Hi OzBargain, so I have a friend who lives in the USA and with their interesting COVID situation he rarely drives he's new car, like less than once a fortnight.
Obviously leaving a car sitting in the house for weeks is not good for the car, so I was wondering whether turning on the engine and leaving it on idle is better than not turning it on at all and if so how long should my friend leave it on.
Thanks.
Not needed if it s an hybrid
until it starts the petrol engine to recharge the battery …
If they look in the car manual there is usually something on car storage. It probably needs a bit more than just running idle for a while, maybe around the block for the tyres and other hydraulics.
Just take it out for 20-30 minutes once a week, job done. Heck, just pick a supermarket out of the way or something like that.
I don't use my car that much, and mostly for short trips lately. I use a CTEK battery charger once every 2 weeks or so.
Be careful of the battery dying on you.
unplug battery or have a battery kill switch. Problem solved.
Providing you don't have an alarm.
A battery tender is a better option for vehicles that aren't being driven regularity, motorcycles, ride on mowers, cars etc.
+1 - I have a basic $100 tender on the weekend car.
It doesn't get driven much when it's wet so It just periodically gets pulled out and run till the temp gets up every couple weeks.
The daily has had a battery charger on it on and off during this lockdown (Melbourne) so it doesn't die.
No issues with either.
How old is your car?
My daily is like 15 years old it's just a habit to warm the car up before going on long drives…
Just wasting fuel and time
It's a bad habit for a car built in 2005, hell it's a bad habit for a car built in 1995.
Don’t Listen to them. If I were you I’d increase the idle time from 10 to 30 mins. Just To get the fuel warm up and therefore getting better fuel economy.
That's not how to warm a car up. It actually takes far longer to warm up that way, and is worse for it, than just driving off.
No, it accelerates wear, as it takes so long to warm up, also bad for emissions as the cats take forever to light off. Fuel flows from the moment you turn the key to on.
@Willco88: It's ok for older cars to be 'warmed up' if they have a carby but with modern vehicles you should just drive away after 2 or 3 seconds, less wear and tear on your motor and doesn't waste fuel.
and fuel to flow properly….
What dribble. Where did you get this idea? If your car was a 1980 carburetted / manual choke heap of junk I would understand but not a fuel injected half modern car.
@Willco88: There is nothing to disagree on. It's common sense and science. Just Google it. You are:
* damaging your car
* creating extra pollution
* wasting fuel
* wasting money
* wasting time
* silly
@Peter Enis: damn it. I must have read a wilco88 post elsewhere recently, where it was mentioned that oil needs to warm up before it flows properly, so I started turning on engine to warm up while I get ready.
doh! Glad a stumbled here to learn that it was bad advice :)
oil needs to warm up before it flows properly
There's some truth to this, but as long as you're using the right grade of oil your car engine is designed to deal with it being cold.
@SlickMick: It's a case of a little knowledge being dangerous. It's true that oil does flow better when it warm.
The engine oils specified for modern fuel injected vehicles are designed to flow better when cold compared to the oils that were used in the days when Brocky was driving his Monaro around Bathurst.
@trongy: Actually race cars still tend to use mono grade oil (or very narrow band multigrade). Less viscosity modifiers means more room for actual oil/additives. So they do need to warm up.
But for road cars monograde oils went out in like the 60's or something.
@Peter Enis: I like to run it before school drop-offs, takes about 10-15mins anyway,
that way the inside the cabin can either be toasty or chilly for the season 😁😁
@Muzeeb: Turn it on, immediately drive it and redline from your driveway if possible, spinning the wheels helps warm the rubber up, is good for the clutch, gearbox and diff. What doesn't kill it makes it stronger
@Hithere: That's not how we use our mower…..which is also carbeurrated, we just throw the throttle on full and mow the lawn the instant it turns on, not this bullshit wait for the engine to warm up before mowing the lawn….unless that's what we're supposed to do?
@Zachary: These age old myths have got to stop propagating. I suppose this guy also put the AA batteries in the freezer to retain its charge
Despite what others have said, I don't think it's bad, it's just not delivering any significant benefit. Most of the advice you might read on the net comes from people in places where it drops below freezing, in which case 10 minutes of idling is a near necessity.
However I have a similarly aged car, and in winter you bet I do the same. Much nicer to hop into a warmed up car on a 5c day. Whatever damage it does is incidental.
Exactly
To get the engine ready, fuel lines etc, my mechanic recommends letting to engine idle for like 10-15 seconds but I agree with outlander even on a 15c day.
Willco will not co.
