Wearing a Mask When Not Mandatory to Set a Good Example to Your Own Community?

AustriaBargain on 12/01/2021 - 12:57
Last edited 12/01/2021 - 12:58

Just wondering what you guys think of wearing a mask not because you think you need one in a state where there are no community cases, but just to help normalise mask wearing. Lots of kids in the community could live in households where the adults are skeptics about the science of stopping a pandemic and where a mask is seen as silly or pointless, or an affront to their liberty to show off their pretty lips maybe. So if those kids and adults see other adults wearing a mask like it's nothing at all then it could help noramlise it in their minds. Even though the state still recommends masks and the supermarkets have signs out front recommending masks, most people don't wear them. In some other countries masks are normal, if you're sick, or if there is flu about, or you're just worried about getting sick then you put on a mask and it's totally normal, no one thinks it's any stranger than putting socks and shoes on your feet before leaving the house.

Covid probably would kill my very heavyset parents so I would wear one while out anyway.

Health & Beauty

Comments

    • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 14:14
      +11

      Why are people more narcissistic and far more idiotic now?

      Back then there was more community spirit. People lived in towns where everyone knows everyone. Now with so many people, people are just shameless. They think the few bucks they save on masks will give them a leg up whether it is investment property, crypto assets, share trading or that nice car.

      It has all the hallmarks of people who are not comfortable with themselves and either want to get air time (anti lock down, anti mask protests) or wasting time with stunts on social media.

      • yannyrjl on 15/01/2021 - 00:25

        indeed a lot more alignment of culture or putting it negatively less diversity in thoughts? Or perhaps back then people were more trusting of the government having the public's best interest (rightly or wrongly)

    • smartazz104 on 12/01/2021 - 16:19
      +1

      Oh there were the naysayers back then too.

      • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 17:39
        +3

        Unluckily for them medicine isn't as advanced as it is now.

        Unfortunately now these people usually get into ICU first because they catch it first and occupying space for those who come later.

  • brendanm on 12/01/2021 - 13:53
    +3

    very heavyset parents

    Perhaps they should look at their life choices?

    • AustriaBargain on 12/01/2021 - 13:55

      They are obsessed with it, consumes a lot of their thoughts and efforts. But even when they exercise more, they just eat more and their weight is maintained. I don't really understand food addiction myself, but it's not uncommon in Australia and the US. It's a pretty serious health crisis that I think the government should do a lot more than virtue signaling to fix, but that's something for another thread.

      • brendanm on 12/01/2021 - 16:57
        +2

        Why exactly should the government be required to stop people eating? Personal responsibility.

        • AustriaBargain on 12/01/2021 - 17:01
          +1

          If you truly believe in personal responsibility, would you mind if I sold your family members some heroin or crack cocaine? Or convinced your grandmother to give me all her money? Why should the government be required to stop people being offered these drugs when your family members should have personal responsibility to turn down deadly addicting drugs.

          • brendanm on 12/01/2021 - 17:02
            +5

            @AustriaBargain: My family members don't do drugs, and my grandmother isn't an idiot.

            Still, all your parents have to do is stop eating so much. No one else is forcing them, or coercing them.

            • AustriaBargain on 12/01/2021 - 17:05
              +5

              @brendanm: If your family member don't do drugs and your grandmother isn't an idiot, then give me their names so I can go offer them some drugs and whisper honeyed words of my not guaranteed get rich quick scheme to your grandmother. My parents could stop eating so much, but when the majority of Australians are overweight or obese, and those numbers keep rising, then "personal responsibility" doesn't quite cut it. It obviously becomes less about personal responsibility and more about being a public health crisis. If you're an adult or your parents are adults, then these statistics put good odds on you or your parents being overweight or obese too https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/health-conditions-a…

              • brendanm on 12/01/2021 - 17:07
                +4

                @AustriaBargain: Neither myself not my parents are obese. Amazing what eating everything in moderation and exercise can do.

                • AustriaBargain on 12/01/2021 - 17:27

                  @brendanm: If neither you nor your parents are overweight or obese, then you're in the minority. Which is good for you, but what about the majority of people?

                  • Scrooge McDuck on 12/01/2021 - 17:37
                    +6

                    @AustriaBargain: If people make poor decisions they can face poor outcomes. Nannying unfit people fosters new generations of unfit progeny. Natural selection has made human beings by far the most advanced species on Earth, but some want to end or even reverse that.

                    • AustriaBargain on 12/01/2021 - 17:42

                      @Scrooge McDuck: I don't think natural selection plays much of a role because we all live in relative safety and even if you are overweight or obese you can still have children. And if the majority of your fellow Australians are overweight or obese then you shouldn't have trouble finding a partner or casual encounter to make children with. It's not like we are out on the savanna and anyone who is overweight won't be able to run away from the lions or whatever, leaving just fit and lean people to populate the world. Also natural selection and eugenics have historically not been good guiding principals for how to run a society.

