$850 Unpaid Rego Fine

LToastySteve on 29/03/2021 - 12:04
Last edited 29/03/2021 - 16:33

Hi guys,

Last night my sister got pulled over and fined $850 for a 50 day expired registration. It seems her registration bill was being sent to an email at a previous place of employment that wasn't forwarded on.
Obviously this is her fault for (a) not thinking to change her email address (or not sending it to a private address to begin with), and (b) not realising that she hadn't paid for a rego refresh 2 months later than she normally would have.
However these do seem like minor oversights and an $850 fine seems pretty severe, when you get a lesser fine for doing >30km/h over the limit.

She's 39 years old, has paid rego on time since she was 18 years old, has a pretty clean driving record and ironically she works as a volunteer driving instructor for disadvantaged youths.
I'm just wondering if you guys think there's any merit in contesting it (or asking for a reduced fine)?

Edit: New information has come in.
She'd opted out of postal mail notification, and was just receiving email reminders/payment information, which she was set to receive in her personal mail.
As a driving instructor you have to put down your instructor details down when the kids go for their tests. Because of this, her previous employer had set all of that to their business details, including email, which is where her rego would have been sent.
As they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

Automotive

Comments

  • Hybroid on 29/03/2021 - 12:06
    +63

    Obviously this is her fault

    So, what's the proposed argument to be made in court as defence?

    • ToastySteve on 29/03/2021 - 12:10
      +27

      Do you need an argument when admitting your mistake asking for mercy?
      Youtube is full of videos of this happening in the justice system, not sure if it's a realistic expectation or not. Thus the post.

      • apsilon on 29/03/2021 - 13:29
        +11

        No but keep in mind that one outcome is that not only is the fine upheld but you also need to pay court costs and even the prosecutors costs (at least in NSW). Have to decide if it's worth the gamble when your argument for taking up the courts time is "I'm guilty but I'd like to pay a lower fine."

        • ToastySteve on 29/03/2021 - 13:31

          I probably shouldn't have written anything about taking it to court, I just have very little knowledge of how these things work. If there's an avenue that you can plead guilty on paper that definitely sounds like a go. We'll do some research.

          • apsilon on 29/03/2021 - 13:37
            +2

            @ToastySteve: All the options should be on the fine. it's been a long time for me and it probably differs depending on state/territory but I believe you can ask for a review. Of course that's going to just come back and confirm the fine is valid so you're next option is to take it to court.

      • juki on 29/03/2021 - 18:39
        +2

        those are the rules of the game, you dont need malicious intent, i dont understand why you'd even think that because its not intentional you can pay less of a fine

      • trongy on 29/03/2021 - 19:08

        I think it would be worth going to court if there was a genuine case of hardship. A single mother earning $25k a year who needs the car to take her child to chemotherapy might get some leniency. Someone who can afford to pay the fine should just pay the fine.

    • Xistn on 29/03/2021 - 12:10
      +8

      Exactly, it is your duty to be responsible though… Not rely on a Bill notice / reminder.

      • ToastySteve on 29/03/2021 - 13:24
        +5

        Absolutely correct, no argument there. I guess my thinking was that $850 was a little steep. As others have pointed out though, if she'd had a crash without the CTP it could've been a lot worse, so maybe $850 is fair.

        • Tambani on 29/03/2021 - 21:47
          +11

          It's meant to be steep. That's how you register that you're really being punished and may decide you don't want that to happen again.

      • abb on 31/03/2021 - 11:23
        +8

        Maybe someone should invent a sticker that you could put on your windscreen as a reminder.

        • ShortyX on 31/03/2021 - 12:01
          +1

          The good ol’ days!

    • pharkurnell on 29/03/2021 - 12:31
      -2

      It appears as though Youtube Videos are his defense on advice from Dennis Denuto

      • ToastySteve on 29/03/2021 - 13:21
        +17

        You're misunderstanding the post/question. I'm not looking to mount a defence, I'm merely asking if the ozbargain people think it's possible to plead guilty and receive a less severe fine for a first offender. Everyone seems so angry and snarky about this. Not sure why. Is it that offensive a question?

        • bmerigan on 29/03/2021 - 22:24
          +7

          This sort of question always gets flamed here.

