Man Chasing Teens Who Stole His Car Charged Multiple Times

cameldownunder on 03/11/2020 - 11:27

This is the news
https://au.news.yahoo.com/teens-killed-in-fatal-stolen-car-c…

3 teens stole a car, and the owner chases them in another car ( probably second car )

Now it seems he gets charged "The man has been charged with Dangerous driving occasioning death – drive manner dangerous, Dangerous driving occasioning grievous bodily harm – drive manner dangerous and Negligent driving (occasioning death)."

Why is it now his fault, when the teens stole his car, and smashed into a pole ?

I heard from my son, that some kids, on L plates ( of course not displaying them ) get a thrill by driving 100km/h on straight roads ( don't think highways )

I also know of another kid, that has been caught driving his parents car with friends without having a license ( not even a learner one ), who got away with not even a warning.

Does that mean that you better not chase the thieves ?

Why is the police so lenient with Kids and Cars ?

Automotive

Comments

    • eek on 04/11/2020 - 11:13

      I love this insurance line - "so it's insured who cares". So why should the owner have to suffer paying the excess, be without a car for a period of time, take time off work to run around to run around, and have their future premiums go up because some sorry excuse for a human wanted to break into their car?

      • Zachary on 04/11/2020 - 13:30
        +1

        he's assuming the car is of no sentimental value to the owner or that the owner is rich enough to not care of the extra excess cost….

        • nathand on 04/11/2020 - 13:48
          +2

          You live in a society with millions of people, you get the benefit of roads and public services on the other side you have to accept that there is probably going to be crime unless you want to pay more taxes and change a lot of the system in place to try and stop crime.

          Don't chase criminals your self if its just property, it puts others at danger.

          • Zachary on 04/11/2020 - 22:06
            -7

            @nathand:

            Don't chase criminals your self if its just property,

            It's just property? Sure, tell me where you live, I'll come over and steal your wife from you. Let's see how you like it when your property taken away from you.

            • pegaxs on 05/11/2020 - 10:07
              +2

              @Zachary: You stealing wives? Is there a wait list? You don’t bring them back do you? :D

              • Zachary on 03/03/2022 - 01:12

                @pegaxs: If you're giving them to me, that's not the same…. I want to take them from you when you also badly want them for yourself too.

      • Bid Sniper on 05/11/2020 - 07:51
        -1

        Aint worth a persons's life, as a parent, no parent should ever bury their child.

        Everyone makes mistakes, these kids, and lets remember that they are children, will make dumb decisions. Everyone does at that age including me. Those that didnt make even worse mistakes later in life causing more damage.

        I own a current gen Subaru STI, its my dream car, Id be pretty pissed if it was stolen. But Id be devastated if some kids died due to my actions (and rightfully charged). As far as I'm concerned, its just a car, I can always buy a new one, these are someone's children.

        • TheBilly on 05/11/2020 - 21:20

          You realise kids die everyday. Drug abuse, domestic violence, famine, war, homelessness, disease I can keep going. In Autralia and all around the world. If it matters so much, sell the rexy and buy a 3k corolla and put the difference towards a cause that stops kids from dying. Because it's just not worth owning something like that when you know you can save lives.

          As far as I'm concerned, its just a car, I can always buy a new one, these are someone's children

    • leiiv on 04/11/2020 - 22:46
      +1

      People start to take law into their hand only because the police are not responding to those cases properly.
      If the man were to report it to the police, I bet they will not do anything at all.
      Tell me, what is the rate of solved cases of break in or roberry?

      • TheBilly on 05/11/2020 - 21:12

        I have had highly sentimental things stolen from me and the police don't come and investigate the police report. They are not bothered or under resourced. I think taking matter in your own hands is fantastic the law needs to he updated.

        • leiiv on 05/11/2020 - 22:30
          +1

          I don't think it is the law per se. The police and prosecutors are cherry picking cases (they have to, considering the resources they have). I think the direction comes from the top, and it does not matter which party is in office. There must be a huge push from the electorate so that the direction becomes not to criminalise victims as much as possible, although they could be breaking the law.
          Also, the performance evaluation for police and prosecutors must be overhauled. I think it is much easier for them to charge a victim who fights back than an unknown thief who slips away.

