eBay Seller Sold Damaged Replacement Device as 'Brand New' Tried to Force Me to Accept It

Update:

Apple rang me and said they’ve been investigating the device.
Apple devices can only be activated by opening the device.
Device was delivered to me on 22nd August
Device was first activated/opened 17 July (5 weeks before me)
Apple believes it’s possible the device was refurbished/repaired/replaced.
Then sold to me as 'Brand New' in hopes the consumer wouldn't notice.
Replaced/Refurbished/Repaired devices do not hold the same value as 'brand new' devices
So for the store, withholding that was in their best interest

And

Apple devices that arrive “Damaged on Arrival” are replaced
It’s easy for any supplier to do so with Apple
You cannot replace a refurbished device
You absolutely cannot replace a third party repaired device

No wonder the seller bailed when I said I wanted the device back to investigate with Apple/ACCC.

Was the damage on the top casing done during any replacement/repair?

I don't know yet.

PROOF: https://imgur.com/a/Ectbjs1

TLDR: Seller lied about selling a brand new macbook, it was damaged and replaced, tried to force me to accept it, once i said i wanted the ACCC involved, seller tried to get out of the sales transaction by refunding me, but no money has arrived and that doesn't mean they didn't commit a crime.

I purchased a 'brand new' MacBook 15"

Seller said it was in original condition, sealed, never activated and brand new as if from an Apple store.

Arrived and was damaged with a scratch

Rang Apple and Apple notified me the device was activated 5 weeks before my purchase

Get a call from Apple and Apple states the only way to activate a device is to open it and setup

Apples confirms refurbs and replacements keep their old warranty, stating it's likely it could be replacement or refurbished device

Seller gets item on Tuesday, by the Friday, still Apple and myself calling each day to ask for a replacement, each day seller says "we can do a replacement"

By Friday afternoon, seller still hasn't begun the replacement process, ignores me for a replacement

Friday afternoon i ask for the item back and to take it up with consumer affairs and Apple as i am unhappy i was sold a misleading product

Seller try's to initiate a refund and cuts of contact

Still don't have money in my PayPal or bank account and the computer is still at the seller.

closed Comments

            • @ExtraSalt: I think people are unaware of the rights under consumer law and think a refund is acceptable at all times.

              The problem with that is, what if their refund amount is less than the value?

              What if the refund doesn't take into account other costs?

              What if the refund is for a house after sale and the original owners does the refund and just moves their shit in.

              Just because you do a refund doesn't change the title of the goods. If that was the case. That would make a really dodgy sales environment.

              Title of goods is clear. You need both parties to accept before going ahead. You can't just force a result on another person, if you do, that person has rights to fight that decision.

          • +1

            @Fancy: Yes, left happy feedback. Cannot change it. I generally always do positive feedback, even before opening items, which I see now is a big mistake, and that I didn't open a PayPal dispute before sending (big mistake, I'm not a professional eBayer) and even when I get screwed by some Chinese orders, still leave positive with a note. Notice, the "would have liked tracking" yeah, that's my only negative comment. Because the item is worth $3500 and they sent it via the cheapest normal post, no insurance, tracking was poor took days to get to me, but the return I did cost $5-10 more than normal post and arrived next day with better tracking/reliability/safety to the sellers door.

            The only negative I've left is when the seller lies that the item is in HK and they said it was in AU. I just hate that.

            • @checkingthisout: $3500? In the screen shot provided it's a $2799 laptop, and you got $200 off with a coupon?

  • +33

    Member Since
    47 min ago

    Blargh, could've guessed.

    • +2

      Agreed. Also I don't get why a bargain site is the place to complain about this anyway. Seems like they wanted some sort of validation.

        • +3

          You was wrong.

        • +14

          We do. And we're telling you you don't have a leg to stand on. So how about taking that advice instead of continuing with your tantrum?

            • +17

              @checkingthisout: Apparently better than you are.

                • +10

                  @checkingthisout:

                  i'm not informed

                  Yes, that much is obvious.

                  If you have actual informative evidence for their case. Please show it so i become more learned.

