Disputing Disabled Parking Fine Query

L[Deactivated] on 31/08/2021 - 13:55
Last edited 31/08/2021 - 15:14 by 2 other users

You crafty folks of OzBargain.

Long story short, my fiancé borrowed her colleagues car to come home during her work lunch break to take medication for a condition. The car's owner has a disability and a valid disability permit that is displayed. Without putting too much thought in to it, my fiancé then proceeded to park in a disabled spot and subsequently got fined by a police officer who saw her.

Now, she has no disability, so yeah, the fine is valid…albeit extremely steep. Yes, she was wrong… just trying to figure out if there's a way to soften the blow.

Is there any rationale/argument that you can think of that may help her chances of getting off?

Cheers folks.

Edit. Thanks everyone for your replies.

Automotive

Comments

  • tsunamisurfer on 31/08/2021 - 13:58
    +329

    Your fiance (able bodied) decided to use a disabled parking spot because she knew the car has a sticker.

    In what universe does this person warrant sympathy / a second chance / a reprieve?

    Get out before she becomes a wife.

      • GG57 on 31/08/2021 - 14:08
        +85

        The old double-negative….are you a politician?

        • htc on 31/08/2021 - 20:47

          You taught me something new today!

          • ATangk on 31/08/2021 - 21:56
            +43

            @htc: A real politician would have started with:
            “Can I just thank the police force for the wonderful job they have done policing our streets.”

            • Baysew on 01/09/2021 - 09:06
              +9

              @ATangk: …"I can't stress this enough"

            • htc on 01/09/2021 - 23:12

              @ATangk: I could literally hear her voice as I read it.

          • bejahi on 01/09/2021 - 13:51

            @htc: No, he didn't fail to teach you something that was not already known today.

            • htc on 01/09/2021 - 23:13

              @bejahi: So who makes a triple negative statement? A lawyer?

        • Lastchancetosee on 01/09/2021 - 09:26
          +1

          "I don't accept the premise of that question".

      • havebeerbelywillsumo on 31/08/2021 - 16:17
        +1

        Did you mean "was", otherwise you deserve those negs ("politician" LOL)

      • smashman42 on 01/09/2021 - 15:08
        +21

        As a disabled person with an "invisible disability" that is eligible for a parking permit but chose not to get one because of all the harassment we get when we try to use stuff like this but "look normal" - people like your fiance are why I don't feel safe even getting this permit and using what I'm entitled to - of course I get harassed when ableds use the spots all the time!

        • CMH on 01/09/2021 - 22:49
          +6

          Hell, someone even confronted me about my disability permit (temporary while I recover from my broken leg) when I was still using crutches!

          • Kangal on 02/09/2021 - 18:36
            +4

            @CMH: .
            Obviously! I mean the sign clearly shows Wheelchair people only!

            /s

        • whyisave on 03/09/2021 - 15:10

          i learnt a new word today:
          " ableds "

          :-)

          • smashman42 on 03/09/2021 - 15:34
            +1

            @whyisave: Also "ableism", the discrimination disabled people face - every other discriminated against minority got some shorthand term rather than just saying the long version, but of course most people have never even heard of ableism.

      • gimli on 01/09/2021 - 22:28
        +2

        It's not just a poor choice!

        What about you think about the person who may have actually needed the parking spot but couldn't park there because you thought it was all fine as long as you didn't get caught.

    • PopCounty on 31/08/2021 - 21:24
      +21

      Get out before she becomes a wife.

      Somebody even thinking of leniency in this case, kind of ascertains the person would do the same in that situation. So it’s a match as being couple.

      • Boogerman on 01/09/2021 - 09:27
        +1

        Ha ha! Brilliant response!

    • anonymous01 on 31/08/2021 - 21:42
      +47

      "Get out before she becomes a wife."

      I think that's also a bit steep, judging someone over one wrong action. OP knows her much more than we do, all her good and bads, let him make his own decisions.

      I know a lot of people who've made mistakes in moment of unclarity, doesn't mean they are bad person overall. Yes this was an a**hole move, I get it, but it doesn't define her whole personality, especially if we don't know her at all.

