pushing at the boundaries ; refusing to go bed…etc It was hell! I have a new-found respect for single-parents and understand why some animals eat their young.

    • leiiv on 25/04/2019 - 22:52

      So at the end of the day, does the positive reinforcement alone work for your third?

      • [Deactivated] on 25/04/2019 - 23:25
        +1

        When my wife is here, yes. She is a naturally calm person ( unlike me, who can get quite manic when I'm stressed) and he reacts differently when he's around her. She also has a visual reward system in place , uses a communication board so he knows what he has on for the day and what is expected of him, somehow gets him to join her in yoga and some form mindfulness meditation in the morning, she avoids his triggers like sugary drinks or over-stimulation…etc There are also rules, boundaries he knows he can't cross, routine he follows …etc All those things make him feel safe.

        I know all that but when it was just him and me for the 3 weeks, it was really hard just to get him ready in the morning for day care 3 days a week then go to a work , pick him up after work , shop, cook , feed him, clean the house, laundry… and on those days when he didn't have day care, I had to work from home while still looking after him. It was exhausting. I stopped using the strategies , relaxed the rules, dropped the ball, found excuses not to take him to the park or the beach to burn some of his energy off and it was bound to be a disaster.

        We were also both missing my wife and the elder kids, which further compounded the situation.

        • try2bhelpful on 25/04/2019 - 23:40

          Sounds like you need to join in the Yoga classes and get your wife to teach you. Maybe you could take lead care for him whilst the wife is in residence so she can provide some guidance, she would probably like the break:) Best of luck with the child wrangling.

          • [Deactivated] on 25/04/2019 - 23:45

            @try2bhelpful: This is my usual schedule I do do yoga and mindfulness but I was out of routine too and just too tired while I was looking after him. The worst part for me was not having my wife there to debrief after a long, hard day.

            • try2bhelpful on 26/04/2019 - 16:49

              @[Deactivated]: I can fully sympathise. I don’t know how parents do it, my cats drive me crazy enough. Sounds like you guys are doing pretty good though. The advantage is kids grow into adults, eventually.

        • leiiv on 26/04/2019 - 08:35
          +1

          Thanks for your story! I guess there is no holy grail for this. What work for some may not work for others. It all comes down to the combination of the parents and kids personality, habit, will power, etc. We, as the parents, can of course make choices based on what we believe in. The important things are in realizing that they all come with the risks and consequences, and in accepting those.

  • Aliastar on 25/04/2019 - 13:36
    +2

    Talk to them first, if that doesn't work. Smack them.

    • ronafios on 27/04/2019 - 08:44
      -1

      This is terrible advice.

  • ego22 on 25/04/2019 - 14:59
    +6

    most of us all got hit at some point, and were all fine… all our parent got hit and they were all fine. and everyone on earth got hit before them since the dawn of humans, and were all still here…
    not giving a child some form physical punishment is an untested thing. but as we can see, kids these days are turning into spoiled, wan#ey, entitled pieces of sh@t.
    and its just the start.
    wait untill THEY raise kids. total idiocracy

    • tessel on 26/04/2019 - 06:33
      +1

      Couldn't agree more. Things worked fine up until we decided to try something else. Interesting to see how that is turning out.

      • Other on 28/04/2019 - 11:07

        Go look at the education system. Massive changes based on (my best guess) ego.
        Whole language approach was a failure. Now back to phonics.

    • voteoften on 26/04/2019 - 07:17

      I disagree.those kids will probably be strict with their kids.

  • AncientWisdom on 25/04/2019 - 15:07
    +2

    An alternative to physical punishment that works well for us: https://www.123magic.com/

    I think too many people confuse no physical punishment with no punishment/consequences. You want to teach your kids that while they are unconditionally loved, their actions carry consequences.