          • Gnostikos on 12/01/2021 - 18:07
            +5

            @AustriaBargain:

            If you truly believe in personal responsibility, would you mind if I sold your family members some heroin or crack cocaine? Or convinced your grandmother to give me all her money? Why should the government be required to stop people being offered these drugs when your family members should have personal responsibility to turn down deadly addicting drugs.

            That is the most retarded false equivalence I have ever seen. It's like you and netjock are competing for the title of the most contrived straw man argument in this thread.

            Food (even terribly processed food) is orders of magnitude less addictive and damaging to a person's health and safety (and their surrounding communities) than the prevalence of hardcore street drugs and food consumption patterns, though influenced by extraneous factors somewhat are overwhelmingly dependent on one person's willpower.

            I would wager your parents have been obese for decades now. What they haven't been is chronically addicted to heroin/meth/crack cocaine for decades because if they had been, they would have long since perished due to overdosing, drug-related violence, drug-related health complications such as infections/blood-borne diseases, starvation, forgoing basic human necessities, etc.

            The prevalence of drug manufacture, distribution and illicit consumption are dependent on so many factors outside of the control of any one person/entity and they have such a wide-ranging effect on demographics, economics, crime, culture, politics, et al that they are clearly beyond the jurisdiction or responsibility of any one individual.

            Drugs and their associated negative societal consequences not only affect users and dealers, they affect completely unconnected bystanders who never touch them. I've never heard of a news story where an innocent man was caught in the crossfire of a shoot-out due to a debt over some potatoes. I've also never heard of an epidemic of lettuce consumption that single-handedly ruined entire American cities in the 1980s.

            Trying to conflate an obesity epidemic (which by the way has only existed for the last 40 years of human existence), with the scourge of drug abuse which has had well-established harmful effects on human populations since antiquity (particularly alcohol), is a kind of pseudo-intellectual speedball of cognitive dissonance and modern feel-good moral relativism that you're probably close to OD'ing on and you should definitely get your brain pumped ASAP (assuming there is much in that cavity left).

            • AustriaBargain on 12/01/2021 - 18:24

              @Gnostikos: I think you overestimate the lethality of heroin. It's deadly stuff, but it's not like it's impossible to find someone who has been using for 30+ years without long since dying of an overdose.

              caught in the crossfire of a shoot-out due to a debt over some potatoes

              Sounds like it was food, not drugs, that they were arguing over. Unless potatoes is slang for a drug.

              drug-related health complications

              Why should people be protected from drug addiction related health complications, but not food addiction health related complications? People shooting each other over food, the many health complications that come with being overweight or obese, you're making food sound deadlier than drugs with everything you say.

              Why should it matter if an epidemic is 40 years old or 4,000 years old? If there was a killer nanobot virus spreading that could extinct humanity, would you say "we shouldn't do anything about this because nanobots have only existed for 4 years, compared to other issues humanity faces which have existed for 40,000 years"? What does the age of an epidemic matter. I'm not seeing how you're making these connections, you say these different things like they are amazing points that prove me wrong but you never establish why the age of an epidemic matters at all, you don't explain the relevance of each thing you say. It might make sense to you in the moment as you type but if you don't tell us the reasoning then it comes across as kind of random and confusing.

              • Gnostikos on 12/01/2021 - 18:44
                +3

                @AustriaBargain:

                it's not like it's impossible to find someone who has been using for 30+ years without long since dying of an overdose.

                Lol. You speak from personal experience, do you?

                I think you overestimate the lethality of heroin.

                I think you underestimate the absolutely absurd nature of the comparison between food consumption and illicit drugs that you made.

                In recent research my colleagues and I examined death in the Australian Treatment Outcome Study of heroin users, recruited in 2001. We looked at deaths over 2001-2015, causes of death, and the years of potential life lost associated with these deaths. At 2015, 12% of the cohort had died, a rate of around 1% per annum. This is 10 times the rate we would expect amongst the general population.

                Each death was associated with 28 years of life lost if we take death before age 65 as the cut-off (a conservative measure often used in disease epidemiology). Using the years life lost before average life expectancy, there was an average of 44 years of potential life lost associated with these deaths. Accidental overdose and suicide accounted for three quarters of years of life lost.

                In the US, 130 people overdose on opioids every single day. 2 out of 3 overdose deaths are due to opioids.. It kills the equivalent of a Vietnam War's worth of Americans every year and that's just opioids alone.

                But please, lecture me with your vague, unsubstantiated anecdotes and painful-to-read analogies dredged up from the mind of someone who gets off on sanctimonious mask-wearing to virtue signal to others meanwhile he can't see the problem with his obese parents failing to set a good example by doing something about their impending obesity problems and would like Daddy Gub'mint to step in on their behalf and tell all of us how to live because Mr. and Mrs. AustriaBargain really like their Cheetos and Netflix.

                Sounds like it was food, not drugs, that they were arguing over. Unless potatoes is slang for a drug.

                What in the sh*t are you talking about?

                Please cite me the figure of how many people overdose on potatoes, lettuce or prime rib, every single day?

                People shooting each other over food,

                you're making food sound deadlier than drugs with everything you say.

