Man Chasing Teens Who Stole His Car Charged Multiple Times

cameldownunder on 03/11/2020 - 11:27

This is the news
https://au.news.yahoo.com/teens-killed-in-fatal-stolen-car-c…

3 teens stole a car, and the owner chases them in another car ( probably second car )

Now it seems he gets charged "The man has been charged with Dangerous driving occasioning death – drive manner dangerous, Dangerous driving occasioning grievous bodily harm – drive manner dangerous and Negligent driving (occasioning death)."

Why is it now his fault, when the teens stole his car, and smashed into a pole ?

I heard from my son, that some kids, on L plates ( of course not displaying them ) get a thrill by driving 100km/h on straight roads ( don't think highways )

I also know of another kid, that has been caught driving his parents car with friends without having a license ( not even a learner one ), who got away with not even a warning.

Does that mean that you better not chase the thieves ?

Why is the police so lenient with Kids and Cars ?

Automotive

Comments

        • ThithLord on 03/11/2020 - 14:20

          So why did you ask the question? FMD you guys can't think two minutes ahead of yourselves.

    • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 13:32
      +19

      Come on yous, they was good boys, they needed a ride to get to church on time. Never done nuffin wrong before, turning their lives around they were.

      • Zachary on 04/11/2020 - 14:11

        is that a bit of british i hear?

    • Eeples on 03/11/2020 - 23:30
      -1

      Every day I’m reminded of the toxicity of this place with posts like this one.

      • [Deactivated] on 03/11/2020 - 23:48
        +1

        Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

        • Eeples on 04/11/2020 - 18:29
          +2

          Sure. You can think 'good riddance' to the death of 15 and 17 year old brothers and imply that because their mother says 'yous' then somehow this tragedy is somehow a good thing or justified??

          You have no sympathy for the mother who needs to endure the death of two sons.

          If you (and others) can't see how disgusting that is; then you can't see it.

          You ought to be ashamed.

      • TilacVIP on 04/11/2020 - 09:11
        +1

        Yet you're still here. ? is the question?

    • Jugganautx on 04/11/2020 - 06:38

      bunch of sheep amirite

  • whitelie on 03/11/2020 - 13:38
    +3

    Has it been said somewhere that the car wasn't insured? Why does everyone think it's not? He probably chased them because he wanted to give them a beat down and teach them a lesson.

  • pegaxs on 03/11/2020 - 14:41

    This news isn't related in any way to this thread is it??

    • whooah1979 on 03/11/2020 - 14:44

      No.

      The DPP isn't going to waste their time if they didn't think that they have enough evidence to secure a conviction.

    • jsrz18 on 03/11/2020 - 17:20

      hahaha

  • Deals For Days on 03/11/2020 - 15:02
    +8

    Anybody who decides to play GTA in real life - whether they stole a car, or are chasing down their own car - is a moron.

    As others have pointed out, even trained police abandon chases when it becomes a danger to the public. Frankly, I don't care if your car was stolen. It should be insured, and I don't want ANOTHER crazy on the road alongside the kids.

    Just another opportunity for more harm to random people going about their business.

    • Trioboy on 03/11/2020 - 16:22
      +3

      Unfortunately, unlike GTA you cant respawn back at the local hospital (and only lose $500 and some ammo).

  • TK Deadwalker on 03/11/2020 - 15:35
    +4

    The poor Commodore :'(

  • rambao9 on 03/11/2020 - 15:36
    +5

    It'd be interesting to see a poll and where people's allegiances lie here.

  • JungliChilli on 03/11/2020 - 15:52
    +3

    Poor guy and car.

  • Trioboy on 03/11/2020 - 16:23
    +1

    Not exactly the same thing, but one of my mates once got charged for defending himself and the store he was working. Someone walked into the store he was working in and tried to rob him. In the heat of the moment, my mate got into a scuffle. He somehow managed to disarm the robber and subdue him. The robber got injured during the process. The whole thing was caught on CCTV. Police initially charged my friend for causing grievous bodily harm (cant remember the exact term) and something else. He had to go through the whole process to get himself cleared.

    • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 16:29
      +15

      Australia's self defence laws are rubbish.

    • whooah1979 on 03/11/2020 - 16:34
      +1

      All frontline retail workers are trained to follow CODE A. Your friend didn't follow their training.

  • SickMyDuck on 03/11/2020 - 16:24
    +3

    May be he was charged because his pursue caused the dead of others. Like any other mentioned, being a vigilante is dangerous.

    I dont have sympathy for the theives and loathe for the theives' parents for not discipline their kids.

  • Joney on 03/11/2020 - 19:03
    +6

    Let's assume the owner didn't break any road rules during the pursuit, for arguments sake. He didn't exceed the speed limit, didn't run any red lights etc. But the act of him pursuing the criminals led to them crashing, is he still at fault? Say for example, someone breaks into your home while you're out. While they're in the middle of pulling your 65" TV off the wall, you walk through the front door, startling the robber, which causes them to drop the TV and injure themself. Your actions directly caused this person to get hurt. But is it your fault? Are you getting charged? This bloke didn't crash the car, the criminals did. This is rediculous.

    • AustriaBargain on 03/11/2020 - 19:20

      He chose to put those kids in an even more dangerous situation than they were already in, and that added danger played out just as you'd expect, and maybe just as he hoped in the heat of the moment. But even if he never intended it, he still chose to cause the situation. he would have had to grab his keys, run to his car, start it up, so it was premeditated. This guy is really screwed. He already told the truth to the police about what he did, he didn't think to hire a lawyer to invent a series of lies to navigate all the laws he broke. He's done like dinner. He may as well sell his house now to help pay for the legal fees to shave a few years off.

      • Joney on 03/11/2020 - 19:26
        +4

        The point is, how can we be held responsible for how someone else reacts? Image it was a stolen wallet at the beach, and not a car. You chase the thief on foot, and they run into the road, get hit and die?

        • AustriaBargain on 03/11/2020 - 19:30
          +2

          Exactly. Even though those kids broke the law, they can't be held responsible for what a grown ass man chose to illegally do in that moment. Having your car stolen is not a valid defense to speeding, reckless driving, child endangerment, etc. Why on Earth would it be? Look these kids are dead, the police don't charge dead people so it seems very cold to say "ooo why can't these kids be held responsible too". They dead mate. If they were a live they surely would be charged, but they aren't alive. Those kids are in those red body bags being hauled into the ambulance on the Channel 7 website. Any path to justice against them for stealing a car without permission ended with their heartbeats.

          • StickMan on 03/11/2020 - 19:32
            +2

            @AustriaBargain: The dude actually had the legal right to detain the kids. It’s in law. You have to prove in court he had ill intent. Your comments are ridiculous.

            • AustriaBargain on 03/11/2020 - 19:35

              @StickMan: I do believe the police have plans on taking this to court and arguing their case. You don't have to prove ill intent to charge someone with a crime, good god man what do you think you can get away with?

              • StickMan on 03/11/2020 - 19:36

                @AustriaBargain: Exactly, a charge means nothing whatsoever. It literally only means “we the cops think the guy did x, off to court we go”

                That’s it.

                • AustriaBargain on 03/11/2020 - 19:37

                  @StickMan: From your point of view the guy has nothing to worry about, he may as well tap dance into court. Maybe you should offer to be his representation in court, sounds like a slam dunk. EZ money.

                  • StickMan on 03/11/2020 - 19:46
                    +1

                    @AustriaBargain: No from my point of view the guy is toast. People and media play on the hysterics of “young troubled kids” and the guy now has to prove he’s innocent instead of the other way around.

                    All prosecution has to do is claim that his chasing was excessive and he’s done. You can’t prove otherwise.