                  Hybroid already has. I'll copy his link:

                  https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/media/347756/kit-acl-factsheet…

                  Minor – it can be fixed within a reasonable time.
                  You must give the store the chance to fix the problem.
                  They choose whether to refund, repair or replace.

                  They've chosen to refund you.

                  This is the SECOND time this exact part has been spelled out for you. I hope you won't need a third.

                  • -7

                    @HighAndDry: A mark on the top case is not 'minor' it has to be completely removed. Have you ever purchased an Apple product? Seemingly minor issues take major repairs.

              • -1

                @HighAndDry: Literally everything you said took a day to debunk. And all of it turns out to be bull****

        • I thought bargainers would have good insight into ACL and buying online. Specifically that this site is targeted towards commerce. That's what i came for.

          Oh shot. I’m going to quit my Commerce degree and save thousands of dollars as I could be gaining invaluable insights and experience right here! Thanks for enlightening me. Yay, time to use the money saved to buy myself a high yield investment Tesla!

    • +2

      Maybe they are too embarrassed to use their real account. OZbargainers can be brutal, they can even downvote stuff sometimes, if the mods let them.

  • +2

    bummer for the loss, but this is why when buying high value products I usually take either photos or videos of unboxing when it arrives. Just saves time in claiming process with irrefutable evidence of faulty product on arrival rather than being accused of breaking it yourself.

    Some shops probably can't allow a return of a faulty product to a customer just based on warranty allowance in their own drawn up policy to cover themselves?

    • +1

      Yep, lesson learned, buy Apple direct. Or at least, take a video whilst doing it if over $$$ amount.

  • -5

    LOL give them bad feedback and never buy from them again, problem solved

    • Already gave them positive -_- can't even get that satisfaction.

      • Wow thats your fault, they ran away free.

        • Positives all round on my eBay. Will start waiting from now on. Never had to edit one.

    • On what ground/s would you leave a bad feedback for the seller?

      • They don't. Chinese sellers that say they ship from Sydney but instead send the item from HK do though.

  • What would you like to see happen , OP?

    • -4

      I wanted my computer back so i could go directly to the manufacturer for a remedy and not the seller. So i could take the ACCC/APPLE case to Apple, as is in the ACL. By the seller taking the item i cannot do that.

      Apple without the ACCC was becoming more and more receptive to my concerns. They rang me 4-5 times a day for 2 days to check in and called the store 4-5 times. They were trying to resolve the matter and i believe at some point i may have gotten somewhere with Apple instead of the seller.

      • +8

        By the seller taking the item i cannot do that

        You gave them the item. Once they have it, they can choose whether to refund or replace. You haven't really lost any money. You've been refunded the amount you've paid.

      • so why did you threaten them with accc if they were going to return the macbook as is?

    • +1

      So how I read OP is - they were enjoying the attention Apple was giving them, and don't understand why the seller didn't lavish the same amount of attention on them, and now they want the macbook back so they can continue to… seek… attention from Apple. I wonder what that kind of behaviour is called.

      • -5

        You're a very negatively aggressive person. Is that common to be on this forum?

        • +7

          If there was a way to be positively aggressive, I'd be all over it. And no, most people on the forum are commonly more intelligent so my snark doesn't get as much of a workout. This thread is what people would call a… target-rich environment. Latest example:

          A mark on the top case is not 'minor'

          Does the mark affect your use of the laptop? Does the mark affect how the laptop functions as a laptop? Does the mark significantly decrease the useful life of the laptop?

          In what way is a purely cosmetic mark not minor?

          • -4

            @HighAndDry: Snark isn't a sign of intelligence but (KK)

            • +10

              @checkingthisout: Oh I know, its cousin, sarcasm, is the lowest form of wit after all. It is however, a passable source of entertainment.

              Look, I know you're mad you missed out on the discounts and coupons you used, but the ACL is pretty clear the seller gets to choose to refund you in the case of a minor defect. A cosmetic mark is minor, and the fact the seller chooses means implicitly they don't need your confirmation.

              That's pretty much it unfortunately. Take the money, add some more, buy another one. You were just too eager in this case - usually you talk to the seller first, let them offer a solution, before going to other parties like Apple or ACCC.