    Other points raised in the comments such as not acting out of anger (as much as possible), having consistency and working together as a unified team I completely agree with. Another excellent point is to always try and understand why the child is behaving the way he is, it is sometimes difficult but more often than not it traces back to us. I also always make sure the kids know I'm there to help them and I understand and sympathise with what they're going through (although of course not condoning the way they choose to react).

    • Aliastar on 25/04/2019 - 15:44
      +5

      "I think too many people confuse no physical punishment with no punishment/consequences"

      I think too many people confuse smacking children means not talking to them atall and to just beat the shit of out them.

  • LPV569 on 25/04/2019 - 17:31
    +6

    A parent hitting a child in anger is never ok.

    • belongsinforums on 25/04/2019 - 20:18
      +9

      Do it with a smile

      • ronafios on 27/04/2019 - 08:44
        -2

        Making light of child abuse is classless.

        • belongsinforums on 27/04/2019 - 10:24
          +1

          Better stay off the internet then

          • ronafios on 27/04/2019 - 10:27
            -1

            @belongsinforums: Justifying it is also classless.

            • belongsinforums on 27/04/2019 - 10:28
              +1

              @ronafios: Getting upset over dark humour sounds like it's your thing. Good luck with that

              • ronafios on 27/04/2019 - 11:19

                @belongsinforums: This is a forum where people are seriously discussing how to discipline children, including hitting. It’s not a humourous post. It’s not dark humour. It’s contributing to the minimisation of child abuse.

                • belongsinforums on 27/04/2019 - 12:35

                  @ronafios: A light smack for swearing at parents is child abuse?

                  • ronafios on 27/04/2019 - 12:45

                    @belongsinforums: The comment was "A parent hitting a child in anger is never OK". The reply was "Do it with a smile". Yes, hitting a child in anger is child abuse. The reply, although intended humorously, has the function of minimising child abuse by offering a humour fuse. It's uncool to joke about it in a forum where it seems a lot of people are seeking justification for either their own problems with parents when they were being raised, or for their own behaviour with their own children. Making jokes in a forum like this isn't dark humour because it actually provides relief to those who may actually be abusing children. I have no problem with dark humour when the overall tone is humour.

                    • belongsinforums on 27/04/2019 - 12:55

                      @ronafios: There's bound to be anger involved when smacking kids. Perhaps anger is the wrong word. Frustration? The issue i raised with my comment that if hitting in anger is wrong, then is hitting when not in anger right?

                      • ronafios on 27/04/2019 - 13:04
                        +1

                        @belongsinforums: If you want a comprehensive answer, the main mistake parents make is not understanding the developmental phases of children. Sometimes we have to physically restrict what a child can access (cot for example, or gates in kitchen, chemicals in child-proof cupboards). We do that because they don't have the cognitive ability to assess risk and mitigate it. It's OK and appropriate to physically remove a child from danger (i.e. lift them up and away from something dangerous), but to expect that hitting them will change their behaviour is a mistake. Sometimes parents are frustrated by the behaviour of the child, when in fact it was a mistake by the parent. E.g. - don't take a tired kid to the shops, don't let your kid run around near a train, don't give your kid energy drinks and then take them to church etc. Parents get frustrated by the PREDICTABLE behaviour, then punish the child out of anger, often with physical hitting. This is abusive, and won't help the child learn. It was unreasonable to expect that behaviour given the circumstances. Adults should adult.

                        The better approach when risky stuff is happening is to remove the danger, or the child from the danger, and then when everyone is calm explain the problem and try to activate the immature thinking processes in the child. They won't be activated when the child is distressed. Then take steps to reduce the risk in the future. It's pretty basic, but sleep-deprived parents who see an easy option that 'solves the problem instantly' take the low road all too often. In many cases no long term injury is done. Unfortunately, in many cases children end up dead. There were over 60,000 substantiated reports of child abuse in Australia last year - or, 164 per day.