                    • AustriaBargain on 03/11/2020 - 19:55

                      @StickMan: He's the one who was chasing them at high speed when they died, so yeah he's the one who needs to prove he's innocent. If he is innocent then all the investigation the police have yet to do will turn up nothing, the guy has nothing to worry about it. He may as well take up tap dancing right now.

                    • Joney on 03/11/2020 - 19:55
                      +8

                      @StickMan: Alternatively, they kid crashed because he was operating a vehicle he was neither qualified, nor experienced enough to operate. Not because he was being persued. Do you really think these kids were going to carefully drive the car until it ran out of fuel, and then park it? They were going to crash, it had nothing to do with the fact that someone else was persuing them. There is no reason they would not have crashed. They were inexperienced and unlicensed. Can't prove undoubtedly that it was the owners fault they crashed.

                      • StickMan on 03/11/2020 - 19:57
                        +1

                        @Joney: Wrong quotes person, I agree with you haha

                      • AustriaBargain on 03/11/2020 - 19:59

                        @Joney: Except he didn't manage to kill all three, one of the witnesses survived. He can't pull a George Zimmerman.

                        • Joney on 03/11/2020 - 20:00
                          +3

                          @AustriaBargain: He didn't kill anyone.

                        • Joney on 03/11/2020 - 20:03
                          +2

                          @AustriaBargain: Look, he wasn't persuing the vehicle to cause harm to three young boys, he was persuing the vehicle because it was his car! Assuming he has no prior history of molesting kids, it should be pretty easy to establish that his interest was not the children. Regardless of who was in the car, I suspect he would have still followed. As such it is easily argued that any consequences were not intended.

                          • AustriaBargain on 03/11/2020 - 21:46

                            @Joney: Well like you say it’ll be pretty easy. Save those lawyer fees for some dance lessons and just relax until the trail, he’s earned it he’s been through so much. “Look what you’ve done to my ducking car” he may be wanting to shout at the bodies of the kids right now, it’s been a tough week for him. He’s got other things to worry about, like car repairs.

        • Lurk Hartog on 04/11/2020 - 11:37

          There are no laws against dangerous running. If someone steals something off you then you are perfectly entitled to run after them, or even drive after them, ensuring that you obey the road rules.

          Someone stealing something off you does not allow you to break the road rules in order to follow them. Presumably this is exactly what happened in this case.

        • Baghern on 04/11/2020 - 18:23

          same reason why the police abandon a chase if it gets too dangerous or too fast

          Being a victim doesnt put you above the law

  • AustriaBargain on 03/11/2020 - 19:17
    -3

    He chased them because he was mad, the speed at which the chase occurred was up to him. Yes the kids may have burned his car out when they were done with it or whatever, but they didn't deserve to be forced into a high speed chase which you would think, and did, lead to their deaths. That isn't justice. If he really cared about the car itself why was putting it in a position to be wrapped around a pole so important to him? Because he couldn't let those kids get away with it? Well he saw to it that they didn't get away with it. And he'll have, depending how old he is, the rest of his life to debate the merits of his position with his cell mate. Whilst his reputation gets trashed on the outside by two grieving families and the press. Now that is inching a little closer to true justice.

    • StickMan on 03/11/2020 - 19:23
      +9

      No one forced the kids to do anything. They could have not ran.

      Or they could have not stolen the car.

      • AustriaBargain on 03/11/2020 - 19:26
        +5

        It's not really up to this guy what is done to other law breakers is it now. He could have done what any of us would have done, call the police and file a report. He chose to play speed-racer with this kids in order to suddenly stop them with his car somehow. Welp he sure got what he wanted, they stopped alright. Whether or not he cheered with excitement when they crashed doesn't matter, the fact that he chose to create the situation in the first place is the only thing that matters. These kids didn't have mind control powers, they didn't choose to drive him into such a deadly rage. He chose that himself.

        • StickMan on 03/11/2020 - 19:27
          +4

          HE chose to create the situation? Are you skipping over the fact the kids were thieves?

