HELP - Why I Don't Have Car Insurance (Car Insurance Companies Won't Insure Me)

Ok, I saw the other post on why should have car insurances.

Let me share my problem on why I don't have car insurance and I'm hoping fellows in OzBargain can help me here.


Here it begins:

I do not have car insurance for my car, right now.

Why?
I could not find an insurer to insure my car (more precisely, on me.)

Last Sept, I switched my car insurance from AAMI to Budget Direct, considering lower premium.
However, I only mentioned two claims when I purchased the policy, whereas there were actually four in the past.

When I filed my new claim last Oct, Budget Direct denied the claim and refunded my policy, due to non-disclosure in the first place.

Honstly, I understand why Budget Direct did this, and I'm fine with their decision. I did forget to file the extra two claims, and according to their underwriting guidance, four past claims will put me uninsurable in the first place.

So, I fixed my car out of my own pocket, and I was ready to move on.

Appareantly, I underestimated the gravity of the situation.

I tried AAMI, Comm Insurance, GIO, etc. etc. No insurer is willing to insure me, due to I have been denied by an insurer before, under the ground of non-disclosure.
I tried couple of of insurance brokers as well, none of them even heard of this situation before.

I have two strategies here:
Find an insurer willing to insure me, or
Dispute Budget Direct's decision.

The latter one is ongoing, but not promising, Internal Dispute done, AFCA claim in progress, with slim chance (again, as it should be). Talked to lawyer even with no luck.

The former option is not much hopeful neither. Brokers have not heard of the situation, Insurance Council can only suggest use their website to find insurers and then call each of them individually. Insurance finder can only send insurance info close to my address. insurancelaw.org.au has been great help, but not enough to solve the problem.

Oh by the way, if i insure my car under someone else's name, when I'm in involved in the accident, the situation is still not insured.


So, fellows in Oz Bargain, any advices?

Comments

      • There will be a clause in the policy that excludes ‘previously refused insurance’ drivers.

        This bit varies amongst the different insurers. Most will only ask about the "regular" drivers. (Obviously, the rules for unlisted drivers would have to be abided by if a claim has to be made).

        • you might find that in the pds they may reject a claim from an uninsurable driver, just like they can refuse a claim from an unlicensed driver.

        • How are you supposed to know if someone has been previously refused insurance?

          Seems a bit unfair when you are paying for full insurance in good faith and then surprise your cars not getting covered because of something you had no way of even knowing.

          • +1

            @trapper: This is the grey area. Doing it "knowingly" vs what may be expected as "reasonable" due diligence can be the difference between a claim being accepted or rejected (or whether a court decides in your favour or not). I stopped before because someone's going to accuse me of encouraging fraud, blah blah.

            But like I said earlier, the conditions around an "unlisted driver" must be abided by. That is, they're not a "regular driver", because a "regular driver" should have been listed on the policy to start with.

      • Never thought about this when allowing someone to take a test drive in my car when selling privately, only checked for valid driver's licence. Sounds like it could be potentially risky?

        • Not condoning it, but you could always claim you were behind the wheel at the time.

          • @j4s0nly: I didn't neg ya, but THAT would be fraud. LOL. Also, the driver of the other car may not be that keen to lie for you so there's a good chance of getting into deep shit.

            Not many people think about this, but the implications of a fraud (or any other dishonesty offence) conviction are actually pretty bad and could destroy your career too - especially if you work in and around banks, financial institutions or the like where you're required to have 'good character').

  • +1

    Budget Direct denied the claim and refunded my policy, due to non-disclosure in the first place.

    I'm just shocked they refunded your policy. I thought they would just cancel it and you lose. Or did they just refund for the period remaining in the policy?…

    • “ and according to their underwriting guidance, four past claims will put me uninsurable in the first place.”

    • It's not worth the hassle of him disputing it so they gave him back his money so they owe him nothing. In the grand scheme of things managing a dispute is probably more costly as they have to hire people to deal with it.

  • +20

    Your a liar and a terrible driver, i think you need to take the bus and work on your morals.

    You need a good support group that are willing to tell you this. No offense intended, best of luck.

        • +19

          I agree with what Mikinoz says. The truth hurts but it's still the truth.

          Offence intended

          • +6

            @brad1-8tsi: Maybe that's playing a part of why they're getting denied coverage.