              ACCC enforces the law. To businesses they're a bit like the police. If you told someone you were just chatting with that you were going to call the police, they'd back away slowly too. That's what the seller did here - the safest option for them was just to give you back all the money you'd paid and wash their hands of this.

              • -5

                @HighAndDry: I don't think you're listening:
                "usually you talk to the seller first, let them offer a solution"

                1. I rang them and they said "We can replace it but it's difficult" - Yes because they sold me a device that was 1 month old not 1 day old.

                2. Apple rang them and they told Apple "We can replace it"

                I think you must be confused, the seller was the first to know and it was shipped back to them at my cost Express the next day it was opened. It arrived at their office, where for 4 days they told Apple "we can replace it" but then never contacted their supplier once to initiate the repair/replacement. Which is all done by Apple.

                You know how i know they never asked? Cause Apple told me. They repair and replace these devices. They have final say.

                • +6

                  @checkingthisout:

                  They have final say.

                  This is where you're mistaken. You bought it from the seller. Your legal relationship is with the seller. The seller has final say, so long as they're acting within the law. That's why I've said Apple has nothing to do with this. Apple only has obligations - to you - if the product is defective, they have no rights to tell the seller how to resolve the case.

                  • -2

                    @HighAndDry: When authorised resellers have issues they contact their upstream provider who then contacts Apple, Apple directly told me that during the week they were never contacted for the replacement/repair.

                    Authorised resellers have contracts with Apple to become Authorised resellers. I am told all of this over the phone. That's why Apples internal legal team rang me today mate. They also opened an investigation into the seller.

                    I don't think you're quite clued in on that process.

                    • +7

                      @checkingthisout:

                      Authorised resellers have contracts with Apple

                      Yes, you're not a party to that contract.

                      I don't think you're quite clued in on that process.

                      None of Apple's relationship with their resellers directly affect you here. Also:

                      That's why Apples internal legal team rang me today mate.

                      Hahahah this is how I know you're now just making BS up. Alright, it's too late for this, have a good night.

                      • -1

                        @HighAndDry: Now you're just throwing around information as if it's factual or correct. Which makes me believe nothing you've said has weight.

        • +3

          In defense of HighAndDry, you seem very unreasonable given the circumstances.

          If a seller has in his/her possession the stuff you returned, there is nothing much you can do other than receive a refund.

          Anything more, you are asking the law to legalize what most if not all people here construed as 'confiscation'. You want a seller to abide by your demand to hand over his Apple Macbook even though the item is in the seller's possession.

          If that is not legalized confiscation you are asking for, I don't know what is.

          • -3

            @burningrage: But that seller has my Macbook and my money. So it's his possession because he physically has it? Would that mean a dealership owns my car whilst repairing it?

            If you're sure about that, send me a link where that is the case and i'll gladly accept it.

            I really do need that link. No one who has the argument of "seller now owns your property whilst in their possession" can actually prove it with any citation.

            I can see a seller must give notice before doing a repair/replacement, i'd love to find where they get to make the decision without the customers consent.

            "Businesses have to give the customer a written repair notice before they start repairs on electronic goods like mobile phones or computers. The notice must say:"

            • @checkingthisout: "But that seller has my Macbook and my money"

              Not anymore. You have been given a refund so you're back to where you were. You got your money back and the Macbook was returned to the seller.

              You probably don't need a law for that. It's common sense.

      • +2

        Stop reading between the lines , it'll get you in trouble. I've done that a few times before and I've gained a little pet-negger :)

        • +3

          I'd take it as a badge of honour. Though those types of people generally find so many people offensive they run out of daily negs or move onto their latest "outrage" pretty fast I've found.

          • +3

            @HighAndDry: Your strategy has worked! OP is telling you to cheer up after he has "lost hundreds of dollars "!!!

            +1

            • @[Deactivated]: You can't down vote for 30 days lol should i say you're as informed on that as you are on the ACL?

              • +4

                @checkingthisout:

                You can't down vote for 30 days

                ???

                Re. your ACL comment, please feel free to take legal actions against the ebay seller and keep us inform of the proceedings…

                Grabs popcorn …

                • @[Deactivated]: That comment wasn't for you, you cannot upvote or down vote on ozbargain for the first 30 days :)

        • +2

          Do people actually get upset about being down voted? No need to get overly angry about a subject on a forum. He's said his piece multiple times. Yet, i still don't have the question to my answer where the seller is explicit in the final decision. The ACL i keep getting sent isn't clear on that.

