Am I Being Reasonable? Faulty Goods

lltravel on 15/06/2020 - 19:07

Hello all

I bought an electronic product last week

Turns out the product is faulty and after troubleshooting with the manufacturer they have advised its faulty

I have approached the company that I bought it from and they advised they need to log an RMA and I have to wait for a replacement. NO eta on a replacement yet

The item is not cheap and I spent $1800 on it. It does not work as intended and it is only 7 days old. I have used it 5 times and 3 of those times troubleshooting with the manufacturer

Am I well within my rights to ask for a straight swap for a brand new one?

What are my rights here? I really can't wait around days and days for a replacement.

Electrical & Electronics

closed Comments

  • foxmulder on 15/06/2020 - 19:11
    +3

    Major or minor fault? If major it's your call, if minor it's the seller or manufacturer's call

  • lltravel on 15/06/2020 - 19:12

    Its a major fault. Every time the device is used it throws up an error code.

    Basically a paperweight

    • AustriaBargain on 15/06/2020 - 20:20
      +1

      Did you buy it from a commercial supplier or from a retail store.

      • lltravel on 15/06/2020 - 21:13

        It was a retail store. For some reason I am now talking to their sister company. An absoulte gong show

    • sykeau on 16/06/2020 - 09:00
      -4

      A major fault is one that is classified as it not being repairable. A minor fault can be repaired.
      What you are talking about is a DOA however these are only usually within 7 days of receiving the product. I know you said it is only 7 days old. But if you had contacted the retailer first, rather than the manufacturer this would have been solved easier (in my experience).
      Unless you can get the manufacturer to state that it is DOA and they give you a case number that you can return it to the retailer with.

      In Australia your warranty is with the person you bought it from, not the manufacturer, so if you have any issues you should not skip the retailer as this can cause issues.

      • lint on 16/06/2020 - 09:51
        +7

        A major fault is one that is classified as it not being repairable. A minor fault can be repaired.

        This is wrong. Broadly speaking, there is a major fault if:

        • it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it
        • it is significantly different from the sample or description
        • it is substantially unfit for its common purpose and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time
        • it doesn’t do what you asked for and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time; or
        • it is unsafe

        Any other fault, such as a cosmetic fault, would be considered a minor fault. It doesn't matter whether or not it can be repaired.

        Since you have a major fault (unfit for common purpose and can't easily be fixed within a reasonable time), you can ask for it to be swapped for a brand new one or a full refund.

        • Blitzfx on 16/06/2020 - 10:01

          I'm in a similar situation with OP except mine is 5 months out, and the PCB (which is the entire product) has failed. Do you think I can ask for a full refund?

          They didn't give me a choice and said they have sent it back to the manufacturer for RMA in China(I've already sent it back to them)

  • jjjaar on 15/06/2020 - 19:15
    +1

    Is the replacement they are offering a straight swap? Is it possible they don’t have any in stock and that’s what is causing the delay?

    • lltravel on 15/06/2020 - 19:16

      I am not sure. They advised they logged a service call with the manufacture and they are waiting for the replacement

      They have stock as the website has plenty of stock and its a brick and mortar store where I went and picked it up. There's plenty on the shelf

      • jjjaar on 15/06/2020 - 19:20
        +13

        Oh then in that case, they have to just give you the swap straight out and they can deal with the replacement afterward.

        • FlexBargain on 16/06/2020 - 10:22

          100% take it back to the store, show them the fault and refuse to accept anything short of a straight swap for another one. The retailer is usually under an onus to confirm the fault to then send it to the manufacturer to provide assistance to them, not you.
          You are well within your rights once the fault it shown to the retailer to be given a replacement on the spot if they have stock.
          Not your responsibility to comply with their policy between them and the manufacturer, by that I mean waiting for a replacement from the manufacturer to the retailer.

  • [Deactivated] on 15/06/2020 - 19:16
    +1

    Kinda odd, but yeah take it back, not your problem

  • [Deactivated] on 15/06/2020 - 19:20
    +5

    If it's only a week old I think you can ask for a new one. They can just get the replacement from the manufacturer.