10 minutes?! It'll take max 15 seconds to get up to a suitable temperature for you to be engaging a gear. You're wasting time and money. While fuel can go bad if you let it sit for a while, that would only be a concern for you if you'd left your car for years between drives.
Since I faced this problem even pre-Covid, the general answer I always read was to "get a trickle charger" to keep the battery at full capacity.
But there are other problems if the fortnight turns into a month and then a year. I once quasi-abandoned a cheap car for a few years when I lived abroad and the car degraded into garbage. It was parked on the street and everything stuck to everything else due to rust (including the handbrake). I couldn't even pop the bonnet without a crowbar. The tubes and belts had all degraded. I don't remember if the car could be jump started before I sold it for parts but the fuel would have been in a pretty bad state. The tires developed flat spots after gradual deflation. There was condensation within all the mechanical parts and the cabin itself, leading to mould. It was in a coastal suburb but not parked directly by the sea.
I couldn't even pop the bonnet without a crowbar.
Hahahaha - a bit of wd 40 silicone specialist spray should get it off in no time….can be used anywhere that requires lubrication…..
can be used anywhere that requires lubrication….
hmm……….
well…anywhere that doesnt require grease…..
Should take it for a drive every fortnight or so. Needs to be at least 15mins, probably better to be over 30min.
Get a battery charger and hook it up. Charge the battery regularly (fortnightly), or leave it in trickle mode.
Long idle period is no good. It won’t charge the battery properly and doesn’t move anything around, like brakes, gearbox, suspension etc.
Don't store it with ethanol/e10 fuel. Also roll the tyres every month or so. Maybe disconnect the battery.
Anyway I would really recommend this video from a very good mechanic and YouTuber…
Agreed. The weezard is very knowledgeable !
I've only seen his boat stuff, which is pure cringe.
Been reading some of your comments and I'll definitely ask my friend to take on board the advice. I guess if he wants to preserve the longevity of the car he should probably find time to drive it for 15-30 min everyone week or so/
I know people over the lockdown that have turned on their cars and let it sit in the drive way for 15 or so minutes. How old does the car have to be for this to still be a thing?
Also, something I'd like to know is, does leaving a car on idle charge the battery or do you need to actually drive the car for it to charge the battery?
From what I read online, idling for 15 min drains the battery rather than charge it. It's only when you idle it for a few hours when it charges, but don't quote me though.
I read that too, alternator with engine at idle speed unlikely to charge what gone taken out from the battery to start the engine.
…so rev limiter the engine to charge it?
@Zachary: lol probably not a good idea but works according to this https://greensboro.com/yes-revving-the-engine-will-still-cha…
Short covid trips seem to be killing my battery. It was barely starting today, I let it idle for 2 hours since I didn’t want to answer to the police about taking my car for a long drive.
Started up better after this so we’ll see.
How long have you had the alternator for? How many kilometres?
Also how olds your battery?
Battery may be 6 years old - I know it died during a move then, just not 100% sure if I have had it replaced between then and now. Internet says I need a new battery. Cars done 181k with log book services, not sure when alternator gets replaced
Alternator is not something that's on the standard replacement list.
I would go for a battery before an alternator.
Take it to a battery place and they should check it for free (they do in my town atleast)
You need a new alternator.
I usually take my cars for a short 15 to 20min drive which also includes some freeway time. Really get that engine to operating temp.
Use ctek mx5 charger and leave it as it will trickle charge when car not in use.
Also run car in 3rd gear at high rpm around 3000 rpm for a while to charge battery.
he rarely drives he's new car, like less than once a fortnight.
For a new car, less than once a month is OK. Not forever but OK for a 2 or 3 years of "newness".
Its only a few months apparently
Got a CTEK charger to swap between cars when they're not being used just to keep the batteries fresh.
Trying to take them out a little every now and then now that we've been so graciously been granted a 25km radius we can travel.
I just keep an eye on tyre pressures from time to time, drive it around a bit with AC on so seals stay lubricated and everything moves and put it on a charger until its at a float stage.
Then do the same to the other car.
I'd leave a car to warm up for a minute or so until I see movement on the oil temp gauge, I never get straight in to a car with a cold engine and start up and just drive off with any pace, special place in hell for people who get in to cold cars and just fang them, unless it's a rental I guess.
If I have to park my car outside in winter and the windows are all frosty I will definitely turn the car on for a few minutes before I leave.
Otherwise I won't.
+1 to trickle charger. That is all he should do really. Ask how much fuel is left inside but even that shouldn’t be a issue unless it isn’t driven for a year.
Running the car in the garage will do nothing to benefit the car.
