Wearing a Mask When Not Mandatory to Set a Good Example to Your Own Community?

AustriaBargain on 12/01/2021 - 12:57
Last edited 12/01/2021 - 12:58

Just wondering what you guys think of wearing a mask not because you think you need one in a state where there are no community cases, but just to help normalise mask wearing. Lots of kids in the community could live in households where the adults are skeptics about the science of stopping a pandemic and where a mask is seen as silly or pointless, or an affront to their liberty to show off their pretty lips maybe. So if those kids and adults see other adults wearing a mask like it's nothing at all then it could help noramlise it in their minds. Even though the state still recommends masks and the supermarkets have signs out front recommending masks, most people don't wear them. In some other countries masks are normal, if you're sick, or if there is flu about, or you're just worried about getting sick then you put on a mask and it's totally normal, no one thinks it's any stranger than putting socks and shoes on your feet before leaving the house.

Covid probably would kill my very heavyset parents so I would wear one while out anyway.

Health & Beauty

Comments

    • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 13:16
      +44

      Correct. Because we don't all want to look like mercenaries or bank robbers. Spreading disease is okay.

      • whooah1979 on 12/01/2021 - 13:28
        +15

        People should wear a face mask in accordance with the current health order.

        They should then be free to exercise their right to not wear one without being judged by others or in some cases attacked once the health order has been lifted.

        • AustriaBargain on 12/01/2021 - 13:38
          +41

          So if you saw me going about my day with a mask on, you'd feel attacked or judged by the sight of it? If those are feelings that are stirred up in you when you see someone with a mask, then it's not them judging you, it's you judging yourself.

          • whooah1979 on 12/01/2021 - 13:40
            +16

            @AustriaBargain: No. I respect other people's right to exercise their rights. I hope that you do the same.

            • Ughhh on 12/01/2021 - 13:54
              +2

              @whooah1979: What about their rights to judge you?

              • Scrooge McDuck on 12/01/2021 - 15:25
                +10

                @Ughhh: Personally, I couldn't care less if people I don't know judge me. It doesn't affect my life in any way.

            • Scrooge McDuck on 12/01/2021 - 15:32
              +2

              @whooah1979: Just like other forms of exercise, in the climate of cowardly governments, as it pertains to liberties, the phrase Use it or lose it applies.

        • GG57 on 12/01/2021 - 13:39
          +9

          And, obviously, they should then be free to exercise their right to wear one without being judged by others or in some cases attacked once the health order has been lifted.

          • whooah1979 on 12/01/2021 - 13:43

            @GG57: 👍.

          • AustriaBargain on 12/01/2021 - 13:51
            +1

            @GG57: How would you enforce protection of that that right, how can you tell if someone is silently judging you or not? And what if they silently judge you without a mask, should we have some kind of police to crack down on maskless silent judging too? Whether or not the silent judged has a mask on it still violates your supposed rights to not be silently judged. And in any case aren't you just silently judging the people you believe are silently judging you, shouldn't the thought police drag you away too? What about their right not to be silently judged by you.

            • GG57 on 12/01/2021 - 13:56
              +5

              @AustriaBargain: Settle down.

              I believe that you are here purely for the purpose of trolling and will not respond to any of your further comments.

            • Scrooge McDuck on 12/01/2021 - 15:38
              +3

              @AustriaBargain: I guess the microchips will be able to detect silent judging.

          • Scrooge McDuck on 12/01/2021 - 15:34
            +3

            @GG57: I find masks racist, they squash my big nose.

      • brendanm on 12/01/2021 - 14:17
        +11

        Almost no one in the entire country has the disease. Pretty hard to spread it if you don't have it.

        • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 14:19
          +11

          Tell the Queensland Premier that the 3 day lock down is a hoax.

          You read up on Hotel Quarantine failure in Victoria. Only takes one case to infect hundreds.

          • brendanm on 12/01/2021 - 14:20
            +14

            @netjock: Where did I mention a hoax? The person infected with the "extremely contagious" version of covid took 8 days to transfer it to the person they live with. So contagious no one else she came in contact with got it.

            Hotel Quarantine failure in Victoria.

            This is because the government is useless, has nothing to do with random people wearing masks.

            • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 14:22
              +1

              @brendanm:

              The person infected with the "extremely contagious" version of covid took 8 days to transfer it to the person they live with. So contagious no one else she came in contact with got it.

              One case is your sample size? Look at the UK statistics. They went from 38k cases a day to 58k cases a day with the new strain.

              • brendanm on 12/01/2021 - 14:24
                -3

                @netjock: We aren't in the UK. We are in Australia, where there are basically no cases. The need to wear masks is zero.

                • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 15:41
                  +8

                  @brendanm:

                  basically no cases

                  There is basically no risk in flying but yet people still die every year. Don't use "basically" as an argument.

                  • brendanm on 13/01/2021 - 11:07
                    +6

                    @netjock: Let's ban flying then, can't have any deaths at all. Ban everything.

              • Gnostikos on 12/01/2021 - 14:59
                -6

                @netjock: Mask mandates, lock downs, curfews, shutting down the economy, contact tracing, et al would have shown some marked improvement in COVID case numbers by now if any of those measures actually worked. They haven't done so in dozens of countries because they don't actually make any difference. All of the nations that had high COVID case numbers during the peak of the "first wave" last year, continue to have high case numbers, despite the muzzle mandates.

                All of these responses are just a false sense of security for the masses, political grand-standing for the politicians who enact them so can be seen to be doing "something" and civilisational suicide for our societies as we know them.

                • netjock on 12/01/2021 - 15:43
                  +1

                  @Gnostikos: Okay mate. Whatever. You are just lucky you live in a country with very low cases. It is like rich people imagining living in poverty as minimum wage which is still light years ahead of $1 a day in most South East Asian / African countries. You are just dreaming.

                • DingoBilly on 12/01/2021 - 16:04
                  +5

                  @Gnostikos: Weird.

                  Lockdowns don't work but.. Victoria?

                  Contact tracing doesn't work but.. NSW?

                  No idea how you can make your claims - if we didn't do those things we'd have significant numbers of cases otherwise. I do like your link to a picture of some random countries with random claims that has no actual scientific basis as if it has some meaning though?????? Not sure you understand how facts work? Or would you like me to make a picture that says "Lockdowns work - VIC" etc., would that help?

                  • Gnostikos on 12/01/2021 - 16:51
                    -2

                    @DingoBilly:

                    Lockdowns don't work but.. Victoria?

                    Wow, one case where it supposedly "worked" so that invalidates every other context where it didn't and continues to not work?
                    And by worked I mean clearly had no effect for several months straight when case numbers continued to climb and new outbreaks/clusters somehow kept cropping up despite implementing one of the most severe lockdowns in the world while Dan Andrews did daily press conferences in his North Face about "muh wicked enemy"?

                    Careful, you'll pull a muscle with those gymnastics.

                    • Bren20 on 13/01/2021 - 07:46
                      +2

                      @Gnostikos: Wuhan, New Zealand, Victoria

                      These places implemented harsh lockdowns until the virus was eliminated

                      Lockdowns in other countries seem to stave off collapse of the health system, and are lifted well before cases have dropped to zero

                • oO0Dam0Oo on 13/01/2021 - 07:47
                  +1

                  @Gnostikos: The whole mask debate is complicated but on the whole it has been proven to be of benefit in reducing the risk of transmission.

                  Initially the argument against masks were that the lay person would not use the same precautions as a trained professional in terms of its use. eg. properly washing hands before and after mask placement and disposing mask after manufacturers recommendations due to saturation levels and reduction in effectiveness.

                  As soon as someone touches a mask and then a surface that surface is contaminated which we have all seen happening time and time again within the public domain. Then you have people reusing masks, using vented masks that offer no protection to anyone but the wearer and those always loveable chin wearers.

                  What they do likely prevent is the mass spread of aerosols from (respiration, talking, sneezing, coughing) which can travel between 2 to 8 meters with smaller droplets potentially present in the air for hours.

                  TLDR: The masks are not a perfect solution. Just wear the bloody mask!

                  • brendanm on 13/01/2021 - 11:07

                    @oO0Dam0Oo:

                    Just wear the bloody mask!

                    Just live in the pod.