    • afoveht on 15/06/2020 - 19:24
      +4

      Depends what it is. OP hasn't said. If it's something uncommon they mightn't have stock for immediate replacement.

      • [Deactivated] on 15/06/2020 - 19:26
        +4

        OP has also said he thinks they have plenty of stock but you're right, if they don't have it then he'll have to wait. Why doesn't OP just return it and buy it from another store?

  • Ughhh on 15/06/2020 - 19:20

    They have the right to inspect the product, especially for large ticket number.

    • lltravel on 15/06/2020 - 19:25

      I offered to bring the item into the store and I even provided them with a video showing the issue.

      • Ughhh on 15/06/2020 - 22:25
        +7

        They still have the right to inspect and verify the fault. You have rights and so do business'.

  • MagicMushroom on 15/06/2020 - 19:59

    Yes, you are being reasonable and you can be more demanding by the sounds of it.

  • robbyjones on 15/06/2020 - 20:12
    +2

    You are entitiled to a refund and they would know this. Print this out or show them in store: https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/buying-products-and-servi…

  • [Deactivated] on 15/06/2020 - 20:26
    +2

    Retailer has the right to ensure the fault is indeed present. The staff at the store may not have the expertise to make that assessment.

  • John Kimble on 15/06/2020 - 20:29
    +32

    Why do people intentionally withold information? Just say what the item is and who you bought it from.

    • Kangal on 15/06/2020 - 20:33
      +3

      This. Thank you Arnie

      • hashtagbargain on 15/06/2020 - 21:12
        +7

        So what?

      • Seraphin7 on 15/06/2020 - 21:24
        +7

        You're going to "expose" a company that's given you a remedy for the problem?

          • Seraphin7 on 15/06/2020 - 21:32
            +9

            @lltravel: The details provided here are sketchy.

            The retailer has a right to inspect the item, determine the problem and offer a remedy. You have a right to demand a remedy that is reasonable both in terms of outcome and timeframe.

            I can only assume you believe that the proposed remedy of replacement is not reasonable.

            Oh … and I've had more than one occasion to return an item priced in the thousands of dollars due to it being faulty on manufacture … but, hey, thanks for the assumption.

  • lltravel on 15/06/2020 - 20:34

    So update

    The CEO of the company replied and simply stated There is a lengthy 6 month process of proving the fault, mediation sessions with the ACCC, and then an outcome which will be decided as “please provide the customer with a replacement, repair or refund.”

    He clearly knows how to work the system

    I clearly have no choice now to wait…

    • Ryanek on 15/06/2020 - 20:42
      +18

      Name and shame.

    • [Deactivated] on 15/06/2020 - 20:43

      Hopefully, you have saved email and report this to the appropriate agency.

      I clearly have no choice now to wait…

      If they have stock they should replace straight away. I think you need to be more assertive.

      • lltravel on 15/06/2020 - 20:51

        Who do I report it to? Theres a huge email trail

        • [Deactivated] on 15/06/2020 - 20:52
          +1

          ACCC or fairtrading?

          You could also consider small cases tribunal

          • lltravel on 15/06/2020 - 21:38

            @[Deactivated]: All i really want is an item that works. Its just frustrating having to wait when clearly they can replace it on the spot

          • afoveht on 16/06/2020 - 00:29

            @[Deactivated]:

            ACCC or fairtrading?

            AC/DC. (Concrete shoes, high voltage, etc)

    • whooah1979 on 15/06/2020 - 20:46
      +2

      Don’t worry about what the CEO told you.

      How did you pay?

      • lltravel on 15/06/2020 - 20:48

        I paid with cash. I saw that they were doing me a good deal so I thought I would walk in and pay cash and save them the transaction fees

        Clearly thinking of them first was the wrong option

        I usually wouldn't do that but since they were local and a small business I would help them out by not going to a larger brick and mortar store

        • Heaps for Cheaps on 15/06/2020 - 21:22
          +3

          I have always liked to pay cash to save fees, but have realised once they have your money they dont give a stuff and you get worse service because you have little recourse except for a slow process through tribunals.

