Parked in a Disable Parking Spot (without Authority) - Did RMS Waive My Demerit Point So I Can't Use My Clean Driving Record?

aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 12:35
Last edited 03/07/2019 - 16:35

About a couple of weeks ago, I went all stupid in my head and parked in a disabled spot (my limbs are working perfectly fine) to pickup takeaway on a Sunday evening at 6:50pm. I knew what I was doing. I assumed I'll be OK. Well, I wasn't. I f****d up.

I got slugged with a $561 parking fine (ouch!) RMS Parking Fines and Demerits

The offence according to the RMS website also carries 1 demerit point. Please see above pdf link: Last Page, Fine level: 7.

I appealed my parking fine on the basis that I have a 13+ year good behaviour record of no speeding or red light offences and since I copped a demerit point, to waive my offence.

I got a response from RMS couple of days ago. "We can only consider driving history for an offence that incurs demerit points. No demerit points apply for this penalty. Appeal rejected"

Did RMS waive my demerit point so I have no grounds of using my good behaviour record? Good behaviour record can only be used on grounds of when a demerit point is issued. I should have copped a demerit point as per the law, but it seems like they've waived it off and now I have no grounds to appeal it.

Can anyone help with options? Is it worth taking it to court on the weird suggestion that I should cop a demerit point and hence good behaviour record should apply?

Updates:

  • Seemed like I got done by 650A (1) instead of Sec 650A (1), former carrying no demerit point. Hence, appeal is invalid :)
  • Residents in NSW (where I reside) and a couple of other states can appeal for speeding and red-light camera fines if you carry a 10+ years clean driving record, if you weren't already aware (thanks Spackbace).. I thought it was a nation wide thing.
Automotive

Comments

  • GG57 on 03/07/2019 - 12:42
    +43

    I'm pretty sure most responses on here will be to pay the fine, as you did the crime.

    BTW, disabilities are not limited to limbs.

    • Yummy on 03/07/2019 - 12:59
      +5

      Thank god the inventions of viagra, or else we have to apply for one.

    • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 13:01
      +4

      Yeah I'm aware of what most responses will be. "Do the crime, pay the fine." And that's fair enough. It does apply to this situation.

      But since I'm eligible for a good driving record appeal for the time when I receive a demerit, if I can't use my record in this instance… then really what's the point?

      I've already said it… I f****d up.

      • Paul Atreides on 04/07/2019 - 04:55
        +15

        Once in 13 years is honestly a solid effort, wd.

        The rule exists because people aren't perfect. So many people on their high horses.

        • tessel on 04/07/2019 - 06:33
          +43

          Just means not caught in 13 years.

          • Ozpit on 04/07/2019 - 09:28
            +4

            @tessel: I wonder how many times OP had previously parked in that same disabled parking spot without scoring a ticket when picking up his Sunday night pizza.

            • aurotaro on 04/07/2019 - 12:01
              +1

              @Ozpit: Never previously at that spot or a disabled spot in general.

              Was at a mates place hanging to watch the cricket. Thought I'd chip in by grabbing the take away since he was sponsoring the drinks (the joint doesn't do Uber Eats etc.).

              Hopefully that answered your prejudged notion. It wasn't pizza either.

              • Ozpit on 04/07/2019 - 16:32
                -2

                @aurotaro: That was your second mistake. Every self-respecting Aussie cricket fan knows that pizza is the only authentic tucker to chomp on between beers while watching telly cricket. But hey, I'm being prejudiced again - in assuming you were drinking beers and it was an Aussie team you were cheering.

                • PAZMAT on 04/07/2019 - 19:34
                  +6

                  @Ozpit:

                  self-respecting Aussie cricket fan

                  Isn't that an oxymoron? :P

          • macrocephalic on 04/07/2019 - 09:35

            @tessel: Not casting dispersions on the OP, but that's true. If all you do is drive to and from work every day then it's pretty difficult to get any fines. Police rarely book people for anything other than speeding, and if you're in congestion then you're not speeding.

          • bringbring on 04/07/2019 - 09:39

            @tessel: Haha, yeah exactly: 'Once in 13 years is honestly a solid effort, wd'

          • aurotaro on 04/07/2019 - 12:02
            -1

            @tessel: Correct, have I driven 70 in a kmph zone? Yes I have. But there's a reason the record exists, because it doesn't happen very often.

