eBay Seller Sold Damaged Replacement Device as 'Brand New' Tried to Force Me to Accept It

Lcheckingthisout on 30/08/2019 - 20:30
Last edited 02/09/2019 - 09:37 by 1 other user

Update:

Apple rang me and said they’ve been investigating the device.
Apple devices can only be activated by opening the device.
Device was delivered to me on 22nd August
Device was first activated/opened 17 July (5 weeks before me)
Apple believes it’s possible the device was refurbished/repaired/replaced.
Then sold to me as 'Brand New' in hopes the consumer wouldn't notice.
Replaced/Refurbished/Repaired devices do not hold the same value as 'brand new' devices
So for the store, withholding that was in their best interest

And

Apple devices that arrive “Damaged on Arrival” are replaced
It’s easy for any supplier to do so with Apple
You cannot replace a refurbished device
You absolutely cannot replace a third party repaired device

No wonder the seller bailed when I said I wanted the device back to investigate with Apple/ACCC.

Was the damage on the top casing done during any replacement/repair?

I don't know yet.

PROOF: https://imgur.com/a/Ectbjs1

TLDR: Seller lied about selling a brand new macbook, it was damaged and replaced, tried to force me to accept it, once i said i wanted the ACCC involved, seller tried to get out of the sales transaction by refunding me, but no money has arrived and that doesn't mean they didn't commit a crime.

I purchased a 'brand new' MacBook 15"

Seller said it was in original condition, sealed, never activated and brand new as if from an Apple store.

Arrived and was damaged with a scratch

Rang Apple and Apple notified me the device was activated 5 weeks before my purchase

Get a call from Apple and Apple states the only way to activate a device is to open it and setup

Apples confirms refurbs and replacements keep their old warranty, stating it's likely it could be replacement or refurbished device

Seller gets item on Tuesday, by the Friday, still Apple and myself calling each day to ask for a replacement, each day seller says "we can do a replacement"

By Friday afternoon, seller still hasn't begun the replacement process, ignores me for a replacement

Friday afternoon i ask for the item back and to take it up with consumer affairs and Apple as i am unhappy i was sold a misleading product

Seller try's to initiate a refund and cuts of contact

Still don't have money in my PayPal or bank account and the computer is still at the seller.

Computing

closed Comments

                              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 01/09/2019 - 19:32

                                @checkingthisout:

                                If only i had a detective..

                                I was right wasn't I?

                                will do the refund OUTSIDE of eBay

                                You haven't raised an eBay case. I know this because of the second pic on your link. The seller doesn't have an option to refund via eBay. They do have the option via the PayPal transaction.

                                WITHOUT asking me.

                                You returned the item. Correct? Why wouldn't they.

                                If it was in eBay i would have seen it straight away come up as a return.

                                eBay will notify straight away. PayPal does not.

                                There's a difference.

                                • checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 19:34
                                  +1

                                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Bloody hell. What a run around. Some seller lies to me, sends me something damaged that they had repaired/replaced and you're coming at me like i am the person who scammed someone cause i dare mention using consumer law. I can't be bothered with you man.

                                  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 01/09/2019 - 19:37

                                    @checkingthisout: You said you posted "proof". I corrected you.

                                    You made some arguments. I clarified your arguments.

                                    This is an internet forum, right?

                                    Sellers make mistakes. You do not know whether there was intent or malice. Your actions and responses are not what one would consider normal.

                                  • [Deactivated] on 02/09/2019 - 01:19

                                    @checkingthisout: How are you getting scam? Maybe your time but youre getting your money back.

    • Jugganautx on 01/09/2019 - 15:43
      +2

      OP wasted more time on this forum whining

      • checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 15:46
        -3

        Na, i found out some useful links for the consumer affairs legislation. Some people were very helpful. So, actually for me, it was well worth it. What i did waste time on was drones that had no idea, and looking through their comments, do victim blaming on anyone.

  • profar on 01/09/2019 - 16:24
    +1

    I really think your wasting your talents .

    With your charisma , personality and charm I think you should be at least an Ozbargain Ambassador .

    profar on 01/09/2019 - 16:24 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
  • andyken on 01/09/2019 - 16:39
    +1

    I can feel your pain OP, im stand with you as again listing brand new item but in fact is refurbished, used or second hand was a dodgy move. The seller should be punish severely otherwise they will keep doing what they do and trick next customers.

    Unfortunately I don't think ACCC won't do much as the seller already give you a full refund. I think lodge a formal complaint to Apple as they are their authorised seller and also with ACCC, the ground is selling used item as brand new.

    • checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 16:41
      -1

      Thanks mate, everyone at Apple has been supportive and informative. Will keep you posted :D

  • Bobby Hill on 01/09/2019 - 17:18
    +3

    A very simple case:

    People are commenting on the "mark" and debating whether this is major or minor. This is irrelevant. The seller sold you a product which they claimed as being "brand new" and "sealed". The facts indicate it wasn't as described. This is clear misrepresentation.

    Given you purchased the laptop through eBay, you should have gone through their internal protocols and you could have had initiated a return and received an instant refund. If you are eBay plus member you can submit a return even without seeking the seller's approval.

    You have really made it hard on yourself going through this complicated route of contacting Apple and the seller, and then more so by sending the laptop to the seller without any mandate. As it is in their possession, a full refund is an acceptable solution.

    As you have confirmed that they have not initiated a refund, you can open a case and request a refund via PayPal or eBay. It is very common for businesses to claim that processing refunds take "x" days. But this processing time miraculously becomes quite instant when they are forced to comply. Also note, if you take this route and the seller claims that they cannot process a refund with an open case and ask that you close it, its a scam. Once a case is closed, you cannot reopen it, and it will be up to the seller to honour the refund.

    • checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 18:13
      -1

      "Alternatively, customers can also claim a remedy directly from the manufacturer or importer if the goods are of an unacceptable quality, don’t match the advertised description or don’t meet any other of the consumer guarantees."

      I must be missing the point where it's my choice to get the device back and take it to Apple instead.

      This "shop has it now, it's their property", that's like saying you took a car in for repair and whilst you were waiting, the car yard refunded the cost of the car and drove it away and sold it off. You never gave them the ok to do it, you were there for a repair.

      A major failure with goods is when:

      the consumer would not have bought it if they knew about the problem
      the goods are very different from what was in the description or sample model

      It's pretty clearly a Major failure and the next step is clear

      If there is a major failure with goods, consumers can choose to:

      get a refund
      replace for the same product
      get a replacement of similar value
      keep the goods and be compensated for any drop in value.

