In today's time, which is better?
Assuming it's the same area, same academic result, etc.
In what way would private be worth the fees?
More than just mere academic result, would the kids have good creativity, social skill, street smart, etc?
Primary Public Vs Private School: Which Is Better?
[Deactivated] on 18/06/2020 - 17:57
Last edited 19/06/2020 - 15:15 by 1 other user
Last edited 19/06/2020 - 15:15 by 1 other user
Poll Options
- 143Private of course. You pay what you get.
- 59Public. Because it's near free.
- 392All the same (public anyway, because it's free(
Comments
Argument can be made to the contrary en lieu of affirmative-action-oriented firms.
Best to leave high school off the resume imo.
I know some interviewers would pick private school over public.
You know people aren't that smart when there is no private universities and if a private vs public kid both on 75% and a distinction then it is a pity hire?
No kids but suggest you pay for private or else you won't be able to forgive yourself.
If they turn out to be criminals at least you can say you did your best paying for private.
This argument would apply if you send them to a cheaper private school and not the most expensive with boarding, etc. Your kids became criminals because you only paid 10 grand a year and not 50.
Oh no. I mean if they became criminals you are clear because you paid for outsourced discipline.
Oh wait, you're original comment was tongue in cheek… Sorry for the neg.
Most people won't have experience of both systems and what's the definition of "better"… More likely to get a high paid job?
People who don't want to or can't pay for private will say public is fine
People who pay for private will say private is better, otherwise it's not worth paying for.That's a valid point for people sharing opinions.
Me and my siblings grew up going to public school in a semi-rough area. I was still in primary at the time when my sister was in the sister-high school. She would wag/jigg school, be influenced to smoke, had teachers who showed little care, towards around yr 9/10, due to an incident at home, she started to get her act together and focused, but everyone around her just didn't have this focus and wanted to disrupt and dissuade her more so. So my parents with the little money, got her into a catholic school for 10,11,12 yrs, and it was pretty much night and day and the people who she was around impacted a lot.
I finished up primary school and ended up going to the same catholic high school as well. What was more shocking for me of a transition was how hard it was for me to end up "catching up" to my peers in this high school, reason being is my primary school never ever had homework, and never really followed up on assignments and the work you produced. So when I went to this high school, the amount of homework I had, and how strict they were honestly made me feel drowned.
Anyways at the end of the day, either you're in a crap/good area but in a really good public/private school, and the most important thing is really being around semi-decent peers who at the most minimum doesn't influence you in the wrong way and have at least some remote care towards their own education.
^^^ Good points you'd raised.
Social / peer influence is such a strong determining factor / driver of a young person's behaviour and habits.
Many interesting opinions in this thread.
My view is, YMMV with each scenario. đ
Often the private secondary school have feeder primary schools, so that's a reason to send them there.
The missus went through a $50k-a-year schooling route (not in AUS) and I was as public as the community pool. We agree that private is pretty much a waste unless the student is highly motivated to follow the pedagogy and can tolerate the culture. Once either of those two collapses, your investment is wasted and/or your child preservers through school under great distress.
After much discussion, we've formed a view that we should try for the public school route (good catchment; high achieving public school) and put heaps of money into what motivates our children. If it's academia and/or STEM, sink the big bucks into targeted tuition and geek outs. If it's sports, music or arts, spend the thousands per year on those. Also, annual O/S trips to get our children to learn about culture and geography.
Simplified, we look at it as:
Scenario A (Public) - High standard public school; Always have every interest financially backed by parents; Annual O/S holidays; investment property spoonfed at 25
Scenario B (Private) - Crapshoot on private school; A few toffee connections to help improve the odds of our children getting into a firm
Reading books from the library is free.
Or likes of David Cameron (PM of the UK) and Boris Johnson (PM of the UK) who both went to Eton. Read into it what you will. Just because people can pay doesn't mean it is all good inside the gates.
Yeah I kind of subscribed to this view too - school is for revision but you really cram it all in at the tutoring place.
When it comes to primary school, I donât see a participant big academic advantage. Youâre paying so that your kids are mixing with less âpoorâ kids
Personally I donât think that private schools should exist but thatâs not the topic
Controversial. I think we should scrap selective schools in nsw. They are dominated by rich asians. Now you may think this is racist but when 98% of students are Asian and all have tiger mums, that is a monoculture and I believe in diversity.
we should scrap selective schools in nsw. They are dominated by … asians … you may think this is racist
Kinda.
monoculture and I believe in diversity
What does race have to do with it? It's a selective school. It's based on academic merit and hard work. "Race" is not a selection criteria.