  • Tech5 on 03/11/2020 - 11:46
    +33

    Natural selection

    • parisienne on 03/11/2020 - 20:31
      +4

      Yep…the best blend of real science meeting mystical retribution (Karma).

      • Caped Baldy on 04/11/2020 - 08:23
        +4

        All part of the lord's plan right? 🙏

      • this is us on 04/11/2020 - 08:28
        +11

        A bad decision is not taking an umbrella in a cloudy day. Stealing a car is something else.

        Not to say that everyone who steals a car should die, and I don't know much about the criminals who died in this case, but if they had a bit of humanity they wouldn't be stealing the car and threatening everyone else's lives.

      • bobbified on 04/11/2020 - 09:46
        +6

        You might have a different opinion if it was your car that they stole. Or if during their joyride, they crashed into someone you're close to.

        We're lucky that they only killed themselves this time. (And we're lucky there will be no "next time" with them!).

        • Lachy2437 on 04/11/2020 - 09:57
          -7

          I wouldn't. I don't contest that what they did was wrong and dangerous but I find it abhorrent that the group think is to straight away dehumanise. I view people as more than the worst decision they have made.

          • bobbified on 04/11/2020 - 10:11
            +4

            @Lachy2437:

            I view people as more than the worst decision they have made.

            I usually do too.
            But the victim of the theft - he's getting blamed for all of this. Unless he literally rammed them off the road (then the charges might be justifiable), you can't blame him for trying to get his property back. They're dead as a consequence of their own actions and this guy's life is ruined because everyone seems to forget that, even if found innocent by the court, he will still be out either tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal costs. At the time, the guy was innocently inside his home - no different to what you're probably doing right now. Are you going to offer to help him out?

            It's not that I don't care about the lives of the kids. I just think there is a more worthy victim in this case.

            • Lachy2437 on 04/11/2020 - 10:27
              -6

              @bobbified: He is in this situation because he decided to charge them and probably break the law rather than calling the police. Just as the kids are responsible for their decisions there are also repercussions for his actions. The courts will decide the facts and responsibilities.

              • bobbified on 04/11/2020 - 10:31

                @Lachy2437: He was sitting inside his home at the time and it's not like he just decided to get up and chase two kids who were driving down the road. They actually took his property. Like I said… unless he deliberately ran them off the road, who blame him for trying to get his property back?.

                Just as the kids are responsible for their decisions there are also repercussions for his actions.

                So why are you having a go at us for not feeling sorry for the kids then?

                • Lachy2437 on 04/11/2020 - 10:50
                  -7

                  @bobbified: You should feel sorry for the kids, 2 of them are dead and a third seriously injured. I think that kind of loss of life should be sad to you no matter where you think responsibility lay.

                  My reading of the article is that he pursued them and should have known that it would increase the risk of an accident occuring. I only have a few hundred words from the article and my own personal experience to go off, the courts will have a lot more evidence when they make a decision and may find otherwise.

                  • bobbified on 04/11/2020 - 12:14
                    +2

                    @Lachy2437:

                    I think that kind of loss of life should be sad to you no matter where you think responsibility lay.

                    Do you feel sorry for this guy too?

                    Because I don't. Again, the homeowner was innocently sitting at home minding his own business and he has had to go through hell to clear his name. And he's had to clear out his pockets for the lawyers.

                    In terms of responsibility, I note that Judge Desmond Fagan has said "Mr Batterham was permitted by law to use reasonable force to detain someone who had committed an offence and stop them from escaping until police arrived.".

                    • Lachy2437 on 04/11/2020 - 12:31

                      @bobbified: I feel for both people in that case, I feel for the victim of the robbery and Mr Slater. It is sad that somebody died too young, in that one it seems his life was lost to ice, which is an insidious drug, before he had died.

                      I don't believe the 2 cases are equivalent either, chasing someone on foot is different to in a car, even with all of the training of the police they see that distinction, a cop would run after someone to apprehend them but they have limits when it comes to car chases. The level of risk involved, particularly to third parties, is way too high and I wouldn't like there to be the precedent that it is ok for private citizens to do it. Personally, I wouldn't chase in either circumstance, I'd call the police.