        • Forkinhell on 30/03/2021 - 10:12
          +4

          Yes, ToastySteve, she should write to the appropriate official body and plead guilty (admit it her mistake), but ask for a review of the fine due to mitigating circumstances (eg employers requirement for email, good character/history, charity work etc).

        • dealman on 30/03/2021 - 12:48
          +1

          That is half the Internet, Rude and snarky. I feel your pain brother.

        • JFFTech on 30/03/2021 - 12:55
          +14

          Unfortunately, Ozbargain is no longer the forum it used to be. You will get one or two relevant inputs but the rest of the 100's of messages are moral policing and they act as though they're the messiah for Aussies. When the OP acknowledges the mistake, constructive feedback from the Ozbargain community is what is needed. It's unfortunate that there are hundreds of forum members who spend their time only criticizing others and adding no value to the conversation/forum. Personally, I would refrain from posting such questions to Ozbargain unless I wanted some free bashing :-).

          • p1 ama on 31/03/2021 - 19:32
            +1

            @JFFTech:

            Unfortunately, Ozbargain is no longer the forum it used to be. You will get one or two relevant inputs but the rest of the 100's of messages are moral policing and they act as though they're the messiah for Aussies.

            The problem is that the OzBargain forum is no longer a forum for discussing bargains and things to do with bargains and shopping.

            It's just become another Reddit where people ask very specific questions that most people have no experience with nor know how to answer and therefore, the only semi-valuable input they can give is some snarky comment to get upvotes and likes.

            Ultimately, if it were up to me, I'd kick the entire part of the forum that has nothing to do with bargains, and I'd kick up/down votes for comments because it just encourages "speaking to the crowd".

        • Ahbal on 31/03/2021 - 09:49
          +2

          They complain about the idiotic/trollish posts, but then a genuine post pops up and everyone is an arse.

        • MrSammyMcG on 31/03/2021 - 18:43
          +2

          Ive learnt not to ask things on ozbargain. Everyone is happy to post deals but people are genuinely arrogant half of the time regarding these sorts of things. Even if what you post is wrong or probably not the majority view there's no "letting people down gently" haha.

      • Other on 30/03/2021 - 13:16

        Isnt the state meant to serve its own population?
        Not the other way round?
        No your right.

        • desync on 30/03/2021 - 16:44
          +1

          really? i thought it was pretty obvious that the state has consistently done the opposite

    • iactnow on 01/04/2021 - 06:08
      -2

      There's a lot of moral judgement in most people's replies here, but basically it's unconstitutional the registration and in my opinion just racketeering to collect revenue and nothing to do with safety.

      Lookup http://www.aussiespeedingfines.com/ and see whether they have anything in their products to help with this, you can send them an email to confirm.

      First time I went to court to fight the racketeering fines it was frightening, but I don't seem to get fines sent to me after I get pulled over by police and state my rights.

      If above site doesn't help you can look up the following also:

      https://www.knowyourrightsgroup.com.au/
      https://www.solutionsempowerment.com/

      and just ignore all the sheeple here moralizing and giving you their conformist opionions.

  • orangetrain on 29/03/2021 - 12:13
    +42

    $850 lesson:
    - Don't use work email for personal stuff
    - Learn to use calendar or similar event reminders
    - Check mail

    Hope she got demerit points too, otherwise its another tax on the poor.

    • ToastySteve on 29/03/2021 - 12:27
      +13

      Hope she got demerit points too, otherwise its another tax on the poor.

      I understand the your first points, but not this.
      Why would you hope for a more severe punishment for an accidental and victimless offense? And how does it further tax the poor?

      • dizzle on 29/03/2021 - 12:34
        +28

        Would it be victimless if she had an accident? No CTP insurance

        • ToastySteve on 29/03/2021 - 12:53
          -5

          Well… Yes? She'd be the victim and have to pay the costs herself rather than the insurance company. Keeping everybody's premiums down, right?

          • Brian McGee on 29/03/2021 - 13:02
            +9

            @ToastySteve: If she seriously injured someone then she would be on the hook for all medical bills for the injured party, why should medicare pay for your sisters oversight? This is not just an oversight, it is gross negligence.

            • ToastySteve on 29/03/2021 - 13:07
              +2

              @Brian McGee: @blank-404 I'm not arguing with you, genuine question. Would Medicare actually be covering this? And if how is that actually different from insurance covering it? Wouldn't a CTP insurer go through Medicare too?

