eBay Seller Sold Damaged Replacement Device as 'Brand New' Tried to Force Me to Accept It

Lcheckingthisout on 30/08/2019 - 20:30
Last edited 02/09/2019 - 09:37 by 1 other user

Update:

Apple rang me and said they’ve been investigating the device.
Apple devices can only be activated by opening the device.
Device was delivered to me on 22nd August
Device was first activated/opened 17 July (5 weeks before me)
Apple believes it’s possible the device was refurbished/repaired/replaced.
Then sold to me as 'Brand New' in hopes the consumer wouldn't notice.
Replaced/Refurbished/Repaired devices do not hold the same value as 'brand new' devices
So for the store, withholding that was in their best interest

And

Apple devices that arrive “Damaged on Arrival” are replaced
It’s easy for any supplier to do so with Apple
You cannot replace a refurbished device
You absolutely cannot replace a third party repaired device

No wonder the seller bailed when I said I wanted the device back to investigate with Apple/ACCC.

Was the damage on the top casing done during any replacement/repair?

I don't know yet.

PROOF: https://imgur.com/a/Ectbjs1

TLDR: Seller lied about selling a brand new macbook, it was damaged and replaced, tried to force me to accept it, once i said i wanted the ACCC involved, seller tried to get out of the sales transaction by refunding me, but no money has arrived and that doesn't mean they didn't commit a crime.

I purchased a 'brand new' MacBook 15"

Seller said it was in original condition, sealed, never activated and brand new as if from an Apple store.

Arrived and was damaged with a scratch

Rang Apple and Apple notified me the device was activated 5 weeks before my purchase

Get a call from Apple and Apple states the only way to activate a device is to open it and setup

Apples confirms refurbs and replacements keep their old warranty, stating it's likely it could be replacement or refurbished device

Seller gets item on Tuesday, by the Friday, still Apple and myself calling each day to ask for a replacement, each day seller says "we can do a replacement"

By Friday afternoon, seller still hasn't begun the replacement process, ignores me for a replacement

Friday afternoon i ask for the item back and to take it up with consumer affairs and Apple as i am unhappy i was sold a misleading product

Seller try's to initiate a refund and cuts of contact

Still don't have money in my PayPal or bank account and the computer is still at the seller.

Computing

closed Comments

JTTheMan on 31/08/2019 - 13:15

Thanks for the headache after reading two pages of the same thing going around in circles. Can I have a refund please? You can keep my vouchers!
HardlyCharly on 31/08/2019 - 13:36

Boo hoo you got your money back after sending the device back to the seller, lol, you deserve everything you're copping in this thread.
- checkingthisout on 31/08/2019 - 13:39
  
  -3
  
  No i got the money back the seller got (still don't have the refund seller didn't refund via eBay like normal) and lost the use of the 15-20% in discounts which is $525-$700 off a MacBook of the same value. Which funny enough mate. Is the same price as what i pay for a 'brand new' device if i had the use of those discounts right now. But yeah, righto, Boo Hoo. $700 + the covers/protectors and shipping costs. Chump change for you legend. I'm currently doing my work on my 2008 MacBook. So nice comment.
  
  "Plus members get 15% off your purchase, up to AU $1,000.00 off.
  Redemption code: PLUSAUG15 Redeemed" Nice one.
minniethemoocher on 31/08/2019 - 13:57

+1

This has happened to most of us. I bought an iPhone XS for an awesome price with a coupon from a seller on eBay. It failed the first day. They wanted me to take it to apple for a refurbished model. I refused to accept a refurbished model for an item that was less than 24 hours old. I had to push for a refund and the refund wasn’t enough to cover the price of a new iPhone XS so I was essentially out of pocket. But I wore it because that’s how ebay/online shopping works, the seller isn’t a retail shop who you can go to and arrange a swap. You just have to live with it.
- checkingthisout on 31/08/2019 - 14:03
  
  That's unfortunate mate. I got lucky with my iPhone on eBay the other day. Took a long time to search for the right seller though and make sure the device was legit. Got 2 in the end. For a family member as well, but it tooks days to make sure i wasn't sending my family members a refurb dud.
- whooah1979 on 31/08/2019 - 15:27
  
  I had to push for a refund and the refund wasn’t enough to cover the price of a new iPhone XS so I was essentially out of pocket.
  
  You are entitled to a refund which what you received.
altitudinous on 31/08/2019 - 15:23

+3

Geez, this is the definition of a first world problem. Returned the item to the seller, actually got a refund, still complains.

I'd be clear of you if I was the seller too.

Move on.
- checkingthisout on 31/08/2019 - 15:48
  
  Because i got a damaged device that the seller wasn't able to replace because they lied and the device was activated 5 weeks before i received it damaged. The refund was only for the amount i spent. Now i cannot afford the same computer as i have lost the vouchers discounts i had only once to purchase a MacBook on eBay. As of now, i can no longer afford this computer and am using my 10 year old computer until the same discounts come around. Thanks
  - Bront-1800 on 31/08/2019 - 17:05
    
    +1
    
    Were you expecting them to give you more of a refund than what you paid for it?
    
    The code thing is an eBay issue. Go to them - don’t bag the seller out about things out of their control.
    