There is more to school than marks. The selection is largely based on how much tutoring parents pay for. The students are from immigrant parents who then go to school with only very similar students. They are not exposed to anyone like the majority of this country. I.e. non-nerds, non-wealthy, non-asian, non-immigrant, non-lote speaker, disabled, etc. This means they will gain a distorted world view and likely not understand Australia. Apply any diversity argument.
Further, if these students were in ânormalâ schools, people would understand people like them more. They would better integrate, etc.
Whoa whoa whoa.
That's a broad brush you're using there.It's not a prerequisite to be Asian (rich or otherwise) for a selective school. You enter on your merits.
Again, look at the demographics of James Ruse or similar. 100% Asian, 0% low socioeconomic status. It is somewhat based on merits. You discount the fact that rich parents pay for tutoring to get into these schools. That is truly for the privileged and a different culture. Back in the day, tutoring was for kids who struggle, not to get into a different school.
While selective schools can result in a perverse incentive to 'game' entrance exams, this is more of a failure of standardised testing, which can be rote-learned and tutored.
The notion of having selective schools with merit-based entry and no geographical qualification is a sound one. It allows bright kids anywhere in the state to attend, meet similar students, and study without Jonah from Tonga. I just wish entrance took a more holistic approach with consideration of life circumstances, extra curriculars, personal interests, etc., rather than just written examination.
@SydStrand: I would prefer a system which puts the outlier of very bad behaviour into different schools rather than the more intelligent.
High school kids are too young for those factors to be considered and that would still come down to the parents more than the students.
My opinion is more practical than theoretical. Whilst I like the theoretical, the truth of parents just paying for tutoring to teach the test is dominant.I would prefer a system which puts the outlier of very bad behaviour into different schools rather than the more intelligent.
But then you'd just have schools filled with Jonahs from Tonga. Imagine those poor teachers. And good luck telling these parents that their problem child will now actually have to commute to an even farther school they also don't want to go to.
The idea of selective schooling or academic scholarships to private schools isn't a bad one. It potentially allows kids without the usual means (whether financial or geographic) to excel. The problem is the testing. Private tutoring is a multi-million dollar industry because these companies have it down to a science, and their students can muscle out the gifted but less-privileged kids whose families can't afford it.
@SydStrand: I think youâre talking about regional communities, etc. Iâm talking about families who have perfectly average public schools but decide to spend bucketloads on tutoring to send their kids to a selective school. As I have said, selective schools such as James Ruse have 0% low social-economic children. Plenty of children excel in public schools and maybe more would be inspired to if they were educated with high-performing students.
As for Jonah for Tonga, most teachers can not handle these kids, whereas they could easily handle the average selective school kid. In my opinion, the best idea is a military boarding type school. They are the types of children who need specialised teachers and who need to be separated from the average kid otherwise they are too disrupting. In Jonah from Tonga ironically, they had a teacher just like that. A hardas who can gain their respect.
@Emerald Owl: It's not just regional communities. There are plenty of awful public schools in Western Sydney burbs where a couple of my friends miraculously got out of, that were apparently much worse Summer Heights High (lots of drugs, delinquency, etc.). A bookish kid will rarely excel in such an environment, the deck is too stacked against them. You can never fully discipline that many problem students, but you can give a lifeline to one kid whose only options are bad state schools.
If selective school testing was only made available to under-performing postcodes, that might work. But then you'd just get committed families moving to 'softer' districts to fill those quotas, just as some families move to seemingly random suburbs like Carlingford or Baulkham Hills for the schools. There's no way you can completely prevent gaming of entrance exams, but selective schools are an overall positive institution.
@SydStrand: Yea I suppose that kids is on their own unfortunately. Selective schools in practice donât help kids like that. I suppose if they were on the basis of a school recommendation, it would be better but harder to rank.
I donât think weâre gonna convince each other on the whole. The overwhelming majority of disadvantaged kids donât take the selective school test. Instead what you get is rich families paying for tutors instead of a private school. The students are then raised in a distorted environment due to their parents, with no diversity.
I am all for helping disadvantaged kids but look at the demographics, selective schools trend wealthy.
Iâll leave you with a quote from an acu study
âOne of the ironies is that our research shows that, as selectivity within a country increases, average academic achievement in that country tends to decrease. At the local level our research also shows that in many cases a gifted child would do better in a local public school than they would do in a high achieving private or selective school.ââ
@SydStrand: It is hard to imagine a, usually somewhat more socio-economically advantaged, family planning to move to what is, usually, a 'worse' suburb for educational reasons. If so, that is a good outcome by helping to reduce socio-economic differences in suburbs.
