Can Police Enter a House without a Warrant?

cauilfield on 08/04/2020 - 14:05

Victoria Police have revealed examples of some of the coronavirus breaches resulting in huge fines, including a group of mates in a loungeroom and friends in a park.
In the past 24 hours, police conducted 835 spot checks at homes, businesses and non-essential services across the state and issued 114 fines.
Seven people were fined after gathering at a house for a dinner party and three mates that did not live together were also fined for playing video games in the same lounge room.

So in theory, what happens if someone has a small dinner party and the cops knock on the door? Are you obliged to open the door and let them in?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • boomramada on 08/04/2020 - 14:07
    +3

    open the door - Yes
    stop letting them in - depend how good your lawyer is :)

  • GG57 on 08/04/2020 - 14:08
    +9

    Why wouldn't you?
    Unless of course you realise that the "small dinner party" is not in line with the current restrictions, and the police could no doubt wait outside for your guests to leave and fine them then.

      • GG57 on 08/04/2020 - 14:14
        +66

        Your "freedom and rights" come at the price of belonging to this society and conforming with the generally accepted behaviours and laws.

        I'm pretty sure that the police would find a way to impose a penalty, and would probably try harder to do so if you impeded their efforts.

        • Vote for Pedro on 09/04/2020 - 19:36
          +9

          The ‘price of belonging to this society’ is complying with the law.

          I’m not across the laws in relation to Victoria’s state of emergency, but in more normal (non Coronavirus) times, police have limited legal right to enter a property without a warrant.

      • SBOB on 08/04/2020 - 14:22
        +15

        Simply because I don't want to hand over my freedom and rights maybe?

        enlighten us to which freedom and rights these would be……

        • dcep on 08/04/2020 - 14:44
          +23

          1st amendment … ohh wait

          • SBOB on 08/04/2020 - 16:19

            @dcep: definitely in direct violation of that one

        • sarahlump on 09/04/2020 - 23:35
          +7

          the police powers act gives police ambiguous powers, they can kill you, thy can hurt you, they can take you and throw you in box for days. And they dont need a reason to. You are solely responsible for protecting yourself from them. Who investigatees the police? old mate, their buddy at the next desk over from them. DO NOT LET THE POLICE INTO YOUR HOME EVER

          • TheZohan on 11/04/2020 - 16:01

            @sarahlump:

            Who investigatees the police?

            I dunno, Coastguard?

      • Seraphin7 on 08/04/2020 - 15:03
        +3

        Agree. Perhaps we can now all let go of the myth we're not living in a police state.

        • papachris on 09/04/2020 - 00:40
          +10

          I suggest you do some reading about East German history (among many other countries), and then you can finally let go of the myth that we ARE living in a police state…

          • Seraphin7 on 10/04/2020 - 11:37
            +3

            @papachris: I prefer the taste of meat before it's been turned into leather, but hey, you do you.

          • skullster704 on 10/04/2020 - 11:53
            +11

            @papachris:

            closed borders
            restricted movement
            people spying on and dobbing in neighbours
            queues outside food stores
            shelves empty of basic essentials
            quotas and rationing
            living in fear of strangers
            suppressed attendance of religious ceremonies

            Having lived in W Germany during the 80’s and 90’s, and visited the DDR several times (not just across Checkpoint Charlie), we appear to be getting ever closer…

            • papachris on 10/04/2020 - 21:43
              -1

              @skullster704: lol - there may be a reason for many of those at the moment. Just a thought. A REAL police state does it all the time to control the hearts and minds of its populace…

              • cameldownunder on 11/04/2020 - 15:30

                @papachris: And who decides when this is over? Certainly not you.

                • papachris on 12/04/2020 - 00:55
                  -1

                  @cameldownunder: No one person decides of course. But considering we are a democracy rather than a police state, we get to kick the government out if they try to extend it beyond reasonable limits. This happened in the UK after WW2, when Churchill lost the election after 'heroically' leading them through the war. The people got sick of austerity.

                  The constitution also allows for overriding government control under certain circumstances, hence the sacking of the Whitlam government.

                  Complaining about restrictions now when they are clearly needed is neither sensible nor helpful…

        • Croshema on 09/04/2020 - 16:45

          Have we met on the Facebook group off the grid in oz?

