Hi everyone
There seems to be a number of forums in relation to the Jobkeeper Payment. Rather than having multiple threads, ask me questions in relation to the JobKeeper Payment and I will try my best to answer otherwise hopefully somebody else can as well.
Background: I am an accountant with years of experience
Not sure if you will know, but worth a try. My partner does contract work for a number of different arts companies. The contracts usually last 2-3 months at a time. The job she had which was meant to end in mid March was cancelled as her job relies on an audience. Further, her next contract (which was accepted and signed) with the same company was due to begin at the beginning of May but was also cancelled in anticipation that it wouldn't go ahead due to COVID-19. I have read about eligibility but I can't work out whether she would be eligible under this sort of arrangement. The company has been saying they are looking into it for the last few weeks but she hasn't heard anything.
Also, she is applying and interviewing for a couple jobs. Would accepting a job from a different company preclude her from getting JobKeeper if the previous employer comes back and says it is possible? She would prefer to keep working at the company she had a job at as it is in her field and the other job she is interviewing for is only a short 2 month contract. I am concerned accepting this would make sure she can't get JobKeeper after she no longer has the new job.
Edit: I should say, the company that she lost the contracts with, she has been working contracts for them for 5 years.
You can't get JobKeeper and also be working permanently for another company. You can get JobKeeper and work casually for another company. Also with contracts you may not be eligible if you weren't considered a permanent employee, so if you were a sole trader contracting then you would have to apply through your business.
If your wife has an ABN as part of her work as a contractor (rather than a =n employee) then she may qualify for Job Seeker as a sole Trader
Riseandfall thank you for your much needed guidance. Can you please answer my question regarding my daughter's cafe job in a previous post? Would very much appreciate your advice.
thanks and i have replied!
It is a large well known busy chapel street cafe
I am stranded overseas because of countrywide lockdown and my employer had put me on forced Leave without pay( i have consumed all my entitled leave). I checked with my employer on Job keeper payment, they said they do not qualify as business for it. What are my options now ?
See if you are eligible for the Jobseeker payment by meeting the requirements. See:
https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/services/ce…
Can he still get it if overseas?
If I've only started my business 9 months ago, (I have access to prior books to prove loss in income) - do my staff still qualify?
What legal structure is your business operated under? Is it a company?
Company - Private Business - Health industry - taken over from previous employer
Yes you should provided the alternative tests are met.
The legislation for the alternative test has just being released (roughly an hour ago) and there a fair bit of details in there. I would suggest contacting your accountant because of the change in the business during the period.
My dad works at a smallish company.
They are apparently going to get the JobKeeper payment. They have also cut all staff's pay by 20%, and stated that "they might be able to occasionally (read: once a month or so) work 4 day weeks.
My gut feeling is that if they are taking the JobKeeper payment, they should be continuing to pay staff their full wages. Dad says the workload hasn't decreased.
Thoughts?
Seems perfectly legal to me. As long as your dad is receiving a minimum $1,500 a fortnight.
Ohhh, okay, so the $1500 is a floor price, not a top up to resume original wages?
I see. Once again, marketing wasn't clear haha.
The pay cut by 20% is the strange thing, why did employees agree to have pay cut but no hours cut? Especially if the workload was still there?
The JobKeeper payment is a floor in total wages including any leave paid, so it won't retrospectively reverse a pay cut that would have to be negotiated the same way the cut was.
My sister works at a franchised store which was closed but are reopening next week. She has already filled in the form for Job keeper but she doesn't want to work her shifts. Can she still refuse shifts and get the payment? She's a casual.
Edit : she's pretty confident she wont get fired because she's one of the top workers but she doesn't want to work if she's getting Jobkeepers
If employer is paying her up to $1,500 a fortnight then they can ask her to work the hours that make up the amount.
Can she refuse to do the shifts and still get payment?
This may be a legal/fairwork question.
The employer can terminate her employment if she refuses to which she will not be eligible for the payment.
