Hi everyone
There seems to be a number of forums in relation to the Jobkeeper Payment. Rather than having multiple threads, ask me questions in relation to the JobKeeper Payment and I will try my best to answer otherwise hopefully somebody else can as well.
Background: I am an accountant with years of experience
You could also just take money out of the business if you know their bank login details.
Threads like this annoy me so. I have been a salary for the same employer for 6 years, I have now been stood down and my employer is ineligible for JobKeeper. At the moment I am stocking Woolies shelves for about 1/3 of my salary, on average. And then I see shit threads like this for people who want it all, F me in the A people like this annoy me.
My salary goes up every year thank you.
And I got a job at Woolies the same way as everyone else, I applied. I had applied for over 20 jobs on the first day of being stood down, because hopes and dreams don't pay the bills.
Just wow Shelby17. You're giving someone career advice?
Reading obviously not your strong suite, plus, a bit rich from you.
Hope you get the jobkeeper payment you deserve, which is $0.00
Same salary for 6 years - shows how competent you are. :p
He didn't say same salary for 6 years he said he's been on salary at the job for 6 years.
However you could take the same look at yourself - your employer is keeping people on, just not you.
As for the job at woolies - right now people are taking what work they can to get paid for. Not everyone is just looking for a handout.
@Mentallysick: yeah i misread the info sorry
No wonder you were terminated as can't read/understand you are not eligible for jobkeeper.
Employer is not legally required to keep you on payroll. You should be thankful that you still have full time job. Stop being greedy and entitled.
@dizzle: Exactly this. I don't WANT to get anything from Centrelink, but I NEED it to top up the smally pay from Woolies so I can just pay the bills.
I have never claimed a single cent from Centrelink in my life, and honestly it feels a bit shit that I even need too. But I also understand I don't have a whole lot of options at the moment.
@AdosHouse: I feel for you.
I'm a couple of weeks from being in the same position. I was given notice of redundancy before this all happened and due to finish soon. The company has been good with payments up till now, but any plans I had for finding new employment went out the window at the end of March.
I imagine I'll struggle to find a job quickly (but fingers crossed anyway) and will have to go on jobseeker until that happens. Never asked for a handout before, but it feels like a defeat that I'll have to do that now.
Hope things work out for you.
What is wrong with you?
At least you got a job at Woolworths.
Agreed, and I am happy to have it. I know plenty of others that have nothing.
I'm taking full advantage of having this job. I'm not bitching about it being a job "beneath me", or complaining about the hours (I'm mainly doing 4am online order fulfillment), or anything. Just happy to get some sort of income.
I find it ridiculous as he could at least keep me in books until I can get Jobkeeper from government.
I think that would be illegal/fraudulant. They may not have the cash up front to pay people until they get reimbursed by Jobkeeper, but anyone they have on the books is supposed to be paid. It's also to protect you from an employer who tells you that, but then gets reimbursed for that period anyway.
Basically, he does not have to pay from his pocket so I find it ridiculous despite I worked really hard when I was working for him.
He does have to pay out of pocket, until he gets reimbursed by jobkeeper.
Wondering why one would do this in a crisis situation when it is the right time to support your employees.
Since it will take a while for the business to recover enough to support extra staff, he is prioritising the staff that will still be with him after this (rather than getting others Jobkeeper and then letting them go anyway).
It's also reasonable to expect many companies will be worse off in 3-6 months from now, and they may no longer be able to afford the redundancy. Better to get it now.
I got one week pay for termination.
I think that's standard for someone who has been permanent for less than a year.
Is there I can do anything about this? I am thinking the reason that he provided for termination is not good enough for termination.
It's a reasonable enough reason that business will be down for the foreseeable future so he doesn't need as many employees.
You are never eligible for a JobKeeper payment. Your employer may, however, become eligible.
why would you say that? prove me.
" you will only receive the JobKeeper Payment if you are a
permanent employee of your primary employer, or if a casual employee, not a permanent employee of any
other employer. "
https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-04/JobKeepe…
Move on.
Please note that there are people who dont have any job who need this money. Better not misuse this.
Not surprised there are some selfish pricks around looking to extort this at the detriment of others.
I'm entitled to vote down stupidity, but I cant as I have been cut off for too many down votes on your entitlements in this thread. This is not fair, I have been an ozbargainer for years, I have posted deals, I MUST be entitled to more must'n I - Just saying!
OP - lifes a bitch isnt it!!
Why isn't OzBargain introducing NegKeeper?