      • TheCutter on 09/04/2020 - 22:55
        -4

        You are brave trying to explain freedom to this bunch of dumbells. They love the police boot on their throat ever since the rum corp gave them a convict mentality.
        Got a green from me

        • Piranha2004 on 10/04/2020 - 09:39

          Freedom doesnt mean you are a sovereign citizen who is free to do whatever they want. There are still laws and rules to comply with in a normal society.

          • papachris on 10/04/2020 - 21:46

            @Piranha2004: Alas, not to OzB's resident anarchists…

          • cameldownunder on 11/04/2020 - 15:33
            -1

            @Piranha2004: Laws have to be passed by parliament. Not sure if this "Stay at home" has been passed by parliament. ( Or the two houses )
            So I don't think it'a actually enforceable, and there fore nut punishable.

            • Piranha2004 on 12/04/2020 - 10:22
              +1

              @cameldownunder: They dont need to be passed specifically as the various acts provide emergency powers in such scenarios.

  • OZB Al on 08/04/2020 - 14:15
    +16

    I would guess (not a lawyer) that a bunch of cars in your front yard and a lot of noise from inside would give them just cause to investigate. Don't know if that would extend to entering your property without consent.

  • Donaldhump on 08/04/2020 - 14:15
    +11

    I’d say so, if they believe you are committing a crime

  • jimbobaus on 08/04/2020 - 14:15
    +57

    Under the corona virus rules, police can enter any property in VIC if they feel a breach is occurring.
    The rules are temp and only in relation to chief medical officer directive to stay at home and in regards to social distancing guidelines (2 people etc)

    Further to that, Standard rules are as follows:
    The police can only search you or your property if:

    you agree
    they have a warrant
    they have arrested you
    you are in a public space that has been declared a 'designated area'
    they are allowed to by law.
    Before any search begins, ask the police why they want to search you. The police must tell you why they want to search.

    If the police do not have the legal right to search you or your property you can say no.

    These are sadly not "standard times" and as such special powers have been given to the police.

    • cauilfield on 08/04/2020 - 14:21

      Thanks appreciate your response, can you advise what stipulates these rules, is there a reference I could look up?

      • Randxyz123 on 08/04/2020 - 15:17
        +43

        Since Victoria is in a state of emergency, the Chief Medical Officer has full authority to call the shots and make new rules if necessary.

        The sooner people just stop breaking the god damn rules the sooner this will be over. No, you can’t have people to dinner or play video games or hangout in a park with your mates. . Yes the cops can enter your property even without a warrant.

        Why don’t people get this? Frankly I’d call the non emergency line if I saw a neighbour having people over.

        • bmerigan on 10/04/2020 - 16:54

          Me too

        • callum9999 on 11/04/2020 - 00:11
          +1

          I completely agree that the emergency powers are a necessary evil. I completely agree that people should be complying with them. That does not change the fact that it's COMPLETELY legitimate to question who has authority over you.

          People keep making flippant comments about being in a police state - completely giving up your right to question government authority is the line that I personally think constitutes actually being in one.

        • cameldownunder on 11/04/2020 - 15:37

          The sooner people just stop breaking the god damn rules the sooner this will be over.

          Exactly the opposite. With this ratio of infection, Australia has to be locked down for another 2 years.
          The reason for Lock down is to be able to ramp up hospitals, and be able to learn from other countries ( like Italy ) who are hit harder.
          Now that Hospitals are prepared, they are going to lighten up restrictions, as long as hospitals can cope.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/04/2020 - 16:34
        +15

        Refer here, here then here s 166-170.

        It confirms everything jimbobaus has said.

    • brendanm on 08/04/2020 - 14:24
      +2

      "temporary"

      • kahn on 08/04/2020 - 14:28
        -1

        Thanks, I thought it was "temptations".

        • brendanm on 08/04/2020 - 15:43
          -4

          I was implying that they won't actually be "temporary".

          • kahn on 08/04/2020 - 15:50
            -1

            @brendanm: Yeah, I know. I was trying to flip the meaning of your comment by joking that the intended abbreviation "temp" was mistaken. Are we cool, bro?

            • brendanm on 08/04/2020 - 16:04

              @kahn: Ah I see. Yeah we're cool, this time…

        • John Kimble on 08/04/2020 - 16:09
          +6

          I thought it was tempura…mmm…tempura.

      • Harold Halfprice on 10/04/2020 - 00:59
        -2

        Of course they're temporary. Do you seriously think otherwise? The government has nothing to gain by destroying its own economy.