                      • bobbified on 04/11/2020 - 13:52

                        @Lachy2437: I know what you're saying and I agree with you in a way. I just find it hard to feel sorry for the perpetrators when there are real victims being treated as the guilty party.

                        I don't believe the 2 cases are equivalent either, chasing someone on foot is different to in a car…

                        Both cases involve stolen property and both cases involve the rightful owners trying chasing the perp to try get their property back. While chasing someone on foot is different to chasing someone in a car, it would be a bit silly to try chase them on foot if they were escaping in a car, wouldn't it? 😜 I'm taking the piss now, but based on what we know right now, if I had to choose, I'm standing on the robbery victims' side.

                        • Lachy2437 on 04/11/2020 - 21:09

                          @bobbified: I don't think it is a sides situation, I think everyone was in the wrong.

                    • lola666 on 05/11/2020 - 06:33
                      +1

                      @bobbified: oh man that guy was very very very bad news

                • dealsucker on 05/11/2020 - 09:09

                  @bobbified: Hypothetically, what if the owner who was driving rash chasing these kids crashed and killed a couple of pedestrians? It was a very real possibility given he was breaking all sorts of traffic rules and driving at very high speeds in a car with high center of gravity?

                  • bobbified on 05/11/2020 - 09:29

                    @dealsucker:

                    Hypothetically, what if the owner….. crashed and killed a couple of pedestrians?

                    And this is my problem. Here you are, asking a hypothetical "What if?", but the cops are already charging him as though he already has killed a couple innocent of pedestrians.

                    I really want to know more details about what he actually did because we know he didn't kill a couple of pedestrians..

                    • dealsucker on 05/11/2020 - 10:30

                      @bobbified: And therefore he is not being charged for murder but traffic offences.

                      • bobbified on 05/11/2020 - 10:35

                        @dealsucker:

                        And therefore he is not being charged for murder

                        He would NOT be charged with murder even if he accidently killed a couple of pedestrians. A murder charge requires the intention to kill and at least cause grievous bodliy harm. He would charged with "dangerous driving occasioning death". Oh wait, he is being charged with that already!

                        • dealsucker on 05/11/2020 - 10:39

                          @bobbified: Charged not convicted. Who know what role did his driving played in the eventual result which caused two people to loose their lives.

      • ripesashimi on 04/11/2020 - 19:19
        +2

        My humanity in me is saying good lord plenty of lives would have been in danger if these two survive. Waiting for someone to call me wrong for siding with the innocent.

  • myusername on 03/11/2020 - 11:50

    a similar story here

    https://7news.com.au/politics/law-and-order/teenager-alleged…

    A teenage boy has been seriously injured in an alleged vigilante attack in Queensland.

    Police say a man accused the 14-year-old of breaking into his Underwood home early on Friday morning.

    The man then allegedly chased the teenager in a 4WD and ran him over.

    • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 13:44
      +8

      I bet they didn't do much investigation about his house being broken into.

        • Jugganautx on 04/11/2020 - 06:33
          +12

          Shouldn't break into houses. simple as that.

          • Lachy2437 on 04/11/2020 - 07:21
            +2

            @Jugganautx: Did he? Was he tried for it and proven so? Or was he sentenced to serious injury/possible death by a citizen who thought he did? Or do you believe that there should only be one punishment in our system, death, and it should be exacted by whoever is closest when they perceive a crime to occur?

            • jatyap on 04/11/2020 - 15:24

              @Lachy2437: Not really "Death", but the punishments should be more severe than they currently are and should be imposed more rigidly.

              The current state of the criminal justice system just encourages crime - low risk, high reward (yes, for teens, an adrenaline rush is a hell of a reward).
              Additionally, that's only looking at one side of the coin. You mean to say, that the ordinary, law-abiding property owner should not be protected by the state from such attacks on his home and property?