    And why the Mac for that price you can get a semi decent Lenovo with decent specs?
    - checkingthisout on 31/08/2019 - 17:18
      
      No i wanted the seller to honour what is a standard policy for a device that arrives damaged.
      
      Here's the replacement device of the same consumer.
      
      But they couldn't do that because they were dishonest about the device being 5 weeks old. I keep having to repeat that. In standard sales, you can get a replacement from the upstream supplier if it's DOA/Damage on arrival. But not after 5 weeks. That is EXACTLY what happened to me. I was never told that prior to sale. I wouldn't have wasted the discounts i had on a non 'brand new' device.
      
      Yes i started looking at Lenovos, but the 52, P43 or whatever they're called are pretty expensive with UHD screens 16GB ram etc. I do need a replacement for my work ASAP. So i will most likely need to look at windows PC's as i cannot afford a 15" model now or i have to hope there is another discount. Which is hmm.
      - profar on 31/08/2019 - 17:23
        
        @checkingthisout: Hey broken record ( BR ) PLEASE start a poll of 1) BR should be happy provided full refund
        
        2) BR should be unhappy and waste more time chasing something that will never happens
        
        checkingthisout on 31/08/2019 - 17:28
        
        @profar: Again, didn't read the fact that a refund doesn't replace the loss by choosing the wrong seller. Nothing of value added by your comment.
        
        AND it's NOT the choice of the seller to choose an outcome.
        
        (4) The supplier must, in accordance with an election made by the consumer:
        
        (a) refund: (i) any money paid by the consumer for the goods; and (ii) an amount that is equal to the value of any other consideration provided by the consumer for the goods; or (b) replace the rejected goods with goods of the same type, and of similar value, if such goods are reasonably available to the supplier.
      - Ughhh on 31/08/2019 - 17:41
        
        +1
        
        @checkingthisout:
        
        No i wanted the seller to honour what is a standard policy for a device that arrives damaged.
        
        Do you think there's a chance you may have misinterpreted the ACL?
        
        If other stores went over the top and gave a replacement + refund, would you call this "standard policy" and thus demand this store to follow suit?
        
        Repair, replacement or refund
        You can ask a business for your preference of a free repair, replacement or refund, but you are not always entitled to one. For example, the consumer guarantees do not apply if you got what you asked for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else, decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it.
        
        See: Exceptions to consumer guarantees
        
        If you have a minor problem with a product or service, the business can choose to give you a free repair instead of a replacement or refund. When you have a major problem with a product, you have the right to ask for your choice of a replacement or refund.
        
        https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees…
        
        Do the marks and scratches affect the functionality and purpose of the device?
        If not, then it's a minor problem.
        
        Then today they refused a replacement/repair and without asking refunded the money, because i said i'll take it up with the ACCC/Apple instead, as they were refusing
        
        In guessing The 4 letters ACCC, is what got you into this mess. You didn't need to mention ACCC, unless you were planning on ~~reporting~~ threatening them.
        
        checkingthisout on 31/08/2019 - 17:51
        
        @Ughhh: https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2013C00004/Html/Volu…
        
        This is federal legislation not the ACL which goes over the ACL and is different from state to state, in all states the consumer has the say over what the choice is according to FEDERAL LAW. The seller does not get the choice, it is the consumer. All these comments are wrong.
        
        "For example, the consumer guarantees do not apply if you got what you asked for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else, decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it."
        
        Minor issues are literally for change of mind or price drops, a wheel can be replaced simply on a car, it's minor. Take the car off the road for a month. It's now major. Not for damage or false advertised warranty periods.
        
        MINOR:
        
        "A minor failure is one that can be fixed within a reasonable time frame. A good example of a minor failure is if you find a piece of loose thread on an item of clothing you’ve just bought."
        
        MAJOR according to ACCC:
        
        "acceptable in appearance and finish – for example, a new toaster should be free from scratches"
        
        https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Electrical%20%26%20whit…
        
        And you all say it's "minor"
        
        MAJOR according to the ACCC:
        
        "A major failure with a product is when:
        a reasonable consumer would not have bought the product if they had known about the problem. For example, no reasonable consumer would buy a washing machine if they knew the motor was going to burn out after three months
        the product is significantly different from the description, sample or demonstration model shown to the consumer. For example, a consumer orders a red food mixer from a catalogue, but the mixer delivered is green"
        
        Would you buy the computer at the same price as other retail units using your thousands of dollars if you knew the unit wasn't actually brand new and that the unit would have damage? No.
        
        Read the document above.
        
        The ACCC says the damn color being green instead of red is MAJOR. Jesus.
        
        Is not brand new and scratched considered Minor? Sweet! Should have just gotten the wrong color then instead…. Think about that. Literally all the information i've been told is wrong.
        
        FURTHERMORE:
        
        ACCC says Minor faults are faults that are easily replaced/repaired, but if the seller fails to be able to repair/replace the unit within a reasonable time they become MAJOR.
        
        "Otherwise, a fault that cannot be repaired, or is not repaired within a reasonable time, can be treated as a major failure and the buyer can reject the product and demand a refund, replacement or the difference in value, accordingly."
        
