Disputes over selling estate

John678 on 04/07/2020 - 15:28

My mother passed away a few ago.
My sisters and I are beneficiaries to my mothers estate and my oldest sister is the executor.

My mother’s house has been on the market for 2 months and my sister is intent on selling it.

The listing price I think was on the low side but I was willing to accept it if it could sell quick.

She has informed me an offer has been place and she wants to accept it. It’s 25k less then listing price.

I said I wasn’t really comfortable with it and was met with hostility.

My sisters seem to think selling it to a “young family is a nice thing to do”. I am of the opinion my mother would prefer we try to sell it for the highest price.

They are now annoyed at me for objecting the offer but I feel like as I’m not the executor, she is going to accept it anyway.

We’ve have had a falling out since the passing of my mother. When I objected to the offer she said “you can start paying for maintence then” and “ I knew you would say no”.

This is my only inheritance and I don’t want to be shorted changed but am feeling pressured. Am I in the wrong here?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • thatonethere on 04/07/2020 - 15:44
    +66

    Perhaps get advice from an estate lawyer and a house valuer.

    The house is probably burning estate money with rates and maintenance (to keep it looking good for sale) etc. Best to liquidate and move on before you destroy the relationship with your family.

    • McBanjo on 07/07/2020 - 10:06
      +25

      Agreed, the relationship with your family is worth much more than a pety $25K. You are not executor, you are lucky to sell it at all during this pandemic. My advice is to drop it and apologise, leave it up to them who are all doing this as volunteers (nobody gets paid for their time to be an executor). If not they will likely never forget it. Your biggest issue is your offer actually getting finance from a bank during COVID, not the acceptance of the offer.

      Also, like hell your mother would want to see her kids squabble over her things after she's gone.

      • cameldownunder on 08/07/2020 - 10:32
        +2

        Agree, but for OP it's actually 1/3 of $25K.
        My mum left us ( me and brother ) 2 houses, the house he inherited has higher value but higher mortgage, and he lives in it. Net value ( house less mortgage ) he still got the better deal, possibly by 100K - 200K, but we are the oldest generation now, and it's not worth the fight.

  • ozhunter on 04/07/2020 - 15:46
    +63

    It’s 25k less then listing price.

    Selling it quickly and splitting that 3 ways is worth it imo, especially you don't get along that well with your sisters. Next person that makes an offer is likely to bargain the price as well.

    • dizzle on 04/07/2020 - 16:59
      +16

      You're right, $25k less split three ways, is a generally a small amount.

      Assuming the house is $300,000 - you'd still be getting $91.7k vs $100k. Obviously if house price is lower it's a larger %, but it's only around $7k anyway.

        • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2020 - 17:22
          +110

          Not at the moment it isnt

        • garetz on 04/07/2020 - 19:56
          +22

          Thats not the way you should be looking at it.

          Also in the current market, if you wait you might get even less in the future.

          Take the money and move on, especially if both your sisters want to sell.

        • D C on 05/07/2020 - 11:34
          +58

          Stop being so greedy, ffs.

        • Zondor on 06/07/2020 - 14:15
          +5

          If it's not selling at the old price you're getting $0 anyway.

        • BestofOZB on 06/07/2020 - 17:17
          +41

          Mother was right choosing the executor I think.

        • dizzle on 06/07/2020 - 17:37
          +2

          A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

          You could wait longer to get your $7k (or more), but how long do you wait, 1 month, 3 months, 12 months. And if you wait, how much extra trouble is it going to be (Extra advertising fees, Extra rates, Insurance, Garden upkeep, Cleaning for inspections)?

        • FW190 on 06/07/2020 - 23:24
          +1

          Exactly!

          Stand your ground mate! I reckon you should hire a lawyer to show your sister that you are not going to be pushed around by her!

