Are German cars still risky to buy?

SlavOz on 14/09/2019 - 16:24

My car has come to the end of it's life so it's time for another one. I've always owned Japanese/Chinese/Korean cars for the reliability and invulnerability, but Im thinking it might be time to go for something a little nicer.

My budget is around $20k (maybe a tiny bit higher) and was looking at the Audi A5 (second hand obviously). I've always bought used cars in the past and have never been burned as I know what to look for and what to avoid.

Question is, what's the likelihood on average that I'll be paying for expensive repairs on a second hand German car? Traditionally I was told to stay away unless you don't mind paying stupid prices for tiny things playing up all the time, but is this still true?

Automotive

Comments

        • the4thzodiac on 16/09/2019 - 23:47
          +1

          Which year is it, btw?

        • Other on 18/09/2019 - 10:51

          Audi's are a heap of crap.
          They are the poor mans mercedes, even though they charge the same.

    • Mitch889 on 16/09/2019 - 11:08
      +1

      Not sure an Audi is the best yardstick for German reliability.

  • iforgotmysocks on 14/09/2019 - 23:15
    +4

    Don't mention the war

  • MELso on 14/09/2019 - 23:22
    +5

    The Audi A5 (along with other VAG products of the pre-2012 era that would be in your price range) had a bad oil burning problem due to poor sealing of the pistons.

    Avoid like the plague!

    • brendanm on 15/09/2019 - 09:28
      +3

      Why do people spout random rubbish like this. The turbo 4 cylinders petrols have this problem, the others not so much. Most modern cars now burn oil due to low ring tension for better economy.

      • MELso on 15/09/2019 - 11:06
        +1

        Well, I suppose the OP could go for the turbo diesel, which was affected by the emissions scandal and may have had its performance gimped as a result, or the 3.2L which also has issues with piston sealing on enough specimens to make buying one a risk. Some choice!

        (At any rate, cars should not drink 1l of oil for every 500km of motoring, as the faulty Audi turbos do…)

        At any rate, http://australiancar.reviews/reviews.php#!content=recalls&ma… makes for interesting reading…

        I personally wouldn't buy an Audi or other VAG product from that era because it's just too big a gamble both because of the deficiencies in engineering like the DSG and engines, and because age-related issues will now start rearing their ugly head…

        • brendanm on 15/09/2019 - 11:19

          Nothing wrong with the turbo diesels, simply don't have the "fix" applied.

          No, they shouldn't be burning that much oil as I stated. Though as I stated, lots of vehicles have the same issue nowadays.

  • maybeamacy on 14/09/2019 - 23:46
    +5

    I have an Audi A5, nothing has gone wrong with it but I have a facelift B8.5 3.0 TDI which is one of the more reliable combo's.

    MELso is right, pre-2012, they were problematic. First generation DL501 DSG gearbox being used, oil consumptions in the 1.8/2.0TFSI's, swirl flaps going out on the 3.0 TDI, etc. Most issues were addressed with the 2012 facelift. Would I buy one if I had $20k to spend? Nope. But if you can stretch to $30k, that will buy you a nice example.

    Servicing is a tad more expensive, eg. the Germans like to change both brake pads + brake rotors as a set, together. They say it's because there's a lip created on the disc so it can't be re-machined or the rotors won't last the life of 2 sets of pads, etc. Quoted something ridiculous like $1.5k to change front pads and disks, got an independent to fit them for me for like $200-300 with DBA T2 rotors and Akebono pads, etc.

    If you go to Audi for the 60k major DSG service, they quote like $2.2k, independents are like $1.1-1.5k. Definitely more expensive than the Japanese. Requires special grades of oil too (VW 505/507) which you will rarely see come up on special on Ozbargain and when it does come on special, it's like $50 for the VW-specific castrol edge vs $30 for the castrol edge deals that everyone jumps on.

    You can get parts cheaper if you can find the OEM manufacturer for the genuine VAG parts as previously mentioned, eg. TRW makes the Audi control arms and are a hell of a lot cheaper than buying Audi branded control arms - they're the same thing with the Audi logo grounded off when purchasing from TRW directly. Takes a bit of research and homework, also have to import parts yourself, etc.