            How's your record and do you get caught quite often? Do you speed often? :)

            • tessel on 04/07/2019 - 13:12
              +2

              @aurotaro: I actually wasn't casting judgement. I merely corrected someone's statement. We all break the law and most of it is probably accidental, going too fast and didnt realize. However, since I've obviously touched a nerve I will add I've not been caught ever, 23 years or so. Although, I have NEVER parked in a disabled spot. There's a special place in hell reserved for people that do that.

          • SeVeN11 on 05/07/2019 - 10:05

            @tessel: My high school teacher taught me this, "nothing is a crime until you get caught"

        • aurotaro on 04/07/2019 - 12:03

          Thanks buddy. Appreciate the kindness to what was a very simple question, "have RMS got it wrong?".

          They did, and unfortunately aside from spending $1000s in court fees, I can't contest it, which is sh*t.

          • This Guy on 04/07/2019 - 14:51
            -1

            @aurotaro: You said you parked in a disabled spot due to your laziness.

            People are deploring you because you behaved deplorably.

            You asked a tone deaf question.

            A more extreme example of a tone deaf question is, 'I ran over and killed a kid. How do I get out of the manslaughter charges?'

            If you replied, would you focus on the kid in that question, or getting OP out of the manslaughter charge?

      • jorf on 04/07/2019 - 08:04
        -3

        I knew what I was doing. I assumed I'll be OK.

        What you meant to write was "I knew what I was doing. I think the rules don't apply to me, and because i've never been caught before, I shouldn't be penalised."

        Why should a "good driving record" get you out of a fine? You still broke the rules, so why does it matter what you have done in any point before now?

        • wozz on 04/07/2019 - 09:08
          +7

          Not saying whether or not a good driving record should get someone off a fine, and i dont think OP is either.. But the fact is that in certain circumstances it does, hence why he asked.
          He isn't suggesting he did the right thing, or that any rules shouldn't apply.

          Just FYI

          • jorf on 04/07/2019 - 10:16
            -4

            @wozz: I doubt this is the first time OP has parked in a disabled space. It's just the first time they've been caught. And OP IS trying to weasle out of a fine and suggesting that a "good driving record" should give you leeway to do whatever.

            • aurotaro on 04/07/2019 - 12:04

              @jorf: You seem to doubt a lot of things. I haven't parked previously ever in a disabled spot. But would you actually believe me since you've already made your mind up?

          • aurotaro on 04/07/2019 - 12:06

            @wozz: Thanks Wozz. People can't seem to fathom using a Clean Driving Record to get out of a fine which is perfectly applicable via law. I lose my CDR for the next 10 years and have to 'earn' it again by being a sensible driver.

            • terrys on 06/07/2019 - 09:05

              @aurotaro: That part I do find unfair - parking tickets were originally issued against the vehicle, as it is not neccessarily the owner/registered operator who parked it, so "points" wouldn't apply…

              • futureminime on 15/07/2019 - 12:08

                @terrys: Applying 'points' makes sense though, and you nominate the driver who was operating the vehicle. It means company vehicles and rich people can't flaunt things like disabled spaces.

      • berry580 on 04/07/2019 - 12:45
        +3

        The point is to be a decent human being. Instead of having the expectation of being rewarded.

      • luffyex2010 on 05/07/2019 - 09:54

        I don't think you will get deducted demerit point for parking offenses, its only driving and traffic offenses. I got a fine for parking at a VIP parking zone on a street during Easter show….didn't even know it exist as I park along with the other drivers who all got fined too lmao. Sometimes these ticketing officer just know how to clear their quotas.

        Just plain ignorance to parked on a disable spot. Never do that again.

        Other than that your 50% discount on renewal of license is not affected 😁

    • HeWhoKnows on 04/07/2019 - 09:35

      OP admitted he had a mental issue at the time

      • aurotaro on 04/07/2019 - 12:04

        Certainly did, and happy to admit it.

  • Ryanek on 03/07/2019 - 12:43
    +16

    Wait, let me get this straight, you want to go to court and demand they give you the demerit point that you rightfully earned in the hopes that they let off for good behaviour?

    Well that's enough for me today.

    • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 13:08
      -4

      Yes. It's OzBargain … it's never enough for today. You'll be back for the Eneloops.

  • spackbace on 03/07/2019 - 12:45
    +13

    Inb4 disableduser365451

    Oh and FWIW they seem to have charged you for:

    Park vehicle designated disability parking space

    Same $$ amount, no demerit

    Either way, I don't think many people will defend you asking to get off this…

    • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 13:05

      Thanks for pointing out the other offence, I may have missed it. The fine slip says Offence: 83517. Googling that fine doesn't seem to lead to a particular page with that number.