      As for the fine, I think you have no way out OP. If she did the crime, she has to pay the fine.

      • tsunamisurfer on 31/08/2021 - 21:49
        +18

        I think that's also a bit steep, judging someone over one wrong action.

        This isn't a simple mistake or a misjudgement.

        This is someone taking advantage of a situation.

        • anonymous01 on 31/08/2021 - 22:39
          +13

          I agree, that's why I said it is an a**hole move. I never said it was an accident or mistake.

          Which one of us has never done that? When a deal gets posted where the price is obviously an error, do we not all jump on and order that item and hope that the company honours it? Who amongst us, hasn't tried to take advantage of a situation which favours us? Does that one action deserves for us to be judged for our whole personality? We are humans, we make mistakes, we learn from it, we move on. I don't think there is a need to judge others. She made a mistake, and hopefully learns from it.

        • HealthHazard on 01/09/2021 - 14:19
          +1

          Sorry, didn't mean to neg - up-voted in error and cant seem to reverse that :(

        • coffeeinmyveins on 03/09/2021 - 09:41

          This is someone taking advantage of a situation.

          And that means you shouldn't be with theM? DIdn't realise that ozb was full of such amazing saints that have never done anything wrong!

          It's easy to judge, from your armchair.

      • picklewizard on 01/09/2021 - 11:34
        +5

        "I'm not disabled, but this car I'm borrowing from a disabled person has a disabled permit. I am entitled to use that permit."

        it doesn't define her whole personality

        Yeah, it does, much like people who litter, and people who leave their trolleys next to their car.

        • BargnHuntr on 02/09/2021 - 15:21

          for which she got fine.. move on..

          • picklewizard on 02/09/2021 - 17:18

            @BargnHuntr: Yet here we are participating in a 3+ page thread about it, why are you telling me specifically to move on?

    • kaleidoscope on 01/09/2021 - 10:08
      -2

      Happens more often than you think. I’ve seen tesla / bmw owners casually park in disabled spot and goes to nearby shop to grab things

    • Dowhatuwant on 01/09/2021 - 14:10
      -4

      Is that not how it works? Assumed that shit was like a parking permit, not like a disabled person is usually in the car while its parked.

    • Creamsoda on 01/09/2021 - 20:50

      With the OP posting here knowing what she's done and wants to wiggle his way out of paying it shows they are a perfect match. not to mention the likely fabrication in his post about how the police were lay in waiting and some how were able to judge disability by looking at her appearance further proves that.

  • Platinumtelecom on 31/08/2021 - 13:59
    +55

    I have a feeling this is not the full story… Borrows a car with disable sticker and just happens to park in a disable spot near your home and bad luck a police officer is there and happens to just be watching her…

    Hmmm 🤔

      • Platinumtelecom on 31/08/2021 - 14:07
        +114

        Considering disability is not necessarily physical and “obvious” somehow I don’t believe a police officer would approach anyone parking in a disabled spot like this randomly.

        Sorry OP not buying it

        • ChocStrawberries on 31/08/2021 - 14:50
          +64

          100% agreed. See my comment below. I look younger than I am, and don't always look disabled. Some days are better than others! Yet I've never been approached by a policeman and asked to prove that the permit is mine. They would need to have a reason to do so, and looking young and able-bodied wouldn't be one of them. I suspect there's more to this story, too.

          Either way, she got what she deserved, and hopefully learned a lesson!

          • Montyjpm on 31/08/2021 - 16:45
            +7

            @ChocStrawberries: "take medication for a condition" - meet Capt'n Cook and Walter White to buy "you-know-what"

          • smashman42 on 01/09/2021 - 15:12

            @ChocStrawberries: Do you get harassed by non cops trying to "police" the spots tho?

            Maybe cause I'm male people are more happy to get confrontational or even go the punch on cause they can't see my disability

            • ChocStrawberries on 01/09/2021 - 17:44
              +5

              @smashman42: A lot of old people give me dirty looks, and will even go right up to my windscreen to see if there's a permit. Some have shaken their heads at me. In the ACT we don't have photo permits, sadly, because that would shove it right up them! Haha!