Obviously with social distancing in place and the reliance on social media, it makes sense that negs entitlement be raised. After all, we are all in this together in this crisis situation.
yup
OP people like you are the reason people in desperate need miss out on the help they need sometimes
Pls stop being selfish
ok
i wonder if there are parttimers whose normal pay is below 1k, but now are getting 1500.
I have several staff, mainly new moms that only wants a day or two.
They'll still get the $1500.
I'm sure there are a lot of newly retired/new moms that retain minimal hours and will benefit from this.
G'day, OP! I was almost moved to tears reading your hard-luck story. In an effort to set things right, I would like to donate to your Go Fund Me campaign. How much would you like me to donate, $1000 per month?
ikr few of my friends has set up correctly but my this particular employer ruined it all.
Oh lawd, my heart can only take so much. Let's make it $2,000 per month.
Noone actually has answered me yet.
I understand all of yous frustration for trying to take advantage of all yous tax payers money.
One question to you all - Will you take the money from this guy in the street who is handing out free money? Please answer honestly.
Secondly, There is no where in ATO mentioned that i cannot get jobkeeper money from my part time job not CASUAL and still get paid from my full time job as normal. I did lose my income from part time job which was a big support. Also, I do pay more tax than you do if we are on same wage group and you work 38 hrs. only where i work part time and full time.
Instead of telling me being unethical, prove me that i am not eligible. Where in ATO does it say?
yous
Says it all really
I read that "word" and it instantly annoyed me. I hate it when people say that.
Mate. I answered your question above. If you don’t understand it then That’s enough internet for you today. Try and read it again tomorrow
Mate i am not casual. i am part time.
@Mentallysick: It's a mute point now buddy, your not part time anymore… you've been terminated as an employee (couldn't have happened to a nicer person by the sounds of it)
Great time right now for employers to be rid of the bad apples within their organisations.
Anyway no free money for you it seems. BAD LUCK
It doesn't matter if you WERE eligible. You were terminated, so you are no longer eligible for any Jobkeeper allowance.
The next question comes down to were you terminated legally, in which case you were so there is nothing more you can do to get the jobkeeper for a job you are no longer employed at.
The last question comes down to "is there anything you can do about it?" and the answer is no.
Hence all your questions are answered, and every reply you make, just makes it look like you're trying to get money for nothing and is making you look worse (particularly when you have still a full time job).
ok I will close this thread now then. Thank you all
Thanks, OP. This brightened my day quite well.
Sounds like the employer made the right choice in letting this guy go. Job Keeper payments are made once a month in arrears. The employer would have to pay you in advanced which is cash out of their pocket for 30+ days. It’s not as simple as handing you a lump sum of cash every fortnight for doing nothing courtesy of the ATO. Also the employer still has to pay super and insurance covering you.
They only pay super on the amount you actually work. So if you only work for 20 hours at $30/hr, they only pay super on that, even though you still get the $1500 a fornight.
However I believe that leave still accumulates on the period you're on the books which also means that if they let people go after the allowance finishes, they probably have more leave to pay out too.
The ATO says super is optional for the jobkeeper payment. Employers can just choose to pass on the 1500 to their employees without paying anything from their side.
Killer thread.
I now know exactly why you were terminated based on your responses! I applaud your employer from preventing you from getting the payment
It took about 3 minutes with google to find the answer to your question. Note that you fit into Scenario 3, but I have left Scenario 2 in as it is referenced in the Scenario 3 explanation. This was posted by an ATO Community Support person on the ATO Community website. It covers a few other scenarios too. Source
Scenario 2: 2 jobs – Both casual employers:
If you are a long-term casual with at least one of your employers, they will be able to claim the JobKeeper Payment for you if they are eligible too. If you receive nominations from both employers, you must choose which one you want to get the payment from. If neither employer is eligible, you won’t be eligible either.
Scenario 3: 2 jobs – Both permanent employers:
This scenario is very similar to scenario 2. You can only get the JobKeeper Payment from one of your employers. If you are an eligible employee with both employers and you receive a nomination from both, only one of them can claim it for you.
Adding to this though:
You must go with your 'primary employer' so the one you claim the tax-free threshold with.
I told you i can claim from part time.
See I told you i can claim from my part time.
I think we should have follow U.K. Way welfare80% of actual wedges or income made last few month as mortgage payment stop and you can not go anywhere entertain yourself which I presume 20% of your month income. Or monthly same amount welfare who they were getting at first place.
