How to Fight Karens?

Ghosteye on 17/05/2020 - 18:14

Hey guys,

Thought I'd never see this day come, but it is now here and I need help because I'm at a loss for what to do. So here's a little background to bolster your understanding.

I was casually talking to my mother earlier and we spoke about her workplace and how there was an anti-vaxxer there. She talked about how this anti-vaxxer was loud,obnoxious and trying to convince everyone in her workplace to not take vaccines.

My mother is your typical boomer (40-60 years old), very little knowledge about science and whatnot, and her workplace is of a similar ilk. She talk about how there was this anti-vaxxer that had started to convince other boomers in her workplace to not take vaccines, by showing them internet websites and youtube videos. She forwarded a picture of a list to my mother, listing all the ingredients in the vaccine, and because of their scientific nature. e.g 1-2 hydroxychloride, di-hydrogen monoxide etc etc (forgive my high school chem skills) she said it did initially scare her, and many others at her workplace.

I managed to convince my mother that vaccines were indeed good, and that herd-immunity was important. But this debunking took quite a bit of time. I had to try and link real life examples that she sees in everyday life, and try to link those experiences to positively reinforce the fact that vaccines were indeed good, and that some side effects that could be seen in some people were not related to the vaccine being bad.

It seems pretty scary how anti-vaxxers can sway opinions so quickly, but scientific proofs take time to explain and relate.

But it was pretty alarming at how the workplace at where she works at (they deal with children on a daily basis) has not fired her for her beliefs as they are putting other kids in danger. In addition to that, I was disheartened to hear that some of them were fearful enough that they skipped on their flu shots this year. Purely because of this anti-vaxxer and the coronavirus scare.

I would like to hear about your experiences if any, and how you managed to convince others that vaccines were in fact, good. Perhaps I could learn to teach others more effectively too.

Health & Beauty

Comments

      • harveyworld on 18/05/2020 - 10:48
        +8

        Anyone born 2020 onwards must be coronials??

        I'll get my coat…

        • [Deactivated] on 18/05/2020 - 11:10

          What about those from 2015-2019? The new silent generation? My youngest was born during that time period and he's the loudest of them all :(

        • pegaxs on 18/05/2020 - 14:20

          *Bah_dum_tish.mp3*

      • SupeNintendoChalmers on 18/05/2020 - 15:24

        I prefer Oregan Trail Generation myself

        Even Apple IIe Generation is ok

    • stumo on 18/05/2020 - 13:26

      I will concede that early genX are basically boomers by nature. But OP you were out by over a decade on genX. Currently I would classify 50yo+ to be of the "boomer" mindset/cohort that ruined everything.

      40-49yo genXers are just as screwed over by them as the rest of us.

    • striker5950 on 18/05/2020 - 23:54

      sounds like something a boomer would say

  • cynicalmike on 17/05/2020 - 19:13
    +5

    thread title: How to Fight Karens?

    there was a deal on $5 boxing gloves not long ago…

    • Erratum on 17/05/2020 - 19:51
      +2

      Any deals on cricket bats?

  • screensaver on 17/05/2020 - 19:20
    +3

    no jab no pay, one of the govts fight tactics

  • Ughhh on 17/05/2020 - 19:33
    +3

    Perhaps I could learn to teach others more effectively too.

    One of the problems is, as you highlighted, that anything that is hard to pronounce for a layman and sounds chemical = dangerous!!!!

    When they read or hear "di-hydrogen monoxide", they only recognise the "monoxide" part, therefore the whole thing is bad to their knowledge. It's not surprising for people to fear or question what they don't understand, people should be sceptical. But, this fear is exacerbated by people not willing to do their own research (maybe due to the paper being hard to read and understand), thus relying on other more vocal people (like predators) to feed them information they can make sense of.

  • Donaldhump on 17/05/2020 - 19:44
    +9

    Wtf is a Karen? Other than a tribe in Burma

    • Ghosteye on 17/05/2020 - 19:48
      +5

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_(slang) :)

      • Donaldhump on 17/05/2020 - 19:53
        +6

        Nice, I’m gonna drop that at work tomorrow

        • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2020 - 21:48
          +1

          You're a bit late to the party:

          The term also saw heightened scrutiny in April 2020, with considerable debate over whether the term constitutes a slur: a Twitter account named "Friends of Journalism" asserted the term to be "an equivalent of the n-word for white women" (…)a columnist for The Guardian, Hadley Freeman, replied saying that it was "sexist, ageist, and classist, in that order".