          • GrueHunter on 04/11/2020 - 09:23
            +4

            @Jugganautx: Also you get to just run over people you don't like then claim they tried to break into you house

            Also we save millions on having a legitimate justice system including irritating distractions like probable cause, being charged, having the right to a defence, fair trials…you know, the same stuff you'd snivel and whine about if you didn't get it

          • ozbjunkie on 04/11/2020 - 11:13

            @Jugganautx: I agree wholeheartedly. But I would also offer that you can't shoot a thief as he runs away. That's not self defence. Neither is running over a pedestrian with a 4WD.

          • Nereosis on 04/11/2020 - 15:59
            +1

            @Jugganautx: Are you serious?

            Like, actually serious?

            This is not okay. The police are the ones meant to chase criminals, not civilians.
            This whole thread is insane.

            I think Ozbargain should be written off and cast into the fire

        • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 07:04
          +5

          For sure, the safety and peace of the citizens they are meant to protect shouldn't be a priority. Don't worry about home invasions, it's all good.

          This is exactly why people take matters into their own hands.

          • Lachy2437 on 04/11/2020 - 07:34
            +2

            @brendanm: We have police to protect safety and investigate criminal activity, call them. Also, remember, we have never been safer, the break and enter and motor vehicle theft rate is a quarter of what it was in 2000, the robbery rate is down by 80%. There has never been less need to worry about home invasions than today.

            • brendanm on 04/11/2020 - 07:37
              +2

              @Lachy2437: Two comments up, you literally state that they have better things to worry about than investigating his home being broken into?

              Amazing why happens when stats aren't recorded, everything gets better.

              Edit - 22,000 in prison approx in 2000, approx 43,000 in prison in 2019. Does not compute.

              • Lachy2437 on 04/11/2020 - 07:54
                +1

                @brendanm: My reference to better things to investigate than the break and enter refers to this specific case where a much more serious crime has been committed as well. Obviously the break and enter would be part of that investigation.

                As for the statistics, you have chosen an almost completely unrelated one to prove what exactly? That sentences are longer in 2020? That the population has increased? That less people are given bail? That there is a war on drugs?

        • TheBilly on 05/11/2020 - 21:33
          +1

          I've been reading your comments and in all honesty you are very naive and idealistic. I grew up in the 80s and 90's in an extremely poor area that was crime and drug ridden. Its still bad today but not as bad. Citizens taking the law into their own hands is the only way to exist and be safe, because Police did not care or just could not help you. Its like a jungle, sort your business out before something or someone does it for you in a way you don't like.

    • eek on 04/11/2020 - 11:19
      +4

      HAHHAHAHAHAHAA, good. Hope that kid learnt their lesson.

      • Zachary on 04/11/2020 - 13:44
        +1

        He'll either learn to better himself as a burglar or not it at because his realized his not cut out for it….

  • ThithLord on 03/11/2020 - 11:52
    +12

    Driver-trained Policemen and women often have to abandon car chases because they're too dangerous to the public - why would this be any different? What if, in the chase, the civilian driver ran over a pedestrian? Is that all above board because their property was stolen? You only feel injustice here because those that died had stolen a car.

    Does that mean that you better not chase the thieves ?

    Yup. It has never, ever been advised to chase thieves. What year are you living in?

    • mapax on 03/11/2020 - 13:56
      -5

      Driver-trained Policemen and women

      What year are you living in?

      • brendanm on 03/11/2020 - 14:11
        +8

        triggering intensifies

        It's the current year!

    • trapper on 04/11/2020 - 14:05
      +2

      The police can legally break the road rules though, so that greatly increases the danger to the public.

      Whereas a civilian following a stolen car would be expected to still abide by them. (or risk the normal penalties for speeding etc)

      • Mark1159 on 04/11/2020 - 14:41
        -1

        Can break road rules, “in an emergency and only when SAFE and EXPEDIENT to do so”.

        Incident happens - wasn’t safe and expedient.

        • trapper on 04/11/2020 - 15:30

          If you quote things then provide a reference.

          • Nereosis on 04/11/2020 - 16:01

            @trapper: What even is your point anyway?

            That because trained police officers who are permitted by law to break certain traffic rules can speed that everyone else should be allowed to speed when they see fit?

            • trapper on 04/11/2020 - 16:14

              @Nereosis: My point is right above and I said nothing of the sort.