        The seller told myself and Apple repeatedly that they could get a replacement, over and over again. But in the 4 days they had the unit they didn't ring the supplier once. The whole process should take 2 weeks. The unit arrived on Tuesday, you think by Friday they would have at least asked their supplier?!
        
        Now we get to the problem:
        
        Seller misrepresented the item as 'brand new'
        
        Arrived damaged
        
        I sent the unit back for the unit to be checked for repair/replacement which is NORMAL according to the ACCC for Minor/Major issues.
        
        Seller couldn't repair/replace because they lied about brand new and ran out their return period with their supplier.
        
        Instead of saying "Sorry, we should have told you the device was 5 weeks old before selling it as 'brand new' to you. They instead wen't "accept this quality and leave us alone"
        
        Returned the money without asking the consumer what their choice was.
        
        Removed all discounts i used on the next purchase leaving me without the ability to buy another MacBook at that price.
        
        To anyone that reads this, don't listen to the junk these people are saying. Read the law. It's clear and use your rights under the ACCC/ACL and consumer laws. Nothing is a 'threat' these systems are in place to protect consumers. If they weren't needed ACCC wouldn't be in place. The same way royal commissions into priests, banks, aged care are all in place. To protect what happens everyday. Nothing is a 'threat' that is your choice to get your items back and pursue whatever avenues you want. No business has the right to force you to accept their version of a warranty or to force you to accept unfavourable terms.
        
        To the people telling me this issue is 'minor' you're wrong, and that it isn't the choice of the consumer, again wrong. If it's 'minor' sure they had the choice. But it's not a missing screw, it's the top case having damage and the item not being brand new from the date of purchase. So, totally and utterly garbage replies here by people pertaining to be so right. But yet being totally wrong.
        
        Ughhh on 31/08/2019 - 19:22
        
        +5
        
        @checkingthisout: Whats the point in this thread? You already know everything, an expert in Consumer law.
        
        Are you seeking strangers approval? Were you looking for people to give hold your hand and tell you are a victim and you are never wrong? Or did you just wanted to bitch and moan?
        
        If you are that confident, then you don't need to prove or argue with strangers.
        
        checkingthisout on 31/08/2019 - 19:23
        
        -4
        
        @Ughhh: I didn't know this yesterday. I do now because i spent today researching it. The thread was to get peoples advice. I got some good ones (which i followed up) and some absolute garbage too and everything you said was Minor was wrong. ACCC calls wrong color Major, you call a scratch and false warranties Minor. What do you want me to do when you're wrong mate?
        
        follow on 31/08/2019 - 19:41
        
        @checkingthisout: just note that all they'll do is mediate. the store can ignore them if they wish.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 12:13
        
        @follow: Turns out device wasn't brand new and was repaired/refurbished/replaced as Apple stated today. Seller tried to sell it off as 'brand new' in hopes someone wouldn't notice.
        
        I can check a warranty length. See other comments. Thanks
        
        follow on 01/09/2019 - 12:30
        
        @checkingthisout: what i meant is they'll refer you to ncat (or whatever is in your state) if the seller doesn't play ball. they did this with me regarding a warranty issue.
        seeing as they refunded you already, i dont see this going anywhere.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 12:32
        
        @follow: Yeah i get what you mean because they refunded my money you assume the law just stops being in place. That is not how it works. I have no money in my account by the way. They've just said they refunded it.
        
        Does that make it clearer? No money, no computer. But it's not my property. Got it!
        
        The law doesn't stop because you decided to return money, what if people want damages/costs? Not that is what i am saying, i just wanted a replacement. But what you're saying isn't correct. The law is ongoing, you're just saying this issue is minor. Well, with all the evidence i have provided, how on earth could it be minor?
        
        follow on 01/09/2019 - 12:36
        
        @checkingthisout: what are your expectations when you make a complaint to fair trading?
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 12:38
        
        @follow: Well, to honour the original contract. My money for a brand new Apple device. Is that unfair on the trader? They're an Apple authorised dealer, they have access to their supplier and the ability to remedy device faults.
        
        Apple is very clear to me, multiple times, this is the normal outcome if i so choose. But because the device wasn't brand new, the seller is obviously trying to have me bare the costs of their faulty device.
        
        That is why they tried to get me to 'accept the device as is' in a message on eBay.
        
        They will most likely package this device up, and sell it as 'brand new' to the next person.
whooah1979 on 31/08/2019 - 15:37

Op, this is your next step.
https://www.ncat.nsw.gov.au/Pages/apply_to_ncat/apply_to_nca…
- checkingthisout on 31/08/2019 - 15:37
  
  -1
  
  Ok thanks mate.
  - Vote for Pedro on 31/08/2019 - 18:54
    
    Let us know how you go.
    - checkingthisout on 31/08/2019 - 18:55
      
      I'm not going to sue them or anything, that's just a bit much. But i will ask for advice from the consumer affairs and accept and outcome they have. People calling it a threat is just so strange. What is it there for if i can't take the computer back, get ACCC involved and wait the outcome.
      
      I'll post the outcome here, even if i am wrong.
savagethree on 31/08/2019 - 19:39

+3

Sounds like OP forgot to wipe his browser history before sending the laptop away.
CalmLemons on 31/08/2019 - 20:14

+5

OP is a perfect example of how not to go about things in life.

