Good price for an RTX 3070 prebuild with great specs!
Also Dell XPS 8940 Desktop 11th Gen Core i7-11700 16GB RAM 512GB SSD RTX 3060 Ti @ $1,859.00
Note: Ships middle to end of June.
Delivery time of over 1 month is what deters me =/
then there is a risk of the 3070 being LHR version.
they're supposed to mark LHR with a different name and model number
No, they're not. All GPU dies produced after the end of this month will be LHR cards. The only identifier required on a RETAIL box is the words "LHR" or "Light Hash Rate". On a pre-built like Dell, there is no requirement to differentiate.
According to Steve, non LHR versions will be continued to be produced alongside LHR for a short while, and then presumably stop.
They're marked with different SKUs, and silicon number on the chip itself and will have LHR marked on the retail box.
But yes 100% agree with you that pre-builts are probably under no requirement to differentiate, although Steve claims Nvidia is enforcing this so maybe they might/have to. who knows.
@lawyerz: Yeah agree. I guess we'll wait and see if they do enforce the labelling.
@CrushJelly: Hey mate. I appreciate that you're just trying to help… but you really shouldn't speak with authority on things you don't know for certain.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion based on the limited information available, but you should consider presenting it as an opinion or speculation, and not fact.
@AaronR: Fair points mate. All noted - and yes, speculation based on limited info shouldn't be explained by someone like me as if it were absolute fact.
For context, I was trying to normalise the expectation that anyone buying these pre-built systems would actually be told that they'd get a LHR or non-LHR. (IMO), that'd be unlikely. They'll just get what they are given.
Dell have weird shipping estimates, they always arrive way earlier than what they say, assuming their eBay page gives similar estimates as their website.
I bought the 2721QS from Dell website and it gave me an estimated of 25 business days. It arrived in a week.
I then bought a USB-C hub from Dell for my laptop and it told me 20 business days. It arrived in 3 days.
GamersNexus has done some coverage of the Dell G5 pre-build. Obviously a different model, but might be worth watching before buying a pre-built system from Dell.
TLDR: Not good.
Worse Than Walmart: Dell G5 5000 PC’s Garbage Parts & Hidden Charges
Dell's Dumpster Fire: Bloatware Uses 30% GPU (G5 5000 Review & Benchmarks)
yes, avoid Dell seriously.
Plus that with their sketchy sales-pushing customer support done by mystery shoppers by Linus and others.
"leftover part from Pentium 4" is my favourite quote from the video
and this made me laughed pretty hard
yea if its anything like that it will be a crippled GPU, non standard motherboard etc
This unit would have the same deal hardware wise.
The one saving grace with these prebuilts is that dell shit out so many that parts end up being on the cheaper side once the bulk go out of warranty. Plenty of places scrap them for their individual parts.
Sad thing is this wouldn't just be limited to Dell.
Yeah I watched that review and I felt that parts of it were unnecessarily harsh… I have a lot of respect for Steve, but I don't think he took the time to adjust his perspective and look at the unit for what it is. He judged it on criteria that just aren't important to the target audience.
There's no real problem with a custom board being used, because it's not supposed to be user serviceable.
A lot of the design was quite an effective way of bringing down costs and delivering a good user experience, using efficiencies you can only get if you're as big and integrated as Dell.
Using a larger board with less layers is just neat engineering, as is using the case in the way they did.
The fact that the VRM is not heatsinked is actually logical, as it's got a tonne of MOSFETs. There's probably no need for extra cooling there (steve didn't get the FLIR camera out), and all the extra VRM heatsinks are something that have actually annoyed designers for a while - see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxGqGCtPxn4
I'd love to see buildzoid's take on this.
Also, the custom 12V only power supply is way greener than anything from any other manufacturer, and will result in a much lower idle power consumption. It's not surprising that it's non standard when ATX12VO is so new. If you want to see how much more efficient, look at reviews of ATX12VO.
There are obviously issues with the fan curves that need fixing in BIOS. Their BIOS is abysmal, and the cooling arrangement was very poor… but if you think about it from a green perspective, the materials and power usage (e.g. copper, aluminum, plastic) is much lower when you've got everything a large low layer silcon board, with a very simple power supply.
Imagine buying 50 PCs and leaving them effectively idle all day. Machines like these have about half the valuable raw materials in them, they'd use half the idle power (once you blast away DellOS), and only have 10-15% less peak performance.
This isn't a prebuild, it's effectively a console with on-site support, upgradeable GPU and RAM… for mainstream users, I think that is not only a greener option, but has the potential to be a better option.
That said there's no way I'd ever buy a Dell. 😄
I can't say I agree that using a proprietary motherboard and PSU at this stage is 'greener' as it just encourages e-waste.
You can't resell it, you can't upgrade it, you dump the entire system and add to e-wastes. In your own words, it's not supposed to be user serviceable. Well, neither Dell or any other computer shops will upgrade it or maintain it for you in the future, so by definition it's a single use e-waste causing system. You couldn't even reuse the case.
