Should I be paid for being asked to report 10 minutes earlier than rostered time?

tik tok on 26/11/2019 - 14:45
Last edited 26/11/2019 - 15:26

I cannot find anything about this on the fairwork website. Can an employer legally ask an employee to report 10 minutes before the rostered shift in order to sign in and not pay the employee for this extra 10 minutes ?

I find this hard to believe. Anyway, asking for a mate and this is an excerpt from the email he got (cos he was 1 minute late on 2 occasions in a fortnight) :

We encourage all staff to arrive at least ten minutes before your shift to allow time to sign in and put your belongings away before arriving on the floor. I would like to remind you that the rostered time is the time we expect staff to arrive on the floor, not at the Centre.

How can we support you to ensure you are arriving on time?

The signing in itself is on a phone app which takes forever. Then they have to sign out/in for their breaks using the same app and get their pay docked if they stuff up the break sign in/out 'because the app says so'. In my view 10 minutes a day, 20 days a month is 200 minutes, about 3 hours of work without pay. I dont think many would care for my view - but I'd like to know people's opinion.

EDIT Just editing the question as tired of replying individually. There is no point to a reply with 'it makes you look good to the employer' bs. The mate is happy to show up 10 minutes prior, but wants to know if that is going to be paid or not ? The employer says no - so is there a law which protects him from essentially working for free. Edited the subject to reflect the same.

Education & Work

Comments

        • Whisper Quiet on 27/11/2019 - 17:38

          That's where you're wrong. You can't have them start and finish at the exact same time. Even if the staff is on time that means that the finishing staff will always leave late. How do you not understand that?! He's not saying he needs to get ready. He's saying he actually has to do work before the shift like logging in through software which takes many minutes.

          • pegaxs on 27/11/2019 - 18:01

            @Whisper Quiet: Well, I don't know where you work or what you do, but for the 8+ years that I worked at the casino, it was seldom a problem.

            If we started at 12, you needed to be at the table and dealing at 12 and if you finished at 8, you were walking off the floor at 8. Considering the size of the place and the amount of employees at change of shift, I was only rarely ever leaving work "late" (and late would be 1~3 mins)

            And they are not being asked to do 10 mins. worth of work. They are asked to be on the floor and ready to go at the time they are paid to start, not 10 mins later because they have to log in.

            My original comment was about OP bitching about having to get to work early enough to log into their system and then being butt hurt when the oncoming shift start pulling the same sooky sooky lah lah garbage.

            They are not being told to be on the workface 10 mins early, but asked to make sure they leave enough time. OP is bitching about the start of shift and my comment was designed to show the futility of it because sure as my arse points to this chair, as soon as afternoon shift started pulling the same "well, I'm not logging in till work actually starts" OP would be right back here to complain that people relieving OP's position are 10 mins late and they want to be paid for the 10 mins every day.

            It's not unreasonable for an employer, who pays you from 9 to 5 to expect you to be at your position at 9 and working. Not arriving at 9, getting changed into uniform, putting your lunch in the fridge, chatting to the team leader, putting your phone in your sock or using the time clock.

            Next thread;

            "Work expects me to leave home early to be at work on time. It takes me an hour to get to work, should work be paying me for my travelling? Or should I just leave home at my starting time?"

          • [Deactivated] on 28/11/2019 - 11:38

            @Whisper Quiet: If you have 15 minute overlap for a changeover and you have late employees, it will still cause the changeover to happen later and someone will still have to leave later than planned.

            Changeover overlap time is actual work. Expecting an employer to pay extra as an insurance against tardiness is simply not reasonable.

  • Okayy on 26/11/2019 - 18:22
    +3

    must be using bloody Kronos app that takes forever to load and sign you on! and lastly use your location randomly throughout your day even when your not on workplace.

  • HardlyCharly on 26/11/2019 - 20:39
    +5

    I once had a job where they expected me to show up 10 minutes early to 'get ready'. Thing is I could just walk in and instantly begin my job with no set-up of anything, so of course I refused as is only reasonable. Operating the required equipment, machinery, application etc, interpreting the day's tasks and information at hand according to your own skills and experience for the purposes of the role and the business is WORK, and it is illegal to do that for FREE.

    • RyanMK on 26/11/2019 - 23:38
      +2

      Reasonable in your case. But in OP's case, I highly highly doubt putting away his personal belongings is part of his job description?