      It's always been the choice of the consumer at this level of failure.

      • hypie on 01/09/2019 - 19:52

        1) For the X time… It is NOT a major fault. It will never be a major fault. No matter how many coins you throw in the wishing well.

        2) When you purchase the item from a retailer. You have a contract with the retailer, not the manufacturer. The retailer has refunded the item. This is an appropriate remedy. I don't think you will have much luck getting anymore compensation, but by all means try it and let us know how you go.

        • checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 19:54

          What's not a Minor fault?

          The description and presentation of the goods being completely false?
          The warranty being completely false?
          The device being refurbished?

          Or

          A scratch?

          Please clarify, you're so sure, so out of those which one is the minor one or are all minor?

          • hypie on 01/09/2019 - 19:58

            @checkingthisout:

            A scratch?

            Is not a major fault. It is a minor fault

            The description and presentation of the goods being completely false?
            The warranty being completely false?
            The device being refurbished?

            Is not a fault. It is however breaching consumer guarantees.

            safe, lasting, with no faults
            look acceptable
            do all the things someone would normally expect them to do.
            Acceptable quality takes into account what would normally be expected for the type of product and cost.

            Products must:

            match descriptions made by the salesperson, on packaging and labels, and in promotions or advertising
            match any demonstration model or sample you asked for
            be fit for the purpose the business told you it would be fit for and for any purpose that you made known to the business before purchasing
            come with full title and ownership
            not carry any hidden debts or extra charges
            come with undisturbed possession, so no one has a right to take the goods away or prevent you from using them
            meet any extra promises made about performance, condition and quality, such as life time guarantees and money back offers
            have spare parts and repair facilities available for a reasonable time after purchase unless you were told otherwise.

            • checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 19:59

              @hypie: Right, so the scratch is minor and you'd purchase a device with scratches, dents, dings or marks brand new and accept it. We should redraft the laws to make sure we can all buy scratched, dented, dinged up cars. "its just minor!"

              At least i know your level of minor is that. But the whitegoods outline by the ACCC says scratches marks and dents are not acceptable for brand new devices. They are ok for seconds, second hand or sell outs where the consumer is made aware of it. That's why we have run out stores specifically for this. Even then the consumer still has rights.

              ACL has three things. Fault, Minor, Major.

              If it's breaching consumer law, then which provision of the consumer protection is it under and what rights are in place for decision making?

              Because if you read my answer in here. That falls under federal law and i've cited that in here, you're welcome to go read it.

              • XanderYuan on 01/09/2019 - 23:08
                +1

                @checkingthisout: You are still on this case, FYI, major failure is defined in the act in section 2 of the ACL definition section which will lead you to s 260(goods) and s 268(services)
                260 When a failure to comply with a guarantee is a major failure
                A failure to comply with a guarantee referred to in section 259(1)(b) that applies to a supply of goods is a major failure if:
                (a) the goods would not have been acquired by a reasonable consumer fully acquainted with the nature and extent of the failure; or
                (b) the goods depart in one or more significant respects:
                (i) if they were supplied by description—from that description; or
                (ii) if they were supplied by reference to a sample or demonstration model—from that sample or demonstration model; or
                (c) the goods are substantially unfit for a purpose for which goods of the same kind are commonly supplied and they cannot, easily and within a reasonable time, be remedied to make them fit for such a purpose; or
                (d) the goods are unfit for a disclosed purpose that was made known to:
                (i) the supplier of the goods; or
                (ii) a person by whom any prior negotiations or arrangements in relation to the acquisition of the goods were conducted or made;
                and they cannot, easily and within a reasonable time, be remedied to make them fit for such a purpose; or
                (e) the goods are not of acceptable quality because they are unsafe.

              • hypie on 02/09/2019 - 06:32

                @checkingthisout:

                But the whitegoods outline by the ACCC says scratches marks and dents are not acceptable for brand new devices

                Citation?

                ACL has three things. Fault, Minor, Major.

                This is a VERY simplistic view (and more incorrect than correct).

                • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 08:22

                  @hypie: Product arrives in unacceptable quality. The description and what I was told was significantly different to what I was sold. It arrived damaged. That's what we know ok.

                  Please goto page 7, then see the simple chart. If any of the below dot points apply to my order, then it's major. If you assume that any of the dot points are not applied below, then yes its minor. So make judgement.

                  Major is very simply.
                  • Reasonable consumer would not have purchased
                  • Significantly different from description, sample or demonstration model,
                  and can’t be fixed easily or within a reasonable time
                  • Substantially unfit for common purpose or specified purpose, and can’t be fixed easily or within a reasonable time

                  Read it in a literal sense. Don't just focus on the scratch. If the scratch is so Minor, then repair can be 'fixed easily in a reasonable time'.

                  Acceptable quality
                  The test for acceptable quality is whether a reasonable consumer, fully aware of a product’s condition (including any hidden defects) would find it:

                  fit for all the purposes for which products of that kind are commonly supplied – for example, a toaster must be able to toast bread
                  acceptable in appearance and finish – for example, a new toaster should be free from scratches

                  https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Electrical%20%26%20whit…

                  Page 3

                  The guarantee of acceptable quality does not apply if:

                  you alert the consumer to the defect before the consumer agrees to the purchase

                  Applicable acceptable quality conditions:

                  representations made about the product – for example, in any advertising, on the manufacturer’s or retailer’s website or in the instruction booklet
                  anything you told the consumer about the product before purchase, and
                  any other relevant facts, such as the way the consumer has used the product.

                  Then:

                  Major failures
                  A major failure with a product is when:

                  the product is significantly different from the description, sample or demonstration model shown to the consumer. For example, a consumer orders a red food mixer from a catalogue, but the mixer delivered is green

                  https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Electrical%20%26%20whit…

                  Page 4

                  Then:

                  Products damaged on arrival
                  If a consumer finds their new electrical or whitegoods product damaged on arrival, it may not meet the consumer guarantee of acceptable quality.
                  ‘Acceptable quality’ means a reasonable consumer, fully aware of the products’ condition (including any defects), would find them:

                  acceptable in appearance and finish
                  free from defects

                  Page 13

                  This is the loop. Go down and loop again. Come to the same conclusions. A false title, false description, damaged on arrival, scratched. Now do the chart on page 7.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 01/09/2019 - 17:28
    +10

    OP is everything ok at home?

    Your responses are odd.

    Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 01/09/2019 - 17:28 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
  • profar on 01/09/2019 - 20:06
    +1

    Sorry OP about what I thought suited you in this thread .

    I reckon you can give AO a run for there $$$$$$$$$ :

    Annoying Orange Net Worth – $17 Million
    The Annoying Orange is a YouTube channel and series created by former Minnesota film student and MTV production assistant Dane Boedigheimer back in 2009. He has an estimated net worth of $17 million.May 15, 2019

  • mooney on 01/09/2019 - 20:19
    +9

    Admins for the love of God please close this thread.

  • netsurfer on 01/09/2019 - 20:25
    +1

    OP, laws are on your side, but a couple of questions:

    • How was the item returned? Posted back? If so, who paid for the return postage? Seller or you? It was using a trackable service I presume?
    • Has an eBay case been raised? If yes, has it been escalated to a claim?

    I am guessing you want the item back because you think Apple will still do the warranty. However, the question is what did Apple promise you? A brand new replacement or a refurbished unit? If it is going to be a refurbished unit, then why bother?

    Honestly, it is easier to just get the refund. It will be silly for seller to send you the item again given the situation (the seller will have to pay for another postage). I understand the $200 eBay voucher will be gone, see if eBay CSR can do something about it.

    • checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 20:33

      I want to answer this quickly, it's getting droning.

      Apple said a replacement should be made by the reseller at the very least, or that Apple would work with the seller to cover costs of their repair, service or in general.

      Apple call me every day to check in and it's only been escalated recently.

      I can approach the manufacturer under the ACL.

      If the seller refuses i can ask Apple, which are much easier to replace for me. Or in general to work with.

      I was never offered a refurb, although what i purchased seems to be a refurb.

      I will need to raise it with eBay too? I spoke to them on chat, they didn't seem to care.

      I posted it back Express the very next business day. It was tracked and delivered. Seller got it on Tuesday 10:30am then didn't bother to contact their supplier to start a replacement at all. Even with Apple calling and telling them they had to. After 3 days, the seller said multiple times to Apple that there weren't refusing a replacement. But on the phone to me they didn't either, but in the end, they said "it's too hard, refund, or just accept it as it is"

      The seller never called me once, blamed the damage on me with a comment "It's not possible to have damage on a sealed device", yes it's also not possible to activate the device without opening the box….

      • netsurfer on 01/09/2019 - 21:18
        +1

        It's generally not a good idea to return the item without raising a case first. What you didn't know is this:

        • When you raise a case, and if you paid using PayPal, it freezes that amount of money on the seller's account so the seller cannot touch that amount until the case is resolved.
        • Returning the item has to be done using a trackable service, preferably with the delivery company (i.e. AusPost) either stamped on the sender to keep slip containing the destination address address (registered post) or have that address recorded on their system. Anyway, it's okay in your case, you have e-mails/message exchanges which show seller has received the item.
        • Seller can play hard ball and drag the case. Generally, eBay wants you to work out with seller so you start by raising a case, but it takes some time before you can escalate to a claim.

        You should raise the case a.s.a.p. If eBay offered you to escalate it to a claim right away, do that. If the seller still plays hard ball, contact your credit card company to step in. You are making your situation too complicated, it is hard for eBay CSR to really comment or assist (and you have not raised a case so they assume you are asking for general advice).

        True, you have rights under ACL, but you still need to give the other party a chance to resolve it. Don't assume it will end up in your "best case" scenario. Seller, if provided a full refund, would conclude this whole transaction / mess, and there is not much you can do about it. I would get the refund quickly and see if eBay can offer you another voucher.

        Don't go for the complicated approach even if you think ACL is on your side. Unless Apple confirmed they will give you a new one, DO NOT assume you will get a new one. You could end up getting a refurbished one and that one may not come with an original cardboard box. I wasn't pleased with the refurbished unit Apple gave me under warranty repair.

        • checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 21:57

          Ok, thanks for the advice, will talk to eBay tomorrow.

          • netsurfer on 01/09/2019 - 23:19
            +1

            @checkingthisout: I understand you want a new 15 inch MBP at a price that's $900 below RRP and that was what you suppose to get. However, talking to eBay CSR is unlikely to change that, especially if the seller has a power seller account.

            The seller is dodgy, but given the situation, refund is what they will choose.

            Best to let it go, if you insist on pursuit this further, check with ACCC.

            • checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 23:31

              @netsurfer: Only asking for the computer back to take it up with Apple directly, as I can take it up with the manufacturer. And only doing that because I needed it yesterday for work. I don't have the time/money to bargain hunt again. I could use it whilst talking to Apple about a replacement. The seller taking the device off me because they're worried any investigation might dig something up. Is super dodge.

              • netsurfer on 02/09/2019 - 00:05
                +1

                @checkingthisout: Mate, the seller technically did not take the item off you. You sent it back. Perhaps after talking to Apple and reconsidered your options, you changed your mind and want the item back. However, seller will only send it to you if you agreed not to hold them responsible (i.e. you must go through Apple warranty service) to which you refused. Honestly, most sellers in this situation would refund (because if this dragged on, the end result from eBay would be a forced refund anyway).

                If the MBP is a must right now, just get one. Since it is for work, it is tax deductible and you can write off a certain amount over the years. We are talking about MBP here, even with $900 off, you are still paying Apple tax anyway.

  • randomusername2017 on 01/09/2019 - 20:29
    +1

    127/298
    Is there a badge for that?

  • cashie on 01/09/2019 - 20:53
    -1

    You are getting a refund, move on.
    Yes you lost your $200 you saved withthe eBay coupon, wait for another sale.

    • checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 22:35

      That's not the point.
      Sold my old device to purchase this device.
      Use it for work.
      Specifically needed something with grunt.
      Arrives damaged and check on Saturday. Contact Apple Sunday to understand how that's possible.
      Get told by the seller a replacement is possible on Monday, told max 1-2 weeks based on their advice. "But it's hard" I am told by the seller "It's easy" I am told by Apple.