              • Brian McGee on 29/03/2021 - 13:10

                @ToastySteve: CTP are private insurance investment companies, not medicare. I dont want my medicare premium going up just cause your sister forgot to pay rego and made someone a paraplegic. They then become a dependent of the state (private citizens contributing to medicare/NDIS) rather than a multi-billion dollar investment company made to handle these claims.

                • ToastySteve on 29/03/2021 - 13:13
                  +1

                  @Brian McGee: Makes sense. We'd still be paying with our insurance premiums, but I guess competition keeps them lower, and we have some choice there (kind of, kind of not).

                • Other on 30/03/2021 - 13:19

                  @Brian McGee: The premium is just another word for tax - it has zero connections with CTPs.

                  Or does your medicare premium raise and fall by the number of accidents they have?

                  • Brian McGee on 30/03/2021 - 14:40
                    -1

                    @Other: I am talking about everyones contributions through tax to the medicare system. If someone required $20million in lifetime healthcare cause they got hit by an unregistered/uninsured driver, they are then a burden on medicare and everyones contributions will need to go up. If the CTP is actually paid then this becomes a private matter between CTP company and the inured party, an OPs sister is the one that cops the increase in premiums.

          • Donaldhump on 30/03/2021 - 00:34

            @ToastySteve: not if she causes $5 million in lost wages, medical bills, and renders someone unable to work through an accident, then declares bankruptcy, and 5 years later is all good to go again with life.

        • imurgod on 29/03/2021 - 16:21
          +1

          This is not true in NSW

          Edit: I just realised the OP is in QLD, so irrelevant, apologies

        • Jackson on 29/03/2021 - 17:54
          +3

          Pretty sure the CTP levy means that now everyone is covered in an accident regardless

      • orangetrain on 29/03/2021 - 13:00
        +2

        Fines are high to deter people, especially if there's no demerit points. If there was demerit points, the fine might actually be smaller as risk of losing licence may deter drivers.

        I'm a fan of removing money fines and using demerit points instead.

        • Euphemistic on 29/03/2021 - 13:45
          +5

          I think we need both. Demerit points for rich people who have no issues with paying stuff off. Meanwhile dollars out of your pocket is a lot more real than a couple of demerits that delay the consequences for your actions.

          • ToastySteve on 30/03/2021 - 00:47

            @Euphemistic: Think they do that in Scandi, possibly Norway if memory serves. Seems effective enough.

            • SwarleyAUS on 30/03/2021 - 08:22
              +1

              @ToastySteve: IIRC in Switzerland the fine is proportionate to your income which I think is much fairer and more effective.

        • Brian McGee on 29/03/2021 - 16:18
          +2

          I agree with you that fines should be demerit based first and foremost for the serious offences (speeding, drink/drug driving, unroadworthy/rego lapsed vehicles) as everyone only gets 13 points regardless of the $$ value in your account. Then tack on a 'service fee' for stopping an officers patrol.
          Having said that habitual offenders also need vehicles taken away no matter who owns it. That way people will think twice about lending vehicles to those that lose their license. Too many NSW Highway Patrol posts on facebook of lunatics 45kph+, mid range and doing burnouts/d1ckhed drifting but the car can't be taken cause they don't own it.

      • thanatos350 on 01/04/2021 - 11:57

        People here can be brutal. Some of us aren't great with organisation and memory and sometimes you don't realise your error until it occurs. It almost happened to me after purchasing my car as the rego the car came with had expired and I had received no communication. Thankfully, I was only out by a day or two. I understand the steep fine, however, to encourage compliance.

        In reality, I've seen people receive mercy in the form of reduced license suspension after being clocked at immense speed. I hope someone more knowledgeable than I can give you some more practical advice.

        It is curious to me that your friend was noticed by police, while you see a large volume of cars driving around the far west of Sydney that are clearly not road worthy and therefore unlikely to be registered.

    • SF3 on 29/03/2021 - 12:51
      +1

      And to add to this.

      She can add to her capabilities as a driving instructor, experienced through life skills not taught in the learners handbook to pay rego before expiry.

    • p1 ama on 29/03/2021 - 21:20
      +2

      Hope she got demerit points too, otherwise its another tax on the poor.

      How's it a tax on the poor? It's a tax on idiocy, IMO. If you can't afford to be an idiot, then don't be an idiot.