      Thing is I could just walk in and instantly begin my job with no set-up of anything.

      From OP's post, this is something he is unable or does not want to do, hence the 10 minutes recommendation.

      Back in the days when I was working in fast food, some of the staff would rock up 15 minutes prior, get changed into their uniforms, before they clock on. I on the other hand, would get change at home before I drove to work, arrive 2 minutes before, chuck my bag in the back room, and get to work. No issues.

  • tsunamisurfer on 27/11/2019 - 01:07
    +6

    OP by all means DON'T show up 10 mins early.

    See how that works for you.

  • whooah1979 on 27/11/2019 - 05:45

    The job is what it is. Your friend could always find another job if they don’t like the current one.

  • brad1-8tsi on 27/11/2019 - 08:02
    +1

    When I was in jobs that weren't flex-time (motor industry, aircraft industry) we were expected to be clocked-on, on the floor and ready for work at the start time.

    This meant overalls & PPE on, coffee made, etc ready to be allocated a job.

    I work flexible hours when in the office but when i was onsite with contractors I expected everyone to be there ready to work at the agreed time as everyone is expected to attend the toolbox talk, SWMS sign-on, Start Card / Take5 run-through / sign-on, hazard ID, scope of work for the day, equipment check, etc.

    It really annoys me when somebody arrives late as you have to go through it with them individually. There are some contractors i stopped using simply because they were consistently late.

  • BertieBrown on 27/11/2019 - 08:06
    +1

    Personally, I don’t think employees should be asked to do this unless they are being paid, but, I’ve also seen the other side of the coin where I will report early because I just don’t like to be rushed (I get anxious if I’m late, and flustered) but other employees will rock up at the dot and this meant that practically they couldn’t actually start working for another 5 minutes because they were putting their bag away, taking off a jacket etc.

    So, it’s probably worth looking at the larger picture (references from your employer), as well as getting regular shifts (if you’re a casual) because employers will see the person who willingly, and happily rocks up 10 minutes early versus the person who will always get their bang on their rostered, and this means that that employer will try and give the more eager person more shifts. Also, bare in mind that you’re rostered on to work from day 1-2 as eg, so at 1 it’s expected that all of the employees focus is on working and not getting themselves ready to work.

    Also, I just generally prefer to get wherever I’m going earlier because it gives me a chance to de-stress, focus, go to the loo if need be, and be ready to work and not be stressed, but that’s just a personal reflection I suppose other people less anxious might be far more capable of just walking in and working, but my sense has always been that the people who don’t really want to be there, and don’t care usually wind up not getting shifts, or preference of shifts because their employer would rather have someone who’s eager to be there.

    • Meeb on 27/11/2019 - 08:58

      Asking people to be on time and ready to do actual work when their shift starts is something you think employees shouldn't be encouraged to do? Please start a business, I'll be your first "model" employee - I'll rock up whenever and then take my sweet time to put away my personal things, maybe take a quick nap (to be on the top of my game), then have 2-3 coffees. Don't rush me man.

      • BertieBrown on 27/11/2019 - 09:28

        What I said, in reference to the OP is that I don’t think an employee can mandate that an employer must start 10 minutes earlier than their scheduled shift.

        If you read my post I’ve suggested that employees SHOULD be motivated, or employers won’t necessarily give them regular shifts.

        Take your sarcasm elsewhere. Cheers.

        • Meeb on 27/11/2019 - 09:48

          You may want to rephrase the first sentence of your comment:

          Personally, I don’t think employees should be asked to do this unless they are being paid

          Being asked/encouraged is not the same as it being mandated… Being asked to arrive early to be ready for your shift is absolutely reasonable and should be suggested to those who fail to arrive on time (as is the case with OP).

  • Archi on 27/11/2019 - 09:08

    ohhh how dare they… so unreasonable that makes no absolute sense

  • b0rnwithabeard on 27/11/2019 - 09:22
    +4

    Sounds like your manager is just trying to ensure that people start work on time. If your shift starts at 10, you don't rock up at 10, you start work at 10. That's life. Doesn't matter where you work, you should be showing up to start work when asked. If you're gonna get pissy every time someone asks 10 minutes of your time you're going to have a long and miserable work life. Get used to kid.