      "Its DOA, damaged on arrival" Apple says. "It's a replacement if you choose"
      But device is FrakenMac not Brand New Mac so DOA means SFA
      Send device Monday.
      Send express to get ball rolling. Arrives next day.
      Offer seller more money to send it back express once replaced/repaired "I'll pay to get this shipped next day, I need it for work"
      Wait 3-4 days later, seller still hasn't even rung to start the replacement.
      Apple starts asking seller if he is refusing. "seller says not refusing"
      Ok get started on the replacement.
      Friday. Seller wants a refund. "too hard to get replaced"
      Ask for device back
      Seller says I must accept 'as is'
      Blew the discounts on any item so if I still had it I could spend a tad more and get another one. Upto $1000 off.
      Don't even have the money back from the seller to buy the next one at full price. They aren't cheap.
      Can't afford without a decent discount, which were plentiful 1-2 weeks ago.
      Now computer-less for work.
      Have to trawl eBay for their coupons and check eligible seller
      Possible timeline for replacement, should be quick.
      Even a scratch from apples standards is DOA return.
      So Apples fault, simple, file a replacement with your supplier.
      Supplier takes it up with Apple. Simple, simple, simple.
      Trawling eBay and trying to afford it. Who knows how long?
      Would I have returned the device if I knew the seller would confiscate it? No.
      Would I have kept the device and taken it up with Apple. Yes.
      Am I legally allowed to take the matter up with Apple directly. Yes.
      Bit more complicated than 'move on'

      • Randolph Duke on 02/09/2019 - 00:47
        +4

        You sold your old device before getting the new one, a device you need for work? How brave are you?

        Don’t think this speaks to anything other than your complete lack of risk assessment.

        • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 07:12
          -1

          What are you talking about. That's not an abnormal at all. People sell houses before buying houses. Sell cars before buying cars. The thing that you expect is that the seller is honest in their description. Mine wasn't. You don't assume that happens when they write one thing, say one thing and do another.

          I have an old MacBook that I can do work on, but I cannot 'work' on it. It's incredibly inefficient it's 10 years old, it has a single core, I was already maxing 4 cores, so I had a backup. But I did not expect to get lied to. Unless I should always assume the seller is lying then?

          • Randolph Duke on 02/09/2019 - 08:28
            +2

            @checkingthisout: People who sell their house or car have plans in place - people don’t suddenly end up homeless or unable to get around because they’ve sold their house/car and don’t find a replacement in time. A plan, like, say another device they can use.

            I’ve never changed over a computer without running both for at least a few days. You always miss some files or configuration settings.

            • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 08:34

              @Randolph Duke: I have time machine backups on this old device, which transfer to the new device in 30-60 minutes. 1:1 carbon copy. Nothing changes apart from hardware and you assume brand new hardware is without fault 99% of the time. You don't expect to get a dud 99% of the time.

  • Laziofogna on 01/09/2019 - 21:15
    +1

    I loved the revisions, thank you.

  • Simoneee on 01/09/2019 - 21:38
    +1

    Seller refunded you. Case closed.

  • Maximum64 on 01/09/2019 - 22:51

    OP, where I think your understanding of it has gone wrong is based on the warranty start date. As someone who worked 7 odd years in the game with Apple, see how it says "ESTIMATED Expiration Date"? The way Apple works things is that they have a default date they will use that starts X number of weeks after the computer leaves their warehouse. Can't remember what that time frame is, but lets call it a month. Apple will initially assume that the computer has been sold within a month of it leaving their warehouse, and put that date in the field as a stop gap measure UNTIL such time that the computer is properly registered and/or proof of purchase supplied, at which time the exact correct date will then appear in that field.

    On numerous occasions, I have personally dealt with customers who were (understandably) unaware of this, and who then also spoke to the Apple call centre and dealt with staff there who were (disappointingly) also unaware of this procedure, and would unwittingly provide incorrect info to the owners, giving the impression that a machine had been previously registered by someone else, when in fact, it was simply that it has sat unsold in the shop for 2 months and this default 1 month date had been triggered by Apple. As soon as teh device is properly registered, this default date changes to match.

    It is quite VERY probable, that the machine was in fact brand new, but somehow slipped past the final visual quality control (I have seen it happen, but can only think of two machines in all my years, one an iPod and one a MacBook Pro) and that this date you are looking at is in fact the default date that auto triggers at Apple, and that it never was actually "Activated" by someone else. The clue is that "Estimated" part of it.

    • checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 22:55

      That's specifically NOT what I was told on the phone this morning. That there was a clear activation, although I cannot know. I will know more tomorrow. But there wasn't any estimation, the guy on the phone was clear, but someone from a higher level would go into detail tomorrow. That's not to say he wasn't wrong and that I believe you're wrong, that's not what I'm saying, what you've said could have happened. But he certainly was saying that the dates don't match and the device was purchased X months ago and that he believes the device was repaired/replaced.

      • netsurfer on 01/09/2019 - 23:41

        Did you activate the device from the Macbook Pro? Before the very first customer activation, the device would show the date it leaves Apple as the default warranty date. The warranty date issue is actually a fixable issue. As the page indicated, if you believed the date is wrong, provide your receipt, Apple can adjust it for you. If the way you explained things or the questions were regarding what could have happen, then Apple support staff (on the phone) could speculate. Did you simply ask why the warranty date is prior to your purchase date or you gave the CSR your version of the story and then asked what happened?

        The scratch - I guess the seller could go: ask Apple. Honestly, with my experience, Apple brand new devices aren't always perfect. I had consecutive brand new iPads with dead pixels. I got so fed up that I refused the third brand new replacement and just asked for a full refund.

        Given that with the $200 voucher, this is literally $900 below RRP, it is more likely something is dodgy on the seller side. I understand it is very difficult to let go, but with that kind of price, it does feel a bit too good to be true (something is fishy).

        From now, let's assume that the seller is shrewd, if so, what the seller decided: refund, is the expected outcome. With general consensus feeling a refund back to you is a good closure of this, it will be hard for you to really pursuit this further even through ACCC. You can try and see what they say.

        • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 07:21

          You can only activate the devices from the devices. It's done from the date it is activated. Not the date it is purchased. I have just done that twice recently with an iPhone. Purchased a week before and activated the day I got it. The phones were iPhone 7's, originally manufactured in 2016. Sold to the supplier in 2019. Activated when I got them in 2019.

          I also had a replacement iPhone, 6 months or so ago, the warranty was the same on the replacement as the old device. They carry across. So the only way a MacBook can arrive activated is because it's been opened, activated, replaced/repaired, and then sold again.

          That's ok. Just say it's refurbished. Don't call it 'brand new' and say the warranty is 1 year and that the unit is 'original'. That's all you need to do.

          And the RRP. the stores price was $2800. There are MacBooks for 2800-$3000 brand new from some stores on eBay after discounts, but you have to find the right discounts. The RRP of that store was not the price indicative of a refurbished device. I only got it cheap due to a discount on their sale price of $2800. But $200 less than a brand new. There are brand new devices cheaper on Gumtree, if people want to go that route. That are brand new.