              Read carefully before you respond to people.

          • Mark1159 on 04/11/2020 - 17:00

            @trapper: Victorian Traffic Regulations when I was trained in emergency driving. First thing we were told - had to know it by heart

            • trapper on 04/11/2020 - 17:49

              @Mark1159: lol man, just admit you made it up.

              http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_reg/rsrr20172…

              ROAD SAFETY ROAD RULES 2017 - REG 305
              Exemption for drivers of police vehicles
              (1) A provision of these Rules does not apply to the driver of a police vehicle if—
              (a) in the circumstances—
              (i) the driver is taking reasonable care; and
              (ii) it is reasonable that the provision should not apply; and
              (b) if the vehicle is a motor vehicle that is moving—the vehicle is displaying a blue or red flashing light or sounding an alarm.

              • Bjingo on 04/11/2020 - 18:07

                @trapper: doesn't "(ii) it is reasonable that the provision should not apply" just mean when its safe and expedient? When else would it be reasonable?

  • sparkles on 03/11/2020 - 12:01
    +19

    If you insure your car there is no reason to chase a car thief. Wave it goodbye.

    Terrible outcome for everyone involved, but especially the two idiots who paid with their lives. Don't steal cars, kids. And especially not high powered ones you'll lose control of because you actually don't know how to drive.

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 03/11/2020 - 12:29
      +3

      If you insure your car there is no reason to chase a car thief.

      This!

      • RM on 03/11/2020 - 12:38
        +3

        and hope police doesnt recover it or it is written off

      • BobLim on 03/11/2020 - 20:35
        +10

        What if the maximum insurable value isn't enough to purchase a comparable replacement?

        • bmerigan on 03/11/2020 - 22:59
          +2

          This exactly.
          I have strong doubts I would be happy with my insurance company's outcome.

        • [Deactivated] on 04/11/2020 - 01:59
          +1

          Then it’s doubly stupid because it’s more likely to be written off in a chase vs recovered abandoned without a chase.

        • Lachy2437 on 04/11/2020 - 05:44
          +1

          How do you catch them without writing the car off trying to stop them anyway?

        • nathand on 04/11/2020 - 13:50

          Find another insurer with agreed value?

          You are not checking your insurance policy when you make the snap decision to chase someone who stole your car, surely.

          Also if you don't think you have enough insurance you should fix it now.

        • Nereosis on 04/11/2020 - 16:02

          Then you aren't insured. Simple.
          Get better coverage. This isn't rocket science.

          • BobLim on 04/11/2020 - 23:38

            @Nereosis: And if additional coverage isn't available? My car is with the maximum possible agreed value with the insurer who would allow the most, so it's as insured as it can be.

            It still wouldn't be enough to purchase a comparable replacement, so recovery (by following and knowing where it is, hopefully assisting law enforcement while doing so) is preferable to it being passed around between criminals then found burnt out in a field a month later.

            Why do home contents get insured for "new comparable replacement" value, but cars are stuck with some "market value, plus or minus a bit if you go for agreed but only within the narrow margins we allow" nonsense?

    • StickMan on 03/11/2020 - 13:25
      +8

      No reason

      There's actually a pretty long period between reporting your car stolen and getting paid out as it's deemed 'stolen forever'.

      • Seraphin7 on 03/11/2020 - 13:28
        +4

        Indeed. You need it to be found quickly and completely burnt out or otherwise unrepairable.

        • Euphemistic on 03/11/2020 - 13:46
          +19

          So chase them until they crash?

          • StickMan on 03/11/2020 - 13:49
            +8

            @Euphemistic: I mean sure, it is an option.

          • Seraphin7 on 03/11/2020 - 13:52
            +1

            @Euphemistic: Nothing to do with that. Simply, if your car is stolen, the best outcome you can hope for is the thing is found quickly in a completely written off state. Cars that have been stolen typically haven't been treated that well while out your possession.

            • Euphemistic on 03/11/2020 - 13:54

              @Seraphin7: guess you missed the point… as outlined in the original story.

      • Caped Baldy on 03/11/2020 - 13:35
        +12

        Have to pay the excess and you'd be lucky to get the insured value back, especially if you've put work into it or it's imported.