            Denied due to:

            Traffic offence intended

      • +13

        Technically speaking Mikinov was purely stating facts, without adding any unneeded insult. It just so happens that the facts are far from flattering.

    • +5

      There’s a difference between constructive criticism and attacking a persons character directly, and it’s unnecessary.

      • +2

        Why should we care about OP's feelings? We're all safer with them off of the road and they can say they are trying to reform until the cows come home but the fact they are still looking to be insured first and foremost shows how much concern they actually have for safety…

      • +1

        It is a tad harsh but it depends on how sensitive a person is. I wouldn't consider it attacking their character though, they lied and intended to commit fraud imo. I don't know how someone can forgot having several car accidents unless they had brain trauma. We can't pander to people who need to hear harsh truths.

        I know bad drivers that haven't had this many crashes in ten years. OP needs to stay off the road for a couple of years and do a lot of driver training.

        • -1

          The difference is saying someone lied and calling them a liar, which suggests lying is part of their personality.

  • How come you cant get third party?

    • Cuz in the eyes of insurers, I'm unreliable.
      So no products should be provided to me.

      Sigh..

      • +52

        Not just in the eyes of the insurers…

      • I guess it is a fact that business have a right not to do business with you so long as its not a discriminatory reason for not doing business with you.

        It’s tough, best of luck.

  • +3

    I am also curious about the way you learnt to drive?
    How old where you? Did you learn in Australia? How long had you been driving in 2017? Do you have any impairments that effect driving?

    I am learning to drive. it is taking me forever!!! I am still not sure if I will succeed. I won't drive if I pass my licence but I am not a good driver. If I do get my licence I plan to do more lessons after until I am excellent.

    • I'll be honest with you, you need to get a better instructor, drive with someone as much as possible before you get your licence.

      You need a good driving instructor. They will tell you, whether you are fit to drive or not.

      I had a German guy, very good, not sure if it's a racial thing or not, but guess germans make good cars for a reason. The guy was very systemic with me.

      • thanks very much for your thoughts

        i think i probably know a good one, but he was unavailable during covid. i should check if he is back.

        i should just put in more time too i guess.

      • You had a german guy ?? Not sure if we all are talking about the same thing ;)

  • +2

    Case closed, bad habit was checking ozbargain on phone and forgetting they were on road. Just kidding, still waiting for an actual answer of this bad habit that caused four accidents.

  • remind me never to accept a lift from you

  • +24

    My ex gf had an issue getting insurance renewed after too many claims. I encouraged her to write a letter taking ownership of her failings and offer to complete a defensive driving course and pay a higher excess which they accepted, that was with Aami and they even paid for her defensive driving course.

    You however have the issue of deceitful behaviour which is a very stupid thing in the insurance industry and a red mark that will stick with you for life.

    • that sounds like good advice

      im glad it worked out for your ex gf

      what was the reason for all her claims?
      did the defensive driving course improve her driving?

      OP did say he forgot not that he lied

      • +2

        Yes she was a new driver and just careless, 4 claims in 2 years. She completed the defensive driving course and was insured again. Managed to get through the next couple of years accident free. Not sure what her future held after that as we never kept in contact.

  • +6

    I did forget to file the extra two claims

    @yzha
    do you have an explaination for your memory lapse?

    like do you have a neurological, cognitive or psychological disorder that causes memory issues?
    or was something going on at the time?

    it doesn't seem like a thing that a normal healthy happy person would forget

    • I agree I shouldn't forget…
      Crashes was with my previous car.
      Again, not an excuse for my forgetfulness.
      But it's genuinely why…

  • Maybe just roll with cheap cars and third party, I've done it all my life and its way more economical, with a bit of luck in repairs

    • +1

      Unable to obtain 3rd party either.

  • this got me thinking,

    my elderly relatives cars, they had 2 cars damaged in the same hail storm about 3 years ago, 1x written off, 1x repaired
    2 years ago I was driving the repaired car, had a not at fault accident, got excess back in the end,

    does that mean if they applied for new insurance, they would be declined?

    and to not shop around when their renewal comes around?

    • +5

      Not necessarily. Each risk profile is reviewed on a case-by-case basis by each insurer/underwriter. Some will have more appetite than others to take on risks. Always shop around even if you end up with renewal.