Now because of that stupid job seeker and job keeper who hardly working will make $750 and $550 for job keeper and job seeker, When they never did work and They were living totally fine.Now this 6months they will get money simply by making claim.
now housewife, pensioner and also lazy casual worker who was working 10hours week will able get all wlefare which they were never needed first place. Basically government throwing money away when those people never even imaging this Covid make them more wealthy then before actual situation.
Aww. I'd love to be working for actual wedges. All I got is Black & Gold french fries.
On your other points, you're looking at it wrong & you really need to do some research on social security that's not Today Tonight. The overwhelming majority of social security goes to pensioners, then middle class welfare then unemployment. The percentage of lazy people without an underlying mental health condition is staggeringly small.
The whole point of these payments increasing is for the people who get them to spend all of them, keeping the money moving & the economy ticking over. Giving the extra money to people who'd stick into savings, an investment or a mortgage would have the same effect as taking it out of the economy. Not what the country needs.
The UK's economic strategy is different. It's more like their coronavirus strategy in that they've nfi what they're doing. They're just trying to get through to next week.
Australia's strategy is the same as it was during the GFC; give money to people who'll put it all straight back into the economy and maybe it won't hurt so much when we land.
It's up to the employer to apply for it. The employer can be eligible but still not apply for it. Not much you can do if your employer lets you go. Jobkeeper is meant to encourage employers to keep their staff but the govt can't force them.
Your employer is entitled to do whatever they need to do to survive in these unprecedented times. I can assure you no business owner is making any decisions without careful consideration. It is bloody hard out there. You were only part-time so not exactly business-critical and there are a million reasons why they would have decided to cut you. Let me tell you this, not every business will be eligible for Job Keeper either. Just because they are applying is no guarantee they will get it.
From the other comments it sounds like you have access to other jobs and income so you're not exactly in dire straits. If you are in need, Job Seeker is available to you.
By asking for the JobKeeper payment (or $19,500) at your side job while working full time else you acted immorally and lost their trust.
With JobKeeper, an employer needs to pay 5x $1500 ($7500) payments before the first reimbursement. With just 10 employees, you need to find $75,000 cash (ignoring tax).
So your employer can't trust you, They don't need you. They need to borrow money to pay you and you have full time work to "fall back on". Your employer would be a moron to keep you.
Thanks for your time OP. I'm a sole trader but just started a new job mid april permanent part time - does that make me ineligible or is it assessed at time of application?
You cant be an employee of another business when you give the nomination notice to the ATO. You may be eligible if you quit and meet the other requirements, including but not limited to, proving that you were active in your business as a sole trader.
What is a "GST turnover"? How do you calculate it
Is that how much GST we collect?
There is extensive detail on the ATO website. Essentially, your Australian sales less GST.
It's your net revenue, not including GST
E.g If you charged something for $100 with GST, then your net revenue is $90.91
$100/1.1
Curious question, is the Jobkeeper meant to be used in a various ways to keep the employee?
I assume that it can either be used as:
1) Pure payment to the employee, employer won't need to take out a cent from their pocket, and the employee will continue to work, although at a very minimal wage.
2) The payment can be used to subsidise the employees pay for the business?
Is that how the initiative is meant to work?
Primarily it's supposed to keep the unemployment rate down and keep people from discovering how bad the Centrelink system is.
The employer and employee both have to be eligible, then the employer has to pay the employee a minimum of $1500 total including pay for work, pay for annual leave, long service leave, sick leave, overtime, or just a plain top up payment if the other amounts don't total $1500/fortnight. The employer gets back the $1500 from the ATO the next month after the employee has been paid, they might have to pay interest on a bank loan to bridge that gap between payment and reimbursement.
That means even if there's no work for an employee the employer can pay the employee $1500, but also the business can potentially get basically free labour for the first $1500 per employee or run down the employees leave balances (provided the employee has at least two weeks annual leave remaining after).
HI OP, Thanks for creating this post. I was wondering if you or anyone else can advice for my situation whether I am eligible for the Job Keeper.
I have my own small business set up through a trust which has no staff except for my wife and myself, no other employees. We mainly export but still have very small sales in Australia. Our reduction in sales has been significant. We do not take salaries monthly but only drawings from the business when we need it.
3 questions.
1) Are my wife and myself considered as employees and we can both receive the Jobkeeper payment ie 2 x $1500 or can we only receive 1 JobKeeper payment of $1500 through having to nominate one person as the eligible business participant.
2) If reduction in turnover is based on the GST turnover, then does our business qualify if there has been at least 30% reduction even though the local australian sales is very small, as the export sales are excluded.