          • FW190 on 07/07/2020 - 08:20
            +2

            @FW190: to the OP (and others who negged me), the above was just a sarcastic jab, no, don't hire a lawyer, it will cost you way more then $7k :)

            • Blitzfx on 07/07/2020 - 14:54

              @FW190: I've heard of family squabbles costing tens of thousands, which is a possibility since OP now has a bad relationship with their sisters. Very risky to keep arguing over 25k split 3 ways. The 2 of them might pull something expensive on OP.

          • cameldownunder on 08/07/2020 - 10:35

            @FW190: </sarcasm>

        • od810 on 07/07/2020 - 01:06
          +2

          I rarely say crappy thing on Ozbargain. But your thought process is really dumb. With the current property market, you will not sell for more as time goes. And you are willing to ruin family relationship over 7k. Look at the number of downvotes and see how people feel about your thinking

        • smartazz104 on 07/07/2020 - 07:21

          Who gives a shit about a holiday, especially considering this is your "only inheritance".

        • Butt Scratcher on 07/07/2020 - 21:25
          +1

          For your sake and the sake of your siblings, your mum definitely made the right decision in choosing the executor

      • sarahlump on 07/07/2020 - 20:23
        +4

        Can we call 8k 8k, not 7k?

        • kiitos on 08/07/2020 - 10:47

          Was wondering that too, also are we sure that there's only 3 siblings involved?

  • conan2000 on 04/07/2020 - 15:53
    +13

    If it's being split at least 3 ways then this will make little difference to what you get in the grand scheme of things. Better to accept, and not have the matter drag on for ages.

    • [Deactivated] on 06/07/2020 - 14:01
      +25

      Expanding on this train of thought - the difference in sale price, $25k, if split three ways is only $7k. Every party walks away with an understanding that $7k/ea was the cost of closing the sale and keeping the peace.

      If you want to drag it out, then consider this - if the house price continues to fall and maintainence and/or problems keep surfacing, you may be out more than $25k collectively, however, your siblings are not going to split that loss three ways.

      If it ends up selling for a further $10k less, they will likely push you to bear the full "losses".

      That's a pretty bad risk trade off both financially and with your relationship. Not worth $7k.

  • Sheila Dealer on 04/07/2020 - 17:10
    +13

    Normally estates are put up for auction to specifically prevent this sort of thing happening.

    • Mechz on 04/07/2020 - 21:34
      +1

      No reserve?

  • toniyellow on 04/07/2020 - 17:45
    +53

    I am of the opinion my mother would prefer we try to sell it for the highest price

    We’ve have had a falling out since the passing of my mother. When I objected to the offer she said “you can start paying for maintence then”

    I suspect your mother also would not have wanted her estate to cause a rift between her children.

    If you have some evidence you think it can sell for more, e.g. an independent valuation, present it to your sisters.Don't forget to account for the maintenance cost, and the opportunity cost for delaying (the sooner you get the money the sooner you could have paid off your own mortgage or invested it)

    Otherwise, it's a really weird and uncertain time to be selling, and your price expectations may not be realistic. I agree with the other comments, better to just sell and be done with it.

    • Jackson on 06/07/2020 - 13:55
      +1

      While I think we are all in agreement, there are a lot of other potential factors that we don't know about, for example what is the investment profile of the property (how much can it rent for, what's owed on it, what will the market price be when things start to return to normal, etc.)

      Also 25k isn't that much, what if the place is 1M? Would be literally nothing. People do often have a hard time getting their head around that, esp people who are nickle and diming on ozbargain

      • JoBevo on 06/07/2020 - 14:46
        +1

        Agree with the above, 25k isn't alot of money when you are talking about Sydney oo Melbourne property.

    • cameldownunder on 08/07/2020 - 10:38

      Or … present them a buyer that is willing to pay "your" price. Within a week. Otherwise take a step back and let your sisters manage the sale.

  • elgrande on 04/07/2020 - 18:06
    +102

    If its been on the market for two months I think your expectations might be slightly above market.

    • ozBFM on 07/07/2020 - 12:08
      +1

      This.