      • Fair enough

        I recently applied for my own insurance and one of the questions was how many even not at fault claims have I had in x years question

        Insurance questions make me nervous

    • +1

      I take it the OPs claims were for at-fault accidents. Your relatives had not-at-fault accidents so the situation with the OP is worlds apart.

      • Obviously the situations are different but the questions I answered for my insurance specifically said how many claims even if they were not at fault

        It even asked how much damage the claim was

        • +1

          It all goes to risk rating. The more you have claimed in the past the more they think they will be likely to have to payout in the future.

          Eg one recent at fault incident with otherwise 20yr clean history vs 5 not at fault claims spread over the same timeframe. Which one do you think is higher risk? It might not be the same answer as your insurer either!

        • Sounds strange to me that they’d ask you the damage for the claim - I’ve had a repair before and I wouldn’t have a clue how much the claim was for - all I paid was the excess to the repairer, the rest was negotiated directly between the repairer and the insurer.

  • +11

    I used to work with Insurance Australia Group - (SGIO in WA, SGIC in SA, NRMA in QLD, NSW, ACT, etc) a while ago now

    This used to be a fairly common occurrence. Someone would change Insurer, specifically to Budget Direct, they would have a policy cancelled or Insurance Renewal not offered (Budget Direct had a history of not offering a renewal after you had a claim with them) and then you have trouble getting Insurance with other companies due to disclosure of prior policy cancelled/not offered.

    Back when I worked with Insurance Australia Group we would have offered you Insurance. Some caveats though
    - When applying for insurance your application would be placed on hold until our underwriters could manually review your refusal of insurance/cancellation letter. If you dont have it, phone BudgetDirect and get it
    - This meant you could never get a policy out of hours (aest 9am-5pm)
    - Even if we had agreed to insure you, no changes to your policy could happen outside that 9-5 window as everything required underwriters to sign off
    - You may be subject to a special excess in the event of a at fault claim

    On the positive side, they didnt penalise you in terms of Insurance premium.

    Im stunned that Insurance Brokers couldnt actually help you though.

    I'd get in contact with which ever brand of IAG is in your state, phone them up and be ready to fax through the refusal letter and see how you go

    Good luck

    • +2

      Though based on your 4 prior accidents you may get slapped with 2 special excesses lol.

      Anyway some insurance is better than no insurance.

    • +7

      That's a good heads up for people using the cheap insurers like Budget Direct… ie get insurance denied and you are then screwed getting insurance from practically everyone…

      • +1

        But would this be a different scenario, because the OP didn't disclose previous claims? As opposed to non-renewal due to a claim being filed?

        I agree though, I'm not really sure how much I actually trust Budget Direct.

        • +5

          Renewal not offered was much more common than Insurance Cancelled - but both still happened

          I've personally stayed away from Budget Insurers for this reason

    • I was going to add that insurers are making a bet on the OP, essentially like you would bet in a sports game, or casino, on how likely the OP is to become a risk, or a liability, and so without all the facts that just won't be willing to insure the OP. Would that be a fair comparison/analogy?

    • What constitutes a rejection of insurance though?

      I purchased a new car and while it was being delivered

      I got a quote from budget direct
      When the car arrived I got another quote, with the same answers and got declined.
      So I just went with the old quote

      Is this a decline?

      • +1

        No, refusal to offer insurance is different to cancellation of insurance.

    • +5

      fax

      Lol

    • +1

      Thx!
      Will give a call to them.

      It's really helpful!

  • -1

    You remind me of a mate that got scammed 2 phones on FB market place, almost identical some might think…

  • +2

    Have a look at Essentials by AAI, there's income conditions to be eligible but they will insure pretty much anyone with a driver's license. They don't even ask how many claims you've had, any demerits/disqualifications etc.

    • Thanks!
      Will give them a call.

  • +2

    Why not register the car in a company name, apply for registration in company name and insurance too?

  • If it was me it'd be too inconvenient not to drive, so id just drive the car anyway but take measures to minimise accident chances:

    If it was me:

    • Only driving on familiar roads.
    • Only driving when you really need to.
    • Avoiding driving at night.
    • Being extra careful generally.
    • Driving on the freeway is statistically less likely to result in an accident.
      *If you see a Ferrari do not drive behind it.