                    • oO0Dam0Oo on 13/01/2021 - 13:56
                      +3

                      @brendanm: There is a saying in medicine. You cant fix stupid but you can sedate it ;)

                  • blueskywalker on 13/01/2021 - 21:30
                    -3

                    @oO0Dam0Oo: The body detoxify through skin, urine and exhaling. If you keep it in the mask while you exhale it might not do very well to people. It might be a health risk for millions for a few cases.

                    • blueskywalker on 14/01/2021 - 09:29

                      @blueskywalker: PS: check if the cases go down or up in Europe where masks were mandated a while ago…

                • S2 on 13/01/2021 - 11:37
                  +1

                  @Gnostikos: I do like the example you've provided. It does does make me question the effectiveness of the COVID measures.

                  In relation to the effectiveness to masks though, I think this meme provides a clear analogy on how wearing a mask would help. Of course, I think oO0Dam0Oo's comment provides a more balanced and mature view.

            • Chandler on 13/01/2021 - 10:40
              +2

              @brendanm:

              Hotel Quarantine failure in Victoria.

              This is because the government is useless

              Hotel quarantine failure ≠ useless government

              has nothing to do with random people wearing masks.

              The quarantine failure doesn't, but Victoria's recovery from it has a lot to do with mask wearing.

              • brendanm on 13/01/2021 - 11:04

                @Chandler:

                The quarantine failure doesn't, but Victoria's recovery from it has a lot to do with mask wearing.

                Yes, I'm sure it has nothing to do with everyone being locked up at home.

                • Chandler on 13/01/2021 - 11:10
                  +4

                  @brendanm: There are several ways of reducing spread. The best way to socially distance is to stay at home. When you can't stay at home, you socially distance (1.5m). When you can't socially distance, wear a mask.

                  All of the above impacted Victoria's recovery - not everyone was staying at home.

                  Masks stop those who don't realise they are sick from infecting others.

                  • rogerm22 on 13/01/2021 - 14:24
                    -1

                    @Chandler: If you're asymptomatic you can't spread it to others. The only reason to wear a mask is if you have been diagnosed with it, or have symptoms.

                    • spokezzy on 14/01/2021 - 10:32
                      +2

                      @rogerm22: Got anything to back up that claim? Asymptomatic people still carry the active virus and can spread it.

                      • rogerm22 on 14/01/2021 - 14:16

                        @spokezzy: Yes, a study of 10,000 people.
                        https://www.aier.org/article/asymptomatic-spread-revisited/

                        • oO0Dam0Oo on 14/01/2021 - 16:44
                          +1

                          @rogerm22: Medical science is never based on a single study. It doesn't even look like the article has even had the opportunity of being properly peer reviewed.

                          People expect scientists and medical professionals to have all the answers here and now. The reality is there are still many unknowns given it is a novel virus with many studies to follow. Add to that virus mutations, nothing is a given.

                          I never understood that when someone has a family member who is critically ill that they entrust the lives of their loved ones to the medical profession in the knowledge that perhaps they know more about these things than themselves. Yet in the current climate everyone knows more than the doctors and scientists when it comes to evidence based practice.

                          Peer Review File: Editorial note: This manuscript has been previously reviewed at another journal that is not operating a transparent peer review scheme. This document only contains reviewer comments and rebuttal letters for versions considered at Nature Communications.

                          BMJ

                          The findings cannot be extrapolated to countries where outbreaks have not been brought under control successfully, said the authors of the report, which was published in Nature Communications.

                          The researchers said that their findings did not show that the virus couldn’t be passed on by asymptomatic carriers, and they didn’t suggest that their findings were generalisable.

                          They said that strict measures—such as mask wearing, hand washing, social distancing, and lockdown—were successful in reducing the virulence of SARS-CoV-2 in Wuhan and that asymptomatic people in Wuhan may have low viral loads. This means that the finding cannot be applied to countries where outbreaks have not been successfully brought under control.

              • MementoMori on 13/01/2021 - 17:42
                +2

                @Chandler: The masks do nothing (except for increase fear, arguments and compliance).

                Happy to see some actual evidence to the contrary.

                In fact, all the studies I have seen have shown they don't do anything - which is why we have warnings on the masks

        • belongsinforums on 13/01/2021 - 10:54

          Sewerage samples suggest otherwise

        • seabombs on 13/01/2021 - 21:52

          Even harder if you (and others) are wearing a mask.