                        • belongsinforums on 27/04/2019 - 13:16

                          @ronafios: you didn't answer the question. you're also not taking into account how verbal abuse can be more harmful in the long term. stop deviating. op asked if its ok to hit kids AFTER they dont respond to verbal warnings, e.g. 'i told you not to do that again' followed by a light smack on the hand. presumably this will make the child cry but also perhaps teach a child without the ability to communicate verbally that x = danger (e.g. picking up a heavy bowl of food and throwing it)

                          • ronafios on 27/04/2019 - 13:28

                            @belongsinforums: The answer: physical and verbal abuse are not OK. When you hit a child (even lightly on the hand), you activate the limbic system (emotional responses), which reduces their ability to access the executive functioning part of their brain (i.e., they are irrational when upset, and may continue the behaviour, worsen it (escalation) or associate negative emotion with your parenting).

                            Remove the danger, or the child from danger (i.e. time out) wait until everyone is calm, explain the required behaviour, use a mix of positive and negative rewards to draw out the required behaviour in the future. Parents often smack their child (on hand, or butt etc), then see the child become indignant and repeat the behaviour or worsen it. What then? Hit them harder? Unfortunately, for many parents, the answer is yes. Hitting doesn't solve the problem. It might solve it for very young children because they are fearful you will hurt them even worse if they don't stop. They might not make the connection between the activity and the pain, they will most likely connect YOU and the pain. The evidence suggests that the child is most likely to do the latter.

                            Feel free to use that strategy if you like. Best of luck, and I hope you don't injure or scar your children physically or psychologically. A lack of willingness to learn better strategies is weird for me and hard to understand. If I see you or anyone use hitting as a strategy in public, I'll intervene. If it's significant, I'll make a report. I hope you would too, it's our obligation to each other to protect children and encourage parents to use better strategies.

                            • Other on 28/04/2019 - 11:14

                              @ronafios:

                              I hope you don't injure or scar your children physically or psychologically

                              lol.

                              I can't even remember getting a smack, but yes it will effect me for the next 99 years.

                              Also not pouring boiling hot water on myself will also tend not to scare me for life either.

  • belongsinforums on 25/04/2019 - 20:20
    +1

    Make your son play a terrible video game as punishment

    • MagicMikez32 on 25/04/2019 - 22:13
      +2

      Yeah, like E.T.

      • ChillBro on 26/04/2019 - 02:42

        Then you'd be arrested for child abuse.

    • Other on 28/04/2019 - 11:19

      This. Oh Im going to do this.

  • Herbse on 25/04/2019 - 20:30

    You're asking whether it's ok physically discipline a child but what is the reason?
    Are they not listening, being a brat, hitting other children?

    When kids are very young and explaining and reasoning with them isn't possible, using physical discipline to keep them safe would be the only time I used it. Don't cross the road, don't touch the stove etc. Otherwise a stern voice to a young misbehaving child is enough, they're just kids.
    Hitting a child who is being violent to another child is counter productive.

    The way I see it, is what they have done really worthy of a physical attack against them? And will the pain,or the fear of more pain stop them from doing this again for the long term?
    Or is expressing your anger physically just an easier way to deal with it because you don't know, or haven't learnt any other way of disciplining children.

    The problem with being a parent is that it's one of the few things no one is taught how to do. We're thrown into it with no mandatory training, no handbook, no rules on what works and what doesn't work. So many people tend to raise their kids the same way their parents raised them, or some learn from their parents mistakes if they're lucky enough to see that.

    I'd suggest reading some parenting books relating to discipling. They cite various resources and studies which help you chose the correct action based on the individual circumstances. There's no "one way"to discipling children, you have to adapt.

  • MessyG on 25/04/2019 - 20:43
    +3

    What you're getting at here is negative discipline vs positive. The word 'discipline' essentially means 'to teach' so what it is a teaching method. And yeah you can teach through fear (smacking) which will make the kid afraid of you and thus more likely to behave, but will have the effect in the longer time of destroying their relationship with you (and a whole host of other complications they will have to live with the rest of their life), or you can take the harder, but ultimately much more rewarding path of positive teaching or discipline. Behaviour is learned. And children lack the development of the frontal cortex of their brain to inhibit and modify their behaviour. Teaching them that is how it develops.