    I'd also try every possible insurer to try and get 3rd party. In theory non disclosure should not be as big of an issue for 3rd party.

    • +1

      One word. Risk

    • That might work for you, but have you got a history of 5 crashes?

      Personally, I’d find it pretty inconvenient to not drive. I’ve got a good history of driving with one at fault claim last century but I’m not going to risk driving regularly without insurance, not would I recommend it. I’ve had a couple of minor mishaps misjudging clearance to object that didn’t require a claim, but hurt pride. Driving ‘carefully’ won’t prevent everything

      Come to think of it, if I couldn’t drive it’d save time dragging kids to sport etc, much easier to arrange a lift for them or chuck ‘em in a cab. Would also get fit cycling to work.

      • If he can get away with not driving at all then great. For some people it's all virtually impossible. I appreciate the risk would not be ideal, but can be minimised.

    • Thanks for the advice.
      Will definitely improve my driving.

  • +7

    You tried not crashing your car? that works

    • +3

      I’d say OP has tried not crashing, but history tells that it didn’t work.

      • Your response made me chuckle.

  • On the other hand, someone please explain why insurance companies won't do business with people like OP? Its just a formula to workout some higher than usual premium for people like OP to pay up. No need to shut the door?

    • +1

      someone please explain why insurance companies won't do business with people like OP?

      If you lied about one thing what else could you be lying about?

      Its just a formula to workout some higher than usual premium for people like OP to pay up. No need to shut the door?

      AAMI offered OP a renewal. It is just OP went with Budget Direct and conveniently forgot about 2 of 4 accidents.

      Unfortunately insurance companies are lazy bunch. They only ask accidents not whether you were at fault or not at fault. Assuming at fault is bad risk then someone would have to be on the receiving end most of the time. Bad drivers don't go off the road into a ditch and create a one sided claim all the time.

    • -1

      OP can't even get third party, you can't legally drive a car with out third party. He is to much of a risk on the road to others. Does money solve a death he may cause? He shouldn't be on the road. It doesn't matter how good of a driver you are, it's how bad other drivers are. This person is a very bad driver.

      • +2

        You're confusing third party property damage with CTP.

        • +2

          Ah yes indeed I am. Thanks for the correction.

    • What kind of premium would you charge if you thought he was going to hit a European car with a $50,000 damage bill due to imported parts etc?

      If we look at a one year period, thats $4200 per month just for that incident.

  • +1

    Hi,try googling "MOTOR VEHICLE INSURANCE FOR HIGH RISK DRIVERS"
    -Try Finder",com.au
    things to consider—1/your age
    2/ FULL details of the 4 previous claims
    3/ the power of the vehicle you are trying to insure (linked to your age)
    4/ try youi insurance,
    if you cannot get anything from any of them,
    options are-sell your car-buy a motorised scooter-or a motorised push bike,/but keep on googling

    • Thanks for the advice.

      Australia really does not have high risk insurers.
      Insurance council has a website listing all insruance providers.

      The category of "high risk" does not have a single insurance listed below.

      I guess over the years, big insurance companies have taken all the market in this area.
      And this area predominately is for someone with driving offence.

  • +4

    If OP lied to insurers, what's to say he's not lying to us? Probably more to the story that he's "forgotten".
    From what you've said, I'd prefer you never drive a car again on public roads with the rest of us, but if you must I guess try ringing as many insurance brokers until one can find someone willing to take on the seemingly enormous risk that you are as a driver. Hot tip, be honest with them about everything or don't waste peoples time.

    I've heard of others in the past with repeat offending which involved police, courts and insurance companies, he ended up having to catch the bus, walk or buy a push bike to get around for just over 10 years before he could find anyone who'd insure him and he has been paying stupid premiums ever since.

    • -1

      Thank God, your preference does not make any difference.

  • If you are married, transfer the vehicle to your spouse, insure in their name and register yourself as a listed driver. See if this works. The other option could be being an unlisted driver and fork out the additional excess if an incident does occur.

    • Might be cheaper for OP to get married if they aren't already.

    • You don't need to have insurance in same name car is registered under, well at least in WA I know that for a fact.

      The policy holder should be someone who holds financial interest (purchased the car for a sum).