    I like to keep up with the preventative measures too, I do an oil change between services, service the gearbox earlier than recommended, etc.

    If you want something with a bit less worry, get a Lexus. I had an IS250 for 5-6 years and had literally no issues and no worries, just serviced it by the book. The Audi - my eyes & ears are always alert to anything that sounds expensive (nothing yet - touch wood). I'm also waiting to order a Corolla Hybrid as a second family car as well, don't want to have the worries of owning 2x VAG products if I get a Golf! :p

  • HardlyCharly on 15/09/2019 - 01:29
    +3

    Bad idea. Get a used Lexus.

    • SlavOz on 15/09/2019 - 11:55
      +1

      I would love to but they're hard to find. I only drive manual so every search I do for any kind of car goes from 1000+ results to about 5.

      • ShortyX on 15/09/2019 - 19:29

        I only drive manual

        Any particular reason why?

        • pegaxs on 16/09/2019 - 09:02

          Oh, me too. I want to see what canned, cliche response we get. Will it be the “more fun” or the “more skill”? Will it mention the fan favourite “slush box”? Maybe a reference to “real drivers”. Really hoping for a mention of “moar power”. Fingers crossed.

          • Euphemistic on 16/09/2019 - 09:06
            +3

            @pegaxs: I much prefer a manual, but an auto is great in traffic if that is where you do a lot of driving.

          • ATangk on 16/09/2019 - 11:01
            +1

            @pegaxs: I though the reason to get a manual is to get a thrashed clutch plate that you can lovingly replace yourself when you first buy the used car.

          • Randolph Duke on 16/09/2019 - 12:29

            @pegaxs: There’s not much argument about manual being more fun if you enjoy a drive on a twisty road. I say that as an auto owner for 10 years.

          • SlavOz on 18/09/2019 - 14:05

            @pegaxs: Personal preference. Auto gearboxes don't know the condition of the road, what's ahead, or what I'm planning to do. That's undeniable so I prefer to be in control.

  • PlasticSpaceman on 15/09/2019 - 07:41
    +17

    Audi used to be the poor person's BMW. BMW was the not quite as poor person's Merc. VW owners dreamed of anything else. Volvo owners smugly told people about how safe and reliable their cars were and were in turn ignored. Saab, Peugeot, Citroen, etc were those weird people who ate food with spices. All used to be way better than any Japanese car. Except maybe Alfa and Fiat that either exploded or fell apart due to rust or usually both, but their owners suffered from Stockholm syndrome so were special cases. Most people had Ford or Holdens that were cheap to buy and maintain, and were basically crap but when they broke most things could be fixed with fence wire found on the side of the road. But things change. The Japanese manufacturers significantly improved their manufacturing processes. Other manufacturers in other countries saw that and in turn did something similar. A current comparison is here: https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/reliability/

    Personally - if going an old car, then Japanese or Korean are likely to be a little cheaper to maintain. If you want European, I'd probably choose Mercedes or Porsche with the knowledge that maintenance costs will be higher. But choose well. Reliability of models varies within all manufacturers…..

    • liongalahad on 15/09/2019 - 13:45
      -1

      Uhm.. Since I have memory (I'm 36) Audi costs pretty much the same as a BMW 🤔

      • PlasticSpaceman on 15/09/2019 - 14:53
        +2

        So, quick mental maths, you started driving around Y2K. You are but a youngling. My biases go much further back. ;-)

        • field1985 on 15/09/2019 - 18:23

          Yeah in the early 90s Audi began to shift its target market upscale to compete against Merc and BMW. This began with the release of the Audi V8 in 1990. Prior to that they had more of a rally/racing focus, rather then luxury.

        • liongalahad on 15/09/2019 - 22:05

          Yeah I remember my dad bought an Audi 100 2.5 TDI Avant and was pretty much on par with a BMW 5 series in terms of price. In fact he had to decide between the two and went for the Audi cos he liked it better aesthetically. Must have been 1992 or 1993.
          In the 70's and 80's though yeah I guess it's true, Audi was not on par with BMW's and Merc's. Then in the 90's it became the luxury brand in the VW group.