                Ah I see… you're being retarded.

                If there was a killer nanobot virus spreading that could extinct humanity, would you say "we shouldn't do anything about this because nanobots have only existed for 4 years, compared to other issues humanity faces which have existed for 40,000 years"? What does the age of an epidemic matter.

                Killer nanobots causing an extinction-level event now? Couldn't you have come up with an even more ridiculous analogy?

                you say these different things like they are amazing points that prove me wrong but you never establish why the age of an epidemic matters at all, you don't explain the relevance of each thing you say. It might make sense to you in the moment as you type but if you don't tell us the reasoning then it comes across as kind of random and confusing.

                Congratulations for describing what everyone feels when they subject themselves to your painful writing and inane arguments.

  • life is suffering on 12/01/2021 - 13:55
    +14

    I think in the future I will be wearing masks when Im sick or coughing etc just not to spread any of my virus

    • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 14:16
      +11

      With mask wearing Australia basically eliminated the seasonal flu

      • jv on 12/01/2021 - 14:54
        +3

        I've also not caught any colds this last year… Normally catch 2 or 3…

  • Ryanek on 12/01/2021 - 14:06
    +15

    I wear a mask even with no local cases because it's about being proactive instead of being reactive.

    • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 15:51
      +2

      proactive instead of being reactive

      Current situation is like pre COVID. Everyone believes there is a medicare safety net, until you arrive at hospital with a serious condition and the ICU beds are all taken up. Then reality hits.

      Those who deny saying there is a very few cases, problem is running out of ICU beds not number of cases.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 12/01/2021 - 14:13
    +9

    Sorry I find the consistency troubling and the public health orders very conflicting.

    Wear a mask in a shopping centre but sit at a cafe inside that same shopping centre and go wild without a mask, dine with 20 friends maskless and more if the cafe has enough square metres.

    Go to the cricket match with 10,000 other people because job security is more important than dying from Covid19.

    Standing up is risky at a restaurant or pub, so you know what - don't support local businesses - and come to my place where you can stand all you want, sing as loud as you can and mingle all night long if one chooses. If you want to dance, I will play some videos of Tomorrowland music festival and we can go to the left, left, left and then right, right right - 5 guests at a time.

    Try social distancing on public transport like the light rail and theoretically you are breaking the health orders everytime you try to get to and from your front line work.

    • payton on 12/01/2021 - 15:23
      +2

      I find the consistency troubling and the public health orders very conflicting.

      IMO its about balancing the rules to a reasonable level, so that majority of people will follow it, and no doubt some 'economic' considerations.
      The rule about wearing a mask while driving alone copped enough flak that Annastacia Palletjack decided to scrap it after a few days.

      Likewise with removing mask while you're sitting down to eat, if you keep wearing them while eating you will look like this

      • SlavOz on 23/01/2021 - 09:38
        +1

        Reasonable according to the who? The government?

        Telling small businesses they must shut down, taking jobs away from millions of Aussies, and restricting church/family gatherings is certainly not reasonable.

  • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 14:28
    +3

    Sorry I find the consistency troubling and the public health orders very conflicting.

    If you observe government. They prioritised economy over public health that is why America and Europe is in the mess they are in right now. Government is always late in protecting citizens (look at scams and corporate collapses).

    Do what you can to protect yourself.

  • bobbified on 12/01/2021 - 14:36
    +10

    I'm starting to wonder whether half the people here know that the surgical masks are worn to protect other people (from the wearer) and not the wearer protecting themselves.

    • AustriaBargain on 12/01/2021 - 14:37
      +4

      Wearing a mask does stop you form unconsciously touching your own face/mouth hole. People touch their own face dozens of times per hour https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25637115/

      • bobbified on 12/01/2021 - 14:38
        +11

        I find that I touch my face more with a mask on because the little fibres irritate my face and nostrils.

        • AustriaBargain on 12/01/2021 - 14:39
          +2

          Sure, but you aren't sticking your hand under the mask and touching your mouth/nose are you? The mask acts as a physical barrier to your own hands too.

          • bobbified on 12/01/2021 - 14:43
            +1

            @AustriaBargain: I often wonder whether it makes a difference what I do. They're mandatory indoors, but not outdoors. So people take them on and off, on and off and then put it in their pocket and take it out, put it in their bag and take it out. Everything goes everywhere so how effective is it?

            With it on, it'll limit the distance of the particles coming out from one's mouth and nose.

            • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 14:50
              +1

              @bobbified:

              They're mandatory indoors, but not outdoors. So people take them on and off, on and off and then put it in their pocket and take it out, put it in their bag and take it out. Everything goes everywhere so how effective is it?

              Outdoors it assumes you can socially distance. You can give people the tools but if they use it like incompetent fools you know the results.

              It is like the idea of the 4sqm rule per person. No point when everyone is huddled in 4sqm and the other 96sqm is just empty because people don't get it.