        • Aneurism on 14/01/2021 - 19:18

          You sound a lot like those people that said HIV was a disease that affected people who were gay.

    • pais on 12/01/2021 - 13:24
      +1

      Why?

      • whooah1979 on 12/01/2021 - 13:30
        +1

        It is a personal freedom which is something that we still enjoy in Western cultures. We can say and do what we what as long as it is lawful.

        • Ughhh on 12/01/2021 - 13:56
          +3

          Normalising or creating a 'trend' is lawful.

          • whooah1979 on 12/01/2021 - 14:12
            -1

            @Ughhh:

            “The trend is your friend, until the end when it bends.”

            Remove the mandatory face mask rule and we'll see where trend goes.

        • zdterry on 12/01/2021 - 14:52
          +3

          Law is the minimum level of morality. Lots of things you can do are not against the law, but of low moral standards. Still, that's your choice, not mine.

          • whooah1979 on 12/01/2021 - 15:04
            -5

            @zdterry: The government could remove the mandatory face mask rule and let the people decide.

            • Bren20 on 13/01/2021 - 07:49
              +4

              @whooah1979: The post isn't about mandatory mask wearing, it is about to ongoing personal choice. You say you're pro freedom but you are anti mask and anti choice

              • whooah1979 on 13/01/2021 - 10:03
                -3

                @Bren20: Mandatory is the opposite of choice.

                • Bren20 on 13/01/2021 - 10:18
                  +9

                  @whooah1979: Thread title: Wearing a Mask When Not Mandatory to Set a Good Example to Your Own Community

                  Your response: Wearing a face mask is something that shouldn't be normalised in western cultures

                  What is your argument? You're railing against mandatory mask wearing, which isn't what is being discussed.

        • [Deactivated] on 14/01/2021 - 21:11
          +2

          What if your doctors want to exercise rights to not wear safety gear? Your food handler not wearing gloves?

    • Ughhh on 12/01/2021 - 14:04
      +3

      Wearing a face mask is something that shouldn't be normalised in western cultures.

      Would you want someone who is coughing and sneezing to wear a mask or not? If you create a spectacle out of wearing mask, they may not wear it in fear of people giving them funny looks as its not normalised.

      • Scrooge McDuck on 12/01/2021 - 15:49

        It should be up to individuals to behave responsibly, not others to emotionally support them to do so.

        • smartazz104 on 12/01/2021 - 16:15
          +4

          It should be up to individuals to behave responsibly

          Yes a person is smart, but people are dumb, panicky creatures.

        • Ughhh on 12/01/2021 - 18:26

          Well, they're already sick, so what do they have to lose. What are you going to do if you catch it and pass it on to your kids? Nothing.

    • DingoBilly on 12/01/2021 - 16:06
      +13

      This makes no sense.

      If something is a positive good change, why wouldn't you want to normalise it? You make it sound like it's a bad thing to wear a mask when sick, when it makes a heap of sense. It's unfortunate that people like you hold back positive changes.

      • whooah1979 on 12/01/2021 - 16:21
        -2

        I like Australia the way it is and have no interest in changing its culture by implementing something that may be a normal way of life in other countries.

        • Ughhh on 12/01/2021 - 18:30
          +7

          Imagine if caveman people had that mindset, we'd still be caveman with a short life span.

          Lucky you're not in any position of power, other wise we wouldn't have fairwork and safe work acts.

          • TheBilly on 12/01/2021 - 20:39
            -1

            @Ughhh: Ughhh not really … by your logic the only way change can take place is if it comes from somewhere else and you adopt it. So by your logic the original caveman made a wheel because the Asian caveman came along and said “hey this is our culture we make wheels why don’t you make some too” … replace wheel with mask in this analogy.

            • Ughhh on 12/01/2021 - 21:27
              +8

              @TheBilly: Huh, mask has been around way before you were born, in Western countries.

              Why is it a cultural/racial thing? It's like youre Comparing it to a turban or something. Why are people so defensive about improving safety standards.

              "OoOh toilet paper is too WeStErn, don't wanna change my cuLtURe, should keep using leaves and bushes".

          • snackerjoe on 13/01/2021 - 14:30

            @Ughhh: Probably wouldn't wear a seat belt either if it wasn't mandatory.