Unfortunately, it is probably more likely that so-committed families will manipulate the system by, for example, renting a 'second' home in the required suburb for however short a time is required, perhaps never living in the nominal address.
You discount the fact that rich parents pay for tutoring to get into these schools.
It's definitely not unusual to see tutoring in selective schools but they definitely aren't all rich. Cabramatta doesn't exactly scream riches to you does it? The parents simply value tutoring and think of it as worthwhile investment. $25-30/hour for 4 hours of tutoring per week at places that churn out state rankers isn't all that much for how much it can help.
The schools are selective based on academic merit. Also its incredibly racist to define 'asian' is a monoculture. Asia has alot of different cultures, you could not possibly think someone from india has the same culture as say, someone from japan.
I grew up in FNQ and there weren't any selective schools nearby but I like the idea of them as I saw in my HS experience teachers having to slow down the whole class for the slower students and yet still leaving the slowest students behind while the fastet students don't even need the explanation, finish the exercise in the 1st 10mins and then spend 50mins of the class bored out of their minds. In some other countries they have general HSs and specialty selective HSs that are based on what kids want to do as a career. I'm in favor of trying that here, too many kids taking subjects they don't need or at a pace they can't handle.
Im not saying itâs a monoculture because of race. Iâm saying itâs a monoculture of nerds, wealthy, non-lote, care a lot about school, etc. I donât understand why you would move to Australia and not integrate better. A school with half first/second generation immigrants is bad, 100% is very bad.
Different abilities in a classroom is good. Teachers should have given you harder material. Better students can master material by teaching it to weaker ones. What about the effects on local public schools who donât have many of the brightest kids? They wonât understand what is capable. Then there are students in selective schools who despite trying very hard will be at the bottom of the class. This is bad for their personal development, they may learn better being at the top of a normal school, etc.
Kids shouldnât be pidgeonholed into what they want to do as a career that young. In the US, most kids even have a couple years of general studies in college before they decide. What you actually get is parents pushing their children into what they want.
I think we should scrap selective schools in nsw.
I agree, but not for racial reasons. Studies suggest its better overall when there is diversity of academic performance - the top-mark kids help the lower-mark kids, which benefits both (in a range of ways, not just marks).
In a selective school, yeah, the kid that was getting 97% in the regular school might now get 98%. But his mate that got left behind now slips from 75% to 65% because he lost his study buddy.
Asia isn't exactly small. There's the usual south-east Asians then there's a bunch of south Asians and despite they're all grouped together the Asian banner, there's some diversity within this group.
what do you think about private schools then where 98%* of students are Caucasian then? Theres not much diversity there either, a monoculture there too?
There are only a few selective school compared to private and youre worrried that theyre not getting enough "diversity" because theyre "asian" dominated.
Controversial i dont know, maybe? it just comes across as hypocritical lmao
Australia is up to 90% white as a whole. If someone is exposed to only white people, they are exposed to what is the dominant majority of the country. Being surrounded by almost all asians means you are living in an ethnic bubble. I donât believe the best way to manage a country is through various bubbles of different races. I do not approve of people of people coming to live in Australia and living in a seperate culture. A private School is not all nerds who study all day. There are nerds, sports stars, rich, scholarships, etc.
There are selective schools in Nsw that are all nerds who need tutoring to be there. I do not like this tutoring culture at all, it is an Asian culture that is too competitive at too young an age for Australia. It is reminiscent of the Chinese education system where the ccp stooges are chosen at a young age.
I personally believe that Asia is hyper capitalist and this talk about being collectivist instead of individualistic is the complete opposite.
In the end, my belief is that Australian culture should be dominant in all schools here. Now, you will say that they were born her and so have Australian culture, that is not true. They are Australian but are creating a different cultural bubble O.T. the country they moved to, one that is overly competitive and corrupted by money.
There's two sides to this. If you go to a school in an affluent area you'll be safe, knowing that the students will be from a good background and therefore do well. (In my case there are private schools consistently scoring worse than the public schools in close proximity). From my background it isn't worth it, although if you want your kid to have a good network to start their professional life off with then private is the way to go, nepotism/contacts are sometimes priceless in the professional world - as bad as it is.
If it isn't an affluent suburb then it may be a little more difficult. I've seen many cases where private schools have churned out kids on par if not behind those in the public school. I would be more inclined though to send my kid to a private school if the public school was filling up with kids who would be more disruptive/ a hassle to teach.
My opinion (private school educated, but live in an area with lots of good public schools).