    • Cave Fire on 15/06/2020 - 21:15
      +2

      Looks like they are trying to mislead you. The responsibility is on them as soon as there is a fault. I'm reading a page of the ACCC website that says they must solve the problem, not the manufacturer. After they fail to do that, then there is a longer wait. A small claim should take a month or two. They can only repair if it is a minor fault. Major fault gives you the right for replace or refund ACCC website

      • Ughhh on 15/06/2020 - 22:33
        +3

        I'm reading a page of the ACCC website that says they must solve the problem, not the manufacturer.

        It's means that retailer can't palm you off to manufacturer, they will have to send it off or deal with the manufacturer on your behalf. Doesn't mean they have to "solve the problem" by fixing it instore.

    • Heaps for Cheaps on 15/06/2020 - 21:18

      Did you pay by credit card? If so, lodge a dispute for item not fit for purpose.

      Sounds like Kogan, except they dont even reply to emails.

      • John Kimble on 15/06/2020 - 21:27

        And don't have B&M stores

  • wittyusername on 15/06/2020 - 20:49
    +3

    So, who was it and what was the item? I'd also post on their google, facebook and any other social media you can.

      • Logical on 16/06/2020 - 01:12
        +15

        With this kind of an attitude i hope you wait 6 months for a replacement part!

        • lltravel on 16/06/2020 - 11:06

          What do you mean? Just because I didn't tell you the company name yet I don't deserve a replacement? That doesn't make sense

          I already stated once the matter is resolved I will explain exactly what happened

          The only thing I was asking if the goods are faulty within 7 days am I entitled to a swap?

          Theres no attitude, I was simply asking for advice.

      • ThithLord on 16/06/2020 - 08:04

        I know exactly how you can deal with this issue and get an immediate remedy.

    • Zachary on 16/06/2020 - 09:14

      I bet it's a TV from JB HiFi.

      • Zephyrus on 16/06/2020 - 09:36
        +2

        I bet it's The Good Guys and he's been palmed off to JB as they're the parent.

        • cheesecactus on 16/06/2020 - 09:50
          +2

          He said they were local and a small business and he got A reply from the ceo.
          Can't be any of the big guys

      • theguyrules on 16/06/2020 - 10:26
        +2

        JB were nothing but awesome for me when I had an issue with my Samsung TV. They happily swapped it over 3 times then gave me a refund, very little effort involved.

      • lltravel on 16/06/2020 - 11:15
        +2

        I have dealt with JB and TGG. Both the return process or RMA process has been really good. Not any of them.

        • JajaMinx on 16/06/2020 - 13:32

          Kogan and Dick Smith?

  • Anonym0us on 15/06/2020 - 20:57
    +19

    Just tell us the item.

  • onetwothreefour on 15/06/2020 - 21:27

    What is it and where did you buy it from? We won't judge you if you paid full price.

  • AgentXKnight on 15/06/2020 - 21:46
    +4

    Looking at your situation and the fact the seller is trying to bullshit you and that you have by the looks of it already done most of the work on determining the fault your best bet to resolve this sooner than later would be to request from the manufacturer to give you something in writing ie a return authorisation or document that confirms the manufacturer believes there is mostly likely a manufacturer fault present on your product and that the manufacturer's opinion is once the seller confirms the fault should refund or replace your product. If the fault is easily able to be seen or you have video of fault showing it appearing on product combined with a communication from manufacturer about the product fault they should refund you. Otherwise bring their refusal to your State's consumer law enforcement agency ie QLD fair trading where the manufacturer's opinion on fault would be highly persuasive that seller is breaching ACL.

    You should not have to do as much work as this because it is generally the sellers responsibility to manage their own return process but sometimes talking to manufacturer and getting their help performing as much troubleshooting as you can in some cases save both seller and buyer a lot of time on determining if a product is faulty. Also sometimes smaller sellers have difficult return processes because they have to deal with idiots trying to return products that are not faulty because they cannot use common sense or some customer trying to lie about faulty products to get a change of mind return.

    • lltravel on 16/06/2020 - 11:04

      Makes sense

      Thank you

  • WreckTangle on 15/06/2020 - 22:12
    +13

    What’s this secretive item OP, a credit card skimming machine or something?