  • Stewardo on 04/07/2020 - 18:25
    +15

    Sell it move on with your lives.

  • netjock on 04/07/2020 - 18:51
    +22

    How much is harmony worth. Would your mother want you fighting over $25k split 3 ways. You can bicker and destroy the sibling relationship or you can take your money and never talk to them again. I think for $8k it is a lot less effort to chose the later.

    • Cheapskate Paul on 04/07/2020 - 19:45
      +4

      This is excellent advice. $8000 vs your relationship with your sisters is a no brainer.

      • Ozpit on 05/07/2020 - 09:57
        +5

        There’s nothing like money to destroy family relationships. Grievances over money will quickly turn siblings, parents, cousins, uncles, aunts, etc. into enemies. Sadly, this is the case for most of us. It seems money is more important than the life-affirming bonds of family kinship.

      • Jackson on 06/07/2020 - 14:00
        -1

        People are quick to make these statements, but no one knows what their relationship is like. But compared to a typical brother and sister relationship this would be true. Maybe his sister is a stupid cow though?

      • Zondor on 06/07/2020 - 14:17
        +4

        It's also only a "Potential" 8k, it wasn't selling at the old price.

  • canyoudoitcheaper on 04/07/2020 - 19:13
    +26

    The executor doesn't need the consent of the beneficiaries to deal with estate assets. It's nice to have everyone on board, but it's not an obligation.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 06/07/2020 - 20:44
      -2

      The primary fiduciary duty of an executor is to act in the best interests of the beneficiaries.

      I agree with everyone else, 7-9k isn't worth the hassle, but OP has a legitimate argument if the property isn't being sold for the best return available.

      • stewy on 07/07/2020 - 10:21
        +3

        More likely OP is dreaming.

        We are in a recession, unemployment is at record highs, Job keeper/Seeker may end soon as might rental eviction moratoriums and Governments are artificially increasing house supply with boosted grants. None of that translates to improved property prices in the near future.

        If the house has been on the market for 2 months and this is the best offer, I'd be taking it.

      • Jalif on 08/07/2020 - 07:36
        +1

        The executor has a good case this is the best interest.

        If this goes to court, they will win, OP'll have legal fees and the offer will be gone anyway.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/07/2020 - 11:52

          Nice legal advice.

          …Except for the fact that an estate will normally bear the costs of litigation when it's a beneficiary against the executor.

  • Baa on 04/07/2020 - 19:17
    +30

    Humankind at its greatest, good to know the worth of family is a measly 8k.

    • GoldenDragon888 on 05/07/2020 - 09:55
      +7

      Reminds me of
      "I done a lot worse for a lot less." Creed - The Office US

  • screensaver on 04/07/2020 - 19:23
    +1

    The executor holds all the power, thats just the way it is. My family turned nasty when there was a Will involved and made it into a dispute when all I asked for was a copy of my fathers photo. There should not have been any nastiness but there was

    • Jackson on 06/07/2020 - 14:02
      -1

      Am I missing the context of this story? How does anyone care about you getting a photo of your dad?

      • screensaver on 06/07/2020 - 14:09
        +1

        my sibling turned nasty the moment I asked for a copy. It was an old photo in a special frame she wanted to give to a nephew. She said I was always in competition with her and I was NOT getting a copy. It really upset me as I am the family historian and making a tree and I just needed the image. She declared war on me. She said No one likes me

  • lvagg59 on 04/07/2020 - 19:39
    -5

    People do "low ball" when they know that it's an estate sale, so I would definitely find out what the market value is for the property and stand your ground if the offered price is well below the market value. Two months is not a long time for a property to be on the market. I believe that the beneficiaries have to agree on the sale price before it can be sold so do some research on pricing etc so that you can make a valid argument. We obviously don't know you or your siblings circumstances so maybe your sister is either comfortable so can afford to accept a lower price or desperate for money so willing to accept the lower price.