    I'd start reading this website, it's the go to for most child health practitioners and their families. Have a look at the references at the bottom for more reading, or google 'positive parenting' or 'time in vs time out'.

    https://raisingchildren.net.au/toddlers/behaviour/discipline…

    Someone already mentioned Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and I strongly recommend reading that too. Good luck, it's a hard gig and no one is perfect at it.

    • Aliastar on 25/04/2019 - 21:13

      "Behaviour is learned. And children lack the development of the frontal cortex of their brain to inhibit and modify their behaviour"

      That's why you smack them

    • Laurana on 25/04/2019 - 22:43

      I don’t think that smacking your child is teaching them to be afraid of you. You’re confusing minor punishment with a beating.

  • LoveMySmile on 25/04/2019 - 20:46
    -2

    Physical punishment is OK. Canning or physical abuse isn't.

    When i have kids in the future, my wife will do the rumblings and repetitive reasoning. Whilst i will highlight the main points in limited occasions. I plan to discipline my kids with physical activities such as running, star jumps etc, like the army, but modified for kids depending on their age. You have to give them enough love on the other side, they have to be reminded that they are living the best possible live besides physical exercise WHEN DOING SOMETHING wrong. The kids need to justify YOUR PUNISHMENTS ON THEM in their mind. "Oh i am punished because i did something, why did i do that, i would never do that again, it was so stupid" - this kind of mindset.

    Of course, along the way, they might "hate" you, but this could be balanced out with love on the other side which i mentioned. When they get a bit mature, they would understand the process perfectly, and would thank you for the discipline and the physical stamina/physique that came along as a consequence.

    • MessyG on 25/04/2019 - 21:08
      +2

      May I point out that if you use exercise as punishment, once they're grownup they're going to hate exercising and will not be as grateful as you think. Exercise doesn't make a lot of sense as a consequence.

      • LoveMySmile on 25/04/2019 - 21:17
        -3

        With your logic, if you punish them with reasoning, they are going to hate reasoning in the future?

        No.

        Because these are positive things, which they would understand as time goes by.

        You are going to argue reasoning is not a punishment, to them it is.

        If they are not grateful then they cannot distinguish good vs bad, which comes back to you as a parent, but it will be a different story.

    • try2bhelpful on 25/04/2019 - 21:44
      +1

      https://www.smh.com.au/world/girl-9-run-to-death-as-punishme…

      Why would you want to turn something that provides life long benefits into a punishment?

      • Aliastar on 25/04/2019 - 23:11

        Tell your kids not to think of it as punishment, just good use of time that's helping them with their health.

        • try2bhelpful on 25/04/2019 - 23:31

          I was trying to comment on LoveMySmile’s comments. Exercise should be an enjoyable activity not a form of discipline. I also think parents trying to play good cop bad cop is not the best idea; all that happens is the kids resent the bad cop. Discipline needs to be consistent across both parents and should be based around the child understanding what they are doing wrong and what they should be doing. Picking an arbitrary punishment like excessive exercise is going to put them off exercise, not the behaviour. By all means take them out and burn of their excess exuberance but do it in a positive way.

      • LoveMySmile on 26/04/2019 - 10:05

        Why are you so extreme? How many cases like this in Australia? In the rest of the world? I said modified physical activities depending on age..

        When a plane crashes, it goes onto the news. Are you going to use that to argue all planes are gonna kill you?

        No.

        It is still the safer transport, you're still more likely to be killed in a motor vehicle that you probably utilise everyday.

        Re your 2nd comment:

        No one is playing good cop bad cop, we agree on a parenting direction, and each of us has our own role depending on our suitability.

        I don't think kids need parenting if they understand what are they are doing wrong and what they should be doing..