          • +3

            @checkingthisout: Nah, I don't :) It amuses me. In fact, it is quite flattering.

  • +12

    God. Put up the L plate here for forums as well.

      • So u r confirmed Troll? Ain’t it? Reporting u to mod.

  • +3

    Your concerns are addressed as follows:

    The definition of a major or minor fault is determined by how long it would take to fix. A cover is likely to be minor as the seller could replace the cover with another cover.

    In terms of who decides what it is the seller who decides whether to replace or repair - see here

    https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/products-and-services/refund…

    Look under minor problems with products. It is not your option.

    Please note that these laws may vary from state to state as we don’t have uniform consumer laws. As we don’t know which state you are in it is not possible to provide you with the appropriate link to your state unless in my case you happen to be in Victoria. People are here to help, however you need to understand that not everyone has the time nor inclination to go search for you when really you could do this yourself.

    With regard to the loss/discount you can ask eBay to provide you with a replacement voucher since you technically have not brought anything after returning it. EBay will normally agree to it as it was out of your control. However there is a proviso to this. If you have already complained too many times then they may not be able to grant you a replacement discount voucher. You also normally have to advise them of the item you want to buy and they will create that voucher for you.

    If you don’t succeed with the first customer support person on eBay ask to speak to a supervisor. When speaking to them however you need to be nice about it. Don’t make any threats, state your case and do it in an inoffensive and logical manner. The aim of any discussion is to gain the other side’s acceptance of your plight and then get them to agree to your solution. It’s the old saying of attracting bees with honey instead of killing them with smoke. You won’t win that way.

    Regardless of who you buy from it is critical in these types of negotiations to demonstrate that you are doing all you can and not be like someone throwing a wrecking ball at a brick wall. It’s not going to get you far. Threatening to go to the ACCC/apple is a last resort as you can see this got their backs up. You may find that you are now banned from buying anything from them so you lose out on getting good deals in the future from them.

    This is a lesson for next time you have an issue.

    State your case calmly and cooly. Provide them with your preferred resolution option and other options. See if they are willing to do the option you prefer. Make sure this part of your request is explicit. If they are willing to do what you want then great you both win. If they don’t agree to your request then enquire as to why and then proceed to re negotiate. You need to get them to understand how you feel in your shoes, however at the same time you also need to understand what they are going through. The person receiving your messages may be going through hundreds of complaints each day and threatening to go to the ACCC will probably be the straw that broke the camels’s back (which it probably did at this point) and they refunded you.

    With regard to feedback you can’t change the feedback. However you can leave a follow up to feedback left and make further comments there about post purchase service/problems you faced.

    Here is an example for you. I belong to a hotel group which earns points. I didn’t receive an email about the expiry and transferred more points from my credit card into the account to keep my points alive. Unfortunately due to no activity on the account the points were then wiped because the rules changed. When I contacted and spoke to the hotel they said new rules were in and they cannot reinstate it. I eventually I managed to push it up the tree and a different person offered to reinstate 20% of the cancelled points at no charge.
    Hope this helps.

    • +3

      Great post amidst all the condescension in this thread. I can't believe you took the time to write this, but good on you for genuinely trying to help an internet stranger.

    • +1

      Please note that these laws may vary from state to state as we don’t have uniform consumer laws.

      ACL is a federal law. So it does not vary state to state.

      • The link I provided is for consumer affairs victoria and is specific to Victoria

      • Correction. My error. It is now federal but jointly managed between federal and state agencies

        https://www.business.gov.au/products-and-services/fair-tradi…

        • +1

          Appreciate the comment ibuy without having to be like L1ndros88 was saying most users were like. But that's anonymous forums.

          I definitely followed your advice, up until the point Apple were calling me and explaining the store was telling Apple that a replacement is possible, then the store would change their wording to me. Turns out the device wasn't brand new and the store had no power to actually replace it upstream as it wasn't day dot brand new. It was over their 14 day return with their supplier. They actually sold me a device that had been activated a month prior. But sold the device as brand new.