  • Cheapskate Paul on 04/07/2020 - 19:51
    +12

    If both of your sisters want to accept the offer then you have lost the vote 2 - 1. Don't wreck your family relationships over a few bucks. I haven't spoken to one of my brother's for over 30 years after my father's death. And he was already wealthy.

    • Mechz on 04/07/2020 - 21:37
      +2

      Were you already a cheepskate?

      • Cheapskate Paul on 04/07/2020 - 22:29
        +11

        No, that's a more recent affliction.

      • Jackson on 06/07/2020 - 14:03

        It all went south for him from there

  • Seraphin7 on 04/07/2020 - 20:02
    +43

    The other option is for you to buy the property from the estate. Presumably then you're picking up a bargain, so you're happy … and your sisters are getting the cash so they're happy. Sounds like a win-win!

  • Euphemistic on 04/07/2020 - 20:24
    +1

    My parents went through al sorts of hell when settling the shares in my grandparents house. Caused quite a few problems because some wanted to sell, others wanted to keep etc.

    Selling and splitting the proceeds is a way of settling the issue. In this market waiting vs accepting a lower price is a gamble and it’s probably better to accept a lower offer and be done with it. It’s not a great tine to be selling.

  • SydBoy on 05/07/2020 - 07:24
    +1

    Everything depends upon how much you value your relationship with your sister as she the only one left after your parents !

  • HelpMeiCantSee on 05/07/2020 - 08:35
    +10

    If you're hellbent on making your life and relationship with family unpleasant for the sake of 8k, go for it. Your mother would want her estate to be a positive, not something that harms the relationship between her kids.

    Let’s face it, the market has softened and it’s a buyers market. By knocking back 25k (you didn’t say what ballpark the house is worth, but median in Syd is $1m), you not only risk losing far more, but you’re also incurring costs which will erode that benefit.

    You do you, but you’re mad if 8k is worth that much to you. Add in those maintenance costs, your 8k doesn’t go far.

  • kiitos on 05/07/2020 - 09:38

    Or parents have the public trustee as their executor to have an independent 3rd party rather than a relative dealing with the estate.

    It costs a percentage of the estate which I was thinking was a bit much. I was thinking it might avoid situations like this, but maybe it wouldn't, there wouldn't likely still be opportunity for siblings to disagree with the split.

  • 82norm on 05/07/2020 - 09:57
    +1

    If you really want to disengage from them, ask them to make up the 8k difference so you don’t feel your out of pocket….but is it really worth it?

    Too many sibling relationships have been destroyed because of money, don’t be one of those statistics.

  • popsiee on 05/07/2020 - 10:00

    If capital gains is in play I'd do a deal with your sister or your party to live in the house for the required period to save some big dough !

    • 82norm on 05/07/2020 - 10:03

      Last time in NSW, you had up to 2 yrs to keep b4 capital gains kicks in after sale.

    • Ashbargin on 05/07/2020 - 11:57

      You can’t just live in the property to remove the capital gain. If the property already has capital gain embedded because it wasn’t Mum’s primary place of residence then capital gains tax will be paid somewhere along the line.

      • popsiee on 05/07/2020 - 12:12

        Sure if primary place ( most inherited properties ) some benefits could be found if parties co operate .
        Investment most likely not .
        I'm referring to primary in my statement as I'm sure people lose huge $$$$ not knowing some tax minimization plans .

        • Ashbargin on 05/07/2020 - 16:42
          +2

          Please explain. The is no strategy where moving into a property reduces the amount of Capital Gains already embedded within it.
          If you are referring moving into the property to continue the primary place of residency exemption this would only matter if you are looking at selling the property 2 years after death. In which case you will need to have made it your primary Residency within the two years.

          • popsiee on 06/07/2020 - 12:34
            -1

            @Ashbargin: If you are referring moving into the property to continue the primary place of residency exemption this would only matter if you are looking at selling the property 2 years after death. In which case you will need to have made it your primary Residency within the two years.

