Hey everyone,
I recently thought today of companies that I actively avoid and the reasons why.
Harvey Norman is one for keeping JobKeeper payments and Nestlé due to multiple reasons.
Please explain in the comments which companies you boycott. An explanation and link to relevant documentation/articles would be good!
I know reasons for Kogan and Harvey Norman, but what is going on with Afterpay?
Stores have jacked up prices just in case you use Afterpay/Zip/Etc which they have to pay a commission
@Nebargains: Afterpay merchant fee is 4-6%
They don’t add this on top of your purchase price, think it’s coming straight out of profit?
Think about it… Afterpay wouldn’t exist if the customer paid the merchant fees like Visa/MasterCard/Amex
@bloom: so your answer is no, you have no proof whatsoever. Numerous justifications for merchants paying a higher fee to Afterpay than to traditional payment providers.
I assume you boycott Visa and Mastercard too?
@bloom: Are you boycotting companies that pay the cleaners of their stores, the electricity to run the lighting, the staff to stock the products for including those costs in their margins too?
@chasingstoke: You can't find cleaners for a quarter of the price, you can't get 75% off electricity, you can't get staff for 25% of the price.
Normally visa/mastercard fees + bank processing fees are 0.5-1.5% max.
Afterpay charges merchants 6%, and don't return this fee even if they give the customer a refund.
The customer chooses to use afterpay. The customer cannot choose not to use electricity, have a clean store, have no staff.
@Nebargains: It's not a concept that requires proof, it's fundamental to how businesses operate. The services cost money, that cost is invariably passed on to consumers.
@nussbuster: that's why i got rid of my american express card i was sick of constantly paying 2% extra every time i used it
@cybapete: Not that I used it but I had heaps of work colleagues use American Express to book work related accommodation, flights, food etc.
It helps when you're getting reimbursed by the company and get to claim the points.
@cybapete: @cybapete, this is why I have a Diners card that I don't think I've ever used. It gets extra points, but the points aren't worth the surcharge. If I could ever find anywhere that took it without a surcharge then I'd use it, but I haven't yet.
@macrocephalic: IIRC, Diners was good for getting airport lounge access - not that its of any use at the moment!. Coles and wollies accept Diners without surcharge.
@macrocephalic: Coles Woolies some EBGames Ebgames online Hardly Normal Hotels.com Myer onsite DJ take Diners I think
@nussbuster: The business however makes more money because they get the sale rather than the customer not buying it right away. Same with EFTPOS as that incurs a merchant fee as well.
@nussbuster: Not necessarily. Say you're make 200 sales at 2% merchant fees. Now with Afterpay you're making an additional 50 sales at 4-6% merchant fees. The store is still going to be making more money with no need to increase prices.
@nussbuster: That's an oversimplification. Demand / supply dynamics determine how much (if any) price/cost increase is passed on to the consumer. Retailers may not have the competitive power to pass on the cost and may have to eat the loss. Alternatively, it may be beneficial for them to eat the loss of margins for the higher sales volume Afterpay sales may enable.
The price of a good is determined by the willingness of the buyer to pay and the willingness of the seller to sell at that price. Costs only determine if that is sustainable in the long term. Even then, there are plenty of markets (e.g. internet companies) where services are given away as loss leaders in perpetuity because value is generated indirectly (cross-selling, other product lines, sold at a loss initially to gain market share).
@brendanm: They're not forced to have AfterPay.
I'd like to see examples and proof still.
I know the prices are higher for everyone in most places that accept credits cards due to the reward systems.
@jaimex2: I think the point is that businesses that use AfterPay are unable/unwilling to add a surcharge (could be against AfterPay ToS?).
Prices are not (usually) jacked for credit cards as the business is able to pass the fee on.
And whilst yes the businesses are not forced to use AfterPay, if they don't they risk losing those customers who want to use it (which is apparently a decent number)
https://www.thesquiz.com.au/shortcuts/squiz-shortcuts-buy-no…
@Nebargains: in 2019 i had to replace house worth of stuff after Townsville flood most of it was AMart stuff my chair were 499 each and now same chair on sale is 899 full pirce is 1399 it SPARTACUS if you want to check.