    • Caped Baldy on 15/06/2020 - 22:51
      +11

      Given OP's reluctance and paying with cash, maybe it's a deluxe fembot.

      • bloom on 16/06/2020 - 07:15

        Paid cash, doesn’t want Fembot on his bank statement ;)

    • b0rnwithabeard on 16/06/2020 - 12:42

      OP bought one of those Real Dolls and is too scared to admit it

  • turk182 on 15/06/2020 - 22:41
    +3

    Reading the post. This suddenly comes to mind as the high priced item
    https://images.app.goo.gl/nuuj4efLweKULZfN7

  • keejoonc on 15/06/2020 - 23:06
    +8

    Did some digging and my guess is that it's a drone based on recent comment by the OP in DJI Mavic deal.
    Now, who wants to do some detective work and figure out which store he bought it from LOL

    • kathmandu-jeff on 15/06/2020 - 23:13

      In that case d1store seems to fit the bill.

    • wizzlesticks on 16/06/2020 - 00:37
      +4

      If it is a drone then it will have to be sent in for diagnostics which will take a while. They might want to check the flight data (e.g. for possible crash) and perform some analysis.

    • raptormesh on 16/06/2020 - 03:30

      I'm not saying OP did this but people have crashed it and claimed it isn't working. Quite common actually especially if they are first time users. Always get insurance.

      • Spic3y on 16/06/2020 - 06:47
        +3

        Ahh! And that's why he doesn't want to RMA? The manufacturer will figure out he's damaged it but the store employees might not if he just gets a straight swap?

    • Caped Baldy on 16/06/2020 - 08:13

      Seems logical but who pays that much in cash for a drone these days.

      • Mattmattmatt on 16/06/2020 - 08:35
        +2

        Maybe someone with a partial cash income (tradie/service) who hasn't been spending cash recently as shops are asking for contact-less card payment.

  • dizzle on 15/06/2020 - 23:14
    +5

    Without knowing what the product is and what fault code it's producing, I would lean in the resellers favour.

    A reseller does have the right to check the fault and make sure it is not something the customer has done to it.

    For example a Videocard for a desktop. The reseller may not have the technical expertise to check the fault. The customer may have caused the fault by installing it incorrectly, so it's up to the reseller to send it to someone who can check it - primarily the manufacturer or their agent.

    A TV may have had a power surge, may have had a cup of water spilled into it - JB Hifi won't be able to tell that. They may take it in good faith that the customer didnt do it, but they have the right to get it checked by the supplier.

    • afoveht on 16/06/2020 - 00:41
      +16

      Maybe OP is treating the seller like this forum.

      Seller: "Can I help you? You say it's not working? What is the nature of the problem?"

      OP: "I'll tell you when you give me a new one and we're done with the process, okay."

  • neosin on 15/06/2020 - 23:58
    +9

    My gut tells me the manufacture believes you damaged the product and trying to claim warranty.

    I also suspect you are hiding something.

    There would be no reason not to name the store and the product if was genuinely DOA within 7 days unless it was a adult toy or something 😂

    • HeyHeyHeyIsItADeal on 16/06/2020 - 00:31
      +3

      he definitely is… everytime someone ask what it is and name and shame.

      Ï'll tell you AFTER. Ill tell you later.

      BRo either he is massive troll or doing something very sketch.

      • lltravel on 16/06/2020 - 11:03

        I asked if I was being reasonable. Faulty goods = Ask for a swap?

        Whats sketchy here?

        • gromit on 16/06/2020 - 13:38

          You asked if you are being reasonable but only provided a partial story. Whether you are being reasonable also depends partly on the type of item we are talking about here and what the fault is. Some items that are prone to customer damage would absolutely take longer as they need to be checked first and sometimes that is simply not possible to be done by the retailer. You say you don't have time to wait around for days and days, sorry but that is unreasonable, you can expect several weeks at a minimum at least if they need to check the item first. The retailer does have a responsibility to get things done in a timely manner, but they also have the right to check the item thoroughly before providing a repair, refund or replacement.