        • MementoMori on 13/01/2021 - 17:44
          +2

          Agree, I also like Australia the way it is.

      • brendanm on 13/01/2021 - 20:56
        +1

        Eating bugs is good for the environment, nutritious, and is common in other countries. Why don't you eat the bugs?

    • Okayy on 13/01/2021 - 09:09

      whooooohoooo boomer! Where its normal btw?

    • gromit on 13/01/2021 - 09:41
      +9

      yeah how dare western culture adopt safety and care for other peoples health apart from their own.

      • whooah1979 on 13/01/2021 - 10:43
        -1

        Wearing PPE is the last and the least desired method of control for a hazard. There is no need to use it when the hazard has been eliminated.

        • gromit on 13/01/2021 - 10:47
          +2

          mask wearing when a person is sick is considered polite and acceptable in asian cultures as it is polite not to spread your germs. It isn't just a method for protecting against covid, it is due to our culture sadly not giving a damn for anyone but themselves that it is not considered socially normal to wear one when you are sick.

          • whooah1979 on 13/01/2021 - 11:36
            -1

            @gromit: Different countries, different cultures. Some cultures promote collectivism while others promote individualism. Many Western cultures (English speaking) fall in the latter. Australians as far as I can tell is also in the latter. This makes Australia great and is something Australians should work hard to keep.

            • gromit on 13/01/2021 - 12:06
              +2

              @whooah1979: It also makes us selfish and moronic. being kind and considerate is not something to be ashamed of.

            • Bjingo on 13/01/2021 - 20:28
              +4

              @whooah1979: Individualism is a joke. The only reason the concept of individualism even exists is because we are part of a collective, I would hazard to say it is literally impossible to achieve an individualist culture given a culture itself only exists as a part of collectivism. How can one be a part of a community and propagate the idea of self reliance. You aren't really ever self reliant as without other people how could you reap the benefits of running water, electricity, safety or the concept of currency itself. Currency can only exist as long as the collective exists. I suppose you could live in the outback by yourself, hunting and gathering to attain individualism. Even look at all of human history and how we succeeded, it is all as a collective. If we did not act as a collective we would have gone extinct long ago.

              Also how could you say anything but Mateship is what makes Australia great. Honestly I think it is a shame that people want to disregard the thing that makes us Australian to literally egotrip.

              I would love to normalise wearing masks when you think you are sick, sure I may be sick but I can try make sure all these other people don't get sick too.

          • MementoMori on 13/01/2021 - 17:45
            -2

            @gromit: That's a good one

            AS IF people in Asian cultures wear masks to protect OTHERS

            They wear it because they believe it protects themselves

            Step one would be to cover nose/mouth when sneezing or coughing, which does not happen. Just go catch a tram in Melbourne CBD to see.

            • Ughhh on 13/01/2021 - 18:43

              @MementoMori: Well considering if you act like this and this man, one would need to protect them selves from such selfishness and stupidity.

          • brendanm on 13/01/2021 - 20:58

            @gromit: Why dont Asian countries have lower mortality rates? Surely the mask wearing should be saving them all?

            • Bjingo on 15/01/2021 - 13:39

              @brendanm: Population density

              • brendanm on 15/01/2021 - 14:08

                @Bjingo: Oh, so there are more variables than just mask wearing vs not? Amazing.

                • Bjingo on 15/01/2021 - 15:15
                  +1

                  @brendanm: No one has ever said that wearing a mask is the only thing that matters and there is literally nothing else that will impact getting sick, that's dumb.
                  I do not know what point you are trying to make by pointing out a mere fact of life.

                  Seatbelts don't guarantee you survive a car crash and an umbrella doesn't guarantee you wont get wet but they are still used because it helps reduce the chance. I do not understand why people get so upset about wearing a little mask, it is such a minor thing its on the same level as someone getting mad that a cafe has a no shoes no shirt no entry rule.

                  People got upset about mandatory seatbelts too, complaining about liberties, government control and saying nonsense like "it's the individuals responsibility to not have an accident" or "I'm careful when I drive and take all the precautions to be a safe driver why do I have to wear a seatbelt".

