Man Chasing Teens Who Stole His Car Charged Multiple Times

cameldownunder on 03/11/2020 - 11:27

This is the news
https://au.news.yahoo.com/teens-killed-in-fatal-stolen-car-c…

3 teens stole a car, and the owner chases them in another car ( probably second car )

Now it seems he gets charged "The man has been charged with Dangerous driving occasioning death – drive manner dangerous, Dangerous driving occasioning grievous bodily harm – drive manner dangerous and Negligent driving (occasioning death)."

Why is it now his fault, when the teens stole his car, and smashed into a pole ?

I heard from my son, that some kids, on L plates ( of course not displaying them ) get a thrill by driving 100km/h on straight roads ( don't think highways )

I also know of another kid, that has been caught driving his parents car with friends without having a license ( not even a learner one ), who got away with not even a warning.

Does that mean that you better not chase the thieves ?

Why is the police so lenient with Kids and Cars ?

Automotive

Comments

      • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 12:39
        +54

        He has stopped a lot of future crime.

          • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 14:27
            +16

            @DashCam AKA Rolts: Hardly. As has been said, if they weren't stealing cars, this wouldn't have happened. They would likey have continued on with a life of theft and general degeneracy. While supported by the taxpayer, and given a slap in the wrist by the courts.

            • DashCam AKA Rolts on 03/11/2020 - 16:25
              -3

              @brendanm: But he did beak laws pursuing them, He was endangering other road users by giving chase.
              As has been said in other comments here, the police will call off a pursuit and they have specific training for such events.
              Don't misunderstand my point, I'm not sympathizing or down playing the behaviour of the thieves, having nearly being hit years ago by a car fleeing police.
              My point remains, he should not have given chase.
              What was he going to do if they chose to laugh at him and keep going? Force them off the road and damage both his cars? Why would they take any notice of him? Would they stop because he said so, then yield the vehicle? Hardly.

              • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 16:31
                +4

                @DashCam AKA Rolts: Have you seen footage that we haven't of the "pursuit"? How fast did he go? What did he do that endangered other road users?

                • DashCam AKA Rolts on 03/11/2020 - 16:39
                  +2

                  @brendanm: Did he follow? Yes. Therefore, he pursued them.
                  Did they crash at high speed? Yes. Therefore if he was able to follow them he must have been driving at a commensurate speed to be able to follow.
                  Was he a trained police driver? Appears not to be the case.
                  Therefore: he was putting other road users at risk, unless the roads were closed to other traffic.

                  • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 16:42
                    +6

                    @DashCam AKA Rolts: Looks like I pursue people everyday on the way to work. Last I checked, it wasn't illegal to drive behind someone. I'll wait for the facts of what actually happened.

                  • 91rs on 03/11/2020 - 19:36
                    +4

                    @DashCam AKA Rolts: The thieves could have stopped and exited the vehicle at any stage, they didn't have to steal the car, they didn't have to flee and put anyone at risk over their inability to a) be a productive member of society and b) drive at high speeds on public roads.

                    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 03/11/2020 - 19:57
                      -2

                      @91rs: The thieves owner could have stopped and exited the vehicle at any stage, they he didn't have to put anyone at risk by driving at high speeds on public roads.

                      • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 21:02
                        +3

                        @DashCam AKA Rolts:

                        he didn't have to put anyone at risk by driving at high speeds on public roads.

                        Citation required

                        • DashCam AKA Rolts on 03/11/2020 - 21:07
                          +3

                          @brendanm: He received several, from the police. https://legalbeagle.com/6139194-traffic-citation.html

                          is a summons issued by a law enforcement officer to a person accused of committing a traffic offense

                          • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 21:14
                            -3

                            @DashCam AKA Rolts: A good try at humour, but it ultimately fails for a couple of reasons.

                            1) We aren't in America, that's not an Australian term.

                            2) You tried to deflect from having no base for your claims, absolutely zero actual evidence.

                            So, want to share with us your source for his "high speed" driving?