          Always spoke to the manager at the store and never angrily or abusive. Although in my final eBay message was when i said i'll take it to the ACCC once the store said i must not hold them responsible for what they sold me. I don't know how anyone can think it acceptable a seller saying 'you can't hold us responsible' for an item they sell.

  • +30

    I see from all the messages in this thread why they just gave you a refund. I definitely can't blame them for not wanting to deal with you any further! Geez!

    • +10

      Yeah the seller dodged a massive bullet here. This sort of customer is an absolute ass to deal with and makes companies less open to working with the customer to avoid bad situations like this.

      Maybe you are a troll, but otherwise OP is ridiculously entitled and unreasonable.

    • -5

      Care to explain what you believe you've learned in this thread about me?

  • +8

    The seller actually dogde the bullet. You threaten them with ACCC, it is in every business's best interest to avoid a difficult customer like you.

    • -2

      The ACCC was used because the seller was refusing to repair/replace the unit which is simple with Apple and again Apple was willing to help make it happen, and the seller only didn't want to replace the unit because they lied about the listing and didn't sell me a 'brand new' device. The unit was months old. That's why they didn't want the ACCC anywhere near it.

    • Turns out seller sold me a replaced/refurbished or repaired device as Apple stated today.

      I posted links above.

      Thanks for kissing the ass of the seller though even though they purposefully tried to screw me over with some device some other client they had wouldn't accept.

  • +1

    seller means you are not worth the thousands of dollars..
    your money is no good here.

  • +2

    @checkingthisout have you heard of: penny wise pound foolish?

    Well you let greed and hubris take the better of you, you could have just ignored scratch and a month less warranty considering that you saved money using coupon, but no, you decided to bully the seller:

    "Then i said "No, i'll take this up with the ACCC/Apple instead" then an hour later i get a refund without asking."

    They acted within their rights to provide you with the full refund and not have to deal with such PITA anymore. They have nothing to do with the coupon discount. Given that eBay transaction was effectively cancelled, maybe you can contact eBay and threaten them with ACCC to refund you the coupon amount or give you another coupon of equivalent value. Please let us know how that goes.

    Now, go to your room and write a hundred times:
    "I will never again be penny wise pound foolish bullying smartarse!"

    • You're a complete pushover if you think it's acceptable to be given a used, damaged product despite paying for new.

      It's got nothing to do with being greedy. If the OP wanted a used and damaged computer I'm sure they can buy one elsewhere at a similar price.

      Not that the OP has a case here whatsoever.

      • It depends on the circumstances.

        If it was a genuine mistake by the seller, then they did what they should have done. Correct their mistake by repairing, replacing or refunding.

        Recently, I purchased a ChromeCast Ultra from GoodGuys eBay, for ~$79 instead of $99. When arrived, it had already been registered to another user. I contacted the seller, and wanted a replacement to keep the discounts I had used. GoodGuys straight out refunded after I sent the item back. Now, I could have and should have taken it directly to a store and the outcome may have changed.

        This is the issue with Change of mind policies. It requires the seller to be diligent on what has been returned, and in many cases it has been used but returned in almost perfect packaging.

        I understand why the OP is frustrated, though my experience was likely <10% of the value and a repeatable discount.

        ACL is clear in the requirements (Seller has choice of repair, replacement or refund). How the seller goes about doing that is not a requirement. OP should be glad it wasn't a hard drive failure after a few months, I can't imagine their response!

        Maybe @p1 ama can also chime in, being the resident expert.

        • Store has a 2.7 stars out of 5 starts on google ratings. I don't think they make mistakes. They just don't care. I saw these reviews only after i had an issue.

    • What on earth? "Accept it mate" is what you're saying. Yet i know if the same happened to you, you wouldn't accept a brand new computer/car/house/vacuum/whathaveyou coming with any marks and you wouldn't accept being lied to about a brand new device being, not brand new.

      The acceptable thing and legal thing would be

      Brand new condition in box
      Activated 11 months warranty left

      Seller didn't do that for a reason.

      ACL SAYS
      "is unacceptable in appearance or finish –
      my toaster is scratched"

  • Go shop somewhere else now?