Do you need to remove the charger when you drive, or it stays connected all time?
Depends if you want to drag the charger from the power point.
Also if you want to drive with the bonnet up.
The main concern is the battery and for that I use a trickle charger for my car and motorbike. Even outside of COVID I dont use my vehicles much and wife only uses for short trips so I put them all on the trickle charger once a month to keep the battery topped up. I dont think turning the car on for 15 mins or driving around the block is going to do much vs set and forget trickle charge.
Hmm, I am stunned by all the comments that cars dont need to be warmed up? My mechanics as well as the friends who are most into cars and do a lot of their own repairs on their cars have always told me to not just jump in and drive away but to warm the car up till the engine heat marker starts to go up at a minimum or ideally if its hit the normal range or in some cars which have the car is cold light (my mums yaris) till that switches off.
They have new fancy cars like audis , teslas, AMGs, and they still seem to switch their car on or even remotely were available a couple of minutes or so before they get in the car and drive off.
But I did hear from a work colleague that in this day and age with oils etc, its not necessary. Then again I remember watching the news where there was someone from the NRMA on the news reporting that people should warm their cars up as it reduces alot of the wear and tear as most damage / wear and tear occur in the first few minutes of driving a car that isnt properly warmed up.
I have a Toyota Camry 2003. And thought i should always try to warm up so i usually sit in the car for around 30 seconds or a bit longer if i can wait before driving off.
As long as you drive off gently you don’t need to sit there idling. If the car is cold, I turn right at the end of the street instead of left. Right turn is down hill but about 500m longer to get me where I want to go.
Driving gently is no worse than idling and doesn’t waste any fuel while you sit there.
Old mechanics also like to peddle dribble like "disconnect the terminal after starting the car to see if it's the alternator".
It worked when cars were much simpler but with today's electronics, you're going to short out something.
"Warming up", today means driving at a reasonable speed (until cold engine light goes off).
Like you have said, your mechanical friends are probably used to older oils that would be too viscous at lower temps.
The manual of any modern car will tell you there is no need to warm up the engine.
But experience will say otherwise. You can feel a cold engine is not as smooth, especially a diesel. A turbo means there are more parts that need lubricating, and more potential points of failure.
If you want a car to last as long as possible, warm it up. If you sell your car at 100K km, then there is no need, as the engine will still last longer than that, even if it is abused (probably not in peak condition anymore though). Car manuals are written with the "useful life " of the car in mind, not the maximum possible life
I have noticed my car at least feels different and sounds different if I drive it straight away as opposed to warming up a little bit. Not sure if that actually affects things but is something noticeable
They have new fancy cars like audis , teslas, AMGs, and they still seem to switch their car on or even remotely were available a couple of minutes or so before they get in the car and drive off.
You definitely don't need warm up the engine on tesla!
someone from the NRMA on the news reporting that people should warm their cars up as it reduces alot of the wear
It seems you heard it wrong. Here is the NRMA news ;
it says :
"This is why it's fine to drive a modern car straight after ignition (at steady revs) rather than letting it warm up at idle."
Are you sure you heard your mechanic/your friends correctly?
I think maybe the Tesla owner just likes playing with the remote controls.
Nope I didn’t hear it wrong . It was on a news program a few years ago. Nrma rep came on and said exactly what I wrote.
I also didn’t hear my friends or mechanics wrong . I have even seen them do it every time. In the terms of the Tesla , the owner doesn’t do it but his best mate does it. From what he told me it was because even though the engine is electric there is still other parts of a car that can use a warm up. I don’t really know if it’s the hydraulics or brakes or something. Is there still oil in Tesla’s?
But it wouldn’t surprise me if they also find it fun to remotely turn it on. Not just the Tesla but I believe the Audi can also be remotely turned on or at least I know you can do the air con etc .
They'll just be turning it on to cool/warm the cabin, seats, steering wheel etc.
The wife's AMG can remotely open all the windows, sunroof etc to get the heat out
They'll just be turning it on to cool/warm the cabin, seats, steering wheel etc
Unless you are in snow country this is the only reason to pre-start a car in Aus.
@whitelie: The one with the Audi firmly believes that you need to warm up the car for it to not incur wear and tear as much. I have seen him tell off my mate with the amg and also me when we drive off too quickly. I doubt if he will believe me if I tell him otherwise.
But why does my mums 2009 yaris have a specific light indicating when the car is cold as opposed to warm up? Or was that included just because alot of people back then still believed you need to warm. The engine.
@lonewolf: Perhaps it lowers it's RPM limit when the light is on? Can't say I've ever seen one with a light though.