                        • DashCam AKA Rolts on 03/11/2020 - 21:12
                          +1

                          @brendanm: Do you really believe the police would issue such serious charges without some belief that they held sufficient evidence to mount a case?
                          The charges that the police have brought against him are based on this exact idea.

                          • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 21:15
                            +4

                            @DashCam AKA Rolts: Yes, yes I do. Look at that idiot who got pulled over in his Porsche, when those cops got crushed by a truck. They charged him with everything under the sun, as if he personally choked the life out of them. He is a scumbag, but he isn't guilty of half the things they charged him with, and lots of the charges have already been dropped.

                      • Caped Baldy on 03/11/2020 - 23:14

                        @DashCam AKA Rolts: You don't steal an SS Commodore to drive the speed limit.

                • whooah1979 on 03/11/2020 - 16:40

                  @brendanm: It has been reported that the owner chased them for 20km.

                  • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 16:42
                    +2

                    @whooah1979: As above. It's certainly not above the media to change "followed them at a distance" into "chased for 20km".

              • RockyRaccoon on 03/11/2020 - 16:32
                +2

                @DashCam AKA Rolts: You are making an assumption, that he was following them closely etc. Its all alleged, so let the law sort it out.

                • DashCam AKA Rolts on 03/11/2020 - 16:43

                  @RockyRaccoon: I think the fact that he was charged indicates that he wasn't merely following in a safe manner to be able to give information to the police.

                  • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 16:44
                    +5

                    @DashCam AKA Rolts: Yes, no one has ever been charged before while being innocent.

                    • whooah1979 on 03/11/2020 - 16:45
                      +1

                      @brendanm: It will get sorted out in court.

                      • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 16:47
                        +1

                        @whooah1979: Correct, people making claims as to how he drove here are literally just assuming.

                        • whooah1979 on 03/11/2020 - 16:50

                          @brendanm: It'll be an expensive lesson at >$1.5k per day in legal fees.

                          • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 16:56
                            +3

                            @whooah1979: Hopefully if it gets that far, and he is found not guilty, he will be awarded costs.

              • jatyap on 04/11/2020 - 15:31

                @DashCam AKA Rolts: He didn't endanger other road users in this case… He endangered the thieves. I hope he gets off fine.

                • DashCam AKA Rolts on 04/11/2020 - 15:33

                  @jatyap: Was the road totally empty of other users, other than the car thieves?

                  • jatyap on 04/11/2020 - 15:46

                    @DashCam AKA Rolts: Dunno… Hope so, so that the police need to drop the charges… If you find any video, let me know.
                    I'd probably change my mind a bit if he actually ran them off the road, but still, in my mind, it was their first move that caused their deaths.
                    And… if it were a choice between thieves and property owner. I know who I'm rooting for.

                    • Willco88 on 04/11/2020 - 15:48
                      +1

                      @jatyap: So what the kids are totally responsible and the man has no culpability at all???? Bull

                      • jatyap on 04/11/2020 - 15:51
                        +1

                        @Willco88: TLDR: Something of mine gets stolen, it's not a crime to follow the thief.

                        Like I said, have no video… so will have to clarify if it gets released.

                        Assuming he was just following them (and not running them off the road), as somebody else said, there is no crime in that. If he broke some traffic laws, he should get charged for those… To blame their deaths on him would be a bit unfair.

      • skid on 03/11/2020 - 12:42
        +3

        Here's a video of his car before the crash

        https://youtube.com/watch?v=z2DRnmw-aCE

        • ThithLord on 03/11/2020 - 13:20

          Oh that's the drivers car! Interesting.

        • 91rs on 03/11/2020 - 19:38
          +5

          I see worse every day on the road by tradies with P plates.

        • bmerigan on 03/11/2020 - 23:07
          +2

          That's an exciting video!

        • Zachary on 04/11/2020 - 14:01

          That could have been someone else's car who happens to have the exact same car and plates…..

  • mick123 on 03/11/2020 - 12:44
    +24

    Charges should be dropped and insurance company should claim the funds from the 3 boys' family.