3) Can you also confirm that 2019 tax return needs to have been completed in order to qualify. We have not done this as we normally do it in May.
THanks
I have a business that started earning income in Oct 2019 however hadn't completed a BAS yet. Just did them now. Rules say you needed to have already done one by in March 12th or so.
It's a legitimate business, company registered, ABN, TFN, etc. Was in the processes of doing returns, BAS and such.
Do you think they will release further guidelines and allow my business?
Are you full time or a part time employee elsewhere?
No
(also, thanks for helping!! :)
Additional guidance was actually released yesterday - Alternative test
https://www.ato.gov.au/General/JobKeeper-Payment/In-detail/A…
Circumstances where an alternative test applies:
Have a look at the link, there is some more detailed links contained within.
Thanks for the link, although they still don’t address the integrity measures below:
"it had lodged, on or before 12 March 2020, at least one of
A friend of mine just got rejected from their business - boss basically said they weren't putting staff forward for JobKeeper. It's tourism and they stood down about 60 staff due to both bushfires and coronavirus.
I believe their problem is cashflow - they either don't have or don't want to front the cash for 60 staff ($90k) per fortnight. Although they phrased it differently in their email to staff.
I guess this is a big problem for people. Business is required to front up the cash - but are unable or unwilling to get a bridging loan to cover that. Meaning lots of people are going to miss out when they would be otherwise eligible.
I drive Uber for many years until outbreak. Have abn and pay gst qtrly. Can I claim job keeper?
Yes. You should have got an email from Uber the other day explaining what things you can do with links to guides.
Government relief guide
On Monday 20 April, the Australian Government opened applications for the Jobkeeper payment, which you may be eligible for.
To help you understand some of the support that is currently available, we’ve compiled the guide below. We’ll continue to update this guide as new information becomes available.
Open the guide to learn more about the JobKeeper payment and other available schemes, including support from Airtax.
Employers are taking the piss, my wife was made redundant and they asked her to apply for jobseeker as she may have been eligible in her final week
(for which she's already received her pay). They just want a hand out.
"they just want a hand out"
Its not a hand out, its a reimbursement. If your employer doesn't pay your wife, then they don't get paid either
Simply first, employer pays first, then they get back paid by the government
I repeat they made her redundant, not stood down. She has no job full stop.
Yet they want her to fill in Centrelink paperwork so they can get a "reimbursement".
JobSeeker or JobKeeper? JobSeeker is done through Centrelink, JobKeeper through work.
JobKeeper meant to write.
I guess my point is she doesn't have a job there anymore yet they want to bank the $750 from the Gov't.
…..they can't
Yeah that's dodgy as, and I certainly wouldn't be putting my signature on that.
Did she get her redundancy payout?
@ribze1: Very cheeky.
And come tax time, the ATO will see the redundancy payout or "wage" and send either her or the business a please explain. So stupid.
Can a commercial landlord claim job keeper if they have waived months of rent?
yes
Hi there,
I'm currently employed full-time at a job which pays 2k per fortnight.
In addition to that I also work part-time in hospitality - roughly earning $150 - $200 per week before tax. My boss at this Job is asking me to do the Job Keeper. While it sounds really good to get paid $1500 a fortnight here - my only concern is how this will look to the ATO? is this legal? I've been working here prior to 1st March.
My boss' stance is that this helps the business as it covers my wage and doesn't come out of the businesses pocket.
Let me know your thoughts as I'm hesitant to do the Job Keeper as I have another job which I earn money at.
Thank you
Additionally, do I need to make the second job which wants me to start doing Job Keeper my primary job? My boss there is telling me I have to claim the Tax-Free Threshold with them and not my other job, he is asking me to reach out to them and have it switched - is this true?
This is quite the opposite of the OP we had this morning. There were comments that you can't be nominated on your 2nd job.
I believe this maybe legal and pretty smart too. There nothing on the ATO saying you can't work another employer while on stand down with another employer. It only mentions that you can't claim jobkeeper for both 2 employers.
If job2 has put you on full stand down, it's fine to work for job1 and get paid jobkeeper for job2
If it's a part time job then yes I think you can get the $1500 but if it's casual then no.
According to https://www.ato.gov.au/general/jobkeeper-payment/employees/e… :-
If you are a long-term casual and you have other permanent employment, you must choose your permanent employer – you cannot be nominated by your casual employer.