      Thanks :)

      • Thrift on 03/07/2019 - 15:50
        +1

        Law Part Code 83517

        SDRO Codes: 83517 — Stop in disabled parking area without current permit displayed
        …
        Current Penalties
        Demerit Points — 1 Points (MAX)
        Fine — 572 Dollar/s (MAX)

        • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 15:52
          +2

          Thanks, I appreciate you digging that up. It didn't come up on my google searches.

          Still not sure why I didn't cop the demerit point though.

          • ATangk on 04/07/2019 - 09:55

            @aurotaro: Demerit points are generally only used for actual driving offences. Unless you were stopped or parked and actively blocking a roadway, it would make sense that demerit points were not applicable.

            • aurotaro on 04/07/2019 - 12:07

              @ATangk: In the pdf file I linked in my post, standing in a disabled spot without authority cops a 1 demerit point.

              Same as the link above from Thrift. https://lawcodes.judcom.nsw.gov.au/lawcodes/law-part/view/bo…

              • ATangk on 04/07/2019 - 13:49
                +2

                @aurotaro: It says (MAX) next to each offence. They do not have to fine you the maximum each time.

                • Ozpit on 04/07/2019 - 15:59

                  @ATangk: Any OzB members ever been booked by a cop/grey ghost for a lesser $ than the so-called max fine as officially listed (apart from being cautioned and let off without a ticket)? Does that mean every offence that lists a maximum $ fine also has a minimum $ penalty? Or is the minimum the discretion of a magistrate if the 'offender' challenges the fine in court?

    • smartazz104 on 04/07/2019 - 07:38
      +19

      Inb4 disableduser365451

      Technically he'd then be eligible to park in that spot /s

  • dazweeja on 03/07/2019 - 12:49
    +3

    Are you sure the offence wasn't "Park vehicle designated disability parking space" which doesn't have any demerit points (same page, 6 rows below "Stand vehicle in disabled persons parking space without authority")?

    • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 13:06
      -5

      Just seen it. Seems like it eh. Cheeky buggers. Thanks :)

      • Icecold5000 on 03/07/2019 - 13:23
        +21

        I doubt you went stupid in the head. You decided to consciously break the law. Own it.

        • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 15:50
          +4

          I did own it… however when you're on the forum you're blinded by that and head straight to the comments :)

          • Icecold5000 on 03/07/2019 - 16:24
            +5

            @aurotaro: You’re trying to qualify your actions to mitigate our response. Properly stated it would:

            “I parked in a disabled car park and did not care at the time that I was breaking the law and inconveniencing the disabled. I only care because I was fined and subjected to demerit points.”

            Why not take the penalty and be done with it instead of trying to squirm out.

            • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 16:30
              +4

              @Icecold5000: When you're driving at 62kmph in a 60kmph zone, why not head to the cops and ask to be fined?

              You really are ice-cold.

              • Icecold5000 on 03/07/2019 - 21:38
                +7

                @aurotaro: That’s not the point. You’re an intelligent human being with agency not a child. You decided to roll the dice and see if you could get away with it and you didn’t. Don’t insult yourself by claiming you went stupid in the head.

                • aurotaro on 04/07/2019 - 12:09
                  +1

                  @Icecold5000: Yeah I did. I rolled the dice and thought I'd get away with it. I didn't. Accepted.

                  Law also says I should cop a fine and demerit. Law also says if you cop a demerit and have a 10+ year CDR, you are excused.

                  Can I claim the above as per law? Or would you just like the law to apply to certain situations that suit you.

                  • The Araldited Wallet on 04/07/2019 - 17:15
                    +1

                    @aurotaro: Mate, you parked in a disabled parking spot. Go and take a look in the mirror, and work out the rest for yourself.

              • Milk tea on 04/07/2019 - 21:34

                @aurotaro: If you drove at 62kmph in a 60 zoneyou wouldnt actually get fined as its -2 with a fixed camera and -3 for unfixed lol

      • terrys on 04/07/2019 - 08:15
        +4

        They're cheeky?
        Running a red light or creeping over the limit once every 10 years or so can be seen as inadvertant. Your action, by your own admission, was deliberate.

        Disabled spaces are there because people need them, not because they want them.

        • aurotaro on 04/07/2019 - 12:11

          Yeah, they're cheeky for not giving me the demerit point, so I have no grounds to appeal. Which I would if I copped a demerit point.