    The thieves' actions caused their deaths, not the man's "dangerous driving".

    • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 12:51
      +9

      claim the funds from the 3 boys' family.

      Ever tried to get blood from a stone?

      • RockyRaccoon on 03/11/2020 - 17:35

        Or a bro

        • capslock janitor on 05/11/2020 - 21:47

          in some countries, better to pay for the funeral than their rehab

    • whooah1979 on 03/11/2020 - 12:57
      -5

      The owner shouldn't have followed the stolen vehicle. They should've called their insurer and filed a claim.

      • Tech5 on 03/11/2020 - 13:03
        +19

        The owner didn't force them to speed or crash the car. Nor, as far as the article says, did he ram them into the pole.

        • whooah1979 on 03/11/2020 - 13:05

          The DPP disagrees.

          • Tech5 on 03/11/2020 - 19:26
            +1

            @whooah1979: I would agree with a previous poster. It is a matter of procedure and will be dropped or found not guilty

      • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 13:17
        +13

        Kids shouldn't have stolen the car.

        • ThithLord on 03/11/2020 - 13:20
          -3

          Noooo, ya think?

          • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 13:25

            @ThithLord: So, if they had not stolen the car, would they be dead?

        • ThithLord on 03/11/2020 - 13:21

          By the way, ski linked a video of said driver (two yrs ago): https://youtube.com/watch?v=z2DRnmw-aCE

          • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 13:25
            +6

            @ThithLord: Well, I've changed my mind. If the guy cut off a Pantech truck changing lanes 2 years ago, he deserves to have his car stolen. Absolute scumbag.

              • [Deactivated] on 03/11/2020 - 13:34
                +24

                @ThithLord:

                2 scum trash that don't contribute to society are dead because of their actions

                FTFY

                • ThithLord on 03/11/2020 - 14:21
                  -7

                  @[Deactivated]: lol death is TOTALLY an ideal punishment for stealing of property, and dealt by a vigilante to boot. Do you listen to yourself?

                  • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 14:28

                    @ThithLord:

                    lol

                    Hardly a laughing matter.

                    • ThithLord on 03/11/2020 - 14:29
                      -2

                      @brendanm: so… so you're happy they're dead, they got what they deserve, but you're gonna pull me up on using lol sarcastically because that's beneath you?

                      Your moral compass swings in roundabouts, but we already knew that.

                      • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 14:30
                        +6

                        @ThithLord: It was a joke. I'm well aware of how/why you wrote it.

                        My moral compass is actually pretty simple, if you put yourself in a situation, it's your fault what comes of it.

                        I also never said I was happy that they are dead.

                  • jatyap on 04/11/2020 - 15:39

                    @ThithLord: not dealt by a vigilante. Whole chain started with them stealing the car.

                    If they had not crashed, and the owner caught up to them, I doubt he would have killed them.
                    All their fault, and I can understand the owner made mistakes but it was due to the fact that he was victimized.

                • Lachy2437 on 04/11/2020 - 06:10
                  +3

                  @[Deactivated]: 2 kids. Maybe you have been perfect your whole life. Probably grew up on the streets without a single role model and grifted and grafted until you were rich and successful without taking a wrong step on the way. Other kids do make mistakes though, and it IS sad if they die. The fact you have so little regard for someone because of a poor decision they made reflects really poorly on you as a person and is a greater sign of the degradation of our community and society than a couple of kids stealing a car.

              • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 13:34
                +22

                @ThithLord: No, they are dead because of their actions. No wonder we have so many delinquent little shits everywhere, so many enablers.

        • whooah1979 on 03/11/2020 - 13:28
          -1

          Yes, but that is now in past.

          The owner is an adult. Adults are expected to use common sense and make adult decisions. This didn't happen and the owner is now facing serious criminal charges.

          Don't be the hero. Be the other guy that gets to go home, safely.

          • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 13:31
            +19

            @whooah1979: He got to go home safely. I personally wouldn't do what he has done, my cars are insured so I don't care. However, the owner didn't force them to steal the car, didn't force them to speed, and didn't force them to hit a pole. That is on them, and the extremely high likelihood of their lack of values being handed to them from their parent/s.

            • this is us on 04/11/2020 - 09:59

              @brendanm: I agree with everything except the parents part as we don't have enough information. Also, it's not like there is an easy recipe to raise good and responsible children.

              Yes, you don't spoil… Yes, you provide education and moral values… But it's like when you are following a messy recipe and find one particular item that has to be prepared overnight, or days before… In this case, years before…

              1. Pre-heat the oven at 200 degrees.
              2. Mix the eggs, flour, salt, and the mixture described on Appendix 34…

              Shit!

              Appendix 34: How to make the magic mixture:
              Leave the olives, extra virgin olive oil, capsicum, and the oregano leaves in a bowel covered with foil in the fridge for three days.

              *I'm sorry if the recipe looks bad, I'm not a cook. Don't try that at home.

              My point is that even the simple "don't spoil your children" is far too complex. Not every parent know how to raise people with secure attachment. Many parents mess up when trying to to their best because there is no clear or right way of doing that. Plus, no one in our society needs to be taught that stealing a car is wrong. When someone does something wrong or stupid, they accept the possible consequences.

              • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 14:42

                @this is us: When the mother posts on Facebook saying "miss yous, see yous in the morning", it's fairly obvious. I doubt the kids were spoilt, it's far more likely they were raised on the taxpayers dime.

            • Baghern on 04/11/2020 - 18:16

              @brendanm: Being charged, tells us he didnt just chase them… he was reckless about it enough that he is being charged.

              Being a victim doesn't absolve you of the law

          • Hellish on 04/11/2020 - 00:39
            +1

            @whooah1979: I can't imagine a lot of people, just idly watching by as someone steals something from them, especially if said thieves were kids.

      • StickMan on 03/11/2020 - 13:26
        +1

        File a claim and wait a month or more for police to deem it lost? Or assist in catching the perps and getting car processed ASAP?

        • whooah1979 on 03/11/2020 - 13:29
          +4

          Or assist in catching the perps and getting car processed ASAP?

          How did that work out?

          • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 13:31
            +5

            @whooah1979: Car has been stolen and written off, easy payout.

            • jatyap on 04/11/2020 - 15:41

              @brendanm: Except that it's not that easy to get Holdens anymore… and if the owner had an attachment to that car, would have been a massive loss..

          • StickMan on 03/11/2020 - 13:36
            +10

            @whooah1979: Pretty good really, car is write off so doesn't even need to spend months getting 'repaired'. The only bad news is cops don't like blaming dead kids so are blaming him.

    • TilacVIP on 04/11/2020 - 09:08
      +5

      What a F**** up country we live in when the law punishes one for trying to protect their possession.

      Bum & crims, the law has your back!!!

  • whooah1979 on 03/11/2020 - 12:54
    +1

    "The man has been charged with Dangerous driving occasioning death – drive manner dangerous, Dangerous driving occasioning grievous bodily harm – drive manner dangerous and Negligent driving (occasioning death)."

    WOW.

    Two wrongs don't make a right. This looks like gaol time.

    • pegaxs on 04/11/2020 - 09:09
      +4

      It does look like gaol time, but it’s going to be a hard sell for the police to prove that the owner caused the accident simply by following them. Now, if he overtook them and jammed on his brakes and they lost control trying to avoid hitting the owner and collected a tree instead, this could be different.

      Unless they can prove the owner punted the stolen car off the road and into the tree, they have nothing. It’s not illegal to follow your own stolen car.

      Some of the “driving in a manner dangerous” and “negligent driving” charges might stick, but the ones related to causing death (unless the owner actually hit the stolen car) will end up being dropped or downgraded before this even gets to court.

      • whooah1979 on 04/11/2020 - 09:24

        Cowpasture Road is a fairly busy road linking Elizabeth Dr, the Horsley Dr and Wetherill Park. There is a good chance that the police has received dashcam vids from the public.