        • Mechz on 03/11/2020 - 14:37
          -6

          You're talking about less than 1% of cars on the road.

          • Zachary on 04/11/2020 - 13:49

            @Mechz: how many cars on the road are there and how many are imported or and tricked out?

    • Jackson on 03/11/2020 - 16:28

      Not sure what car he chased them in, but if they couldn't get away in an SS they definitely didn't know how to drive

      • John Dough on 03/11/2020 - 16:51
        +7

        It's pretty captain obvious they didn't know how to drive!

        • Jackson on 03/11/2020 - 16:58
          +3

          he was probably chasing in a hyundai accent

      • snajper on 04/11/2020 - 07:20

        One of the holdens big suv. Arcadia or something

        • Zachary on 04/11/2020 - 13:48

          how do u know? u were there with him?

    • 91rs on 03/11/2020 - 19:32
      +21

      Sure there is, it'd be nice to lay hands on them and teach them that there are consequences to their thieving ways.

      No doubt in the eyes of the law that's not the right way, however given how poor the police response is and how the law rarely is on the side of the victim (of car theft of home invasions - to get keys etc) these days I'd risk it just for the satisfaction and to see the look on their face when they work out they've stolen the wrong car.
      Happy to leave them in a state where they won't be able to drive another car for the rest of their lives.

      I have zero sympathy for the deceased, I have zero sympathy for their parents for not being able to either control their children or bring them up in a way that didn't turn them into thieves. I'm happy knowing they're not alive to continue doing this kinda sh!t, taking things from people who have worked for them as they're too lazy to do so.
      Unpopular opinion not doubt, but what's being done now isn't a deterrent in any real way, especially in Melbourne where car theft is through the roof.

      • bmerigan on 03/11/2020 - 23:01
        +9

        I 100% support your unpopular opinion. I don't want them around.

      • Leiothrix on 04/11/2020 - 08:08
        +3

        No sympathy for the kids is fine, they made their choices and paid for it.

        You can't blame the parents though. Great parents can turn out miserable kids and vice-versa.

        Once they're a teen their peer group is likely a bigger influence than their parents are. You can only hope that you've set a good example by then and that they find good friends.

      • GrueHunter on 04/11/2020 - 09:25

        Small man fantasizes about beating up children, is small, news at 11

        • Zachary on 04/11/2020 - 13:51
          +1

          ur just jelly his got more balls than you and a bigger dick too.

          • smartazz104 on 04/11/2020 - 18:56

            @Zachary: You had a close look or…

            • Zachary on 04/11/2020 - 22:08
              +1

              @smartazz104: Yes, yes I did and they were HHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Bigger than yours and mine - even combined!

      • Zachary on 04/11/2020 - 13:51
        +2

        I'd risk it just for the satisfaction and to see the look on their face when they work out they've stolen the wrong car.

        YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS

    • serbpie on 03/11/2020 - 19:53
      -2

      T&C of many insurers state they won't cover you if the car is found burned out.

      • Yorkshire-Man on 03/11/2020 - 21:06
        +2

        Really?

      • bobbified on 03/11/2020 - 23:58
        +1

        Since when? If it's true, it'd be interesting to hear their justification!

      • Willco88 on 04/11/2020 - 05:32
        +2

        BS fire and theft is main cover

    • jatyap on 04/11/2020 - 15:28

      Yeah, just forget about sentimental value, or anything inside that car that's irreplaceable…
      You know… GO THIEVES!

      sarcasm intended

  • plmko on 03/11/2020 - 12:05
    +4

    There is a history of attacks on property in the area, so I can understand the guy would be paranoid and aggressive when becoming a victim but what did this guy hope to achieve by chasing them down for 20 minutes.

    • pharkurnell on 03/11/2020 - 12:17
      +13

      not really sure, but maybe grab them and teach them a lesson… knowing if they were caught bty the cops and and charged, slap on the wrist and go out and do it again

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 03/11/2020 - 12:31
      +3

      but what did this guy hope to achieve by chasing them down for 20 minutes.

      He didn't get his car returned in the original condition. Lose/Lose situation.

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