          • freddofrog42 on 17/09/2019 - 11:03

            @liongalahad: Arguably Audi started getting major attention with the release of the Quattro, the Rally car for the road. That was around 1980 and was based on the Audi 80. Turbo, 4wd etc and such a lovely noise.

            This was swiftly followed by the new Audi 100 which introduced a dramatically aero-styled body including a wagon version. It morphed into the 200 which was similar but more luxurious and often turbo/4wd.

            From that point on Audi never really looked back…

            Certainly this era of Audi where very well built and reliable. I owned 4 of them and all required very little expense. 10,000 mile oil changes etc. The one that I had the longest records for was written off at 235,000 miles due to accident damage. All the mechanical stuff was perfect.

  • afah0447 on 15/09/2019 - 10:00
    -1

    'Japanese/Chinese/Korean cars for the reliability and invulnerability'

    • Chinese??? Really??? They are super shoddy compared to Germans cars. The Germans have and always will manufacture the best cars in the world.
    • [Deactivated] on 15/09/2019 - 10:54
      +8

      Why do you say "will". How do you know Vanuatu will not overtake in 400 years.

      • Roman Sandstorm on 17/09/2019 - 11:50
        +1

        Vanuatu will be under water in 400 years.

        • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2019 - 12:20
          +1

          Exactly. Water-cooled factories.

          That's how they're going to get ahead.

  • Kapinny on 15/09/2019 - 11:15
    +1

    20k get a used liberty

  • pegaxs on 15/09/2019 - 11:16
    +14

    For most “Euro” vehicles, my favourite saying is;

    “If you can’t afford a new *insert random Euro brand*, you certainly can’t afford a used one…”

    The things that will kill you will be servicing costs, labour costs and spare parts costs. And it’s going to need plenty of all 3.

    • freddofrog42 on 17/09/2019 - 11:10
      +1

      If you know where to look spare parts aren't that bad at all, or just buy from overseas.

      Japanese parts aren't always cheap either e.g. a PAS hose for a Mazda was recently quoted to me as $468 to which I politely refused and got Pirtek to make one for $150. The same part for the US market is available aftermarket and costs $40.

      You'll often find many helpful forums for Euro vehicles and I've found that actual OEM parts are more readily available than for Japanese vehicles, i.e. it easier to get the actual part as supplied to say Audi as it's made my Bosch, Jurid who will sell to the public either directly or via distributors.

  • PerthectDeal on 15/09/2019 - 12:20
    +3

    Learn how to do an oil change will save you a fortune.
    My BMW has condition based servicing so I do an oil change myself ($55 and 30 mins) then an independant mechanic service every 2 years ($300).
    Over 10 years old now and been very reliable.
    If major parts break then it will be expensive but I would first try to source from Internet maybe uk before walking into a BMW dealer here.

    Had a Holden before and would have paid more for servicing and maintenance than I have so far with a BMW for the last 7 years.

    • biozet on 16/09/2019 - 09:56

      my first euro was a used bmw 3 series. an excellent car. rear wheel drive and extremely economical.

  • Numlock on 15/09/2019 - 12:27
    +7

    Mate just buy a camry and be done with it.

  • Bid Sniper on 15/09/2019 - 12:32
    +3

    German no, Audi hell no. If German BMW is probally safest of a bad bunch.

    So many better options.

  • abuch47 on 15/09/2019 - 13:05

    The amount of brand sluts here is disgusting. Weigh up every option stop being "loyal"

  • oshe on 15/09/2019 - 13:48

    Japanese cars take 91 fuel, european cars 95 fuel, 95 fuel is a rip off. Mechanics also charge premiums on servicing, owning a European car is just not Ozbargain

  • boostpak on 15/09/2019 - 14:22
    -7

    Have had many used bmws, have had used audis and one mercedes. Never had an issue with any. Dont listen to the rubbish these toyota fanboy tightasses on here spit out. Theyve never owned a german car as they are too tight and wont spend to buy one. Its that simple, so then they bag what they dont have out. Toyotas are the most boring, uninspiring, plastic feel cars, along with all chinese cars

    • onecentaday on 15/09/2019 - 14:47
      +7

      You've obviously never owned a toyota

      • boostpak on 16/09/2019 - 10:01
        -2

        i've owned 4 toyotas before. The new toyotas are plastic rubbish

    • spaceflight on 15/09/2019 - 21:19
      +1

      I have recently sold my BMW and gone to a Toyota.
      The Toyota build quality is much better.