This is not spelled out super clear. Your interpretation would be: since the permanent employer does not need this, but the casual one does, you can take advantage of Jobkeeper from the casual employer as well. But ATO's interpretation would most likely be along the lines of:
After all, this latter interpretation is more in the spirit of taking care of those workers/employers who are in need.
I'm hesitant to do the Job Keeper as I have another job which I earn money at.
I think your instinct is correct. You could do it, wait for them to pick it up, which is quite easy to do since you have to report both sources. The thing is, it may mark you out, and whether this is likely to increase your chance of audits into the future is unclear.
As for switching primary/part-time job at this late stage to fit the criteria, this may be seen as manipulation to obtain a financial advantage.
ATO's definition of casual seems to include what is generally considered "part-time":-
A casual employee is likely to be employed on a regular and systematic basis with a recurring work schedule or a reasonable expectation of ongoing work.
For partnership business. For the 30% sales down figure, is March the 1st month we can use? Does it have to be March 1 to March 31st? Can we use a figure in between like March 16th to April 15th instead? Also if March and April we are not down 30% but when it comes in June we are down 30%, does that mean we can still claim the remaining 3 months of JobSeeker payment?
I believe for the basic tests you need to use the calendar month of March, the calendar month of April, or the entire April-June quarter - I don't think you can just choose an arbitrary month-long period somewhere in there.
A couple of things to note is that for the purposes of calculating eligibility for JobKeeper, you are able to use an accruals method of accounting to determine turnover in the relevant periods, rather than a cash one (i.e. you can consider incoming payments to belong to the month/period they were invoiced, rather than when they were actually paid). I don't know what line of work you're in, so there may be a negligible difference between those methods, but if you invoice in arrears for services and are struggling to demonstrate a downturn until June, then I'd suggest looking into that.
Additionally, there were recently some alternative tests that were finally outlined earlier this week that may help you - most notably an alternative test in cases where a business has irregular turnover, and an alternative test in cases where a business has undergone substantial growth since last year. I'd suggest looking into those here:
https://www.ato.gov.au/General/JobKeeper-Payment/In-detail/A…
If you can demonstrate that your business has undergone substantial growth (>50% increase in turnover in the last 12 months, >25% in the last 6, or >12.5% in the last 3), then you'd be able to use January-March 2020 as a comparison period for determining downturn, rather than using periods from 2019. Similarly, if you can demonstrate that you have variable income (your lowest quarter in the last year was <50% of your highest), then you can use an average of the last 12 months as a comparison for determining downturn.
Thank you very much for the detailed information.
In regards to the Quarter periods assessment, it needs to be April to June? Can we use March to May by any chance?
As I have calculated we are down 27% in March and 15% down in April this year compared to last year. Next month May will be down for sure again.
Another question is if we do need to use the April to June figures. Does that mean we need to Enrol in the JobKeeper first and by the time April to June quarter has ended, we will then be back paid for the April to June periods for the JobKeeper?
I believe the three potential test periods were March 2020 (single month), April 2020 (single month) or April-June 2020 (quarter) if you wanted to be eligible for the full 6 months of JobKeeper (starting March 30).
If using April-June, you would apply now and use a projection for the quarter. I think they're essentially asking you to look at what you've earned so far, what you anticipate earning and then making a good-faith declaration that you anticipate being down by 30% or more compared to that period last year. They've already said that they won't be too strict on this, it's incredibly difficult to make an accurate projection in these uncertain times. If you're eligible, you should start getting paid as soon as they turn on the money hose (sometime in May, I think) - you wouldn't have to wait until the end of the quarter.
You are able to use May 2020 as a test month, but you would only be eligible for JobKeeper payments from May onward (effectively giving you 5 months of JK instead of the full 6). Similarly, I believe you can use any month in the future, or the July-September quarter, but you'll only be paid from that point onward.
I'd definitely recommend looking into those alternative tests and seeing if any of them apply to you, as they may allow you to use a more favourable comparison period (such as last quarter, or an average of the past 12 months). I'd also recommend crunching your numbers using both a cash method and accruals method to see if one shows a more dramatic fall in turnover than the other, as you can use either in determining eligibility.
If you're in doubt about something, you could always run it by your accountant.
My wife is a sole trader (selling services, not goods), but we've been thinking about stopping trade temporarily to protect our family. Will she still be eligible for JobKeeper if she temporarily stops taking appointments?
Yes - benefit of sole trader is you can arrange your finances to meet the criteria.
That is what i wanted to do but this employer terminated me instead of putting me into jobkeeper.