  • OzHunterNSW on 27/11/2019 - 10:01

    It indicates you are not committed to your work. It shows a poor attitude. A contumacious and haughty demeanour.
    Why even bother turning up at all.
    I've the job to someone who is conscientious and glad to have a job.

  • kaos on 27/11/2019 - 12:31

    unlike some of the others I think it is a reasonable question.
    So here is the answer-
    the law requires you to be paid if you are required to be at work.

    Now, here is the 'fine line'
    That email doesn't specify that your mate is required at work 10 minutes early. It was a suggestion.

    He doesn't have to comply, so he doesn't get paid.

    HOWEVER- you mentioned he had been late a couple of times, and if he is supposed to be on the floor working at 9am, then turning up a few minutes early to make sure that happens is a really (profanity) good idea. He is letting down his co workers, not just the company by being late.

    If signing in is required and takes an appreciable amount of time, then your mate should join the union first, then ask the union.
    This is likely to cost more than his 10 minutes a day is worth, but if he's going to act like this he's going to need a union sooner or later

  • HeWhoKnows on 27/11/2019 - 12:55
    -6

    You should sign in timely at the start of your shift. If you are asked to come in 10 mins early then you are paid from that time. Thats an extra 50 mins per week. It addes up quickly. But get the request in writing from your employer

  • SuperMick on 27/11/2019 - 13:04
    +2

    I have retired now, but when I was working, as a chef, we were required to be ready to go, at the start of shift. As I went up through the chain of command, someone not at their station at start time held the whole team up. They didn't last long.

  • farknos on 27/11/2019 - 16:30
    +1

    Hmmm, i bet i could guess your mates age group.

  • Lexan on 27/11/2019 - 19:03
    +2

    I used to work as a manager for maccas. I had to start 30mins early. It's called pre shift. If busy then I had to jump the floor to help. It's really bad. Finishing 15min late too. Somehow 4hours extra a week without pay.
    To report 10min early is not that bad.

    • Omitsukasa on 27/11/2019 - 19:10
      +1

      I think that's a bad mindset to think "10 minutes isn't so bad". If people are working, then they should be paid. (Putting bags away isn't work though).
      I left my retail job because of dodgy owners who just want to take advantage of their staff. If no one would put up with it, this unfair practice will change.

    • sheepsplash on 28/11/2019 - 22:57
      +1

      This is why you’re the manager and the one who fussed about being there 10 minutes early isn’t. Honestly 10 minutes is unreasonable - they’ve prob only had to send a memo because people are not turning up on time. We used to have to get in to the hospital at 7 for an 8 am shift for patient handover and pre rounds before patient ward rounds with the bosses.

    • Chris12345 on 29/11/2019 - 23:29

      Kids in Bangladesh work 14 hour days for 50 cents. Working an extra 4 hours a week is not that bad.

  • Omitsukasa on 27/11/2019 - 19:06
    +3

    As long as you are on the floor ready to start at 9, then doesn't matter how much earlier you come.

    Putting your crap away isn't work though and shouldn't be paid.

    Coming in early to start the machines or setup crap up to be ready IS work and should be paid. Same with 10 min morning meetings before 9 - that's work too.

    • macrocephalic on 28/11/2019 - 13:15

      Totally agree. This employer doesn't seem to be mandating that the employee starts working 10 minutes early, simply suggest (strongly) that the employees arrive a few minutes early so they can be ready to start work when their shift starts.

  • sillyguy on 27/11/2019 - 19:34

    Username checks out

  • outlander on 27/11/2019 - 20:12
    +5

    I would show up 15 minutes early, and read or something. Being on time every day demonstrates reliability and trustworthiness, and it means you can do bad things later and you won't be suspected. Its a worthy investment in my books

  • jason101 on 27/11/2019 - 20:29
    +5

    If you treat the company you work for, "like you own it" - the world magically opens up to you. If you are worried about putting your bag away 3.5 minutes before your shift starts and not being paid for it, you'll probably be working at that job (or worse jobs) for the rest of your life.

    • sleet on 28/11/2019 - 19:34

      This! It's an entitled attitude vs treat it like your own business. At the end of the day, I agreed to the salary or wage, and I work like it is my own - to an extent. It sets you up for later on.