                  There seems to be such a disinterest in the general welfare of a community because of petty reasons like their own discomfort. So often I hear people complain about masks encroaching on their rights when really they just don't want to wear a mask, I don't like wearing ties but I still wear them for meetings.

                  • brendanm on 15/01/2021 - 16:42

                    @Bjingo:

                    Seatbelts don't guarantee you survive a car crash and an umbrella doesn't guarantee you wont get wet but they are still used because it helps reduce the chance.

                    If we use your examples, I will illustrate my point. Would you wear your seatbelt if you were just sitting in the car listening to the radio in the garage? Would you use your umbrella every time you went outside, whether it's raining or not?

                    Masks are the same. We have so few cases, and those that we do have are basically all in quarantine, that wearing a mask is akin to doing the things mentioned above.

                    • Bjingo on 15/01/2021 - 17:32

                      @brendanm: I was talking about the normalisation of wearing masks if you are sick not specifically for covid-19, though regarding current times with Covid-19 I agree for the states that had next to no community transmission just the social distancing, leaving the house less and being generally more conscious about the spread of germs is enough unless you have covid like symptoms in which case I think you should wear a mask in public. For the areas where it did spread among the community I would say people should wear masks just because of how contagious it is and if it could help slow the spread that's great.

                      For this discussion your analogy is spot on as we would be normalizing wearing masks when you are sick. if you were not sick you wouldn't wear a mask unless I suppose you want to. being sick is the raining or driving in this situation.

    • MessyG on 13/01/2021 - 21:13

      So much to unpack here. But considering all of it has been said on the Internet ad nauseum already and knowing that you have most likely read it all too, to still say something like that, all I have left is…

      Get your hand off it mate.

      • whooah1979 on 13/01/2021 - 22:06

        A vaccine is coming sometime in 2021 which will make it perfectly safe to walk about in public without a face mask.

        Gladys Berejiklian will lift the mandatory face mask rule before that. She will do it when her advisors say that it is safe.

    • Jaysful on 16/01/2021 - 00:15
      +1

      I mean…what's wrong with normalising face mask? I think normalising it would have quite a few benefits.

      • helps with hay fever
      • woke up late so they didn't have full make-up on for work
      • feel more covered/protected (winter)
      • feeling ill and don't want to spread it
      • privacy for certain people
      • hygienic for people working with food
      • new style of fashion trend (creates jobs, new product)
      • useful when bush fire smoke moves into the city

      I have worn face mask for many of the above reasons before the pandemic. I feel like people were always starring and I was a bit disappointed that it's not normalised here (after using it overseas). I miss seeing restaurant staff wearing mouth shield so their spit don't fly everywhere when they're talking over the food they're serving (common in Asia). Hygiene is pretty good for society I reckon.

  • Cheaplikethebird on 12/01/2021 - 13:07
    +12

    Yeah look this has been my thinking a lot of of the time during the pandemic but I try to suppress my feelings of moral superiority as I know I can't assume the reasons why others aren't wearing a mask.

    • AustriaBargain on 12/01/2021 - 13:17
      +26

      You can't assume why other don't wash their hands after taking a dump in a public toilet either. But if more people did wash their hands then fewer people would get sick. If everyone washed their hands then that night a few weeks ago you spend hunched over your toilet hurling with a pounding headache might never have happened. If there was something you could do, some kind of Jedi mind trick such as washing your own hands yourself every time you use a public toilet, then isn't it worth doing?

      • Scrooge McDuck on 12/01/2021 - 16:02
        +9

        If you catch a stomach bug from residual fecal matter on public furniture, that also indicates a failure of your personal hygiene — probably washing your hands before touching your face or eating.

        It all comes down to personal responsibility. Just like locking your doors at night, not walking alone at night in a ghetto, not swimming in crocodile infested waters, etc.

        • gromit on 13/01/2021 - 11:03
          +8

          The average person touches their face several thousand times a day (mostly unconsciously), unless you are basically washing your hands every few minutes it is nigh on impossible to guarantee avoidance of other peoples germs when in public. you can minimise by avoiding touching door handles, railings, chairs, tables etc etc to some extent but basically the world isn't built in a fashion that would allow someone that isn't a compulsive obsessive to be able to avoid shit regardless of how immaculate their personal hygiene is.

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