          • Donaldhump on 17/05/2020 - 22:08
            +5

            @[Deactivated]: ive never heard it once, couldnt be that popular to be honest. maybe in the USA.

            i just prefer the term gronk

            • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2020 - 22:31

              @Donaldhump:

              ive never heard it once, couldnt be that popular to be honest

              Karens on ozb It is:)

      • cynicalmike on 17/05/2020 - 20:06

        tbh i was more interested in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_people

        and to see if that's where the haircut originated from

    • Beaches on 18/05/2020 - 09:08
      +7

      Yeah "Karen" does not equal an antivaxxer.

    • Hamlet on 18/05/2020 - 15:00
      +1

      As someone who enjoys travelling around Southeast Asia, I thought of the marginalised ethnic group in Myarnmar too!

  • iratepirate on 17/05/2020 - 19:51
    +14

    The only way to deal with nuts is to out nut them. Keep upping the anti until they think you are as absurd as you started out thinking they were. I mean go overboard, until they think you are nuttier than a squirrel's turd.

    If they call you on it tell them what you were doing, and explain that opinions are great but they must be based in fact. If they don't call you on it then they ain't worth saving - they do not have the ability to think critically.

    E.G. Flat Earthers - Oh no the earth isn't flat it actually has negative dimensions…
    Anti-vaxers - Oh no it doesn't cause cancer, they're trying to insert alien DNA into you…

    Let your story get wilder and wilder until they think you are a fool and then explain that's how you feel when they spout their unfounded B.S.

    • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2020 - 22:35
      +5

      The only way to deal with nuts is to out nut them

      For some reason, I thought "out nut them" meant produce more offsprings than them. That could work too.

      • Kangal on 17/05/2020 - 22:43
        +3

        The classic is the Moon Landing Conspiracy people.
        Just agree that event never happened…
        …wait, You Believe there's a MoOn?!?

        • Speckled Jim on 18/05/2020 - 09:21

          How many moons, according to QI, at last count? I stopped listening when they said 7.
          They updated with twenty-something.

          Can't see it? That's not a moon…

          • [Deactivated] on 18/05/2020 - 11:23

            @Speckled Jim: A 'moon', by definition, is any celestial body that makes an orbit around a planet. There's the moon, aka the Big cheese in the sky, and then there's mini-moons, which are asteroids that are temporarily captured in Earth's gravity. So QI is not wrong.

            The Moon’s neat orbit comes from the fact that it’s tightly held by Earth’s gravity. Minimoons are literally tugged from many sides by the Earth, moon and sun, resulting in complicated – and temporary – orbits. They usually remain captured by Earth until a particularly strong tug by the sun or moon breaks the pull of Earth’s gravity. At that point, the sun once again takes control of the former minimoon, which goes back to being an asteroid. While the typical minimoon orbits Earth for about nine months, some of them could orbit our planet for decades, which is why the number of moons mentioned on QI keeps changing.

            P.s: They were wrong about 3753 Cruithne though. Cruithn which, by the way, was first discovered by an astronomer using one of the telescopes at the Siding Spring Observatory, in NSW, Australia 😀, is not a moon or even a mini-moon. It is not orbiting Earth but rather co-orbiting the sun with Earth. These are called quasi-satellites.

      • iratepirate on 18/05/2020 - 00:24

        Idiocracy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwZ0ZUy7P3E

        • [Deactivated] on 18/05/2020 - 00:44
          +1

          I have 4 kids and they're all as bright as their mother. I've done my bit for humanity:)

    • trapper on 18/05/2020 - 01:20

      You know this is probably how half these crackpot theories actually started haha

  • Donaldhump on 17/05/2020 - 19:55
    +1

    I’d just tell them their conversation is boring the f*** out me and to stop bringing up it at work. Go preach somewhere else

  • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2020 - 20:07
    +1

    Depends on which vaccine.

    If they are talking about vaccines that work so they don't spread diseases such as measles, then take it up with management.

    If it is a vaccination that predominantly affects the individual, ie flu vacs, then let make sure these bozos feel horrible when they make everyone else pick up their slack when they take a sicky for the flu.