Not too much difference academically when considering the best performing private schools vs best performing public schools. Probably a bigger discrepancy towards the middle and lower end of the academic 'reputation' scale. Personally, if you have a decent public school in the area, I would invest more money into private tutors if you want them to do well academically.Extracurricular wise, I appreciated and enjoyed the activities my school offered. I know many public school students didn't develop diverse interests and hobbies (including sport) simply because they weren't offered them during school (not saying these things can't be picked up after high school).
Really depends on many factors: the school structure, the student, environment
Unfortunately not straightforward
Primary public then private high school.
Isnât a childâs personality developed when they are young though?
I've had the pleasure of teaching in primary and secondary public. I know where kids get influenced for the worse.
There shouldnt be a vote on this at all. In some areas Private >>> Public every time. In some theyre equal in others it could be the other way around….
You have to actually go into the school, judge it yourself.
We bought a house in a good public school zone (Pri and Secondary) in Melbourne. Seems to be more worth it than buying a cheaper area and sending to private school. When/if i sell next time, i can get a better price too.
I went to Catholic primary and private high school.
My kids are going public school all the way with tutors if they need them. I live in a decent area on the other side of town, well away from the private school zone I grew up in and I'm never moving back.
Private schools are a bubble of privilege and as a kid you have no idea you're in it when you're in it - it is all normal to you. You have no idea of normal life, you have no idea that other kids do it tough, or if you do, what that looks like, you buy into this nonsense that you somehow deserve the university spots, that you 'work harder' than disadvantaged kids etc etc. I had a horrible time too in high school, for a variety of reasons and the school didn't care, as long as you get good marks, you can do anything. I did not get good marks. My parents had split up, and my Dad was dying of cancer in the later years and the school just pretended everything was normal and like I should be fine.
It wasn't until I got out of high school with barely the certificate, and went to Tafe with my nonexistent year 12 score that my eyes were opened. Undergrad was a bit more of a bubble. And it wasn't until I finished medical school and did my internship way out west that I really really understood.
I'm building up enough of my own contacts that will help my kids if they ever need it, and the funny thing about keeping it real and having solid friendships with people who've got a story outside the private school life, is that they frequently work their tits off twice as hard and end up doing very well for themselves. They look after the people who were their friend when the chips were down and I have more of those friendships than anything from my rich high school.
I reckon it's all about the connections that you make.
In a private school, you're likely to make more meaningful and more fruitful connections as compared to a public school.
I've seen a lot of examples where people have succeeded purely based on who they know and not on what they know.
Given a choice, I'll send my kids to a school where they'll be successful in their chosen careers with the backing of who they know, rather than what they know, even with limited knowledge of the field.
End of the day, YMMV, but I'm happy to invest for that possibility.
Not every child is gifted!
But my child could be priveledged.But my child could be priveledged.
could be priveledged.
priveledged.
Yeah that isn't going to happen. lol.
Mate, I shared my opinion. If you don't agree with it then let's agree to disagree.
I've seen way too many jobs being cherry picked for candidates Tian I would like to care about.
YMMV.
Your kid would probably make more as a plumber. This country is supposed to be based on merit. I really detest people like you who try to change it.
And I never said that my kids can't be a plumber.
My experience is that someone with better connections will fare better than someone with no/worse connections.
End of the day, my opinion is that if you can know more people who are placed higher up in the socio-economic spectre then you're likely to get more opportunities.
In a private school, you're likely to make more meaningful and more fruitful connections as compared to a public school.
If you were drinking buddies with Chad, head boy and the captain of the sheds, whose daddy owns a law firm, then sure, it might be easier for you to get hired there. But you're not going to be associating with these people if your parents saved to put you in that school. And if you were friends with these sorts of people, your family was probably a bit like Chad's to begin with, and you don't need any help getting hired anyway. Other than personal connections like that, your school's importance evaporates once you leave it.
I actually 'agree' to come extent with deveshwar0 i share the same opinion becuz i have seen it 1st hand - i went to a public school
However
I have a masters and earn six-figures - i studied a course that required a 95+ Enter Score (now ATAR) with a large proportion of the cohort private school kids if not selective government school kids (which isnt too different to private school kids if you ask me - ie Melbourne High, penleigh, Ivonhoe girls etc)
Although we all came out with the same 'qualifications' it was the ones with better connections that did have a leg up weather they networked from there private school days or from there parents rich friends/family life is moe about 'what you know opposed to who you know'
Im not saying private schooling is the be all and end all but i agree with the sentiment - i could name at least 4-5 people off the top of my head who wouldnt be where they were if it wasnt for a connection they had or a person they knew somewhere high up…
I how human nature works and people on OZB will dismiss my comment and deveshwar0 becuz it highlights the sad reality that life really 'isnt fair' and for some people it doesnt matter how hard they work within the system they will always be at a dis-advantage to those who are born into privilege.