Edited: Want to say, JobKeeper is not a handout. This is to help business and the fact she is refusing to work for it and has a 'sack me if you dare' attitude is completely against the whole purpose of the program.
@Westpac: Yeah. I'm not in support of her attitude at all but that's the way she is. Thanks for your answer 😊
They can only ask her to work her normal regular hours, not more to make up that amount.
she's one of the top workers
One of the top workers won't refuse to work. As a long term casual you have some protections against unfair dismissal, but refusing to work and being dismissed isn't unfair dismissal. If she is actually one of the top workers then you might be able to negotiate with a very generous boss to not do more than regular shifts if they were lower than the $1500/fn. But lots of retailers are struggling to stay profitable and in business, if they can't start making money there may be no jobs for any employees.
The reality is that the payment is a business subsidy to keep them alive, if staff refuse to work those businesses won't survive and staff won't get anything.
Note if you voluntarily leave your job you'll be up for an 8 week waiting period for JobSeeker. So refusing to work is taking quite the risk.
Your sister is one of the employees that wants to scam the system, disgraceful and unaustralian!
Did you read the first comment thread in this post?
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/8609325/redir
Everyone advised firing the employee that is trying to scam the system
I've been a casual worker at a business for over two years. I have not been given work since the start of the year, but may be starting work again soon.
Assuming the business is eligible for JobKeeper, am I eligible for any JobKeeper payments for the time prior to the future work?
Its hard to say since you have to have been working regularly and on a systematic basis for at least 12 months before March. On the face of it, it seems like you may be out of luck.
Below might be of some assistance, quotes some case precedence of what constitutes "a casual employee employed on a regular and systematic
basis", this is what you have to swear to in the nomination notice - https://www.ato.gov.au/assets/0/104/300/362/004e4999-5aee-48…
https://fairworklegaladvice.com.au/casuals-what-does-regular…
Good find, especially the fair work link.
If your employer wants to give you shifts, it's in their best interests to nominate you for JobKeeper - basically, they're getting free wages for the next 6 months for your labour.
The gap in hours in 2020 might work against you BUT it comes back to the employer's decision to nominate you; if you explain the pro's of nominating yourself to them, you have a good chance of being added.
Thanks for doing this OP,
I'm self employed and went overseas for almost a year. I left in April last year and came back last month due to COVID-19.
Will I still be eligible for the Job Keeper? I have no income in Australia from April 2019 until March 2020. However, I worked in Ireland from October until I got back.
I'm now back working at limited capacity. So, I'm earning money this month - compared to April last year when I had no income as I left the country. Will that affect me from getting Job Keepers as I'm earning an income this month and will technically not qualify for the 30% loss of income for the same month last year? (Hopefully this makes sense)
Also, if I do qualify and receive payment. Can I still work as self employed?
Thank you.
No as you will need to have been actively involved in the business before March.
I'm a father, also a sole trader, and took time off work in January 2020 to take care of my child (Born in November 19).
I'm eligible for both Partner Pay and Job Keeper Payment, obviously not at the same time.
I never claimed my Partner Pay, can I retrospectively apply for it for January 2020, and also receive Job Keeper, or have I missed the boat?
Edit: I'm not sure if I can retrospectively apply for Partner Pay, and nominate the period of time I took off, before Job Keeper Started to receive both.
I am not aware of the details regarding Partner Pay.
is it the Dad and Partner Pay?
Did you take at least 2 weeks unpaid leave in January 2020?
You can lodge a claim for Dad and Partner Pay up to three months before or within 12 months after your child's birth or adoption. It can be taken any time in the first year after birth or adoption.
yeah it is the dad/partner pay.
I did take unpaid leave, in January, I never put the claim in. I never had an urgency as being self employed I can claim I am not working at any time in the 12 months from birth. Originally I was planning on taking time off next financial year and claiming it then. However seeing as I will probably earn less than I proejcted this financial year it makes sense to get what ever I am entitled to help keep my business afloat.