  • afoveht on 17/05/2020 - 20:27

    Google "megabelief" for some insight into why people won't let go of their positions even though they can be proved incorrect on many counts. It makes you realise that, most often, only a long and gradual deconstruction can change people.

    • ozhunter on 17/05/2020 - 21:06
      +2

      Google "megabelief" for some insight

      Nothing relevant came up lol. Are you referring to religion? You could just say that.

      • afoveht on 17/05/2020 - 22:03

        A megabelief can pertain to anything. Yes, most religions are megabeliefs and the word is often used by atheists (even though they themselves can succumb to megabeliefs themselves).

        But yes you are right. I do not use Google, rather duckduckgo, but I say "Google" just to keep most familiar parlance. I just googled and the results were disappointing; the results with a duckduckgo search are very different.

      • [Deactivated] on 18/05/2020 - 13:32
        +1

        Nothing relevant came up lol

        That's because "megabelief" is not a word or even a phrase. It's just a term someone made-up to mean whatever they want it to mean.🙄

        • BartholemewH on 18/05/2020 - 14:27
          +1

          I use the modern word 'belief' in place of the root 'megabelief'.

    • acoma on 18/05/2020 - 10:03
      +1

      Like religion.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2020 - 20:31
    +5

    I would like to hear about (…) how you managed to convince others that vaccines were in fact, good.

    I don't . I may have 99 problems but

    • smallpox,
    • polio,
    • diphtheria,
    • pertussis,
    • tetanus,
    • measles,
    • mumps,
    • rubella,
    • H. influenzae,
    • varicella
    • hepatitis
    • and the Karens in the world ain’t one.
  • AirbusA389 on 17/05/2020 - 20:44

    di-hydrogen monoxide = H2O = water

    of course water is dangerous. there's so many drowning incidents every year.

    1-2 hydroxychloride? HOClOH? the chemical structure doesn't make sense

    can you bring that preacher to me please? i have a million-dollar research going on, i need volunteers. i'll infect her with Covid-19, and inject her with bleach. i promise i will bill my private, unlicensed services at $1000 per hour and $1000 per ml of bleach injected to the preacher.

    canthaveenoughtrolling

    • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2020 - 22:21

      1-2 hydroxychloride?

      He must mean A.Hydroxychloride aka Aluminium chlorohydrate , which is used in vaccines as well as in antiperspirants and nappy rash ointments.

      OP, for the majority of us, the aluminium that gets into our bodies does so through ingestion and it is just passing through. Studies have shown that more than 95% of it is removed by the kidneys into the urine and another 2% leaves via bile entering the gut from the gall bladder and is excreted as stool.

      Aluminium is used as an adjuvant in vaccines. An adjuvant lets us use less of the viral or bacterial pieces in the vaccine while still getting our body to produce the long-lasting immune response we want, using what’s left. Aluminium adjuvants – and there are a few types that act a bit differently – help trigger a better immune response. This effect was discovered in 1926..

      The authors from those studies above have noted that some of the aluminium from vaccines is likely to be excreted right away, while the remainder will be retained in the muscle. This is really important because the anti-vaccination message wants us to believe that all of this aluminium will be instantly released and travel straight to the brain. Not only is that misleading, but it is also clear that we have aluminium in our blood from daily dietary and environmental exposures that start from birth and perhaps even earlier.

      A report from 2018 looked at blood and hair levels of aluminium in 9 to 13-month-old children who did not have kidney disease. Blood and hair aluminium levels varied among the 85 children but that variation was not related to their vaccination history. There were no links between blood alu levels and infant development nor between hair alu levels and infant language or cognitive development.

    • Boostland on 18/05/2020 - 06:28

      Dhmo is very dangerous and too much or too little of it can kill any living organism
      http://dhmo.org/

    • Banana on 18/05/2020 - 10:05

      H2O is very dangerous because everyone dies (eventually) after ingesting it! !!!

      Also, may I talk to you about this cancer-inducing chemical called Dioxygen…

  • ozhunter on 17/05/2020 - 21:05
    -4

    How to Fight Karens?

    With another Karen…

    I don't really have any issues with others who refuse to get vaccinated.

    I have no idea what vaccinations I've received, only the couple times at school and a couple a few years back before going overseas.

    If they announced a coronavirus vaccine is available tomorrow, I probably wouldn't get it.

    • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2020 - 22:40

      They'll give it to the elderly and immuno-compromised first anyway.

      • ozhunter on 17/05/2020 - 23:59
        +1

        I'd hope so considering out of the 98 people that have died in Australia, only 3 of them were under 60 years old.

        But yea, I was meaning if I had the option to take it or not.

        • [Deactivated] on 18/05/2020 - 00:08

          What if it was a condition of your employment? No jab, no pay?

          • ozhunter on 18/05/2020 - 14:41

            @[Deactivated]: Well then I'd guess I take it, but not without making a fuss about it, and sounds like there'd be a few others who'd do the same.

            Though at that point, I just don't see why they wouldn't just pin us down and forcefully inject us and microchip us while they're at it, for our health of course.

        • Domingo on 18/05/2020 - 08:22
          +4

          One thing we don't yet know is what the long term impacts of COVID-19 are.

          The infection essentially strips away the protective layer in your lungs by causing your immune system to attack it, which makes you susceptible to secondary infections.

          No one yet knows what that means for those who recover 1, 5, 10, 20+ years down the track. Does the lining recover to be as good as it used to it over time will people who have recovered end up being more susceptible to other illnesses?

          It's not just about whether or not it kills you directly (and we're lucky that our death rate here has been so low, economic impacts notwithstanding) but what happens afterwards too, which we likely won't know for a long time.

          I used to think I'd rather just get it and get it over with, but given we don't know the long term impacts and don't even fully know if catching it does make you immune, I'm planning to keep practising hygiene measures and if an approved vaccine comes out, will likely sign up for it.

    • AlanHB on 18/05/2020 - 07:38
      +2

      I think it depends which vaccinations you're talking about. There's a big difference between the foundation ones you get as a baby/in your childhood versus the yearly flu jab that adults get each year.

  • FW190 on 17/05/2020 - 22:11
    +6

    while I don't have any Karens in my workplace, but there is a vegan and a keto fanatic there.

    usually, we just sit back and watch them duke it out.

    so maybe it is time for you guys to hire a vegan as well :)

    • Loopenip on 17/05/2020 - 23:41
      +1

      There's always a bigger fish

    • Cletus vandamme on 18/05/2020 - 18:25
      -2

      Keto is a legitimate diet for weightloss though. Vegans are just idiots who have to preach.

  • TheBird on 18/05/2020 - 01:28
    +4

    Don't bother. Just putting this quote out there for perspective:

    Arguing with Idiots Is Like Playing Chess with a Pigeon… No Matter How Good You Are, the Bird Is Going to Shit on the Board and Strut Around Like It Won.

  • p1 ama on 18/05/2020 - 05:48
    +10

    One of my friends is a doctor. She told me this story about how a consultant on her ward masterfully convinced a Karen to get vaccinated.

    The patient said to the consultant "I don't want to get vaccinated…", and proceeds to give reasons why including made-up risks and faux-evidence, citing that it was a Chinese hoax to kill us all. The consultant responds, "I've seen those articles too, but I think you've got it all wrong. The Chinese government are actually trying to dissuade us from vaccination, they're vaccinating all of the elite children there".

    Patient thought about it for a while and agrees to get vaccinated for the flu.

    • ozbjunkie on 18/05/2020 - 17:10
      +1

      Reminds me of a conversation with an old boss.

      Something something evolution.

      I don't believe in evolution.

      Why's that?

      Because it means God doesn't exist.

      What if evolution was created by God as his process to help his creations adjust to the world over time?

      Oh. Well then I do believe in evolution.

      Wtf

  • screensaver on 18/05/2020 - 06:36
    +1

    My cousin was born deaf because her mother got German Measles during pregnancy.

    • Ghosteye on 18/05/2020 - 11:55

      Thats horrible, sorry to hear about that.

  • Seraphin7 on 18/05/2020 - 09:15
    +2

    My mother is your typical boomer (40-60 years old), very little knowledge about science and whatnot

    You've not exactly picked up much of the "boomer" cohort in that description.

  • whooah1979 on 18/05/2020 - 09:24

    I’ve taken about every common vaccine required to attend school or to go on overseas trip to exotic destinations. What I haven’t taken is flu shots of any kind and won’t be queuing up for the covid vaccine.

    • SupeNintendoChalmers on 18/05/2020 - 15:33

      Dont leave us hanging, what is your rationale behind not taking it? Not judging, just curious.