      Two great advice I've come across and try and implement is.
      - Work like it's your company.
      - How would you do the work, if no one has told you. How are different/efficient ways of doing your job rather than the routine. Sometimes the routine and standard and the best but there may be improvements.

  • lysp on 27/11/2019 - 20:36
    +9

    https://www.fairwork.gov.au/find-help-for/young-workers-and-…

    Myth 3: employees don't need to be paid for time spent opening and closing a store

    Fact: Employees must be paid for all hours they dedicate to work and this includes time spent opening or closing a store. For example, if an employee is required to be at work at 7.45am to prepare for an 8am store opening, they need to be paid from 7.45am.

    Myth 4: employees don't need to be paid for time spent at meetings or training outside their paid work hours

    Fact: If it is compulsory, then it is work. Employees are entitled to be paid for the time they are required to spend at any meeting or training.

    We encourage all staff to arrive at least ten minutes before your shift to allow time to sign in and put your belongings away before arriving on the floor. I would like to remind you that the rostered time is the time we expect staff to arrive on the floor, not at the Centre.

    How can we support you to ensure you are arriving on time?

    They are being a bit tricky with wording - ie. "encourage".

    I would ask them if they require me to be there early? If they say yes - include the 10 mins on your time sheet. If no - say I'll be there on time for my shift.

    • wyrmy on 27/11/2019 - 20:55
      +10

      Performing activites relating to the opening or closing of a store is not the same as preparing yourself for the start of a shift.

  • Wallyt99 on 27/11/2019 - 20:58

    This is illegal. Many years ago I worked at a service station. They made us arrive 5 minutes early and stay 5 late to count the till in the changeover. One staff member took them to fairwork or whatever it was then and we all got a fat cheque for backpay. From that time on we were paid for changeover.

    • Wallyt99 on 28/11/2019 - 07:05
      +1

      George Columbaris down voting me?

      • Flying Ace on 28/11/2019 - 07:18
        +1

        Suggesting you arrive a little earlier than your shift time to ensure you can start your shift at the designated time, is not illegal.

      • gromit on 28/11/2019 - 16:49
        +1

        More likely downvoted for comparing putting your personal stuff away before starting work to having to actually arrive early for work. Your situation absolutely should be paid work from a legal standpoint, the OP's absolutely is NOT.

    • dizzle on 29/11/2019 - 01:02

      Preparing the store for opening (opening till, cleaning, turning on lights) and preparing yourself (uniform straight, finished your coffee, name tag on, facebook checked, lunch in the fridge) are two different things. the first I would pay you for, the second I would not.

  • Smulder on 27/11/2019 - 21:49
    +4

    Regardless of the industry, any administration task that the employee is required to undertake as part of the job should absolutely be paid work.

    If an employee spends 10 mins a day logging in and out of the employer's systems, and this is a required function of the job, the employee should be paid for this time.

    If this causes a delay in the employee presenting on the sales floor for example, the employer should ensure the roster accounts for this and allows for sufficient overlap during the shift changeover.

    Anything less is wage theft.

  • bmerigan on 27/11/2019 - 22:06

    If signing in with an app, and when a minute late pay is reduced, surely a minute early pay is increased?
    If not maybe they should talk to HR

    • macfudd on 28/11/2019 - 22:30

      Not usually, the way the apps work is they have rules set by the employer in the background. Stuff like
      Clocks before rostered time = Round up to rostered time.
      Clocks above 0:01 after rostered time = Record as is and register exception 'Late-In'.

      Though I agree, if you have an electronic clock, just pay by the minute seeing as it does all the calculations for you.

      You could complain, but you'll probably get some excuse about how the payroll system can't handle it (if they're using one that has an app - it definitely can).

  • AbsX on 28/11/2019 - 00:32
    +1

    Bookmark and diary entries of all the days you started early (if on hourly wage) and claim backpay through fair work or tribunal when you get the next job.

    Probably not a battle worth fighting while you are still in the job but your call.

  • ro0sta on 28/11/2019 - 01:57

    Haha. As a manager, if I tell my employee his shift starts at 8am, that means he/she is ready to go at their desk (etc) at 8am, not 8.10-8.15….so yes, if you know when you need to start work, then yes, it is suggested you get there EARLIER in order to clock on/go to the loo/change/make breakfast or whatever it is that you do BEOFRE the 8am shift starts. Effectively, what you are asking for is to be paid for your "getting ready for/to work" prep time. The answer is a hard flat no.