Lots of people succeed due to the hardships they have in life and get to where they get on merit but the truth is there is a reason the rich generally get richer and the poor get poorer and simply put the system is geared against those who arent already in a live of privilege.
(which isnt too different to private school kids if you ask me - ie Melbourne High, penleigh, Ivonhoe girls etc)
A lot of people that go to those school would beg to differ. I know so many grown men who groan about "if only they went to Scotch instead of Melbourne High" they'd be able to get those super high opportunities. There also is an element of luck and timing in everything. They also don't want to put in the long ground work to get to these places off of their own merit.
@serpserpserp: Academically they are not to different but as i said the rich kid schools get you the connections of 'rich kids'
Wealth breeds, Wealth - that is just the way the world is and sadly money is what makes the world go around and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying too you.
The reason why Scotch kids pay so much for essentially the same education as a Melbourne High kid is the exclusivity of what a school like that brings.
I cannot afford to pay 35k a year for one child to go to school but for the mega rich that is church money it is just the world we live in
The reason why Scotch kids pay so much for essentially the same education as a Melbourne High
I would say that the kids at Melbourne High get a better education given the motivation going around cohort. Of course if you because disinclined to pump out a high ATAR score along the way, it probably isn't the best place for you.
I only know maybe 20 people that have gone to Scotch, half have worked very hard at their education and done really well for themselves, the others are deadbeats to be honest. They'll be ok because their parents are middle class eastern suburbs types. But they literally have done nothing with their life of note.
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Couldn't you have searched the many threads on this topic OP to find your answer?
If money was not an issue a good Private all the way of course but if it means renting insteading of buying a house or no holidays etc. If you can afford it you just compare it with the opportunity cost (both parents working full time etc.).
The question is if I had the money and spent this money elsewhere what would I do with it and how would it benefit my children
Perfect example is if your kids had a big trust fund that can be used only for education would you still send them to the local state school? I don't think so
Public schools taught me things I couldn't readily get in a private education, such as street-readiness and defensive living skills.
For example, here's the story of my friend, Tyson. He spent his formative years in a fancy private school before levelling-up to the local public school due to financial constraints imposed by his cash-poor parents, who later divorced due to being cash-poor.
At his former private school, not once did he check his chair for push-pins. His ass literally learnt a life skill in the first week of going public. If your son became a spy, which education do you think will prepare him best for booby-trapped seats? Public school, 1.
And talking about chairs, Tyson was previously ignorant of depreciable assets and their depreciating robustness. Tyson didn't realise that 3 legged chairs existed in the wild and one also had to be ready for them when checking for those painful push-pins. Do you know how many more private than public school students injure themselves every year on poorly maintained, collapsing council furniture? Will your jet-setting private-educated child be sufficiently trained to engage with public infrastructure in the developing world? I think not. Public school, 2.
Tyson went to a pretty homogeneous private school, where all kids were of the same religion and from a narrower range of ethnicities. Tyson quickly learnt that it's a rough world out there and kids' older siblings and parents will teach them to hate from a very young age. Do you want your child growing up with rose-tinted glasses? Not hearing the slur for "people like him" until the television educates him? Public school, 3.
And lastly, Tyson used to be very conscious of the fact his family was poorer than the rest and could barely afford the private school tuition fees and have money left to eat. At his new public school, he met kids that didn't eat breakfast at all! Public school, 4.
WIsh I went to a private school.
Public was so shiite.
The bigger question is whether religion and politics should be in our schools. Firmly they shouldn't.
Well to address this question you need to have a good understanding of these topics and look at this from various perspective.
Both topics are a can of worms and involve strong emotions and beliefs that have been ingrained in people through thousands of years - any argument for or against are not going to have a good result.
Kids should be exposed to and seek an understanding of all aspects of society, rather than be shielded from it. Read widely and once you have looked at all the viewpoints, read widely and sought an understanding of what something is, then you can choose to take an opinion. By not teaching them about something, you are automatically stopping this process of informed judgement. How can you judge something, when you know nothing about it?
This excludes the teaching of religion in schools where the intent is insidious. Children should be taught at least aspects from all the main religious for the broadest perspective.
I never went to a religious school but Iâd figure that it wouldnât be extreme indoctrination. So say if a parent is an extremist of a religion, wouldnât a school of the same religion but not extreme help deradicalise the kid better than a secular school? Iâve never researched this.