          And the choice of the kids to run? And the choice of the kids to drive fast? And the choice of the kids to not slow down in a bend?

          I mean we can lay blame for all kinds of things here, but their act of thievery resulted in this mess - nothing else.

          You can also start blaming Australia for not caring about about child welfare issues etc but you’re just digging a rabbit hole.

          • AustriaBargain on 03/11/2020 - 19:31
            +4

            @StickMan: Again, there is no path for justice against those kids for taking the car, because they are dead. Police can't charge someone who is dead. Criminal code apply to the living.

            • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 19:34
              +8

              @AustriaBargain: They don't get charged anyway, they get a slap on the wrist.

              • AustriaBargain on 03/11/2020 - 19:36
                +2

                @brendanm: I think it's fair to say they received the ultimate punishment this time around. It's impossible to argue there's no justice for the man who killed them, no outcome for their actions, when the kids who stole his car are cooling as we speak.

                • StickMan on 03/11/2020 - 19:40
                  +2

                  @AustriaBargain: Can’t exactly learn your lesson when you’re dead. And now they are martyrs for their shitty family and for people like you.

                  “Oh won’t somebody think of the children”

                  Shit happens in shitty situations. If he beat them up all the way to death, it’s pretty clear he’s in the wrong.

                  The real key is to avoid shitty situations.

                • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 19:41
                  +1

                  @AustriaBargain: That is on them, they chose this path. Everyone knows that it's dangerous to do this sort of thing. As I said above, we have no idea how he followed them, whether at high speed, or simply at a distance to see where they went.

          • Baghern on 04/11/2020 - 18:11
            +1

            @StickMan: The act of thievery doesn't mean you can do anything, you still have to obey the law

            The man has been charged with Dangerous driving occasioning death – drive manner dangerous, Dangerous driving occasioning grievous bodily harm – drive manner dangerous and Negligent driving (occasioning death).

            Police themselves are suppose to pull back when it gets dangerous

        • 91rs on 03/11/2020 - 22:12
          +4

          Similar ending could have happened if they had other friends in another stolen vehicle who were racing or playing stupid games with each other.
          All of this is on the heads of the kids who stole the car, place the accountability where it belongs, stop apologizing for criminals.
          This won't stop other kids stealing cars and doing stupid things, these kinds of people will not learn and their trash parents who really shouldn't have had kids will just now play the victim that their perfect little Johnny who's probably been known to police for some time has been taken from them.
          None of this would have happened if it were not for their own actions to go out and steal someone else's car.
          Zero sympathy.

          • AustriaBargain on 03/11/2020 - 23:44
            +1

            @91rs: I'm just saying if you guys are right, then the guy has nothing to worry about. He should do one of those jumping heel clicks on his walk into court, he'll be walking on air knowing he has nothing to worry about.

  • pegasusx on 03/11/2020 - 19:18
    +4

    I saw this last night and was surprised that the man was charged. Initial gut feeling was that it was unjustified for the charges to be laid, considering the context behind it.
    But reading comments on social media / and this thread makes me even more unconfirmable that there is no sympathy for the boys. e.g. "They reserved it, good riddance / lol - no more future crimes "etc.

    Playing devils advocate now, but I mean WTHeck people! sure they did a stupid thing, probably multiple times. But really to deserve death? No chance to rehabilitate and give back to the community? Anyone want to cast the first stone that hasn't done any thing "stupid" during their teens/ young adulthood?

    • StickMan on 03/11/2020 - 19:26
      -2

      I have sympathy for the kids because they are dumb little idiots and maybe eventually they would realise the things they are doing are not good.

      I also have sympathy for them dying as they are human beings.

      My sympathy stops when you realise they were driving at high speed and endangering other lives on the road, and by extension their whole situation is because they decided to thieve- which is a life/death gamble on their part as soon as they made the decision to steal.

      Basically, IMO, sucks they died. It is however an unfortunate possible consequence of their actions.

    • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 19:39
      +13

      I never said they deserved death. I said it is their choice to do what they did, and they suffered the consequences, also that it's no great loss, as they will likely never contribute in a positive way to society.

      • StickMan on 03/11/2020 - 19:43
        +5

        This. If you take emotion and the hysterics about “young children” out of it it’s a really simple logical exercise.

        Actions have consequences. Sometimes those consequences are really really bad, and sometimes they seem over the top in relation to the initial action. But if you don’t take the action, you don’t trigger the consequence.

      • Speckled Jim on 04/11/2020 - 08:32
        +2

        likely never contribute in a positive way to society.

        Nah, crystal-balling assumption on your part.
        Stephen Fry was a petty crook and sometime car thief when he was a teen. Sure, he's a bender but he turned out alright.

        • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 08:54
          +1

          1 out of a few hundred million isn't bad odds I suppose.

          • Speckled Jim on 04/11/2020 - 09:26
            +2

            @brendanm: Right. Hardly anyone does stupid things as a kid.

            • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 09:32

              @Speckled Jim: I did plenty of stupid things as a kid. Never stealing personal property though. There's stupid, and then there's immoral and illegal, and negatively affecting others

              • Speckled Jim on 04/11/2020 - 09:39
                +2

                @brendanm: So by your reductive logic, the limit of "stupidity" is when it crosses into illegality.
                Okaaaaaay!

                • payton on 04/11/2020 - 09:48

                  @Speckled Jim: Making apologies for criminals is peak stupidity.

                  • Speckled Jim on 04/11/2020 - 10:14
                    +3

                    @payton: I make no apologies for the adult vigilante, and the system will deal with him.

                    To suggest all kids who do stupid — sometimes illegal — things are a lost cause, well that's not fair play.

                • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 11:45
                  -1

                  @Speckled Jim: Well, there's illegal, and then there is theft of a motor vehicle. As it's a lateish model commodore, you can't "hotwire" them, so to get it to start, they got the keys somehow, most likely by breaking into his house.

                  Most people won't choose break and enter and theft of a motor vehicle as their first foray into criminality, so it's very likely they've done many other illegal things leading up to this.

                  This is someone's property that they likely worked hard for, stolen by some little pricks for a bit of "fun"?

                  Stealing a chocolate from Coles as a kid is not the same as this, surely you can see that?

                  • Speckled Jim on 04/11/2020 - 13:31
                    +2

                    @brendanm: Wow, so many assumptions on your part. Link us your published works.

                    you can't "hotwire" them

                    Ok then, here's an assumption of my own:
                    They opportunistically piled into the car while the owner had it idling. Or the kids lived locally and knew where a spare key was stashed in the garden. Maybe they'd seen him washing the car one Sunday, struck up a conversation and owner bragged about the you-beaut keyless start he wired in.
                    Who the hell knows? It's all speculation.

                    Bottom line, and scientific fact not open to speculation: As teenagers, their prefrontal cortexes lack the development for good decision making or impulse control, so a poor decision was made.
                    What excuse does a 37 year old "man" have? It's said age brings wisdom, but it requires a decent foundation.

                    • Willco88 on 04/11/2020 - 13:32
                      +1

                      @Speckled Jim: Exactly, children are expected to make mistakes, no car is worth killing children over

                      • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 14:14
                        +2

                        @Willco88: Stealing a car isn't a "mistake", it's a premeditated act.

                        • Willco88 on 04/11/2020 - 14:21
                          -1

                          @brendanm: SO IS MURDER

                          • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 14:25

                            @Willco88: You may want to lay off the caps lock, and look up what murder means.

                            • Willco88 on 04/11/2020 - 14:31

                              @brendanm: Causing death

                              • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 14:34

                                @Willco88: Try again. You are on the internet, use Google.

                                A guy who literally ran over a kid who stole a motorbike didn't even get manslaughter. Ended up being dangerous driving causing death. This has no hope of getting anywhere near that.

                    • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 14:04

                      @Speckled Jim: Ok then mate.