      The plastics don't squeak and they haven't deteriorated from the sun.

      • boostpak on 16/09/2019 - 10:02
        -3

        lol if you actually think the build quality is better smh

        • spaceflight on 16/09/2019 - 10:19

          The BMW was rubbish.
          After less then 3 years all the plastics squeak as I drove down the road. Bumpy roads were worse.

          The door handles were almost like they had melted, the plastic broke down and was sticky.

  • geoffs87 on 15/09/2019 - 14:55
    +1

    I bought a 4 year BMW X1 about 2 years ago, the last 2 services have cost a lot. First was ~$500 service with $1500 brake replacement. Second service was ~$500 major service with about $1200 of filter replacements (including a $600 diesel filter thingy).

    Mechanic reckons this years service given the condition of the car will be just a $4-500 minor service. Honestly though, I’m thinking of selling it and buying a rav4 or CX5, I’m also partial to the Renault, all 3 have pretty good 5 year capped servicing plans.

    Only problem is, none of them drive as nicely as my X1, that I will have to sacrifice for affordability and reliability methinks,

    • dazeet on 15/09/2019 - 16:18
      +1

      Have you driven the latest CX-5 Akera or GT with the 2.5T?

      • geoffs87 on 15/09/2019 - 16:30

        I haven’t actually, I was thinking if you’re at that price point you’re nearly back in X1 territory, so I give up, haha.

        I’ve done this dance for about 6 months now… look at about mid range Japanese, dissatisfied with performance and features, add everything back into price, and yeah end up at German price point, so I get angry and go back and drive my x1 🤣

        • dbun1 on 15/09/2019 - 21:10
          +1

          I do have to agree.

          Whilst the Japanese and Korean cars have come a long way, they just don’t drive as well as the European equivalents.

  • CalmLemons on 15/09/2019 - 16:55
    +1

    Had issues with mercs and bmws all the way through, major repairs though were all covered by the dealer.

    It's true, german cars just aren't ozbargain.

    Toyota all the way. When I drive corporate jap cars I have the most peace of mind knowing something dumb isn't going to happen to the car mechanically.

  • HeWhoKnows on 15/09/2019 - 17:02
    +1

    German cars are great when brand new and under warranty but a terrible purchase second hand.

    The reasons are numerous:
    Very expensive parts
    Parts hard to get especially if out of a major city (several days)
    Some develop electronic problems aftyer a few years (BMW)
    Super expensive repairs and servicing
    Super Expensive to insure
    Many cheaper German cars are now made elsewhere such as South Africa!
    Probably many more reasons but the same goes with most Eurpoean cars which is why thier resale value drops so quickly!

    Beware also German made cars under license such as Holden Cruze, Astra and Vectra and well as Ford Focus

    • Bypass on 15/09/2019 - 20:57
      +1

      Producing cars under licence isn’t solely a German operation, it’s done by the majority of major auto manufacturers. Toyota’s been in South Africa for decades.

    • boostpak on 16/09/2019 - 10:03

      I've had all my german cars second hand and never had any issues?

    • miicah on 16/09/2019 - 10:07

      My GTI is only $10 more a month than our Jazz to insure?

  • jonkvh on 15/09/2019 - 17:04
    +1

    I'd not bother with German stuff at all. They're designed to get you back into the dealership for servicing. You'll get stung on parts when you least expect, then you'll want to offload it. But beware, the VW/Audi dealer network can iffy to deal with at times. So if you have any 'unique' issues pop up, be prepared to find an independent Euro mechanic.

  • m0nkeycheese on 15/09/2019 - 18:15

    Dont do it. Have a pretty sedate 07 VW Polo 1.4l. Live in a small town so impossible to get parts fast, and they cost more. Would never buy one again. Engine strong but inside is falling apart

  • [Deactivated] on 15/09/2019 - 18:52
    +5

    German cars have very poor reliability, I wouldn't recommend one.