              • bobbified on 12/01/2021 - 14:53
                +1

                @netjock: Sorry, I was getting at the fact that people take the masks off, stash them in their pockets or bags and then repeat whenever they walk in and out of somewhere. The disposable masks are meant to be taken off once and then thrown away because of contamination.

                • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 15:49
                  +1

                  @bobbified:

                  The disposable masks are meant to be taken off once and then thrown away because of contamination.

                  Agreed but something is better than nothing. I wasn't taking a shot at you. Just pointing out the fact you can get people to masks but they still do stupid things like you pointed out.

    • jv on 12/01/2021 - 14:56
      +4

      I'm starting to wonder whether half the people here know that the surgical masks are worn to protect other people (from the wearer) and not the wearer protecting themselves

      That is what they were designed to do, have has since been proven they do have effectiveness both ways…

  • jv on 12/01/2021 - 14:38
    +12

    in a state where there are no community cases

    that is in the past.

    you have no way of knowing if the virus is being transmitted currently in your state…

    • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 14:48
      +1

      you have no way of knowing if the virus is being transmitted currently in your state…

      The ones saying otherwise are tarot card readers trying to increase the legitimacy of their profession.

      • smartazz104 on 12/01/2021 - 16:26
        +1

        They should have told us about the virus before it entered the country.

  • slow on 12/01/2021 - 14:58
    +3

    I got used to wearing a mask when it was legally required, so figure why not help by continuing to wear one.

    I really don't get why all those people on their high horses make such a big deal of it

    • smartazz104 on 12/01/2021 - 16:27
      +5

      "Freedom".

      • tetra on 13/01/2021 - 14:50
        +1

        fragility

  • Gnostikos on 12/01/2021 - 15:23
    +3

    Meanwhile, COVID-positive gorillas at San Diego zoo are being kept together rather than being physically isolated because it's far better for their psychological and physical well-being, lol.

    I guess the zoo keepers must be some boomer Karens on Facebook groups who believe in pseudo-scientific conspiracy theories that claim hominids are inherently social animals and suffer adverse mental, emotional and physiological effects when socially isolated from each other.

    Peak clown world gonna keep on peaking.

    • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 15:47
      +1

      Meanwhile

      Gnostikos compares themselves to the wants and needs of Gorillas. I thought we moved on from that at least 65,000 years ago.

      • Gnostikos on 12/01/2021 - 16:36
        +4

        I thought we moved on from that at least 65,000 years ago.

        I don't know, did you? I still see you slinging a lot of faeces in this thread, so… perhaps not?

        • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 17:38
          -2

          You are the one getting personal. You put people and gorillas together first.

          • studentl0an on 13/01/2021 - 13:12
            +4

            @netjock: There's been many, many studies of the effect of loneliness causing illnesses.

            Humans, like Gorillas, need social contact to regulate biological functions.

            You may notice when you are around loved ones you get a feeling of wellness, due to a release of Oxytocin. A very important hormone for health.

            • netjock on 13/01/2021 - 19:41

              @studentl0an: Social contact doesn't mean you have to be in their face giving people germs. I mean seriously are you all adult babies? I don't deny there is mental illness but blow it out of proportion and believe you are on the same level as gorillas really help putting humans above beasts.

              2020 is a tough year, it isn't a life of solitary confinement. Goes to show people who worry about missing some social time and no wearing masks which means less social time. Take you pick, you can't have your cake and eat it at the same time.

              • studentl0an on 13/01/2021 - 20:01
                +2

                @netjock: I think for many people, it does mean social contact to the point of giving each other germs.

                It's fine that for yourself, or others, that you don't require that level of human contact for normal biological processes to churn along. Many others do require that. I'm not really one of them, but I always wished I was part of that crowd. I'm OK with not being allowed to travel for the last year to see family. I know of others who's mental and physical health has taken a toll that covid most likely wouldn't have taken with young healthy people.

                People are different, and our needs are different.

                • netjock on 13/01/2021 - 20:23

                  @studentl0an: Why cannot people still have social interaction behind a mask? What is different in public during pandemic conditions vs say at a hospital where a surgeon has a surgical mask talking to you before surgery?

                  People are on a different planet if they think some how we are exempt when people are dying by the thousands in the US and UK.

                  It is pure luck Australia was able to close borders before COVID19 took a foot hold. NSW and Victoria didn't get out of control.

                  Some how a majority of those refusing to wear a face mask and free ride off the hard work of the many in containing the virus.

                  I would dearly like to know these people who object to mask wearing, their contribution to our low levels of virus transmission. Cherry picking information off the internet to support their cause not included.

                  • studentl0an on 14/01/2021 - 15:10
                    +1

                    @netjock: Because not all people are like you, or me, or should be expected to wear a mask for social interactions for months, potentially years on end. People are different, and they react differently to being forced to do something or they react differently to getting a disease.

                    A lot of people think that the measures we are taking are significantly worse than getting the disease themselves, or their family/friends. A lot of people have weighed up the risks, informed or not, and they should be allowed to live how they wish to live. People who advocate for a lockdown can lock themselves down and not force others to do so.