Gizdonk is right on the money. The Private Catholic school I went to were filled with atheists even though we had Religious Ed class, had mass every year with the school and did the morning prayer at the start of the day. In the end, we were all exposed to a variety of ideas and went on an excursion to a boxing club run by a devout Muslim and RE included Buddhism, Sikh etc
Is politics in our schools? I certainly never learned anything political. (there are some hardcore neoliberalists who say the entire concept of a public school is political, but I don't think that's what you mean)
We learned some basic principles of our legal system like how parliament works, but I wouldn't call that political either.
Honestly all the teachers i had in my school were all left wingers and openly told us to vote labour because the ALP puts more money into education….
High school for me was openly left in and Uni was extremist left in thus the morons marching and protesting are filled with uni students
I have a friend who tutored in a rich (Melbourne) area. They observed and shared if you're wanting to try to help set your children up with potentially better/easier opportunities and connections for their future, switch your children to private school, even if it is only for the last 2 years of schooling. Eg. If your friend's parent is a head honcho of a company it might help you get an edge to secure a graduate or better role there, or with their connections, whether you're appropriately qualified or not.
Good luck with your decision making. Raising an A+ human being is the achievement you're after though;)This.
Haven't read the top posts above but I would know what they would say having covered this topic numerous times.
It's going to be a huge matter of perspective and also, unfortunately, socio-economic status and mindset in terms of the answers you are going to receive.
We have the typical circle of arguments about private school kids not having 'street smarts' like public school kids. Spoon feeding etc. Some studies have shown private kids perform worse than public school kids, though the science is yet to prove why, and it's most likely because the public school kids get to choose what they like to do, rather than whatever they think makes the most money.
When we look at this question, you need to go beyond the anecdotal of I had this friend or one kid in the family went to public and the other went to private.
Human performance is much based on mindset and attitude than anything else. Being taught the principles of how to manage other people and how to appropriate interact with them is essential. Parents of better socioeconomic status generally have developed better skills at how to manage and deal with people (we're not talking about the case of some random rich douche), a more positive view in life and how to achieve necessary goals without blaming people. Such knowledge is passed onto the kids.
By sending your kids to a GOOD private school, you are increasing your chances of your child being with kids of a positive or similar mindset and teaching.I say GOOD, because there are plenty of private schools, and not all of them are good. Schools are like companies, you have good and bad companies. You have good and bad CEOs and this reflects on the performance of the school and company. Company cultures takes years to grow and change.
You also have the benefits of nepotism. E.g. Tom went to school with Paul, who's dad was the CEO of this Fortune 500 company. When it came to interview time, last 6 applicants were about equal, but Tom was the CEO's sons friend. Who do you think gets the job?
I grew up quite poor and went to public schools and managed to get a scholarship and go to private. It wasn't until I worked my way up in my career and got older that I have begun to understand how shithouse public school was and how disadvantaged you can be. The attitude from the school and parents was generally poor. The teachers were treated badly. The teachers were underpaid. The school I send my kids to now, the experienced teachers get paid better than some of our consultants. The teachers are very good.
Primary school doesn't matter that much but high school definitely does.
Once again, if you are going for private, understand there are differences between private schools. Just because a school charges, doesn't make it good.
I leave you with this: NOTHING MATTERS IF YOU DON'T TEACH YOUR KIDS RIGHT.
You aren't just here to solve menial problems, you're here to be something inspirational to the human race.
â most likely because the public school kids get to choose what they like to do, rather than whatever they think makes the most money.â
Arenât children of less wealth more likely to be worried about money than those of more? Studying arts is considered more of a wealth personâs discipline, itâs students arenât as worried about making money because they are going to inherit fortunes, etc.
Further, a kid of wealth would have more opportunities to do what they like.You also have the benefits of nepotism. E.g. Tom went to school with Paul, who's dad was the CEO of this Fortune 500 company. When it came to interview time, last 6 applicants were about equal, but Tom was the CEO's sons friend. Who do you think gets the job?
When has this ever happened to someone who wasn't also from a privileged background, and whose family was also in a position to theoretically offer reciprocal favouritism to Paul? This idea that putting your kid into a school with the children of rich and powerful is somehow going to automatically elevate their life prospects is pure fiction. From my schooling experience, sharing a class doesn't equal favours, and there's nothing these families hate more than the socially ambitious.
No it mostly doesn't apply if you have nothing in common with the other parents that is, you would need to be somewhat informed, rather than spend all your money on sending your kid to the school and have nothing left thinking the above which you have mentioned.