          The problem is now I don't trust buying an expensive device outside of Apple. I usually purchase MacBooks from Apple but I can't afford $3500. So buying from any reseller means, what if something like this happens again?

          At the time with that discount I would have been out of pocket only $100-200 more. That's not a problem. If the seller had explained the device was replacement/refurbished, I could have made a decision on whether or not $2600 was a fair price, or if $2800 from another seller brand new was better.

          I'd have chosen brand new for $2800. The seller was dishonest. There's nothing I can do about that.

          The real mistake I made was helping the seller to make the replacement process easy. I wiped the computer completely and removed all locks, that took 2 hours or so. Meaning that the device is easier to replace with their supplier. If I hadn't done that, the seller wouldn't be able to sell anything. Usually with Apple you don't have to do that, they remove the SSD and break it, then get the parts.

          I did that in good faith to save time as I needed it pronto.

          • netsurfer on 02/09/2019 - 10:13

            @checkingthisout: My most recent purchase of MBP is from OfficeWorks, they had nearly 20% off. There are other stores which are safe to buy Apple devices.

            What's wrong with just get the money back and then buy the $2800 brand new discounted one you mentioned? And, let's not make Apple being so special in services. If Apple were that good, they would have said to you, bring it to an Apple store and get a brand new replacement. They tried to pressure the retailer to do the replacement, but the retailer refused and decided to do a refund. I did receive refurbished items from Apple before (for warranty). However, with the latest iOS put on the device, that device became awfully slow. My mate had a replacement iPhone's battery expanded (requiring another replacement).

            What do you expect we OZBer to do to help you? Honestly, a lot of us feel that given seller would do a full refund, this thing has a closure already. If it is literally just a $200 difference. Get your money back and ask eBay support to offer you another voucher. If it is really for work, you can justify the spending, otherwise you are just lying to yourself (and you are basically after a shinny new toy).

            • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 11:22

              @netsurfer: The $2800 ones I can no longer find. eBay has this thing with discounts for 'select sellers'. Nothings close to $2599 now.

              If you see one for $2800. Send it over. I can't get anything under $3000-3100 from unknown sellers.

              Ok so I just spent $2599, now $2800, why not $3000, why stop there, safest option is $3500.

              You show me the $3500 MacBook 15 for $2800 at OW and yeah, that would be A OK. I've never seen any price like that at OW/JB/HN.

              • netsurfer on 02/09/2019 - 11:35

                @checkingthisout: The whole point is that $2600 deal is dodgy. How much time have you wasted on this?

                Is it really for work? If yes, it is tax deductible right? So you were willing to go to Apple store and buy Macbook Pro 13 inch at retail price, but not Macbook Pro 15 inch? Honestly, any REAL work that require a MBP 15 inch would pay enough for you to buy that MBP, otherwise you are just after a shinny new toy.

                You want the cake and eat it. You want dirt cheap price and top notch service. This is Apple we are talking about here. It doesn't add up.

                DO NOT reply to this. I did not sell you this dodgy item. Take it up with the seller, talk to whoever you want.

                • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 11:50

                  @netsurfer: You've made a few assumptions that are wrong.

                  I got the 13" 10% direct from Apple. The price being reasonable within my budget.

                  10% of $3500 is still $3150 it's not a small amount of money.

                  "Get a better job", "just accept it", "get your work to pay for it", "put it on tax"

                  Thanks for those comments, I'll make sure to get higher paying work this week via seek and whilst I'm at it, I'll work out how to put it all on tax by learning the tax code, I also won't forget to ask any employers to give me more money because a seller was dodgy in the future.

                  Thanks for the advice.

  • achew on 02/09/2019 - 01:15

    eh, don't buy Apple unless it's from Apple.

    Achew
    'scuse me

    • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 07:15

      I just got a iPhone 7 from eBay, brand new in box it said. It came sealed and the day I opened it, was the day It was activated and warranty started. This is specifically about the seller being dishonest, not Apple.

      • achew on 02/09/2019 - 08:49
        +2

        Apple are probably more dishonest than this seller when it comes to many other things that fly under your nose as a consumer.

        Consider what it's truly worth to you, if you have time.

        Achew
        'scuse me

        • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 08:53

          I can't fault Apple this time around, I purchased a 13" MacBook from them a few weeks back, the newer ones, but it just wasn't able to handle what I needed. I returned it within 14 days like new out of the box, as i had a case and screen protector on it from day dot, they were more than happy to refund. On the phone they've been super helpful.

          But yes, Apple have done some things that can be considered, immoral.

          • netsurfer on 02/09/2019 - 11:13

            @checkingthisout: That's because of AU law (the 14 days). You don't get the same deal at Apple stores in a few other countries.

            Also, Apple Australia refused to replace a lightning cable when there is a minor crack on one of the connectors. They said it is customer caused damage, whereas if the wires inside actually came out, they will replace it.

  • gimme on 02/09/2019 - 08:17
    +8

    This thread did my head in. OP needs to experience some real problems and gain some perspective in life.

  • nandystam on 02/09/2019 - 08:44
    +2

    This is the thread that never ends,
    Yes, it goes on and on my friend.

    • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 08:48
      +1

      People are replying and I reply back. If people want it to end, just stop replying and asking me questions…. You don't have to be here, you don't have to comment, you're commenting for no reason. Then complaining it doesn't end.

      • weezlebub on 02/09/2019 - 09:28

        Hey mate, just wanted to apologise for some of the others for the grief they're giving you …

        Purchasing an item on sale / special / coupon / discount doesn't mean it should be inferior to new, if a seller's not prepared to offer an equal product, don't offer the discount …

        Purchasing an item "new, sealed, unopened" is like purchasing a new car, the second it's taken from the packaging / card yard, it's second hand (or ex-demo) and has lost 10-20% of the new value …

        Personally, I would have been much more of a jerk:
        - held onto the device and used it while going through the complaints process
        - told them I need it for work
        - have them pay for shipping
        - ship the device back after receiving a suitable replacement

        Alternatively, ask them to take the ~15% "second hand" value off of the price as a refund and leave you with the laptop you recieved …

        Since they've got it, you're at their mercy

        • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 09:40

          Just spoke to Victorian consumer regulator:

          Section 54 (Acceptable quality)

          Section 33 (Misleading goods)

          Australian law act of 2010

          Again, I just have to go over the same levels of the law. I get the choice. The device wasn't of acceptable quality. And it's not ok to just force me to accept it.