This is the same as UberEats. Restaurants regularly add $2-3 per main item to account for the Uber commission, and then you're charged delivery on top of that.
@MoshPitShaq: Yeah but you can bypass that by going direct.
Were talking about the Afterpay checkout option right?
@MoshPitShaq: Sure they do.
But I’ve also seen restaurants not accept the base menu item unless it’s past of a meal (chips + drink)
So your up for $20 just eat a kebab. It’s a joke
Thing is I don’t each chips or soft drink.
and you think PayPal is free.
I don't believe this is anymore true for Afterpay than it is for EFTPOS and credit card.
Besides, don't mess with Afterpay!! I bought shares at about $36 and I like the way they're tracking!!!!
@imurgod: the company operates at a loss, the shares are only up thanks to central banks keeping interest rates low
@oshe: That's not all how it works.
Either way, I bought at $36 and they're at $135.10 today.
They were recently aquired by Square as well, so might consider selling soon and but another house.
Why does this have so many upvotes? I don't use Afterpay but I think they get a lot of hate from people who missed out on the stock rise last year.
Say they do jack up prices in anticipation of customers using BNPL. Is that really Afterpay/Z1P's fault?
Do we also blame Mastercard, Visa, and Apple as well?
@Hunter14: Perhaps people simply don't like how it increases consumerism, like me. I'm not butthurt about the share price, as I said in another comment, it's never something I would have invested in anyway.
If you like afterpay, feel free to neg me.
@brendanm: I'm not negging you mate and I can understand your side of it.
Ethically speaking, all finance companies are similar - Banks, BNPL, Credit Cards. They're all after your money and may 'trick' you to get it.
However, it's not fair to just single out Afterpay. You need to bunch them all together if you want to boycott. But hey, it's a free country so you do you.
@Hunter14: They don't though, not in the same way. If I go to buy a ps5 on credit card, I still see the $750 price tag, and decide that maybe I'll hang onto the PS4 for a bit longer. With afterpay, by design, I see a $190 price tag. Hey, that's cheap, I'll buy it now!
It's just how I feel about it, if others agree, all good, if they don't, all good as well, it's not like me not using afterpay is going to stop them being around.
They don't though, not in the same way. If I go to buy a ps5 on credit card, I still see the $750 price tag, and decide that maybe I'll hang onto the PS4 for a bit longer. With afterpay, by design, I see a $190 price tag. Hey, that's cheap, I'll buy it now!
That's just called being a moron and making dumb decisions…
@p1 ama: I think you vastly overestimate the majority of the population. Afterpay shares went through the roof for a reason, and more and more retailers are accepting it for a reason. Reason being, psychologically, people see the smaller price, and buy.
People should only use middleman like after Pay, Uber Eats only when they offer good discount otherwise boycott them. This way they won't survive for long.
I am surprised how prices of food items have been jacked up + service fees + delivery fees + priority fees and people still order through them.
My problem is afterpay keeping a considerable amount after cancelled orders.
so you pay the bnpl tax but don't get any of its benefit, very smart
Amart jack up prices used to sell cheap good stuff.
For price hijack you are really talking about uber eat, menulog, doordash etc. They hi jack the price and also charge delivery fee separately to give you the feeling delivery is cheap. Should all be fined.
I always thought you were clueless .
Afterpay Ebay deals are the golden egg of all deals the last 2 years hehe :)
Enjoy paying much much much more elsewhere .
@popsiee: Good luck with your next home loan application. Well done supporting a company that tricks people who are poor with money, into spending money they don't have. It's something to be proud of. I'd rather not support them, than get the "savings" on some shit I didn't actually need anyway.
I would rather pay more, than give these companies money.
@brendanm: I don't need any loans . I'm finishing my final transaction with the deal finishing in a few hrs .
I love giving corps dough if they are the cheapest price . :)
I don't need any loans
Yet here you are with afterpay.