TBH if I was the store owner I would ban you for life as you seem to be an absolute pain in the a***.

You just make it a whole lot more expensive for everyone else on ozbargain and consume government resources when you’re complaining about getting a refund.
- checkingthisout on 31/08/2019 - 20:18
  
  -5
  
  Nothing is more expensive for anyone mate and the fact that you have any ability to buy an item and not receive a damage item or have any warranties/rights is because of the system in place.
  
  You can ban a consumer from any future purchases. Cool. I don't care. But you can't suddenly start shipping bulls*** products and then just say "too bad" to the people that buy it because they wouldn't accept A) Your broken product, B) The stores poor service.
  
  Every damn day there are companies trying to make a buck off of consumers. I could have ordered another MacBook for the same price with the discounts i had. This seller just doesn't care. 2.7 stars out of 5 on google. Come on. They obviously do not care..
  
  https://www.accc.gov.au/speech/companies-behaving-badly
  
  Take a hike.
  - omguleh on 31/08/2019 - 22:09
    
    +4
    
    What did eBay say when you presented them with the facts? Your major gripe is your lost eBay coupons/discounts isn’t it? That’s an eBay thing and not a seller thing.
    
    Did you receive an invoice with the purchase? I’m pretty sure it would have listed the product at the full price and not what you have paid (at least that’s the case with all the coupons I have used).
    
    I bought a $4k MacBook Pro using vouchers too for my relative overseas. Invoice listed the full amount paid. Claimed the TRS off the full amount as well.
    - checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 12:57
      
      -1
      
      Really eBay didn't do anything wrong here. The seller did, i'll get to eBay once i have a proper outcome with the seller and the laws in place around purchasing goods.
      - pwnd on 02/09/2019 - 13:15
        
        @checkingthisout: You have your proper outcome from the seller. They have agreed to give you a full refund. End of case. Now go to ebay and ask for your vouchers/coupons back.
        Make sure you tell them you will take this to the ACCC if they do not listen. What could go wrong?
andyken on 01/09/2019 - 00:32

In my opinion, selling second hand, refurbished or used as brand new is a crime. It is not a minor, it is simply wrong!! The fact is the seller selling as brand new. Do you want brand new lenovo you bought has been open, used and scratch and lenovo claim it as minor issue??
- checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 07:43
  
  -2
  
  That's exactly what Apple told me via the phone. That any device that arrives with anything different than 'brand new' they send a replacement. That's why Apple called the store as the store was an Authorised reseller. It's DOA according to consumer law and is the choice of the consumer to refund (most of the time people would take this), replacement (what I wanted), or a refund in the drop in value.
  
  I'll let the consumer affairs tell me if selling an activated device as brand new and not bothering to fix the damage is 'minor'.
  - xuqi on 01/09/2019 - 14:34
    
    Consumer affairs won't give a damn as you received your 'full' refund.
    
    Accessories you bought for it, or lost eBay discounts isn't something consumer affairs will take in to consideration.
    
    You don't like the store? Tough, leave a factual, negative review and move on.
    - checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 14:36
      
      I never got the full refund, i don't have the money and that is just the word of the seller. Now i know they lied about so many things to do with the quality and authenticity of the device, do you think i would now trust they refunded it? But thanks for just making that up.
      - xuqi on 01/09/2019 - 14:43
        
        @checkingthisout: Sorry, but your story is ever evolving which isn't a sign of someone telling the truth. Refunds take time to process so they may not be as instant as clients like.
        
        You said earlier in the thread (there are numerous posts of your confirming refund) that you got your money back in response to multiple posters:
        
        "They refunded the money sure, but with the eBay coupon and eBay plus % off i lost the eBay parts worth hundreds of dollars. So i no longer can get a discounted MacBook because i used these on the seller."
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 14:47
        
        @xuqi: Ok here we go. Here's the PayPal account.
        
        https://imgur.com/a/Ectbjs1
        
        And semantics. I said "They refunded the money sure" taking their word at face value.
        
        But if they lied about everything else, why should i suddenly believe this too?
        
        Remember, i was made aware that the device wasn't brand new on the phone to Apple today. Sunday.
        
        If you're happy to lie about your products, you'll be happy to do other dodgy shit.
        
        xuqi on 01/09/2019 - 14:51
        
        @checkingthisout: I get where you're coming from as the seller was clearly trying to pull some dodgy crap here, but I really, don't think that consumer affairs has the power to do much.
        
        They'd need multiple complaints from users showing a clear pattern of behaviour to act, even then it should include some form of actual lost % (as in seller refusing full $ paid refund, not lost ebay coupon value).
        
        You're within your rights to lodge a complaint, and as previously mentioned leave negative (factual, leave emotions out of it) review, but I wouldn't be expecting anything further from the seller or consumer affairs $ wise, regarding lost coupons, etc.
        