        • brendanm on 10/04/2020 - 10:01
          +4

          What does the police being able to enter your house without a warrant have to do with the economy?

          • Harold Halfprice on 10/04/2020 - 11:27
            +1

            @brendanm: Because we are discussing the 'corona virus rules' - which have been put in place, in a state of emergency, to stop the spread of the virus.

            Social distancing rules, forced closure of businesses, self isolation measures - these are all significantly slowing down the economy.

            • brendanm on 10/04/2020 - 11:36

              @Harold Halfprice: No we aren't, the thread title is "can police enter a house without a warrant". The comment I was replying to specifically lists the laws that have been changed that allow police to enter your house. Have you had a stroke?

              • Harold Halfprice on 10/04/2020 - 11:49

                @brendanm: This is the comment you replied to:

                Under the corona virus rules, police can enter any property in VIC if they feel a breach is occurring.
                The rules are temp and only in relation to chief medical officer directive to stay at home and in regards to social distancing guidelines (2 people etc)

                • brendanm on 10/04/2020 - 11:51

                  @Harold Halfprice: And I am suggesting that the ability of police to enter a property will not be revoked, and suspect that it is broad enough that it will apply after these coronavirus times. History suggests this is correct.

      • brendanm on 08/04/2020 - 16:06
        +17

        "trust us guys, it's just for a little while, and it's in your best interests, we're totally not doing it to remove even more if your freedoms".

      • abc123z on 08/04/2020 - 20:11
        +3

        What I have learned from this is that the rights I did think other people and myself had, do not exist and that in fact we have no rights and any small rights I might think I have even now can and will be immediately changed by the government so they do not exist if it so suits them.

        I have always believed, that in order for me to have a right, that must also come with some form of responsibility on me to balance that. So, I comply with my responsibilities on the basis that that is fair in order for me to have my rights. So now I realise that I do not in fact have any rights but have infinite responsibilities so how do I now feel about any obligation to fulfil my supposed responsibilities to society… not specifically in relation to this virus but just in general…

        • RedZed998 on 09/04/2020 - 10:38

          Rights went out with the ballot for the Vietnam conflict, went out with the GST and just wait for 15% GST to come rolling down he hill from Federal Parliament in a few months. The Recession we just HAD to have. Reminiscent of Mr Keating? Unfortunately responsibility is linked with an obligation to vote. We have no say in that, either. I appreciate that responsibility comes with an age of reasoning, but from our leaders we see division, from a holiday with grown up children sun baking in the Pacific while our towns burned, nothing short of desperation preceeds a cause for change. Except were aren't allowed to have change, not in the Constitution of Australia. When was the last time we could speak without torment?

        • callum9999 on 11/04/2020 - 00:14

          What rights did you think you had but you don't?

          Your belief that rights require responsibilities was wrong anyway, but on what basis do you think you have "infinite responsibilities"? I'm struggling to comprehend what that actually means in reality!

    • sarahlump on 09/04/2020 - 23:38
      +4

      To be fair in "standard" times a police officer can get a warrant from a justice of the peace. They can then do just about anything in your house. I had my possessions stolen, not included on a property warrant when one of my housemates were being searched by the police. When I contacted the police station to report the theft I was laughed at, when I reported it to the CCC I was visited by the police officers police officer friend and told nothing would happen. When I finally got my belongings back 2 years later and it was shown that they weren't on the property receipt and were stolen it was not investigated.

      I've been beaten by the police in the watch house, and when I reported it to the ccc they waited 12 months to investigate because they know all cctv at the watch house is deleted after 6 months. The police are not your friends.

      • bmerigan on 10/04/2020 - 17:01
        -2

        So both you and your friends have been in trouble with the police.
        It's no wonder you're not a fan of them then. Crims usually aren't.

    • Blue Cat on 11/04/2020 - 13:51

      The rules are temp(orary)

      Oh my sweet summer child.

    • cameldownunder on 11/04/2020 - 15:38

      Can I be naked in my house when the police comes? or do I have to cover up?

  • voteyes on 08/04/2020 - 14:30
    +13

    You failed the attitude test?

  • netjock on 08/04/2020 - 14:37
    +3

    Or they can just sit outside and wait until you all come out then create a scene, get your face on TV too.

    • mskeggs on 08/04/2020 - 19:02

      Waco Tx style siege was not on the dinner party invitation, but I guess the guests would be down for a stand off.