                    • gromit on 04/11/2020 - 19:22

                      @Speckled Jim: bottom line and not open to speculation. Stealing a car is a crime NOT a mistake. They didn't deserve death, but they only have themselves to blame.

                    • brendanm on 06/11/2020 - 14:33

                      @Speckled Jim: Ever heard of Occam's razor? Your little story makes it seem like you haven't.

  • Cave Fire on 03/11/2020 - 20:33
    -4

    People supporting no charges for the driver are basically supporting death penalty for car theft. And it's not just one person, it's three people. Over a car… The system of youth court is partially to blame.

    • bmerigan on 03/11/2020 - 23:21
      +3

      There's every chance they would have crashed even if the guy stayed home. Kids joyriding are hardly skilled drivers.
      I'm confident in saying they would have enjoyed some high speed driving and burnouts before crashing or torching the car.

    • Hellish on 04/11/2020 - 00:49
      +2

      "People supporting no charges for the driver are basically supporting death penalty for car theft."

      This way of thinking is flawed. Had the kids been pursued by the cops instead of the owner of the car, they most likely would be in the same situation hugging a tree or lamp post. They didn't even know how to drive, which just makes things even more stupid.

      Genuinely feel bad for the owner getting charged. I can't imagine a lot of folks would just watch their property get stolen without trying to get it back, even if it were insured.

      Those kids would have wound up dead one way or another. I don't feel an ounce of sorrow for those kids.

      • ThithLord on 04/11/2020 - 16:17

        This way of thinking is flawed. Had the kids been pursued by the cops instead of the owner of the car, they most likely would be in the same situation hugging a tree or lamp post.

        You know, except for the part where Police constantly abandon high-speed car chases due to the danger to the public. But continue on your rant condemning kids to death for stealing a car.

  • Vote for Pedro on 03/11/2020 - 20:44
    +3

    As much as we want vengeance, his life was not threatened and he chose to chase them and his ensuing actions resulted in death.

    It is right that he be charged and the courts decide his fate.

    • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 21:11
      +10

      Oh my, how do you know his actions lead to their deaths, when you have no idea what actually happened? Completely baseless assumption, based solely on "feelings".

      • Lachy2437 on 04/11/2020 - 10:20
        +4

        The police have decided there is an argument that his actions contributed to their deaths and that he has broken the law. The courts will decide the fact.

        • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 11:50
          +2

          Correct. There have been many, many, many occasions when people have been charged with something, and cleared in court, so to assume his is guilty simply because he has been charged is foolish.

          • Vote for Pedro on 04/11/2020 - 15:50
            +2

            @brendanm: Yes yes sure, add the word ‘allegedly’.

            But I’m sure based on my comment that the court should decide would to the ordinary person indicate that it was a missed word and that I was not making a call.

            But this is a prime example of a diversion argument.

            Further, had he not given chase, would they have died? It’s for the court to decide.

            • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 16:39

              @Vote for Pedro: We don't know either way, hence people making flat out certain allegation here is a bit silly. It would be different if we had footage of him doing something, but there is literally no evidence.

              • Vote for Pedro on 04/11/2020 - 16:59

                @brendanm: I love the use of “we shouldn’t jump to conclusions” and “we should rely on facts and evidence” when it suits a certain viewpoint. Other times when it doesn’t it’s all “scientists are all in on the conspiracy” or “its all fake news and woke lefties”. But I digress.

                • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 17:08

                  @Vote for Pedro: This is a criminal case, it's literally how it works. It's someones life.

                  My personal thoughts on something that affects me, are mine, and I can choose to make them however I see fit.

                  • Vote for Pedro on 04/11/2020 - 17:13
                    +1

                    @brendanm: Yes. I support your right to an opinion even if it’s not based on evidence or fact.

                    • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 17:19
                      -1

                      @Vote for Pedro: I support your need to follow me around and bring up things from months ago that have nothing to do with the subject at hand. Glad we could be friends 😘

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