        Ebay may or may not help you with a coupon of sorts to compensate you if you ask, so may be worthwhile trying them.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 14:54
        
        @xuqi: I won't be asking for the coupons. Only the replacement. I've made that very clear the entire time. Apple was very clear they're working to make that happen. The seller wasn't cooperating because they knew they lied and were trying to dodge getting any issues.
        
        xuqi on 01/09/2019 - 14:54
        
        +1
        
        @checkingthisout: Seller was caught out and was obviously trying to cover their ass.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 14:57
        
        @xuqi: Yes, there is no way to fabric a serial number warranty length on my end. So yes, they got caught and went oh shit.
- checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 11:30
  
  They sold me a replaced/refurbished/repaired device as was confirmed by Apple today.
  
  You can only activate a brand new apple device by putting in the iCloud account or by turning the device on and following through the setup process.
  
  If an item is replaced/refurbished the original warranty carries on. As is the case with the replacement i got for my iPhone 7 months back. The warranty was the same, even thought the phone was 'refubished'.
  
  I got the device in a sealed box. So it looked 'brand new' but it wasn't and that's something i'd expect from a gumtree seller. Not a business.
  
  So no, they lied to make money.
  
  The device came activated, damaged and without a full years warranty on arrival.
  
  https://imgur.com/a/Ectbjs1
  
  Proof i got it August 23rd but was originally purchased by someone else and opened/repackaged in July.
  
  I asked all the right questions and double checked to make sure it was
  
  Brand new!
  SEALED
  ORIGINAL
  Full warranty
  I was told, yes, yes, yes. I got something else.
  
  Completely against ANYTHING you've all told me, that i am some entitled prick that just gets the ACCC because i didn't get what i wanted.
  - omguleh on 01/09/2019 - 11:55
    
    This is the problem with online shopping and returns, once the goods are in their hands there is nothing you can do and all control is with the store.
    
    There’s really not much you can do here but go after ebay and see if they are willing to set you up with a goodwill coupon to same $ amount that was lost, then you can buy it off another seller.
    - checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 11:58
      
      I'll see what i can do about eBay coupon thing. Thanks
      
      Well, Apples internal team said as they're on the Authorised reseller list there are processes Apple makes sure these dealers follow and they've failed completely to do the right thing. So Apple will be following up to make sure it gets sorted. Whether or not that happens? Not sure.
      
      In terms of the ACCC, i can't stop that process now. This evidence and the things Apple has on the background of the device will be given to them.
      
      Again, all i wanted was a replacement. It would not have been hard if the device was actually brand new.
      
      I'm not going to go over how the store doesn't own the device and have say over the outcome like you're saying, people seem to truly believe that, which isn't correct. I've had multiple people from Apple's second level customer care unit call me now and some other legal department within Apple from Singapore, all confirm what my rights were over the device and how Apple outside of the ACCC was going to handle it. None of them said "the store gets the final say". Everyone of them was very clear "this is your decision what is done with this device".
      
      So, sorry, don't share your point of view on that. I also don't classify this matter as Minor, but people seem salty because they were wrong and judged me without thinking "maybe the seller was fraudulent"
      - ChickenTalon on 01/09/2019 - 12:21
        
        @checkingthisout: Btw. The ACCC won’t help you much here other than making a note of someone having an issue with a particular store. You need to speak to Fair Trading in your state. They deal with resolutions for individual consumers.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 12:23
        
        @ChickenTalon: https://www.vcat.vic.gov.au/ or https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/
        
        Someone linked this, if it gets this far then i will follow VCAT, not sure i need that level yet. I am hoping Apple/seller can work out a way to fix up a replacement.
        
        I'm also going to call consumer affairs tomorrow and get a confirmation about whether or not selling a refurbished/damaged device as brand new is illegal.
        
        I have it in writing that Apple was happy to work with the reseller and pay any service fee in order to get this matter sorted.
        
        ChickenTalon on 01/09/2019 - 13:07
        
        +1
        
        @checkingthisout:
        
        confirmation about whether or not selling a refurbished/damaged device as brand new is illegal.
        
        It is. The goods must match the description. However VCAT will likely be satisfied that you have been given a full refund of the purchase price. They would probably also want you to be refunded the shipping costs too.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 13:40
        
        -1
        
        @ChickenTalon: I haven't been refunded though. As nothing is in my account.
        
        As you've stated it's illegal. So VCAT satisfaction i can't comment on. Consumer affairs and illegal practices that's something i'll need clarification on tomorrow.
        
        But in terms of the ACL. We can all agree it's not a 'minor' fault now that it's illegal. Ok now it's a major fault.
        
        Remedies for major problems:
        
        Consumers are entitled to:
        
        reject the product and choose a refund or replacement, or
        keep it and the seller will compensate them for any drop in value.
        
        By keeping the product from me, i lost the ability to "keep it and the seller will compensate them for any drop in value." Transfer of title is not complete until i confirm i will give the item back for a refund. It was only in the sellers possession as they have the right to check the unit.
        
        By ignoring my request for a replacement the seller didn't follow the law.
        
        This is the law, not just some loose guideline. Fraudulent sales is the law too.
        
        The seller does not get to choose and the seller does not own the property.
        
        You keep confusing this as a minor issue, but illegal sales, faulty items aren't minor.
        
        If you can clarify how it's still a 'minor' issue, please do.
        
        What’s a major failure?
        
        "You would not have bought the product if you had known about the problem. For example: You would not purchase a laptop if the screen became unreadable within a few weeks."
        