                    Those who want to wear masks and quarantine themselves are free to keep doing so, but to force others to do so is really, really, tearing at the fabric of society. The fabric may tear irreparably not because of covid, but because of how some people reacted to covid by forcing their views, right or not, on others.

                    • netjock on 14/01/2021 - 15:14

                      @studentl0an:

                      Those who want to wear masks and quarantine themselves are free to keep doing so, but to force others to do so is tearing at the fabric of society, and it may tear irrepairably not because of covid, but because of how some people reacted to covid and forcing their views, right or not, on others.

                      Choices we make vs choices imposed on us.

                      It is okay to buy less take away coffees and eat out less regularly for years to save for a deposit on a (investment / owner occupy) property then have a 30 years of massive repayments but it isn't alright to not go out for a year because you or someone else might die.

                      Wonderful world we live it.

                      • studentl0an on 14/01/2021 - 15:17
                        +1

                        @netjock: It's really up to you, I wouldn't force you to do anything. Save your money how you wish and let me save how I wish. We are both capable of making these choices.

                        The same for wearing masks or forcing quarantine/curfew.

                        • netjock on 14/01/2021 - 15:18
                          -1

                          @studentl0an: Money doesn't walk around spreading disease.

                          If you can't tell the difference then you didn't use your student loan wisely.

                          I hope you use protection have intercourse. It is a mask for your private bits to prevent disease transmission.

                          • studentl0an on 14/01/2021 - 15:20
                            +1

                            @netjock: Interesting then how you used saving money as an analogy in regards to forcing lockdowns/masks if it had no bearing to the discussion at hand, or expected me to respond to it exactly how you presented it.

                            I don't think your argument shouldn't have devolved to personal insults, I think that's the point you lose.

                            "I hope you use protection have intercourse" - netjock 2020 when he realises his argument doesn't really hold water. What a rational well thought through sentence that is surely to change the opinions of others lol!

                            All the best.

    • Randolph Duke on 13/01/2021 - 02:30
      +2

      If the gorillas could sign up to social media, Zoom, get a mobile phone or VOIP plan, they might have separated them.

  • herecomestheoost on 12/01/2021 - 15:43

    I wouldn't have thought so.

  • morse on 12/01/2021 - 17:01
    +9

    I wear one sometimes if I think it’s going to be crowded even though it’s not mandatory where I am and the vast majority of people don’t wear them. Supposedly wearing one slightly reduces your chance of catching it even if the people around you aren’t wearing one. I also noticed everyone avoided me when I was wearing one recently and actually kept their distance, so if the actual mask does nothing, the people keeping their distance is great regardless. I never enjoyed people in my person space anyway. If it normalises mask wearing a bit great, but I don’t really see this as my role.

    • HumbleCat on 13/01/2021 - 03:14
      +1

      Thats actually a great thing. People can keep their distance even in elevators and narrow spaces.

    • DarwinBoy on 13/01/2021 - 16:37
      +1

      And if someone does get close just give a sniff or cough. Perfect.

  • burningrage on 12/01/2021 - 21:24
    +6

    I honestly cannot see the point of this thread other than incitement or disturbance of peace.

    You are your own agent and you are your own destiny. No point judging people around.

    • whooah1979 on 12/01/2021 - 21:37
      +6

      The world is full of people riding around on their horses looking down on others and telling them that they're doing things the wrong way. These people tell others that they're neanderthals if they don't adapt to a different way of life. Ozb is sadly not immune to this kind of behaviour.

  • this is us on 12/01/2021 - 22:39
    +3

    It is not that governments only make evidence-based decisions, but I guess if that's not mandatory, that's because there is no evidence that masks are helpful when there is essentially no virus circulating in the community. Therefore, no, thank you.

  • Mysterious on 13/01/2021 - 04:18
    +10

    No.

    Why would you normalise mask wearing in a country with zero community transmission currently? This whole "new normal" thing is completely (profanity) up. Is everyone actually comfortable with masks, elbow bumping and 6 foot distances being the normality now? There is nothing wrong with the real normal. So saddening to see so many people submissive and accepting of an antisocial society. This should be seen as a temporary adjustment so we can get back to the real normal, not accept it as a "new normal".

    It's considered normal overseas because people choose to wear face masks due to pollution and skin protection.

    I have chosen to wear a face mask when living abroad, and have chosen to wear one when cases were at an all time high here because I think they probably do work. Personally I have nothing against people who want to wear masks, and I probably would wear one if cases shot up again, but you can not force people to wear a mask.

    • AustriaBargain on 13/01/2021 - 05:03

      Does being seen wearing a mask count as forcing others to wear a mask? If I like to be polite to strangers to be the change I want to see, then am I forcing other people to be polite just by being seen being polite? And if I'm not polite then aren't I just as much noramlising not being polite. If I'm seen not wearing a mask, aren't I by the same token forcing other people to not wear a mask by signalling to them that it's okay to not wear a mask? Most of the arguments here against mask cut both ways. People feeling silently judged by mask wearers are actually the ones doing the silent judging.