  • myusername on 28/11/2019 - 06:24
    +3

    so you're being asked to be at work to be ready to start at your rostered time?

    i rock up to work 30 mins early each day just to have some breaky, coffee and be ready to start at my rostered time.

    it looks more professional than the person walking in the door right on starting time.

    most people have no problems with being in a few minutes or 10-15mins early

    • bmerigan on 29/11/2019 - 22:56

      It's not all that professional to be eating breakfast at work

  • Dotaguy on 28/11/2019 - 07:15
    +1

    If we get into talking about what’s technically correct down to 10 minutes, then would it be appropriate to for the employer to micromanage your friends time?

    So he arrives exactly at 9, should the employer monitor him so that he leaves exactly at 5? What if the employer monitored the breaks so that he didn’t exceed his award mandated 30 minutes or something? What if the employer started monitoring him to the minute.

    Point being, it’s not a big deal and it goes both ways. If your friend expects to be paid to the minute, then expect the employer to treat him the same.

  • AbsX on 28/11/2019 - 07:48
    +2

    So if a company has a labyrinth to get to your desk and like 10 dungeon corridors then navigating through all that should be unpaid?

    • Blitz001 on 28/11/2019 - 08:13
      -1

      Of course, you could be scrolling through facebook, organising a holiday, calling a loved one, playing a mobile game, doing your tax return, ordering your groceries, all whilst walking through this labyrinth. It’s basically like if you were home with you feet up but with your work clothes on, why would you expect to be paid for walking around your place of work?

      • AbsX on 28/11/2019 - 18:56

        And then you hit your head on a bar because your eyes were glued to your mobile screen when you should be looking at where you're walking

        • Blitz001 on 28/11/2019 - 23:30
          +1

          But remember it’s not worker comp because your shift hasn’t technically started yet.

    • wyrmy on 29/11/2019 - 00:47

      If the elevator in a shared building is normally congested should the company pay for time you wait?

      • AbsX on 29/11/2019 - 06:43

        Yes! If it's in the companies building.

        Or was this a rhetorical question? Hmmmmmmm

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2019 - 08:42
    +12

    OP, just remember you're posting in a forum with a lot of baby boomers, retirees, landlords, Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE) drones, life coach listening posters.

    You're going to get your voice drowned out by a lot of people who don't work retail/manual labour and don't work for award or minimum wage. Please keep that in mind.

    That being said, if your friend was asked to attend a quick chat/huddle, had to get something ready before his shift, open the store etc. then they WOULD have grounds to be paid for an extra 10-15 mins. You'd be right to fight for that and your friend and their coworkers would win, despite popular opinion.

    This doesn't appear to be the case in your scenario. Your friend has (IMHO) ZERO chance of getting paid that 10 mins.

    Just keep raising issues with the the timesheet app again and again until they improve it or ditch it.

    Personally, in the past, I have always gotten to work 30 mins early, unpaid, and had breakfast, coffee, go on my phone during that time instead of at home. Despite me doing absolutely zero work, the single simple fact I've always been first in to work has always been highly regarded and in one position I received an offer of a significant position to another department just because of this fact as "I must be a dedicated and committed worker" despite just going in early to eat toast and play Angry Birds.

    • tik tok on 28/11/2019 - 10:53
      -2

      Yeah. I gather that. More than half of them haven't even understood the question !!

      • Dotaguy on 28/11/2019 - 11:50
        +2

        I think people do, but your “friend” is only looking at it from one perspective. If they want to micromanage how time is applied then perhaps they should expect the same back.

        If the question is whether an employer can legally direct someone to attend work 10 minutes early without paying them, the answer is that if it’s work it should be paid.

        The practical outcome of this might be that the employer starts watching the clock more stringently and starts enforcing their rights as an employer at the same level. If you refuse to look at it from a practical and reasonable perspective I don’t think you can expect an employer to do the same

    • idonotknowwhy on 28/11/2019 - 11:29
      +2

      Hey mate, I'm probably one of these:

      Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE) drones,

      We don't really share the same views and argue about pretty much everything (left vs right, realestatevs shares vs bonds, international vs australian, growth vs high dividend, etc)
      I'm curious what you expected the opinion of the FIRE community would be on this topic?