          Yes I can contact them and talk about the next steps, including VCAT, which is a pain for everyone, so I'll discuss what can work for both of us, and I'll continue to talk to Apple as well.

          The manager at the store isn't helpful, some of the other staff are very nice. Some managers aren't good at service, some are great.

          I just rang the store, I simply put down my case, 10 business days is ok for a replacement, I can accept that and would hope you simply owner the original contract and can accept the item I got was not of acceptable quality and work with Apple for a replacement. Or a drop in the price of the unit for being refurbished and I'll accept that the scratch/warranty I can not hold them at fault for and we part ways. That's not unreasonable!

          Thanks!

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/09/2019 - 10:24

            @checkingthisout:

            Australian law act of 2010

            Where would we find this piece of legislation :)

            The manager at the store isn't helpful

            Hahaha I wonder why.

            we part ways

            LOL

            They issued you a refund. I think they have already parted ways with you :)

  • luffyex2010 on 02/09/2019 - 09:36
    +3

    Walks in ….🤔scans😒😬😱… ahhh millennial tandrum…ok…time to get out.

    Update: added emoji for extra feel lol
    @OP you are not entirely wrong but don't waste too much effort/energy on this and you will be happier.

    • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 10:06
      +1

      Just contacted the store and let them know I am happy to wait 10 business days or take a refund of some sort of amount to take the device back as damaged and accept it.

      Is a bit of a tantrum, I am pretty upset about it. Emojis did add value :D

      • luffyex2010 on 02/09/2019 - 10:15

        😵 …just avoid them dammit, blacklist, bad feedback and etc.
        They are still many other innocent/honest business/online shops out there.

        You know why we are always poorer and the capitalist getting richer?
        because of avid Apple fanatics

        Please never pay retail price, that is also the purpose of the birth of Ozbargain because of the consumers outcry.

        Points @ Scotty biggest outcry lol

        • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 10:31

          Haha Avid Apple fanatics. The 6 core i7 9750H, 16GB, UHD on a Lenovo x1 was $3,178.39, that's more than I paid. I think I ozbarganied pretty well. I just got ozunlucky that the device was damaged.

          • netsurfer on 02/09/2019 - 10:53

            @checkingthisout: Mate, work harder and find a better job. At my workplace, everyone gets a work issued Macbook Pro 15 inch i7/16GB. The lead in my team gets an i9 MBP with 32GB RAM.

            At work, we don't do battery replacement. You simply get a new MBP. The mobile team get to play around with latest phones as well.

      • netsurfer on 02/09/2019 - 10:48

        Well, good luck with that.

        Honestly, if the store has actually refunded you, then you are barking at the wrong tree. That would end this whole mess from their side. From what you wrote, I don't think they refunded you yet? If so, they must be super slack, have some really lousy process (where only certain staff can do refund) or just want to toy with you.

        You might think it is a very big deal, but if they have sold a lot of items before, they've dealt with this type of issues before. You are just calling every one and gathering what your potential rights are. But did you ask them what will happen if the seller refunded the full amount to you? Can they still help you?

        Deep down, you still want this MPB far too much, so much so that you don't even want to raise an eBay case (which would speed up the refund, or at least freeze that amount so the seller will take it more seriously). Just think of it as missing out on one good OZB bargain and move on. It's hard for people to really feel for you when it is an Apple Macbook Pro. Your most recent demand shows that you don't need one right away (as you are willing to wait 10 business days).

        I agree with luffyex2010. Just stop dealing with the seller anymore. Get your money back, blacklist the seller. Tell us who this bloody seller is so we can blacklist the seller.

        • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 11:30

          With the 10 days, I have to be acceptable and I have. It's now 7 days later from the day I started this, that means I'd be receiving a replacement sometime Wednesday-Thursday. I haven't been unreasonable with that.

          I do not have a refund and I do not have any confirmation.

          Seller said they spoke to eBay and eBay said to refund the item (the seller says), but nothing shows in eBay, eBay has no idea when I asked.

          Seller also said, "well we purchased this device some months ago", the warranty is from the date we purchased it. Ok, so confirmed not to be brand new and no better than buying on Gumtree "got it some time ago mate".

          Lastly. Again Apple confirms again today, it's just not done like that for activation. It wouldn't be activated if it was brand new. If I had gone to HN they might have had the device for 6 months in stock, but the device warranty starts the day that user opens/activates. That's why iPhones have internet connections on activation.

          • netsurfer on 02/09/2019 - 11:47

            @checkingthisout: Why can't you accept you are dealing with a dodgy seller and this deal is dodgy?

            Have you raised a case yet? If you don't and you don't escalate this to a claim, eBay cannot really do a refund for you. If you do that, eBay Support can just approve / force the refund.

            You need to be realistic. Right now, you don't have the scratched MBP nor the money and you are demanding things. Sure, you don't have to pay the credit card bill yet so you can afford to wait a bit, but the way you are handling this is showing that money is actually not the issue, it is the huge urge to want an Apple MBP bargain is making you do irrational things. You simply paid for express postage for a MBP right away (that's not cheap) and you don't seem to demand the seller to refund that.

            All these e-mails / messages are useless, there is no incentive for seller to do anything. No official case raised. And all these ACCC threats are useless. You don't have experience dealing with purchases gone pear shaped. Honestly, with long term sellers, they know how to deal with these things more than you. They simply don't care about this transaction and just take their time to slowly deal with this. They know full well a refund will close this thing immediately and you will never buy from them again anyway.

            • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 11:59

              @netsurfer: What do you mean 'money isn't an issue'

              If money wasn't the issue I'd buy Apple direct 10% off. For you $500-1000 might not be much. Good for you. Your work gives you all the fancy toys, that doesn't help me.

              You're just making assumption after assumption.

              I do not have the money back from the seller. I don't even see the refund process been opened. No summary, no activity.

              There is no return on eBay.

              I will contact eBay again, and PayPal again.

              I will try other stores, other coupons what have you.

              • netsurfer on 02/09/2019 - 12:49

                @checkingthisout: You are buying a $2600+ laptop. If your budget is really tight, get the money back and forget the damn thing.

                Have you raised a case yet? If not, WHY NOT? We know the seller is dodgy and the seller's after sales service s*cks. You expect them to promptly refund you?