      • orangetrain on 30/03/2021 - 09:12
        +1

        Its a tax on poor because it penalises poor people and does nothing to discourage rich people from doing the same thing.

        If you prefer, there could be scaling fines. Lets say she's 70k per year for $850. If you're paid 700k, you should pay $8500 scaled up. Would this sound fair to you?

        • larmesdelhiver on 30/03/2021 - 10:42
          +2

          I'm not sure I follow your logic. Everyone uses the same amount of road and driving. Why should someone pay more for fines or in fact anything else just because they study for years and work hard and save and be responsible with their finances?

          • Drakesy on 30/03/2021 - 12:40

            @larmesdelhiver: What @Orangetrain says actually has some merit to it. It's actually the case in Finland where your fine is scaled to your income as it's less of an incentive not to speed the richer you are.

            Although i don't quite agree with the tax on the poor side of things.

          • [Deactivated] on 30/03/2021 - 20:50
            +1

            @larmesdelhiver: If this were the case maybe taxes should be flat just like the fine ;)

        • p1 ama on 30/03/2021 - 21:03

          If you prefer, there could be scaling fines. Lets say she's 70k per year for $850. If you're paid 700k, you should pay $8500 scaled up. Would this sound fair to you?

          I'm not against a variable fine depending on your income/wealth, but it doesn't change the fact that fines are not a "tax on the poor". It is a tax on those who do the wrong thing who might be poor.

          • abb on 31/03/2021 - 11:26

            @p1 ama: "tax on the poor" is a poor phrasing. I think what they meant is that "it's only a punishment to the poor".

    • RocketSwitch on 31/03/2021 - 13:24

      I hope you fall and break a bone just to atone for your sins and stuff not picked up by authorities.

      Seriously, take a hard look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself how you are making the world a better place.

    • MrSammyMcG on 31/03/2021 - 18:44

      No such thing as an honest mistake here, wow.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/03/2021 - 12:14

    youtube lol

    • [Deactivated] on 30/03/2021 - 08:39
      -5

      she should make an onlyfans page and post details here to pay for it

      • Other on 30/03/2021 - 13:24
        +1

        fyi: Not every female wants to do this. Im guessing your mum might not want to….
        But who knows.

        • Munki on 31/03/2021 - 09:45

          That's a lot of assumption. Redwood12's mum might already be on onlyfans…

  • Okayy on 29/03/2021 - 12:15
    +6

    What about CTP?

    • Blue Cat on 29/03/2021 - 16:04
      +6

      This is OzBargain… we don't have insurances here.

  • pegaxs on 29/03/2021 - 12:19
    +9

    InB4 the "tHiS iS jUsT rEvEnUe rAiSiNg. UnReGiStEriD VeHiCLe iS nOt A SaFeTy iSSuE" crowd turn up.

    Previous employer is under no obligation to forward any emails to her once she left/was terminated.

    As a driving instructor, she would be aware of the ramifications for driving an unregistered and thus uninsured vehicle.

    Maybe claim it as a tax deduction because she was teaching her students what could happen if they don't pay their rego??

    • mbck on 29/03/2021 - 13:17
      +1

      Don't think any fines are tax deductible.

      • dsar on 29/03/2021 - 20:02

        Absolutely not.

      • [Deactivated] on 30/03/2021 - 08:40

        stupidity isnt tax deductible either

        • Other on 30/03/2021 - 13:24

          Actually it is.

          • [Deactivated] on 30/03/2021 - 13:47

            @Other: Is it - plz point me in the direction so I can claim my stupid deductions

            • Other on 30/03/2021 - 13:48

              @[Deactivated]: If you employee a moron, you can deduct their wage and then you can deduct all the mistakes they make.

        • RocketSwitch on 31/03/2021 - 13:25

          Been claiming it year on year

    • brendanm on 29/03/2021 - 14:31
      +2

      Maybe claim it as a tax deduction because she was teaching her students what could happen if they don't pay their rego??

      😂

  • onetwothreefour on 29/03/2021 - 12:20
    +16

    It's completely my fault but how do I avoid my responsibilities?

    • SF3 on 29/03/2021 - 14:38

      Life lessons 101

    • Intoxicoligist on 30/03/2021 - 10:28
      +2

      Easy, be born rich.

      • onetwothreefour on 30/03/2021 - 11:19
        +3

        I'm definitely doing that in my next life.