              I've only been abused twice when parked in a disabled spot, funnily enough, by people who had no right to be there! Both had parked in the yellow cross-hatch area behind my car (which is classed as part of the disabled spot, for ease of access to the car, and is illegal to park in) so I couldn't get to my boot to put my walker away. Both times they chose to abuse me, telling me to go (profanity) myself, get a life, find something else to whinge about, called me a Karen, etc. One of them even had a NSW disability permit on his car, which had the DOB and photo of a 17 year old girl. She wasn't with him, he'd just pulled in there to get his takeaway from the kebab shop next to my spot. When I mentioned the permit to him, he said he was just driving her car today, "So what?" Some people just think they can do what they want.

              I've never had a punch on, but I think my fancy walking stick would come out on top if I did! ;)

        • Drakesy on 31/08/2021 - 22:53
          +3

          Agreed
          Do the police even have the ability to enforce this? I didn't think its their jurisdiction.
          I wouldve thought it'd be council rangers or car park parking inspectors

          • Montyjpm on 01/09/2021 - 12:51

            @Drakesy: Police is there to deal with many crimes at many places. The parking spot is a common, public area and therefore, do not need warrant. If you say they don't in the car park then drug dealers should be operating in there instead of outside the train stations.

            • Drakesy on 01/09/2021 - 13:17

              @Montyjpm: What does the relevance of having a warrant have to do with a disabled parking spot? What about private carparks?

              Also some research, turns out it's not the police, it's the local government that enforces it, or if on private property the carpark's owner. I think the OP isn't telling the whole story.

              Who can enforce the laws about misuse of disability parking spaces?
              Local government parking inspectors enforce the local law on public roads and parking spaces administered by local government.

              Owners of private car parks (such as hospitals, shopping centres and clubs) may also enter into an agreement with local governments, to allow parking inspectors to issue parking infringement notices.

              Source: https://www.qld.gov.au/disability/out-and-about/travel-trans…

              • Montyjpm on 02/09/2021 - 07:47
                -1

                @Drakesy: Mate, if the copper wanted to push it further he can charge the girlfriend with using the disabled sign to commit fraud and that would by-pass the parking law easily. Didn't you read on that judge in Sydney that did the speeding and then blamed on someone that already been dead so the police charged him with a much higher crime that carries prison term (instead of speeding) and he went to prison for it. That's how they operate if they wanted to stick it to you.

        • terrys on 01/09/2021 - 10:58
          +5

          The Australian disabled parking permits are numbered, and the officer can trivially check the age and gender of the permit holder.

          • Antikythera on 01/09/2021 - 11:40
            +1

            @terrys: that's a pretty good feature i didn't know existed and makes a lot of sense.

            I used to use my mums permit when taking her to the doctor's office so we could park right out front and make getting her inside much easier for her. I then moved the car before going inside to sit with her. I never would have used it without her needing it. Some people are just arseholes.

        • CheeseBeans on 02/09/2021 - 10:20
          +3

          Yep. Weird/sceptical. A friend of mine is ~25, is completely fit and healthy, but has severe juvenile arthritis he has a parking permit for as sometimes he can't walk far at all. He's never been questioned about it by a cop/inspector.

          If this is what happens, sounds like she got flustered and immediately admitted fault (which there was), and she's more or less been punished for exactly what she did.

        • picklewizard on 02/09/2021 - 13:43

          Literally why permits exist, so nobody will challenge you. Also sus on OP…

        • juki on 02/09/2021 - 15:07

          but arent disability spots for people with physical illnesses? (genuine question, albeit i know looking for a spot can be depressing, enraging and lead to violent delusions)

      • p1 ama on 31/08/2021 - 15:21
        +10

        It's a poor choice and hence, there's a fine to deter such a poor choice in the future. She knew what she was doing was wrong. The system is working exactly as it should be.

        Also, disability permits belong to people, not cars. Cars are not disabled…

        Let me put your story a different way:

        Long story short, my fiancé borrowed her colleagues car to come home during her work lunch break to take medication for a condition. The car's owner has a driver's license. Without putting too much thought in to it, my fiancé (who does not have a license) then proceeded to drive the car and subsequently got fined by a police officer who saw her.