      • Mysterious on 13/01/2021 - 11:11
        +6

        My post was not entirely directed towards you, it's just that there seems to be discussion about masks becoming the new normal and then of course there's the debate about whether they should be mandatory or not. I feel that masks should not be promoted as the new normal when there is no trace of COVID in Australia (besides those in hotel quarantine). I don't want to be refused service just because I'm not wearing a mask when COVID doesn't exist in the community. Call me judgemental but I do think it's ridiculous to be wearing a face mask for the purpose of COVID safety when COVID is not even circulating in the community. It's a sad sight to see everyone wearing masks, society feels so antisocial in Australia at the moment. We should be looking to move on from this period which has destroyed a lot of people's lives. To each their own I suppose. You can wear a mask if you want, but a growing number of people are moving on from them.

        • salbee28 on 13/01/2021 - 14:23
          -5

          If you caught an STI & could stop yourself from spreading it to other people, wouldn't you want to do that? Masks are no different in helping stop spread colds/flu/covid etc. I'd love to be able to reduce my risks of getting/giving colds purely by everyone having a bit of courtesy for others. It's not like you're being asked to wear them 24 hours a day, it's a minor inconvenience for the good of everyone.

          Regarding community transmission being non-existent, are you not keeping up with the current news out of QLD & NSW? They are both having issues with community transmission of late, even VIC just had a flair up. Don't fall under the assumption that just because cases aren't being reported, they don't exist in asymptomatic carriers who can be unknowingly spreading it, hence the results that continue to show up in wastewater samples. And the assumption that everyone who might display symptoms would do the right thing & get tested/isolate is quite naive.

          • Mysterious on 13/01/2021 - 16:56
            +5

            @salbee28: There's a difference between having an STI and (profanity) someone compared to wearing a mask when you're not even sick, there is nothing to transmit.

            Where is the line drawn then? Scientifically masks prevent flus being spread, that is true, so should people be expected to wear face masks in all public settings forever then? We could all wear bulletproof vests and thick boots and that'd save some deaths and stubbed toes every year, but it's a burden. No one wants to live in an antisocial society with people wearing face masks in stores and social settings all the time. If you're not sick, and not afraid of getting sick, there's no reason to wear a mask. You can argue it's sensible for everyone to wear masks in places like the UK and USA where COVID is rampant I suppose. Masks are considered normal in other countries because of poor pollution and skin protection. People don't wear them out of fear, and no one had ever forced anyone to wear one.

            Some of us don't want our "new normal" to be face masks and social distancing even when COVID disappears. We enjoy living in an interactive and normal society. If someone is fearful of the flu, continue to wear a mask and stay at home, some of us have our lives to move on with and refuse to live in fear. If the mask is protecting you from the flu, then there's no reason to be fearful of having the flu transmitted to you by someone not wearing a mask. If I'm sick or living in a city with horrible pollution I'll choose to wear a face mask whenever I want to, otherwise no thank you.

          • netjock on 13/01/2021 - 19:43

            @salbee28:

            If you caught an STI & could stop yourself from spreading it to other people, wouldn't you want to do that?

            To think people down voted and go offended by that :)

            • brendanm on 13/01/2021 - 21:07
              +4

              @netjock: People weren't offended, it was downvoted for being a moronic comparison.

    • GG57 on 13/01/2021 - 08:46
      +5

      Actually, you raise the most annoying and stupid thing out of all last year; elbow bumping. No-one I know does it, it is a stupid action, and achieves nothing.

      • netjock on 13/01/2021 - 10:24
        +1

        Only if you take it seriously.

        I do the wink, wink, elbow bump, foot tap then elbow bump the other side and a foot tap then flap my hands a little like a simplified Morris dance with my mates just for laughs.

        • brendanm on 13/01/2021 - 11:24
          +7

          I shake hands with people like a normal person.

          • AustriaBargain on 13/01/2021 - 11:29
            -1

            @brendanm: A lot of normal people don't wash their hands after wiping their ass. And if you're an average person too then you unconsciously touch your own face dozens of times per hour afterwards. Then you wind up feeling terribly sick, need to take time off work, your wife and kids end up getting sick and you all lose a few days of your life feeling miserably sick with cold or flu.

            • Mysterious on 13/01/2021 - 13:28
              +8

              @AustriaBargain: I'd rather shake hands like a normal person and get sick once a year than be a clown who does elbow bumps and dance moves.

            • brendanm on 13/01/2021 - 14:39
              +2

              @AustriaBargain: Oh well, hasn't seemed to have many downsides for me over the last few decades, so I think I'll keep doing it.

  • mdavant on 13/01/2021 - 05:57
    +6

    It is a waste of resources to wear masks when there is negligible risk.

    It heightens anxiety in some people.

    No. I will never wear a mask if I don't have to because I believe the health authorities in my state have appropriate mask wearing guidelines. Ie wearing masks in areas of risk.

    • morse on 13/01/2021 - 08:16
      +2

      What about reusable masks? There are some pretty good 3 layer ones available now. For sure we shouldn’t be wasting PPE required for hospitals, but most people aren’t wearing this stuff in the community. Fair enough if you don’t want to, but saying that those wearing them are wasting resources seems a little unfair.