      • netjock on 08/04/2020 - 21:00
        -1

        Would be entertaining for the rest of us while we stay at home.

        • berry580 on 09/04/2020 - 21:46

          Indefinitely?
          I trust the police will find a way to deal with it.

    • jimbobaus on 08/04/2020 - 14:58
      +51

      "Dobbers" you mean people who care about their own health and that of their community who are reporting others her are flouting the rules ?

      • burningrage on 08/04/2020 - 22:52
        -5

        I disagree but anyway, let's just agree to disagree.

        • berry580 on 09/04/2020 - 21:47
          -1

          Yeah, you're worth more than the society.
          Happy?

      • sarahlump on 09/04/2020 - 23:40
        -1

        The police torture people, you mean collaborators.

    • Snake 4 on 08/04/2020 - 15:19
      +12

      @ burningrage

      Unbelievable.

      It's selfish dumb people like you why the laws had to be brought in.

      If you saw someone blind drunk weaving from lane to lane on a motorway would you call the police or let them drive on and kill someone?

      • burningrage on 08/04/2020 - 22:53
        -2

        Well, it's people like you taking extreme views of comparing people playing video games and blind drunk or serial killer.

        Let's just agree to disagree. I don't like dobbing people so karma won't get onto me one day.

        • papachris on 09/04/2020 - 00:54
          +2

          I would have thought you were the perfect case for a visit from Madam Karma if you were having an illegal party at the moment. And Madam would likely bring Master Covid as her partner. But "let's just agree to disagree".

          Of course in the olden days, you may just have been lynched from the nearest tree by your neighbours…

          • burningrage on 09/04/2020 - 17:56
            +1

            @papachris: …If I was having an illegal party, which I don't and I am not a serial party kind of person anyway (I am nowhere near Corey Worthington level).

            and I am not sure what this words mean, "Of course in the olden days, you may just have been lynched from the nearest tree by your neighbours…"

            and if it meant to hurt me, it didn't because I don't understand what those phrase mean but I trust you did not try to hurt me.

            I simply dislike dobbing people. It is unAustralian in my view. I had my neighbours having party on certain times and I was totally fine because I know my kids can be loud too and they were fine with it.

            I want nothing but good terms with my neighbour because I don't know one day I might need them to look after my house if I am away.

            And as PM said today, look after your neighbours.

            Some people may find this (refusal to dob) incredibly offensive but I know a huge majority will see this positively as maintaining social cohesion.

            • papachris on 10/04/2020 - 22:04

              @burningrage:

              and I am not sure what this words mean, "Of course in the olden days, you may just have been lynched from the nearest tree by your neighbours…"

              Lynching refers to 19th century (and before) behaviour where mobs of locals would summarily execute a neighbour who had done the wrong thing (in their view), without trial - usually by hanging them from the nearest tree as an example to others. The law of the land didn't like this of course, but as the lynch mob were all locals, nobody would point the finger so they got away with it most of the time.

              and if it meant to hurt me, it didn't because I don't understand what those phrase mean but I trust you did not try to hurt me.

              No, I was not threatening you, or even anyone having parties. It was merely a comment about how an older society may have dealt with anti-social behaviour.

              But I feel regarding all acts of "dobbing" as un-Australian is itself 'un-Australian'. Whistle blowers should be protected at all costs in a modern society. Of course it's where you draw the line between reporting illegal behaviour and simple being a sticky-beak that is the issue…

    • John Kimble on 08/04/2020 - 15:22
      +1

      So I would worry more of the dobbers.

      Worry in what way?

      • burningrage on 08/04/2020 - 22:59
        +2

        Well… neighbour had a sister (immediate family exemption?) coming over the other day. She told me she's worried of cops driving along our estate and would see a car on a driveway and would knock on the door and busted her.

        I told her you only have to worry if there are too many busybodies (or kaypo people as I told her) so yeah, hence my question.

        • downbythecreek on 11/04/2020 - 10:12
          +1

          You should have told her she only has to worry if it's outside the rules.

    • kahn on 08/04/2020 - 16:01
      +3

      I don't know the details, but aren't you're assuming it was a neighbour? A more likely culprit would be the person who was losing at the video games.

    • Never Pay RRP on 09/04/2020 - 10:20
      +3

      So is every person who reports a crime a "dobber"?
      Because I didn't get the memo on which crimes are worthy of reporting and which aren't

      • burningrage on 09/04/2020 - 18:00

        Maybe it is a statutory "crime" but those ladies of 7 gathering together (I understand they were International Students) to have dinner, not to rock the apartment with loud music or booze.