    Source:

    • I lived in Europe for 25+ years
    • I've owned, Mercs, VW and Audis.
    • My parents currently still own a Merc in which they've poured over $30k in repairs.
    • My brother in law, who still lives in Europe, is one of the few experts in his country authorised by VW/Audi to repair absolutely anything and, in his words, "As long as they (Germans) will make cars, I have job security. The reliability is extremely poor, under every other brand almost. I don't understand how they manage to keep selling their shit."
    • spaceflight on 15/09/2019 - 21:21
      +3

      What does your brother in law drive?

      • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2019 - 17:39
        +2

        He currently has a Toyota and a Mazda.

  • Laziofogna on 15/09/2019 - 20:28
    +1

    100 certain you’ll pay a lot for service, parts and anything in between. If you can afford it though they drive like a dream and they are beautiful

  • [Deactivated] on 15/09/2019 - 21:10
    +1

    German cars are a cash cow to the mechanic when they are out of warranty. Ask a mechanic what they own and drive I bet its a Toyota.
    Get a price to do a transmission service on a BMW and a Toyota Camry. Don't believe that all transmission is sealed for life of the car. If you read closely, its seal for life of the warranty. When the warranty finishes its your problem.

    Dealers wants to sell you a new transmission or better yet a new car when your transmission fail because its good business.

    Hello DSG (dog shit gearbox)

    • Laziofogna on 28/09/2019 - 18:15

      But why a mechanic should fear repair costs when he can fix it himself?

  • Kkuba on 15/09/2019 - 22:03
    +1

    I went from a Japanese sports car (Nissan 180SX) to a BMW 135i.

    The BMW is of course a far nicer car, but failures on the BMW have been far more frequent and costly.

    The car has never left me stranded though.

    I have mitigated this by doing all my own work, but to give you an idea, this is the sort of stuff that has happened:

    I have gone through several water pumps (~$650-900 each time - brand new, depending where you buy the parts from), I had a turbo wastegate actuator failure, and managed to fix it (which would have simply been replaced by a mechanic at around 2+k in parts only). A door latch failure (250) and many gaskets and seals along the way as well. That's over 6 years of ownership.

    That's in comparison to probably under 1000 in replacing (with second hand) parts on the 180SX in 8 years of ownership.

    Replacing with second hand parts on the BMW just doesn't work, as they have common issues, so a second hand part will probably fail very soon.

    It's expensive, but I was prepared for it, and you should be too. It will be even more so if you are paying for labour.

    • maybeamacy on 15/09/2019 - 23:42

      I'm betting it's the N54 and not N55? I think if OP does his research and doesn't mind the extra expensive, it should be fine. If he doesn't want to do the research/risk/etc, then going Japanese is definitely a much safer bet.

      • Kkuba on 16/09/2019 - 23:31

        N54, correct.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 16/09/2019 - 06:52

    There is a thread in the last two or three days where some guy bought a brand new BMW X5 and its already needing a new fuel tank under warranty. These cars are $130k driveaway.

  • omb on 16/09/2019 - 08:19
    +1

    Audi is basically a Volkswagen with more expensive parts that wear out before
    the VW parts

    They have been designed this way because the audi buyer has more money than the VW buyer.

    Ask any experienced German Auto mechanic

  • lltravel on 16/09/2019 - 08:50
    +2

    lmao any person on ozbargian wanting to buy a luxury car will get slammed yet everyone here makes 150k with 1 million dollar savings

    Mate if your budget is around 20k don't buy a euro car

    stick to jap cars

    I have owned 2 bmws

    One had minor issues, injectors and water pump but thats normal wear and tear. Cost of all that was around 3.5k

    the second one had no issues what so ever and I had that car for 5 years.

    I am now im on my 3rd bmw.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2019 - 08:57
    +1

    German cars are not risky (with the exception of some special models i.e. Golf Mk6 118TSI) provided:

    • you have really good mechanical knowledge for the brand and mechanically brave to DIY skills with the right specialised bits and diagnostic tools , OR

    • you have financial capacity to buy a new one every 3 or 5 years.