I love giving corps dough if they are the cheapest price
Good for you, I don't. Isn't the world an amazing place.
@brendanm: Not sure where you are coming from. I had 5 bnpl accounts for discounts and cashbacks. Afterpay was literally the only one bank didn't enquire me about. Zip/khlarna/latpay etc were flagged but wouldn't affect your score so long as your bnpl were paid on time.
It is true that you have to close account otherwise they're considered in the same category as credit card and will reduce your borrow power significantly however with 50 bucks outstanding it really wasn't much of an issue. Just provide banks with proof of closure.
Got a loan 2 months ago. CS near 900
@deneb: You do you. Why you need to pay something off in 4 payments rather than just buying it is beyond me.
@brendanm: Like a credit card for poor people?
My credit card gives 60 days free interest free, is after pay any different?
Apart from the fact it charges more to the store?
Its just credit card for millennials
@brendanm: Aside from the discounts i've already mentioned, theres also opportunity cost. If someone is giving me an 2k loan for 2 months with absolutely no fees, I'm going to take it. The available cash can go into a small swing trade, high interest account or offset the house mortgage. EG. something as simple as IOZ ETF from comsec pocket went up 1.5% 30 days less fees and cg tax.
A responsible user who understands the T&C can take advantage of the promotions and opportunity cost at no fee at all.
For sure, you can talk forever about split payments luring kids into overspending on unneccesary purchases, but so is every advertisement in existance. It should be the responsiblity of the user to assess their needs and financials, not payment providers or other people.
People who claim these services are spend traps are simply using it wrong. it's like holding a saw upside down then blame the manufacturor for creating a dangerous tool.
@deneb: You would be about the 0.1% who uses it like that.
I guess I just hate consumerism for the sake of it, which is what this seems to promote, but as you say, so does everything these days.
Lots of people aren't very financially literate, and I just feel that this is taking advantage of it.
@brendanm: Come on man, they take those 4 payments and put it into share trading. Diamond hands. To the moon. Apes. All that nonsense. By the end of 2 months their $50 purchase is now worth millions.
@brendanm: yes i can easily double the money I would have to pay upfront in 8 weeks given the current circumstances
@brendanm: 8 weeks is 2 months but yes, i started this year with about $20k portfolio, now it's worth $100k
@brendanm: just like how people are holding for msrp gpu, i heard it was going to be soon about 10 months ago
@brendanm: What are the "tricks people who are poor with money"? (FYI, not being a douche, just interested in how they tick people)
@connorlo: People see item A for $800. They don't want to spend $800, that's a fair bit to outlay for something they don't actually need. They then see item A for "only" $200 a fortnight. Hey, $200 isn't that much, then I can have item A even though I don't really need it.
They have still spent $800 that they didn't necessarily have, on an item they didn't need, but it "seemed" cheaper.
@brendanm: thanks, @brendanm. I don't necessarily see that as a problem, unless they are directly targeting those people knowing that they can't do addition to work out the final cost. Has there been memo/documents showing that (again not being a douche, just a lot of people just say stuff nowadays without the ability to back it up so I kinda take the approach that without the facts its prob not true)
@connorlo: Why do you think retailers want to get on board with it? People buy more things as they seem cheaper. I actually know people that buy more things because "it's only $x".
What is the advantage in paying it over 4 payments, apart from it "being cheaper"? None.
Well done supporting a company that tricks people who are poor with money, into spending money they don't have.
I used to really believe in this line of thinking, I had an argument with a mate who invested in afterpay, I was also going to invest but thought their business model was predatory. He made a truckload on it, so I'm sure there was also some saltiness on my behalf
But then I realised I have shares in banks and they issue credit cards with much more punitive penalties for late payment, and allow you to borrow much more.
Afterpay don't seem that bad. Their fees seem reasonable, and their overall limits are low enough that you can't get yourself in too much financial trouble with them.