        Who knows some of them were lonely and this got the better of them.

        It was still wrong (Yes I agree) but I would disagree it is a crime in true sense.

    • jenkemjunkie on 10/04/2020 - 13:31

      The thing is, Australians love authority. Buncha puritanical wowsers pretending to be laid-back, easy going cool dudes - I’ll now join in with getting the downvotes

  • cauilfield on 08/04/2020 - 15:37
    +3

    We are not here to discuss or judge whether it's bad or not; This was not my question; My question is whether you are obliged to open the doors and let the cops in?

    Under a State of Emergency, Authorised Officers, at the direction of the Chief Health Officer, can act to eliminate or reduce a serious risk to public health by detaining people, restricting movement, preventing entry to premises, or providing any other direction an AO considers reasonable to protect public health.

    But there is nothing about entering premises without a warrant?

  • dasher86 on 08/04/2020 - 16:12
    +5

    Can Police Enter a House without a Warrant?
    yes / End thread.

    • MrBear on 09/04/2020 - 21:50

      Like, you know, when they get home from work, they have to enter their own house right?

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/04/2020 - 16:20
    +5

    Can Police Enter a House without a Warrant?

    There's a very simple test that's 100% foolproof.

    If Police knock on your door, ignore it. Don't respond. Don't answer.

    If they force entry anyways then there's your answer.

    • Yawhae on 09/04/2020 - 21:06
      +1

      You're not legally required to answer your door.

      Note: You may be up for the cost of a new front door.

  • Fredfloresjr on 08/04/2020 - 16:21
    +3

    Update us if you copped the fine

  • Euphemistic on 08/04/2020 - 16:27
    +7

    Just put a line of salt across the threshold. They won’t be able to cross it.

    • lunchbox99 on 08/04/2020 - 16:51
      +3

      TIL police are slugs and/or snails

    • Mechz on 08/04/2020 - 17:46
      +2

      Pigs like salt.

    • Falkner on 08/04/2020 - 18:30
      +2

      No you got it wrong, Pigs are allergic to wild mushrooms!

  • abc123z on 08/04/2020 - 17:01
    +1

    I in fact normally ignore my door if someone knocks unless I am both expecting someone and I actually want to see that person. Nor can I easily see who it might be without a potentially unwanted person detecting that I am obviously home so I do not investigate.

    And that is even if I have not say just gotten out of the shower or something and would have obvious reason to not answer the door for an unexpected person.

    So perhaps I would be commiting an offence now by not answering my door now dinner party or not. The fact that there are two vehicles parked outside my house (even though they are normally there) might be enough suspicion for police to break down my door if unanswered and arrest me for obstructing them or something even if I am not breaking the coronavirus rules.

    • lunchbox99 on 08/04/2020 - 17:11
      +5

      That sounds like a long-winded way of saying you hide from people at your front door. lol

      • abc123z on 08/04/2020 - 17:13
        +5

        I do not want to speak to religious people, sales people, politicians looking for votes, whinging neighbours, or anyone else who seeks to disturb my peace and privacy.

      • Mechz on 08/04/2020 - 18:09
        +5

        It's not hiding, it's just not responding to uninvited conversation. I do the same and also use the same rules when people on the street or in a shopping centre try and engage in 'conversation' when all they want is something from you and there's no benefit to acknowledgement of their existence.

        • lunchbox99 on 09/04/2020 - 16:59

          relax… it was a joke

  • iratepirate on 08/04/2020 - 17:04
    +3

    Even if you believe that police are over stepping their powers the best course of action on most occasions is to go along with them and fight it in court. You are not going to talk a police officer out of doing something they have all-ready decided they have the power to do.

    • lunchbox99 on 08/04/2020 - 17:15
      +3

      Don't tase me bro!!

    • abc123z on 08/04/2020 - 17:18

      Obviously physically trying to stop them would be a bad move, but why actually voluntarily agree to it as you may destroy your right to complain about something you volunteered to? Ask them if they have the power to come in and if they say yes then let them in.

      • iratepirate on 08/04/2020 - 18:25
        +3

        Obviously you never consent to their demands, but do not obstruct them either. A good way to resolve it is to ask if they are giving you a lawful direction and if they say "yes" say you are complying under duress.

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