    I have had 5 German cars before but now I drive Japanese brands cars (Toyota & Mits), and my mits came with long 7 years factory warranty.

    Again my priority now is to grow wealth to help me buy more bargains mentioned in OzBargain :)

    Otherwise i can easily splash $80k plus for a german car investment with great cashflow potentials (cashflow out..).

    Thats my 5 cents.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2019 - 09:50

    The OP is not mechanically minded, and only have the $$$ for the car but no $$$ to keep maintain it and keep it running. All show and no substance.

    A $100k BMW when new sounds like a bargain when you can pick them up for $20k used. However you are still maintaining a $100k BMW budget without warranty.

    Good luck have an extra $10k set aside.

  • ShirokaZe on 16/09/2019 - 10:39
    +1

    German cars aren't inherently risky, though the generation Audi A5 you can afford is around the peak of DSG and Mechatronics issues for VAG so the risk increases.

    When you say you want something nicer, what is nicer to you? Better quality interior? More street cred? Something that handles nicer?

    Nicer interiors than an old A5 can be found elsewhere.
    Most enthusiasts wouldn't look twice at an A5. They're just a worse Golf GTi.
    Handles like the 1500kg barge they are.

    I think you've been on the right track, stay Japanese.

    If you're only chasing a coupe I would look at an ND MX5 or 370Z for much more reliable options.

  • foolsgold on 16/09/2019 - 11:46
    +1

    I don't think German cars are particularly unreliable, certain models are more unreliable than others, and the age/ware of the car, how its been maintained in the past will dictate more so than a Japanese car and how your 'euro' experience will be.

    My general formula if you want to be safe as possible is look for a car that is
    - 1 owner
    - dealership serviced (generally means it has been looked after correctly, and not been starved off maintenance to save coin)
    - 5 years or younger
    - 50% off price originally sold for
    - less than 60,000 kms
    - get a prepurchase inspection by independent specialist

    ie.
    A $75,000 new Audi A5
    used -> $38k purchase price, you find with 35-45,000km
    1 owner (maybe just coming out of lease)
    Serviced at dealership, still with genuine parts

    Your forthcoming maintenance is likely to look like oil changes (cheap) maybe brakes and tyres, for the next 2-3 years.

    At 20k, your looking at 10 years old (double age what I suggested)
    Mileage: 100-150k
    likely to have more expensive components go or need servicing, this all depends on the car obviously.

    General things to look at to see if the owner has taken care of the car and has not tried to cut corners, this can be done before you even bother negotiation or arranging a pre-purchase inspection

    • Check gaps in service history, usually a bad sign if there's unexplained mileage.
    • Look at panel gaps, more so on doors which may show more major damage than a bumper, make sure everything aligns
    • Look at the car in bright light, see if theres a different shade on a panel etc
    • bend down look at undercarriage of car, front bumper, a careless driver will curb wheels, curb bumpers etc
    • Look at car windows, make sure everything matches, ie. Audi/VW logo on all glass
    • Look at tyres, see if you have any odd brands, mismatched tyres, all tyres have dates printed on them
    • Have a look at engine bay, boot, behind carpets, on door wells to see any over-spray, welding marks etc
    • Check PPSR to see if any finance owed, and story checks out from owner
    • General condition of interior, is it inline with other models of same age you've seen
    • Do all the pixels work on displays
    • Let go of steering wheel, is the wheel aligned
    • Try see the car when it's cold, look for oil residue in engine bay, any blue smoke when starting
    • Look for white coolant residue in engine, (all could be signs of a leak, or recent leak)

    All these things are not necessarily deal breakers but can be used to negotiate price in your favour. The older the car the more vigilant you should be Good Luck.

    • foolsgold on 16/09/2019 - 12:38

      Just read some comments above, a lot of them are over reaction on never buy euro.