Whilst I don't believe in warming a car up, I don't rev them over 3k when they're still cold.
@whitelie: OH I wonder if its something like that.
This is the light i am talking about. .
https://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58659
What i have always done on my camry is i noticed when it first starts up the revs are high (if on idle) and then slowly as the car warms up, the revs drop down and become quieter. I was told that indicates the engine is warmed up and the cold startup revs being on high is to speed up the warm up process.
https://www.camryforums.com/forum/engine-internal-13/high-id…
https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/high-rev-at-cold-startu…
@lonewolf: Yes, it will idle high to speed up the warm up process as well as stop the vehicle from stalling. Revs will likely return to a normal idle around 50-60° but I would wait until at least 80° (this is roughly when the temp gauge needle starts moving in most cars) before giving it a hard time.
I also didn’t hear my friends or mechanics wrong
In that case, your mechanic or friends was wrong.
because even though the engine is electric there is still other parts of a car that can use a warm up. I don’t really know if it’s the hydraulics or brakes or something. Is there still oil in Tesla’s?
Lol .. on any cars, the only way to "warm-up" the brake is to use them. Yes, there is oil and hydraulics in Tesla but there is absolutely no need to do idle warm-up.
I'm not an expert on this field but all you have to do is do your own research and validate your findings rather than blindly following someone you know.
Quick google search on "idle warm up car" :
Idling an engine is bad in so many ways. The fuel is not completely burnt, so it condenses in drops on the cylinder walls. This leads to both extra wear of the cylinder walls (because the fuel washes the lubricating oil off the walls), and unburnt fuel flowing down the walls and contaminating the oil in the sump. Idling also drops the temperature of the spark plugs, leading to dirty plugs, which can worsen your fuel consumption by some five per cent.
You might have noticed a vapour coming out of the exhaust of some cars in the early morning. That vapour is not the oil vapour of a worn engine, but the normal water vapour from a cold engine. So the longer you idle the engine, the longer it will take to warm up, and so more water droplets will be deposited inside your exhaust system – making it rust sooner.
The following validate what brendanm said above :
modern cars have catalytic converters. When they get to their normal operating temperature (400-800°C, which is a lot hotter than the engine), they convert nasty pollutants into much less nasty chemicals. And you guessed it, the quickest way for catalytic converters to get to their normal operating temperature is by driving, not idling. The longer the time that you idle your engine, the longer that your catalytic converter is too cold to do its job.
Allowing an engine to idle up to temperature from cold can cause a condition called bore-glazing, which is when a glass-like substance builds up on the inside of the cylinders. Over time, the coating can reduce compression which reduces engine efficiency.
When you fire up the engine on a cold morning, the best way to safely warm your oily bits is to simply set off straight away and drive normally.
@Indomietable: The problem is why is Toyota then sending mixed signals as i mentioned earlier both my camry and my mums Yaris seems to have things in place to show when the engine is warmed up or to ensure the engine is warmed up. Or is that just a safety measure to indicate dont rev too high in the beginning but slow driving is fine from startup?
Or is that just a safety measure to indicate dont rev too high in the beginning but slow driving is fine from startup?
There you go.
@lonewolf: See : https://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4090
It's normal- the car doesn't have a temp gauge, so this is just the car's way of saying that it is not warmed up yet. No worries!
BTW, do not warm up the car by idling- warm it up by driving (but don't rev the hell out of it).
Toyota is specifically warning folks about this.
I don't have Toyota manual but apparently there is a warning against doing this!
Remember the times where we had to let diesel engines heat up before staring :D
They still have glow plugs, but aren’t really necesssry until it gets proper cold.
cancel his rego
Install a continuous refuelling system and leave it idling all day every day. Buy a bigger fuel reserve and run it with the accelerator depressed.
Idling will just get the engine warm as the oil is still being cycled within the engine. Idle maybe 5 mins?
However, you're better to drive it around the block as it; rotates the tires, charges the battery and also rotates or moves mechahnical parts like bearings and/or hydraulics.
Don't get me started on motorcycle riders. There seems to be a cultural thing that you start your bike, and then while you put on your hear (helmet, gloves, jacket) you let it idle.
For the same reasons that have been discussed above for cars, this is not necessary - you're just wasting fuel and time.
Sure, don't completely fang it while it's cold - just drive/ride normally.
Doesn’t ‘ride normally’ for a motorcyclist mean fanging it? It might be better to say for the first 10 minutes or so until the motor warms up, ride with the flow of other road users, after that just ride normally.
Suggest opening a door or window first if you do…