I'd say he was harsh for a reason, is that the target audience wouldn't know better and all this abysmal problems would be hidden under the hood from the target audience
You can't resell it
You can't resell it
Looks at all the super popular Dell refurb deals on OzBargain…
@Tigerhacker: The dell refurbs you see are ex-gov and ex-education sector computers, typically Optiplexes (not Inspirons or XPS's) in small form factor sizes. Gamers and DIY computer builders are not after these types of PC's because they're too compact to fit in power hungry components and/or too much of a hassle to modify and upgrade. So in the eyes of a PC builder, these Optiplexes are looked down upon as a "secondary" pc, a HTPC or something cheap they buy for their kids and parents.
They are plentiful of these in the second market as a result of their popularity (business customers) but once they are retired and sold to end consumers they are sold at rock bottom prices of $100~300 max.
If these Optiplexes were full tower and could be upgraded with full phat GPU's and standard ATX power supplies etc they would be in much higher demand, but many stores still have pallets and warehouses full of these older SFF systems that are just getting retired from businesses large and small.
The simple reality is that the target audience are the sort of people who don’t reuse cases, motherboards, etc. This is a user who will have whatever box they buy for 5 or so years, and then it will be on the street. They’re no more likely to repair it than their microwave. All that extra flexibility that you and I value is just waste if the customer is incapable of taking advantage of it.
@p3rsonally: It always makes me laugh when IT geeks don't realise that 99% of the population does not build their own PC and constantly upgrade individual parts. It is exactly like a microwave to most people.
Add a Noctua U9S cpu cooler and Noctua NF-A9 PWM rear fan and the system is fine for most uses, including gaming. I got the 10th gen K cpu version and my CPU never throttles and never goes over 70C now in an ambient temp room in Qld.
GamersNexus were overly harsh, the Dells are acceptable in today’s GPU market in my opinion.
A few cheap case mods and they run great apparently.
That's an amazing thread, thanks for sharing!
Although given the complexity of the mods I think GamersNexus was appropriately harsh, great thread and a good option for anyone that purchases none the less.
my understanding is that LHR cards are getting manufactured sometime in May (not sure of exact date). If the cards stocked by Dell are batches from before may it won't be LHR.
Copy and pasted from Nvidia's media statement: Today, we’re taking additional measures by applying a reduced ETH hash rate to newly manufactured GeForce RTX 3080, RTX 3070 and RTX 3060 Ti graphics cards. These cards will start shipping in late May https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2021/05/18/lhr/
On ebay listing, Estimated shipping is between Tue. 22 Jun. and Tue. 29 Jun. This likely means it will be using newly manufactured GPU's.
They'd be shipping to retailers as we speak, yeah.
The last I heard was that the delay in fulfilling R12 systems is they are waiting on video card stock.
Sucks that this is bad because it seems like this is a decent way to upgrade to a new complete system ATM if your old rig has died.
Please notice the power supply is only 500w and can not be upgraded.
Well that's super crappy of dell I must say. 😔 Rooky mistake on my part, I assumed these could be upgraded when I ordered mine during the week. The alienware option has expired I think.
Got the same one but the10700k version, great specs but had alot of overheating problems when mining/gaming. I ended up having to replace the case and cooler to get it to stop running so hot
Did the mainboard and psu fit into a normal atx case?
I ordered an R12 over a week ago, this is what chat just told me:
"We are not using the Low Hash Rate Nvidia Cards. It will be with the normal Nvidia cards".
Take that what you will.
Yeah, had another mate get different from chat. Dell couldn't confirm whether his R12 build will be using a LHR card or pre-LHR card.
The fact your chat person mentioned "normal" Nvidia card leads me to believe they have no idea what they are talking about.
There is no such thing as a non-LHR normal card. LHR cards will be the norm going forward.
Yeah i agree with you, hence my "take that what you will". So much conflicting information.
Puts dell in a bit of a bind tbh:
If all new cards are LHR, dell has no choice but to use them in their builds
Nvidia has stated that the cards should be marked as LHR before selling them.
Which leaves the question, what does dell do?
Inform their customers that orders already placed will be with new LHR
just put in a LHR card, opening themselves up to mass returns.
Wonder how they will take returns on people unhappy with LHR cards… is that a good enough reason to return a non faulty machine?
@pharkurnell: It will be interesting how it plays out, because like it or not, some people would have bought them to mine, or at least partly mine, and to then go ahead and "change the deal after the fact" does open them up I would think for returns.
You only have to look at NVIDIAs statement regarding this, that the LHR will be clearly marked, because they know itd open them up to returns if they didnt inform customers.
@pharkurnell: In Australia, "Doesn't do what I believed it would do" is enough to get a full refund. As in, was not advertised as being LHR.
Or, "not fit for purpose" as the purpose was to mine.