        • pegaxs on 04/11/2020 - 09:35
          +2

          I don't doubt it. The police must know something we dont. I am still keen to know what comes of this and what comes out in the wash.

          If it's a simple chase and the kid's inexperience in driving caused their death, then the charges will mostly be dropped. Now, if more evidence comes to light that the owner ran the kids off the road in attempt to make them stop, the police case just became a little more water tight.

          But if nothing else, due to the prior record of the judicial system, the driver will plead down to much lesser charges and A Current Affair/Today Tonight will be at the court house to video the wailing mothers of the two degenerate car thieves for Facebook likes.

          • bobbified on 04/11/2020 - 15:40
            +4

            @pegaxs:

            The police must know something we don't.

            It's pretty common for the cops to throw as many charges as they can to see which one sticks.

            • pegaxs on 04/11/2020 - 18:24

              @bobbified: Absolutely agree with this. As I said above, all of these charges are due to social outrage more than what they are around any crime. It's more of a case of "Let's just throw all these charges on at the moment and work out later what ones don't apply…" or it's used as leverage to get the driver to plead guilty to lesser charges.

          • Bjingo on 04/11/2020 - 16:00
            +2

            @pegaxs: In my opinion he does not even have to ram them off the road to responsible. If he was chasing them as it has been reported I do not think he can divert the blame.

            The reason I say this is, him chasing them could be the reason for their speeding, sure its common for stolen cars to be used by hoons but due to the fact he chased them we have no idea whether they intended to hoon or not. At the very least him chasing them only worsened a bad situation. A comparison would be, if you're going for a run and a dog starts chasing you are you going to run faster?

            Of course if he was not chasing them, as in they were unaware he was driving after them then he should absolutely be considered completely innocent. Which is why they need the alive boys testimony.

            • pegaxs on 04/11/2020 - 18:37

              @Bjingo:

              The reason I say this is, him chasing them could be the reason for their speeding

              Wrong. The reason they were speeding was because of the drivers right foot on the accelerator. They could have pulled over and bailed at any time. The owner did not force the thieves to drive faster. They did that on their own volition.

              At the very least him chasing them only worsened a bad situation

              I don't disagree, but I would have done the same thing and so would many others. If someone steals my phone out of my hand, I am not going to go "oh well, lost that phone. Don't want to chase them in case they trip over.", no, I'm sure as hell going to give chase.

              Of course if he was not chasing them… he should absolutely be considered completely innocent.

              Doesn't matter. Unless what the owner did was force the thieves to take some form of evasive action (ie: owner over took and tried to side swipe them/brake check them or rammed them from behind) then the owner cannot be held liable for the decisions/lack of ability of an unknown person.

              Chasing after someone to see where they are taking your stolen items and the thief coming a cropper due to their own inability to run/ride/drive should not be up to the victim to decide.

              But, like I have said already, I want to know more about what the police have. I want to know what input the owner played. Was it just the following or was there more that the owner did? We will find out in time.

              • Bjingo on 04/11/2020 - 19:42

                @pegaxs: I think saying their foot was on the accelerator therefore the other driver did nothing is such an oversimplification. I understand he did not physically force them to push on the accelerator but inciting fear by chasing someone is a psychological force. The action of chasing, incites speeding. if I incite suicide am I off Scott free because I did not force them.

                These kids would have had no idea what the response of this person would be if they got caught would he beat the shit out of them? they had no idea so they obviously wanted to avoid that. If I had someone chasing me in a car I would sure as hell try to lose them.

                Chasing someone on foot and in a car are such different things I would not even consider them comparable. Much like how I would not compare a person punching me and hitting me with their car.

                I completely agree more information is needed before any decision can be made and we still don't even know if he was actually chasing them or just following them (I am distinguishing chasing from following by whether he matched their speed and drove recklessly or not). Plus as you mentioned was there more too it.