        Does this sound dumb to you? It's exactly the same case.

        • Kangal on 02/09/2021 - 18:44

          Wait, how do we know the OP (or "his fiance") does not have a driver's licence?

          Was this in a different thread, or comment?

    • us3rnam3tak3n on 31/08/2021 - 17:00
      +14

      I agree, the story presented doesn't seem plausible.

      A story I would believe:
      "I have been using an ACROD sticker that does not belong to me for an extended period. I got caught out. Please, community of tightarses, help me avoid the consequences of my own actions."

  • jjjaar on 31/08/2021 - 13:59
    +48

    FWIW that’s an awful pun.

    No. She has nothing. Lesson learned for her and everyone reading this.

    It absolutely infuriates me when people do this. My friend does it all the time with her dads car because it’s easier for her. Shame if someone actually needs the spaces she parks in.

    People with disabilities deserve better by our community.

    • [Deactivated] on 31/08/2021 - 14:01
      +1

      I didn't even notice the pun.. it is awful. I will correct this.

    • MrFrugalSpend on 31/08/2021 - 21:58
      +19

      I have never parked in a disabled parking spot.
      Literally the only time I have ever driven a person with a disability who had a permit to put on the dashboard, we went to lunch and a total d!ckhe@d who was not disabled (young female, no sticker…. (possibly OPs fiancee!!??)) parked in the only disabled parking stop outside the premises. With no safe place to stop and slowly get her out, my poor elderly disabled relative with her walker frame had to walk from about 25-30 spots further away. She really struggled and took 3 breaks and it ruined her experience and the mood of our lunch.

      The perpetrator appeared to be there for takeaway and left soon after oblivious, so probably thought it a victimless crime… it was not. My relative refused to let me confront her.

      But that could have been what OPs fiancee did to a person with a disability.
      The hide of asking this question during the Paralympics when awareness should be at a peak!

    • terrys on 01/09/2021 - 11:05
      +4

      I like the SA approach. It's a ~ $400 fine which immediately jumps to $3,000 should it be unsuccessfully challenged.

      I'm reminded of the time I was parked in a " Parent with Pram" spot at Westlakes and a women wound down her window and yelled - "You're not allowed to park there!" - as I was unloading my client's wheelchair to take it to the passenger door so he could get in.

      I held my cool, and merely told her that while "Parent with prams" sign was descriptive, an Access parking sign was prescriptive

      • BobLim on 03/09/2021 - 11:21
        +2

        Parents with prams aren't disabled and have no 'special needs' as such - IMO they can find their own spot and walk just as far as anyone else. If they don't want the inconvenience of corralling their children, they shouldn't have any, or can leave them at home.

        Same with seniors or any other arbitrary designation - if they were sufficiently disabled to require special access provisions, they'd have a disabled permit.

        Who's to say someone's time and convenience is more valuable than another's in the absence of objective universal criteria? An able-bodied person on their own with a 20 minute lunch break to grab their groceries and get back to work arguably has more need for a close parking space than a parent taking their toddler out for a long day strolling around the shops. Especially silly at 9pm given they're not usually time-dependent

  • Ash-Say on 31/08/2021 - 14:05
    +21

    Disability doesn't have to visual so how police determined that she is not disabled and decided to fine her?

    • [Deactivated] on 31/08/2021 - 14:07
      -5

      This is true, but when confronted about it she told them that she wasn't.

      • ChocStrawberries on 31/08/2021 - 14:51
        +31

        Why did they confront her in the first place? They don't usually just randomly ask people to prove that the permit belongs to them.

        • pharkurnell on 31/08/2021 - 15:19
          +18

          She was dancing in the street…

        • Plankton on 31/08/2021 - 18:30
          +46

          Because she always does it and the disabled neighbour who needs the spot reported it.

        • Ryanek on 31/08/2021 - 21:17
          +3

          Disability stickers in NSW has a photo ID.

          • thanatos350 on 31/08/2021 - 21:40
            +10

            @Ryanek: You're right, but there are also reasons why someone without a disability would park a car with a permit in a disabled parking space. For example, if I was to drop a family member at the entrance to a medical centre and proceed to park in a disabled space to provide ease of access upon their return.