      For what it's worth, I personally think OP should be paid for these 10 minutes. At council-run childcare centers, they would be (in blocks of 15-minutes iirc) so I'm guessing this is a for-profit private center.

      Any (profanity) around with their garbage timesheet system should be paid for as well. OP's calculation of 200 minutes per month really puts the wasted time into perspective.

      I wouldn't know what to do about it though. Could OP perhaps sign in on the train / before they get to work, while looking for a new job?

  • Sage on 28/11/2019 - 09:35

    Nah it's pretty standard.
    You have to do things like this or they'll find someone else who will.
    Life's not fair sometimes.

    I believe the idea is when the clock rolls over to the hour the worker is literally ready to begin working, not ready to start unpacking their belongings and finding their work area. Why pay someone to be in the building but not contribute work?

  • MrMoo on 28/11/2019 - 09:59
    -2

    Entitled millennials.

    Complain when told to be early, complain when reprimanded for being late 5 minutes.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2019 - 11:45
      -4

      Ok boomer.

      Gone are the days of making workers work unpaid overtime. Get with it or get left behind.

      • pformag on 28/11/2019 - 19:03

        OK renter

    • Serapis on 30/11/2019 - 15:05

      okay boomer

  • thanatos350 on 28/11/2019 - 10:09

    Back when I worked in retail, they had a 6 minute window at the beginning and the end of your shift.

    You could sign in/out 6 minutes on either side of your shift without it affecting your pay.

  • Gelato on 28/11/2019 - 11:11
    +2

    Not sure if anyone has posted this
    https://www.fairwork.gov.au/find-help-for/young-workers-and-…

  • dufflover on 28/11/2019 - 11:13
    +1

    I am at an office (IT job) where typically people including me take 10-15min to "get settled". Our boss does not seem to care but I think that's because in general things are getting done. But people aren't under a fairyland thinking making their tea or coffee is actual working time.

    I think if everyone was basically charging their 15min not working then the boss would notice and prob do something like your post.

    • tik tok on 28/11/2019 - 12:08
      -3

      Another mate of mine used to work in IT. He'd be jerking off in the toilet and when his manager asked him why he clocked in the 30 minutes he was in the toilet, he'd say 'I was thinking about the problem - doesn't matter if I am thinking about it on my computer or in the toilet. Only the solution matters' Sounded reasonable to me.

      • tryagain on 28/11/2019 - 12:32
        +1

        Except he was lying.

      • idonotknowwhy on 28/11/2019 - 12:49
        +1

        Username checks out

      • smartazz104 on 01/12/2019 - 21:39

        Probably why he "used to work in IT"; didn't he know most IT professionals just use Google…

  • I3IGN0sE on 28/11/2019 - 12:11
    +1

    There are an awful lot of comments here saying stuff like "plenty of people will do it, so you should to" "it's normal" "just get in early, it'll be easier"

    it is so (profanity) easy for a business to write up the extra $5-20 it costs you to be rostered on an extra 10 minutes early to allow for changeover. it is easy, and it is correct.

    all of you sycophants saying you should bend over for your employer to make their life easier are missing the point. you are there to help them out. them making a big deal about $5-20 which makes a huge difference to you and no difference to them are basically saying that the employers huge requirements outweigh the workers time requirements. they are paying you for your time. they should pay you for all your time. all of it. including the 10 minutes before. its in australian law, its basic human decency.

    I don't care how much you've bent over for your previous employers. Make better choices.

    • tik tok on 28/11/2019 - 14:44
      -5

      Thanks for actually understanding the question. It was hardly 15 words and most people couldn't even understand the question. I cannot believe the replies I see here. Based on the availability of such a meek work force, I think being in business will be profitable.

      Me signing in to work is a requirement from the employer. I am paid to work 9 to 5. The onus is on the employer to track my signing in and signing out. Am happy to do it on an app - but within my 'working hours'.

      10 mins a day. 20 days a month = roughly 3 hours a month of free labour. Even at min pay thats $60 a month of unpaid labour. 20 employees means the employer gets $1200 worth of unpaid work a month. About $14400 of unpaid labour a year, at least !!