        Kids are very emotional and sensitive inside. To apply a modified physical training (No, this doesn't mean make them run 100k and die), they can vent their frustration through training, which means easier to communicate and reason with. This also becomes a habit, you don't smash things or go online abusing people through threads or games, you train when you're frustrated and stuck inside.

        Lastly, if the kids just don't listen. Training is superior method vs hit and spam. They will understand when they grow up. When they have tasted the benefits of it..

        • try2bhelpful on 26/04/2019 - 23:09

          You were talking about exercise as punishment. I’m talking about exercise as an enjoyable experience. I know which one is going to lead to a lifetime of enjoying exercise.

  • Name on 25/04/2019 - 21:30
    +4

    I do a combination of time outs and removing things.

    Eg. My 5 year old hurt our cat. So he had a time out, followed up by a lecture and explaining why it was wrong, followed up by no xbox or tablet for 2 weeks.

    Another time he didn't clean up his room, so I gave him a warning and a time limit (10 minutes) I came back and it still wasn't done, so all the toys that were on the ground got thrown in the bin.

    He also gets positive reinforcement with pocket money. But he responds better to negative enforcement rather than positive.

    • chriskq on 26/04/2019 - 11:39

      you stayed strong to 2 weeks of no devices for the one 'mistake'? If so props to you.

      It's crazy how obsessed with devices our 4 yr old is. If he's good (basically not being super super naughty) during the week he might get some monitored use of a phone on the weekend….

      its hard being consistent, but i feel like that is one of hte major points throughout this comment section which i myself will try to recognise more moving forward.

  • try2bhelpful on 25/04/2019 - 22:04
    +5

    My father used to hit us with a leather strap as punishment. It did nothing to improve our behaviour but made us resent our father. Many years later, after my father died, we mentioned this to our mother who denied it had happened. Apparently Dad was doing this without her knowledge, we just assumed she knew and thought it was OK. Kids just think this is normal so they don’t raise it. Assault is unlawful in our society; why should we be able to assault the most vulnerable. I agree with physically removing a child in a dangerous situation but hitting children should not be acceptable.

    • mousie on 25/04/2019 - 22:23
      +2

      Couldn't agree with you more.
      My mother was a classic ostritch and my father used to wait for her to go out to discipline.
      I've since confronted both of them and she still plugs her ears.

      • try2bhelpful on 25/04/2019 - 22:42

        I think my mother, genuinely, didn’t know; she was outraged when she found out. She was no ostrich; if she suspected she would’ve confronted him. We just thought it was normal and he only did it when she was still at work.

    • belongsinforums on 25/04/2019 - 23:17

      dad gave me the belt. mum used her hand or the wooden spoon. lots of built up resentment there lol

    • tap on 26/04/2019 - 10:33

      Sounds like a dysfunctional family.

      • try2bhelpful on 26/04/2019 - 23:18

        personally I think hitting your child teaches it to hit others as “punishment”. I don’t think it moulds the kid into better members of society, there are better methods than that. The problem is, also, when smacking oversteps the line into beating.

  • Rohangiga on 25/04/2019 - 23:02
    +1

    My parents would smack me on the bum (Im 25) when I did something bad. I think it is a good punishment for when you do something bad enough. But there is a time and place for it and there is a distinct difference between something like that and violence against a child.

    • ronafios on 27/04/2019 - 08:32

      Hitting a child is by definition violence against a child.

  • heidisapirate on 25/04/2019 - 23:11
    +5

    When you think about it, kids are the most vulnerable part of our society, and it's not socially acceptable to hit anyone, so why our own kids?

    If a kid is acting out it could very well be because they don't understand WHY what they're doing is wrong, or because they need attention. If it's the first, surely it makes more sense to tell them the situation and talk about why. It improves all sorts of social skills doing that. If they need attention, this is something that should be fixed.