            A ranger approaching this person just doesn't seem likely to me.

            • MrFrugalSpend on 31/08/2021 - 22:04
              +1

              @thanatos350: Or indeed park to pickup a person with a disability that you are going inside to help to the car.

              • ThithLord on 01/09/2021 - 09:06
                +3

                @MrFrugalSpend: Yeah, so, if OP's wife was picking someone up that weren't able-bodied, she would have said so and the Officer would have carried on their merry way.

                • thanatos350 on 01/09/2021 - 10:39
                  +4

                  @ThithLord: For sure, but I just can't see this happening for the reason I stated.

                  I'm not complaining though, this is absolutely the best outcome. I don't think OP's wife truly appreciated how essential accessible parking is to the people who need it.

                  Popping in to your house for 5 minutes doesn't sound all that significant, but it could mean that a support worker would have to spend time finding another spot or have to leave altogether.

                  Doesn't sound like much, but some people only have access to support for like 3 hours each week. Factor in the time it takes to enter and exit a car with something like a power wheelchair and the time it takes to even get where you're going and you can see that the 15 minutes it takes to find a spot is valuable (and surprisingly expensive) time wasted.

                  Edit: sorry for ranting, I know we are on the same side.

          • ChocStrawberries on 31/08/2021 - 22:35

            @Ryanek: I wish they did this in the ACT.

        • TilacVIP on 02/09/2021 - 15:14

          And you know that how???

          • ChocStrawberries on 02/09/2021 - 15:15

            @TilacVIP: Who is this question addressed to?

            • TilacVIP on 02/09/2021 - 15:17

              @ChocStrawberries: you, when you say "They don't usually just randomly ask people to prove that the permit belongs to them"

              Unless you are an officer and told you cant do that, how do you know the OP is not telling the truth ?

              • ChocStrawberries on 02/09/2021 - 15:23

                @TilacVIP: My use of the word "usually" is key in my sentence. I have a permit, as do a lot of people I know in various circles, and none of us has ever been randomly accosted by a person of authority (police, parking inspector, etc) and asked to prove that we're using our permits legitimately. Of course they CAN do this (I know of a few examples) but they don't USUALLY, which is what I said.

                They have to have a good reason to suspect the person wasn't the permit holder. Of course you always get the odd power trip happening, which could be the case here, but I, along with a lot of others here, suspect there's more to OP's story.

                Besides, in this case, the driver was doing the wrong thing, so even if it was a random query from a bored cop, so be it. She deserves what she got.

                • TilacVIP on 02/09/2021 - 18:43

                  @ChocStrawberries: 100% agree she deserves what she got and then some… and perhaps you're right when u say "usually" but this has most probably become a regular occurrence at some places more often than others. It would not surprise me, that they are now watching this more closely, handing out fines, which most of the public would cheer on!!

                  • ChocStrawberries on 02/09/2021 - 19:56

                    @TilacVIP: I know I definitely would!! ;)

                    I'd like to think there are some places where this scummy behaviour is policed properly.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 31/08/2021 - 16:20
        +5

        Epic first post. I'm not helping simply because you've just revealed there's more to the story that you have withheld from us.

    • terrys on 01/09/2021 - 11:06

      The number on the permit is linked to enough identification to identify the lad who hops out of his bright yellow WRK with his Nonna's permit dangling from the mirror.

  • GG57 on 31/08/2021 - 14:07
    +38

    Short answer = NO

    Without putting too much thought in to it…

    Your fiance obviously did put some thought into it, to determine that the vehicle had the sticker and that she could park in a disabled parking zone. Most of us would probably never think of doing that.

    • bradl822 on 31/08/2021 - 18:32
      +5

      This exactly, saw the opportunity. Took it and got caught. Post the fine and don't do it again.

    • [Deactivated] on 31/08/2021 - 14:35
      -6

      Yeah… it's an expensive lesson

      • havebeerbelywillsumo on 31/08/2021 - 16:22
        +25

        "Yeah… it's an expensive but seemingly necessary lesson", fixed it for ya.