      • mdavant on 13/01/2021 - 10:02
        +4

        No, if there is negligible risk of covid, it is a waste of time wearing a mask to prevent it.

        It is like making everyone wear a special had to sleep at night to protect them from skin cancer

        • morse on 13/01/2021 - 19:19

          Pretty sure we weren’t discussing ‘making everyone’. We were discussing optional mask use and you said that was wasteful even if reusable. 🤷‍♀️ If you don’t want to and it’s not mandatory where you live why have an issue with people who choose to.

    • netjock on 13/01/2021 - 10:26
      -2

      It is a waste of resources to wear masks when there is negligible risk.

      Hospitals have upped their preventative measures and if there was "negligible risk".

      Seriously you should get your car mechanic to do your surgery because the mechanics are similar, they can get up to speed by reading as they go.

      • mdavant on 13/01/2021 - 22:47
        +2

        I can't understand your grammar to answer properly.

        But I'll try to provide you with some thoughts.

        It is different for a hospital to use PPE as opposed to the general public

        If we spend money on PPE then that is money not spent on things that can actually work

        Why are you fixated on masks vs a negligible threat when you are blissfully unaware of very real risks that dwarf covid which you are not managing optimally.

        • netjock on 14/01/2021 - 11:10
          -1

          I can't understand your grammar to answer properly.

          Good put down. Hope you got something better. It isn't about the grammar it is about you logic

          If we spend money on PPE then that is money not spent on things that can actually work

          Like what? Trump brand disinfectant you can take orally or inject? Or stick a UV light inside your body. If there was a cheaper option you think the government wouldn't tell you? Yes, it is called social distancing and wash your hands.

          Why are you fixated on masks vs a negligible threat

          It is the issue you raised. Would you like me to talk about something else then change the topic.

          I don't get your grammar or your logic.

          • mdavant on 14/01/2021 - 13:52

            @netjock: Reread your post it makes no sense.

            " Hospitals have upped their preventative measures and if there was "negligible risk".

            What does that even mean.

            Sure I will answer the part about what we could spend money on instead. Primary care and health promotion, male and teenage suicide, eating disorders etc. Tangible, pertinent things.

            But sure, let's spend our hard earned wearing masks against a virusr that isn't in our community or at the very least is far less likely to be a problem than the current chronically underfunded issues. I have no problem spending money on masks when they are necessary.

            • netjock on 14/01/2021 - 14:00
              -1

              @mdavant: Hospitals have upped their preventative measure and if there was "negligible risk" (oh really?)

              Sure I will answer the part about what we could spend money on instead. Primary care and health promotion, male and teenage suicide, eating disorders etc. Tangible, pertinent things.

              Don't worry we won't need all that if people are dead (from COVID19)

              But sure, let's spend our hard earned wearing masks against a virusr that isn't in our community

              You been reading the news?

              very least is far less likely to be a problem than the current chronically underfunded issues

              Underfunding was a problem before COVID19. I guess there would be more funding if less people need funding (when they die from COVID19)

              I have no problem spending money on masks when they are necessary.

              It is okay for the government to buy masks for hospitals but it isn't okay for you to spend your own money on masks. Good one.

              • mdavant on 14/01/2021 - 14:43

                @netjock: Wow. It is like having a discussion with someone who has English as their second language. You required tour original quote which makes no sense at all.

                I am forced to wear a mask in an area which has had no risk of covid for many months.

                As a community we are spending money on this now as opposed to spending money on other things we weren't prepared to spending on before. Do you understand this basic point?

                If you read my posts (I doubt you have) you will clearly see I have no issues with masks when needed, but there are areas with compulsory mask wearing with extremely low risk of covid.

                You abviously have little understanding of risk and want to jump at shadows. No worries I expect you to keep wearing a mask until the day you die.

                • netjock on 14/01/2021 - 15:11

                  @mdavant:

                  Wow. It is like having a discussion with someone who has English as their second language.

                  Maybe you just haven't mastered your first language. I've got an masters from a top 10 global university based in London (United Kingdom not Ontario, Canada because you seem to be frequently confused)

                  I am forced to wear a mask in an area which has had no risk of covid for many months.

                  You going on about "no risk" you don't seem to understand implications of words you write (not mastered first language). There is no such thing as "no risk". If there was not risk then why is the government looking at protecting indigenous communities in the middle of the outback. They would be lower risk than you but nobody is "no risk" 100% safe. You could live in Antarctica (but they also recently got their cases). Stop it with the no / zero risk nonsense.

                  As a community we are spending money on this now as opposed to spending money on other things we weren't prepared to spending on before. Do you understand this basic point?

                  You don't understand economics. You think COVID19 money would be spent on those underfunded services? All this COVID19 money is borrowed money, the government wasn't willing to borrow before COVID19 for these services, they are not going to magically change their minds.

                  If you read my posts (I doubt you have) you will clearly see I have no issues with masks when needed, but there are areas with compulsory mask wearing with extremely low risk of covid.