        "For a major failure, you can request your choice of a refund, replacement or repair (if possible) from the business."
        
        https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/consumer-rights-and-advic…
        
        How is this so hard to understand? Just refunding the money, or saying you did doesn't mean you didn't break the law. Committing crimes is back dated.
        
        ChickenTalon on 01/09/2019 - 15:26
        
        @checkingthisout: You are indeed correct
- rlay3 on 01/09/2019 - 22:54
  
  Among all the hostility I've finally found the reply that actually points out the real issue here.
  
  Retailers don't just chicken out every time a customer mentions ACCC unless they're doing a lot of dodgy things. OP you should report your incident anyway in case it's one of many.
profar on 01/09/2019 - 12:27

I thought if you wanted brand new you simply buy in a original sealed box not supposedly brand new in generic box or other .

Simple commonsense .

I’m assuming you got a monster discount prior to coupons definitely not in a sealed original box and the whole world to blame except for yourself .
- checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 12:31
  
  -1
  
  Again with the assumptions because you were wrong. When you're wrong, admit it and accept it for next time maybe?
  
  I didn't get a 'mega discount' the same computer i can get for $200 more right now on eBay and that discount will be over by the time i get my refund. Getting the picture?
  
  The seller didn't want eBay involved, they returned the money via PayPal, it's 'pending' whatever that means. I see nothing in my account 2 days later.
  
  I got the device in a sealed/original box. That doesn't make a difference though. Replaced apple devices keep their original purchase date. That means it's repaired/refurbished or replaced and the sellers customer didn't want to keep the replacement so they sold it as 'brand new' and hoped no one would notice.
Resin on 01/09/2019 - 12:39

-1

Op could only be an Apple user. So convinced of a fabricated myth.
- checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 12:40
  
  I just added my receipt with the redacted store information, you can find that online yourself if you really want.
  
  https://imgur.com/a/Ectbjs1
  
  Check the Serial number online mate. Check the facts. Fabricated myth? How do i make up a device being 5 weeks old prior to my purchase mate? The serial number is there for all the see. Go look it up yourself…. Generalisation of apple users as if they're just happy to get scammed on eBay. lol Sorry i didn't take it lying down like a normal Apple user.
  
  "Apple warranty activates after you have setup the product for the first time, not the day you purchased the device."
  
  Therefore why was the computer activated in July mate and i got the computer in August.
  
  The mental gymnastics you have to do to make yourself believe your own junk must be high.
  - DASH8 on 01/09/2019 - 13:09
    
    Mate,mate,mate
    - checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 13:16
      
      Ma ma mate
      - Resin on 01/09/2019 - 13:48
        
        +2
        
        @checkingthisout: The fabricated myth is that you have convinced yourself that it was a major fault rather than a minor fault and that you should have some recourse but since it is a minor fault and you have received a refund, you are entitled to nothing more than that.
        
        Im not saying your story is not true. The only thing you could try to pursue is false advertising (refurbished product not brand new), but i dont believe that would net you a new macbook.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 13:53
        
        @Resin: You get your answer here about misleading, false advertising. https://www.accc.gov.au/publications/advertising-selling/adv…
        
        You're so sure it's a minor issue because it's a 'scratch' you're focusing on.
        
        I can imagine it now, you're a car salesman, a new car get's purchased, the customer inspects the car and sees a scratch, you reply "its just a scratch, accept it". Not only that the owners notices the car was sold as 'brand new' but it's actually a repaired car. That would go down well according to the ACL. Now put the car for my computer and try to do some 2000 Sydney olympic level mental gymnastics for me to tell me it's minor.
        
        Don't mind doing the back flips you need to do in your interpretation of:
        
        What’s a major failure?:
        "You would not have bought the product if you had known about the problem."
        
        Lying about warranty lengths
        Lying about the description
        Lying about the device quality/manufacture
        Trying to force the consumer to not exercise their rights
        Confiscating the item once they do exercise their rights
        
        If you can really argue the above constitutes that the seller didn't know and that they made a mistake in the description and in their messages, and on the phone, and on the phone to Apple. Then yes. It's simply a 'minor' issue.
        
        Resin on 01/09/2019 - 14:01
        
        @checkingthisout: All of the other points you add are an extrapolation that you have made, you dont know what happened on their end. Most retail businesses would send the product back to apple to get replaced if a customer got a refund. Who is to say apple didnt send this back to them; What im getting at is that you dont know.
        
        What they did was promptly refund your money and that is all you are entitled to. I wouldn't want to deal with your self-entitled behind either so they probably made the right choice. It was a risk assessment and im glad for them that you have no recourse.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 14:04
        
        @Resin: Again, with the garbage, assumptions. Self entitled? I got sold a device that was known to be faulty, known to not be brand new and you're still getting down and kissing the cheeks of the seller? Dig up. Not down.
        
        The seller got the device on Tuesday, by Friday they still hadn't contacted their supplier. They said over and over "We can offer a replacement but it is hard"
        
        It was HARD because they lied. That was it, nothing else but then the below.
        