            The state your talking about is this but this is a a simple plan .
            It is not very difficult with co operation , my first point .
            I'm aware of millions being lost not doing this simple plan with some estates .
            Again some people don't worry about $$$$ and would rather be vindictive using lawyers on family to inflict pain .

  • djkelly69 on 05/07/2020 - 11:42
    +1

    Part of the executor's duties in calling in the assets of the estate are to achieve the best result for the sale. I don't see how selling to a 'nice young couple' is doing this.

    • D C on 05/07/2020 - 12:05
      +12

      I don't see how selling to a 'nice young couple' is doing this.

      The recently deceased may have preferred to have that happen rather than the ungrateful kid whinging over a trivial amount of cash.

      • djkelly69 on 05/07/2020 - 12:28
        +3

        The executor's job is not to try and do what they think the deceased would have wanted with the assets.

        If the deceased wanted to sell the house to a nice young couple, they should have either done it in their lifetime or specified it in the will.

        • D C on 05/07/2020 - 12:42
          +2

          specified it in the will.

          Yes, just like they should have specified "don't be greedy a-holes when selling my stuff" as well.

          As the executor is the daughter, you'd figure they might just have a clue what their mother wanted. The son's just in it for the cash.

    • JIMB0 on 05/07/2020 - 12:39
      +1

      If it's the only offer on the table then it would make it the best result.

    • D C on 05/07/2020 - 13:54
      +19

      Siblings tend to do NOTHING but expect EVERYTHING!

      Ya realise you're talking about the @OP here, right? He ain't the executor, he's just got his hand out for a bonus $8k.

    • Yonaton on 05/07/2020 - 14:08
      +25

      Why waste more money on “independent property valuation” when the only valuation that counts is what the market is prepared to pay.

      If after 2 months the OP has not received an offer other than the one that is 25k below what he wanted, then that’s what the property is worth.

      Property prices are now down two consecutive months in most capital cities, possibly more to come when government handouts and bank holidays start to unwind.

      • 82norm on 05/07/2020 - 17:47
        +2

        Ditto and well said. Independent valuation means squat. It’s what the market is prepared to pay.

        • AuSlade on 06/07/2020 - 22:27
          -4

          I'm guessing neither of you are Valuers?

    • BestofOZB on 09/07/2020 - 06:29

      I'm really sorry your family was like this, but not all families are. Most families will sit down like grown ups and agree, the only solution I'm seeing out of OP's story is to accept the best (only) offer.

  • Tee Rex Arms on 05/07/2020 - 16:21
    +6

    Your mother raised a greedy son

    • 82norm on 05/07/2020 - 17:50
      +2

      I don’t think he’s being greedy. It’s fair what he is wanting, but the overall amt is just not worth destroying potential relationships. There maybe cousins, nieces, nephews in the family and imagine they never end up seeing them just because of 8k.

  • GoldenDragon888 on 05/07/2020 - 18:14
    +1

    Poor siblings.

  • screensaver on 06/07/2020 - 04:20
    -8

    a post like this will attract jealousy from others

    • Baa on 06/07/2020 - 12:41
      +8

      You are right, many people here are jealous that their mother is not dead so they cannot squabble over selling her house with their siblings.

      • screensaver on 06/07/2020 - 14:02
        -2

        they couldnt give two hoots about his mother, they just want to call him greedy etc

        • D C on 06/07/2020 - 14:44
          -3

          I don't think the @OP gives much of a damn about his mother either.

          I'll never have this problem as I already own my parents house, I bought it for them. We're not all greedy arseholes.

          • shreav on 07/07/2020 - 17:05
            +1

            @D C: Dude, you are being an arsehole.

            • D C on 07/07/2020 - 17:51

              @shreav: I'm not the one arguing with my sisters over not getting enough inheritance.

              But yeah right, I'm the arsehole.