          • terrys on 04/07/2019 - 17:14
            +2

            @aurotaro: Eer- You have no grounds to appeal, your action was concious and deliberate. They have also cut off your chance to make a special plea for what could be considered an inadvertant mistake.

  • Ocker on 03/07/2019 - 13:23
    +31

    What the hell has claiming lenience because of a clean DRIVING record got to do with fact you parked illegally in a disabled parking spot?
    Such selfish and inconsiderate behavior should cop double the amount you were fined

    • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 15:50
      -3

      ok Ocker

    • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 15:54
      +1

      Because you can claim lenience (if you have a good driving record) if you are caught for speeding and crossing a red light camera. Were you aware of that?

      That's selfish and inconsiderate behavior too by the way, but you can appeal and win it within reasonable accounts.

      • spackbace on 03/07/2019 - 16:27

        but you can appeal and win it within reasonable accounts.

        Only 1 or 2 states allow this.

      • Gandalf the Thrifty on 03/07/2019 - 20:54
        +1

        If you are speeding and running red light you can get leniency? Simply because you haven't been caught previously?

        What genius law maker came up with that…

        • pegaxs on 03/07/2019 - 23:44
          +2

          There is generally no leniency in NSW for red light camera tickets as mentioned in a previous post. So all that yap yap above about it is moot. Also, speeding in school zones or speeding above 20km/h over the posted limit is an automatic no leniency flag as well…

        • aurotaro on 04/07/2019 - 12:13
          -1

          Correct, Gandalf. If you haven't been done for 10+ years and hence have a CDR, your first offence is usually forgiven (within reasonable limits). Quite obviously if you were above 0.05% booze or high speeding, that doesn't apply.

  • redforever on 03/07/2019 - 13:45

    wouldn't 650A(1) applies in your case as you parked at a disabled parking space? This carries no demerits point.
    Not sure of the difference between standing and parking though.

    Edit: Ignore this. Didn't see the response above.

    • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 16:06

      Thanks for replying. I actually didn't see the other one as I had mentioned. Oh well, looks like pay the fine it is!

      Thanks for being kind in your response :)

  • pegaxs on 03/07/2019 - 13:59
    +10

    Oh… so you’re one of those people. Pay the fine.

    • spackbace on 03/07/2019 - 14:10
      +2

      That was short for you lol

      • pegaxs on 03/07/2019 - 15:48
        +9

        Just wait till afternoon shift get here and this thread blows up into a 4 page, 300 reply festival of the dumbarse…

        and I’m sure there will be that one person who will come on and reply with a stupid comment like… “well, maybe the car manufacturer should be found negligent because they didn’t have a system in the car that warned OP that they were parking like a douche canoe…”

        • This Guy on 04/07/2019 - 14:57
          +1

          well, maybe the car manufacturer should be found negligent because they didn’t have a system in the car that warned OP that they were parking like a douche canoe…

          pegaxs, when you are right, you are right.

          OP, who made your car so we can boycott/send bikies?

    • Baysew on 03/07/2019 - 14:15
      +6

      I was just grateful the the forums reverted to form. Thought today was "help me win an oven" Spam Day.

    • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 15:56
      -7

      Tell us about your perfect life one day when you wish to.

      • pegaxs on 03/07/2019 - 16:15
        +8

        Well, it starts out by not parking in parking spots reserved for people who need them more than me. The sense of entitlement in your post and replies is astounding.

        You took up a parking space you didn’t need, possibly stopped someone who does need it, just so you could save yourself an extra 5 seconds walk. You then admit fault and go on to say that you deserve some form of leniency.

        Sure, I’m not perfect, but at least I own my mistakes and have enough respect for myself and others to not park where it has the possibility to affect someone less able bodied than myself.

        • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 16:20
          -4

          can you direct me to the part where I didn't own my mistake?

          • pegaxs on 03/07/2019 - 17:36
            +5

            @aurotaro:

            You then admit fault

            Please, direct me to the part I said you didn’t own up to the mistake…

            And I said that I “own my mistakes”, meaning that I take care of making the situation right and/or paying any penalty involved, not to try and find loop holes and weasel my way out of it. This is a long way in advance of just owning up, which is basically only “admitting fault”.

            The mere fact that you have posted a question requesting options to get out of paying the ticket is evidence in itself that you don’t want to own your decision to park in a handicap parking space. Adult up. Own the mistake, not just own up to it. Pay the fine and move on.

              • pegaxs on 03/07/2019 - 23:30
                +9

                @aurotaro: I will be the first to admit that I don’t have a lot of respect for people who knowingly break the law and then try to weasel out of the fine.