If your friend's parent is a head honcho of a company it might help you get an edge to secure a graduate or better role there, or with their connections, whether you're appropriately qualified or not.
As a product and sorta beneficiary of the old boy's schools, this does not happen. If you're best friends with Bryce Walker in high school, then his dad might get you a sweet internship at his firm; but it also means your wealth, families, and postcode were probably comparable in the first place.
However, if your family is even thinking of sending you to a public school but decides to save up and put you in X Grammar, good luck ingratiating yourself with the snotty blue bloods. Then what? You hit that classmate who barely remembers you up on FB for an interview, because remember me? We were in the same class photo four years ago!
Lots of scenarios in which this can play out. I've received relative benefits socially and economically that I would have have had if I had kept in the public system. Any benefits today were as direct o indirect result of my private associations. Just depends on how good you are with people I guess.
You would have to be able to relate or associate with people. I'm quite young and I've noticed a few parents just don't fit in at the gatherings. Such is life and human nature.
That said, if your kid has enough grit and perseverance then no, it's not going to make that much of a difference as the school system does consider if you perform well and come from a shitty school.
I wouldn't take out a bloody loan to send your kids to private though that would just be silly. Spend the extra time teaching your kids.
Unfortunately for most good private schools, you have to beg them to give them your money. There is a wait list you have to get on from birth
You canât just waltz in for the final 2 years of education, you have to âpay your wayâ through the years to have a place in year 11 and 12.
In reality, if youâre plan is to nepotism up, your kid is gonna need more than 2 years to weasel the way into the hearts and minds of the preppy!
All those private school fees can pay for a lot of tutoring, or even full fee at university. Without the right credentials, no amount of connections will get you hired as a lawyer / doctor / investment banker / ???
Public all the way. I hate how here in Australia there is such a thing and itâs a huge business. In other countries, such as the Uk, there are very few private schools and everyone goes to public. If you live in a good area public will be fine.
My kids are at a public school.
But I have visited a few private schools which the kids have activities there.
Wow looking at their facilities, sports grounds, pools that puts public pools to shame. Wow.
Some higher end public schools are very good too but extremely competitive to get in unfortunately.
Sadly some public schools do not even have grounds for the kids to play as the area has added hi rise buildings and the filled the playgrounds with demountable buildings.
:(
Some times is it is not the school rather, the child itself and the guidance of good/great teachers and parents.
During the lockdown when schools were closed, it was difficult teaching the kids. It was one on one, school is one teacher to about 30 kids!I was always sent to private schools, having the right university education makes a larger tangible impact in the end.
I was always sent to private schools, having the right university education makes a larger tangible impact in the end.
University education isn't determined by private schools though..? University entrance scores are determined by ATAR for NSW anyway..
If you look at the HSC top 10 list.. almost all are public?Money can buy facilities and higher paid teachers but money can't buy determination and brainpower.
How about combining determination and brainpower with better facilities and higher-paid teachers? :)
All I'm saying is, I care more about my university education. After I got my degrees, it didn't really matter anymore which schools I went to.How about combining determination and brainpower with better facilities and higher-paid teachers? :)
Resources spent on blanket private school fees can also be redirected/diverted to dedicated private tutors.
All I'm saying is, I care more about my university education. After I got my degrees, it didn't really matter anymore which schools I went to.
After you get a job, your degree doesn't matter much either..
@cwongtech: Yes, I had private tutors too.
As you said "university education isn't determined by private schools" but getting the jobs that I wanted required the right university qualifications. Now that I'm working for myself, it still requires those degrees, even legally.
@cwongtech: If you are paying for private tutoring does that kind of defeat the purpose of public schooling?
I did loads of tutoring in year 12 i went to a public school but the tutoring wasnt cheap….
I kinds of agree, lots of 'public' schools do just a well as private but if you took out the 'public selective' schools the story reads differently…
In the end of the day 'marks' are over rated and good grades do not equate to a high paying job (which is ultimately why we study hard) - i wonder if a study would/could be done regarding the 'social' networking side of private vs public schools and its effects on long term employment/salary/success
My personal opinion is for primary school; if the results are same, it would not matter. Use public and save your money.
I went to St Kevinâs….
Both have their pro's and con's, I'd say neither is overall better than the other and what really determines a kid's success is their drive, which is likely related to their upbringing and values.