        "29 False or misleading representations about goods or services
        
        (1) A person must not, in trade or commerce, in connection with the supply or possible supply of goods or services or in connection with the promotion by any means of the supply or use of goods or services: (a) make a false or misleading representation that goods are of a particular standard, quality, value, grade, composition, style or model or have had a particular history or particular previous use; or (b) make a false or misleading representation that services are of a particular standard, quality, value or grade; or (c) make a false or misleading representation that goods are new; or (d) make a false or misleading representation that a particular person has agreed to acquire goods or services; or"
        
        https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2013C00620/Html/Volu…
        
        "Who is to say apple didnt send this back to them" Right, they got it Tuesday at 10:30am, sent it to Apple same day, Apple returned it back next day after they spent 1 minute checking it, then on Friday they refunded me. GOT IT! 48 hour turn around time for a replacement/repair check. That's some super duper level mental gymnastics now.
        
        Resin on 01/09/2019 - 14:09
        
        +2
        
        @checkingthisout: You just go in circles mate. Perhaps you need to look inwards to discover the real issue.
        
        Best of luck to you
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 14:11
        
        @Resin: And you can't actually prove the seller didn't try to defraud me, yet i show evidence, and you're still going back for round six with them for the night.
profar on 01/09/2019 - 13:07

Don’t you get it if sold brand new in a original sealed box that’s 5 weeks old you have this seller for fraud . File your report of if it makes you happy with the relevant authorities. Leave it with them don’t BR them . I know you have a lot of time .

From a fraudulent seller getting a full refund I would be a happy BR ( that’s point that can’t be drummed into your head )
- checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 13:17
  
  Is there a reason to write a new thread every time?
  
  I have a lot of time cause i can't do the work i get paid for cause i don't have a computer adequate for the purpose :)
  
  Thanks for being a broken record about me not being a broken record though.
profar on 01/09/2019 - 14:15

I have a lot of time cause i can't do the work i get paid for cause i don't have a computer adequate for the purpose :)

If I was missing out on all that biz ( assuming worth decent $$$$$'s) I would pay the extra few hundred for a similar computer . Or maybe a real solution ( couple peanuts being earned)for you is to run down to your local library . Because of the weekend probably overbooked lol .

On the note your waiting for the same code to pop up again . I'd prefer to use a normal 10% off ( yes its going to cost you a little more boo hoo ) because there no guarantees that code going to come again .

checkingthisout 55 min ago
Is there a reason to write a new thread every time?

Trying to make you feel how annoying BR's are :)
- checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 14:17
  
  I do not have the computer and the refund is unlike any PayPal refund i've had before where it sits in limbo. My PayPal balance is $0 and the summary shows no incoming refunds.
  
  I purchased the device with discounts, it's already an expensive device, you save for a while to be able to afford them.
  
  I cannot exercise any purchase, i do not have the money in my PayPal account.
  
  Do you read?
  - whooah1979 on 01/09/2019 - 14:28
    
    +1
    
    The standard procedure is for refunds to go back to the source. Look at the original transaction for more information.
    - checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 14:28
      
      -1
      
      I checked both the card it was made on and the PayPal account. Nothing. I can accept that it could take a few days, but usually PayPal would notify me and because the seller didn't refund via the eBay panel is super suspicious.
      - whooah1979 on 01/09/2019 - 14:41
        
        +1
        
        @checkingthisout: The original transaction should have an update following a refund. The settlement may take a few days after the update.
profar on 01/09/2019 - 14:24

^# change your tittle bud " Seller refunded money without asking "

I be MOST concerned about getting your $$$$$$$ from we both know what kind of seller .
- checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 14:28
  
  I changed it, it's literally what happened. If that isn't true then i don't know what title is.
  
  I made the mistake of putting the title wrong and people assumed i already had my money back and i was just being a whiney bitch cause i didn't get what i wanted. But i got lied to and i lost out. It happens sure. But it shouldn't. telling me i 'threatened them with the ACCC". Can't even understand that.
DingoBilly on 01/09/2019 - 14:57

+2

Wow, you're still going on about this. Your story has also changed a fair bit. You openly write that you received a refund earlier, now you're saying you received nothing. Sounds dodgier by the minute.

Assuming you did receive the refund as you originally said, you've thrown away hours of time and now maybe even lost the refund somehow, and you continue trying to justify yourself here for some reason. Do you think it's been worth all this time to try and claw back a few $$$?

Different story if you never received a refund but that was not your original story and you've said in multiple comments you did receive it so I don't buy this new story. Seems like you're just trying to get sympathy/justify your actions of being a real pain in the butt customer.
- checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 14:58
  
  I put the refund in the images of the PayPal account.
  
  https://imgur.com/a/Ectbjs1
  
  Have look above
  
  The seller who lied to me in messages and in their listings and on the phone about multiple things to do with this transaction. Including warranty terms, condition of the item, their ability to process a replacement, what they were doing. But this morning Apple rang me and told me the device can only be repaired/replacement/refurbished and was originally purchased/activated in July or earlier.
  
  Sorry, but if i am told something is new and that's a lie, i'm told something has a year warranty and that's a lie, i am told the device wasn't a replacement or refurbished and that's a lie. I should trust that the money coming back is the truth too?
  