Potentially Afterpay fees push up costs for retailers, but this is only true if afterpay sales are replacing organic sales. Otherwise it's just reducing their margins on additional sales, which isn't pushing up prices. The reality of the situation won't be that clear cut, but it's not a given that it increases base prices for consumers. But at the same time you're not rallying against cashback sites that also erode the sellers margins…
But at the same time you're not rallying against cashback sites that also erode the sellers margins…
I also don't use the cashback sites.
Your mate would have made out well investing in afterpay. I never would have invested in it, as I'm stupid and often can't see the value in things that others may see, I didn't see how having a service that let you pay things off in 4 payments would ever be worth that amount.
@brendanm: Yeah, it's crazy that it went up so much. I was going to invest on the back of some website tip (maybe motley fool) but then did a bit more research and it wasn't a company i wanted to put my money into.
Having said that I've lost more money than I've made when listening to motley fool, they're an absolute joke.
Yeah, it's crazy that it went up so much. I was going to invest on the back of some website tip (maybe motley fool) but then did a bit more research and it wasn't a company i wanted to put my money into.
At the end of the day, you have to be happy with putting money into something, and hindsight is always 20/20.
@Bren20: Yeah - I wasn't sure if Motley fool was some predatory subscription model and subscribed to their free newsletter.
After a year or two of them I realised Motley fool talk up every possible stock, and a year or two later when people forget everything they cherry pick the ones with high return and go all 'bitcoin' on how they made shitloads of return on it.
I've kept track of a fair few of their suggestions and a significant amount of them didn't move or lost money - it's basically talking up a diversified portfolio really with some clickbait: In the end I just started a Vanguard account and bought ETFs.
@wimphrel: Interesting that you've done the analysis, I'd suspected this was probably what was going on but I didn't look at it any further.
Pretty deceptive, lots of naive investors money on the line and they don't seem to care
@Bren20: The issue for me was… people aren't that stupid… on so many different levels…
yes they are….
, I didn't see how having a service that let you pay things off in 4 payments would ever be worth that amount.
It's not and it possibly never will be.
But some people see it and believe it could be, and so it is worth that much (to them at least).
And even if they never make their money back on the business, think about all the user data they'll get…
@brendanm: 'than get the "savings" on some shit I didn't actually need anyway'
That's half of OzB in a nutshell, so why bother being on here?
@R4: So true, like many nutheads who claim to boycott Chinese made products but are here on Ozbargain hoping to score a bargain.
@popsiee: Yep. Afterpay deals are awesome.
I don't get all the angst over Afterpay, Zip, Latitude etc. I think that what they offer is great - and nobody is forced to use them. If people can't control their spending, that's their issue and debt can be racked up by lot's of different means.
Here comes the neg squad!
After never gave me my right share of referral, So my reason of boycotting, is their FALSE ADVERTISEMENT TO ME
Because it's owned by Zionist Jews who prop up Israel
So boycott any store offering Afterpay?
No, afterpay itself, and bargain the prices down at JB etc. Can't do much about the others.
Yep, that's why it is insane people think that it doesn't increase costs because it increases sales. It decreases sales because of boycotts
plus all made in china
all made in china
So what you wear, what you drive, what your family wears, where are the components of your phone/Laptop/PC from ??
You may need to boycott yourself if living in Australia, with you buying nothing from China. Literally Chinese products are everywhere and nothing is replacing them anytime soon, not at least in your local Bunnings, Kmart, Big W, target etc.
Including Uyghur
I deleted my Afterpay account because of their shocking customer service. You know what I mean when you have to deal with them one day.
Any company which doesn’t support vaccination.
I think you clicked "reply" when you meant to "post new comment".
Didn't neg you by the way.
Maybe I'm clueless, what's up with Kogan?
Kogan due to being a dodgy company notorious for grey market imports without disclosure, lack of decent customer service and poor practises like price jacking. Not to mention being sued/fined several times and labelled as shonky by Choice.
Products from a certain despicable country due to political and moral reasons.
Like mobleiciti
what? MobileCiti has good rep here
Kogan
Harvey Norman
Afterpay