The ATO says you can't have both partner leave and job keeper. However, I am not technically claiming for the same period of time. From what I understand on Centrelink's website is that I can retrospectively claim it, I will confirm with my accountant if it will affect job keeper.
yes i think you are correct. you should be able to claim for both payments.
The business owner of my friend doesn't want to go ahead with Job Keeper program because the government wanted the business to pay it and then back-paid to the business by ATO and seems that the Job keeper payment does not benefit the business directly. In other words, she don't really care about her employee's benefit. Not sure if she can apply Job Keeper program and then keep the money herselves secretly
Because the whole thing is designed to keep unemployment rate down, not actually help the business stay afloat.
It benefits businesses if they actually have useful work for their employees to do, or if they expect to have useful work or their employees to do while the program is active as it subsidises wages.
Obviously if the business is completely closed and unlikely to reopen in the next 6 months then they're right, there's no reason to apply for JobKeeper if your wages bill is already $0.
You can't apply for JobKeeper for employees 'secretly' the ATO refunds based on what the single touch payroll tells them they have paid the employee, they can only get it by paying the employee or committing fraud that will come to light immediately when the employee goes to fill out their tax return. It also needs the employee to provide consent as it may affect their other benefits (eg JobSeeker / disability pensions etc).
excellent explanation
It's absolutely in the interest of the employer - they basically get 6 months of free labour!
The only downfall is one month's worth of cash outlay to cover (extra) wages, but apart from that it's efinitely a win/win situation
Your friend, whos an employee to a business, cannot apply for Jobkeeper. Only businesses can apply for Jobkeeper.
The employer pays your friend $1500, then the government backpays the employer. The government does not pay your friend $1500 directly
Thanks for doing this OP. I work full time in retail and I've had to go on unpaid leave as I'm immunocompromised. Would I be eligible for jobkeeper payments or do I not get them as I haven't been stood down?
Technically I can't find anything that says unpaid leave excludes you if your employer is eligible. Any paid leave is able to be included in the amount the business pays you though. The only reference I can find to being unavailable to work excluding you is if you were also being paid workers comp.
I don't think businesses have to allow you to take unpaid leave due to being immunocompromised though, and you do have to nominate….. Might be worth discussing with your boss.
Thank you. I'll chase it up with them.
Do you have to pay your employees fortnightly $1500 or $750 weekly before tax.
It's a before tax amount, so $1300 ish after tax.
Either fortnightly or weekly is acceptable.
This article is a prime example of the shit storm the govt. Has created;
https://amp.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/jobkeeper-austr…
25 hours of work for $750. Thats $30/hour.
The girl doesn't wanna work 25hrs though. Say she only worked 1 day a week, she wants to continue on 1 day a week but get $750. It's kind of putting the employer in a shitty situation where the employee can turn down shifts because of guaranteed income.
I don't understand how a business that has lost at least 30% of it's income and has a staff member that was only required to work one day per week, suddenly needs that worker to do 25 hours a week.
@Cheapskate Paul: Likely due to losing other employees who worked nearly full time that weren’t eligible….
@Cheapskate Paul: That's the problem, they probably don't need that staff member at all, which means the employer probably won't bother applying for jobkeeper. So the result is the same.
Or like the above ^
It's kind of stuffed at both ends, employers are pressuring staff to work more hours and staff are realising that if they call in sick for most of their shifts it doesn't' affect their pay…..
Both are obvious outcomes of how the legislation is written. I can sympathise with both the employees and employers.
Yup, or also not accept shifts if a casual.
No incentive for the business the keep them as an employee if that's the case, the business is using up their cashflow and time to pay them. No point if they don't get anything in return.
@tryagain: Scomo has said that decision is not up to the employer once they are on jobkeeper. It must apply to all staff.
@crashloaded: Yes, but a casual can easily be let go, and being a casual, no notice and no redundancy is needed. So as I said, no point for the business using up precious cashflow and their time processing their payments.