    • +2

      I'd not suggest this, some insurance companies will penalize both drivers for future premiums and vehicle insurance as both are named on the policy.
      Why go ruin someone else's insurance premiums because OP can't tell the truth or drive very well?

    • Nah, both listed driver and unlisted driver is not a viable option.
      I checked with insurance providers on this.

  • +2

    Go through AFCA. I can't tell you what to say, but you should be able to work it out.

    Budget Direct and their kind are awful insurers, never use them.

    A good broker (if you'd used one in the first place) would have had the insurer come off risk but not let the insurer ruin you like this.

    Lesson: Never lie to insurers. You have a legal duty of disclosure.

    • I'm curious about what you think AFCA should do in this case.

      The OP signed up for a policy that required them to disclose accidents, they did not disclose all their claims, and then the insurer found out. I'm not sure exactly what part of that puts Budget Direct in the wrong?

      As for his current plight, I'm fairly certain AFCA can't compel Budget Direct or any other insurer to make a business decision to take on the OP, so again I'm not sure what kind of resolution you think would be appropriate.

      • I have had a few of these overturned. You're correct in almost everything you say.

        My resolution (and I have been successful on numerous occasions, including a similar one only today), is to have BD come off risk but rescind the non-disclosure so as to allow the OP a chance at obtaining insurance.

        Good insurers (not junk insurers) may have brought this up and either come off risk, charged and additional premium or additional excess.

        AFCA can indeed enforce a decision upon the insurer as the OP mentions "I did forget to file the extra two claims, and according to their underwriting guidance, four past claims will put me uninsurable in the first place."

        It can be argued that it was unintentional and thus would provide a decent case.

        You would be surprised what an experienced broker can do to protect their clients.

    • AFCA just released their PA as unfavourable to my claim, which, again, is total fair…

  • +3

    So.
    1) You lied about your driving history
    2) Your driving history sucks

    When you went to claim, your current insurance company found bout about 1 & 2 and denied the claim, then cancelled your policy and refused to insure you.

    No wonder insurance companies don't want to touch you.

    You're basically going to have to have 5 years of clean driving, and most likely self-insure for those 5 years.
    Then you're going to have to go on the worst No Claim Bonus and build it back up with a further 5 years of no claims, to get the best price.

    Good luck.

  • +4

    I'm really curious. Can you provide details of the accidents, such as date and what type of crash.

    • -3

      Beg harder.

      • +2

        Seriously? Why so rude and salty?

        Seems like you definitely have something to hide then. The reason I asked is because you may have included crashes that occurred outside this country which I don't believe you would have to put in your past history.

        • -1

          You are right.
          I apologise.

          First of all, I was mistakenly thinking you are being sarcastic, when you are truly helping.

          Secondly, should not release too much bitterness at all. Well, it’s difficult when the malicious replies are predominant. Again, apologies.

  • Have you considered hiring bikies to convince the insurers to insure you?
    Might be your only option

    That or hopefully after 3-5 more years the black mark disappears from your name
    Harsh lesson, very big deal to not be able to drive.. But at the same time thats a lot of claims :/

    Also no idea with non disclosure IF that is something that will be removed from your record in a few years? Long time to wait and find out :(

  • +1

    There's a lack of 'high risk' insurance companies in Australia. It does make it very hard for people in your situation.

    I would think you'd still be able to get third party through someone, but you may need to pay through the teeth in premium costs.

  • Insure it in someone else's name with unlisted driver cover.

    • +1

      And when OP has an accident the insurance will be cancelled and the claim denied.

      • +1

        Unlikely, that's the whole point of unnamed driver coverage. They can't just arbitrarily deny.

        Read the PDS though.

        • +1

          Just because an insurance company insures for an unlisted driver, it doesn't mean they don't do checks once an unlisted driver is involved in an accident.

          I've worked in the insurance industry. An unlisted driver still needs to be insurable, i.e. pass the same questions that the account holder has to.

          • @newjerseydamo: No they don't, otherwise they would then be a listed driver. I think you might be missing the point of what an "unlisted" driver is.

            Unlisted drivers are subject to a much higher excess, in general, for this very reason.

            • @picklewizard: Check the PDS. It probably says we cover all unlisted drivers except …. and it will list some conditions. Eg DUI, unlicensed, used in criminal activity, used for commercial purposes etc. and probably in the list will be ‘drivers who have been refused insurance’.

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