  Before i did. Now, i'm not so sure.
  - Edeena on 01/09/2019 - 15:04
    
    +1
    
    Did you get a refund email from Paypal? I've had eBay sellers refunding me before but it didn't show up in my Paypal account although I got the refund email from Paypal. The funds took about 3 business days to show up on my bank account.
    - checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 15:07
      
      I got an email about the shipping costs, that's $30 usually i've gotten refunds from eBay sellers and it's been instant. So $30 should be instant.
      
      The seller didn't refund via eBay did it via PayPal. That's not normal for me.
      
      I do not know at this time.
      
      And i only got told today by Apple that there is no way the device was brand new. I did not know that on Friday or Saturday when i wrote this.
  - xuqi on 01/09/2019 - 15:08
    
    It will take a few business days. If they initiated it on Friday afternoon as per OP, you should see the $ early next week.
    - checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 15:10
      
      Ok, i'll keep an eye out, always had sellers do it via eBay. Thanks
bbqwer on 01/09/2019 - 15:11

+12

OP. No offense here. May I know your ebay id please ? So I can put yours on blocked list -
- checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 15:13
  
  -5
  
  Dw if you block people cause they don't like being defrauded by you and because you don't like following the ACL law, then you've got bigger problems then just me for your store.
  - bbqwer on 01/09/2019 - 15:17
    
    +7
    
    Its not about ACL or anything. I just dont want to deal with you. Thats all.
    - checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 15:18
      
      -4
      
      That's interesting cause in the 15 years i've used eBay i have 100% rating and never had a single issue that resulted in this level of bullshit.
Empharand on 01/09/2019 - 15:23

+2

OP, please move on. You got your refund, you aren't at a loss apart from a little bit of time, just move on and buy another Macbook elsewhere.

Just stop.
- ChickenTalon on 01/09/2019 - 15:28
  
  +2
  
  Except he hasn’t. PayPal shows no refund, PayPal would show this straight away, even if the funds take a few days to appear on the payment method.
  - Empharand on 01/09/2019 - 15:33
    
    +1
    
    Doesn't always come through straight away, for all we know he paid with PayPal which took the balance from his bank account in which case it will be returned to his bank account early next week.
    - ChickenTalon on 01/09/2019 - 15:38
      
      +1
      
      PayPal will show it instantly
      - Herbse on 01/09/2019 - 16:06
        
        @ChickenTalon: It will say "refunded", but the actual money could take a few days to clear into the card or account it was paid from.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 16:07
        
        @Herbse: Nothing says 'refunded' for me. Definitely always did with previous refunds. Especially from Chinese sellers, their refunds were instant every time. You can see the last refund i got was instant and that came from a Chinese seller.
  - Randolph Duke on 01/09/2019 - 17:53
    
    +2
    
    OP said they had received the refund earlier. A constantly changing story on a new user. Seems legit.
    - checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 18:23
      
      Showed proof it hasn't above.
      - Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 01/09/2019 - 18:28
        
        @checkingthisout: Wrong. Refund will show under the original transaction. OP has conveniently not screenshot that.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 18:30
        
        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: What are you talking about. Goto PayPal, the whole timeline is in date order. By money in money out based on dates. What a dumb comment.
        
        Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 01/09/2019 - 18:32
        
        @checkingthisout: Screenshot the original transaction expanded.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 18:48
        
        -1
        
        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Does that satisfy you detective?
        
        https://imgur.com/a/Ectbjs1
        
        Why would i just make this shit up?
        
        Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 01/09/2019 - 18:53
        
        @checkingthisout: Screenshot the original transaction expanded.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 18:54
        
        -2
        
        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I'm not posting more shit just to satisfy you, you've got more than enough to make up your mind. You've just already made yours up.
        
        Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 01/09/2019 - 18:56
        
        @checkingthisout: You stated twice in this thread that you received confirmation the refund was pending.
        
        You refuse to screenshot the transaction.
        
        One must wonder why.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 19:00
        
        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I don't think you know how PayPal works. Refunds are in seperate tabs in green with a "+" sign. Not in the original transaction.
        
        I said i was told a refund was going to happen. I didn't say nor never said i confirmed that is what i wanted.
        
        I got an instant refund of the shipping price. But nothing instant for the computer.
        
        All my PayPal refunds have been instant.
        
        Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 01/09/2019 - 19:07
        
        +1
        
        @checkingthisout: Really?
        
        Care to explain this refund I received last month. Not green. No + sign.
        
        https://imgur.com/a/xZjO8Dq
        
        I don't think you know how Paypal works.
        
        It's very interesting you go to the effort of taking screenshots of everything yet neglect to screenshot the most relevant thing - especially considering you've stated you received confirmation of pending transaction.
        
        checkingthisout on 01/09/2019 - 19:23
        
        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: If only i had a detective like you to help me crack the case of the seller, all of this might have been much simpler….
        
        https://imgur.com/a/Ectbjs1
        
        Go have a look
        
        I can tell you now, i see what you're seeing in other refunds i've gotten. But i DO NOT see this here.
        
        The seller has obviously done or is doing, or will do the refund OUTSIDE of eBay, WITHOUT asking me. I have no idea if it's been ACTUALLY done or WHY they didn't do it VIA eBay….
        
        If it was in eBay i would have seen it straight away come up as a return.

eBay Seller Sold Damaged Replacement Device as 'Brand New' Tried to Force Me to Accept It

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