    Smart move is to also call them scum & dogs on social media

    • People already doing that on google reviews where they're 2.7 stars out of 5.

      • +1

        In OPs def, computers parts are the only things Ive ever bought where they were used and passed off as new.
        Bought a $400 monitor, took it home and opened it up, find out it was used AND damaged.

        Took it back and got the 'you cant be serious look', gave them the 'yes retard thanks for wasting my time', my business goes elsewhere.

        • -1

          I don't think many people are in my defence because they think a refund sorts the issue. But i spent 2 weeks, hours on the phone, shipping the item back, buying screen protectors and cases, had to return them (i pay return shipping) and then after all that, missed out on the 15% off discount + other eBay plus perks which made the unit a deal. It wasn't a deal without them. I'm apparently just an annoyance though. And asking for the unit back so that i could deal with the ACCC/Apple could replace it is a high crime.

          If i got the eBay discounts back i don't think it would be that bad. $3500 macbook 15% is $525. Just for that part.

          • @checkingthisout: $3500? In the screen shot provided it's a $2799 laptop, and you got $200 off with a coupon?

            • @pwnd: Yeah the RRP is $3500. I got it for $2599 because $200 off from $2800, some stores have them around $3000 or so after a coupon. So $200 more than my seller, and $400 more than I paid, ok $400, it's not HEAPS, I just don't have the money in my account as I was told I was getting the refund and it's ultra annoying to have to dick around with this all again.

      • +1

        Why did you purchase from a 2.7 star in the first place haha

        • I didn't know until I had a problem -_- whoops.

          • @checkingthisout: So it seems calling them scum & dogs on social media and giving bad rating is not such a smart move after all since people don't realize until it's too late, as it did for you. this is just a lack of due diligence on your end and now you pay the price (either with time or money)

            • @happirt: Any links or mentions of the store are removed. I haven't shown their eBay username. I haven't shown their name in the receipts. Where is it easy to find that out? Some people are finding my username out, some people want to dig in and find their details. I don't care. I actually don't care if people don't know the store name. It's not easy or normal to want to sleuth around finding this out. So for the purposes of this thread, most people will never know the seller. Does the world need to know the sellers name, no!

              One user here posted my eBay username publicly. People out on the attack, they're mad, so mad! How dare he not accept this refund like a chump.

  • +4

    This thread was comedy gold.

    A+ would laugh again

  • Just about one in 10 items on ebay has false specs in their description. When I ask the seller they used to request a video showing the issue. Nowadays I do get instant refunds without questions if the seller tries to cheat. Free items still a waste of time!

    • Yes i have found eBay is hard to search for accurate items. I tried to buy an iPhone the other day, 'brand new' with apple warranty and every Chinese seller puts "BRAND NEW SEALED" in the title. Major pain.

  • +7

    The seller obviously saw you as a vexatious buyer and couldn’t be bothered dealing with you. Be happy you got refunded and move on.

  • +10

    Rare to see someone complaining when they get all their money back.

  • I men seriously. The OPs responses. This has to be a troll post or OP is a tad entitled. Member since 30 August.

  • +1

    So you want full refund plus a new top of the range macbook? Would that satisfy your grudge?

    • No just a repair/replacement would suffice so i don't lose hundreds of dollars because i picked the wrong seller who sold me a 'brand new' device and instead delivered a device that was months old and apparently they couldn't sell in store.

  • I'm still waiting for OP to link consumer law stating he's correct likes hes posted several times.

  • +4

    This is the first time ive ever seen someone complaining about receiving a refund. Go buy another macbook somewhere else and stop living in a drama show.

  • TL; can't be bothered to read. Same citation needed, they need to confirm with me. Mate, if your partner decide to break up with you they need to confirm with you too? Lmao. Then you will keep going to all your mutual friends saying citation needed.

  • +1

    My 1st action now when reading a likely "controversial" thread title on the forums is to look at the poster's history.

    Just joined + 1st post = move on.

    • -1

      I need 5 years of trolling the forums to be of merit? I've had a look through, there are many commenters in here with comments complaining about all sorts of things. Seems a good whinge on here isn't just for the 'newbs'.

      • Don't take it personally, OP.

        You are just one of many.

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