    • lltravel on 16/06/2020 - 11:03

      If I show you the replies from these people you will see why. No its not an adult today.

  • Logical on 16/06/2020 - 01:17
    +9

    Update: the code that the item throws up is: F12 Replace User

    • OzzyOzbourne on 16/06/2020 - 12:05

      Keyboard not connected, press F1 to continue

  • curious101 on 16/06/2020 - 03:15
    -1

    People like OP deserve it. Hope it doesn't get replaced for you.

    • lltravel on 16/06/2020 - 11:04

      How so? What did I do to deserve it? I didn't share the company name to you so I deserve not to get it replaced? Wth?

      • Logical on 16/06/2020 - 12:53

        What is the item?

  • fefris on 16/06/2020 - 06:58
    +5

    Came for the lols, not disappointed

  • pwnd on 16/06/2020 - 07:12
    +1

    I am guessing OP bought one of those new and expensive sex dolls.
    Bit hard to replace those if they have been used a few times.
    No wonder the CEO is playing hardball

  • SteatoLegato on 16/06/2020 - 07:35
    +4

    Lesson learnt. Read the manual before you fly and crash your brand new mavic pro…

  • gromit on 16/06/2020 - 07:49

    Hard to tell if you are being reasonable or not without knowing the product. A drone or laptop for instance will have different warranty process to a robot vacuum or a TV due to the nature of its use (and potential misuse/abuse). If what you are talking about is a drone or laptop I would expect them to want to physically inspect it before providing a replacement.

  • farknos on 16/06/2020 - 08:40

    is it a man doll for those quite times when your all alone?

  • trankillity on 16/06/2020 - 09:05
    +1

    Don't deal with the manufacturer, deal with the retailer. Under ACL, retailer must assist with a faulty item.

    Unfortunately, "assist" in this instance means that they're in their rights to send back to manufacturer to ensure the fault is legitimate.

    However - they must provide a remedy within a reasonable time frame. As someone who works in retail dealing with similar stuff, whenever we've had a dispute like this, reasonable generally consitutes 15 business days.

    So 1) Return item to retailer, 2) let them assess it, 3) if it takes > 3 weeks, get back in touch with them and let them know you're within your rights to get a refund/replacement as it's been more than a reasonable time frame. If they refuse/drag heels, get in contact with ACL.

    Keep in mind that ACL won't generally get any further resolution for you personally, but they can fine the retailer for not abiding to ACL.

    • lltravel on 16/06/2020 - 11:02
      -6

      Thank you, the only helpful reply to the thread.

      • Ughhh on 16/06/2020 - 11:25
        +6

        Wtf people have been giving those advice, you just refuse to accept or you completely ignore it. 🤦‍♂️

        • Hirolol on 16/06/2020 - 12:26

          Seems like it was a drone

  • nickxau on 16/06/2020 - 10:39

    I've cracked this mystery!

    It's a drone. It's a DJI and seller needs to send it back to DJI in china to diagnose the problem but seeing that china is having a second wave of infections it's going to take at least 6 months or more to get a result - that's not even factoring in shipping/lost item etc.

    Source: It's all speculation.

  • eckers19 on 16/06/2020 - 10:46

    btw If this was a drone your not going to get far with dji I sent them over 200plus emails Ove 2 years and gave up and they gave me $75 off a drone accessory
    (and I bought if from d1 store and bought extra warranty)

  • DiscoJango on 16/06/2020 - 11:59
    +8

    Hi, i bought a product, not going to say what, but its not working, not going to say how, or if its a major or minor problem. i tried calling the ghost busters but they didnt answer. who else can i call?

    • lltravel on 16/06/2020 - 13:32

      I already stated it was a major fault

      I already stated i spoke to the manufacturer who confirmed it

      Do you have trouble reading?

  • b0rnwithabeard on 16/06/2020 - 12:45

    look, dude, we're all friends here, just admit that you bought a Real Doll. There's no shame here.

  • phaol7ta on 16/06/2020 - 13:11

    op you waste my time man.. sick

    • lltravel on 16/06/2020 - 13:30

      ok cool

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