    • hymio on 28/11/2019 - 17:19

      Might be the start of the day and not even a changeover.
      Though I reckon OP would show up "1 minute late twice a fortnight" even if OP's employer allowed for and paid for that 10 minute earlier start.

    • Skramit on 29/11/2019 - 15:39

      you are there to help them out.

      Rubbish.

      You are there to get paid to do a job between designated start and end times. You make it sound like starting on time is doing them a favour? Being expected to start on time is a perfectly reasonable request from an employer.

  • tryagain on 28/11/2019 - 12:31

    they are paying you for your time. they should pay you for all your time. all of it.

    Yes, the issue is that they haven't been getting it with him being late.

    including the 10 minutes before

    No, they are paying him to do some form of a task "on the floor" he needs to be there ready to do this, you don't get paid to get ready for work, you get paid to do work. If he could manage to be there ready to do the task when he is supposed too, then he wouldn,t have got the letter.

  • 91rs on 28/11/2019 - 12:48

    Retail life if a losing battle, just cop the 10 mins and be ready to do what you need to do and get on with it.
    The more difficult you are the worse retail work will be.
    Just wait until you get a real job that's on a salary and every 10mins extra you work (ha, if only I could count it in 10min blocks) is your hourly rate dropping).

  • happirt on 28/11/2019 - 12:48

    asking? then it depends on your reply.
    although, you may also not have a job depending on your reply.

  • AFOS on 28/11/2019 - 13:37
    +1

    Your friend needs to check his rate against relevant Award. If he is paid more than Award says then it can be argued that the excess is to compensate for "reasonable overtime." This may even be the clause in his employment agreement.

    If he is paid exactly as per Award then from legal perspective he may have a leg to stand on, however he will need to prove that he is ready to work/start shift the minute he is at work.

    If I were to go that path I would gather the following info:
    - email from the management requiring coming 10 mins early
    - clockings for considerable amount of time showing coming as required
    - evidence that 10 mins is excessive amount and he is ready to start the minute he turns up at work (may be industry specific).
    Hope it helps

    • hasher22 on 28/11/2019 - 21:29

      Whether the OP's friend is on an award or EBA, the OP's friend is on assuming is on wage, if they work, they get paid. Whether the company rounds it up to per minute or 5 minutes or 15 minutes then that's the company's choice.

  • j05h on 28/11/2019 - 13:38
    +1

    To be on time is to be late.

    • tik tok on 28/11/2019 - 14:35

      On the line is inside

      • j05h on 28/11/2019 - 15:16
        +2

        You wouldn’t last long where I work 😂

  • capslock janitor on 28/11/2019 - 14:15
    +1

    I find this hard to believe. Anyway, asking for a mate

    I find it hard to believe it's a mate and not you keke

  • Baghern on 28/11/2019 - 14:55

    Small company just do it, can't do much even if you complain to what ever ombudsman

    Big companies have tried this type of tactic before and failed miserably in the end, resulting in back pay and penalties.

    If this is a big company report them, if they are in the wrong they will get slammed hard.

    Without much more information the company is possibly in the wrong here.

    • tik tok on 28/11/2019 - 14:56
      -1

      The size of the company shouldn't matter. Doing the right thing should.

  • Junnyjun on 28/11/2019 - 15:16

    I read somewhere recently they have to pay you

  • Jujovitu on 28/11/2019 - 16:18

    Thats a peasants way of looking at things. If you think it's with your boss taking nearly an extra hour per week of your time unpaid, you are a peasant. Get some self respect and demand what is right. I wonder if the boss allows you to leave 10 minutes early because you need to be getting into your car no later than clock off time. Would it work both ways? I doubt it. This is a classic case of managers on a power trip.

    • tik tok on 28/11/2019 - 18:09
      -1

      Get off your high horse! Being a peasant (assuming you are referring to being a farmer) is a very tough gig !

  • hymio on 28/11/2019 - 17:00
    +1

    It's a shame that OP is so salty about this issue when their workplace is so nice about it - "Encourage", "How can we support you to ensure you are arriving on time?"

    It's not legal to ask someone to work unpaid, but that's not what your employer is asking for.