@tryagain: You are correct but only if the casual employee was let go prior to 1 March. As per the ATO website;
"If you decide to participate in the JobKeeper Payment scheme, you must nominate all your eligible employees. You cannot choose to nominate only some employees."
My understanding is that once you nominate an employee, they cannot be made redundant, regardless of employment type.
but only if the casual employee was let go prior to 1 March. As per the ATO website;
I think you are reading to much into that statement, an eligible employee can be made no longer an employee, therefore, although they may still meet the eligibility requirements they no longer meet the employee requirement.
@crashloaded: The JobKeeper is about keeping people in jobs, if people refuse to work then they aren't doing their bit about keeping in the job. The idea is that it benefits employee's who can get work when they ordinarily might have been laid off, and the business who have had a downturn by giving them access to free/subsidised labour. It's not just for individuals, otherwise, they would have just used JobSeeker.
@tryagain: I understand your point, I just don't think it will work, there seems to be more cons than pros for the employer to apply for it.
@crashloaded: If they have no work they can do, then apart from the ability to pay it to themselves, and goodwill with their staff there is no benefit. But for somewhere like a cafe, they can still possibly trade as a takeaway, and although there will likely be a substantial loss in trade, the benefit of free(ish) labour is hopefully enough for them to keep afloat.
@Riseandfall thank you for taking the time to answer all these questions :)
My work has dried up by over 30% and I was wondering if from your point of view I am eligible for JobKeeper payments as a Soletrader?
To complicate matters, I am a sole director of a Pty Ltd. (no employees but I engage contractors from time to time) and all income are from overseas clients (I conduct online tutoring). However, I have always used my Soletrader ABN to invoice my Pty Ltd. for my work. At present my Soletrader invoices are strongly reduced due to the reduction in work.
In your opinion, am I eligible for JobKeeper payments given that money from overseas should not be included in the turnover calculation but technically as I am invoicing another Australian based company it is not an overseas payment?
I would think your soletrader ABN would be eligible; but the Pty Ltd would not.
Someone working a part-time one day and on abn one day but have lost another part-time job of 2.5 days. Would they be eligible for the job seeker from that one employer where they have lost 2.5 days?
Maybe, if the employer is eligible and chooses to nominate them.
If that is their “primary employer”. The ATO will audit in the future to determine this.
Does anyone know if there is any government incentive to put on a new employee?
Nothing at the moment, they want to keep existing employees employed
There is an Apprentice and Trainees incentive for busineses.
Eligible employers can apply for a wage subsidy of 50 per cent of an apprentice’s or trainee’s wage for up to 9 months from 1 January 2020 to 30 September 2020.
What's the definition of trainee?
@MrHyde: Ah thanks so I guess I can't hire any random person, call them a trainee and get half their wages paid :-p
Hi MrHyde,
Can the employer claim for both Apprentice and Trainees incentive for business as well for JobKeeper ?
I would think so. I'm not an accountant; so not the right person to ask. I've only looked deeply into JobKeeper as that is what our business is eligible for.
I am a director of a corporation which satisfies the eligibility requirements. I would like to apply for job keeper as " eligible business participant" on the ATO site I satisfy all the requirement specified on their website but however when I look at the form for this [1] it has the clause " If you are employed by another employer (other than as a casual), you cannot receive JobKeeper payments through a business". This clauses implies I'm not eligible even though my business is. I'm trying to track down where this requirement came from as I can't find it in the legislation or any of the ATO Web pages. Can't find any information other than on the You got any idea?
[1] https://www.ato.gov.au/assets/0/104/300/362/5f4639ad-8475-4d…
If you're an EMPLOYEE of you're own business then you're fine.
That clause refers to employees with multiple jobs - they MUST be nominated by only the employer that considers them part- or full-time if they also have a casual job.
I've got one lady working casual at our bakery and part-time at an aged care hostel. The hostel would be the one she'd normally get nominated for JobKepper for, however as they've not qualified because their business hasn't been affected then the employee then becomes eligible to be nominated by the bakery.