      Don't go into in Blind. Can't comment for VW/Audi. I've owned 1 Golf personally for 12 months, used, could feel the DSG playing up and sold it.
      It would burn about 1 litre of oil every 3000km.
      Drove it for about 15,000km. Did an oil change my self, parts for oil change, filters and oil cost the same as my BMW (also used the same 5w/30 oil I bulk bought for my BMW)

      Fit and finish internally was good, nothing rattled etc, parts wise I wouldn't expect it to be worst or better than a BMW/Mercedes. However I wouldn't expect it to be any cheaper to fix. At the end of the day, if something went bad, I would feel worst about spending money on a Golf than I did on my BMW that I enjoyed more.

      I wouldn't cast the same brush on the whole brand from one persons experience, ie. A 2.0 TFSI DSG owner will most likely have oil burn issues, and DSG mechatronics problems (all very costly to fix) vs some one with a 3.0 manual.

  • netjock on 16/09/2019 - 15:05

    Risky? Only to your own financial future.

  • wannagrababargain on 16/09/2019 - 15:16
    +1

    You're going to have to pay extra somehow for that "something nicer" you are after. The nicer drive that is alluded to comes down to the way components are "over?"-engineered to work together. When they fail you notice something is not right with your normal experience. Want that nice German brake bite and modulation? It's because they use soft metallic pads that have a nice 'feel' but chrew through rotors. Want that nice "european" feeling ride? Then you need a super complicated independent suspension setup with about 12 different rubber bushes on each axle. When they start to go so does your nice ride and your wallet. Throw in forced induction and emissions control systems that would make SpaceX engineers cry…and you get the picture.

  • chrisd262 on 16/09/2019 - 16:42

    Maybe best to wait for a few more years?

  • asafasr on 16/09/2019 - 16:56
    +2

    Get a Lexus IS 350

  • icomeforthecomments on 16/09/2019 - 18:27
    +1

    I bought a second hand A4 which was 9 years old. Great condition thanks to quality / attention to detail. After a couple years had an annoying issue which would prevent the car from starting. Decided to buy a new Audi but in the meantime I found an Audi/VW mechanic who solved the issue on the older Audi with a $30 switch replacement. The old Audi had then about 7 years of trouble free motoring. The Q5 I purchased new 7 years ago is running great (touch wood). It had a part replaced under warranty and I had to purchase a new sensor ($280) which was the only non regular service expense apart from tyres and a battery. However do expect crazy high servicing fees via Audi. Even Euro mechanics will charge decent fees for servicing / batteries / brakes etc.

    Good luck!!

  • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2019 - 01:50

    First time I've ever heard Japanese and Korean cars lumped together with Chinese cars. Wow. And no disagreement. I guess the 2019 Steed since they promise not to use asbestos break pads again with it's mighty 100kw/212nm powerplant is a force to be reckoned with. But hang on the author says cars. Do Cherry and similar really have a market presence or history?

    • Fobsessive on 17/09/2019 - 12:12

      Are Chinese cars reliable?

  • Dreamcast on 17/09/2019 - 07:20

    Just get a corolla and be done with it!

  • Foxtail on 17/09/2019 - 10:31
    +2

    Was thinking about a new car, but as I only do about 8/10k a year and with depreciation thought buy used, purchased a one owner 2014 Mercedes C Class coupe with logs and a mere 58k's on the clock from a dealer 4 months ago, paid just $22,500 cash, it has excellent silver paint and inside like new, everything works including the massive sunroof, we're as happy as. A friend liked mine so much he bought one recently too for $25K with 44k's.

  • Fobsessive on 17/09/2019 - 12:05

    Just don't get a boring whitegood appliance on wheels

  • lostn on 17/09/2019 - 17:10
    +1

    If you intend to keep it till the end of its life, it's still going to be expensive to maintain.

    The typical lifecycle of a luxury German car is, executive is the first owner, changes car after 3 years (when it's out of warranty). Second owner buys it at a big discount, keeps it for another 5-8 years and knows very expensive maintenance is coming up, sells it to the third owner for very cheap. Third owner says, hey 8 year old BMW for $10k? Wow! I get to own that prestigious badge and it costs me less than a new Corolla. Car was originally $60k. Why the hell not?

    But then some very expensive repairs are due and the third owner realizes why the 2nd owner sold it for so cheap. It would have been more expensive to keep the car than buy a another second hand BMW.