@TheSnyper: The thing is, buyers bought a "3070" system. They didn't buy a "full hash rate 3070" system.
If the description is silent on LHR/non-LHR, I'd say 50:50 that anyone could really argue that a LHR 3070 was not appropriately described.
@CrushJelly: Both of my points are still valid. As an example, I bought a home theatre package a few years ago. Once I got it set up I realised it didn't do something I believed it did (can't remember what). I got an instant refund as soon as I said that to the salesperson.
@CrushJelly: They didnt buy a "low hash rate 3070" system either.
Also a LHR 3070 didnt exist when the order was purchased.
Which is why the person buying would assume the full HR version.
@dmcneice: Can debate the topic til the cows come home. At the end of the day, they are selling a 3070 system. Buyers would receive a 3070 system. There is never any advertisement of its hash rate capabilities, therefore any reduction in HR would not preclude it from being a "3070 system".
That's my interpretation and opinion. Others can have a different one - that's their prerogative.
I'm simply setting expectations for the worst case scenario.
@CrushJelly: Just because its a 3070 by name, doesnt mean its the same thing as its ordered. If you ordered a certain car capable of doing x, and then during the lag time for them to make it they throttle it so it can only do half that, how is that not changing the deal.
Yes it still has the same name and all other features, but one feature is still changed AFTER the fact.
@dmcneice: As I said, it's my interpretation.
You are welcome to have a different interpretation.
I'm happy that you believe in your interpretation, but it doesn't mean that I am obligated to agree with it.
"Selling them", I interpreted as retail sales (with retail box). Whereas a Dell pre-built is somewhat different. It's not like Dell are selling each individual component of a system. They are selling the built system as a whole.
Hence I interpreted NVIDIA requiring all AIBs to mark their cards as LHR to not really be relevant to Dell.
Not sure this is competitive against the Alienware Ryzen 5800 deals.
Wasn't an almost identical system $1800 last month? Crypto is thankfully dropping, LHR is on the way, save your cash.
Not dropping, 30% increase last 24hrs
0.73% for BTC, 4.67% for ETH. That's like 50% of all crypto right there.
The whole market has dipped like 35% since May 10th, and while it's recovered from the initial announcement shock, people are fools if they think the government regulation will begin and end there.
Good luck with your fake money.
also the Alienware R12 - Core i9 11900KF RTX 3090 32GB RAM 1TB NVMe 2TB HDD $4903.29 @ Dell 3Yrs Premium Support and Onsite Service plus using LOVEKEANU plus 1.5% cashback and qantas 2 points per $1 spent which is not bad.
Reply below from dell on eBay.
The unit comes with the normal/full version of the NVIDIA® GeForce® RTX 3060 Ti™ 8GB GDDR6.
With regards to the delivery, orders are generally processed and fulfilled within 10-15 working days as the unit is being built upon order as stated in the listing. However, we will endeavour to get the item to you as quickly as possible should you decide to purchase.
spoke to a number of person at Dell , seems no one knows what LHR is all about, I will take this reply with a grain of salt.
Parts used in dell systems all tend to be garbage. cooling also isnt great at all
Yeah the recent dell prebuild reviews on GN seem to bash the crap out of these systems.
The i7-11700k XPS 8940's come with a better tower cooler than the stock intel cooler on the other models
Somebody broden'd these and is using for mining.
Are these units really as bad as everyone makes out they are? I've seen negative comments on the last gen cause of the CPU fan, but that looks to be greatly upgraded in this version?
How would this compare to a similarly prices gaming laptop?
I think this one should be fine. 2139 is the best price on this model yet, same as last sale (the one before is 2149).
Found this video on YouTube, should be the exact model: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSWO0D3Qwx4
It's really not that bad, even without the GPU price hype, similar PC build would go to the $2000 range.
If portability is not an issue, go with a desktop - the performance ceiling is really not in the same level, even if a Dell pre-build can overheat.
Friends don't let friends buy Dell pre-builds.
Mixed experience with Dell games PCs, VERY good experience with their office machines.
Delivery time on my last one (admittedly over Christmas) was just on 3 months….
Just wondering how much the Dell RTX 3070 can be sold on ebay? I want to buy this PC but no use of the dell 3070.
I saw the same machine without GPU on Gumtree for around $1000. So you can figure it out from there.
However this is a short chassis so triple blower style card might not fit inside.
Always try to get the K variant CPU model. The non-K model's internal cooling is not ideal.
Can anyone think of any downside to using this unit without the GPU (so use onboard only) as an office machine?
No downside. It's perfectly capable of that. Just be aware that the GPU market is currently cautious if you were hoping to sell the GPU and keep the machine.
You would also be waiting over 1 month for stock.
Might be easier to just buy a Dell machines without a GPU from the many many sellers on eBay/Gumtree etc.
Just in case people are still looking into this deal, my order is dated for shipping in late June, and delivery on early July.
It won't be a problem if you don't mind waiting, but definitely not a good idea for those who want a PC immediately.