                Deep down, you don't want to get a refund because you know it will most likely end this. You just don't want to let go of this potential bargain despite it is looking really dodgy. Honestly, if you cannot actually afford the Apple MBP at RRP and rely on bargains, it isn't really the right purchase. We know that due to the butterfly keyboard issue, intel 10nm woe, the expected next year's model is likely to have some significant change. Therefore, anyone buying MBP now must really need it desperately, or company purchases, or simply aren't too concerned about heavy depreciation afterwards.

                If your budget is exactly $2600, then forget about MBP 15 inch. Honestly, only you give a huge damn about this thing. No one else really cares.

                Also, don't make it sound like you are 100% right. Why would a buyer send back an item BEFORE an agreement is reached by both parties? The whole point of using eBay and PayPal is to have a 3rd party to judge / assist when things gone wrong. You want everything in black and white in eBay and PayPal systems. Most OBers won't help you on this, especially given that it is a Macbook Pro that's heavily discounted.

              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/09/2019 - 12:58
                +2

                @checkingthisout:

                I do not have the money back from the seller. I don't even see the refund process been opened. No summary, no activity.
                There is no return on eBay.

                LOL this is your job to do. Not the sellers!

                • netsurfer on 02/09/2019 - 13:09
                  +2

                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Exactly… OP:

                  • Didn't raise an eBay case before sending back the item.
                  • Didn't reach an agreement with the seller before sending back the item.
                  • Sent the item back using express service (without asking for any return postage or postage compensation).
                  • Still want to drag this on (now demand a new replacement or have the item back at a discounted price).
                  • Still dreaming about his 10 business days deadline he gave to the seller based on his preferred resolution which the seller has not agreed.

                  Keep telling OP to raise the damn case and get the refund and blacklist the seller. But, no… he must exercise his full rights.

                  Awesome.. all that drama for a Macbook Pro (and money is a BIG deal to OP).

                  • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 13:20

                    @netsurfer: They told me they had done a refund, first refund for shipping instant, the main refund they told me they did, nothing. I spoke to both. Cases already open. The seller DID NOT process the refund via eBay. eBay sends me to PayPal.

                    I did make mistakes about returning items and such. I am not a professional eBay user and I expected most businesses would be helpful.

                    You are ABSOLUTELY correct though. I don't know enough about how to return an item so that I am protected properly with eBay/PayPal.

                    I will not make that mistake again.

                    • netsurfer on 02/09/2019 - 13:52

                      @checkingthisout: I am guessing this is "case" only, not yet a claim. So, right now, officially, eBay and PayPal cannot do much at their end (because their process allows seller some time to respond when you raise a case). The seller can refund in full and the case will go away. Generally, good sellers do that, but dodgy ones will either drag on and wait till it becomes a claim.

                      If it is still just a case only, no matter how hard you push eBay and PayPal, they cannot do anything yet. The system is dumb so that's why it is important to raise the case first before you do the return. You have to go through the official negotiation phase. It doesn't matter what you did behind the scene out of your goodwill.

                      Dodgy seller so just wait till you can escalate it to a claim. Once offered, do it a.s.a.p. Honestly, it is best that you plan for worst case scenario and just get the refund. This seller cannot be trusted.

                      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/09/2019 - 14:58

                        @netsurfer:

                        The seller DID NOT process the refund via eBay. eBay sends me to PayPal.

                        AGAIN, they cannot, because you never raised an eBay case!

                      • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 15:36
                        -1

                        @netsurfer: Ok, too be honest, from learning that this is a lot more complex than just dodgy seller. Macs scratch, warranty out, seller not cooperative, hostile and lies. Says one thing does another. PayPal refunds sus. I don't think I can be bothered having to do weeks of these kinds of people and cut the losses and wonder if life is even worth dealing with some of them.

                        I'll still be lodging my complaints with the relevant regulators.

                        Just got two items on eBay just now, both sellers responsive and helpful. Some sellers are gems, some. Well. Like the one I got.

                        Thanks for the advice.

                    • whooah1979 on 02/09/2019 - 15:10

                      @checkingthisout:

                      eBay sends me to PayPal.

                      Ebay does this when an INR/SNAD is opened in PayPal.

  • Normalise on 02/09/2019 - 11:14
    +3

    First time buying online?

  • [Deactivated] on 02/09/2019 - 15:36
    +3

    Holy mother flipping crap dude…

    MOVE ON

    You’re literally arguing with everyone in here.

    As a seller I would avoid someone like you like the plague. You’re a (profanity) nightmare. You’re not entitled to anything more then a refund. Shit happens. MOVE ON.

  • [Deactivated] on 02/09/2019 - 15:43
    +3

    And… does anyone else find the OPs experience with apple fishy?

    Says they’re calling him everyday. Yet he hasn’t paid them a cent. He bought a product from a reseller yet Apple seem to be bending over backwards… telling him all kinds of things… doesn’t quite add up to me.

    • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 15:47
      -2

      Generally there are the same people over and over in here finding everything I am saying fishy no matter what evidence I provide. Not even the ones that found my eBay account. Said it was 15 years, it is, said it was 100% it is. I didn't post my eBay ID, they went out of their way to find it. Said I didn't get a refund show up, I haven't.

      Posted serial numbers, receipts, proof of purchase. What more do you people want to not attack the person who gets (profanity) over?

      At some point you gotta wonder if people on OZ bargain are super bitter. So many commenters, you read through their comments on other posts. And there's a trend.

      "New account down vote him"
      "You got what you deserve"
      "Generic snark comment"

      No matter the forum post, no matter the person who posted, the general snarky comments are pretty much all over. Specially in a few people who posted on the first page. And they've been here for 8-10 years. WOW.

      One user went out of their way to find my eBay account, I messaged him about it, said, "show me your eBay ID than, we're all for sharing personal information". He never replied…..

    • Bront-1800 on 02/09/2019 - 15:49
      +1

      Op complains they don’t earn enough money

      sits on ozbargain all weekend and all day arguing - no time to make extra money

      This thread has been hilarious and scary (for how entitled some millennials are). I fear for them when they enter the ‘real world’.

      • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 15:50
        -1

        Lol it's like this ^

        "Milennials" "apple users"

        All over the place.

        "OP is a POS (insert reason), (insert thing commenter hates)"

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/09/2019 - 15:58
      +1

      And… does anyone else find the OPs experience with apple fishy?

      Yes.

      Their story doesn't add up. Their story has changed and morphed over the course of yesterday.

      OP is either seriously lacking communication and life skills, a troll, or is incoherently obtuse. I honestly can't work out which.

      • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 16:00
        +1

        Its actually just who can come up with the most clever long winded jab I guess. Fishing for upvotes.

        "OP is a POS (insert reason), (insert thing commenter hates)"

        OP is either seriously lacking communication and life skills, a troll, or is incoherently obtuse. I honestly can't work out which.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/09/2019 - 16:39
          +1

          You have received 365 negative votes (and counting) from your 160 replies on this thread.

          You are either seriously lacking communication and life skills, a troll, or incoherently obtuse to receive that significantly relevant feedback.

          Or are you suggesting the 100-150 members who negged you are ALL wrong? Do you honestly believe you have actually properly handled this entire debacle with the seller?

          • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 17:54

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: You have literally sat on here down voting everything I type lol. Do I care about down votes? That's not a measure of whether not people are right. That's just circle jerking.

  • spackbace on 02/09/2019 - 17:05
    +4

    OP if you're going to complain about how the replies have been, then you really need to take a good long look at yourself.

    Your post has gone through so many revisions it's just crazy. You never gave the full story from the start, just fragments that have changed over the course of time.

    You've replied to comments while you're obviously angry/annoyed, instead of stepping away from the keyboard.

    This whole debacle started by you buying a Macbook that wasn't new. Whether that was the seller's fault, or an accidental occurrence (they just shipped it out without checking), no one will ever know. You went on about minor vs major issue, when it was an incorrectly advertised issue - used is not new. In this instance, refund is your best and only bet. Apple wouldn't magically make it new again, and would likely just tell the seller to refund you and give them a slap on the wrist. ACCC would've chased a refund for you as well, as it was misadvertised.

    You're going on and on but you've been lucky to get a refund without much hassle. Most people struggle to get that and actually have to use the services of ACCC or the courts to push companies to do the right thing.

    Your eBay discount coupon is gone but so what, it'll come back. These things are here every month.

    You selling your old laptop before this one came in is just your dumb luck. What happened if the new one was lost in the mail? You'd be out of pocket the same amount, and be without a laptop.

    In summary, just give it up. People have responded to your comments appropriately as each part of the story comes along. You weren't entirely upfront from the start so the comments might not have suited the final outcome. Deal with it, it's your fault for not being 100% true about the story.

    Move on with life.

    • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 17:24
      -3

      I'm not even arguing about the damn computer anymore. People just taking jabs at me for upvotes. The computer is over in here. It's done. You're right. Move on. Now its just witty, shitty comment season.

      I've seen your comments. Like many others on here. Once you read through the history.

      One user on here asked for some advice to find drop shipping. You replied with a comment that was of no help. Then Hybroid jumped in and had to get his jab in.

      For doing what? Asking for some advice to sell items?

      Maybe after 7 years on this site, you might wonder some people get accustomed to just shitting on other people that post here.

      Yes the stories changed a bit as I, learned new things about it, got more information.

      https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/480798

      What is the point of even posting these comments below?

      +3 votes
      Spackbace 18 hours 38 min ago
      If someone had a good product that made them money reselling, why would they tell you?

      votesbookmarkreporthide

      +2 votes
      Hybroid 18 hours 32 min ago
      What do you mean? You don't get random OzBargainers to put together a get rich quick and easy business case and strategy for you?

      Zeggies comment was just embarrassing. Turns out the kid is 16 and just asking some advice.

      +1 vote
      zeggie 7 hours 27 min ago
      Have you considered seeking and obtaining employment?

      I hear it provides practically guaranteed returns for every hour you put in.

      votesbookmarkreporthide

      Vman384 5 hours 30 min ago
      I already have a job just wanted something extra bye I’m only 16 guys so not thinking of something huge

      • spackbace on 02/09/2019 - 17:41

        Really, you feel the need to go through my comments? Feel free, I've got nothing to hide. Might take you a while however. While you're at it, feel free to see the posts and contributions I've made to this site, not some forum post whinging about everything. Some of us actually do contribute positively to this site, you should try it some time.

        • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 17:43
          -1

          I'm sure you've contributed a lot, I never said that. Those comments were on the post when I saw it, then I saw the comments were the same kind of tone on mine, same people. With the same kind of witty reply. They're just not useful.

          • spackbace on 02/09/2019 - 17:44

            @checkingthisout: Yeah because his post was about as helpful as yours.

            The world doesn't owe you anything, and a random internet forum for bargain hunters doesn't need to side with you. If you wanted everyone to break out the violins and jump on your bandwagon while you soap-boxed, maybe you should've said from the start.

            Sorry, I didn't know you didn't have a backbone. I'll remember that for next time. Not that I think there'll be a next time, I doubt you care about the actual deals section or any other post that isn't your own.

            • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 17:46
              -1

              @spackbace: Sigh. I've made you angry because I said you don't need to have a witty reply to every post on this site. But for good measure. Had to say I don't have a backbone. Just to get something in.

              • spackbace on 02/09/2019 - 17:48

                @checkingthisout: No, I'm not angry at all. You get under my skin no more than a feather would.

                The computer is over in here. It's done.

                Time to shut down this shit-show of a post though.

                • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 17:49
                  -1

                  @spackbace: You sure are right about that and many others threads where 90% of comments were snark and 10% use. We can end this now.

                  • spackbace on 02/09/2019 - 17:50

                    @checkingthisout: Feel free to leave a review

                    Would be hilarious to read

                    • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 17:51
                      -1

                      @spackbace: Sites done nothing wrong. People choose to have a go at people for fun. Should we just agree that this is a waste of time and end it?

      • Ughhh on 02/09/2019 - 17:52

        replied with a comment that was of no help.

        "helping" doesn't always equal to spoon feeding the answer. Imo the answer was to get the Op to think about what he's asking for. Everyone wants to make money, and at 16yo, it's not too late to learn that people are selfish when it comes to money . You can learn that for free, or experience and pay for it later in life.

        • checkingthisout on 02/09/2019 - 18:01

          Your answer to the kid was "Ask Gerry Harvey or Kogan, they'll tell you all his secrets."

          Which wasn't really any lesson of any sort.

          But yeah I get it. You're all here for fun comments and bargains. I get it now ok, this shits over.

          • Ughhh on 02/09/2019 - 18:06

            @checkingthisout: Kogan has shared his experience and how he rose to where his business is today.

            If you only want to look at things in the negative way, then negative is all you'll get.

            Your attitude is what got you into this place with the store and on the forums.
            Do some yoga or something.

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