      • Other on 30/03/2021 - 13:25
        +1

        101% works.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/03/2021 - 12:21
    +10

    When they removed the registration stickers from the windscreens and made it all electronic you could bet it was going to become a revenue raising exercise as people forgot registration was due.

    Australia: where you're punished even when you had no intention of breaking the law.

    • pegaxs on 29/03/2021 - 12:26
      +7

      Is 39, so an adult of some experience
      Always pays on time and knows rego has to be paid
      Is a driving instructor teaching others
      "Obviously her fault" admission
      Didn't update her email or postal details

      So, tell me again how this is the states fault…

        • kerfuffle on 29/03/2021 - 12:44
          +9

          they grew up expecting to see a rego sticker

          They also grew up without mobile phones, the internet, OzBargain … your point?

          Assuming OP's sister lives in the same state, rego stickers were abolished in Queensland in October 2014. Plenty of time to get used to it …

        • ESEMCE on 29/03/2021 - 12:53
          +5

          As a person exceeding 40 years, I certainly do not expect to see a Registration Sticker.
          They've been gone for years and good riddance, they were a bastard!

        • brendanm on 29/03/2021 - 14:36
          +6

          older generations

          She's 39, not 89. In saying that, my 85 year old grandmother has no problems paying her rego.

        • brendanm on 29/03/2021 - 14:37
          +6

          for the most minor infraction

          Driving with no CTP insurance is not a minor infraction at all. It's a major one.

    • dsar on 29/03/2021 - 20:06
      +1

      Australia: where you're punished even when you had no intention of breaking the law.

      What are you smoking? I believe this is true everywhere.

    • spaceflight on 30/03/2021 - 17:40

      Australia: where you're punished even when you had no intention of breaking the law.

      Where can I go to unintentionally break the law and not get in trouble?

    • RocketSwitch on 31/03/2021 - 13:26

      You're just describing the corrupt system of revenue making.

  • Ocker on 29/03/2021 - 12:24
    +13

    She should count her blessings she was not involved in an accident during the time her vehicle was not legally registered.

    • pegaxs on 29/03/2021 - 12:28
      +4

      This is what I was going to say… $850 seems a trifling amount compared to what it could have cost.

      • Banana on 29/03/2021 - 14:58
        +3

        Her insurance would be invalidated as well if she was involved in an accident. She could be paying a lot more than the $850 fine. Take it as an expensive lesson (for her and her students) and move on.

    • ToastySteve on 29/03/2021 - 17:33
      -2

      In researching this today, after all the comments about the lack of CTP… Unless I'm reading this wrong (and I may be), everyone has some sort of backup CTP. https://maic.qld.gov.au/about/nominal-defendant/

      It's definitely a more expensive route to take, but it wouldn't be life destroying like a lot of these posts make out. Nor would it cost tax payers a dime.

      • Ridiculous Panda on 29/03/2021 - 18:42
        +1

        Leave personal injuries aside and assuming she had car insurance, she would have had to pay out of pocket for ALL damages after an accident (probably even if she wasn’t at fault). Could really add up if she ran into a ferrari which is now a write-off and then a power pole that fell on a house? Life destroying to the average person I guess and it does happen.
        Does $850 still sounds too bad?

        • ToastySteve on 29/03/2021 - 19:03
          -1

          I think in that astronimically improbable, hypothetical situation MAIC comes in to play. If you become insolvent, they look after things in your stead.

          I think this is a little off track though. These posts seem to suggest $850 is the cost of CTP, instead of a fine for clerical mismanagement on her and in my view predominantly her ex-employers part.

          I do understand that things could've been worse, and if they had been then $850 is a small price to pay. But things could always be worse.

          • Piranha2004 on 29/03/2021 - 21:29
            +3

            @ToastySteve: There are cases galore for people stacking cars while unregistered. Why do you think the penalties are so high?

          • [Deactivated] on 30/03/2021 - 12:51

            @ToastySteve: Could you imagine how many unregistered cars would be on the road if they made it a trivial fine for "clerical mismanagement".

            From my position as another road user I think $850 is lenient, why should I have to deal with all the hassle that comes with an accident involving someone that is not insured?

            Pay the fine, learn the lesson and move on.

            Also in regards to the previous mail comment, where do you think that money comes from? People doing the right thing pay more CTP to cover those who like your sister drive unregistered and uninsured, whether there was intent is completely irrelevant.

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