                  Bit of a walk back statement. So we have walk back on mask wearing, then from no risk to low risk. Settle on something and stick with it. Stop chipping away trying to get an angle.

                  You abviously have little understanding of risk and want to jump at shadows. No worries I expect you to keep wearing a mask until the day you die.

                  Ouch, getting personal. You know one of the first sentences people pick up from foreign languages, profanity and abusive language. Nice to know you're typical. Can't express themselves and go swearing at someone else because of their lack of communication skills.

                  • mdavant on 14/01/2021 - 16:04

                    @netjock: Swearing? Wow.

                    Please quote from your high horse. Show me where I swore. Stop strawmanning.

                    My argument is consistent and sensible.

                    You seem to want everyone to do something that is irrational because of your fears.

                    Yes. I 100 percent believe that the health authorities are incorrect to mandate mask wearing in my area.

                    It is akin to the stupidity of shutting state borders for no real reason.

                    I am sure you studied in the UK, they let all full fee paying foreign students come over.

                    • netjock on 14/01/2021 - 16:21

                      @mdavant:

                      Swearing?

                      Sorry you don't swear, just politely abusive.

                      My argument is consistent and sensible.

                      Consistent and sensible in your own rationalised universe, not in this reality it isn't.

                      You seem to want everyone to do something that is irrational because of your fears.

                      I have never told anyone to wear a mask. Get that point straight. So what am I fearful about? People like you telling everyone there is no risk and over simplifying it.

                      Yes. I 100 percent believe that the health authorities are incorrect to mandate mask wearing in my area.

                      Under which authority do you have that 100% opinion. If you had proper authority and more insight I'm sure you would be making the decisions.

                      I am sure you studied in the UK, they let all full fee paying foreign students come over.

                      Goes to show you have no idea of how the system works. Even citizens of the UK have to pay GBP9,000 per year in a subsidized place for undergraduate unless you get a student loan which is more expensive than the Australian system. Australian education is cheap for a reason, first is to attract overseas students, otherwise for the same price they go to US or UK.

                      Another abusive put down with very little knowledge. Seems to be consistent.

                      • mdavant on 14/01/2021 - 16:30

                        @netjock: Evidence is the statistics in my area. I am not making it up! No tin foil hat here, just a thought on the utility of resources, including but not limited to physical items and psychological resolve.

                        I do work with people, professionally, who are significantly scarred

                        • netjock on 14/01/2021 - 16:48

                          @mdavant:

                          I do work with people, professionally, who are significantly scarred

                          I do work with people, professionally, who are not significantly scarred.

                          Maybe living in the right area, wrong profession.

                          • mdavant on 14/01/2021 - 16:58

                            @netjock: Yes you probably are working in the wrong profession. In my profession I assist people with issues which have been flared up by covid. Obviously a covid outbreak would be disastrous, but overdoing things causes issues too. One of the reasons mental health has been deteriorating.

                            • netjock on 14/01/2021 - 17:02

                              @mdavant:

                              Yes you probably are working in the wrong profession

                              You want more people to have problem so you have more clients.

                              Obviously a covid outbreak would be disastrous, but overdoing things causes issues too.

                              2020 is the best year in history to be out of a job. JobKepper, JobSeeker boost, get your super out without penalty. Even if you quit your job nobody is going to ask "why were you not working" or "please explain the gap in your work history".

                              People just over think the problem. I work in a mentally challenging profession, we work things out. We're not here to stress over stuff. We get through it, if we're stressed it is because we can't magically create more working ours to get the mountain of work done.

                              • mdavant on 14/01/2021 - 20:11

                                @netjock: Nah I want less people stressed as I am currently overworked!

                                Don't get me started on jobkeeper!

  • mdavant on 13/01/2021 - 06:10
    +4

    Your heavyset parents are not protected from cancer and heart disease from you wearing a mask.

    The risk of them dying from those is so much greater than even meeting someone else with covid, considering in NSW around 4 people in the state are detected per day currently. So while this could change, the real risk of obesity is glanced over and the social norm around that is not challenged. There are also slippery slope arguments.

    • AustriaBargain on 13/01/2021 - 06:17
      +3

      Normalising wearing masks by wearing a mask is a slippery slope to what though?

      • mdavant on 13/01/2021 - 06:44
        +2

        What could be the next thing enforced on people for something with a negligible risk.

        I don't mind wearing the mask I am currently forced to wear at the moment.

        But if people make it become the new norm for a negligible /almost non existent threat, what is the next thing they will target?

        We should not wear masks when the risk is negligible and should wear them when necessary

        If we go around wearing masks when they are not necessary it creates worry and is a waste of resources.

        • AustriaBargain on 13/01/2021 - 08:27
          +3

          Loss of productivity from even one day of flu per year more than pays for a huge carton of masks. Even loss of tax from a single day's lost productivity would have paid for a year's worth of masks. And that's on top of the physical pain that comes with having the flu, pounding headache, vomiting, fever, etc.

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