              • BestofOZB on 09/07/2020 - 06:32

                @D C: To be honest you are the one calling someone who just lost his mother an @hole. Greedy, maybe, @hole, maybe be nicer :)

                • D C on 09/07/2020 - 18:10
                  +1

                  @BestofOZB:

                  an @hole

                  Ok, I'll meet you halfway. @OP is acting like an arsehole, and should be nicer to his siblings.

                  Good to see everyone agrees on greedy though.

  • CocaKoala on 06/07/2020 - 12:27
    +1

    There's no pressure on you to do anything - the legally appointed executioner will do what they deem is appropriate with the estate.

    "Being in the wrong", etc. is all just in your head as you've no say in the matter as you're not the executioner.

    As a side note, and as has been pointed out, relationships are worth more than money.

  • dji1111111 on 06/07/2020 - 12:34
    +12

    Maybe they are pissed off because they have to do all the hard work in managing the sale, including dealing with the real estate agent while you just sit there wanting a bigger cheque?

    Why bother with more potential time wasters and also risk the market deteriorating? Just sell and move on. 25k split 3 ways is not going to change your life. I would be pissed off with you too if I was them.

    • gromit on 06/07/2020 - 19:39
      -1

      Well in fairness that is the Job of the Executor, if that sort of thing is going to piss you off then you should not take on that role. The executors job is to do all that work and ensure they are following the will, it definitely not their role to make decisions like helping out a nice young family (unless the will says so). Having said that I don't think it is worth the hassle for such a small amount, especially in an uncertain market where in a month or 2 you may lose even more.

  • Butt Scratcher on 06/07/2020 - 12:57
    +7

    She’s the executor, she doesnt even need your consent on it. She probably just did it out of courtesy.

    I am of the opinion my mother would prefer we try to sell it for the highest price.

    No, that’s definitely you. It has been on the market for 2 months already. The market also is on it’s way down.

    This is my only inheritance and I don’t want to be shorted changed

    This sorta confirms it, so i dont know why you bring your mum into this.

    You’re probably the unreasonable one here, because you think you can get more money out of the sale.

    Keep in mind It’s their inheritance too, they want the most out of it too.

    • gromit on 06/07/2020 - 20:31
      +1

      An executor cannot make donations from the estate without that being listed in the will, giving a young family a break would definitely fall under that. However all she has to do is sell it and say that is the best offer she was able to get. Still unless we are talking about a house in the 100-200k range it seems silly to worry about this amount.

      • dizzle on 07/07/2020 - 17:26

        However all she has to do is sell it and say that is the best offer she was able to get.

        Which is true, because it's been on the market for 2 months and that's the best offer. Executor is just trying to justify to make it more palatable to the OP that wants more money (when she really doesn't need to justify it).

        If that's the best offer, it's up to her whether to accept it or put more time and effort into getting a higher price that may never come.

        • gromit on 07/07/2020 - 17:43

          Which is true, because it's been on the market for 2 months and that's the best offer. Executor is just trying to justify to make it more palatable to the OP that wants more money (when she really doesn't need to justify it).

          yep by justifying it she has actually given him a potential legal avenue to challenge it. But this is all just silly over such a small amount for a house that has been on the market for 2 months, unless she is turning down better offers I would be jumping at this offer while it is still on the table.

  • Jimmycfc on 06/07/2020 - 12:58

    Just sell it..

  • [Deactivated] on 06/07/2020 - 13:01

    I would've sold.

  • mrvaluepack on 06/07/2020 - 13:03
    +4

    If you think you can get a higher price by holding on to it. Buy your siblings out. Problem solved.

  • oz-eh on 06/07/2020 - 13:27
    +4

    Quote: "I am of the opinion my mother would prefer we try to sell it for the highest price."

    How do you know this is not the highest price for the moment? Do you have any other higher offer?

  • screensaver on 06/07/2020 - 14:00
    +1

    normal business practice is coming back with a counter offer, eg 10000

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