As I said I'm not applying as an employee but as an eligible business participant a carve out explicitly designed for people in similar positions to me where I derive the majority of my income from a business while not being an employee of that entity. https://www.ato.gov.au/General/JobKeeper-Payment/Sole-trader…
However now looking at that page again it appears they have updated the page to now include that clause since I last looked so it's looking less likely I'm eligible. I wouldn't mind knowing more about where these rule changes are defined.
It doesn't look like your bakery can nominate them even if their permanent job hasn't been affected:
Your employee is eligible under the JobKeeper Payment scheme if they:
were either
* permanent full-time or part-time employee at 1 March 2020
* long-term casual employee (employed on a regular and systematic basis for at least 12 months) as at 1 March 2020 and not a permanent employee of any other employer
https://business.gov.au/Risk-management/Emergency-management…
Hmmm, that clause didn’t seem to read the same on the ATO’s website.
As far as I know, my employee may or may not be working anywhere else - either fulltime or part time - but as far as I’m concerned, she’s met our criteria within our business to be nominated, and thus we have done so.
If the employee then is aware she is working permanently elsewhere, then she’d have the onus to declare this on the nomination form and tick ‘No’ when signing and returning.
I’ll go back and double check with her, but it would indeed seem she’s not eligible, which is a downer…
@Switchblade88: Read the form. She can't sign the declaration, it is as clear as day. Sorry :(
https://www.ato.gov.au/assets/0/104/300/362/004e4999-5aee-48…
but as far as I’m concerned, she’s met our criteria within our business to be nominated, and thus we have done so.
The good news is, if an employer in good faith nominated an employee who should not be eligible, the employer does not automatically get in trouble.
In this Fact Sheet JobKeeper Payment — Protecting Integrity:
It would not always be fair for the Commissioner to recover inappropriately obtained payment from
employers, who may have acted honestly and have passed on the benefit of the payment.To address these cases, the Tax Commissioner may make an entity that has made a false statement or
engaged in fraud liable to repay the amount. This liability applies on top of the existing significant criminal
or administrative penalties for false statements and fraud. JobKeeper Payment obtained by fraud or
misstatement will be recovered from wrongdoers even where the payment has passed through entities not
involved in the fraud.
But of course, if you have doubts now, best to get it right from the start.
You can nominate one director or a shareholder of a company to receive the payment. If you meet the other requirements, including if you aren’t an employee of another company, you should be eligible.
Change of employer, new place pushes commencement date by 2 months. Whats the eligibility for jobseeker program? previous and new employment are full time positions and have letter from new hr for date adjustment.
Were you an employee of the company on March 1? Normally you're an employee from your first day of paid work.
New place? No. The commencement date was pushed for 2 months before starting work at new place.
I think you might be SOL.
So to be eligible to get jobkeeper as a casual, you need to be with the company for 12 months.
Now, my issue is technically been working with the company for 15 months.
However, I started as an agency from Jan 2019 to May 2019. The company then hired me directly from May onwards until the day I got laid off on 22nd March 2020.
Would I still be eligible? Or am I 2 months too short?
I got laid off on 22nd March 2020.
You no longer work for them? Then no. Have you applied for the jobseeker payments?
No. I read the guidelines and it says you can still receive it if you have been stood down
There's a difference between "stood down" and "laid off" .
if there's no chance of you being re-hired — if your employer can't reopen their business after the lockdown restrictions — then you'll need to apply for the JobSeeker payment.
This will also be the case if your company doesn't sign up for the scheme.
@[Deactivated]: Ok sorry. Thanks for the clarification. Ok so let’s say if I was stood down instead and then regarding my previous issue, would I still be eligible?
@ireadtermsofuse: If you have been stood down after March 1, you are eligible for the JobKeeper payments. Your company will need to sign up for the wage subsidy scheme in order for you to receive them.
Have they signed up for it? If they have they will send you a form to complete.
JobKeeper is a payment made to businesses so you need to be employed by them still to get it.
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