                I also don’t have a lot of respect for able bodied people who think disabled parking spots are there for their convenience and not that of disabled people.

                I have enough self respect that if I parked like an arsehole and received a ticket, I would just cop it sweet and say “fair call” and pay the fine.

                I also have enough respect for other people, that if a spot is reserved for disabled drivers, I leave it for them to use.

                Respect is shown when respect is given. All you have shown is that you have respect for neither yourself, nor others.

                You might want to read the dictionary. That’s where I got my definition of “own” from. To hold, to have, to possess. To emphasise ownership. As opposed to: own up… “admit to having done something wrong or embarrassing.” Which is basically what you have done here.

                • aurotaro on 04/07/2019 - 12:17
                  -1

                  @pegaxs: From Google: "admit or acknowledge that something is the case or that one feels a certain way."

                  "Weasel out of the fine" - You mean where the state law exists that I as a citizen can use? Or do you want to change the law because it suits your ego?

                  • pegaxs on 04/07/2019 - 16:39

                    @aurotaro: The only one with an ego here is the person who knowingly parked in a spot reserved for disabled drivers and now wants to find a way out of paying the associated fine. So, when you knowingly parked there, was it arrogance, ignorance or entitlement?

                    The state law, the same state I am in, says that someone cannot park in a parking spot reserve for disabled drivers unless they have the appropriate parking permit. Attached to this legislation is a fine for disobeying the rule.

    • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 16:07
      -2

      yeah, one of those ones with a pretty good driving record and $561+0.4% surcharge short ;)

    • aspirepranesh on 04/07/2019 - 09:12

      This :)

      • aurotaro on 04/07/2019 - 12:18

        Hahaha, nice one.

  • askme69 on 03/07/2019 - 15:52
    +2

    No,the person who done your review sent the wrong reply (ticked the wrong wording box).

    PS: When you get a traffic demerit, that could have been cautioned by your CDR (Clear Driving Record), this offence has screwed that for you. So it is a double whammy.

    • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 15:58
      -1

      Thanks, yes that's what I was getting to. That, they haven't applied the 'harsher' or correct fine which I could have appealed for.

      I would argue that it isn't a double whammy as the CDR still stands and I'll continue browsing through this lovely forum finding saving$$ tips.

  • GG57 on 03/07/2019 - 16:11

    Have you paid the fine yet?
    You mentioned the incident was a couple of weeks ago; time to move on rather than dwell on your actions.

    • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 16:16

      Oh don't you worry, I dwelled on that the whole Sunday night. Worked some overtime that week to make up that extra $$$$. I was sh*tting bricks trying to tell the missus what I'd done not realizing this forum was worse. Hah!

      Fine - 16th June
      Appeal - 17th June
      Reply - 30th June… yes Sunday again.. could have been the same parking inspector doubling his shifts ;)
      Forum Topic - 3rd July 12:40pm
      Fine Paid - 3rd July 4:08pm with 0.4% credit card surcharge. Ouch Ouch ;)
      Forum Topic Closure - ?????

      • xuqi on 03/07/2019 - 18:12
        +5

        Yep, whenever you feel like you're going to cop it from the missus, feel free to stop OZB forums.

        You'll appreciate her more…

        • aurotaro on 03/07/2019 - 21:36
          +1

          Certainly seems that way!

      • terrys on 04/07/2019 - 08:20
        +2

        "I was sh*tting bricks trying to tell the missus "

        That's when you get to "own" what you did Squire…

      • cooni on 04/07/2019 - 15:06

        Your points (if any) will only apply some time after paying the fine.

  • Macgyver on 03/07/2019 - 21:53
    +5

    I wouldn't worry about all the harsh replies. $561 is a lot of money and there wouldn't be anyone alive that wouldn't think about how they could get out of it.

    Saying that you'll just have to cop it in the chin this time round.

    • aurotaro on 04/07/2019 - 12:19

      Cheers certainly seems that way. I'm just annoyed that they removed the clause of applying a demerit point so I had no grounds to use my CDR.

  • [Deactivated] on 03/07/2019 - 21:56
    +23

    As a holder of a Disability Parking Permit not enough low life drivers are booked for parking there.

    You can't accidentally park there.

    Glad you were caught.

    • Icecold5000 on 03/07/2019 - 22:27
      +3

      They should have their cars seized for a month. There are hardly any disabled spaces around. Alternatively they should be forced to ferry the disabled around every weekend for that period.

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