    If they're just acting out, then they do need punishment, but hitting them is more likely to make them fearful of you, or to effect them in other emotional ways. You can always take away a favourite toy or something else they like to teach them that they need to behave in a certain way.

    Being punished physically teaches kids that it's okay to physically hurt someone if you feel they've done something wrong. And it does create a fear. My parents would often hit me if I spoke out of line; and they were always angry when they did it. It made me become really frightened of them when they were angry and kids shouldn't behave because they're afraid of what will happen if they don't, they should behave because they understand WHY what they're doing is wrong.

    • Aliastar on 25/04/2019 - 23:13
      -1

      It makes them fearful of doing the wrong thing.

  • skywards on 26/04/2019 - 01:03

    Would turning off the wifi punishment enough? 🤔

    • chriskq on 26/04/2019 - 11:40

      no wifi password til chores are done i've heard works great. My kids are only 4 and 1 so not at that level yet to properly comment

  • stampella on 26/04/2019 - 02:11
    +3

    I got 3 smacks in my entire childhood. I remember all of them and agree with all of them. Fully deserved.
    It was not smacks as a toddler, but words from my father as a teenager, that actually hurt more and caused weaknesses that took me a long time to mitigate and overcome.

    I also had an experience "raising" one of my nephews. His dad was too busy working and I had been his father figure for about a year (pretty critical year I would say, as he was 2). I was there playing with him when he woke up every morning and was pretty much his reference for everything during the day.
    I never hit him in any way and the only possible "assertion of force" might have only come from playing together…but he totally respected me and feared to disappoint me.
    One day he was about to run down a flight of stairs, escaping his grandad clutch, laughing in full defiance to his grandad and father pleas…until he crossed my stare. He ran to my legs, crying and telling me that he would have never tried to run down the stairs again.
    Coincidentally (?) the same happened constantly with my dog. My father would break 2 inch thick sticks on his back with no effect, while I only needed to look at him to have him calm down and comply.

    Sadly the stare trick doesn't work with my wife, but I'm hopeful I'll learn and effective stare for her too.

    Not a dad yet, but in my priority list to become an effective parent I will place first the need to be there with them as they learn the world. It might be easy to disrespect a present father, but it is impossible to respect an absent father.

  • cheeseburger on 26/04/2019 - 03:55

    Physical punishment still exists in Malaysian schools. Just recently my cousin's 12 year old son was made to do 300 squats for not wearing his school uniform. He couldn't walk for a couple of days and had to be hospitalised.

  • Cartman2530 on 26/04/2019 - 07:50

    My kids get one (and only one) smack if they have done something wrong that they would deserve a smack for, but they absolutely will get a reason why they got it.

    I think that people that beat their kids or give them a smack without letting them know why is wrong. The child must understand why they have gotten smacked, otherwise they will not kerb their behaviour that they got a smack for.

  • stumo on 26/04/2019 - 08:37
    +6

    My dad beat me when I was a kid, for pretty much any disciplinary reason. It was the go-to punishment at home. And a "clip round the ear" if the cane wasnt handy.

    I lost all reapect for him once I had my own children. I have some respect for my mum because she used to tell dad "not the head" when he would do it.

    But really, how could anyone of sound mind think it is ok to beat a small child for any reason.

    I have 3 very well behaved children, often getting comments from other patents and older people about how well behaved they are. It helps that my wife is a primary school teacher so we have strategies. The kids have never had a hand layed on them.

  • idonotknowwhy on 26/04/2019 - 08:56
    +1

    Do you want your kid to do the right thing because they understand why, or because they don't want to be hit?
    "I'll wash my hands every time because they're dirty and we don't want to get sick".
    "I'll wash my hands when mum's near by, because of I don't, mum will hit me!"

    • Laurana on 26/04/2019 - 10:38

      Do you really think that everyone in this thread is hitting their kids for not washing their hands when they’re dirty?

      I think, going by the responses, that it is safe to say that parents here are also talking to their kids and ensuring they understand what the right thing is and why it is important.

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