      • whooah1979 on 18/05/2020 - 15:49
        -4

        For the same reasons that I don't take flu shots. I've for as long as I can remember never been sick enough to take a day of work. A heartburn or headache here and there, but nothing that lasts more than a few hours.

        "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

        • ssquid on 18/05/2020 - 18:01

          Would you always wear a seatbelt if you've never had an accident?

  • Speckled Jim on 18/05/2020 - 09:27

    A while back, the main concern was Mercury but that link explains the relative safety of the type used for vaccine preservatives.

    The only real valid concern is that of adverse immune response, which is very rare, treatable and almost never fatal.

  • Bid Sniper on 18/05/2020 - 09:33
    +3

    Just tell them their internet router and phone you helped setup has 5G. Karen will burn it to the ground and surround herself with healing crystals, leaving you alone and taking out their social media that feed them this garbage.

    • SupeNintendoChalmers on 18/05/2020 - 15:34
      +1

      Do those heating crystals have 4xEssential oils, otherwise THEY ARE USELESS!!

    • cktftw on 18/05/2020 - 10:38

      Go read up on herd immunity. And the flu can kill someone otherwise 'healthy' with no apparent health issues.

      • whooah1979 on 18/05/2020 - 12:02

        3000 deaths are a plenty low risk.
        http://www.isg.org.au/index.php/clinical-information/influen…

        • cktftw on 18/05/2020 - 12:26

          That is with the strong vaccination program we have here in Australia. Not dying doesnt mean not ending up in hospital or even ICU. It's also a testament of the strong medical system we have here.
          Have a look at the burden of disease here in Aus and also in US
          https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-e…

          • whooah1979 on 18/05/2020 - 12:38

            @cktftw: 58% of people are choosing not to inject poison into their bodies.

            • philmccracken on 18/05/2020 - 12:55

              @whooah1979: I wonder how many of those people have ever chosen to ingest alcohol into their bodies.

              • whooah1979 on 18/05/2020 - 12:59
                -1

                @philmccracken: Drinking poison is a choice. We should respect their choice to drink and other people's choice to not get vaccinated.

                • gromit on 18/05/2020 - 22:53

                  @whooah1979: We should also respect peoples choice not to have unvaccinated people risking our society. I would suggest we put them all somewhere like manus island, but that really isn't fair to the locals there

    • FireRunner on 18/05/2020 - 13:19
      +1

      My opinion is that anyone should be allowed to have the flu vaccine but nobody should be forced, pressured or snubbed for refusing to take it. It’s not like it’s guaranteed to work and a few people refusing to to take it won’t make much of a difference

    • whooah1979 on 18/05/2020 - 09:48

      This reminds me of our old neighbour. They have a pest control business where they dilute the poison just enough to kill the pests for X amount of weeks. This allows them to rinse and repeat 2, 3 or even 4 times a year.

      • 91rs on 18/05/2020 - 11:23
        +1

        So the bugs come back to life? they were only faking it for a while then? Sneaky buggers, I bet he goes and releases his trained pests and then leaves cards in their mailbox too!

        • whooah1979 on 18/05/2020 - 11:58

          Annual or quarterly visits to maximize profits.

    • cktftw on 18/05/2020 - 10:38
      +2

      You clearly have no idea why the flu vaccine is an annual one. Go read up and stop spreading dangerous misinformation.

    • superdarkhumour on 18/05/2020 - 13:51

      The negs are from the non-essentials who are jobless! haha! That is, yoga teachers, personal trainers, dog walkers, etc. haha! Got get a real job!

  • leiiv on 18/05/2020 - 09:39

    The reason why conspiration theories have a foot to stand at all is that most of the processes in all parts of the system are inaccessible to the eyes of general public for various reasons: national security, trade secret, knowledge barrier, etc. From the manufacturing, research, up to the watchdog (FDA etc), all decision making processes are susceptible to systemic corruption because only few elites are in control.

  • whooah1979 on 18/05/2020 - 09:43

    Trap is good for 10 years while FluQuadri is ineffective after a few weeks. The latter is basically a money printing machine.

  • lolz112 on 18/05/2020 - 10:24

    I reckon this is a pretty good argument for the ingredients list.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/insanepeoplefacebook/comments/dyafz…

  • Caped Baldy on 18/05/2020 - 10:33
    +2

    I'm not going to vaccinate my kids, I'll have the doctors do it.