    The reason luxury cars (particularly German) are less reliable is because they're over-engineered. They feel great to sit in, but they have more parts which means more things that can fail. And the parts are priced expensively because the intended demographic can afford it. When average Joe who wants the badge but can't afford the new sticker price decides to buy one cheap, he finds he's out of his league.

    Lexus are significantly more reliable because they're less fancy and premium and have the guts of a Toyota.

  • sct911 on 17/09/2019 - 20:34
    +1

    bought an e92 m3 nearly 4 years ago, in that time i've probably spent around
    $20-25k in parts and maintenance.

    • jubs on 18/09/2019 - 12:24

      That seems alot. Which parts did you need to change?

      • [Deactivated] on 18/09/2019 - 19:26

        M3 most likely rod bearings replacement or a secondhand engine.

        • sct911 on 19/09/2019 - 20:38

          Yep rod bearings and bolts was a big one. Also:
          A/c compressor (failed)
          oil change every 10k
          both throttle body actuator units
          rotors/pads
          clutch and dual mass flywheel,
          few seals/gaskets in engine bay(leaking oil)
          abs pump
          8 ignition coils
          battery
          aftermarket bushings/engine mounts
          clutch slave & master cylinder
          wheel bearings rear
          steering szl unit/module
          bilstein coilovers(standard shocks failed)
          subframe cracked at the drag strip and diff fell out(please don't ask how much it cost to fix)

  • buckster on 18/09/2019 - 08:21

    Maybe try a second hand Skoda as they tend to drop in value quicker you can probably get a newer one vs the Audi, and the components will still be pretty similar

  • ChatCPT on 18/09/2019 - 09:49

    Golf GTI/R Mk7

    • [Deactivated] on 18/09/2019 - 19:27

      $11k for a new DSG transmission.

  • Numlock on 18/09/2019 - 09:59
    +1

    If you can afford it, go for a Merc. If you don't mind sipping lattes every 3 months at the service centre, go for BMW.

  • This Guy on 18/09/2019 - 11:45

    A 19 plated BD Cerato Sport Auto will be as nice, if not nicer, than a second hand $20k A5. It has more tech and no ware (compared to half to a full decade's worth).

    But, if you care more about looks, go the A5. Just budget an extra $1000/yr for stuff like fuel pumps and be prepared to spend a bit on fuel.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/09/2019 - 20:26

    As someone who owns BMW, and like cars more for how they drive, rather then get from A to B, i'd say go for German car if you have a good and trustworthy mechanic!!!
    German cars are not a space shuttle or rocket science, they are risky to buy because of the dodgy mechanics. They got me ass well couple of times, but now i have a trusty and honest mechanic who takes care of my car. For example changing oil filter and oil i pay 150$ (used to pay 300$). Have trusty mechanic to inspect the car before purchase. Also check on internet if that car is known for some big issues.

  • Baa on 26/09/2019 - 09:59

    In recent years I have had a Mazda 6, Mazda 3, Mazda CX-5 and Mazda CX-9. All kept between 3 to 5 years.

    All have been super reliable however the CX-5 turbo diesel was probably the best all round in terms of value and performance with the early Mazda 6 coming a close second.

    I have also been the owner of a 2007 Golf GTI which I held on to for too long outside of the warranty period, whoopsie, $6k engine rebuild later. Outside of that never had any major problems with it.

    Have just bought a Polo GTI and will probably turn it over before the warranty runs out.

    • Fobsessive on 01/10/2019 - 20:09

      What happened to the GTI engine?

  • Phoebus on 17/11/2019 - 16:20

    In a word, yes. If you want a reliable luxury car then go buy a Lexus or Honda Legend

  • Tiredman on 21/11/2019 - 20:48
    +1

    I have a BMW E90, just spent 6k on repairs alone this year. Would've sold it if not for my wife's attachment to that car. Even DIY the radiator change myself. But runs smoothly now.

    Friend has a 2012 Audi Q5, just 45k kilometers. Gearbox malfunction, quoted around $8k to $10k to repair, three out of four doors not locking and unlocking properly. Couple of grand again. He is still thinking what to do with the POS.

    For us, if we want something nicer, will only consider a Lexus.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join