                • pegaxs on 04/11/2020 - 20:05

                  @Bjingo: Again, the "fear" they felt was of their own making. They were free to not speed. They were free to pull over and make a run for it. If they felt that fear, they were free to drive to a police station. They drove fast because they chose to drive fast not because of something the owner did. (And I'm not going to entertain your suicide analogy, as it has nothing to do with what went on here.)

                  kids would have had no idea what the response of this person would be if they got caught

                  Again, on this point, they could have stopped and bailed. They didn't have to speed, they chose to speed. They could have driven around at 40km/h. The owner didnt "force" them to drive way in excess of their ability.

                  Chasing someone on foot and in a car are such different things

                  No, they are not, under the circumstances. If I were to chase some kids who stole my phone out of my hand and one of the kids ran out in front of a truck, according to you, that would make me responsible for their death? I didn't steal the phone and they had every opportunity to not steal it in the first place and to either throw it or to just give it back and take the smack up the side of the head.

                  Again, there needs to be more information. If the owner merely followed them, then, I'm sorry, the onus to drive safely, within the law or at a speed applicable to your level of experience lays solely with the driver who had control of the vehicle, not with someone following them.

                  As I have said, unless the owner directly did something to cause the loss of control of the stolen vehicle (rammed, cut off, brake check, remote control take over of vehicle), following them is hardly a contributor.

                  On that point, I'm not going to spend any more time trying to convince you and you are certainly not going to convince me otherwise until more evidence on what happened has been made publicly available.

            • Zachary on 04/11/2020 - 22:09

              @Bjingo:

              Which is why they need the alive boys testimony.

              I bet once he wakes up, his gonna say something along the lines of: "I swear I had no intentions of stealing the car! He made me do it, it was the only way to escape that child rapist and molester!! He was like all big and mean and said if I dont come here, he will rape me! Please help!!!!!1"

  • Seraphin7 on 03/11/2020 - 12:58
    +23

    There is one incontrovertible fact in all of this … if they didn't steal the car, they'd still be alive. When you start acting with criminal intent, you take your life into your own hands.

    • Jugganautx on 04/11/2020 - 06:38
      +1

      In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate, yet equally important, groups..the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders.

      These are their stories.

  • orangetrain on 03/11/2020 - 13:15
    +8

    The guy chasing kids was clearly an Ozbargainer with no insurance. Get insurance, folks.

    • [Deactivated] on 03/11/2020 - 13:31
      +8

      Even with insurance, I'd make chase. I'll either catch them and make them regret stealing my car, or they'll panic under pressure and punish themselves when they crash. Either way it's a win-win situation.

      • DashCam AKA Rolts on 03/11/2020 - 14:27
        +2

        John Wick fantasy?

        • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 14:28

          Unlikely, it's hard to get guns in Australia.

          • Zachary on 04/11/2020 - 14:09

            @brendanm: Someone saved a sawed off shotgun…unfortunately he got caught and never used it…if I recall…

        • [Deactivated] on 03/11/2020 - 14:38

          Can't say I've ever seen one of his movies.

        • Zachary on 04/11/2020 - 14:08

          aw man if you could be as badass as him whilst getting your car back, that would be awesome!

      • Baghern on 04/11/2020 - 18:19
        -2

        wannabe tough guy no. 207

        Go to Jail, do not collect $200

      • smartazz104 on 04/11/2020 - 19:01

        Doesn't seem like the owner is winning currently.

  • [Deactivated] on 03/11/2020 - 13:30
    +35

    Am I the only one that reads stuff like this and thinks "good riddance"? The fact the mum uses the word "yous" tells me all I need to know about that family and their upbringing.

      • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 13:33
        +15

        Were they actually headed to their Mensa meeting, and got side tracked with the car theft?

        • Jackson on 03/11/2020 - 16:57

          They have more initiative than most kids there age clearly

          • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 17:29
            +2

            @Jackson: Stealing a car, then crashing it and dying is "initiative"?

      • [Deactivated] on 03/11/2020 - 13:37
        +6

        Go virtue signal for the trash of society on Reddit, Facebook, or Twitter. Your opinion isn't welcome here.

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