    Dihydrogen monoxide is a pretty harmful product. It actually has a 100% mortality rate and is used in many solvents and cleaning products.
    https://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

    PS: it's water

    It wouldn't be a bad idea to distract the anti vaxxer with this.

  • OzzyOzbourne on 18/05/2020 - 10:34
    +4

    With the head of Medusa…. Oh sorry, thought it said "how to fight Krakens" 😜

  • WT on 18/05/2020 - 10:41
    +1

    your mum is pretty much past the age of having kids, if she chooses to anti vax herself, well shes an adult

  • MynyMouqe on 18/05/2020 - 11:01

    With something like this, I'd be actively getting HR involved… this is something that has a real impact on peoples (and customers/clients!) wellbeing.

  • Charlie Sierra on 18/05/2020 - 11:11
    +6

    Demand to speak to her manager?

  • 91rs on 18/05/2020 - 11:30

    Unless your mum feels strongly about it, and strongly enough to bother putting forward a complaint about this person's actions and the risk(s) it then presents to other staff and possibly to the children (oh won't somebody think of the .. ) which then possibly goes against some sort of no jab no play policy which parents have to abide by AND wants to deal with the fallout of it in the workplace and how people might see her, Karens and Boomer Karen's - if she's over 57 usually back down at this stage when they're made out to be the bad guy.
    Otherwise see if this Karen you have it out for has any fb or ig posts which are directly linked to her which spread this kinda thing and make an anonymous email complaint to the business saying that as a parent and no jab no play and science and things, that this dangerous view isn't something that should be allowed in a facility which deals with young(?) children.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 18/05/2020 - 11:46

    I accept anti-vaxxers right to opinion rightly or wrongly, just like me, you, have our own views which to others may be right or wrong. If someone doesn't like a message, feel free to politely say no thanks and walk away.

    • gromit on 19/05/2020 - 09:45
      +2

      I accept others right to an opinion. I don't accept others have a right to endanger the lives of others because of those opinions.

      • ozhunter on 19/05/2020 - 10:53

        You would take the vaccine though, so you're safe…

        • gromit on 19/05/2020 - 11:17
          +2

          my sister isn't safe as she is immune compromised. Children under the age of 1 aren't safe as they can't generally be vaccinated. Unlike selfish anti vaxxers I believe we have a social responsibility to protect the community as a whole, not just look out for ourselves. personally given anti vaxxers believe in looking out only for themselves I think we should grant them their wish and put them on an island isolated from the rest of society, there they can do whatever the hell they want.

          • ozhunter on 19/05/2020 - 11:59
            -2

            @gromit:

            my sister isn't safe as she is immune compromised.

            Unfortunate, but that doesn't seem like other people's problem.

            I believe we have a social responsibility to protect the community as a whole

            I agree but not to no end. I think the line is drawn when people want others to take injections so they can protect themselves.

            • gromit on 19/05/2020 - 12:02
              +2

              @ozhunter: Thankfully the majority doesnt think like you and doesn't accept that high infant deaths, high elderly deaths and high immune compromised deaths are an acceptable freedom for people. Anti Vaxxers are little more than murderers and child abusers. Sadly anti vaxxers take no responsibility for the damage and lives they destroy.

              • ozhunter on 19/05/2020 - 12:19
                -1

                @gromit: There is a high amount of deaths from those diseases because anti-vaxxers aren't taking the vaccinations?

                • gromit on 19/05/2020 - 12:26
                  +2

                  @ozhunter: yes, the death rates have been gradually increasing over the last decade due to anti vaxxers. Sadly I think it is going to take a major outbreak that personally affects some of them before they see the stupidity of their ways. You only have to look at what recently happened in Samoa to see where this is headed.

  • CalmLemons on 18/05/2020 - 11:57

    You can't win with emotional arguments against these people.

    The better option is to not have an argument with a Karen in the first place.

    Nature/flu/smallpox/measles/covid19/or the other millions of unidentified diseases and viruses will take care of the rest.

  • MontyMacaw on 18/05/2020 - 11:59

    Stupid is as stupid does - quoting Forrest Gump’s mum.

    Darwin would say it is the natural order of things and it will sort itself out over time. Survival of the brightest :P

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