    Twice in a fortnight sounds like the start of a pattern and I think a policy reminder email is fair before a more formal warning. Being a minute late twice a fortnight can become a few minutes late once a week, then a few minutes late a few times a week. Your employer is also opening a communication avenue with you and might be able to help you shift your start time a few minutes later so you aren't rocking up late - some of my coworkers need to drop off kids at daycare and have changed their start time 10 minutes later than everyone else without a huge fuss. Most employers are understanding if you are a decent employee with a valid reason other than "I don't want to leave home 5 minutes earlier because I'm not getting paid for those 4 minutes I'm not late."

  • TEER3X on 28/11/2019 - 17:09

    I had to come in early and leave late once a month, like a few hours extra. It didn't bother me at all, and I always got a bonus at the end of every year.

    So, if you're not getting compensated one way or the either, tell them to get stuffed.

  • herecomestheoost on 28/11/2019 - 17:10

    We are requested to be there 5 minutes before starting time where I work.. A lot of losers complain about it.. I just think they're being petty.

  • k15866 on 28/11/2019 - 17:14
    -1

    get "injured" in the 10 minutes prior to work starting and see what happens

  • SydBoy on 28/11/2019 - 17:17

    I had same issue, we need to swipe card to sign in. entire building we work belongs to our company and swipe location is provided on each floor.

    Some manager insist people swipe card on the floor they work as many swipe on ground floor as they enter building as lift normally takes up to 5 minutes.

    Now morally we are at work place on time but not having faster and more life is the issue employer needs to resolve not the employee. So they stopped asking people except few low life manager insist people to swipe on their floor😀😀

  • haemolysis on 28/11/2019 - 17:46

    Seriously trying to give the impression that a sign-in process is so burdensome that it is actually a significant amount of work? Just to sign in? 10 minutes to fill your name into a system? There were better excuses available.

  • Oliver on 28/11/2019 - 18:12

    "I cannot find anything about this on the fairwork website. Can an employer legally ask an employee to report 10 minutes before the rostered shift in order to sign in and not pay the employee for this extra 10 minutes ?"

    Fair work never says anything about this because they know it is a systemic issue that happens EVERYWHERE and it would stuff up the system if they made the right and logical ruling in this regard

  • Dynosaur on 28/11/2019 - 18:22

    Technically most people start one or two minutes before a shift starts. It's quite unavoidable actually.

  • wswgin on 28/11/2019 - 18:46

    No wonder Australia's businesses are far behind, the only thing we're good at is mining, thats thanks to god blessed loacation advantage, not technology or management advantage. how can we be competitive in the world when the so many employees are argueing over arriving 10 mins early of their shift?

  • pformag on 28/11/2019 - 18:56

    wow.

  • logisync on 28/11/2019 - 18:58
    +3

    I think most people are missing the point. This has been triggered by him turning up late. If he can't make it on time then one should go earlier. End of the day if he keeps turning up ON or really close to the start time, he's going to be late again.
    If he doesn't really care about his job then keep doing it .

  • kiwimex on 28/11/2019 - 19:36
    +3

    Bloody hell get to work ten mins before start time so you are ready to get going. Stop whining about it, and think about all the minutes you steal from your employer gas bagging to you work mates, or on your phone checking out Ozbargain during that extended bathroom.

  • rubenastley on 28/11/2019 - 20:34
    +2

    I currently team lead at a contact centre. We've had staff literally ask for pay to cover the two minute it takes for the lift to go up 10 floors and the five minutes it takes for a laptop to boot up. Guess what, those people have been stuck in the same position for god knows how long.

    The way I see it, a good employee/employer relationship is not counting the petty dollars against each other. If I see an employee on time and occasionally they are late due to public transport, all is good! It works both ways..

    Before I was working in this role, I went backpacking for a couple of years. I can confidently say, Australian employees are one of the most entitled and spoilt around!

    • Tiredman on 29/11/2019 - 12:52

      "Australian employees are one of the most entitled and spoilt around!"

      Harsh but true.

    • Omitsukasa on 29/11/2019 - 18:59

      Why not be fair and pay staff for their work? Starting up machine is work. Not their problem your machines are slow and consuming time.

      The way I see it, a good employee/employer relationship is not counting the petty dollars against each other.

      Yup, if an employer is fair and pays me for getting the store ready then I'll be ok if I have to stay back a little once in a while and won't ask for overtime.

      Left dodgy retail job because huddles are unpaid. New job I happily stay back 15-30 minutes everyday without pay because management respects us so we respect them back.

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