      • htc on 31/08/2021 - 20:48

        How much is the fine?

        • pegaxs on 31/08/2021 - 23:19

          In NSW, $581 and 1 demerit point.

          • htc on 01/09/2021 - 00:02

            @pegaxs: Fine can be paid, demerit can't be erased, also increased in insurance premium, ouch. Although if the fine did not occur, I am tempted to think op's GF will undertake the same adventure again.

          • 82norm on 01/09/2021 - 08:12

            @pegaxs: $642.00 and 1 demerit point.

            • pegaxs on 01/09/2021 - 12:55

              @82norm: I was just going off the Transport for NSW site that lists fines and demerits (That being said, it is valid from 1/7/2020, so it is entirely possible that they have had a price rise on 1/7/2021)

              Either way, it certainly isn't a cheap fine.

          • cydia9k on 02/09/2021 - 22:36

            @pegaxs: Sounds fit for the offence, won't be doing that again

      • gimli on 01/09/2021 - 22:30
        +2

        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/10777101/redir

        common theme with OP.
        If you can get away with it its OK to be a dick.

        • SF3 on 01/09/2021 - 23:26

          It’s high time that, both OP and fiancé are just as guilt! Case closed!

  • Kaz0551 on 31/08/2021 - 14:41
    +4

    Unless your friend was parked there to pick up the disabled person… that would be your only chance

    • ChocStrawberries on 31/08/2021 - 14:45
      +4

      And the cop would wait until the disabled person appeared.

  • Fredfloresjr on 31/08/2021 - 14:42
    +11

    Very inconsiderate. Imagine someone who is legitimate to use that and unable because your fiance who is able parked there. I drive our company car most of the time with disability permit and I never parked on spot if my client is not with me. I know how difficult for someone with disability to actually go out and in the car.

  • ChocStrawberries on 31/08/2021 - 14:44
    +86

    As a disabled person, I can't tell you how angry this makes me. Your fiance knew that she was illegally parking when she was doing it, so what on earth makes her think she should be given special treatment when she got caught? These spots are meant for people who need them, not just because she has the permit in the window.

    I'm glad she got fined - the amount of times I've tried to find a spot, only to see them filled with cars with no permits…too many to count. It's hard enough trying to get things done without full mobility, we don't need selfish people using what they're not entitled to.

    My disability isn't always obvious, and I'm only in my early 40s, so I often get dirty looks from people (usually oldies!) for using disabled spots. But I've never had a cop just wander over and ask if it's mine! They'd have to have their reasons to suspect it's not hers. This story sounds a bit suss.

    • shulks on 01/09/2021 - 10:15
      +2

      do you know what is the rule for using a disability space to pick up the person with a disability? They are not in the car when parking but they will be when leaving

      • ChocStrawberries on 01/09/2021 - 10:23
        +8

        My husband does this all the time, as well as waiting in the car for me at the doctor, etc. That's perfectly allowed, as long as you're prepared to have the policeman (or parking inspector, etc) wait with you for the disabled person to return to the car, or call the disabled person to speak to them. They need to be able to prove that the permit is being used correctly. I've never had anyone of authority question my permit, neither has my husband while he's been waiting for me, but I know people who have.

        Rules for each state will be online if you want full details.

    • thanatos350 on 01/09/2021 - 10:50
      +4

      Yeah, totally. Something isn't right here.

      OP's wife has likely done this regularly enough for the same officer to have seen her more than once and probably kept an eye on it (or someone who needs it/isn't a bastard has tipped the officer).

    • juki on 02/09/2021 - 15:19

      i'm not disabled and it irritates me also to see people park in disable spots with no permit, especially since most of the times its just to be closer to the door as other vacant spots are available not far away.

      is there a number you can call or email a pic to? ( i know i need a better hobby)

    • iNeed2Pee on 31/08/2021 - 14:59
      +2

      Look at them hold their phones recording the cops like as if they are scientologists. (profanity).

      • terrys on 01/09/2021 - 11:15

        I'm amused that those on a right-to-die march are worried about a small risk of concussion.

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