If in the same area with same academic results, then for me it's a no brainer to select public school. Usually, higher academic results are associated with better disciplines of the school (either public or private). I would not mind paying for private education (for better disciplines where a similar public school isn't available) if and only if the fees are bearable and the institute isn't a religious one. I know quite a few friends of mine who have sent their kids to private schools for the sake of better disciplines later regretted their decision due to the 'mild' brainwashing happening in catholic schools. Presumably, this brainwashing may not be as close as bad as what's happening in Islamic schools. Either way, kids are the most vulnerable, hence even at mild levels this brainwashing is concerning. It's unfortunate that we don't have a private school system in Australia that are affordable and non-religious (there are independent private schools but they are ridiculously expensive). Nothing against religions, just want to raise my kids without poisoning with religious ideals at least until they grow up to a point to understand the meaning or necessity of them (only my 2 cents).
My preference was to send my children to public primary school, but grudgingly ended up choosing the local private school instead due to the quality of results and facilities of the local public primary school.
Being 'worth it' is very subjective, my partner and I can afford it, so it was never really about money. I don't think there is a blanket answer to which is better, you just need to look at what is available in your area. The 'best' school is highly subjective to the personality of your child, and only if there were no good options would I consider moving my family.For those that think private school's value is about connections and getting good jobs, then I think you are underestimating the resource gap between both. Bright kids will do well wherever they go to school, but any teacher is loathe to let any student fall behind. If that school has less resources, those teachers have to make tougher choices about how they prioritise teaching their cohort of students. This is why socio economic factors (quality and access to learning resources at home) are such a big driver of outcomes. But it varies hugely from school to school and teacher to teacher and even between different groups of kids
The other subtlety is the role of parents in the school and the aspiration of the students. It's more prevalent at secondary school, but kids who see their friends parents as doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs, business/finance professionals, become more aware of these as aspirational and achievable career choices. It's hard to value as a tangible affect, but kids often will often find interest and aspire to follow in the path of role models they see around them.
Very true about aspirations connected with parents occupations and circle of friends.
If you don't know what a particular job is and what it takes to get there, you're not going to end up there. Especially if it is a competitive field where you need ambition and hard work in high school to qualify later on.
The difference is not about kids, but parents.
Very true.
Which schools have those parents?
Public - END UP IN CENTRELINK QUE OR JOIN A GANG AND DIE
Private - END UP BUYING DRUGS FROM PUBLIC STUDENTS _ HAHAHA
End of the day - the student needs to choose the right friends in lifeYes, but it's easier said than done. My friends were high achievers in school then became drug addicts in uni. Was pretty wack.
Nah the private school kids, especially the elite private schools, had the most drugs and the best drugs when I was a kid.
The public school kids couldn't afford the price of stock.
The poor private school kids couldn't either.
But those rich private school kids… Money makes money.
I've worked as a teacher in both and there are big differences. Public schools have more money, more children and challenging behaviours. Staff are also generally paid more. In private our class sizes are smaller, there's less money for resources, teachers are responsible for running things like assemblies, camps from Year 1 to Year 12, weekend events, the children are generally better behaved but the parents can be more demanding. I imagine this would vary by state though.
Which state are you in?
OP sounds like he has buyers remorse.
Don't know as a collective, but the Junior Westbourne Grammar School is a hole.
Why?
Personally I think private and public are both are the same. I went to a public Primary and High School, completed Tertiary schooling and have worked in a big 4 bank, a state and federal government agency and various private sector companies and non asked what sort of primary schooling i did. The best thing you can do is encourage your kids. If you want your kids to study show them you can study (especially when they are young and impressionable!) If you want your kids to read, let them see you reading!. One thing I will do is encourage my kids to complete all their studies earlier in life i.e complete a university course before starting work full time, and before doing the obligatory overseas (mid uni) travel (which so many kids see the need to). I completed my tertiary study later in life thinking I needed to work. But anyone can get hecs, if they think they cannot afford University studies!
Private school is mostly a scam in Australia.
As others have noted, the best of the best private schools have rich children who will be successful no matter what.
There are a lot of middle class people who are maxing out their mortgages to send their kids to private school on the belief that they will be able to join the elite.
I would say private school is even a scam for the very wealthy here. If you don't believe me, download the annual reports for the best ones in the country and look at the university outcomes. The vast majority of the kids at Geelong Grammar end up at Melbourne University. No offense to Melbourne University or Geelong Grammar, but in other parts of the world, if you paid $45,000 a year in school fees then you expect your child to end up at a much better university than Melbourne Uni. You expect a shot at the ivies in the US or Oxbridge.
Shouldn't you expect most of them to end up at a world class University in their own country? Why on Earth would expect a significant portion to head overseas for further education? It's a pretty select few who would even want to.
Some firms like to hire kids graduated from a private school.
I know some interviewers would pick private school over public.